Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:03 AM - Aileron rolls in a Firestar - It cannot be done? (John H Murphy)
2. 05:38 AM - Re: 4 stroke versus 2 stroke engines - Which is more reliable?4 stroke versus 2 stroke engines - Which is more (End User)
3. 06:05 AM - 4 stroke versus 2 stroke (russ kinne)
4. 07:08 AM - New brake pedal design (Paul Petty)
5. 07:46 AM - Re: Kolb Fly-In at KHZR (ghaley@wt.net)
6. 07:52 AM - Nose Hoop (Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL)
7. 07:55 AM - For Vic Gibson (John Hauck)
8. 07:57 AM - Re: Nose Hoop (John Hauck)
9. 10:09 AM - Re: Aileron rolls in a Firestar - It cannot be done? (Dana Hague)
10. 12:35 PM - Sold MkII (Charles Blackwell)
11. 01:32 PM - Re: Aileron rolls in a Firestar - It cannot be done? (JetPilot)
12. 01:44 PM - Re: nose cones (JetPilot)
13. 01:56 PM - Re: Aileron rolls in a Firestar - It cannot be done? (jam-n)
14. 02:01 PM - Re: For Vic Gibson (JetPilot)
15. 02:04 PM - Re: New brake pedal design (JetPilot)
16. 02:19 PM - Re: Sold MkII (flykolb)
17. 02:26 PM - Re: Nose Hoop (planecrazzzy)
18. 02:29 PM - Re: Aileron rolls in a Firestar - It cannot be done? (jim)
19. 02:32 PM - Re: New brake pedal design (Paul Petty)
20. 02:49 PM - Re: Re: Aileron rolls in a Firestar - It cannot be done? (Jim Kmet)
21. 02:54 PM - Re: Re: Aileron rolls in a Firestar - It cannot be done? (Dana Hague)
22. 03:51 PM - Re: Re: Aileron rolls in a Firestar - It cannot be done? (possums)
23. 04:06 PM - Re: Re: Aileron rolls in a Firestar - It cannot be done? (Jack Day)
24. 04:28 PM - Re: Re: Aileron rolls in a Firestar - It cannot be done? (possums)
25. 05:46 PM - Re: Aileron rolls in a Firestar - DANGEROUS MANUEVER (jam-n)
26. 05:49 PM - Re: Re: Aileron rolls in a Firestar - It cannot be done? (Jack Day)
27. 06:02 PM - Re: Re: prop hub extentions (John Hauck)
28. 06:10 PM - Re: Re: Aileron rolls in a Firestar - It cannot be done? (possums)
29. 06:20 PM - Re: radio noise (russ kinne)
30. 06:23 PM - Re: Re: Aileron rolls in a Firestar - It cannot be done? (Jack Day)
31. 06:30 PM - q (russ kinne)
32. 07:08 PM - Re: Re: nose cones (John Hauck)
33. 07:23 PM - Re: Re: Aileron rolls in a Firestar - It cannot be done? (John Hauck)
34. 07:37 PM - Re: Re: Aileron rolls in a Firestar - It cannot be done? (John Hauck)
35. 07:38 PM - Metal or rubber tubes. (Arizona Man)
36. 07:46 PM - Re: Sold MkII (Scott Mac.)
37. 10:11 PM - Party (possums)
38. 10:36 PM - Fw: Party (possums)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Aileron rolls in a Firestar - It cannot be done? |
Hi All,
Just got back from a two day (16 hour) FAA Inspection course at Rainbow Aviation
in Northern California. Excellent course. I will be able to do all my FAA annuals
on any E-LSA that I own now or in the future. The instruction from Carol
& Brian Carpenter was really first class.
Anyway Brian told the class that the Firestar is unable to complete a aileron roll
because of the wing design. He said the only way to recover is to put the
aircraft in a dive (I hope I have this right).
Not that I intend to do any aileron rolls in my Firestar II but what's the story?
Is this true? Is there a flaw in the Firestar's wing design?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=100040#100040
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: 4 stroke versus 2 stroke engines - Which is more reliable?4 |
stroke versus 2 stroke engines - Which is more
Hey Rick and all, we might add the time wasted fiddling with that
car engine.
I could have built two airplanes in the time I spent on mine.
As far as the suzuki is concerned, the engine has performed flawlessly
with the exception of a possible carb ice one morning early on before
I had crafted a little water heated manifold muff for it.
The weak spot is the redrive, getting the bearing preload just right
on the Raven reduction. The russian made gear reduction might
have saved me a lot of trouble although they are a bit heavier.
I've spent my whole life doing things my way (wrong) the first time.
Not going to change now.
BB, getting warm enough to venture back in the shop for some more
fiddling on the Kolb.
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | 4 stroke versus 2 stroke |
One more little thing about 2-stroke vs 4-stroke -- the type of use
can affect reliability. Many 2-strokes are used as generators, or
engines on freighters -- where they may run at the same speed for
many many hours, or even days.
This is very different than zzipping around the patch & changing
throttle settings frequently.
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | New brake pedal design |
THis is a new brake pedal design by Mark G. He was not happy with performance of
the Matco/Kolb combo. I have a set instaled in a temporay state for testing.
Mark was unaware I had the master cyls with the resevouir made into the cyls
so the clearance is tight. He has a new set on the way and I will send more photos
and video once installed. Here is some pics of what we have so far. They
work really smooth even tho they rub just a tad.
--------
Paul Petty
Kolbra #12
Ms Dixie
Final assembly!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=100055#100055
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/pedals_985.wmv
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscn0847_182.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscn0845_627.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscn0844_111.jpg
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Kolb Fly-In at KHZR |
Hello John/All,
The new will be worn off this thing I just finished building so count me
and my Mark III in.
I'll go anyway the group wants to go; arrive Friday/Saturday and leave
Saturday/Sunday.
Gary Haley
Dry Creek Airport, Cypress, TX (TS07)
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
<< ... how endemic is the nose tipping over potential? Ron >>
Cap'n Ron, and Kolbers -
I had a passenger with me on a windy day, and we had stopped on the
taxiway to do our runup. Wind was coming from the side. When I
increased the RPM for the runup, the tail instantly came up. I
throttled back before the nose hoop hit the ground, and the tail settled
back down. This had never happened before. (My passenger, though
silent, looked at me with that "what the hell is happening" look in his
eyes!)
I knew this had something to do with the wind, so tried my runup again
with the stick fully back. No difference - tail came up again when the
RPM reached 3000. Apparently, the wind was strong enough to blow the
propwash away from the tail, making full up elevator ineffective in
keeping the tail down with the forward CG of having a passenger.
Luckly, we did not nose over - but if we had, I would've been glad that
hoop was there to protect the nose cone. ("Training wheel" to some on
this List with more forwardly-located main gear.) Point is, you may
encounter unforeseen conditions that could cause a stock Kolb to
genuflect unexpectedly.
Dennis Kirby
Mark-3, 912
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Morning Vic:
Homer Kolb designed a great wing that can hardly be improved upon for the type
flying the Kolb aircraft was designed for.
The stall could not be more gentle. However, like anyother airplane, when it quits
flying, it quits flying.
The bow type is a unique design which makes the Kolb wing do the things it does.
Change it and you will mess up something else.
I can not comment on vortex generators. I have no experience with them on a Kolb
or any other aircraft.
I have never found any valid reason to change Homer's wing. Others have, without
improvement, much to their dismay.
I am on the road and can not get this system to send regular email or I would answered
your 's bc.
--------
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler, alabama
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=100062#100062
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Dennis:
What about turning the nose of the aircraft into the wind?
--------
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler, alabama
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=100065#100065
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Aileron rolls in a Firestar - It cannot be done? |
At 04:00 AM 3/12/2007, John H Murphy wrote:
>
>Not that I intend to do any aileron rolls in my Firestar II but what's the
>story? Is this true? Is there a flaw in the Firestar's wing design?
It's not a design flaw; it's just a matter of the design parameters
chosen. The Firestar isn't designed to be an aerobatic ship. The flat
bottom airfoil is good for low speed performance and flying right side up,
but flat bottom airfoils just don't work very well upside down. A Pitts
Special can fly upside down all day long, but it doesn't have any hear the
STOL capability of a Kolb, either.
-Dana
--
--
For people who like peace and quiet: a phoneless cord.
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
My MkII Twinstar was sold this weekend (finally) to Scott MacPetrie of
Michigan. He might need some help from kolb experienced pilots in his area,
so I gave him the list address and encouraged him to visit. Please make him
feel welcome when he shows up.
Charlie, MkII in NJ
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Aileron rolls in a Firestar - It cannot be done? |
He probably should not have used the term "Unable To complete a Roll". The flat
bottom wing does not fly well upside down, but they do roll. You do not have
to go negative G to roll a plane.
Chances of it being successfully done are probably pretty low, im sure the great
majority of people would screw it up and probably overstress the airplane, or
kill themselves.
But to say it "Cant Be Done", I just dont buy that.
JettpIlot
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=100107#100107
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
The further foward the main gear, the much greater tendency there is to ground
loop, and it also puts a lot more stress on the tailwheel.
I would rather have a nose over than a ground loop anyday :)
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=100108#100108
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Aileron rolls in a Firestar - It cannot be done? |
well, the procedure to roll a c-150 or a c-172 is to add power, lower
nose and roll... maybe toss is a bit rudder. and even then it is a
wallowed out roll at best. all the time trying to not overspeed nor over
stress...
so given the limited envelope of an ultralight such as a firestar... how
could it be done? and would it not be just a wallow through?
just curious...
jamn
do not archive
On 3/12/2007, "JetPilot" <orcabonita@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>He probably should not have used the term "Unable To complete a Roll". The flat
bottom wing does not fly well upside down, but they do roll. You do not have
to go negative G to roll a plane.
>
>Chances of it being successfully done are probably pretty low, im sure the great
majority of people would screw it up and probably overstress the airplane,
or kill themselves.
>
>But to say it "Cant Be Done", I just dont buy that.
>
>JettpIlot
>
>--------
>"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=100107#100107
>
>
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: For Vic Gibson |
Someone needs to sneek out to Haucks Holler and attach some Vortex Generators for
him in the night :) Given the overwhelming positive comments from people
that have Vortex Generators, I think John just might like them.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=100111#100111
Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: New brake pedal design |
Paul,
You are have been posting some neat stuff on the list lately. Makes me wonder
what else you have done that I have not seen. Can you post some pictures of your
entire plane ?
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=100112#100112
Message 16
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Charlie
Where in Michigan?
Jim
Mt Clemens, MI
20 miles north of Detroit
----- Original Message -----
From: Charles Blackwell
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 2:33 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Sold MkII
My MkII Twinstar was sold this weekend (finally) to Scott MacPetrie of
Michigan. He might need some help from kolb experienced pilots in his
area, so I gave him the list address and encouraged him to visit.
Please make him feel welcome when he shows up.
Charlie, MkII in NJ
Message 17
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
I took mine "off" this year....I used it a couple of times....Hopefully I know
when I'm pushing it....and back off....
It mostly came up when a wheel would get into a rut with a little braking added
to that....
Gotta Fly...
Mike in Mn / Without my Training Hoop
--------
.
.
.
.
.
Do Not Archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=100121#100121
Message 18
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Aileron rolls in a Firestar - It cannot be done? |
Normally in a low performance airplane you would get some speed, raise the nose
20 degrees, then do your aileron roll. The slower the roll response the higher
you raise the nose to start; that way you won't exceed Vne on recovery. The
nose should end up only slightly nose low; not 30 degrees nose down.
--------
Jim
N. Idaho
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=100122#100122
Message 19
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: New brake pedal design |
Mike,
I used to be pretty active on this list as I completed this or that. Then i got
into the areas that were not much to look at AKA Boring. I am about 2 weeks from
taxi testing and things are getting interesting again. This Kolbra as is Mark
Germans have under gone many mods. Mine will be the first (as far as I know)
to have flaps. Electric flaps at that. The reason for electirc was there was
no other way to get it done. I will compile a CD of building photos when I am
finished and weather is no good for flying. Will be happy to sent anyone a free
copy. For now I post photos on MSN
http://groups.msn.com/AerialWorld/kolbra012.msnw
Book mark that site as I add photos almost daily. If there are any areas if interest
let me know. Sheesh I must have over 4000 photos during this 3 year 6 month
project!
--------
Paul Petty
Kolbra #12
Ms Dixie
Final assembly!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=100123#100123
Message 20
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Aileron rolls in a Firestar - It cannot be done? |
I`ll bet Dennis S. Knows the answer to this.!!
----- Original Message -----
From: "jim" <jim@tru-cast.com>
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 4:29 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Aileron rolls in a Firestar - It cannot be done?
>
> Normally in a low performance airplane you would get some speed, raise the
> nose 20 degrees, then do your aileron roll. The slower the roll response
> the higher you raise the nose to start; that way you won't exceed Vne on
> recovery. The nose should end up only slightly nose low; not 30 degrees
> nose down.
>
> --------
> Jim
> N. Idaho
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=100122#100122
>
>
>
Message 21
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Aileron rolls in a Firestar - It cannot be done? |
At 04:46 PM 3/12/2007, jam-n wrote:
>well, the procedure to roll a c-150 or a c-172 is to add power, lower
>nose and roll... maybe toss is a bit rudder. and even then it is a
>wallowed out roll at best. all the time trying to not overspeed nor over
>stress...
>
>so given the limited envelope of an ultralight such as a firestar... how
>could it be done? and would it not be just a wallow through?
Way back when I was young and stupid I allegedly did loops and rolls in
Cessnas and Pipers (and scared the hell out of myself a few times). Only
tried to roll my T-Craft once, the roll rate was so slow it didn't feel
safe (as opposed to snap rolls which it did nicely until I started thinking
about the age of the structure...).
I don't know about a Kolb, what's the roll rate like? (I haven't flown
mine yet.)
-Dana
--
--
For people who like peace and quiet: a phoneless cord.
Message 22
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Aileron rolls in a Firestar - It cannot be done? |
>
>
>I don't know about a Kolb, what's the roll rate like? (I haven't
>flown mine yet.)
>
> -Dana
I don't know exactly, but I think you would fall out of the top of
the roll and be
looking straight down at the ground - watching the little airspeed needle bury
itself. I vote that the roll rate is too slow to get all the way around without
way exceeding the limits of a Firestar - I don't know about the other planes.
Wiggle your wings from 45 right to 45 left and calculate a 360. It's
going to get
slower as you lose speed and come all the way around. Do a loop if you want to
try something that can be done.
Right John H?
Message 23
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Aileron rolls in a Firestar - It cannot be done? |
Hello Jim,
Dennis will not have to respond. Can not be done.
You had better take care of that Mark III.
Jack D. do not archive
>
> I`ll bet Dennis S. Knows the answer to this.!!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "jim" <jim@tru-cast.com>
> To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 4:29 PM
> Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Aileron rolls in a Firestar - It cannot be done?
>
>
>>
>> Normally in a low performance airplane you would get some speed, raise
>> the nose 20 degrees, then do your aileron roll. The slower the roll
>> response the higher you raise the nose to start; that way you won't
>> exceed Vne on recovery. The nose should end up only slightly nose low;
>> not 30 degrees nose down.
>>
>> --------
>> Jim
>> N. Idaho
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=100122#100122
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 24
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Aileron rolls in a Firestar - It cannot be done? |
At 07:03 PM 3/12/2007, you wrote:
>
>Hello Jim,
>Dennis will not have to respond. Can not be done.
>You had better take care of that Mark III.
>Jack D. do not archive
Is this the same "Jack Day" that ran a red light in Breman
Georgia in his ultralight.
Message 25
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Aileron rolls in a Firestar - DANGEROUS MANUEVER |
having done many, many aileron rolls and aileron rolls in sequential
groups... in such aircraft as the Navy-Beech T-34 Mentor, M-D A4
Skyhawk... and some in the 2-hole Pitts Special. and others... and...
the C-172 and... yes 'even' the C-150... my experience has shown me...
[keyword ME], that high drag aircraft, with slow roll rates will have,
at best... a pronounced nose low attitude upon recovery. and an
immediate reduction in power is required in an attempt to avoid Vne once
on the recovery side of being upsidedown. it really falls fast in the
last quarter off the upsidedown portion of the roll recovery in a high
drag airframe... and it has been as such Every time!... a big wallow in
a high drag, slow roll bird... and nose low and gaining speed or if done
wrong... slow and approaching an upsidedown stall... to me every time i
have attempted or completed such an event in a slow, high drag airframe
i can only consider it to have been a dangerous maneuver. hardly a safe,
acrobatic maneuver.
no doubt it can be done... and one can wallow thru it... given imo, more
braun in the cockpit than a sense of cool smarts... :) but clearly it is
a DANGEROUS maneuver. " kids, don't attempt this at home!"
in fact, tonite on local 6pm news last item was pix of the acro pilot in
brazil or some place close... high and tight... rolling, flipping,
zipping and all this and that at an airshow... wow... and then... NO
MORE air! " ouch " and he bot the farm in full view of the crowd. even
safe things can get dangerous... and rolling slow, high drag aircraft is
always dangerous...
ymmv, but i am not so sure... ;)
regards
jam'n
>
>Normally in a low performance airplane you would get some speed, raise the nose
20 degrees, then do your aileron roll. The slower the roll response the higher
you raise the nose to start; that way you won't exceed Vne on recovery. The
nose should end up only slightly nose low; not 30 degrees nose down.
>
>--------
>Jim
>N. Idaho
Message 26
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Aileron rolls in a Firestar - It cannot be done? |
Yes it is possum # 1, I am not sure what number I am,
but I am a possum. I think you like to call me jack danials. Hello Stan. Do
not archive. !!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: "possums" <possums@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 7:28 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Aileron rolls in a Firestar - It cannot be done?
>
> At 07:03 PM 3/12/2007, you wrote:
>>
>>Hello Jim,
>>Dennis will not have to respond. Can not be done.
>>You had better take care of that Mark III.
>>Jack D. do not archive
>
>
> Is this the same "Jack Day" that ran a red light in Breman
> Georgia in his ultralight.
>
>
>
Message 27
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: prop hub extentions |
plates are
| mostly for wood props. You may not be need to use them on metal or
medal hub
| props. Check with your prop manufacturer.
|
| Rick Neilsen
|
Rick N:
Warp Drive requires crush plate, per Daryl at Warp Drive.
john h
mkIII
Tunica, MS, RON and 360 miles to go.
Message 28
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Aileron rolls in a Firestar - It cannot be done? |
At 07:28 PM 3/12/2007, you wrote:
>d. Can not be done.
>>You had better take care of that Mark III.
>>Jack D. do not archive
>
>
>Is this the same "Jack Day" that ran a red light in Breman
>Georgia in his ultralight.
Let me tell you guys about Jack a "Possum" from way back.
I watched him land a "Challenger" after his belt broke over
Bremen, Georgia on our way back from (I think) Lakeland
Fla. He said "I'm puttin it down" and I'm thinking "where are
you putting it down"?? So ....I'm looking for a field or something
(there wasn't any) and watching him go down - of course. Go down into the
main intersection of Bremen Georgia (not a big city). He had the green light.
But ...then I watched the light turn red! I thought "this sucks for Jack"!
Watched him touch down and roll thru the intersection - cars slam on
brakes, Jack turn into the ditch etc. Cool ....but we gotta go.
Long story short, we sent him a ride back from Rome Ga. after hearing
he was OK on the radio. No sense in all of getting on the local news.
Been there, done that.
Message 29
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Bob N/aging expert
Can you tell me brand name of flashlite that charges a cellphone?
Would appreciate.
Also, thee & mee are way too young (!!) to remember the shenanigans
that went on in WWII, but a chap I worked with did work for Federal
Electric in NJ during the end of the war -- he were a most talented
& active Ham, built a xmtr and axed the FAA for permission to test
it. OK with a dummy load, they said.
So he put his dummy load at the end of about 100yd of bright shiny
new copper wire & had at it., They say he swept the whole 10-meter
band? is that correct? Anyway he never got more than yelled at
(considerably) -- I liked him a lot, and his attitude got lots of
difficult projects done later on -- which we both were grateful for --
Best,
Russ
On Mar 8, 2007, at 12:04 AM, Bob Noyer wrote:
>
> Thanks for the tutorial, Boyd
>
> The current flowing on the inside of the outer conductor, and on
> the outside of the inner conductor in a coaxial transmission line
> will have a difficult time being affected by a ferrite choke; in an
> open wire, yes. BUTT, maybe things have changed of late. Speaking
> of backyards, some 40 years ago I had a 25' dish, with a homemade
> 1KW transmitter on 432.000 mHz aimed at the moon. Had a sked with
> dentist in Zurich E-M-E from Cedar Rapids.
>
> regards,
> Bob N. BSEE '49 Purdue, Ham since 1950
> http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/ronoy/
>
> do not archive
>
>
Message 30
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Aileron rolls in a Firestar - It cannot be done? |
Stan , the reason I have responded to this list is because I sold my mark
III back to the gentlemen that built it.
That would be Jim Kmet, great person. Just wanted him to know you can't roll
a Kolb.
----- Original Message -----
From: "possums" <possums@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 9:10 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Aileron rolls in a Firestar - It cannot be done?
>
> At 07:28 PM 3/12/2007, you wrote:
>>d. Can not be done.
>>>You had better take care of that Mark III.
>>>Jack D. do not archive
>>
>>
>>Is this the same "Jack Day" that ran a red light in Breman
>>Georgia in his ultralight.
>
> Let me tell you guys about Jack a "Possum" from way back.
> I watched him land a "Challenger" after his belt broke over
> Bremen, Georgia on our way back from (I think) Lakeland
> Fla. He said "I'm puttin it down" and I'm thinking "where are
> you putting it down"?? So ....I'm looking for a field or something
> (there wasn't any) and watching him go down - of course. Go down into the
> main intersection of Bremen Georgia (not a big city). He had the green
> light.
> But ...then I watched the light turn red! I thought "this sucks for Jack"!
> Watched him touch down and roll thru the intersection - cars slam on
> brakes, Jack turn into the ditch etc. Cool ....but we gotta go.
> Long story short, we sent him a ride back from Rome Ga. after hearing
> he was OK on the radio. No sense in all of getting on the local news.
> Been there, done that.
>
>
>
Message 31
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
List, my apologies. That msg was intended for Bob N, not the List. Sorry
do not archive
Message 32
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
|
| Mike
Mike B:
Not me!
I've done nose plowing with Firestar and MKIII. I can assure you that
ground looping a mkIII with 6' track is really another maneuver to
keep me out of trouble when I get into a situation where I can not
stop before I implant myself on whatever is in front of me. The
ability to ground loop has saved my airplane several times over the
years.
There have been several times I have ground looped when I had no
intention of doing so, too. During a flight to OSH I landed at my
usual refuel airport, Joliet, IL. Took off from Joliet and next
landing was on dry grass on the UL/Lt Plane airstrip OSH. Landing to
the north with a 15 to 25 mph 90 degree cross wind from the west.
Soon as I touched down, with full right brake, wheel locked and
skidding, the tail went right any how, and I did a 180 degree ground
loop in front of God and all the fence hangers at the UL strip. Wings
stayed level, as usual. When I stopped ground looping, I throttle up
and taxied over to the fence, got out, stretched, and went on about my
business. No one, even Frank Beagle in the tower, ever asked me or
kidded me about my ground loop landing at OSH. What happened was the
lose of the right rudder/tail wheel spring, giving me full left
tailwheel and no way to turn it right.
Mike, I have no problem taxiing through sand, mud, tall weeds, rough
terrain because I do have the main gear about 8" forward and over 100
lbs on the tail wheel. I never have a nose over tendancy. I can
relax and taxi my airplane with comfort. Yes, it is more difficult to
land, and at times, take off because it is a "real" taildragger, but
does not take long to learn to live with this and be able to fly good
enough not to kill ones self. It does take good differential brakes,
at times, because you can get ahead of the rudder, and never catch up
until you are facing the opposite direction.
But................don't have to worry about flying around with a
training skid under my nose and my tail sticking up in the air.
However, I do have a bit of time in a lot of standard Kolb aircraft,
and haven't put one on its nose in a long time. Last year at the Kolb
Flyin at Labhart Field was a good example of what one can do with a
standard Kolb in some pretty tough wind conditions and not get the
airplane on its nose. I was flying a FS II. Did not have as much
luck staying dry though. The field was wet, I was making a short
landing at the east departure end of the strip, though I was going to
go over the precipice because the wheels were locked and I was not
slowing up the way I wanted to. I put the FS in a left ground loop
and thoroughly soaked me and the airplane. But........did not go over
the end of the strip. ;-)
john h
mkIII
Message 33
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Aileron rolls in a Firestar - It cannot be done? |
The nose should end up only slightly nose low; not 30 degrees nose
down.
|
| --------
| Jim
Jim:
Firestars, especially the early model Firestar, would not roll. I
used to practice hours at a time. Even had my old buddy on the ground
coaching me with a hand held radio. I could get her upside down and
she would fall out of it. Was not problem other than the fact we
could only get half way through the maneuver. No big problem when one
screwed up, turn loose of the stick and she would start flying again.
Amazing little airplane, but.............she was not built for
aerobatics and tried to kill me when she had had enough. Aerobatics
are for aerobatic aircraft. Aerobatics are not for little airplanes
that are not rated as such. I have not done an aerobatic maneuver, on
purpose, in 17 years tomorrow, if I remember correctly.
If some of you all still want to do loops and rolls, hammer heads, and
all the rest of the fun stuff in a Kolb, be my guest. However, please
remember the penalty for performing these maneuvers is a great
possibilty you will die. Thanks, Jim Handbury, for designing and
manufacturing a great deployed emergency parachute. Dennis Souder
used a similar parachute when he folded the wing on the Ultrastar six
years prior.
john h
mkIII
Message 34
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Aileron rolls in a Firestar - It cannot be done? |
Thanks, Jim Handbury, for designing and
| manufacturing a great "HAND" deployed emergency parachute.
| john h
| mkIII
Message 35
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Metal or rubber tubes. |
I am about to start ordering fittings, but will wait your responses. This is the
situation; I have the fuel tanks mounted, or rather mounted fitted and now are
off. But now I must decide the plumbing. Ok shall I go with rubber or alum
tubing. Rubber is easier but alum seems to be better for fuel, or is it?
I would like to hear some opinions about pro and cons, and whatever else you folks
have discovered. Craig Nelson used metal and I like the way it looks. On the
other hand with those slip on fittings it make the whole thing an easy afternoon
fun job. No need to flare the tube and try to figure out the sizes and so
on. I essentially have -8 and -6 pipe thread openings in the fuel tanks, and
will carry mogas, I am not sure about the Suzuki on 100LL.
Ron (Arizoan)
Message 36
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Thanks for the intro Charlie,
Jim, I'm just a few miles up Gratiot in New Haven.
I'd love to take a look at your ship to get some ideas.
--------
Scott Mac.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=100216#100216
Message 37
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
We are having a "Possum" party at my Dad's house next Saturday He's 80,
March 17th - in Powder Springs, Georgia. Free beer,steaks and lobster.
Bring a sleeping bag - or your wife - if you can't drive home.
Me, Dad, George Murphy, Greg Elliot, Fred Murphy, Bob Leatherwood, etc.
Bill Ferguson,maybe you and maybe John & Charlie? - ask them!!
call me or email me.
770-422-1318
http://www.sullivanhouse.com/
Message 38
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
BTW : We close the Wedding House in the winter and just have fun.
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|