---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 02/03/07: 20 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:20 AM - Re: Re:float plans (Malcolmbru@aol.com) 2. 06:25 AM - Re: float plans (planecrazzzy) 3. 06:27 AM - Re: Mk 3 steel main gear legs (Denny Rowe) 4. 09:02 AM - Landing Gear (Marshall) 5. 11:29 AM - Re: Landing Gear (Richard Pike) 6. 12:02 PM - Re: Landing Gear (n27sb@aol.com) 7. 12:30 PM - heat (russ kinne) 8. 12:37 PM - Re: Landing Gear (Jack B. Hart) 9. 12:41 PM - Re: Landing Gear (John Hauck) 10. 12:46 PM - Re: heat (Dana Hague) 11. 12:58 PM - Re: heat (Larry Bourne) 12. 01:09 PM - Re: heat (John Hauck) 13. 01:11 PM - Re: Landing Gear (Dana Hague) 14. 01:44 PM - Re: Landing Gear (Eugene Zimmerman) 15. 02:16 PM - Re: Landing Gear (Dana Hague) 16. 02:30 PM - Re: Landing Gear (John Hauck) 17. 03:00 PM - Re: Landing Gear (Bob Noyer) 18. 03:38 PM - Re: Re: float plans (Malcolmbru@AOL.COM) 19. 04:32 PM - Re: float plans (planecrazzzy) 20. 07:01 PM - Re: Landing Gear (R. Hankins) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:20:38 AM PST US From: Malcolmbru@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re:float plans any body want a set of float plans??? they are not that expensive to build andthey are less than $500 each you can pay as you go . malcolm. michigan. old kolb flyer ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:25:57 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: float plans From: "planecrazzzy" Hi, What is the material used to build the floats ? Weight ? Gotta Fly... Mike & "Jaz" in MN .. .. .. .. [quote="Malcolmbru(at)aol.com"]any body want a set of float plans??? they are not that expensive to build andthey are less than $500 each you can pay as you go . malcolm. michigan. old kolb flyer > [b] -------- .. .. .. .. .. Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=92569#92569 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:27:39 AM PST US From: "Denny Rowe" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Mk 3 steel main gear legs Richard, E-mail me off list so I have your address and phone #, I am leaning toward buying your gear legs for spares but have to talk it over with my partner Jay first. Denny ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Girard To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 11:04 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Mk 3 steel main gear legs Had to dig out my receipt to get the answer to this one. Yes, I really don't like Azusa brakes, although that's what's on my plane now. Rick On 2/2/07, Denny Rowe wrote: Are these set up for Matco brakes? Denny Rowe ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Girard To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 7:36 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Mk 3 steel main gear legs Colder than a well digger's knee caps here, I woosed out last night, but got a picture today. Still in TNK tape and factory insert up to here lines. Rick On 2/1/07, Denny Rowe wrote: Are "these" ----- Original Message ----- From: Denny Rowe To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 2:50 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Mk 3 steel main gear legs Are this legs for a Mk-3 Classic? Do you still have them? Pic? Denny Rowe rowedenny@windstream.net ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Girard To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 11:44 AM Subject: Kolb-List: Mk 3 steel main gear legs When I was in the midst of main gear straightening caused by my horrible landing technique, I thought the way out was TNK's steel gear legs. Now that I am pretty happy with my landings, I know I'm not going to install them. $350 for the pair, plus shipping. Rick -- Rick Girard "Ya'll drop on in" takes on a whole new meaning when you live at the airport. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List"> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List href="http://forums.matronics.com"> http://forums.matronics.com -------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 1/26/2007 11:11 AM href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List"> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List href="http://forums.matronics.com"> http://forums.matronics.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 1/31/2007 3:16 PM http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List http://forums.matronics.com -- Rick Girard "Ya'll drop on in" takes on a whole new meaning when you live at the airport. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Date: 2/1/2007 2:28 PM http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List http://forums.matronics.com -- Rick Girard "Ya'll drop on in" takes on a whole new meaning when you live at the airport. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 2/2/2007 11:39 PM ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:02:26 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Landing Gear From: "Marshall" Hi Kolbers, Even thought I am working on a Firefly and trying to keep it legal, I think that the Grove aircraft landing gear system is worth a look for most aircraft applications. http://www.groveaircraft.com/index.html http://www.groveaircraft.com/landing_gear.html Also take a look at the http://www.zenithair.com/stolch701/7-design-gear.html spring landing drop test curiosity of http://www.zenithair.com/ (a great aircraft and design). Thank you, Marshall Watkins Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=92611#92611 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:29:47 AM PST US From: "Richard Pike" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Landing Gear I had the pleasure of being at Oshkosh and watching when Zenair first introduced the CH 701, it was making short field takeoffs and landings, and they did a max performance short field landing - the main gear spring attach brackets broke and the main gear leaf spring ripped loose and folded back, dumping the tail on the ground, and leaving the airplane sitting in the middle of the runway looking very forlorn. A bunch of Zenair guys promptly ran onto the field, picked it up and hustled it into immediate repairs before too many potential customers got a look at it. They had it flying again that afternoon, but the short field/quick stop landings were a lot less aggressive. So if you put a leaf spring gear on your Firefly, don't use just any old Zenair brackets you might have lying around... Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) do not archive PS - I have an old Zenair CH 701 radiator out in the hangar. Anyone wants it can have it for the cost of shipping. Beware - it is BRASS and weighs a ton. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marshall" Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 12:01 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Landing Gear > > Hi Kolbers, > > Even thought I am working on a Firefly and trying to keep it legal, I > think that the Grove aircraft landing gear system is worth a look for most > aircraft applications. http://www.groveaircraft.com/index.html > http://www.groveaircraft.com/landing_gear.html > > Also take a look at the > http://www.zenithair.com/stolch701/7-design-gear.html spring landing > drop test curiosity of http://www.zenithair.com/ (a great aircraft > and design). > > Thank you, Marshall Watkins > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=92611#92611 > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:02:10 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Landing Gear From: n27sb@aol.com A really nice wheel and brake system for the Firefly and other Kolbs is available from www.flyfbi.com It is an overlooked option that is better than anything I have seen. I don't need wheels or brakes so I have not tried it. Steve FF 007 on floats -----Original Message----- From: fireflyaircraft@att.net Sent: Sat, 3 Feb 2007 12:01 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Landing Gear Hi Kolbers, Even thought I am working on a Firefly and trying to keep it legal, I think that the Grove aircraft landing gear system is worth a look for most aircraft applications. http://www.groveaircraft.com/index.html http://www.groveaircraft.com/landing_gear.html Also take a look at the http://www.zenithair.com/stolch701/7-design-gear.html spring landing drop test curiosity of http://www.zenithair.com/ (a great aircraft and design). Thank you, Marshall Watkins Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=92611#92611 ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:30:42 PM PST US From: russ kinne Subject: Kolb-List: heat Kolbers I saw some recent posts about taking lumbar supports from car seats & installing them in a Kolb -- great idea for long flights. But I got to thinking -- many car seats now are HEATED by a 12-volt system. Now that's either luxurious, pampering, overkill, sensible, whatever -- but it would be easy to do & would feel SO good on a cold morning or night flight. There are tons of Subaru's around, & most any junkyard should have one or two. Others, like Volvo';s, may be harder to find. I can't see any dangers here. Worth a try? Russ Kinne ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:37:22 PM PST US From: "Jack B. Hart" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Landing Gear At 09:01 AM 2/3/07 -0800, you wrote: >Even thought I am working on a Firefly and trying to keep it legal, I think that the Grove aircraft landing gear system is worth a look for most aircraft applications. http://www.groveaircraft.com/index.html > http://www.groveaircraft.com/landing_gear.html > Marshall, If you are trying to save some weight, stay with the Kolb aluminum legs. I weighed one and it came out to 2 pounds 6.6 ounces. Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:41:37 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Landing Gear the Grove aircraft landing gear system is worth a look for most aircraft applications. http://www.groveaircraft.com/index.html Hi Marshall: Looked at a lot of different gear legs for Kolbs since 1984. Spring aluminum gear was one of them. However, there are cheaper and better ways to go. Aluminum can only be hardened to 7075 (correct me if I am wrong), ends up weighing a ton, and very expensive. I use tubular 4130 heat treated to 48 RC. Have been flying with it for 20 years and many thousand hours. Has been thoroughly proven through many thousands of landings. A lot of them not too purty. Some folks say aluminum is better because it will not tear up the fuselage during a hard landing. I have been able to tear up fuselage with aluminum as well as steel. If you hit hard enough you will probably bend the cage with either. Tubular steel is much lighter than the Grove gear. 25 to 35 lbs is heavy. I think, IIRC, when we built the steel gear for my mkIII, it was the same weight as the solid rod aluminum legs. For what it is worth, john h mkIII ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:46:51 PM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: heat At 03:27 PM 2/3/2007, russ kinne wrote: >...many car seats now are HEATED by a 12-volt system....it would be easy >to do & would feel SO good on a cold morning or >night flight.... How 'bout heated clothing (popular with the motorcycle crowd): http://www.gerbing.com/ Or, for the do it yourselfer: http://home.mebtel.net/~rbutterfield/Heat.html and http://www.shadowriders.org/faq/electricvests.html -Dana -- -- Wernher von Braun settled for a V-2 instead of a V-8. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:58:54 PM PST US From: "Larry Bourne" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: heat You'll want to do some careful measuring, Russ. When I was making that choice for Vamoose, I HAD to have this really nice racing dune buggy seat, with full suspension and the whole 9 yards. So I bought it - something like $300.00 or more, brought it home.......and it was too big. Could NOT make that thing fit, no matter what I did. And the seller didn't want to refund my money. Had a heck of a time with him, but finally did work it out. Lar. Do not Archive. Larry Bourne Santa Fe, NM www.gogittum.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "russ kinne" Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 12:27 PM Subject: Kolb-List: heat > > Kolbers > I saw some recent posts about taking lumbar supports from car seats & > installing them in a Kolb -- great idea for long flights. But I got to > thinking -- many car seats now are HEATED by a 12-volt system. Now that's > either luxurious, pampering, overkill, sensible, whatever -- but it would > be easy to do & would feel SO good on a cold morning or night flight. > There are tons of Subaru's around, & most any junkyard should have one or > two. Others, like Volvo';s, may be harder to find. I can't see any > dangers here. > Worth a try? > Russ Kinne > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:09:32 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: heat | | -Dana | Dana: I have been using a Chilli Vest, 12VDC, digital electronic thermostat, water proof, since 2000. Made 2.5 flight to the Arctic with it. Works great on the 912ULS electrical system. Keeps me nice and warm without all the bulky clothing I wore on previous Arctic trips. Available at Sargeants Cycle Parts: http://www.sargentcycle.com/chillivest.htm john h mkIII ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:11:27 PM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Landing Gear At 03:34 PM 2/3/2007, John Hauck wrote: > >...Aluminum can only be hardened to 7075 (correct me if I am >wrong), ends up weighing a ton, and very expensive... 7075 isn't a hardness level, it's an alloy. The hardness spec is a dash number, e.g. 7075-T6. I don't have the numbers handy but 7075 (at any heat treat level) is quite strong, nearly as strong as unhardened 4130, but it's susceptible to stress corrosion cracking (cracks start around holes in stressed areas, or from scratches or nicks). Aluminum has a better strength to weight ratio than steel, but it's more difficult to weld and repair (some alloys can't be welded at all). >Some folks say aluminum is better because it will not tear up the >fuselage during a hard landing. I have been able to tear up fuselage >with aluminum as well as steel. If you hit hard enough you will >probably bend the cage with either. Exactly. The ideal gear, I guess, is just slightly weaker than the fuselage attachments. One advantage (which could also be a disadvantage depending on the situation) aluminum does have is that the modulus of elasticity is 1/3 that of steel... which means that all other things being equal it'll flex farther than steel of comparable strength before breaking (or staying bent). -Dana -- -- Wernher von Braun settled for a V-2 instead of a V-8. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 01:44:16 PM PST US From: Eugene Zimmerman Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Landing Gear Wouldn't "1/3 that of steel" mean exactly opposite of what you said? The modulus of elasticity of steel is greater than aluminum? , On Feb 3, 2007, at 4:07 PM, Dana Hague wrote: > One advantage (which could also be a disadvantage depending on the > situation) aluminum does have is that the modulus of elasticity is > 1/3 that of steel... which means that all other things being equal > it'll flex farther than steel of comparable strength before > breaking (or staying bent). ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:16:19 PM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Landing Gear That's what I said... aluminum's modulus is 1/3 that of steel; steel has 3X the modulus of aluminum... thus steel takes 3X the force to bend the same amount (until the elastic limit is reached)... or put the other way, for the same force aluminum will bend 3X as much. If the breaking force is the same, that means the aluminum will bend 3X as much before breaking. -Dana -Dana At 04:43 PM 2/3/2007, Eugene Zimmerman wrote: >Wouldn't "1/3 that of steel" mean exactly opposite of what you said? >The modulus of elasticity of steel is greater than aluminum? > , >On Feb 3, 2007, at 4:07 PM, Dana Hague wrote: > >>One advantage (which could also be a disadvantage depending on the >>situation) aluminum does have is that the modulus of elasticity is >>1/3 that of steel... which means that all other things being equal >>it'll flex farther than steel of comparable strength before >>breaking (or staying bent). do not archive -- -- Wernher von Braun settled for a V-2 instead of a V-8. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 02:30:31 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Landing Gear steel has 3X | the modulus of aluminum... | | -Dana Sorry. You guys are way over my head. I don't know one modulus from the other, but my gear works great. Been there and done that. I do know that 4130 makes a hell of a better spring than 7075-T6. We adjust the size, shape, and hardness to get the spring we want. I can do that with 4130, but not 7075. Steel springs are much more common than aluminum springs. Wonder how come? john h mkIII ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 03:00:33 PM PST US From: Bob Noyer Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Landing Gear There once was a modulus named Young From whom all landing gear sprung. But one bad day, While alighting in hay, The Kolb legs turned softly to dung. regards, Bob N. FireFly 070 Old Kolb http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/ronoy/ DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 03:38:35 PM PST US From: Malcolmbru@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: float plans I have been building the Zenair 950 LB float the plans are not in publication any longer. I got mine from a kit fix flyer in Texas it includes 550,750 950 and 1150 it is a nice float, all allouminom.I sent a set to another kolber this week. he is a machinist and may start building a set of retracts systems from the plans. if anyone want's to take a set of plans and clean them up that would be great. they need a lot of work to bring them up to a modern standerd most mesurments are in metric malcolm michigan ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 04:32:56 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: float plans From: "planecrazzzy" Hi, So the plans aren't just Floats , their Amphibious right ? Do you have to "snail mail" or can you e-mail ...? I'd like to look at the plans.... Gotta Fly... Mike & "Jaz" in MN -------- .. .. .. .. .. Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=92722#92722 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 07:01:54 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Landing Gear From: "R. Hankins" Steve et al, I have looked at the FBI Black Max brakes online, but haven't talked to anyone who has used them or even seen them first hand. Have you got a chance to look at them in person? They sound great and the price is right. I down-loaded their installation manual and like the well thought out instructions and photos. Has anyone on the list seen a set of these? AC Spruce is listing them on their web site. Brakeless in Oregon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=92754#92754 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.