Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:54 AM - Re: Re: FireFly prop & others (Dana Hague)
2. 05:17 AM - visibility (robert bean)
3. 06:19 AM - Re: Monument Valley 2007 (jimhefner)
4. 06:36 AM - Re: The whole truth....Firefly Prop (jimhefner)
5. 06:52 AM - Re: Re: FireFly prop & others (Jim Dunn)
6. 08:59 AM - John Hauck Update (Travis Brown (Kolb Aircraft))
7. 09:24 AM - Re: FireFly prop & others (JetPilot)
8. 09:33 AM - Re: Re: FireFly prop & others (Dana Hague)
9. 12:11 PM - MV (ghaley@wt.net)
10. 01:54 PM - Update #5 - In the Air Again (long) (TheWanderingWench)
11. 04:49 PM - Buildiing Plans (Mike KIng)
12. 06:06 PM - Re: Re: FireFly prop & others (HShack@aol.com)
13. 10:10 PM - Re: Kolb Lazer prototype on Ebay (Rick Nelson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: FireFly prop & others |
At 11:01 PM 5/15/2007, Eugene Zimmerman wrote:
>
>Performance is maximized by minimizing performance robbing drag
>created by the wing tip vortices. A long high aspect wing has better
>performance than a shorter bi-wing because the bi-wing has twice as
>many drag creating wing tip vortices.
Actually it's not the wing tip vortices. A biplane is less efficient
because of interference between the wings; the closer together the more
interference. Similarly, the close together the prop blades are (i.e. 3
blade vs. 2 blade) the more interference.
Wing top vortices are part of induced drag, which depends on aspect
ratio. If you could build a biplane with the same aspect ratio for each
wing as the sailplane, AND get them sufficiently far apart for no
interference, you'd get the same performance... but you CAN'T get them far
enough apart, practically speaking, and then there's the drag of supporting
structure, etc...
-Dana
--
--
Okay, who put a "stop payment" on my reality check?
Message 2
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(subject formerly doors)
Old BB's social life and gardening work keeps him from making rapid
progress.
-but a little gets done occasionally. Someone inquired about the
possibility of
my plane losing some of it's Kolb view. I sat in the passenger seat
with the template
pattern of the lower skin taped in place today. What you would see
at that angle
would be your legs, knees, arms and elbows. They are very rigid so
far and should
be more so once the outer shell goes on.
Note BB's concession to modernity: the $99 Garmin Etrex :)
DSCN1127.JPG
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Monument Valley 2007 |
Steven, John H.
I'm glad to see you guys connected and made good progress the first day, even with
weather delay. Hope to see you at Gouldings mid morning Friday. I plan
to be wheels up from 57AZ at 4:45am (MST). I should be at P14 (Holbrook) a little
before 7am. The FBO is coming in early for a fuel up and I should be in
MV by 10:30 (MDT) or so.
Weather looks like it will be good in MV during our stay. See ya'll soon!
--------
Jim Hefner
Kolbless in Tucson :(
Do Not Archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=113133#113133
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: The whole truth....Firefly Prop |
Stephen, no sweat.... just poking fun at you. The GT400 has a 30' wing and is
a heavy, draggy plane compared to a FF. The FF is like a sports car while a GT400
is more like a station wagon.... :) Even with 10 more HP you outperformed
it. Think they have sail cloth vs Stits covering on the wings, which is a lot
of drag difference right there. Enjoy your Firefly! They are a real fun plane
to fly!
--------
Jim Hefner
C-150F N150HF
Do Not Archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=113137#113137
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: FireFly prop & others |
Then why is a high-bipass turbofan so efficient? These are found on
747-767 and are just a whole bunch of ducted short propeller blades.
At 11:01 PM 5/15/2007, Eugene Zimmerman wrote:
>
Similarly, the close together the prop blades are (i.e. 3
blade vs. 2 blade) the more interference.
-Dana
Message 6
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| Subject: | John Hauck Update |
Good morning list
I just had A call from John Hauck @ 11:42 this morning. He and Steve Green
are in Muscogee OK. . They were at the Hat Box Airport named by Charles
Lindberg.
This was A fuel stop. He said everything was going great.
They are planning to make it to Tucumcari NM. tonight
Travis @ kolb
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 7:55 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Monument Valley 2007
>
> Morning Gang:
>
> Tuesday morning finally got here at 0430. ;-(
>
> Got the truck loaded with all my gear, airplane gas, and all the other
> little stuff that needs to go on a long cross country flight in a
> Kolb. Soon as I finish up my coffee, I will head out for Gantt
> International Airport, a mere 3 miles of twisty, country, Alabama back
> roads away.
>
> Weather is good here, but will be encoutering thunderstorms and rain
> along my flight route to Conway, AR, just north of Little Rock, and
> beyond.
>
> Steven Green is departing Athens, TN, this morning and will meet me at
> Conway. If we still feel good, we will continue on to Mena, AR, to
> RON. If not, we will RON, Conway.
>
> Expect to spend tomorrow night in the Albuquerque, NM, area. That
> will set us up for an arrival at MV around noon on Thursday.
>
> Hope everyone has a safe, fun flight out and back.
>
> See ya'll there,
>
> john h
> mkIII
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: FireFly prop & others |
jim wrote:
>
>
> Then why is a high-bipass turbofan so efficient? These are found on
> 747-767 and are just a whole bunch of ducted short propeller blades.
>
> -Dana
A high bybpas turbofan is NOT efficient. If you look at a jet compared to a prop
plane, there is no comparison in in efficiency, the prop wins every time.
Where did you get the idea that a turbofan is so efficient , by comparing it
to a turbojet, which is even less efficient [Laughing]
It is well known that a 2 blade prop is more efficient than a 3 blade. The problem
is that there is not always room for a long 2 blade prop, or noise is more
of an issue etc. etc. But the 2 blade is more efficient.
If someone outclimbed someone else with a 3 blade prop, making the assumption that
it was because of having a 3 bladed prop is just dumb. Ever think it could
have been variations in the airplane, pilot technique, or a hundred other possible
factors ???
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=113164#113164
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: FireFly prop & others |
At 09:52 AM 5/16/2007, Jim Dunn wrote:
>
>Then why is a high-bipass turbofan so efficient? These are found on
>747-767 and are just a whole bunch of ducted short propeller blades.
Well, that's a different situation. You can't really compare that to a
prop on a low speed aircraft; you have to compare it to a conventional
turbofan or a pure jet engine... and it IS larger than those. Also a
ducted fan is very different; the duct eliminates the tip vortices so the
aspect ratio isn't as significant. Ducted fans (and jets for that matter)
aren't very efficient at low airspeeds.
-Dana
--
--
Okay, who put a "stop payment" on my reality check?
Message 9
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All you guys and gals headed for Monument Valley have a good one. I hate
that I can't make it this year. It looks like you are going to have a
great trip.
Gary H. in Houston
Kolb Mark III
Message 10
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| Subject: | Update #5 - In the Air Again (long) |
"Since we last encountered our fair #######..."
Nope, that just doesn't work. Not since I've been flying and camping, nose burned
and peeling, helmet hairdo...anyway, Larry Cottrell and I ARE back in the
air again and on our way to Monument Valley. When you last heard from me it
was Friday, May 4 and we had decided (due to severe weather conditions,) to leave
our planes in Casa Grande, AZ and drive to San Antonio, so Larry and Karen
could visit with his brother and I could meet Norm (who was driving) at our
friends north of S.A.
The drive was strenuous (3 dogs, 3 adults, car crammed with gear,) but we made
it after 17 hrs., straight through and arrived Saturday morning, May 5. We
all had a great time at our respective places of visiting, and on Saturday, May
12 we reconvened, got in the car and headed back to Casa Grande to our planes.
Same drive but more challenging since the Cottrells' pointer was now in heat,
and their male Brittany spaniel was very, very interested.
We got back to Casa Grande Sunday afternoon, checked out our planes, spent the
night, and took off early Monday morning. The air was absolutely perfect -
totally smooth with a slight tailwind. Roger Lee (Tuscon Kolber) had told me
about a very good route around Tuscon and we followed it. We were hoping to make
Las Cruces by evening, and things were looking pretty good as we flew, a little
bumpy in spots, but very tolerable flying. We flew past Deming, NM - only
45 miles from Las Cruces - only to see massive thunderheads directly ahead.
Karen radioed saying there was a huge thunderstorm in front of us, so we turned
around, landed at Deming, and spent the night there.
Tuesday morning, looking at our projected route, we decided to fly north to Truth
or Consequences instead of east to Las Cruces. My brakes were leaking fluid,
so we spent 2 hours doing a "field repair" with the help of a guy at the
airport who had absolutely everything as far as tools and supplies. It was a
really smooth flight from Deming to T or C, where we refueled. From T or C to
Socorro, NM was really, really bumpy, with a 20+ mph headwind. A lot of work,
not scary, just work. Flying past Socorro the wind suddenly shifted and we
got a smooth tailwind! We landed at Belen, NM and the wind was rising, so we
decided to camp at the airport for the night. Didn't get much sleep - from 9:30
- 10:00 p.m. someone's car alarm was sounding, and there were train whistles,
peacocks and mockingbirds all night. (Don't tell any of us that birds don't
call in the dark!)
This morning we left at 0-dark-thirty, had an incredible (20+ mph) tailwind and
made Grants, NM without incident. Quick refuel and lifted off from the taxiway
(with the airport manager's permission, since the wind was so strong that
it would have been almost impossible to taxi to the runway.) The tailwind was
still there and we were doing 90-100 mph over the ground on the leg to Gallup,
NM. Outside of Gallup we saw the first of the red rimrock for which this area
is famous. Landed into a stiff headwind and dropped like a rock with a great
landing - then it suddenly got squirrely on the ground and I did a terrific
ground loop right off the runway!
Thunderheads building up and wind getting even worse, so we decided to spend
the night here in Gallup and finish our flight to Monument Valley tomorrow. We're
sharing a huge hangar with a Cessna 172 - very cozy.
Will send the next update hopefully from MV tomorrow p.m. Our route will be
from Gallup to Window Rock to Chinle to Kayenta, AZ to Monument Valley.
Arty
www.LessonsFromTheEdge.com
"Life's a daring adventure or nothing"
Helen Keller
"I refuse to tip toe through life just to arrive safely at death."
Message 11
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Hello
I have a FireFly project and some pages of the drawings are missing. Can anyone
E-Mail a copy or fax a scan to me. The missing drawings are sheets 12, 18 and
40.
Thank you
Mike
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=113218#113218
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: FireFly prop & others |
In a message dated 5/16/2007 12:25:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
orcabonita@hotmail.com writes:
If someone outclimbed someone else with a 3 blade prop, making the assumption
that it was because of having a 3 bladed prop is just dumb. Ever think it
could have been variations in the airplane, pilot technique, or a hundred other
possible factors ???
Mike
It must be me you're calling dumb. I never said it was the 3 bladed prop
that allowed me to outclimb them- just that I did, using certain parameters,ie.
brand, # blades, & length of prop, & ratio of PSRU.
By the way, I also usually burn less gas than them on a given trip.
Howard Shackleford
FS II
SC
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb Lazer prototype on Ebay |
I'm the guy who bought that Lazer prototype. :D
Is there any chance that one of you fine people has plans, blueprints, or at least
some information on the Lazer?
I was surprised that the fuselage is in such good shape. The wings, however, are
just a tangle of tubing around some spars.
Rick Nelson
Huntsville, AL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=113261#113261
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