Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 10:41 AM - Re: Winter high speed taxi (Arizona Man)
2. 11:36 AM - Re: 4 stroke versus 2 stroke engines - Which is more reliable? (JetPilot)
3. 11:48 AM - Re: prop hub extentions (JetPilot)
4. 11:52 AM - Re: Re: 4 stroke versus 2 stroke engines - Which is more reliable? (N27SB@aol.com)
5. 11:54 AM - Re: Re: 4 stroke versus 2 stroke engines - Which is more reliable? (David Lehman)
6. 11:54 AM - Re: prop hub extentions (JetPilot)
7. 11:57 AM - Re: prop hub extentions (JetPilot)
8. 12:01 PM - Re: Winter high speed taxi (JetPilot)
9. 01:07 PM - Re: Winter high speed taxi (jim)
10. 02:18 PM - Re: Re: Winter high speed taxi (Craig Nelson)
11. 03:02 PM - Re: Re: 4 stroke versus 2 stroke engines - Which is more reliable? (WhiskeyVictor36@AOL.COM)
12. 03:41 PM - Re: Re: 4 stroke versus 2 stroke engines - Which is more reliable? ()
13. 06:02 PM - Re: Re: 4 stroke versus 2 stroke engines - Which is more reliable? (Jack B. Hart)
14. 07:08 PM - Re: Re: 4 stroke versus 2 stroke engines - Which is more reliable? (N27SB@aol.com)
15. 08:19 PM - Re: 4 stroke versus 2 stroke engines - Which is more reliable? (Don G)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Winter high speed taxi |
Hi Craig, that airport looks familiar, I see it on the way ip to PHX. If you are
going to be out this weekend flying I would be interested in flying in to take
a look at your machine. Let me know.
Thanks
Ron (KFHU)
=================================
---- Craig Nelson <Craig.Nelson@heraeus.com> wrote:
============
<<DSC_0233.JPG>> We <<DSC_0195.JPG>> nt <<DSC_0199.JPG>> f
<<DSC_0206.JPG>> ly <<DSC_0221.JPG>> ing with a friedn in his R44 today
had a blast
Uncle craig
Don't archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: 4 stroke versus 2 stroke engines - Which is more reliable? |
The 4 stroke engine is MUCH more reliable than a 2 stroke. Every certified airplane
in the world uses 4 stroke, every car in the world uses 4 stroke. Even
most dirt bikes and motorcycles are now 4 stroke. There is a really good reason
for this.
Some people that have 2 stroke engines live in a state of denail and will try to
convince you otherwise with all sorts of different "reasons".
Bottom line is, when all is said and done, 2 stroke engines have many more fialures,
problems, etc. than 4 strokes.
Mike Bigelow
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=99677#99677
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: prop hub extentions |
Hi Paul,
What do you mean by sandwiched ? I am including another picture so you can get
a better look at it, if you see something that does not look right please let
me know !
I used cotter pins because they are easy, and I had the cotter pins. Is there
a reason not to use them on the extension ? The Kiev prop is VERY light, and
uses the smaller bolt pattern only. It performs well, is smooth, and quiet,
but the hub and blades are so light that is scares me. It would probably be
fine for a smaller 2 stroke engine, but it does not seem strong enough for a
912-s. The other problem is that if something came off the engine and went into
the prop, the Kiev would surely explode into a million peices :(
I have a Warp drive prop with the larger bolt pattern sitting in the box just waiting
to bolted on :) After seeing how light the Kiev prop is, the small
bolt pattern, and the small neck in the spacer, im just not willing to be the
test case for this setup....
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=99680#99680
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| Subject: | Re: 4 stroke versus 2 stroke engines - Which is more reliable? |
In a message dated 3/9/2007 2:37:38 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
orcabonita@hotmail.com writes:
Some people that have 2 stroke engines live in a state of denail and will
try to convince you otherwise with all sorts of different "reasons".
Bottom line is, when all is said and done, 2 stroke engines have many more
fialures, problems, etc. than 4 strokes.
Mike Bigelow
Hi Mike, have to disagree with ya here. "Reasons" Build me a 4 stroke
engine that produces 40 hp at or near the weight of a 2 stroke for my Legal UL
and I will be first in line.
Steve
FF #007 on Floats
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| Subject: | Re: 4 stroke versus 2 stroke engines - Which is more reliable? |
Wow, I'm impressed!... I've never met someone who was such an expert on
four-stroke vs. two-stroke engines...
I live in California and operate a two-stroke so I'm not in the State of
Denail, but I am interested in where you got your facts on "more fialures
(sic), problems, etc,"... Hearsay/rumors are one thing, cold hard facts are
another...
DVD
do not archive
On 3/9/07, JetPilot <orcabonita@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> The 4 stroke engine is MUCH more reliable than a 2 stroke. Every
> certified airplane in the world uses 4 stroke, every car in the world uses 4
> stroke. Even most dirt bikes and motorcycles are now 4 stroke. There is a
> really good reason for this.
>
> Some people that have 2 stroke engines live in a state of denail and will
> try to convince you otherwise with all sorts of different "reasons".
>
> Bottom line is, when all is said and done, 2 stroke engines have many more
> fialures, problems, etc. than 4 strokes.
>
> Mike Bigelow
>
> --------
> "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have
> !!!
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=99677#99677
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: prop hub extentions |
Pictures
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=99681#99681
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: prop hub extentions |
Here are a couple pictures..
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=99684#99684
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/ultralightmikekolbdetail12_20_2006_117_154.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/ultralightmikekolbdetail12_20_2006_112_114.jpg
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Winter high speed taxi |
Craig,
Aside from making your plane look bad ass cool, did the fairing give you much of
a speed increase ?
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=99686#99686
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Winter high speed taxi |
Craig, any idea how much faster the Kolb is with the fairing cf without the fairing?
thanks,
Jim
N. Idaho
--------
Jim
N. Idaho
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=99696#99696
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| Subject: | Re: Winter high speed taxi |
I do feel there is a performance increase. My airspeed indicator is
wrong. It shows 100mph. I have been indicating 87 mph with the gps level
flight at 4900 rpm. With adjustments to elevator trim. My friend with
his Robinson R 44 raven could not keep up with me when we were flying
last week. He asked me to slow down so he could catch up after take off
I had climbed about 3000 ft and was out of the traffic pattern 5 miles.
I still don't have the doors and windows. Before the cowling I could not
get over 70 mph. The prop was not pitched right ether. I can tell you
this thing climbs like a monkey. The yaw is something I am working on
now. John H if you read this I would like your phone number off list.
Uncle craig
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JetPilot
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 3:01 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Winter high speed taxi
Craig,
Aside from making your plane look bad ass cool, did the fairing give you
much of a speed increase ?
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you
could have !!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=99686#99686
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Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: 4 stroke versus 2 stroke engines - Which is more reliable? |
In a message dated 3/9/2007 2:37:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
orcabonita@hotmail.com writes:
Even most dirt bikes and motorcycles are now 4 stroke. There is a really
good reason for this.
For street bikes it was due to Environmental Regulations. The only
2-strokes on the street any more are the little 49 cc. scooters, or antiques.
For off road use and MX racing, the 2-stroke still provides the best power
to weight ratio, but the 4-strokes are gaining in popularity.
Bill Varnes
Original Kolb FireStar now - but long ago I was a motorcycle man.
Audubon NJ
Do Not Archive
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Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: 4 stroke versus 2 stroke engines - Which is more reliable? |
David Lehman wrote:
>>I am interested in where you got your facts on "more fialures (sic),
problems, etc"
>>Hearsay/rumors are one thing, cold hard facts are another.
Well said, sir, well said! Alas, in my life I've found that those who
are willing to spout such assertions are also unwilling to change their
minds to operate on a more rational basis. In other words, you're
probably "flattening your own forehead" when you try and get them to
cite (let alone produce) verifiable evidence. As the bard said, "What
fools these mortals be!"
But it is nice to see that critical, rational,. data-based thinking is
still alive out there! Good on you.
-Ken Fackler
Kolb Mark II / N722KM
Rochester MI
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Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: 4 stroke versus 2 stroke engines - Which is more |
reliable?
At 11:36 AM 3/9/07 -0800, you wrote:
..................................................
>Bottom line is, when all is said and done, 2 stroke engines have many more fialures,
problems, etc. than 4 strokes.
>
Mike
The two stroke engine can be very reliable. Many of the natural gas pumping
stations are/were powered by two stroke engines. Many of the small
municipal electrical power generation power plants were powered by two
stroke diesel engines. And currently, many of the largest container ships
are powered by two stroke diesels that are about the most efficient engines
ever designed.
I have had two two stroke engine failures and neither could be blamed on the
engine. At the time I was operating the engines outside the manufacturers
specified limits. The first was caused by carbon build up under the rings.
I did not decarbon as Rotax specified. The second was caused by overheating
the engine due to a coolant hose clamp failure.
>From the design stand point a two stroke is more reliable than a four stroke
in that there are fewer engine parts to fail. The flip side is that one has
to adjust or learn how to operate a two stroke within operational limits
that would be difficult for a four stroke to attain and produce the same
horsepower.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
do not archive
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: 4 stroke versus 2 stroke engines - Which is more reliable? |
In a message dated 3/9/2007 6:03:04 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com writes:
For street bikes it was due to Environmental Regulations. The only
2-strokes on the street any more are the little 49 cc. scooters, or antiques.
For off road use and MX racing, the 2-stroke still provides the best power
to weight ratio, but the 4-strokes are gaining in popularity.
Bill Varnes
Good point Bill, I own an older 2 stroke Vespa Scooter (Germans call them
Rollers) and a newer 4 stroke. The 2 stroke is lighter, Quicker and more
nimble. It also gets better mileage. all this on 50 cc vs 150cc.
What is interesting is the fact that the transmission is a constant speed
type that tends to focus the rpm in a tight range. Makes you consider the idea
of running your 447 in that 5600 to 6100 range doesn't it? Over 6000 miles
at 30 mph and no problems. Not bad for one cylinder the size of your thumb.
steve
strokin 2 at a time
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Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: 4 stroke versus 2 stroke engines - Which is more reliable? |
Mr. Murphy,
Let me reply to your question with a terribly long but pertinent discorse on the
2 cycle/4 cycle subject.
This question cannot truly be answered because it does not have enough parameters.
It is kind of like asking iwhich is better a Ford or Chevy. When a person
eliminates brand loyalty and gets down to the details..not enough parameters.
For instance..which is better, a Corvette, or a Pinto? And what features weigh
the most in your desires? GAs milage?, or life? or maybe 1/4 mile speed...or
top speed possibly, or cost.
The issue of reliablility needs more details too. like "Reliable for how long?
So which 2 stroke vs which 4 stroke?
And for how long. Detroit deisel makes 2 cycle engines which are reliable for many
more hours of service than , say..a Rotax 912 or a Lycoming IO-360
Tecumseh makes a small 2 cycle engine that is very reliable for about 50 hours..then
it is wore out and will become unreliable. IT does very well in its intended
market.
One can look at the content of Brother Steve B's answer and determine that Steve's
priority characteristic is power to weight ratio, and it is very hard to create
a 4 cycle engine that can beat a 2 cycle in this arena, so he is right according
to his highest priority.
But if longevity of service is a higher priority, then a 4 cycle might be the winning
choice, but which particular ones? As the above examples indicate, more
specifics are needed.
And of course, how about cost...a factor that certainly might play highly to one
list of "preferred characteristics".
When we isolate our choices to engines suitable and commonly used on aircraft,
which undoubtedly you are thinking. There still needs to be more parameters for
an accurate analysis. Which specific engines and what lifespan is desired or
determined "acceptable " in terms of hours of service before the lack of reliablility
due to excessive wear is discounted as "expected".
Generally 2 cycles run at a higher rpm so they wear faster..But really fast 4 cycles
will wear at near the same rate. Ring/cylinder/skirt wear is a function
of piston speed first...other factors second. This generally gives faster engines
less service lifespan. It DOES NOT necesssarily make them less reliable.
WIth IC Engines, Like with different designs of aircraft, features of performance
are generally all compromises with other features. Fast wings vs low stall
wings. High wing loading vs low wing loading..neither is better than the other
generally, but there are obvious winners when more parameters are given and
priorities arranged by either mission requirements, or other desires deemed most
important.
So in a nutshell, the definition of "reliability" needs an expected service life
parameter to start an accurate....errr..debate!!! [Laughing]
--------
Don G
FireFly#098
http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
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