Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:37 AM - Re: Whats in a name? (Thom Riddle)
2. 05:58 AM - Re: Gas Tank Study (Rex Rodebush)
3. 09:52 AM - Re: Re: Whats in a name? (Bob Noyer)
4. 10:15 AM - Re: Re: Whats in a name? (Dana Hague)
5. 11:55 AM - Re: Re: Whats in a name? (John Hauck)
6. 02:23 PM - Re: Rotax Class (Roger Lee)
7. 02:25 PM - Re: Rotax Class (Roger Lee)
8. 02:34 PM - Re: Re: Whats in a name? (Dana Hague)
9. 03:00 PM - Re: Re: Rotax Class (Richard Pike)
10. 04:01 PM - Re: Re: Whats in a name? (knowvne@aol.com)
11. 04:27 PM - Re: Re: Rotax Class (knowvne@aol.com)
12. 04:38 PM - Re: Re: Rotax Class (John Hauck)
13. 05:36 PM - Kolb Shadow (Bill Vincent)
14. 05:40 PM - John Hauck landing (Bill Vincent)
15. 06:13 PM - Re: Re: Whats in a name? (Dana Hague)
16. 06:38 PM - Re: Re: Whats in a name? (John Hauck)
17. 07:18 PM - Re: Re: Whats in a name? (Richard Pike)
18. 07:39 PM - Re: Re: Whats in a name? (Dana Hague)
19. 07:39 PM - Re: Re: PPG (DAquaNut@aol.com)
20. 07:47 PM - Re: Rotax Class (Roger Lee)
21. 07:49 PM - Re: Rotax Class (Roger Lee)
22. 08:31 PM - Re: Re: Rotax Class (John Hauck)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Whats in a name? |
Oh Hi Oh Ralph,
I like your moniker assignments. Since I was assigned Slide-Rule by your O-High-ness,
I'll tell you that I still have the original slide rule that my father
used when he was a student at Auburn University (that's in Ala-dam-bama) from
which he graduated in 1929.
Thom in Buffalo
aka Slide-Rule
do not archive
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| Subject: | Re: Gas Tank Study |
Paul,
I will be ordering a 912S this Summer. I hadn't really thought about the fabric
/ torque tubes but John's suggestion seems good. I'll figure out the cooler,
etc. later.
I attached some extra pictures of the tank and mounts. The cage is on its side
for the final welding. I used 5052-H32 .06" thick for the tank.
Rex
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| Subject: | Re: Whats in a name? |
Have my Eugene Dietzen Microglide Decimal Trig Type Log Log SN
048057 from '41...MADE IN U.S.A. Also some made while teaching class
in slide rule construction...one has five scales: top, slider,
center, another slider, bottom scale.
regards,
Bob N. FireFly 070 Old Kolb
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/ronoy/
do not rchive
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| Subject: | Re: Whats in a name? |
At 12:51 PM 2/19/2007, Bob Noyer wrote:
>
>Have my Eugene Dietzen Microglide Decimal Trig Type Log Log SN
>048057 from '41...
Well, I'm a little younger I guess... alas, my Dad's good slide rule (c.
1948) was stolen from our car along with just about everything else my
older sister was bringing back to college around 1970... so I have his
"less good" one, and a newer plastic one. When I was in 8th grade (1972)
it was the very last year that slide rule was taught, next year's class was
required to buy those newfangled electronic calculators. 'Course the
circular slide rule E6B was still in use when I learned to fly a couple of
years later...
-Dana
--
--
Atheists are people who have no invisible means of support.
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| Subject: | Re: Whats in a name? |
'Course the
| circular slide rule E6B was still in use when I learned to fly a
couple of
| years later...
|
| -Dana
Dana:
You mean they replaced the E6B???
jhn h
mkIII
PS: You guys see any sense in archiving chit chat??? If so, maybe
important chit chat??? No chit!
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 6
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Hi All,
>From Eric Tucker at Kodiak/Rotax.
The 912 came out in 1989 and the certified S came out in 1990. The original TBO
was 600 hrs. Rotax currently produces 5k 912's a year. With a little more data
they might go to 1800 hr. TBO. Business is booming worldwide for the Rotax.
I recommend everyone that works on a Rotax engine take the class. Lots of good
info.
1. If you built or changed your prop then you should get a Dynamic prop balance
for the longevity of your gearbox.
2. The engine was set up to run better temps. and vibration smoothness at 4800-5200
rpm. 4700 and below usually run a little more temp, but more vibration, whether
you feel it or not. I have heard of some guys that want to run the engine
at 5500 rpm all the time, well yes it can, but you will pay more in excessive
wear later.
3. Mufflers should have 5 liters volume for your Rotax 912uls/s to have a tuned
exhaust. This is stated in the instalation manual.
4. Your 912 was set up to fly for up to 30 minutes at 75% power if you lose oil
pressure. Yes, better to land, but not at the expense of crashing. Yes the engine
will need some work if you go for the 75% at 30 min. Remember your cylinders
are not water cooled, only the heads.
5. Water temp gauges are not needed if you are keeping you CHT's in limits.
6. Use only mineral spirits to clean you aluminum engine if it becomes necessary.
If you use some types of cleaners and note that there are color changes then
this is undesirable.
7. clean your carbs with only mineral spirits. No carb cleaners. They are too harsh.
8. No automotive wire connectors are supposed to be used.
9. Rotax would like to see an oil sample sent in to analysis lab once a year at
annual.
10. Shock cooling a Rotax is not an issue while flying. Lots of data to support
this.
Just some tips and issues discussed at the Rotax class. If you haven't been, or
you heard something from a friend or other mechanic then it is just hearsay or
some other logic or experience from a different engine type.
There have been quite a few items that have changed over the years and some of
the old ideas do not apply to todays engines v.s. the 10-15 year old 912's.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p'113#96113
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Hi Guys,
Myth
Bottom line for the ethanol/methanol is don't worry about it. It might rob a little
power, but will not hurt a Rotax engine. Not all engines can say that, but
Rotax can. The factory did test up to 5% because of places around the world
that use it and that is why you see it printed in their manual, but just didn't
test more. They can not test all variables from users from around the world.
There are some places in the world that add up to 15-20%. There is nothing in
the Rotax engine that comes in contact with fuel that this will bother. This
comes fro Eric Tucker from the Rotax/Kodiak. He is the go to man for all engine
issues of any kind including accident investigation, trouble shooting, maint.
instruction and tech support. He has seen it all, more or less.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p'114#96114
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Whats in a name? |
At 02:55 PM 2/19/2007, John Hauck wrote:
>
>You mean they replaced the E6B???
Oh, I dunno, it's been awhile since I actually plotted a cross country...
my E6B still works... just figured everything had gone electronic by now.
FWIW, I pulled my E6B out a couple of years ago to try to figure out wind
angles for a powered paraglider... but the scales don't go that slow, had
to figure it out the long way.
-Dana
do not archive
--
--
If vegetarians eat vegetables,..beware of humanitarians!
Message 9
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Not all Rotax engines used in Kolbs are 4 strokes, yet based on this post
and your previous post, you make everything sound all inclusive, but only
refer to the 912, or the 912S, so could you clarify things a bit?
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1@yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 5:24 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Rotax Class
>
> Hi Guys,
>
> Myth
>
> Bottom line for the ethanol/methanol is don't worry about it. It might rob
> a little power, but will not hurt a Rotax engine. Not all engines can say
> that, but Rotax can. The factory did test up to 5% because of places
> around the world that use it and that is why you see it printed in their
> manual, but just didn't test more. They can not test all variables from
> users from around the world. There are some places in the world that add
> up to 15-20%. There is nothing in the Rotax engine that comes in contact
> with fuel that this will bother. This comes fro Eric Tucker from the
> Rotax/Kodiak. He is the go to man for all engine issues of any kind
> including accident investigation, trouble shooting, maint. instruction and
> tech support. He has seen it all, more or less.
>
> --------
> Roger Lee
> Tucson, Az.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p'114#96114
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Whats in a name? |
A powerered PG??
Dana Are you soft in the Grey Mattter? 8-)
I'd rather walk cross wind than trying to fly one of those things ..
8-) HAHAHAHAHA
Ive watched 3 Pilots bounce flying those things on a unstable windy
day...
KEEP IN MIND. It's not a parachute and even they will collapses from
time to time...
Cool STABLE days only or you asking for trouble...
Mark Vaughn 20 years in the soaring sports...
PS
Did you happen see the story on the news recently about the woman PG
pilot who
was sucked to 32,000 ft in a Q-Nim (AKA a HOOVER) ????? She
survived but her flying partner didn't ......
Another down side to flyng a PG is that they fly WAY too slow to excape
such dangers...
In my Hangglider I can hit 70mph sustaned and still maintain a 8:1
L/D...
I recall on one flight where my GPS read 4 mph and my control bar was
stuffed trying to excape
a big HOOVER that developed to my west Maybe 5 miles away....
My air speed was over 70 and this was at 3,000' agl ... I managed to
excape the HOOVER
but the shorts sure were messy when I landed hahahahahaha 8-)
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: d-m-hague@comcast.net
Sent: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 5:32 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Whats in a name?
At 02:55 PM 2/19/2007, John Hauck wrote:
>
>You mean they replaced the E6B???
Oh, I dunno, it's been awhile since I actually plotted a cross
country... my E6B still works... just figured everything had gone
electronic by now.
FWIW, I pulled my E6B out a couple of years ago to try to figure out
wind angles for a powered paraglider... but the scales don't go that
slow, had to figure it out the long way.
-Dana
do not archive
--
--
If vegetarians eat vegetables,..beware of humanitarians!
________________________________________________________________________
across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
=0
Message 11
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Richard
Wouldn't it be nice if Rotax saw the need for a smaller 4 stroke for
us Air heads....... 8-)
One that produced about 50 or 60 hp at half the weght of a 912 would
be nice... 8-)
Rotax already produces a ( 65 hp@7,000rpm) 4 stroke V-twin for Skidoo
called the 4TEC V800
I wonder if they've considered it for aircraft use??? 8-)
Mark Vaughn
-----Original Message-----
From: richard@bcchapel.org
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 5:59 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Rotax Class
Not all Rotax engines used in Kolbs are 4 strokes, yet based on this
post and your previous post, you make everything sound all inclusive,
but only refer to the 912, or the 912S, so could you clarify things a
bit?
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1@yahoo.com>
To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 5:24 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Rotax Class
>
> Hi Guys,
>
> Myth
>
> Bottom line for the ethanol/methanol is don't worry about it. It
might rob > a little power, but will not hurt a Rotax engine. Not all
engines can say > that, but Rotax can. The factory did test up to 5%
because of places > around the world that use it and that is why you
see it printed in their > manual, but just didn't test more. They can
not test all variables from > users from around the world. There are
some places in the world that add > up to 15-20%. There is nothing in
the Rotax engine that comes in contact > with fuel that this will
bother. This comes fro Eric Tucker from the > Rotax/Kodiak. He is the
go to man for all engine issues of any kind > including accident
investigation, trouble shooting, maint. instruction and > tech support.
He has seen it all, more or less.
>
> --------
> Roger Lee
> Tucson, Az.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p'114#96114
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
=0
Message 12
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Hi Roger:
Glad you got to go to 912 school. Paul Petty and I have had the
opportunity to attend three of Eric's courses so far.
| 1. If you built or changed your prop then you should get a Dynamic
prop balance for the longevity of your gearbox.
How come I have to get a dynamic prop balance if I fly a Warp Drive
that is balanced?
| 2. The engine was set up to run better temps. and vibration
smoothness at 4800-5200 rpm. 4700 and below usually run a little more
temp, but more vibration, whether you feel it or not.
During the last 13 years and 2,500+ hours flight time with 912uls and
912ul, I have discovered temps tend to drop rapidly, not increase,
below 5,000 rpm, especially the 912ul. I like flying 5000 to 5200 rpm
normal cruise. The 912uls generates much more heat than the 912ul
primarily because of increased compression ration and power output.
The 912uls also rapidly cools below 5000 rpm.
|
| 4. Your 912 was set up to fly for up to 30 minutes at 75% power if
you lose oil pressure. Yes, better to land, but not at the expense of
crashing. Yes the engine will need some work if you go for the 75% at
30 min. Remember your cylinders are not water cooled, only the heads.
Roger, check your notes on the above. I believe the engine will run
for quite some time without coolant, if you come back on the power and
keep the oil temp down. Engine oil does more cooling than water,
including the head. The cylinders are aircooled. Yes, if you lose a
water hose, keep on flying until you find a safe place to land.
Now, if you lose oil pressue in a 912 series engine, you just bought
yourself an engine. First thing to go is the crankshaft, and that
only takes a few seconds when the oil pressure is gone.
|
| Just some tips and issues discussed at the Rotax class. If you
haven't been, or you heard something from a friend or other mechanic
then it is just hearsay or some other logic or experience from a
different engine type.
Don't think it is hearsay if the friend or mechanic has attended the
912 School and taken copius notes.
Be sure and check you notes on the "loss of oil pressure and continued
flight" statement.
john h
mkIII
hauck's holler 912 mechanic 1st class.
Message 13
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Hi Gang
This picture which I took last summer is the shadow of my Kolb wing
touching my cement patio; this was a very difficult shot ..."but lots of
fun"
The winds were squirrelly and it took 4 tries to figure out exactly when
to press the shutter and figure out which way I was going to drift.
It may look like I am flying over the middle of town but in reality, I
am only one block from the woods.
Bill Vincent
FSII
Upper Peninsula of Michigan
Do Not Archive
Message 14
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| Subject: | John Hauck landing |
Hi Gang
I snapped this picture last summer at Oshkosh just after John passed
over the top of me and almost blew my hat off. :-)
Bill Vincent
FSII
Do Not Archive
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Whats in a name? |
Really, a PPG is just like any other aircraft... fly it within its
limitations (yes, including weather limitations) and you're OK. Don't fly
one on an unstable windy day! PPG *looks* insane, yes... but if turns out
the accident rate is comparable to GA (at least as far as fatalities go, I
admit there's more chance of a broken ankle or such). PPG isn't as
effortless as a good pilot can make it look, but it's WAY easier than a
beginner makes it look!
PPG was my path back to flying after finally selling my T-Craft 10 years
after I last flew it... and 5 years and 250 PPG hours later, I finally have
another plane (my Ultrastar, which I have yet to fly)... but I'm not giving
up PPG, either.
-Dana
P.S. Some of my PPG video gives a taste:
http://youtube.com/results?search_query=parafan&search=Search
At 07:00 PM 2/19/2007, knowvne@aol.com wrote:
>
>A powerered PG??
>
>Dana Are you soft in the Grey Mattter? 8-)
>
>I'd rather walk cross wind than trying to fly one of those things .. 8-)
>HAHAHAHAHA
>
>Ive watched 3 Pilots bounce flying those things on a unstable windy day...
>KEEP IN MIND. It's not a parachute and even they will collapses from time
>to time...
>
>Cool STABLE days only or you asking for trouble...
do not archive
--
--
Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug.
Message 16
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|
| Subject: | Re: Whats in a name? |
| -Dana
Hi Dana:
Did you know that Kolbs are not like any other aircraft? Kolbs are in
a class by themselves. They are special. They fly better, and
satisfy my every aviating desire. That is why I fly them.
When I see PPG, I think of Pittsburg Plate Glass.
PPG's are those little things at Sun and Fun and Oshkosh that eat up
the best flying time during the day, while the ULs and light planes
sit on the ground.
Guess if I didn't want to do anything but try and keep my suspension
lines straight and out of the prop, and make it nearly all the away
around the UL traffic pattern at Lakeland and OSH, I'd be chomping at
the bit to be a PPG guy.
The neatest thing about a Kolb is the amount of time, effort, and
money, we put into our projects. Then the years of great flying that
our little airplanes provide us for all that work we put into them.
My old bird is 15 years old now, but she flies like she did when she
was a baby. She takes me where I want to go. The airport perimeter
is only the beginning. She has carried me and my gear for as long as
48 days, all over CONUS, Canada, and Alaska. She has nothing in
common with a PPG, glass or parachute.
I, personally, have nothing against PPG's and powered parachutes,
other than eating up good flight time at the two biggest airshows in
the world. They just do not appeal to me and my style flying.
Kolbs do it!
john h
mkIII
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Whats in a name? |
Several years ago, I went to Sun N' Fun, spent the day looking around like
everyone else does. But I was really waiting for evening so I could watch
the light planes & U/L's fly. 5 PM, wandered down to Paradise City, and
nobody was flying but PPG's. Ran into Hauck and asked him if he knew what
the deal was. Told me that the Management had decided that nobody could fly
but PPG's.
Got in the car and left. Haven't been back. Would hate to drive all the way
down there and find out I had showed up on the wrong day again.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 9:37 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Whats in a name?
>
>
>
>
> Hi Dana:
<snip>
> I, personally, have nothing against PPG's and powered parachutes,
> other than eating up good flight time at the two biggest airshows in
> the world. They just do not appeal to me and my style flying.
>
> Kolbs do it!
>
> john h
> mkIII
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Whats in a name? |
At 09:37 PM 2/19/2007, John Hauck wrote:
>
>Did you know that Kolbs are not like any other aircraft? Kolbs are in
>a class by themselves...
Touche!
> PPG's are those little things at Sun and Fun and Oshkosh that eat up
>the best flying time during the day, while the ULs and light planes
>sit on the ground.
>
>Guess if I didn't want to do anything but try and keep my suspension
>lines straight and out of the prop, and make it nearly all the away
>around the UL traffic pattern at Lakeland and OSH, I'd be chomping at
>the bit to be a PPG guy...
Fortunately I have no desire to fly a PPG at Oshkosh, why bother when you
can take off from a baseball diamond?... they're more for buzzing around
the fields at treetop level, or a long cruise along the beach.
As I said I don't intend to quit PPG... but I'm sure I'll be flying the PPG
a lot less once I get my Kolb airborne... :)
-Dana
--
--
If cars had followed the same developmental path as computers, a Rolls
Royce would cost $100, get a million miles per gallon and explode once a
year, killing everyone inside.
Message 19
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In a message dated 2/19/2007 9:19:25 P.M. Central Standard Time,
richard@bcchapel.org writes:
Told me that the Management had decided that nobody could fly
but PPG's.
Got in the car and left. Haven't been back. Would hate to drive all the way
down there and find out I had showed up on the wrong day again.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Richard,
There are other reasons not to go back to S N F. I havent been back
since they made me pay for A whole week of camping when I only had time to stay
2 days. That was 5 or so years ago! There is only so much unfairness a man
can take, even when it comes to something he enjoys so much,
Ed ( FF#62 In Houston)
Do Not Archive
Message 20
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Hi John,
1. Prop balance, because all the components out there with the prop are not balanced
and nuts and bolts don't always weigh the same. It needs to be balanced
as a complete system, not just the prop. Everything from the mounting hub is not
balanced. Talking to Warp Drive they said there props are within a couple of
grams and add this to the other components and I think you might find it out
farther than you might think. The only way to tell for sure is to get it checked
with the proper tool.
2. The 912 standard and the 912 certified engine are pretty much the same engine.
A quote fron Eric Tucker. Just more documented paperwork for the certification
and one or two minor changes. There should be no difference in temps. unless
it is just because two engines are running differently (i.e. fuel, oil, climate,
ect.)
3. Sorry about the misprint on oil. It is in fact the coolant loss and the extended
flight time. I had been up since 3 a.m. that day. Just to tired and blurry
eyed.
4. Said nothing about anyone that had been to a Rotax class, only those who have
never been and have tried to use info gleened from other engines, rumors (lots
of those) or old time A&P's. The Rotax 912 is a different and better engine
than some. Some of the notes have changed.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p'200#96200
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Hi Richard,
Sorry I was only talking about the 912 engine series.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p'201#96201
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Hi Roger:
| 2. The 912 standard and the 912 certified engine are pretty much the
same engine.
Agree with the above. The only difference in the two is parts are
serial numbered and there is a paper trail to track the certified
engine. They also get a longer run in at the factory than the
uncertified version.
I believe the beauty of the 912 series engines are not that they are
different, but they are simple, 4 cyl flat opposed, overhead valve and
push rod actuated. Liquid and oil cooled heads, air cooled cyls.
When you get right down to it, they are great engines that perform
well. Are extremely reliable and will continue to operate well beyond
the current factory TBO.
We pulled the gear box off my last engine, 912ULS, at 1200+ hours.
There was not signs of wear on any component except one 50 cent thrust
washer. This is with a 72" Warp Drive Prop and no dynamic balancing.
So........if we can find a facility that will dynamically balance our
prop, we are going to really be in business.
When I sold my 912ULS it was producing the same power as it did the
first day I flew it.
When I spoke of operating temps in my previous post, I was not
comparing certified with uncertified. I was comparing 912UL and
912ULS. I flew my 912UL and 912ULS, both for more than 1200 hours
each. The 912UL does not produce nearly as much heat as the 912ULS.
Both engines will not maintain proper CHT and engine oil temps below
4800-5000 rpm. That is the reason to quickly come off cruise power to
bring the heat down should you lose coolant or water pump for some
reason.
I believe, with the increased use of the 912 series engines, as Eric
Tucker told you, the factory TBO will be increased. When I started
flying my first 912, TBO was 600 hours. The last engine was 1200.
Would love to see 1500 or 1800 or more next time.
Hope my new engine will give me the same performance and reliability
that the last two did.
john h
mkIII
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