---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 06/08/07: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:07 AM - Re: Re: FIRE from Carbon (David Key) 2. 07:01 AM - Re: FIRE!!!!! (boyd) 3. 09:41 AM - Carb Balance / Sync (Roger Lee) 4. 10:33 AM - Re: Re: FIRE!!!!! (Russ Kinne) 5. 02:36 PM - Re: finished doors (planecrazzzy) 6. 05:26 PM - Re: Re: FIRE!!!!! (GeoR38@aol.com) 7. 05:37 PM - Re: Re: FIRE from Carbon (GeoR38@aol.com) 8. 05:43 PM - Re: Re: FIRE from Carbon (GeoR38@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:07:34 AM PST US From: "David Key" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: FIRE from Carbon I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, the plastic has carbon in it. http://www.ultralightnews.ca/ultralightstore/mrfunnel.htm 1. Carbon powder is injected into the Mr. Funnel plastic so that Mr. Funnel will conduct static electricity (not applicable to colored F1Cs). Grounding is an important safety feature. Always ground Mr. Funnel by Smart Tech. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:01:22 AM PST US From: "boyd" Subject: Kolb-List: Re: FIRE!!!!! >>>>>>>>>>> I've fueled from plastic cans many many times (hi-wing Cessna), in Canada & when on floats. Never had a problem, thankfully. Only thing I do, if I can, is hold spout closed with a fingertip until it's in the tank neck and in contact. Mainly to avoid spilling. 'Cans' are apparently non-conducting plastic, marked "UL Classified" Some are 'approved by the LAFD'.>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Don't know if it makes any difference or not..... I have been told that when transferring gas from a plastic container,,,, if you can keep the gas from traveling through open air,,, the static buildup will be less.... Therefore I have glued a long clear plastic hose to the end of the spout on my plastic tank.... by putting the end of the clear plastic hose into the bottom of the receiving tank, the gas does not pass through the air,,, also while pouring I grab the bare aluminum of the plane with my left hand while holding the plastic can on my right shoulder and holding it with my right hand... this is in an attempt to keep the tank and plane at somewhat the same electrical potential. The fuel tank in the plane is grounded to the frame. Boyd ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:41:18 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Carb Balance / Sync From: "Roger Lee" Hi all, Had a nice gentleman come over form Silver City to get a carb sync. He had about 200hrs. on his 912uls. He said he thought it was running ok. Bottom line is his carbs were not only out of mechanical sync because of uneven cable set, but the pneumatic sync was out 4" of vacumm. Moral of this story: it doesn't have to feel or sound bad. carbs do get out of sync and if you have never synced them, then they are out of sync. period. This makes one side work against the other at different rpms. There is no arguement here it's just a fact. A manual sync is not a fix or a replacement and they need to be pneumatically synced, the engine needs both. Everyone I know that does their sync evey 100 hrs. always finds the sync out some. Some more than others. This is so easy to do I have a hard time figuring out why some are so resistant to do this required function. I have yet to hook up a set of gages and find the carbs in perfect sync after some amount of run time on any 912. The carb system is a linked system with different components and any one of those can and do change from time to time. I would be happy to talk anyone through this if they would like to learn. Roger Lee Tucson,Az 520-574-1080 -------- Roger Lee Tucson, Az. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=117304#117304 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:33:55 AM PST US From: Russ Kinne Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: FIRE!!!!! Would be interested to see if the carbon-including plastic in a Mr. Funnel is conductive . Can anyone with a funnel and a VOM check this? The rubber in today's tires contains carbon and is conducting. Long ago gas-station people would sometimes get a shock from a car that's just driven in . All tank-trucks had a grounding chain trailing on the ground . Not needed nowadays. Grounding never hurts. How many of you carry a fire-extinguisher in your aircraft? When flames start is NO time to go looking for one. On Jun 7, 2007, at 6:16 PM, lcottrell wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Carl Radcliffe" > . It is well >> known that the pumping and pouring of a dielectric fluid (non >> conducting) >> can build up tremendous static charges. Great pains are taken to >> ground >> all sections of the system. >> Pouring/ pumping such a fluid into a plastic container always >> entails >> some risk. >> Grounding of non conductive plastic containers is recommended >> but not >> terribly effective. > > > Carl, > It is also known that static releases occur when two surfaces > containing > a static charge gets close enough for the charge to bridge the gap. > It would > also follow that if there was no gap, there should be no release or > spark > jump. It is my belief that by its construction and function that > the Mr > Funnel causes a bit more of the static buildup than just pouring it > into a > plastic gas container, so therefore if one insists on using it he > would be > better off making sure that all of the components are at least > grounded to > each other. Even if you do not use a Mr Funnel you should endeavor to > maintain contact between the receptacle and pouring spout. Terribly > effective or not. > Larry C > > > I posted this yesterday. It showed up on the regular list where we > get each message, but not on this one. Oh by the way, it was not > meant to be nasty, frustrated perhaps, but definately not nasty. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=117153#117153 > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:36:18 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: finished doors From: "planecrazzzy" Hey Bob, Them's some mighty fine lookin Doors !! Thanks fer post'n the pictures... Gotta Fly... Mike & "Jaz" in MN -------- .. .. .. .. .. Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=117374#117374 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:26:33 PM PST US From: GeoR38@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: FIRE!!!!! In a message dated 6/6/2007 4:11:20 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ceengland@bellsouth.net writes: JetPilot wrote: > > > olendorf wrote: >> I saw a guy pouring from a red plastic gas can into his Minimax and it caught on fire. The guy had the sense to put the gas cap back on his airplane tank really fast and no more fire. I was impressed. > > > I have never heard of an airplane catching fire because of fueling with plastic gas cans. Was he doing something strange, or did you see anything that might have caused this to happen ? > > Mike Happened to a friend of mine who flies a rotary powered RV-6. I can send you his email account of what happened, if you like. He stopped the fire with the same techniques mentioned by others: cap the fuel tank on the plane & put out the fire in the gas can with an extinguisher. He won't use auto fuel any more; fuels only from avgas pumps now. On the other hand, millions of people fuel boats, cars, lawnmowers, planes, etc from plastic cans every day with no problems. About a dozen people had car wrecks within 20 miles of each one of us today. Anyone plan to stop driving? :-) Charlie One thing that has not been mentioned in the dialog about static sparks is that one of the conditions for this to happen is a low humidity day. The drier the surrounding air, the more support for the generation of a spark from the storage point,namely the nonconductive plastic. That is where the charge is stored...or on your clothing or some other nonconducting medium. When the humidity is higher, the charge can be siphoned off or conducted off into the air better thereby eliminating the charge in the first place. My recommendation is to be MORE careful during dry days, as that is when the likelyhood of a spark is greatest. Touching (not rubbing) with your hand all plastic surfaces will also minimize the possibility of a spark. George Randolph firestar driver from the Villages, Fl ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:37:08 PM PST US From: GeoR38@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: FIRE from Carbon In a message dated 6/8/2007 8:08:09 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, dhkey@msn.com writes: I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, the plastic has carbon in it. http://www.ultralightnews.ca/ultralightstore/mrfunnel.htm 1. Carbon powder is injected into the Mr. Funnel plastic so that Mr. Funnel will conduct static electricity (not applicable to colored F1Cs). Grounding is an important safety feature. Always ground Mr. Funnel by Smart Tech. Now that makes a whole lot of sense,, thereby rendering M ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:43:13 PM PST US From: GeoR38@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: FIRE from Carbon In a message dated 6/8/2007 8:08:09 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, dhkey@msn.com writes: I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, the plastic has carbon in it. http://www.ultralightnews.ca/ultralightstore/mrfunnel.htm 1. Carbon powder is injected into the Mr. Funnel plastic so that Mr. Funnel will conduct static electricity (not applicable to colored F1Cs). Grounding is an important safety feature. Always ground Mr. Funnel by Smart Tech. Now that makes a whole lot of sense, causing grounding of the Mr Funnel to be HIGHLY EFFECTIVE as it will now CONDUCT electricity instead of only storing it like uncarbonized plastic..... such as our 5 and 6 gal red plastic containers. It seems that they too, should be carbonized.........why aren't they? Of course this would make Grounding HIGHLY EFFECTIVE instead of possibly effective. George Randolph Firestar driver from The Villages ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.