---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 01/24/07: 43 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:15 AM - Kolb SnowStar (Scott Perkins) 2. 04:01 AM - Re: sports pilot (tc1917) 3. 04:07 AM - Re: Kolb SnowStar (ron wehba) 4. 04:27 AM - Re: Sport Pilot (DANIEL WALTER) 5. 04:43 AM - Re: Kolb glider (Jack B. Hart) 6. 06:09 AM - Re: Kolb glider (N27SB@aol.com) 7. 06:22 AM - Re: Re: sports pilot (Richard Girard) 8. 06:32 AM - The debate over Kolb glide () 9. 07:52 AM - Re: Kolb glider (Jack B. Hart) 10. 08:15 AM - Slips (Richard Girard) 11. 08:17 AM - Kolb SnowStar (Scott Perkins) 12. 08:18 AM - Re: Kolb glider (knowvne@aol.com) 13. 08:26 AM - Re: Re: sports pilot (Larry Cottrell) 14. 08:35 AM - Re: Slips (knowvne@aol.com) 15. 08:53 AM - Flame outs (pat ladd) 16. 09:05 AM - Re: Flame outs (knowvne@aol.com) 17. 09:06 AM - Re: La Jolla/glider port (Gherkins Tim-rp3420) 18. 09:15 AM - that old video (pat ladd) 19. 09:18 AM - Re: Pilot's name in Utah accident (pat ladd) 20. 09:30 AM - Re: that old video (John Hauck) 21. 09:54 AM - Re: Kolb glider (Dana Hague) 22. 10:39 AM - Re: Kolb glider (JetPilot) 23. 10:42 AM - Re: Kolb glider (JetPilot) 24. 12:07 PM - Re: that old video (pat ladd) 25. 12:30 PM - Re: that old video (John Hauck) 26. 12:35 PM - Re: Pat's CA trip (Bob Noyer) 27. 01:35 PM - Re: Re: Kolb glider (flykolb) 28. 02:24 PM - Engine outs (Jim Dunn) 29. 03:14 PM - panel (Paul Petty) 30. 03:24 PM - Re: Kolb glider (Larry Bourne) 31. 03:25 PM - Re: Engine outs (Mike Welch) 32. 03:44 PM - Re: Glider time (ElleryWeld@aol.com) 33. 04:07 PM - Re: Kolb glider (planecrazzzy) 34. 04:26 PM - Re: Engine outs (flykolb) 35. 05:14 PM - Kolb History (John Hauck) 36. 05:31 PM - Re: FLAME OUTS (Russ Kinne) 37. 06:24 PM - Re: Kolb glider (JetPilot) 38. 07:07 PM - Re: Re: Kolb glider (Larry Cottrell) 39. 07:36 PM - Re: Kolb History (Malcolmbru@aol.com) 40. 07:47 PM - Re: Kolb History (John Hauck) 41. 07:48 PM - Dave Kulp (Larry Bourne) 42. 08:09 PM - Re: Re: Kolb glider (Denny Rowe) 43. 08:45 PM - Re: Re: Kolb glider (HShack@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:15:58 AM PST US From: Scott Perkins <2scott@bellsouth.net> Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb SnowStar Jim sent some photos of his plane in the snow that are simply incredible (which I have uploaded to the Ultrastar Photo archives) use the below link to Kolb Ultrastar photos and scroll down to Jim's "SnowStar" photos. You wont be sorry ! Just amazing ! Thanks for sharing Jim PS. if someone wants to take all these pics and turn into a thumbnail photo gallery, be my guest... ///////////////////////////////////////////// Subject: [KolbUltrastar] COLD From: "JIm" Hi guys. Jim here I did my first ski landings today It was 18 deg but it was worth it not much snow 3 inches but a great experence and awesome flying i guess im im a flying nut lol ----------------------- KOLB ULTRASTAR Photos Link http://vula2.org/images/land_planes/Kolb-Ultrastar/ .. KOLB FLYER photos Link http://vula2.org/images/land_planes/Kolb-Flyer/ ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:01:20 AM PST US From: "tc1917" Subject: Kolb-List: Re: sports pilot To Larry Cottrell. You aint done yet. you dont have a tail wheel endorsement!! now you gotta go back to an instructor, take lessons on how to drag your butt around on a tail wheel and then have him endorse your logs and then go find another one who is qualified to test you and get HIS endorsement and then it is done. thats all there is to it. gads. they sure have made it easy for us, right. I took my check ride in a tail dragger and it is in my log so I am covered automatically. it doesn really say that in the rules (at least I cant find it) but it says you must furnish a ride that is what you want your license for. something like that. not the same words. my log says kolb slingshot and that should cover me. anybody have a different reading of this? ted cowan, alabama ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:07:22 AM PST US From: "ron wehba" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb SnowStar ok jim. now you done went and done it, you went and took my old plain plane and turned it into a career distroying machine, cause I don't know how you can stay out of it and go make a living."" GRINS" ronnie w in tx. the old owner of jims machine p.s. super great job jim,,, wish they would build these again.,cause I sure miss it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Perkins" <2scott@bellsouth.net> Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 4:21 AM Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb SnowStar > > Jim sent some photos of his plane in the snow that are simply incredible > (which I have uploaded to the Ultrastar Photo archives) > > use the below link to Kolb Ultrastar photos and scroll down to Jim's > "SnowStar" photos. You wont be sorry ! Just amazing ! > Thanks for sharing Jim > > PS. if someone wants to take all these pics and turn into a thumbnail > photo > gallery, be my guest... > > ///////////////////////////////////////////// > Subject: [KolbUltrastar] COLD > From: "JIm" > > Hi guys. > Jim here > > I did my first ski landings today It was 18 deg but it was worth it not > much snow 3 inches but a great experence and awesome flying i guess im > im a flying nut lol > ----------------------- > KOLB ULTRASTAR Photos Link > http://vula2.org/images/land_planes/Kolb-Ultrastar/ > . > KOLB FLYER photos Link > http://vula2.org/images/land_planes/Kolb-Flyer/ > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:27:07 AM PST US From: "DANIEL WALTER" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Sport Pilot Congratulations Larry, I know what you mean when you say, now you shall collapse, I worried way too much about the practical test and also took it on a bad weather day. Do Not Archive Dan Walter Ultrastar Palmyra Pa. ----- Original Message ----- From: Larry Cottrell To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 9:09 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Sport Pilot Well friends, a journey begun 9 years, 10 months and 17 days ago has finally come to an end. Or in the immortal words of our departed (hopefully) aerial scholar. "Seeks mons ago I culdent evn spel Spor Pile it and now I are one!" A promise that I made to the missus when I started talking about flying was that I would get a Pilots Certificate, is now fulfilled. Now, much sweat, stress and of course $money$ later I can relax and enjoy flying. I think that I have more than 270 hours as a UL Pilot, 20 hours dual instruction in a GA plane, so I shouldn't have had much concern. However I had to fly a Quad City Challenger whose only saving grace is that it lands like a kitten. The wind when we started was almost a full sock, but it was only about 6 degrees off my right wing. The plane to me has a real tendency to want to stick its tail in the front rather than following along behind as it should. If you didn't stay on top of it, the only way that you could get it back in line was full left rudder and aileron full right. Which still doesn't seem right, but it was what you had to do. With the wind like it was the poor stick was being moved around like it was part of a butter churn, but none of that showed on the outside and I am very pleased to report that both of us were very happy with the outcome of the flight. I normally do wheel landings in my Kolb at whatever altitude suits me, but very little of it more than 200 feet off the ground. I of course had to learn to do it properly from 1000 feet agl. I am used to landing in a restricted distance, but really in a totally non professional manner. So it was a bit of a shock to me that I actually had to pick a spot rather than a runway. :-) However today all my landings were no further than 50 feet from the spot. Now I shall collapse! Larry, Oregon , SPORT PILOT! do not archive ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:43:44 AM PST US From: "Jack B. Hart" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Kolb glider At 10:45 AM 1/23/07 -0800, you wrote: > >I sold my Quicksilver MX in Aug 2006 to buy a Kolb Firefly (which I got in >October). I expected the Firefly to glide better, but it's actually >worse. Jim The MX should glide better as it has more wing area. 156 to 117 square feet. Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:09:10 AM PST US From: N27SB@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb glider In a message dated 1/23/2007 10:18:59 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, possums@bellsouth.net writes: I think 8 to 1 glide is about right for mine at 50 mph. 20 mph over stall. Not so good with floats through. At least "lotus floats" I'm sure Steve's are better. But you can still gettum out of the trees with out too much damage. "The last Possum" ..........except for John H. of course. Greg finally sold his plane last weekend. Possum, just guessed at 8 to 1. It is probably less but it does not really matter cause in my area around Winter Haven it is mostly water down below. I just hold enough altitude between lakes. I see the ability to do a steep approach as an asset. steve ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:22:16 AM PST US From: "Richard Girard" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: sports pilot Ted, WIth my private ticket, it was a log book endorsement only, just like high performance aircraft, complex aircraft, or operating in Class Bravo airspace. There was no check ride. Rick On 1/24/07, tc1917 wrote: > > > To Larry Cottrell. You aint done yet. you dont have a tail wheel > endorsement!! now you gotta go back to an instructor, take lessons on how > to drag your butt around on a tail wheel and then have him endorse your > logs > and then go find another one who is qualified to test you and get HIS > endorsement and then it is done. thats all there is to it. gads. they > sure have made it easy for us, right. I took my check ride in a tail > dragger and it is in my log so I am covered automatically. it doesn > really > say that in the rules (at least I cant find it) but it says you must > furnish > a ride that is what you want your license for. something like that. not > the same words. my log says kolb slingshot and that should cover me. > anybody have a different reading of this? ted cowan, alabama > > -- Rick Girard "Ya'll drop on in" takes on a whole new meaning when you live at the airport. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:32:55 AM PST US From: Subject: Kolb-List: The debate over Kolb glide I watch these occasional blips on the List with some amusement, I must admit. How much does all the whoopin' and hollerin' really change anyone's mind or actions, I wonder? Still, this one seems unusually strange. I'm a simple guy, so it seems like the whole thing is simple: If you don't like the glide of a Kolb, fly something else. See ya in the air! (When it gets warmer anyway. brrrrr) -Ken Fackler Kolb Mark II / N722KM (pending inspection) Rochester MI do not archive ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:52:16 AM PST US From: "Jack B. Hart" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Kolb glider Kolbers, My retired airforce brother-in-law sent this one to me. http://jet-man.com/playervideo.swf?video=jetman2007.flv Jack B. Hart FF004 Wichester, IN ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:15:58 AM PST US From: "Richard Girard" Subject: Kolb-List: Slips Got out the 172 manuals just out of curiosity. For the N and P models in chapter 2, "Limitations", under Placards, Cessna tells you that a placard must be near the flap switch that says "Avoid slips with flaps extended". Same models, in chapter 4, "Normal Procedures", under cross wind landings, "If flap settings greater than 20 degrees are used in sideslips with full rudder deflection, some elevator oscillation may be felt at normal approach speeds. However, this does not effect the control of the airplane." I can't find my manual for the K model, narrower main gear, ten less HP, and flaps go to 40 degrees, and 100 lb. less MTOW than the N and P, so I can't quote it right now. I can tell you it comes out of the sky at about the same glide angle as the Space Shuttle when doing a forward slip with flaps 40. The rudder buffets a bit, and you can feel a pulsation in the yoke, but it slips to either side just fine. If you've ever read "The Lucky Bastard Club", sorry it's in a box somewhere and I can't remember the author's name right off, the author mentions that he asked his instructors why the Army didn't teach slips. The aircraft are too big and too heavy was the usual reply. At several places in the book he makes a point of describing the slip characteristics of the Stearman and the Cessna AT-50. Toward the end of the book he slyly lets you know that the Boeing B-17G slipped just fine, too. As for the Mk 3, it slips just fine, too. I sometimes wish for a bit more rudder area, but I suspect that may be more pilot than aircraft. Rick -- Rick Girard "Ya'll drop on in" takes on a whole new meaning when you live at the airport. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:17:37 AM PST US From: Scott Perkins <2scott@bellsouth.net> Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb SnowStar Jim sent some photos of his plane in the snow that are simply incredible (which I have uploaded to the Ultrastar Photo archives) use the below link to Kolb Ultrastar photos and scroll down to Jim's "SnowStar" photos. You wont be sorry ! Just amazing ! Thanks for sharing Jim PS. if someone wants to take all these pics and turn into a thumbnail photo gallery, be my guest... ///////////////////////////////////////////// Subject: [KolbUltrastar] COLD From: "JIm" Hi guys. Jim here I did my first ski landings today It was 18 deg but it was worth it not much snow (3 inches) but a great experence and awesome flying I guess im im a flying nut lol ----------------------- KOLB ULTRASTAR Photos Link http://vula2.org/images/land_planes/Kolb-Ultrastar/ .. KOLB FLYER photos Link http://vula2.org/images/land_planes/Kolb-Flyer/ ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:18:32 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb glider From: knowvne@aol.com Now strap a skateboard to his Gut and he may have something.... hahahahaha YOU FIRST... 8-) Mark Vaughn -----Original Message----- From: jbhart@onlyinternet.net To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 11:01 AM Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Kolb glider Kolbers, My retired airforce brother-in-law sent this one to me. http://jet-man.com/playervideo.swf?video=jetman2007.flv Jack B. Hart FF004 Wichester, IN ________________________________________________________________________ across the web, free AOL Mail and more. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:26:39 AM PST US From: "Larry Cottrell" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: sports pilot ----- Original Message ----- From: "tc1917" Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 4:59 AM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: sports pilot > > To Larry Cottrell. You aint done yet. you dont have a tail wheel > endorsement!! You are right, I do still have one thing to do, but it is only to get a Class D endorsement. Some time ago I bought a Experimental Mark III (N numbered) and coerced my CFI into taking a ride with me and giving me a tail wheel endorsement, so that I could fly it legally. He didn't want to do it, (He is a bit of a butt, and would not give me instruction in the Mark III. One of the reasons that I did not go ahead with the Private ticket) but he did. I was lucky in that the guy that I bought the Mark III from was a CFI as well. We flew it a bit and he reluctantly signed me off to fly it back home, a three hour flight, so my regular CFI really couldn't refuse. Even though I complained about flying the Challenger, by doing so I ended up with an endorsement for both less and more than the 87 knot LSA. I am hoping that I can pick up the Class D endorsement without having to fly a 172 again, since 17 hours of my dual instruction was in fact at a Class D airport that shares runways with one of the busiest Airforce operation areas around the Pacific Northwest. The next thing however will be to get the Firestar an airworthiness certificate. So the bull isn't totally done, just a bit shallower. Larry, Oregon do not archive ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:35:17 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Slips From: knowvne@aol.com Thanks Rick It must have been a Flap issue my instructor was concerned with.... This was 20 years ago that this happen.. As with most flying related things they get a little fresh paint over time 8-) Mark Vaughn -----Original Message----- From: jindoguy@gmail.com To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 11:15 AM Subject: Kolb-List: Slips Got out the 172 manuals just out of curiosity. For the N and P models in chapter 2, "Limitations", under Placards, Cessna tells you that a placard must be near the flap switch that says "Avoid slips with flaps extended". Same models, in chapter 4, "Normal Procedures", under cross wind landings, "If flap settings greater than 20 degrees are used in sideslips with full rudder deflection, some elevator oscillation may be felt at normal approach speeds. However, this does not effect the control of the airplane." I can't find my manual for the K model, narrower main gear, ten less HP, and flaps go to 40 degrees, and 100 lb. less MTOW than the N and P, so I can't quote it right now. I can tell you it comes out of the sky at about the same glide angle as the Space Shuttle when doing a forward slip with flaps 40. The rudder buffets a bit, and you can feel a pulsation in the yoke, but it slips to either side just fine. If you've ever read "The Lucky Bastard Club", sorry it's in a box somewhere and I can't remember the author's name right off, the author mentions that he asked his instructors why the Army didn't teach slips. The aircraft are too big and too heavy was the usual reply. At several places in the book he makes a point of describing the slip characteristics of the Stearman and the Cessna AT-50. Toward the end of the book he slyly lets you know that the Boeing B-17G slipped just fine, too. As for the Mk 3, it slips just fine, too. I sometimes wish for a bit more rudder area, but I suspect that may be more pilot than aircraft. Rick -- Rick Girard "Ya'll drop on in" takes on a whole new meaning when you live at the airport. ________________________________________________________________________ across the web, free AOL Mail and more. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:53:32 AM PST US From: "pat ladd" Subject: Kolb-List: Flame outs Hi, what are these `flame outs` that seem to have crept into the list recently. I thought a `flame out` was when a jet engine quit. Have some of you guys been taking the freedom the Experimental category gives you a bit far? Lets stick to `engine out` and leave the `flame outs` to the big boys. Cheers Pat ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:05:07 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Flame outs From: knowvne@aol.com PAT Don't all KOLBS fly with their engines out? 8-) Personally I prefer the term FLAME OUT when referring to a dead engine... But then given my Background, I'm use to flying with no FLAME at all... 8-) Sorry if I've confused the terms.. Mark Vaughn -----Original Message----- From: pj.ladd@btinternet.com To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 11:53 AM Subject: Kolb-List: Flame outs Hi, what are these `flame outs` that seem to have crept into the list recently. I thought a `flame out` was when a jet engine quit. Have some of you guys been taking the freedom the Experimental category gives you a bit far? Lets stick to `engine out` and leave the `flame outs` to the big boys. Cheers Pat ________________________________________________________________________ across the web, free AOL Mail and more. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:06:33 AM PST US Subject: RE: Kolb-List: La Jolla/glider port From: "Gherkins Tim-rp3420" George/Gang, I grew up in North San Diego county in a little town called Rancho Bernardo/Poway area during the 70's and 80's. Back then "Blacks Beach" was the nude bathing beach for the San Diego area. As a surfing youth, inexplicably the rip tides would suddenly and forcefully push us over to the Black Beach surf. I think I spent more time on the beach and surf then I did up on the cliffs flying RC gliders. George, one could appreciate the challenge mother nature there........I know I did......and I'm not talking about the surf, or soaring either. ;O) Tim FSII do not archive ________________________________ From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of GeoR38@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 4:03 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Pilot's name in Utah accident hey pat if you have the time, as I know you will have the urge,as a glider pilot, to go to La Jolla, just north of San Diego and go to the top of the cliff overlooking the Pacific ocean just over "Black beach". You will be amazed.... if it hasn't fallen into the ocean yet. To anyone who appreciates challenging mother nature ... successfully, that is, the soaring done there is phenomenal.... if it is still going on, does anyone know? George Randolph Firestar driver from the Villages in Fl ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:15:51 AM PST US From: "pat ladd" Subject: Kolb-List: that old video Get to post my tired old video again!>> Hi, enjoyed it again too. The clip is just over a minute, how high were you when the clip started? Switching off the engine is a little different from having it suddenly stop. Reaction time is different and of course you tend to switch off only when you are confident of reaching your strip. No searching round looking for a landing spot while your flying accuracy goes to hell. Thats what throws your height away. Great video Cheers Pat do not archive ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:18:08 AM PST US From: "pat ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Pilot's name in Utah accident go to La Jolla, >> Hi George, I shall be driving down from LA so I may well do that. Thanks for the tip. Cheers Pat do not archive ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 09:30:52 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: that old video No searching round looking for a | landing spot while your flying accuracy goes to hell. Thats what throws your | height away. Patrick: A good pilot always has the next best forced landing area in sight. If I may add, once a suitable forced landing area is selected, it is usually best not to change one's mind. We have some folks on this List that have experienced that mistake, me included. john h mkIII ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 09:54:58 AM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Kolb glider At 07:53 AM 1/24/2007, Jack B. Hart wrote: > >The MX should glide better as it has more wing area. 156 to 117 square feet. It's not really about wing area, but L/D (lift to drag ratio). The MX is very "draggy", with all the exposed tubes and cables. You need to dive it steeper to keep the speed up than you do with a cleaner airplane. -Dana -- -- But if we LEGALIZE it, we can't take your HOUSE! ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 10:39:00 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb glider From: "JetPilot" Possum, Those are amazing pictures.. I never heard about that. Im assuming you posted the story behond that, can you post a link to it ??? I dont think the MK III is anywhere near 10 to 1 glide. The Cessna 172 manual gives a glide ratio of 10.5 to one, and my MK III Xtra does not glide anywhere near as good as a 172 will. One day soon I will do a test to find the exact glide ratio, I am very curious about this. Compared to most spam can type airplanes, the Kolb has a very bad glide, offset by a very low touchdown speed and shot landing roll :) JetPilot -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=90148#90148 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 10:42:57 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb glider From: "JetPilot" [quote="kolbmark3"]"The Kolbs drop like a rock" - not really! Granted, it is not like a glider, but having experienced at least ten "engine outs" from as low as 300 feet to as high as 2000 feet, the Mark III does give you some time to land. But in any plane, even a GA, it is always a good idea (read life saver) to have a potential landing site picked out. Jim Mark III > [b] Jim, I am also interested in what would cause 10 engine outs ? Can you post some of the information on what caused them, and the kinds of places you land ? And most of all, what engine are you flying ! Im not trying to flame you here, I just think it would be really good information for the rest of us and very interesting stories about the landings ! JettPilot -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=90149#90149 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 12:07:03 PM PST US From: "pat ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: that old video good pilot always has the next best forced landing area in sight.>> Hi John, I agree absolutely, but it is a counsel of perfection, and its that few minutes when your attention wanders that bite you in the bum. Can any of us say with all honesty that we know where you will land if it goes quiet NOW 100% of the time.. Some of the stuff you fly over and some of the extensive woodland that some listers have produced pics. of are pretty short of choices. I agree also about not changing your mind although in my couple of `outs` I haven`t had time to channge my mind before I was on the ground. Cheers Pat do not archive ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 12:30:35 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: that old video | extensive woodland that some listers have produced pics. of are pretty short | of choices. Patrick: In those cases you mention above, I still take the best choice of what is available. Never give up until you finish crashing. john h mkIII ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 12:35:01 PM PST US From: Bob Noyer Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Pat's CA trip When you get that far down the coast, watch for signs to San Jose Institute of Technology. regards, Bob N. FireFly 070 Old Kolb http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/ronoy/ do not archive ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 01:35:07 PM PST US From: "flykolb" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb glider They were kind of in "clusters" - and not all were complete surprises. First one was with a 503 and I landed in a hay field, dodging bales of hay. The next tow were in the same field. After landing, I could not find the problem, tied the tail down, did an extended runup with no problem. Took off, was still climbing, when it quit again. Landed, inspected everything, replaced the fuel pump, did another extended runup, took off, engine quit. Trailered it home, replaced all fuel lines, cleaned the fuel tanks, new fuel pump. No more problems. What caused it? I am still not sure. Next time was after a A&P had replaced the points. Took off and on downwind it got real quiet. The key in the crankshaft sheared. Landed at my airport. Replaced key, no more problem. The other times were with a Rotax 532. I had taken off from a friend's field, climbed to 2000', leveled out, reduced power, engine quit. Landed at his field, did extended runup, climbed to 4000', everything ok. Flew back to my airport with a landing spot always in sight. No problem getting back. Then in trying to figure out what was wrong there followed a series of takeoffs and engine outs (just after clearing the end of the field but with enough altitude to do 180's). No real sign of seizure but A&P tore down engine, cleaned cylinders and pistons.Replaced the points with CDI, new radiator, rebuilt gearbox. No more problems. Now someone will flame me for taking off again after having a problem. Every time I had a long enough runway to land if the engine quit on takeoff and/or enough altitude to do a 180 and get back. In fact one time I had excess altitude to loose in order to make the runway. I may be slow but I'm not completely stupid nor do I have a death wish. I now know I won't panic when the engine goes quiet - but I do have a lot more experience with engine out landings than I really want! Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "JetPilot" Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 1:42 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb glider > > [quote="kolbmark3"]"The Kolbs drop like a rock" - not really! Granted, it is not like a glider, but having experienced at least ten "engine outs" from as low as 300 feet to as high as 2000 feet, the Mark III does give you some time to land. But in any plane, even a GA, it is always a good idea (read life saver) to have a potential landing site picked out. > > Jim > Mark III > > > [b] > > > Jim, > > I am also interested in what would cause 10 engine outs ? Can you post some of the information on what caused them, and the kinds of places you land ? And most of all, what engine are you flying ! Im not trying to flame you here, I just think it would be really good information for the rest of us and very interesting stories about the landings ! > > JettPilot > > -------- > "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=90149#90149 > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 02:24:05 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Engine outs From: "Jim Dunn" Being your own mechanic makes you a better pilot. The worse mechanic you are, the better the pilot you must be. Not much over a year ago I thought 2-strokes had valves (my son corrected me). It was quite a learning experience when I bought a disassembled 1982 Quicksilver MX with Cuyuna engine. I went through two major issues involving the points ignition and carburetor. The carb was the most problematic. Everything worked fine on the ground and during takeoff and climbout, then I would loose power 1 or 2 miles from the field. Every time I was able to nurse it back to my airport for a landing. The problem was the carb was rotated just slightly too far forward. During climbout it was near vertical and operating fine, but when I leveled off (1-2 miles from the field) it would rotate forward slightly (with the engine) and flood. This problem appeared intermittent and bothered me for a while until I committed to keep flying short hops around the airport until I figured it out. The point is, I could not duplicate this problem on the ground. I had to fly it multiple times over the airport to troubleshoot the problem. During testing, the engine could have quit at any time and I would not have had a problem landing safely. After I figured it out, it was really a joy to fly. Jim > Now someone will flame me for taking off again after having a problem. > Jim ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 03:14:59 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: panel From: "Paul Petty" Going in with the wireing and panel! http://groups.msn.com/AerialWorld/kolbra012.msnw?Page=7 -------- Paul Petty Kolbra #12 Ms Dixie painting and reassembly Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=90217#90217 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 03:24:06 PM PST US From: "Larry Bourne" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb glider When I took some lessons in an MX II in '95, the instructor told me to hold pattern altitude of 500 ft till I could see the numbers between my feet, (no floor in that thing) then pull back the throttle to about (I think) 1/4 or 1/3 power, watch the airspeed indicator (ball in tube type - can't remember the name) out of the corner of my eye and hold it at 40 mph, then flare just before hitting. He clamped his hand over mine on the stick to make sure I obeyed. It was spooky. We came down almost on the numbers, and the.........flare........almost wasn't. About (it seemed) 5 ft from the ground he pulled my hand back on the stick, we flared and hit. Not too hard, either, it were a perty good landing. I can't imagine anything with a worse glide ratio. Lar. Do not Archive. Larry Bourne Santa Fe, NM www.gogittum.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dana Hague" Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 9:54 AM Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Kolb glider > > At 07:53 AM 1/24/2007, Jack B. Hart wrote: >> >>The MX should glide better as it has more wing area. 156 to 117 square >>feet. > > It's not really about wing area, but L/D (lift to drag ratio). The MX is > very "draggy", with all the exposed tubes and cables. You need to dive it > steeper to keep the speed up than you do with a cleaner airplane. > > -Dana > -- > -- > But if we LEGALIZE it, we can't take your HOUSE! > > > ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 03:25:23 PM PST US From: "Mike Welch" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Engine outs Jim, A few of us (5 total, we took turns) were flying two Quicksiver MX2's to Arlington Airshow and experienced an identical engine problem on one of the engines, like you mentioned in paragraph one of your previous email. Let me know if you're interested in what we found..... Mike in Utah _________________________________________________________________ Valentines Day -- Shop for gifts that spell L-O-V-E at MSN Shopping http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctId=8323,ptnrid=37,ptnrdata=24095&tcode=wlmtagline ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 03:44:40 PM PST US From: ElleryWeld@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Glider time I would suggest installing a runway in the first field You seem to be landing there a lot hate to see anyone get hurt Ellery J/K do not archive ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 04:07:38 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb glider From: "planecrazzzy" Hey Big Lar, The "key" your talking about.... is 40 Mine will drop in fast at 40..... but if I shoot for 50 , she glides VERY good Gotta Fly... Mike in MN -------- .. .. .. .. .. Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=90234#90234 ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 04:26:11 PM PST US From: "flykolb" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Engine outs Mike, I'm interested! What did you find? Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Welch" Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 6:25 PM Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Engine outs > > > Jim, > A few of us (5 total, we took turns) were flying two Quicksiver MX2's to > Arlington Airshow and experienced an identical engine problem on one of the > engines, like you mentioned in paragraph one of your previous email. > Let me know if you're interested in what we found..... Mike > in Utah > > _________________________________________________________________ > Valentine's Day -- Shop for gifts that spell L-O-V-E at MSN Shopping > http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctId=8323,ptnrid=37,ptnrdata=24095&tcode=wlmtagline > > ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 05:14:09 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb History Hi Gang: Boy! The weather has been rotten at hauck's holler. Talk about cabin fever........... Maybe this will brighten things up a bit. Was going through the November 1999 copy of EAA Experimenter Magazine tonight and found a couple historical photos. One is the Kolb Company's Fire Fly at Sun and Fun 1999. This particular Sun and Fun was the transition flyin for old and new Kolb Aircraft. Here is where I met my new bosses at TNK, although I was flying for Old Kolb. The other photo is Old Kolb's Sling Shot. Can not remember what year that was. May have been Oshkosh 1998, or earlier. Anyhow, this was my first flight in the Sling Shot. Quite a bit of difference between it and all the other Kolb models I had flown up to that time. Took a little time to adjust to those little bitty lift struts and wings. Once I found out I would not fall out of the sky and the SS would fly much like all the others, I had a ball. Spring is coming, john h mkIII ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 05:31:01 PM PST US From: Russ Kinne Subject: Re: Kolb-List: FLAME OUTS About slips -- in my 170 I slipped a LOT. Placarded against it w/full flaps but I never could get the tail to stall; slips in any configuration were no problems, in some 2700 hrs. Interestingly, even with the big rudder of a 170 you ran out of rudder control first Russ K do not archive On Jan 23, 2007, at 9:59 PM, Larry Bourne wrote: > > I had most of my training and have done most of my flying in a > C-172, and, as I recall, they're fine in slips - but not with > flaps. I believe the flaps change the airflow characteristics to > where you can stall the tail while slipping at low speeds. On > short final, that's not a thing you need real > bad. Lar. > > Larry Bourne > Santa Fe, NM > www.gogittum.com > > ----- Original Message ----- From: > To: > Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 5:31 PM > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: FLAME OUTS > > >> >> Hi Ellery >> Do you know if it's an approved manuver for the firestar ? >> >> I use to slip in a flight schools 172 till I learned it wasn't >> rated for it...... 8-/ >> >> Mark Vaughn > > ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 06:24:08 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb glider From: "JetPilot" planecrazzzy wrote: > Hey Big Lar, > The "key" your talking about.... is 40 > > Mine will drop in fast at 40..... but if I shoot for 50 , she glides VERY good > > Gotta Fly... > Mike in MN Thats 2 reports of firestars that glide well... Im beginning to suspect that the Firestar has a much better glide ratio than the MK-III Xtra. Michael A. Bigelow -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=90269#90269 ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 07:07:45 PM PST US From: "Larry Cottrell" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb glider If we are taking a poll, mine glided a measured 6 miles with 4000 feet of elevation. I figured 8 to 1. This was without a motor turning. Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "JetPilot" Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 7:23 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb glider > > > planecrazzzy wrote: >> Hey Big Lar, >> The "key" your talking about.... is 40 >> >> Mine will drop in fast at 40..... but if I shoot for 50 , she glides >> VERY good >> >> Gotta Fly... >> Mike in MN > > > Thats 2 reports of firestars that glide well... > Im beginning to suspect that the Firestar has a much better glide ratio > than the MK-III Xtra. > > Michael A. Bigelow > > -------- > "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you > could have !!! > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=90269#90269 > > > ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 07:36:26 PM PST US From: Malcolmbru@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb History John do you remember the year the older guy that drove the pelican in the ditch on the East end of the runway? Have you ever met anyone that new him? I often wonder how his widow and son are dooing, I understand the volinteer that was with him is having a hard time geting over it malcolm ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 07:47:45 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb History From: "John Hauck" > John do you remember the year the older guy that drove the pelican in the ditch Hi Malcomb: No I don't know about them. Made an ID mistake on the red Sling Shot. That was Oshkosh 1999 and the Sling Shot belongs to Bruce Chesnut. Was just now looking at that photo and saw the 912 sitting on it. The old Kolb Sling Shot was powered with a 582. Xin loi! john h mkIII -------- John Hauck MKIII/912ULS hauck's holler, alabama Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=90292#90292 ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 07:48:08 PM PST US From: "Larry Bourne" Subject: Kolb-List: Dave Kulp Did you receive my email yesterday ?? Having intermittent problems with this thing. Lar. Do not Archive. Larry Bourne Santa Fe, NM www.gogittum.com ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 08:09:20 PM PST US From: "Denny Rowe" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb glider Same wing, less weight, narrower fuselage. Could have somthing to do with it. :-) Denny Rowe, Mk-3 PS: I have flown Quicksilver MXs and their glide performance is nowhere near any Kolb. Single surface wing, cables and tubes everywhere, no real enclosure, Come on Guys. ----- Original Message ----- From: "JetPilot" Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 9:23 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb glider > > > planecrazzzy wrote: >> Hey Big Lar, >> The "key" your talking about.... is 40 >> >> Mine will drop in fast at 40..... but if I shoot for 50 , she glides >> VERY good >> >> Gotta Fly... >> Mike in MN > > > Thats 2 reports of firestars that glide well... > Im beginning to suspect that the Firestar has a much better glide ratio > than the MK-III Xtra. > > Michael A. Bigelow > > -------- > "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you > could have !!! > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=90269#90269 > > > -- > 8:40 PM > > ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 08:45:08 PM PST US From: HShack@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb glider In a message dated 1/24/2007 9:24:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, orcabonita@hotmail.com writes: Thats 2 reports of firestars that glide well... Im beginning to suspect that the Firestar has a much better glide ratio than the MK-III Xtra. My FS II, which is about 725 gross, gave me a 6:1 glide ratio. Howard Shackleford FS II SC ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.