Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:20 AM - Re: Handheld radio, and VOR vs GPS (icrashrc)
2. 04:31 AM - Yahoo! Auto Response (thewanderingwench@yahoo.com)
3. 05:17 AM - Re: GPS and new technologies (Dana Hague)
4. 05:18 AM - Re: Handheld radio, and VOR vs GPS (Thom Riddle)
5. 05:37 AM - Re: GPS and new technologies (Dana Hague)
6. 05:55 AM - Re: Handheld radio, and VOR vs GPS (russ kinne)
7. 05:55 AM - Re: Handheld radio, and VOR vs GPS (Dana Hague)
8. 06:11 AM - Re: GPS and flying in the wind (Larry Bourne)
9. 06:19 AM - Re: Firestar II - 2nd seat - anyone ever use it? (Larry Bourne)
10. 06:30 AM - Re: GPS and new technologies (Larry Bourne)
11. 06:42 AM - Re: GPS and flying in the wind (Vic Peters)
12. 06:59 AM - Re: Re: Mo- Skeeters (Vic Peters)
13. 06:59 AM - Re: GPS and new technologies (John Hauck)
14. 10:20 AM - Re: Mo- Skeeters (Dave Rains)
15. 10:23 AM - Drinks at MV (pat ladd)
16. 10:25 AM - Re: Firestar II - 2nd seat - anyone ever use it? (Dave Rains)
17. 11:23 AM - Re: Drinks at MV (Larry Cottrell)
18. 11:26 AM - Re: Re: Firestar II - 2nd seat - anyone ever use it? (Larry Cottrell)
19. 12:37 PM - Re: Drinks at MV (Dave Rains)
20. 12:51 PM - MkIIIC cg range? (Robert Laird)
21. 02:03 PM - Rope Starter Housing (Terry Davis)
22. 02:10 PM - Re: Ms Dixie update (Paul Petty)
23. 03:16 PM - Re: Drinks at MV (Larry Bourne)
24. 04:07 PM - Re: Firestar II - 2nd seat - anyone ever use it? (planecrazzzy)
25. 04:24 PM - Re: MkIIIC cg range? (planecrazzzy)
26. 05:39 PM - Re: MkIIIC cg range? (by0ung@brigham.net)
27. 06:02 PM - Re: MkIIIC cg range? (Mike Welch)
28. 06:36 PM - Re: MkIIIC cg range? (Richard Pike)
29. 06:38 PM - Re: GPS and new technologies (JetPilot)
30. 08:57 PM - Re: Ms Dixie update (cspoke)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Handheld radio, and VOR vs GPS |
I bought the A24 because it had VOR in it. I haven't even unboxed the unit yet
so i have no idea how well it works. I just thought VOR would be a good backup
to moving map GPS.
d-m-hague(at)comcast.net wrote:
> Something I've been wondering about...
>
> When I learned to fly (too) long ago, GPS didn't exist; VOR (and even ADF
> in a well equipped plane) were the standard. Not having flown a radio
> equipped plane since the mid 1980's, I'm out of touch... now that GPS is
> ubiquitous, does anybody even use VOR any more? Seems the pocket GPS I use
> for backpacking is far more useful than VOR/DME (forget about ILS since to
> me the "R" in IFR stands only for "roads").
>
> I ask because now that I have a Kolb I want to buy a handheld radio,
> probably the Icom A6, and I'm wondering if there's any reason spend the
> extra money for the VOR functions in the A24. (Actually some friends are
> probably buying it for me for designing the winning (and U.S. distance
> record setting!) plane from the last Red Bull Flugtag.)
>
> I'm open to other radio suggestions too, but I like the Icom for the small
> size, an advantage if I want to use it while flying my PPG too.
>
> -Dana
>
> do not archive
> --
> --
> My software never has bugs. It just develops random features.
--------
Scott
www.ill-EagleAviation.com
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=109681#109681
Message 2
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| Subject: | Yahoo! Auto Response |
I'm on an ultralight flight to Texas and will be gone until Memorial Day. Since
I'll be camping along the way, I won't have access to a computer. So don't
expect to get a response until the end of May - unless I can find an Internet
Cafe along the route!
Arty
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: GPS and new technologies |
At 01:17 AM 4/28/2007, Larry Cottrell wrote:
> I guess if you are going to be doing a lot of xcountries to different
> airports it might be handy for a last ditch back up....
Lots of XC's in an Ultrastar? :o
-Dana
--
--
My software never has bugs. It just develops random features.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Handheld radio, and VOR vs GPS |
Dana,
I had a Lowrance 100 GPS that failed on a long(1200 mile) x-country
flight some time ago. As a back up, I keep a Sporty's NAV/COM hand held
radio w/ VOR function in the airplane. It saved the day. Now using a
Lowrance 2000C which is great, but I still keep the Sporty's NAV/COM
handy. At least once a year I force myself to fly a 200+ mile long 3
point course using nothing but a sectional, compass, and watch. I do
not want to loose those skills I acquired back in the 60s, when they
were required.
Most of the older GA airplanes still have VOR and are the primary NAV
device. Some have updated been with old style GPS or Lorans in the
them. Most of the new big buck GA aircraft have at least one very
expensive Garmin panel GPS. I think within 10 years the VORs will be
used very little but that is just a guess. Eventually, the FAA will
stop maintaining them and they will go away by attrition, like the NDBs
are doing today. The last airplane I had with an ADF, I found it nearly
useless, as about 2/3rds of the NDBs I tried to use were out of
service.
Thom in Buffalo
do not archive
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: GPS and new technologies |
At 09:14 PM 4/27/2007, Mike Welch wrote:
>VOR radials are an incredible value to keep you pointed where you want to
>end up. So, in answering your question, yes, I would recommend a VOR
>radio, providing your plane has the room and so forth...
"Room"??? I can't resist, attached is a picture of my "panel". Plenty of
room for a modern radio stack eh? :)
Actually there is room, since the handheld with VOR is exactly the same
size as the one without. But... functionally, I can't see much difference
between following a VOR radial vs. following a GPS course, except that you
can define a GPS course from anywhere to anywhere.
-Dana
P.S. Believe it or not, the previous owners had a radar altimeter on the
bracket you can see above the instrument pod. Really! Well, sort of. One
of the guys (who never flew the US) had trouble judging the landing flare
while flying dual in a Quick MX, so they bought one of those radar rangers
made for garages (green, yellow, and red lights to judge your distance to
the wall in a garage) and mounted it in the plane, with the sensor pointed
straight down. Yellow light means it's time to flare, I guess... dunno how
it really worked.
do not archive
--
--
My software never has bugs. It just develops random features.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Handheld radio, and VOR vs GPS |
About ADF's - most convenient for listening to music or the ball game
on commercial radio stations. Also very easy to track to them . I
have an old book that listed freq, power & location of a thousand
radio broadcast stations in the US. Used them much more often than
NDB's. In Canada there are so few VOR's that an ADF is much more
useful. The ADF system may be an oldie but it's a goodie! And much
better range than the VOR's.
Russ in CT
On Apr 28, 2007, at 8:18 AM, Thom Riddle wrote:
>
> Dana,
>
> I had a Lowrance 100 GPS that failed on a long(1200 mile) x-country
> flight some time ago. As a back up, I keep a Sporty's NAV/COM hand
> held radio w/ VOR function in the airplane. It saved the day. Now
> using a Lowrance 2000C which is great, but I still keep the
> Sporty's NAV/COM handy. At least once a year I force myself to fly
> a 200+ mile long 3 point course using nothing but a sectional,
> compass, and watch. I do not want to loose those skills I acquired
> back in the 60s, when they were required.
>
> Most of the older GA airplanes still have VOR and are the primary
> NAV device. Some have updated been with old style GPS or Lorans in
> the them. Most of the new big buck GA aircraft have at least one
> very expensive Garmin panel GPS. I think within 10 years the VORs
> will be used very little but that is just a guess. Eventually, the
> FAA will stop maintaining them and they will go away by attrition,
> like the NDBs are doing today. The last airplane I had with an ADF,
> I found it nearly useless, as about 2/3rds of the NDBs I tried to
> use were out of service.
>
> Thom in Buffalo
> do not archive
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Handheld radio, and VOR vs GPS |
At 08:18 AM 4/28/2007, Thom Riddle wrote:
>...At least once a year I force myself to fly a 200+ mile long 3 point
>course using nothing but a sectional, compass, and watch. I do not want to
>loose those skills I acquired back in the 60s, when they were required...
They're not still required? =shocked
>...they will go away by attrition, like the NDBs are doing today. The last
>airplane I had with an ADF, I found it nearly useless, as about 2/3rds of
>the NDBs I tried to use were out of service...
Back in the 1970's, I always tried to rent a plane with an ADF, as I found
it quite useful... to listen to music while flying. Of course, back then
AM radio was still mostly music, instead of talk show drivel. I still have
a vivid memory of flying a rented C-172 about 9,000' directly over the St.
Louis TCA while listening to "Sounds of Silence" on the ADF... and snapping
a picture of an F-4 Phantom a few thousand feet below me.
-Dana
do not archive
--
--
My software never has bugs. It just develops random features.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: GPS and flying in the wind |
I, too, have the Garmin 196, and tho' I haven't used it too much in the air
- just in rentals - it seems to do a very good job. I do use it a lot while
on my cross-country driving trips, and it lives on the center console of the
Diesel Dodge while traveling. You should be aware, for this use, that the
MapSource database is very old and out of date. The freeway systems of
Baltimore, MD and Los Angeles, CA come to mind, as do numerous attempts to
locate a facility such as a campground. Many times, it's taken me way off
into the tules to a vacant lot. It works well, and I really like it, but
now I back it up with a map. Lar.
On 4/27/07, boyd <by0ung@brigham.net> wrote:
>
>
> I have a Lowrance 2000c that I am extremely happy with.
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> I have used the garmin 196 for a couple years,,,, when I bought it I
> also
> bought the city select map source... which gives turn by turn
> directions,,,, on a trip through the NW we went through Portland freeway
> system,,,, after navigating the maze, my wife turned to me and said
> "that
> thing just paid for itself." And it is even better when in the plane.
>
> Boyd
>
> Do not archive.
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Firestar II - 2nd seat - anyone ever use it? |
Comfort ?? Marginal ?? What comfort ?? My chest was the support for
Larry's seat back, and he's a husky guy. I was able to move my head, and to
a limited extent, my arms. When I got a cramp in my hip, I almost went
nuts, 'cause I couldn't move. The back seat of the Arizona Bald Eagle's
Firestar was almost as bad........but I thoroughly enjoyed both flights, and
the discomfort was well worth it. I'll even do it again......:-) BTW, for
the weight question, I weigh nearly 200 lbs. Lar.
On 4/27/07, John H Murphy <jhm9812@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> Does anyone with a Firestar II ever use the rear jump seat? If so, do you
> limit the passenger to a small child?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=109665#109665
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: GPS and new technologies |
I learned to use the VOR system when I learned to fly in '94, and used it
for real when navigating a Cessna 172 from Port Angeles, WA to Weippe, ID,
(70 miles E of Lewiston, ID) a trip of close to 500 miles. I found that the
VOR's only work well when you're at altitude, and then only the closer ones
were dependable. I mostly flew at 1,000 - 2,500 ft AGL on that trip, and
*sometimes* the VOR worked, but I quickly learned to listen VEry closely to
the Morse Code identifier for each station. There's only a limited number
of frequencies available to them, and you need to be very sure exactly which
station you're tracking. My girlfriend was with me, and I showed her how to
use the system to help keep her interested. (central and eastern WA state
is booooring) I think I still have that old sectional somewhere. It's got
pencil lines going every which way that she drew while trying to figure it
out. What Fun ! ! ! Lar.
On 4/27/07, Larry Cottrell <lcottrell@fmtcblue.com> wrote:
>
>
> I guess the original
> > question basically came down to "is there any reason to spend extra
> money
> > for a radio with VOR in the era of GPS?"
> >
> > -Dana
> > do not archive
> >
> I guess if you are going to be doing a lot of xcountries to different
> airports it might be handy for a last ditch back up. I had the same choice
> when I bought my ICOM and elected to do without. I have not ever been
> sorry.
> For the type of flying I do most of the time it would be worthless.
> Perhaps
> if I had something that went a lot faster than my Kolb it might have some
> value. The flight instructor that I had when I was flying a 150 didn't
> even
> bother to teach it any more. I think that I will stick with sectionals and
> my 196.
> Larry, Oregon
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: GPS and flying in the wind |
Lowrance comes with the entire US 6CD's
I have used the garmin 196 for a couple years,,,, when I bought it I
also
bought the city select map source... which gives turn by turn
directions,,,, on a trip through the NW we went through Portland
freeway
Vic
Maine
912ul Extra
do not archive
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Mo- Skeeters |
"Com-0n ,bring yur squashers, we be ready fer yu! bet you carry a
sling shot for protection, or maybe a garlic neclace. Aint scaeeeerd of
no kolb drivers...
Super Skeeter
(got more hours in the beast than you, I'll bet)
the T27 Alpha Pilot"
We don't call em slingshots, we call em 44 magnum,357etc.
Like to wait for 2 or 3 Skeeters to line up so as not to waste ammo.
Whats that A stand for?
I'll have you Know I have about 3000 hrs. in my Kolb since 1993.
Ofcourse none of those are in the air!
Vic
Maine
912ul Extra
do not archive
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: GPS and new technologies |
Morning Gang:
James Tripp, FSII, and I, mkIII, flew 400 miles yesterday. We made it
to Tuscaloosa, AL, and back with our trusty GPS's. Ground speed was
from 45 mph flying NW to 105 flying SE. Airspeed was 65 mph.
We flew over to the University of Alabama to show our airplanes to the
AF ROTC students. Was a beautiful flight.
I landed at Centerville, AL, to make a phone call. When I taxiied up
to the hanger row, I saw a FSII. A few minutes later the owner drove
up. He was surprised we were flying in "all that wind". ??? Said he
never flew after 0900 because of winds. I told him to get more time
in his bird and he would be more comfortable with the wind. Said he
had 60 hours, but did not like getting knocked around.
Don't reckon we would ever get anywhere if we did not fly in the wind.
I've been flying with GPS since 1993, when I bought my first, a Garmin
55AVD. I did the 1994 Alaska flight with it. Did the 2001 flight to
Barrow, AK, with a 95XL, and the 48 day flight to Alaska in 2004 was
completed with the aid of my Garmin 196. The 196 now has "obstruction
clearance" which is a plus for me. That is where I fly the most.
I also use the 196 for land travel, and when I get a new boat will use
it for marine as well.
Take care,
john h
mkIII
912ULS 17.0 hours
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Mo- Skeeters |
"we call em 44 magnum,357etc".
We call those "girls guns" around here. Anything smaller than a 45-70 is for training
kids. However, on close examination of my rather extensive supply of
ammo, I have over 2,000 rds of federal premium .357, and I don't even own a gun
in that caliber. The things we collect. I carry a Colt 1911 for my duty weapon,
and a old star pd for backup.
Regards,
the most irritating SKEETER!
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=109722#109722
Message 15
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no one's ever said anything about someone having a brew in the evening,
either. >>
Hi, Listers going to MV.
The above is a shocking quote from Big Lar.
You mean no one has a BBQ and a couple of beers organised.? I find that
very surprising. Is it too hot or windy or cold or something. I had
assumed that a get together with a beer or two or a jug of margaritas
was the natural outcome of gathering more than one ultralight flyer in
one place. It certainly would be in the UK
Tell me it isn`t so!
In shock
Pat
do not archive
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Firestar II - 2nd seat - anyone ever use it? |
Will's butt has gotten so big, he uses both seats in his Firestar.
Bzzzzzzzzzzz
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=109723#109723
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Drinks at MV |
"You mean no one has a BBQ and a couple of beers organised.? I find
that very surprising. Is it too hot or windy or cold or something. I
had assumed that a get together with a beer or two or a jug of
margaritas was the natural outcome of gathering more than one ultralight
flyer in one place. It certainly would be in the UK"
Well Pat, It seems that you are well aware of how things should be,
since you guys have been doing it (BC) and I am sure there is some
ritual regarding the actual process involved. Since this country is in
it infancy, and therefore, ignorant, so to speak. I would be glad, on
behalf of the few reprobates that still drink, to have you show us
"heathens" the proper way to celebrate having lived through another
glorious day of "Kolbing". I might even tell a few of my soon to be
world famous stories. With enough lubrication of course. ;-)
Larry, Oregon
Please do not archive
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Firestar II - 2nd seat - anyone ever use it? |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Rains" <RangeFlyer72@yahoo.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 11:24 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Firestar II - 2nd seat - anyone ever use it?
>
> Will's butt has gotten so big, he uses both seats in his Firestar.
> Bzzzzzzzzzzz
> do not archive
You know I don't remember you being so frisky the last time I met you. I may
have to bring a test kit with me to see what you have been taking.
Apparently the quinine required to hang around with that many skeeters is
having an adverse effect.
Leaving in two days!
Larry, Oregon
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Drinks at MV |
Guys, make sure you bring your own poison. There are no alcohol sales on the reservation.
Skeeter requires after flying refreshment, and will be bringing his.
Also, my plane will be available for needed runs to Page.
Skeeter.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=109733#109733
Message 20
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| Subject: | MkIIIC cg range? |
What is the "manufacturers cg range" for a Kolb MkIIIC? (And I hope this
isn't one of those, "...but YOU'RE the manufacturer..." kind of deals,
because I didn't build it.)
If there isn't one, would those of you with MkIIIC's please tell me you CG
range that you use? Thanks!
-- Robert
Message 21
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| Subject: | Rope Starter Housing |
I was talking to a friend at the airport this morning after flying my
Firestar. He flies a gyro (yes, I feel the same way!!!) with a 582 with
200 hr. I happened to look at the rope starter housing due to the
recent thread on that. It just sits there in the open at eye level.
The "axle" of the housing had broken completely loose in a nice clean
circle around the weld. It turned and moved in and out as the rope was
pulled. He said he had heard some squealing sounds that he couldn't
identify lately. He's kind of a joker, but that did sober him up a bit.
Keep your eyes open on those preflights.
Terry Davis
FS 1, 503DCDI, Powerfin 3 blade.
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Ms Dixie update |
Gang,
Saturday! Been bolting, drilling, moving, and hard at work since 6am! I rolled
Ms. Dixie out of the shop into the sunlight for the first time today!
http://groups.msn.com/AerialWorld/kolbra012.msnw?Page=5
WOW what a differance it makes outside. Kenneth Reeves and his very supporting
wife came to visit me today and he left on fire to get his Kolbra up to speed.
I am posting this on a break and going back to wrap up the wing tip strobes and
start the vinyl checkerboard wing tips. With any luck I might get her out tomorrow
and put the wings on and fire up the 912UL for some taxi but I make no
deadlines or promices.
Outside I noticed how skinny the Kolbra really is.
Side note: Mark German John Hauck and Uncle Craig...If you get this post call my
cell phone please. My old phone went to the bottom of a 12' deep pool wednesday
and I lost all your numbers. [Rolling Eyes]
601-480-9979
ps. If the above link does not work for anyone and you want the photos E-Mail me
off list or here glad to share!
do not archive
--------
Paul Petty
Kolbra #12
Ms Dixie
Final assembly!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=109741#109741
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Drinks at MV |
BBQ's. Nope. In the past Arizona Dave & Eve put on a big feed at their
motor home for everybody, and it was great. Not gonna be the
same. Lar. Do not Archive.
On 4/28/07, Larry Cottrell <lcottrell@fmtcblue.com> wrote:
>
>
> "You mean no one has a BBQ and a couple of beers organised.? I find that
> very surprising. Is it too hot or windy or cold or something. I had assumed
> that a get together with a beer or two or a jug of margaritas was the
> natural outcome of gathering more than one ultralight flyer in one place. It
> certainly would be in the UK"
>
> Well Pat, It seems that you are well aware of how things should be, since
> you guys have been doing it (BC) and I am sure there is some ritual
> regarding the actual process involved. Since this country is in it infancy,
> and therefore, ignorant, so to speak. I would be glad, on behalf of the few
> reprobates that still drink, to have you show us "heathens" the proper way
> to celebrate having lived through another glorious day of "Kolbing". I might
> even tell a few of my soon to be world famous stories. With enough
> lubrication of course. ;-)
> Larry, Oregon
> Please do not archive
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Firestar II - 2nd seat - anyone ever use it? |
That's where "Jaz" rides....
Gotta Fly...
Mike & "Jaz" in MN
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Do Not Archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=109757#109757
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Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: MkIIIC cg range? |
The Generic number is 20 -30 % of the Cord Line @ AOA
Gotta Fly...
Mike & "Jaz" in MN
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Do Not Archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=109759#109759
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: MkIIIC cg range? |
-----Original message-----
From: "Robert Laird" rlaird@cavediver.com
Subject: Kolb-List: MkIIIC cg range?
> What is the "manufacturers cg range" for a Kolb MkIIIC? (And I hope
this
> isn't one of those, "...but YOU'RE the manufacturer..." kind of
deals,
> because I didn't build it.)
>
> If there isn't one, would those of you with MkIIIC's please tell me
you CG
> range that you use? Thanks!
>
> -- Robert
>
>
16 1/2 inches to 23.1 inchesfrom the leading edge or 25% to 35%
of wing cord
boyd
Message 27
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| Subject: | MkIIIC cg range? |
Robert,
Although I don't have the specific number for you, 20-30% is too broad.
(In other words---no help). No offence to Mike, but he was just throwing
out the basic CG range for ALL airfoils. Hang in there for the exact
number you're looking for! Ask again, if you need to.
_________________________________________________________________
Download Messenger. Join the im Initiative. Help make a difference today.
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Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: MkIIIC cg range? |
Went and looked at my plans, printed circa 1990.
Greater than 20% and less than 37%.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: GPS and new technologies |
A VOR is a waste of space and money. A GPS will do 10 times what a VOR will do
and do it better, more reliably, and cheaper.
If you must have a back up your GPS, you would be better off to back it up with
a second GPS.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
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Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Ms Dixie update |
Paul,
Sure looks good,,,Seeing all your pictures makes me even more motivated to finish
my Xtra. I hope that mine ends up loking as nice as your Kolbra.
--------
Craig Spoke
Mark 111 Xtra (in the works)
Lillian, AL
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=109789#109789
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