Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 11:08 AM - Re: Hauck mkIII Lives (JetPilot)
2. 11:13 AM - Re: Ms Dixie update (JetPilot)
3. 11:16 AM - Re: Rotax Oil Filter question (JetPilot)
4. 11:58 AM - Warp Drive prop inertia concerns (Richard Girard)
5. 12:04 PM - Re: Rotax Oil Filter question (boyd)
6. 12:20 PM - Re: Re: Rotax Oil Filter question (John Hauck)
7. 01:05 PM - Re: Warp Drive prop inertia concerns (John Williamson)
8. 02:46 PM - Re: Rotax Oil Filter question (Ron)
9. 02:59 PM - Re: Re: Rotax Oil Filter question (Ron)
10. 03:19 PM - Re: Re: Warp Drive prop inertia concerns (John Hauck)
11. 04:16 PM - Re: Rotax Oil Filter question (Roger Lee)
12. 04:22 PM - Re: Warp Drive prop inertia concerns (Roger Lee)
13. 04:25 PM - Re: Re: Rotax Oil Filter question (John Hauck)
14. 04:42 PM - Re: Re: Warp Drive prop inertia concerns (John Hauck)
15. 05:03 PM - Re: Ms Dixie update (Paul Petty)
16. 05:38 PM - Re: Gasohol (Ralph B)
17. 05:58 PM - Re: Re: Ms Dixie update (John Hauck)
18. 06:04 PM - Re: Re: Gasohol (John Hauck)
19. 06:08 PM - pictures from a kolb (Bill Vincent)
20. 06:40 PM - Re: pictures from a kolb (Larry Bourne)
21. 06:49 PM - A Continental A-65 on a Kolb MkIII? Why not? (Tom Deiulio)
22. 07:01 PM - Re: Re: Gasohol (Larry Cottrell)
23. 07:14 PM - heaters again (Larry Cottrell)
24. 07:50 PM - Re: A Continental A-65 on a Kolb MkIII? Why not? (Ron)
25. 07:51 PM - Re: Ground Idea (olendorf)
26. 08:10 PM - Re: Re: Gasohol (John Hauck)
27. 08:51 PM - re. gasohol (boyd)
28. 09:08 PM - Re: re. gasohol (John Hauck)
29. 10:01 PM - Re: A Continental A-65 on a Kolb MkIII? Why not? (Richard Girard)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Hauck mkIII Lives |
John,
I will most definately put on my Warp Drive the first chance I have. There are
so many Warp Drive props out there and they have a great record. With the Warp
I will also have a fair chance of the prop not comming apart when something
comes off my engine and runs through it [Shocked]
My only question is if I should have gotten the 72 inch or not. I would like the
extra performance. Do you think the extra noise in your case could be from
the tips being so close to the boom ? I have enough clearance, that I could
run either size of prop 70 or 72 and not have to worry about the tips being
to close to the boom and making a bunch of noise.
Rotax recommendations or not, a 68 inch or less would be a real dissapointment
on a 912-S, I dont think the performane would be good at all once the diameter
of the prop started getting that small on a Kolb.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=106899#106899
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| Subject: | Re: Ms Dixie update |
cspoke wrote:
> Wow Mike. Your plane is gorgeous. Thanks for the picture. I sure hope that mine
turns out looking close to as nice as yours.
Thanks,
Maybe I should just put it in a Museum somewhere ( the Smithsonian should give
me a tax Deduction :) )... I am afraid that I might ding it if I fly it !
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=106903#106903
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax Oil Filter question |
Where do you get the Mobil 1 4t Racing Synthetic oil ??? I have never seen it
at the auto parts store here :(
Also John, where do you get the Shell Rotella Oil ?
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=106904#106904
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| Subject: | Warp Drive prop inertia concerns |
Mike, et al, Since you haven't installed your new Warp Drive prop yet, why
not take an hour and test it's inertia per Rotax service information
bulletin SI 11 UL 91E? It's really easy to do, all it takes is a small piece
of plywood, some safety wire and a stop watch. Better to know you're within
limits, than guess, eh?
You can download SI 11 UL 91E from the Rotax owners web site.
Rick
--
Rick Girard
"Ya'll drop on in"
takes on a whole new meaning
when you live at the airport.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax Oil Filter question |
Ok, lets go back a few years... and there are probably some left in
operation still today. Aircraft engines never had oil filters, at all.
They use to run the oil through a fine mesh screen. The oil change period
was at 25 hours, when they went to a filter the time doubled to 50 hours.
So lets look at the process of filtering oil in the rotax 912. as long as
the filter medium will pass all the oil being pumped there is a 100%
filtering. If the medium gets dirty or plugged, ( you have a big problem
any way).. or the pump is pushing the oil through till the pressure gradient
across the filter reaches 12 to 13 lbs. Then the bypass opens, the oil
that goes through the bypass will be returned to the engine mixed with the
filtered oil.
: These following numbers are pulled out of the air, and are for example
only :
Lets say for example that: ( I'm thinking worst case here)
50 % of the oil is being bypassed,
You have 4 quarts on board
The oil pump delivers 2 quarts a min
Every 2 min the engine will go through all the available oil on board.
Every 4 min 4 quarts of oil will go through the filter medium.
Every 6 min 98 to 99% of every drop will go through the filter.
On average all the oil will go through the filter element 15 times an hour.
If the engine is creating enough crud that every 6 min between filtering,
near every drop, is a problem, then the engine is going to fail within the
next hour anyway. Remember the old aircraft engines would go 25 hours with
no filtering. Even if an element rips open,,, still a small % will go
through the filter element... and unless there is such a catastrophic
breakdown of the element as to plug everything up... the engine would still
get oil. The oil pressure gauge should warn you of a catastrophic type of
failure.
>From the filters that I have cut open,,, including lots of fram filters. I
have had to pry and pull and cut and hack and dispel copious amounts of
energy to get the elements apart. In an effort to see what the element had
filtered out of the oil. I've not seen a bad one yet.
Boyd
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax Oil Filter question |
|
| Mike
Mike B/Gang:
Shell Rotella Full Syn is avail at Wal*Mart. Best buy for full syn
oil.
john h
mkIII
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Warp Drive prop inertia concerns |
It took over 30 minutes to find the document you were referring to on the Rotax
Owners web site.
It can't be very relevent any more since the real Rotax site doesn't carry it:
http://www.rotax-aircraft-engines.com/a_searchdoc.aspx
To make it easier for those that are interested, I have uploaded the .pdf file
with this post.
It is listed as SI-11-1991 and it's old number is SI 11 UL 91 E.
I have zero concerns about running my 68 inch 3 blade Warp Drive tapered tip prop
with nickel leading edges on my Rotax 912ULS. It seems to make the Kolbra perform
fairly well!
--------
John Williamson
Arlington, TX
Kolbra, 912ULS
http://home.tx.rr.com/kolbrapilot
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=106922#106922
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/11ul91_818.pdf
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax Oil Filter question |
that's am interesting question. I can only relate to it by thinking as to what
Rotax was trying to do. It seems to me that Rotax decided that since in 912 motor
goes in airplanes it should have an aviation oil filter. Based on what you
wrote I think they copied the CH48109 type filters that go on Lycomings. These
filters have a bypass valve that will allow the oil to flow through under some
over pressure situations. Such as the oil is too congealed because of cold
to flow through the media or if there is so much gunk in your motor to plug it
up. Would any of those be of concern to me for example. I don't think so, if
I use synthetic oil which I would, it would flow in any condition that I care
to fly. If there is too much gunk (metal) in the engine to plug up my filter to
activate the bypass valve I think the engine would break before the valve would
open. There is another possibility with the Rotax that under certain RPM combinations
the oil pump may shove through more oil than the filter media can
handle and then its essential that the bypass valve opens or you can burst the
filter or some other such nasty stuff . If I were not to use the Rotax filter
I would buy an oversize filter for a bigger motor that fits and use it. Just
to be on the safe side.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax Oil Filter question |
Well this is funny Mike!
the only filter I ever use is Fram. :-)
Certainly for least 20 years. I think I started right after Consumer reports Magazine
did an oil filter test and Fram filter after their exhaustive testing came
on top. Even if they are not now and I don't know that they are not the top
filtering can, I figure that if it was good enough 15 20 years ago its still
good enough today. I am sure that they have improved to stay competitive. Never
a problem with the Fram filter.
Ron (Arizona)
========================
---- JetPilot <orcabonita@hotmail.com> wrote:
============
Dennis.Kirby(at)kirtland. wrote:
>
>
>Right there, in the middle of the page, in a box all by
>itself, is a big warning, telling Rotax 912 owners that they should
>NEVER use anything other than the prescribed Rotax oil filter, or you
>might ruin your engine. Reason was related to the bypass pressure in
>the filter.
>
>
Dennis
Rotax is trying to sell thier branded filters, which they do not manufacture for
themselves. Rotax uses fear and lack of knowlege as a way to sell their filters.
The bypass pressure is around 12 PSI on the rotax filter, and 13 on the replacement
filters you might use. That is a 1 PSI difference, get real, the engine
will never care if the filter goes into bypass at 12 or 13 PSI. Its either
bypassing or its not. If you had read Roger Lee's excellent article on this,
you would have known this. I went to the trouble to check Rogers facts from indepdendent
sources, and found Rogers conclusions to be right on the money.
Paul hit on something with Fram filters, I have read about fram filter media comming
apart from several different places, and now Paul says the same thing. The
only filter I would absalutely not use is a Fram.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have
!!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=106746#106746
--
kugelair.com
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Warp Drive prop inertia concerns |
tapered tip prop with nickel leading edges on my Rotax 912ULS. It
seems to make the Kolbra perform fairly well!
|
| --------
| John Williamson
Hi John W/Gang:
I'm not going to lose any sleep over flying Warp Drive Props with
nickle edges either. After 13 years and 2,500+ hours split between
two engines, without showing any wear in either engine to either gear
box, I have convinced myself that my 912ULS will preform as usual.
Same goes for my oil and oil filters.
I don't advise anyone to use anything I do. Based on the type of
flying, the places I have flown, and the places I plan to fly, I'm not
going to use a product that I have any doubts about, any at all.
I've got antique tractors that are 71 years old that still don't know
what an oil filter is and never will. ;-)
Plugging along getting the mkIII flyable in some very adverse weather.
john h
mkIII
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax Oil Filter question |
Hi Guys,
Real numbers are, the Rotax 912 uls pumps 4.5 gals. per minute and typically at
pressures in the neighborhood of 40-70 psi (average is approximately 45-60 psi).
The filters we use can handle at least 6 gal.+ per minute. Since Consumers
Reports did there oil filter report some things have changed. I live by that
magazine, but they can't do the same reports evey year, hince there are sometimes
big gaps in certain product reports.
Mobile One Racing 4T should be in automotive stores. I have seen it in several.
(Checker and Auto Zone)
Filters are not all the same. The old aircraft engines are not the same engine
that a Rotax is and neither is the technology. Different engines, time periods,
tolerances and knowledge.
Most filters use a standard paper element that has an effiency rating. Some paper
elements filter finer particles than others, hice the effiency rating. PurOne
has three filtering mediums not just one. Hince its 98% effiency rating.
I agree that if a filter plugs up enough to open the bypass then you have a far
bigger problem on your hands than worrying about which filter was on the aircraft.
Your engine is down right sick internally.
The Rotax European Champion filter is not strictly an aircarft filter, but designed
after car and motorcycles. At the time in Europe some filters had coiled
springs in the top of the filter and that is why Rotax doesn't use those types
as they can poke a hole in the top of the filter from vibration and they set
it up for a little higher pressures. They also upped the safety valve bypass pressures
that was too low at the time. A lot of engines now have higher oil pressures
due to our new style engines and changes in Manufacturing. Our engines
now days are much closer tolerances from the yester-year aircraft engines. Usually
the closer the tolerances the higher the oil pressure. Our engines are dry
sump and that means our engine oil lubricates with crankcase pressure. Wet
sumps are different.
While looking at oil don't bypass Amsoil motorcycle oil either 10-40 or 20-50.
It has better antifoaming and better shear protection than most others.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=106943#106943
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Warp Drive prop inertia concerns |
Hi John,
Were all those hours with a 68"+, nickel edged prop? I don't remember you with
the nickeled edge prop.
Your engine will run just like Eric Tucker said, but if the inertia is too much
it just causes premature wear.
Tapered tips are better than square tips as they have less mass. Eric warned us
away from the nickeled edged props. Too weighty at the tips for the tranny longevity.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=106945#106945
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax Oil Filter question |
Our engines are dry sump and that means our engine oil lubricates
with crankcase pressure. Wet sumps are different.
| Roger Lee
Roger:
How about explaining the above. Does "dry sump" really mean "ur
engine oil lubricates with crankcase pressure??? And "wet sumps are
different."???
john h
mkIII|
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Warp Drive prop inertia concerns |
remember you with the nickeled edge prop.
|
| --------
| Roger Lee
Hi Roger:
Don't know if you were addressing the question to John W or me.
If it was me, yes I flew all those hours with two 912's turning 70 and
72" Warps with nickle edges.
John W flies with a 68" Warp Drive and I can not remember if he has
nickle edges or not.
I have successfully completed Eric Tucker's 912 Course three times
now. I have good luck with 912's and get a lot of reliable service
from them.
Like I said in a previous msg, I am not going to do something with my
engine to put my life in jeopardy based on my flying style and the
"serious" areas I fly out West, in Canada, and Alaska.
john h
mkIII
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Ms Dixie update |
Lexan, Whoo haaaaa!
What fun this is!>>>> will go at it agin tomorrow!
http://groups.msn.com/AerialWorld/kolbra012.msnw?Page=7
do not archive
--------
Paul Petty
Kolbra #12
Ms Dixie
Final assembly!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=106952#106952
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Steve, all of the gas here in Minnesota is 10% ethanol, although there are a few
stations that are enthanol-free. I used the ethanol gas for many years and the
447 ran fine. A friend of mine started using the ethanol-free and I thought
his engine ran smoother, so I switched over and have had good luck with it.
Ralph
--------
Ralph B
Original Firestar
20 years flying it
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=106957#106957
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| Subject: | Re: Ms Dixie update |
|
Welcome to the Lexan Club!
john h
mkIII
DO NOT ARCHIVE
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there are a few stations that are enthanol-free.
| Ralph
Ralph:
My biggest concern operating a 2 stroke on ethanol laced fuel is
moisture in the crank case, rusting main ball bearings. Might also
attack the cast iron piston rings.
I don't know, just thinking out loud.
john h
mkIII
Message 19
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| Subject: | pictures from a kolb |
Hi Gang
Last summer I took this picture of someone going up the river "standing"
on a jet ski;
because I was flying against the wind, I was able to follow him for a
couple of miles, it looked like he was having a lot of fun. :-)
Bill Vincent
FS II
Do Not Archive
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| Subject: | Re: pictures from a kolb |
Mighty pretty, Bill. Do not Archive.
On 4/14/07, Bill Vincent <emailbill@chartermi.net> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Gang
> Last summer I took this picture of someone going up the river "standing"
> on a jet ski;
> because I was flying against the wind, I was able to follow him for a
> couple of miles, it looked like he was having a lot of fun. :-)
> Bill Vincent
> FS II
>
> Do Not Archive
>
>
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| Subject: | A Continental A-65 on a Kolb MkIII? Why not? |
I am lucky to have access to a Continental A-65-8 for a very reasonable
price, much less than the cost of a typical Rotax 582, VW conversion,
Jabiru and the like. I would like to open a discussion thread on the use
of this engine on the Kolb Mk III Xtra. I realize I will have to design
and build my own engine mount but don't see too many other challenges I
can't live with (the -8 version will not accept a starter or alternator,
so I hand prop). I appreciate any input from the list both for and
against. Thanks.
Message 22
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----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
>
> My biggest concern operating a 2 stroke on ethanol laced fuel is
> moisture in the crank case, rusting main ball bearings. Might also
> attack the cast iron piston rings.
>
Would moisture have a chance to rust anything with the Pennzoil? I can see
synthetic allowing rust, but natural oil?
Larry, Oregon
do not archive
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The weather here has been a bit nippy lately, which got me to thinking
about what I might encounter on a trip to Texas and back, so I put a
heater on the 503 today. I had one on the 447, but it wasn't worth
taking off and most likely wouldn't have fit any way. As a hedge against
hot weather I also put two air vents in the front of the new lexan doors
that I put in as well, just in case it gets hot.
Larry, Oregon
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: A Continental A-65 on a Kolb MkIII? Why not? |
Well, it may work out, but a couple of things. It will vibrate a lot more then
any of the alternatives and the kolb cage structure maybe marginal for that. I
considered putting a O-200 Conti on my M3X. But again it may just be too much
for the frame. Ok it is too much for the frame. :-)
Also 65 hp for that much weight not the best choice. I would buy the motor anyway
if the price is real good, but that would be for another project.
Message 25
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Paul, I think you may have the meaning of dielectric backwards. I did for a long
time then finally looked it up and realized I had been doing the opposite of
what I really wanted. :o
"A dielectric, or electrical insulator, is a substance that is highly resistant
to the flow of an electric current."
That plane is looking NICE!
--------
Scott Olendorf
Original Firestar, Rotax 447, Powerfin prop
Schenectady, NY
http://KolbFirestar.googlepages.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=106988#106988
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can see
| synthetic allowing rust, but natural oil?
| Larry, Oregon
Larry:
Those are my thoughts. Don't know for sure. You all can bat it
around and solve the problem.
Interval between flights may play a big role in corrosion of internal
engine parts. I would think the longer they sit without operation,
especially full power to a good operating temp, the more chance for
corrosion. The worst case would be cranking one, letting it run a
short while without bringing it to operating temp. Condensation would
be waiting for that.
john h
mkIII
Message 27
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can see
| synthetic allowing rust, but natural oil?
| Larry, Oregon
I cant remember where I read this,, but a natural mineral oil was better
for corrosion protection against moisture,,,, but synthetic oil was better
at reducing friction wear,,, so I use a mineral oil and synthetic blend.
Like john mentions an engine not run up to temps is more likely to have
condensation and moisture left in the system than an engine run at proper
temps. As to the alcohol or no alcohol in the gas should not make any
difference..... any time you burn a hydrocarbon in an engine it will
produce varing amounts of carbon c carbon monoxide co and carbon
dioxide co2 and h2o as byproducts, so all the moisture in an engine
does not come from the alcohol,,,, it comes from the gas... the alcohol
in the engine will prevent water buildup in the fuel system including the
fuel tank and carb bowls.
Boyd
Message 28
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so all the moisture in an engine
| does not come from the alcohol,,,, it comes from the gas... the
alcohol
| in the engine will prevent water buildup in the fuel system
including the
| fuel tank and carb bowls.
|
| Boyd
Boyd:
I think a major consideration is everything that is pulled through the
carb goes through the crankcase in a two stroke before it gets to the
upper end of the engine.
Will this be a major factor in determining moisture/corrosion of
bearings on the crank shaft?
john h
mkIII
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: A Continental A-65 on a Kolb MkIII? Why not? |
Weight for power, I think is the best reason. You'll have the weight of the
heaviest VW conversion with the power of a 582. Not a good trade, in my
book.
Why not sell the A65 and either add a bit more to it for a new 582 or get a
good used one?
Rick
On 4/14/07, Tom Deiulio <tpd47@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> I am lucky to have access to a Continental A-65-8 for a very reasonable
> price, much less than the cost of a typical Rotax 582, VW conversion, Jabiru
> and the like. I would like to open a discussion thread on the use of this
> engine on the Kolb Mk III Xtra. I realize I will have to design and build my
> own engine mount but don't see too many other challenges I can't live with
> (the -8 version will not accept a starter or alternator, so I hand prop). I
> appreciate any input from the list both for and against. Thanks.
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Girard
"Ya'll drop on in"
takes on a whole new meaning
when you live at the airport.
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