---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 06/05/07: 21 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:01 AM - Re: Re: UK Regs (pat ladd) 2. 03:12 AM - Re: Monument Valley (pat ladd) 3. 03:53 AM - Re: Re: UK Regs (Dana Hague) 4. 04:59 AM - Re: Re: UK Regs (pat ladd) 5. 04:59 AM - Re: FIRE!!!!! (ropermike) 6. 05:41 AM - Re: FIRE!!!!! (David Lucas) 7. 06:10 AM - Re: After Market Crap...FIRE! (olendorf) 8. 06:12 AM - Re: FIRE!!!!! (WillUribe@aol.com) 9. 06:21 AM - Re: FIRE!!!!! (olendorf) 10. 06:37 AM - Re: Firestar for sale (robert bean) 11. 06:44 AM - Re: Re: FIRE!!!!! (russ kinne) 12. 06:54 AM - Re: fire!!! (Arty) (Arksey@aol.com) 13. 09:14 AM - MV2007 (John Hauck) 14. 12:38 PM - Re: MV2007 (russ kinne) 15. 01:37 PM - Re: MV2007 (John Hauck) 16. 02:08 PM - Re: Ms Dixie update (Paul Petty) 17. 02:24 PM - Re: Re: Ms Dixie update (John Hauck) 18. 05:39 PM - Re: MV2007 (WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com) 19. 05:51 PM - Re: MV2007 (John Hauck) 20. 08:21 PM - Re: MV2007 (Larry Cottrell) 21. 09:21 PM - Wings needed (Mark Shimei) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:01:05 AM PST US From: "pat ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: UK Regs On the 30th of April the CAA issued an exemption,>> Hi George, that looks like the same stuff that I was referring to but I [picked it up from another source. Incidentally, do you have to have a Noise Certificate in the US.? I bet you don`t Pat ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:12:09 AM PST US From: "pat ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Monument Valley NO ONE came so close to going,>> Hi Mike Good try. Hard luck. Sounds as though the fact that we only made contact over the phone was a plus. If I had been able to actually call you wouldn`t have got even close to going to MV. I had no idea that when I rang you, beer in hand, from the quiet of a log cabin in Zion Canyon, that you were rushing round like the proverbial blue assed fly trying to get ready to fly. You will have the opportunity to make it next year, take it. . I, unfortunately will not. Maybe in a couple of years I might make Homers fly in. Something to look forward to. Cheers Pat. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:53:14 AM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: UK Regs At 06:00 AM 6/5/2007, pat ladd wrote: > >that looks like the same stuff that I was referring to but I [picked it up >from another source. > >Incidentally, do you have to have a Noise Certificate in the US.? I bet >you don`t I'm guessing that your exemption is similar to the "foot launch exemption" that your PPG and PHG guys have been operating under for years now? Nope, no noise certificate required here. No minimum altitude, either, under Part 103 :) ... though an ultralight can't fly over any "congested area" at ANY altitude. -Dana -- -- Most politicians aren't crooks, but the ones that are sure are making the other 10 percent look bad. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:59:18 AM PST US From: "pat ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: UK Regs 'm guessing that your exemption is similar to the "foot launch exemption" that your PPG and PHG guys have been operating under for years now? Nope, no noise certificate required here. No minimum altitude, either, under Part 103 :) ... though an ultralight can't fly over any "congested area" at ANY altitude.>> Hi Dana, I wouldn`t know about that. I turned my back firmly against any `foot launching` after breaking my leg hang gliding many years ago. This Single Seat Deregulation is a whole new ball game for us and as I am not going to change my Xtra in for a singhle seater I have not been following the details. Re noise cert. A new type of plane or new plane /engine combination HAS to have a noise test carried out.This certification then applies to all similar set ups. As the new SSDereg. is expected to produce a series of different planes/combinations a Noise Cert. will have to be issued to each one. We think our noise levels are difficult to get down to but the Germans rules are a lot tougher. We have no lower height limit except the usual `congested area` rule. Some countries, Holland I think, have maximum height rules, some have minimum height rules. It is a mess which is gradually being sorted out now that we are all members of the European Union. (Oh Yeah!) Basically we operate under exactly the same rules as GA which seems pretty sensible to me. Why complicate things? Pat ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:59:18 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: FIRE!!!!! From: "ropermike" Thanks for all your advice, well, allmost all of it!....I have decided that I will buy me another "Mr Funnel" and keep filling the way I'm filling now except I will make a simple ground wire with three clamps and connect the nozzel handle, jug, and funnel before I start. I will also have a fire extinguisher handy..........As for Blumax, I dont appreciate being called a dumbass but I'm not gonna lose any sleep over it! Since your into bumperstickers, I've got one for you and it fits you perfectlly! Jesus loves you! But everyone else thinks your an ASSHOLE! -------- The next best thing to playing and winning is playing and losing!...Mike Hillger Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=116609#116609 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:41:42 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: FIRE!!!!! From: "David Lucas" Re grounding and sparks, I can recall a briefing some years back where the lecturer told us that when you fill your car at the gas station as you put the nozzle into the filler point that more often than not a small spark is created as the two items come together. The saving grace is that; A) the spark is very weak and B) the fumes in the nozzle area are too rich for the fuel to ignite. Technicaly speaking each vehicle should be grounded with a ground wire to Earth and the Pump before refueling starts but from a practical point of view nobody would do it and the risk is so small it is accepted. Sobering thought eh ? David. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=116618#116618 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:10:06 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: After Market Crap...FIRE! From: "olendorf" Russ says "BlumaxI really don't think any of the Kolb-ers need, or want, you superb advice on just about everything. Esp. with your choice of adjectives. How 'bout going away?" Bluemax, I kinda liked it. [Laughing] -------- Scott Olendorf Original Firestar, Rotax 447, Powerfin prop Schenectady, NY http://KolbFirestar.googlepages.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=116622#116622 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:12:35 AM PST US From: WillUribe@aol.com Subject: Kolb-List: Re: FIRE!!!!! _Click here: YouTube - Gas Station Fire With Rescue_ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvSr7vyXXo4) Hi Mike, Happy to hear no harm was done, unlike the man on this video. Regards, Will Uribe El Paso, TX FireStar II N4GU -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ropermike Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 7:07 AM Subject: Kolb-List: FIRE!!!!! Hello fellow Kolbers. I read your forum regularly and rarely have anything to contribute but I want to tell you what happened to me Saturday! ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:21:22 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: FIRE!!!!! From: "olendorf" I saw a guy pouring from a red plastic gas can into his Minimax and it caught on fire. The guy had the sense to put the gas cap back on his airplane tank really fast and no more fire. I was impressed. -------- Scott Olendorf Original Firestar, Rotax 447, Powerfin prop Schenectady, NY http://KolbFirestar.googlepages.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=116625#116625 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:37:09 AM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Firestar for sale That sure is a nice little airplane for the price. If I didn't already have a plane I'd consider it, AND woulda saved about 10 bizzillion hours of building. :) Speaking of which, I've been flying with the new doors and really love it. It doesn't have that strange uncomfortable sensation at fast cruise anymore, I do believe that I can actually unfold a sectional without it being sucked overboard. Maybe even faster now but that has yet to be measured. BB, MkIII, suzuki G10 with antique VW carb, powerfin, ....and doors do not archive ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:44:19 AM PST US From: russ kinne Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: FIRE!!!!! RIGHT ON , ROPERMIKE !! On Jun 5, 2007, at 7:53 AM, ropermike wrote: > > Thanks for all your advice, well, allmost all of it!....I have > decided that I will buy me another "Mr Funnel" and keep filling the > way I'm filling now except I will make a simple ground wire with > three clamps and connect the nozzel handle, jug, and funnel before > I start. I will also have a fire extinguisher handy..........As for > Blumax, I dont appreciate being called a dumbass but I'm not gonna > lose any sleep over it! Since your into bumperstickers, I've got > one for you and it fits you perfectlly! Jesus loves you! But > everyone else thinks your an ASSHOLE! > > -------- > The next best thing to playing and winning is playing and > losing!...Mike Hillger > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=116609#116609 > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:54:12 AM PST US From: Arksey@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: fire!!! (Arty) In a message dated 6/4/2007 10:26:05 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, thewanderingwench@yahoo.com writes: You write that you fill your 6 gal. gas can at the gas station and add oil, and later run the entire mixture through Mr. Funnel. I've been told that the Mr. Funnel manufacturer states that it works only with gasoline - not with a gas-oil mixture Hello Arty, I thought the same as you, that gas mixed with oil would ruin the mr funnel. I met George Alexander this last winter in Florida, i got the fueling method from him and now I see he posted the answer to your question. So you got it from the horse's mouth. It works well for me and makes me feel like I have done the best I can to protect myself from fuel contamination. Thanks again George. Arty also thanks to you and all the rest for the interesting info on the trip to MV. Good for you for making the trip.... jim swan firestar ll michigan do not archive ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:14:27 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Kolb-List: MV2007 Morning Gang: A few photos of my recent flight to MV2007 and beyond. I'll try to do a couple a day to give you some idea of the flight. Steven Green, mkIII, just west of Russellville, AR, where we spent the night in the FBO, which was opened up for us to use, plus the courtesy car. In the back ground is a nuclear power plant. Gives one some idea of how large the plant is compared to an aircraft with a 30 foot wing span. http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV2007/%20_001.JPG My early morning flight at MV: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV2007/%20_015.JPG Got to have an early morning silhouette: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV2007/%20_031.JPG Lake Powell from a Kolb: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV2007/%20_045.JPG Interesting rock formations in Southern Utah or Northern Arizona: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV2007/%20_051.JPG Bonneville Salt Flats, Utah, is rather salty: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV2007/%20_068.JPG The Kolbra and mkIII resting near the black line, Bonneville: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV2007/%20_070.JPG John Williamson and the Kolbra on short, short final, McDermott, Oregon: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV2007/%20_087.JPG A quick stop off at the Alvord Dessert prior to arrival at the Rock House: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV2007/%20_098.JPG Fun flying on the Alvord: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV2007/%20_112.JPG John W flying the Owyhee River Canyon: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV2007/%20_116.JPG John W taking off from the Owyhee Reservoir State Airport, Oregon: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV2007/%20_137.JPG Flying from the Rock House over to Rome, OR, for fuel, auto fuel that is: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV2007/%20_146.JPG Fill'er up: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV2007/%20_147.JPG Ha! I beat the 18 wheeler to the gas pump: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV2007/%20_148.JPG Three musketeers on the Alvord, John W, Larry C, and Miss P'fer: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV2007/%20_151.JPG Home of Larry and Karen Cottrell, the Rock House in SE Oregon dessert: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV2007/%20_160.JPG I theenk I got mooned. Three of the four musketeers, now includes Roger Hankins, Grants Pass, OR: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV2007/%20_169.JPG http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV2007/%20_172.JPG Miss P'fer (P fer plane) got fancy with her foot work. Can you figure it out? http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV2007/%20_177.JPG Larry and Roger on the Alvord: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV2007/%20_186.JPG High plains and snow just west of Jack Pot, Nevada: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV2007/%20_197.JPG Jack Pot airport and the casinos. Catus Pete's owned the RV park and their casino was right next to the parking pad and gas pump. Had lunch here in the casino. Was reasonable and excellent: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV2007/%20_198.JPG Great Salt Lake, UT: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV2007/%20_206.JPG Walden, Colorado, where I spent the first night on the way home to Alabama. Condensation from my breath froze on the inside of my tent that night. Elevation was 8,250 feet ASL: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV2007/%20_220.JPG Beautiful, peaceful morning in NW Arkansas, my last morning of four on the way home to Alabama. I departed Neosho, MO, at 0610 that morning, a record for me and Miss P'fer: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV2007/%20_222.JPG Rice paddies in Mississippi. This photo was shot for Jim Hefner's wife who misses trees, water, and rice paddies: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV2007/%20_227.JPG You know you are getting near home when you cross the mighty Mississippi. This particular tow is pushing 27 barges. That is a big'un: http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV2007/%20_229.JPG Well, I fooled myself and completed the flight in one sitting. Hope you enjoy looking at the photos as much as I enjoyed my flight. john h mkIII ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:38:31 PM PST US From: russ kinne Subject: Re: Kolb-List: MV2007 John, Thanks for sharing. Your pix make me drool! Russ Kinne do not archive On Jun 5, 2007, at 12:05 PM, John Hauck wrote: > > Morning Gang: > > A few photos of my recent flight to MV2007 and beyond. I'll try to do > a couple a day to give you some idea of the flight. > > Steven Green, mkIII, just west of Russellville, AR, where we spent the > night in the FBO, which was opened up for us to use, plus the courtesy > car. In the back ground is a nuclear power plant. Gives one some > idea of how large the plant is compared to an aircraft with a 30 foot > wing span. > > http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV2007/%20_001.JPG > > My early morning flight at MV: > > http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV2007/%20_015.JPG > > Got to have an early morning silhouette: > > http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV2007/%20_031.JPG > > Lake Powell from a Kolb: > > http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV2007/%20_045.JPG > > Interesting rock formations in Southern Utah or Northern Arizona: > > http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV2007/%20_051.JPG > > Bonneville Salt Flats, Utah, is rather salty: > > http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV2007/%20_068.JPG > > The Kolbra and mkIII resting near the black line, Bonneville: > > http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV2007/%20_070.JPG > > John Williamson and the Kolbra on short, short final, McDermott, > Oregon: > > http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV2007/%20_087.JPG > > A quick stop off at the Alvord Dessert prior to arrival at the Rock > House: > > http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV2007/%20_098.JPG > > Fun flying on the Alvord: > > http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV2007/%20_112.JPG > > John W flying the Owyhee River Canyon: > > http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV2007/%20_116.JPG > > John W taking off from the Owyhee Reservoir State Airport, Oregon: > > http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV2007/%20_137.JPG > > Flying from the Rock House over to Rome, OR, for fuel, auto fuel that > is: > > http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV2007/%20_146.JPG > > Fill'er up: > > http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV2007/%20_147.JPG > > Ha! I beat the 18 wheeler to the gas pump: > > http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV2007/%20_148.JPG > > Three musketeers on the Alvord, John W, Larry C, and Miss P'fer: > > http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV2007/%20_151.JPG > > Home of Larry and Karen Cottrell, the Rock House in SE Oregon dessert: > > http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV2007/%20_160.JPG > > I theenk I got mooned. Three of the four musketeers, now includes > Roger Hankins, Grants Pass, OR: > > http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV2007/%20_169.JPG > > http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV2007/%20_172.JPG > > Miss P'fer (P fer plane) got fancy with her foot work. Can you figure > it out? > > http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV2007/%20_177.JPG > > Larry and Roger on the Alvord: > > http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV2007/%20_186.JPG > > High plains and snow just west of Jack Pot, Nevada: > > http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV2007/%20_197.JPG > > Jack Pot airport and the casinos. Catus Pete's owned the RV park and > their casino was right next to the parking pad and gas pump. Had > lunch here in the casino. Was reasonable and excellent: > > http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV2007/%20_198.JPG > > Great Salt Lake, UT: > > http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV2007/%20_206.JPG > > Walden, Colorado, where I spent the first night on the way home to > Alabama. Condensation from my breath froze on the inside of my tent > that night. Elevation was 8,250 feet ASL: > > http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV2007/%20_220.JPG > > Beautiful, peaceful morning in NW Arkansas, my last morning of four on > the way home to Alabama. I departed Neosho, MO, at 0610 that morning, > a record for me and Miss P'fer: > > http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV2007/%20_222.JPG > > Rice paddies in Mississippi. This photo was shot for Jim Hefner's > wife who misses trees, water, and rice paddies: > > http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV2007/%20_227.JPG > > You know you are getting near home when you cross the mighty > Mississippi. This particular tow is pushing 27 barges. That is a > big'un: > > http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV2007/%20_229.JPG > > Well, I fooled myself and completed the flight in one sitting. > > Hope you enjoy looking at the photos as much as I enjoyed my flight. > > john h > mkIII > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 01:37:08 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: MV2007 | Russ Kinne Hi Russ: Somehow, I thought drooling was a normal product of old age. ;-) john h mkIII DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 02:08:15 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Ms Dixie update From: "Paul Petty" Well gang Ms Dixie recived her registration as of today! Only problem is they listed TNK as the MFG and not me so after a phone call they (FAA) said no problem they would make the changes and issue a new registration and send it to me ASAP. I dont know about you guys/gals but once you get them on the phone they are a real pleasure to work with. Next is moving her to KLUL and let the fun begin! do not archive http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNumSQL.asp?NNumbertxt=408CP -------- Paul Petty Kolbra #12 Ms Dixie Final assembly! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=116718#116718 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 02:24:34 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Ms Dixie update Great news Paul! You and Charley will be flying before you know it. Good luck, john h mkIII DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 05:39:10 PM PST US From: WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: MV2007 In a message dated 6/5/2007 12:15:11 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jhauck@elmore.rr.com writes: Miss P'fer (P fer plane) got fancy with her foot work. Can you figure it out? http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV2007/%20_177.JPG Yeah John, I got it figured. I think! You came forward using the left set of tracks, made a sharp turn to the right, probably using your right brake to help. The left wheel continued in a nice arc, while the right wheel stayed still, even going backwards a foot or two, then all wheels going away and curving to the right to your final parking position. Was I right? Some beautiful pictures you have there. Thanks for sharing. Bill Varnes Original Kolb FireStar Audubon NJ Do Not Archive ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 05:51:44 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: MV2007 Bill: I think you got it. ;-) Notice the black rubber on the lake bed where I locked up the right brake....... john h mkIII DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 08:21:31 PM PST US From: "Larry Cottrell" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: MV2007 ----- Original Message ----- From: WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 6:37 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: MV2007 In a message dated 6/5/2007 12:15:11 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jhauck@elmore.rr.com writes: Miss P'fer (P fer plane) got fancy with her foot work. Can you figure it out? http://home.elmore.rr.com/jhauck/MV2007/%20_177.JPG Yeah John, I got it figured. I think! Bill, Take a close look at the video that I took of John landing and you see how it is made. Larry C http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8252079461989792144 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 09:21:20 PM PST US From: "Mark Shimei" Subject: Kolb-List: Wings needed Thanks to the kind people that have e-mailed me. I am still looking for someone closer to Florida with a set of Ultrastar wings(or the whole plane less eng).I have determined that the early firestar wings will be a little too heavy. Got the chance to talk to Ellery, George Alexander, Tim Cowan, and Jeremy Casey. What a great bunch of people!! Mark ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.