Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:14 AM - Re: Third Anniversary Of Third Alaskan Flight (pat ladd)
2. 07:33 AM - Ultrastar Opinions (jb92563)
3. 07:49 AM - Re: Ultrastar Opinions (John Hauck)
4. 07:58 AM - Re: Warning, Non-Kolb/Non Flying (jb92563)
5. 08:08 AM - Re: Ultrastar Opinions (jb92563)
6. 08:17 AM - Re: Third Anniversary Of Third Alaskan Flight (jb92563)
7. 08:39 AM - Re: Third Anniversary Of Third Alaskan Flight (N27SB@aol.com)
8. 09:28 AM - Re: Third Anniversary Of Third Alaskan Flight (John Hauck)
9. 10:54 AM - Re: Ultrastar Opinions (ElleryWeld@aol.com)
10. 11:13 AM - Re: Ultrastar Opinions (jb92563)
11. 12:03 PM - Re: Re: Ultrastar Opinions (John Hauck)
12. 12:03 PM - Re: Third Anniversary Of Third Alaskan Flight (David Kulp)
13. 12:06 PM - Aileron Forces (summersg)
14. 12:47 PM - Re: Ultrastar Opinions (jb92563)
15. 12:47 PM - What are you Guys Runnin For Gas? (Gary Knapp)
16. 01:01 PM - Re: Aileron Forces (jb92563)
17. 01:08 PM - Re: What are you Guys Runnin For Gas? (jb92563)
18. 01:14 PM - Re: Re: Ultrastar Opinions (John Hauck)
19. 01:28 PM - Re: Aileron Forces (planecrazzzy)
20. 01:35 PM - Re: Re: Aileron Forces/Handing Out Advice (John Hauck)
21. 01:53 PM - Re: Aileron Forces (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
22. 02:24 PM - Re: Re: Ultrastar Opinions (flykolb)
23. 02:26 PM - Re: Re: What are you Guys Runnin For Gas? (Dana Hague)
24. 02:31 PM - Re: Aileron Forces (Richard Pike)
25. 02:32 PM - Re: Re: Ultrastar Opinions (beauford T)
26. 02:51 PM - Re: Aileron Forces (John Hauck)
27. 02:51 PM - Re: What are you Guys Runnin For Gas? (william wheet)
28. 02:58 PM - Re: Re: Ultrastar Opinions/Fabric Testing (John Hauck)
29. 03:12 PM - Re: Re: Ultrastar Opinions (John Hauck)
30. 03:44 PM - Funny Stories (Mike Welch)
31. 04:21 PM - Re: Re: Ultrastar Opinions (flykolb)
32. 04:21 PM - Re: Funny Stories (John Hauck)
33. 04:28 PM - Re: Ultrastar Opinions (jb92563)
34. 05:53 PM - Re: Ultrastar Opinions (planecrazzzy)
35. 06:36 PM - Re: EIS 4000 (Paul Petty)
36. 07:25 PM - Re: Aileron Forces (Jack B. Hart)
37. 09:21 PM - Re: Aileron Forces (JetPilot)
38. 09:40 PM - Re: Aileron Forces (lucien)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Third Anniversary Of Third Alaskan Flight |
I'd like to do that trip on a bike, I think, some day soon before I get to
old for the task.>>
Hi John,
Go soon. I don`t know what the insurance situation is in the USA compared
to here. More relaxed I suspect as in most things..
For my birthday last year, 77th, Wendy bought for me a ride on a Harley.
She found that because of my age the company would not let me drive the bike
so I had to settle for a pillion ride. Finding that she was going to be left
kicking her heels for a couple of hours she booked a pillion ride for
herself.
We finally managed to fit the ride in last week. It was quite awkward as the
company was in Kent and it meant an overnight away to be there early in the
mornng. We got kitted out in the leathers and hemet and enjoyed a tour
around the very attractive small villages in the Weald of Kent in quite
reasonable weather.
We finished up with a fast run back to base. Wendy, on her pillion was doing
104 mph when I passed her on my pillion doing 110 mph. Not bad for a road
within 15 miles of the centre of London with a maximum speed limit of 70
mph. No speeding tickets have arrived yet.
I would say that contrary to my expectations, the Harleys were rubbish. They
looked fantastic. Gleaming paintwork and shining chrome (4000 worth on one
bike) but the ride, in spite of soft armchair type seats and sprung rear
wheels the ride was no better than the last bike I had in the early
`50`s.
I would like to get on a newly designed bike such as a Honda or a BMW to
see what a really modern bike is like but I wouldn`t have a Harley as a
gift.
I enjoyed looking through your Alaska pics again. Thanks for reminding me of
them.
Cheers
Pat
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| Subject: | Ultrastar Opinions |
My friend finally wants to sell me his Ultrastar for $3,500 USD.
Wing needs a couple small patches due to hanger rash.
I will get 2 Cuyuna engines and 2- 2 Blade props with it.
Engines are of unkown age, but I think one is fairly new.
Otherwise it looks to be in decent shape and has not been bent anywhere
that I can tell.
No trailer included.
Is that a decent price compared to others out there?
I'm 225lbs, would there be any issues with my weight in an Ultrastar?
Seeking opinions and comments.
--------
Ray
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| Subject: | Re: Ultrastar Opinions |
Ultrastar?
Ray (who?):
How old is the US?
Was tube seal used in the fuselage tubes when the aircraft was built?
4130 steel does not resist rust. Can't see inside all those large and
small 4130 tubes.
john h
mkIII
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| Subject: | Re: Warning, Non-Kolb/Non Flying |
By the President of the United States of America
A Proclamation
The words of President Dwight D. Eisenhower written in 1953 remain true today:
"It is fitting and proper that we devote one day each year to paying special tribute
to those whose constancy and courage constitute one of the bulwarks guarding
the freedom of this nation and the peace of the free world." On Armed Forces
Day, our grateful Nation salutes the brave men and women who protect our
country, defend freedom, and help make our world a better place.
--------
Ray
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| Subject: | Re: Ultrastar Opinions |
Ray from Riverside California. I joined the list about 3 months back.
Private Pilot Glider, flown Gliders, Lazair Ultralight, and have a Moni project.
I want to buy the Ultrastar to buzz around the patch and see Socal from the air.
Good point about the interior of the tubes.
Fortunately Socal is a very dry place where nothing seems to rust....I'll take
a look to see what I can see in those tubes.
Not sure about the age....I'll ask my friend when he gets back.
He is driving to the Toronto, Canada area to pick up an HP-14 Self Launch glider.
--------
Ray
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| Subject: | Re: Third Anniversary Of Third Alaskan Flight |
Wow, thats an amazing trip.
Says so much about your aircraft of choice as well.
I guess a well planned trip with a great aircraft and pilot stands a great chance
of success in this sort of adventure.
Flying across a couple states for a flyin does not seem like a big deal when put
into perspective of a trip like this.
Fantastic...and truly in the spirit of aviation pioneering and adventure of a past
era.
--------
Ray
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| Subject: | Re: Third Anniversary Of Third Alaskan Flight |
In a message dated 6/26/2007 4:54:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
jhauck@elmore.rr.com writes:
Got to get the old body in better shape to enjoy the
flight though. Takes a lot of energy and endurance to do an extremely
long flight in conditions normally encountered between here and
Barrow, AK.
john h
John,
I have a wheelbarrow, flat shovel and 4 yards of dirt to move.
Steve
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************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
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| Subject: | Re: Third Anniversary Of Third Alaskan Flight |
|
| Steve
Steve:
I wasn't talking about "manual" labor. More or less, something I
could do from my TV chair. ;-)
john h
mkIII
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| Subject: | Re: Ultrastar Opinions |
if you want to fly you had better grab that plane wlile you have the chance
for that small price and accessories or you will be watching someone else
flying around in it
Ellery
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See what's free at
http://www.aol.com.
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| Subject: | Re: Ultrastar Opinions |
Yes, I guess at that price you cant really go to far wrong if it looks decent.
He said that installing the engine is the only real task at hand since the 2 wing
patches are only a quick patch job.
I don't pretty up my planes with paint until I have worked the bugs out, so after
I have flown it a couple times I can restore it with a nice paint job.
Is there a way of testing the fabric to see if it needs replacement?
I looks and feels strong and has been stored out of the sunlight.
--------
Ray
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| Subject: | Re: Ultrastar Opinions |
out, so after I have flown it a couple times I can restore it with a
nice paint job.
|
| Is there a way of testing the fabric to see if it needs replacement?
|
| I looks and feels strong and has been stored out of the sunlight.
|
| --------
| Ray
Ray:
Sounds like you need to get some manuals on polyfiber covering
process.
Your questions reference fabric indicate you could use some good sound
info.
john h
mkIII
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| Subject: | Re: Third Anniversary Of Third Alaskan Flight |
Man does this stoke up the memories fire!! My best cycle trip ever was
on my BMW K100LT to AK. Rode 11,014 miles in 22 days (plus 30 hours up
the inside passage on the ferry stopping to spend my first weekend out
with my sister and b in law, Gladi Kulp and Jon Pond, in Juneau) and got
as far north as the Atigun Pass in the Brooks Mt. Range on the Haul Rd.
>From Fairbanks up to the pass and return in one day was 666 miles, 590
of them gravel. At that time it was a private road some miles north of
Cold Foot. The college kid in the "guard" shack stopped me but I
promised him I'd be "right back." Of course there were no services
above Cold Foot so I had to terminate my trespassing at the pass in
order to make it back to Cold Foot for gas.
Headed E from Tetlin Jct toward the Yukon Terr going home. Stopped at
Chicken, AK ( chickenalaska.com ) for supper. Chatted with the owners
for a while and asked where they lived before they bought Chicken. "You
never heard of it," she replied, "It's a little town in the lower 48.
New Hope, Pennsylvania." Blew me away and she was shocked, as well, to
learn I was from Lansdale, just about 18 miles away. Other "small
world" encounters too numerous to mention.
If any of you have considered doing Alaska, DO IT!! Don't wait, it's a
whole new world, and if you get to Juneau, stop at the AK State Library
and say hi to Gladi. She'd enjoy meeting any of you Kolb owners and
enthusiasts, especially since she's family of the founder.
Best regards,
Dave Kulp
Bethlehem, PA
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I have a Firestar II and note that the roll rate is very low and the stick
forces in a roll relatively high. The archives indicate that spades are not
appropriate for this aircraft. Some people have reduced the chord length
(front to rear) from some 15 to 9 inches to lighten the stick forces. I
would like some more information from people who have done this to Kolb
aircraft and, in particular, how a new chord length determined (e.g., would
12 or 16 inches work better/ worse). Thanks.
11:54 PM
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| Subject: | Re: Ultrastar Opinions |
Yes, I have never dealt with a fabric covered aircraft before, any tips will be
welcome.
Were all Kolb Ultrastars covered with polyfiber?
How long does it last if keeping the plane tied out in the sun.
--------
Ray
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| Subject: | What are you Guys Runnin For Gas? |
My firestar is all put back together, sittin in the Hanger and ready to go.
The Mechanic that Annuals my friends (and CFI) Cub, Tri Pacer, and Cherokee
140, "Annualed" my Firestar and gave it a thumbs up.
Said he was reading an article about adverse effects of automotive gasoline
on 2 stroke engines due to the alcohol content.
No doubt this has been discussed and beat to death.
I apologize in advance for not payin attention.
Just wondered what other folks are runnin for fuel in their Rotax?
Also lookin for any info to an annual Fly In over New Hampshire way?
Thanks!!
Gary
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron Forces |
Narrowing the aileron chord length seems like it would not help.
A narrower chord would require less control force...true enough, but the aileron
would have less effectiveness for a given deflection, requiring an increase
of deflection angle which would require more force, but now the deflection angle
of the aileron is greater causing more adverse yaw and more rudder to correct
for that.
Seems like you would end up back where you started only worse.
Alternatively I might suggest that the force may be greater on the down going aileron
than the upwards deflection so perhaps adjusting the differential aileron
throw is a better place to start working on this problem.
Also perhaps you need more leverage to lighten the stick force, so you either could
make the stick longer or move the contol attach point closer to the pivot.
I think the aileron size has been optimized by the designer, I would play with
the mechanical parts and try carefully adjusting those a bit at a time until you
are happier with the forces.
Just 2 cents from a test pilot.
--------
Ray
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| Subject: | Re: What are you Guys Runnin For Gas? |
Bean and cheese burrito is very effective at producing gas and causing running...
Sorry could not resist [Laughing]
91 octance autofuel for the Cuyunna430 on the Ultrastar.
The moisture content of the fuel due to alcohol may be the cause for some corrosion
of internal parts, but I am told that it is virtually negligable and probably
the moisture content of your local air is a greater risk than the fuel.
Perhaps only the muffler suffers a bit more.
--------
Ray
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| Subject: | Re: Ultrastar Opinions |
tips will be welcome.
|
| Were all Kolb Ultrastars covered with polyfiber?
|
| How long does it last if keeping the plane tied out in the sun.
|
| --------
| Ray
Ray:
You need to do some research. Flying is a dangerous business,
especially fabric covered airplanes. They do not fly well without
covering.
Here is a good place to start your fabric education:
Aircraft Technical Support, Inc. Call Jim and Dondi Miller toll free
at 1-877-877-3334
BTW: That is a toll free number.
Polyfiber has a good manual that will give you enough info to cover
your airplane and have a good idea of what you are doing.
john h
mkIII
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron Forces |
In the picture below ( attached )
You can see where I first put my aileron control rods....
it was suggested by "list members" to light the stick pressure.....
As you can see , I put it back in the "stock position"
The stick pressure isn't that bad , and I wanted more control for
those BIG gusts of wind....
Gotta Fly...
Mike & "Jaz" in MN / FSII - N381PM
.
.
.
.
--------
.
.
.
.
.
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Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00377_211.jpg
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron Forces/Handing Out Advice |
| I think the aileron size has been optimized by the designer, I would
play with the mechanical parts and try carefully adjusting those a bit
at a time until you are happier with the forces.
|
| Just 2 cents from a test pilot.
|
| --------
| Ray
Ray:
Are you a "Kolb" test pilot?
If I have paid attention to your posts, you are in the "try and get
this Ultrastar flying" stage. I do not know what your Kolb background
is, other than that.
Good idea to qualify ourselves when we start handing out advice to
others on how they should modify their Kolbs, especially flight
controls.
I, for one, try never to hand out advice, although I do have a little
experience flying and building these little rascals. I find it best
to share with others what I have done with my own Kolb, what the
results were, then let them decide if my info is useful.
Many new folks come to the Kolb List and immediately start handing out
info on an airplane they have never flown or built. There are a lot
of unsuspecting new members on this List that will grab any info they
get their hands on and take off with it, not knowing how valid that
info is.
We all need to be keenly aware of this.
john h
mkIII
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron Forces |
I'm going to stick my neck out here and tell you what I think. I
wouldn't for a second consider reducing the cord of the ailerons or as a
few have done move the pivot point of the aileron bell crank in to
reduce the deflection of the ailerons. My MKIIIC ailerons require a
fairly high force to deflect them at high speeds but when I really need
them, low speed and near the ground, they are much lighter. Our Kolbs
aren't aerobatic airplanes and as such don't need roll rates of 90
degrees per second. These planes do need powerful ailerons at slow
speeds when we are doing takeoffs and landings. I can't always fly in
perfect weather so if I get caught in turbulence near the ground I want
as much control as I can get. If the control forces are high enough that
I have to muscle them a bit that is much better than hitting the control
stop wishing I had more.
As for spades I don't think anyone that knows how they work would say
they are not appropriate. The problem has been building them so that
they work well and maybe not too well. I noticed Craig Nelson has a
small set attached to the balance weights on his MKIIIX and stated that
they were too small. There has been some discussion that there are
complex wind patterns at the wing tips that complicates or maybe
eliminates the effectiveness of these spades.
I know of a Firestar II that had spades on them (mid span below the
wing) at one time and the reports were that they worked very very well.
There were concerns of stressing the aileron hinges so they were
removed. Another concern would be that the ailerons could be deflected
further at high speeds than the wing or ailerons were designed to
handle. If you think about it Homer designed them to be effective at low
speeds yet keeping the pilot from damaging the airframe at high speeds.
My $.02 worth
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIC
----- Original Message -----
From: summersg
To: Kolb-List@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 2:57 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Aileron Forces
I have a Firestar II and note that the roll rate is very low and the
stick forces in a roll relatively high. The archives indicate that
spades are not appropriate for this aircraft. Some people have reduced
the chord length (front to rear) from some 15 to 9 inches to lighten the
stick forces. I would like some more information from people who have
done this to Kolb aircraft and, in particular, how a new chord length
determined (e.g., would 12 or 16 inches work better/ worse). Thanks.
6/26/2007 11:54 PM
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Ultrastar Opinions |
John H.
I have a great deal of respect for your flying abilities but sometimes you
are a little short with others.(:-)
Ray is doing research - that's one of the advantages of the Kolb List.
Someone should be able to just tell him how to check the fabric to see if he
can safely fly with his current fabric until he needs to recover. He is not
asking for complete covering info.
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 4:14 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Ultrastar Opinions
>
> | Yes, I have never dealt with a fabric covered aircraft before, any
> tips will be welcome.
>
>
> Ray:
>
> You need to do some research. Flying is a dangerous business,
> especially fabric covered airplanes. They do not fly well without
> covering.
>
> Here is a good place to start your fabric education:
>
> Aircraft Technical Support, Inc. Call Jim and Dondi Miller toll free
> at 1-877-877-3334
>
> BTW: That is a toll free number.
>
> Polyfiber has a good manual that will give you enough info to cover
> your airplane and have a good idea of what you are doing.
>
> john h
> mkIII
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: What are you Guys Runnin For Gas? |
At 04:08 PM 6/27/2007, jb92563 wrote:
>
>91 octance autofuel for the Cuyunna430 on the Ultrastar.
>
>The moisture content of the fuel due to alcohol may be the cause for some
>corrosion of internal parts, but I am told that it is virtually negligable
>and probably the moisture content of your local air is a greater risk than
>the fuel.
I think the concern regarding alcohol in the fuel is more from its
potential effects on nonmetallic parts (tubing, pumps, seals, etc.) than
any corrosion issues.
-Dana
--
--
Most politicians aren't crooks, but the ones that are sure are making the
other 10 percent look bad.
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron Forces |
Go look at this page for the Firestar II:
http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/FSII%20ailerons.html
and this one for the MKIII:
http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/pg7.htm
It's simple, it works, if you don't like it, put it back like it was.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
----- Original Message -----
From: summersg
To: Kolb-List@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 2:57 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Aileron Forces
I have a Firestar II and note that the roll rate is very low and the
stick forces in a roll relatively high. The archives indicate that
spades are not appropriate for this aircraft. Some people have reduced
the chord length (front to rear) from some 15 to 9 inches to lighten the
stick forces. I would like some more information from people who have
done this to Kolb aircraft and, in particular, how a new chord length
determined (e.g., would 12 or 16 inches work better/ worse). Thanks.
6/26/2007 11:54 PM
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Ultrastar Opinions |
Ray:
I do not claim to be any sort of UStar expert... but I doubt that is
scratched on a rock
anyplace that all Kolb US's were covered with polyfiber... The builder could
use whatever
fabric he preferred. It is likely, however, that it was polyfiber...or
if not Stits, at least some other brand of raw polyester heat-shrink fabric.
If you are in doubt about the condition of your fabric, would strongly
advise you get it tested...
Particularly on the top surfaces where the UV could have done the most harm.
Polyester
and UV do not go well together...It takes a relatively short time for poorly
protected
polyester fabric (such as polyfiber) to go completely to hell in sunlight...
and become
unairworthy. It will turn into material with about the same tensile strength
as old people's
toenails... Bad fabric can be painful... I once knew a gentleman in
Louisville, a mechanic,
who flew a rotted out Vagabond a little too long... He talked for several
years about
getting around to recovering it...One day, toward dusk, while he was on
downwind out
in the pattern, all the fabric came off the top of the right wing and his
fabric problem
was permanently solved.
Just about any A&E mechanic ought to be able to test it for you... there are
2 basic types
of testers... some punch holes and need a small patch afterwards... after 6
or 8 holes, this
gets a tad tedious...and makes the owner's teeth hurt... The preferred
tester is made by Maule,
and is rather more humane - it does not poke holes.
Protection for polyester fabric comes in the form of chemical blocking
additives to
the color coat of the paint (moderately effective), or by putting on
intermediate pre-
color coats of paint containing powdered aluminum to make it opaque...thus
blocking the UV.
These "silver" coats (usually 2 or 3 of them) work better, but add a lot of
weight in a hurry.
Most builders of Ultrastars were weight conscious dudes, so it might be
prudent to
assume that it has minimal protection unless you see evidence of silver. If
the fabric
passes any light at all through it, it likely has no significant silver
protection.
Your question about keeping it tied down outside -- Personally, I would only
do that if UV-proof covers were kept over the top surfaces of the fabric to
keep the sun off.... and after getting it tested.
There are many fabric experts on this list... if I steered you wrong,
I am certain one of them will pop up and promptly assassinate me in public.
I'd get it tested... And I'd also follow 'ol John H's good advice, get the
Polyfiber book
and talk to the pros... Jim and Dondi will not steer you wrong.
Worth what ye paid fer it...
Beauford
The Aluminum Butcher of Brandon, FL
Firefly 076
----- Original Message -----
From: "jb92563" <jb92563@yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 3:46 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Ultrastar Opinions
>
> Yes, I have never dealt with a fabric covered aircraft before, any tips
> will be welcome.
>
> Were all Kolb Ultrastars covered with polyfiber?
>
> How long does it last if keeping the plane tied out in the sun.
>
> --------
> Ray
>
> Do Not Archive
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=120912#120912
>
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron Forces |
I'm going to stick my neck out here and tell you what I think.
Rick Neilsen
Hi Rick:
Excellent post.
Glad you stuck your neck out.
Reference "aileron spades", I, personally, would not put them on my
mkIII, or any other model Kolb. I have not found a requirement to
crank the ailerons, lock to lock, at higher speeds. Just the
opposite. Homer Kolb told me many years ago to fly it gently, input a
little roll and she would roll right up. Just be patient.
Had a very experienced friend die in a Firestar wing failure. I
believe part of that failure was caused by aileron spades creating
more stress than the 5 rib wing panel could handle. Some of us have
been able to cause wing failures without spades on the old 5 rib
wings.
Take care,
john h
mkIII
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: What are you Guys Runnin For Gas? |
Gary
Bill The X Pers.
The Yul flyin is 7/7---7/14
--- Gary Knapp <gary56@sover.net> wrote:
> <gary56@sover.net>
>
> My firestar is all put back together, sittin in the
> Hanger and ready to go.
> The Mechanic that Annuals my friends (and CFI) Cub,
> Tri Pacer, and Cherokee
> 140, "Annualed" my Firestar and gave it a thumbs up.
> Said he was reading an article about adverse effects
> of automotive gasoline
> on 2 stroke engines due to the alcohol content.
> No doubt this has been discussed and beat to death.
> I apologize in advance for not payin attention.
> Just wondered what other folks are runnin for fuel
> in their Rotax?
>
> Also lookin for any info to an annual Fly In over
> New Hampshire way?
> Thanks!!
>
> Gary
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
>
> Web Forums!
>
>
>
>
>
Bill Wheet
Buxton, Me.
FsII 503
Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase.
http://farechase.yahoo.com/
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Ultrastar Opinions/Fabric Testing |
is
| scratched on a rock
| anyplace that all Kolb US's were covered with polyfiber...
| Beauford
Bill T:
Enjoyed your informative post.
Agree, there were a lot of older Kolbs that did not have suffcient UV
block applied based on keeping the weight to a minimum.
Had several fabric specimens fabric tested at FSU School of Home
Economics many years ago. My first airplane was an US. Did not have
a hanger, so I kept it tied down in the cow pasture with a couple
strands of barbed wire strung around it to keep the cows from rubbing
all the paint off of it and the calves from testing their taste buds.
After more than a year of continuous exposure I had a new piece of
unprocessed fabric tested, a piece that had been processed but not
exposed, and a piece off the top of a wing.
The machine used to test the fabric was a "pull tester" All specimens
of fabric tested out nearly as strong as the new nonexposed to UV
fabric.
I used no aluminum poly spray, but had the UV block added to clear
Aerothane. It worked.
That was the only time I used that method. The Firestar and mkIII
were subjected to several heavy coats of Polyspray.
john h
mkIII
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Ultrastar Opinions |
| Ray is doing research - that's one of the advantages of the Kolb
List.
| Jim
Jim (who?):
Thanks for your opinion.
My opinion is the man needs to learn something about fabric and
aircraft. Based on his comments, he knows very little.
When I built my first airplane, the 1984 Ultrastar, I had zero
knowledge of aircraft fabric and finishing techniques. The best
source of info at that time was Ray Stitts manual on fabric covering
and finishing. We got one with our covering kits that were included
in the aircraft kit. That is where I learned how to cover, finish,
and repair fabric. Seems to me, Ray?? could get a great deal of info
out of the newer manual produced by Polyfiber. That is why I
recommended he call Jim and Dondi Miller, toll free, and get a copy of
it. If that was not "sugar coated" enough for you, I am very sorry.
However, I am not accustomed to that kind of interaction. When it
comes to airplanes and flying, I would rather someone come across as a
straight shooter than be any where near wishy washy. ;-)
Take care,
john h
mkIII
PS: I just returned from dragging my airstrip to flatten a ton of cow
manure, so it will dry and I can fly this evening. Not a bad job, and
someone has to do it. Besides, it gives me an excuse to crank up one
of those old tractors that are older than me and most of you all. The
down side of dragging manure is.............the old gals and young'ns
will turn around and do it all over again.
Message 30
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John H,
Reading your post regarding runways and manure brings back memories of my
good friend, Frank, and his story of having to land in a cow pasture.
Besides his very animated description of the cow's foot potholes knocked him
about during the roll-out, he went on to describe the incredibly unpleasant
result of hitting cow patties at 30 mph with his landing wheels. OMG
He had us rolling on the ground laughing!!!! And he just stands there
with little bits of pasture shrapnel all over his clothes and face!
Still makes me laugh, just
thinking about it. Mike in SW Utah
Oh, BTW. This same Frank is why I ever became involved with Kolbs. He
purchased an UltraStar that was rotted away and rebuilt it. He is, without
a doubt, one of the best welder's around. He actually converted the
UltraStar to being a top-mount motor, by reversing the location of the boom
tube. In essence, he created a FireStar out of an U-Star.
_________________________________________________________________
Dont miss your chance to WIN $10,000 and other great prizes from Microsoft
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Ultrastar Opinions |
Jim m
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 6:09 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Ultrastar Opinions
>
>
> List.
>
>
>
> Jim (who?):
>
> Thanks for your opinion.
>
> My opinion is the man needs to learn something about fabric and
> aircraft. Based on his comments, he knows very little.
>
> When I built my first airplane, the 1984 Ultrastar, I had zero
> knowledge of aircraft fabric and finishing techniques. The best
> source of info at that time was Ray Stitts manual on fabric covering
> and finishing. We got one with our covering kits that were included
> in the aircraft kit. That is where I learned how to cover, finish,
> and repair fabric. Seems to me, Ray?? could get a great deal of info
> out of the newer manual produced by Polyfiber. That is why I
> recommended he call Jim and Dondi Miller, toll free, and get a copy of
> it. If that was not "sugar coated" enough for you, I am very sorry.
> However, I am not accustomed to that kind of interaction. When it
> comes to airplanes and flying, I would rather someone come across as a
> straight shooter than be any where near wishy washy. ;-)
>
> Take care,
>
> john h
> mkIII
>
> PS: I just returned from dragging my airstrip to flatten a ton of cow
> manure, so it will dry and I can fly this evening. Not a bad job, and
> someone has to do it. Besides, it gives me an excuse to crank up one
> of those old tractors that are older than me and most of you all. The
> down side of dragging manure is.............the old gals and young'ns
> will turn around and do it all over again.
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Funny Stories |
memories of my
| good friend, Frank, and his story of having to land in a cow
pasture.
Mike in SW Utah
Mike:
Check the bottom of my wings. ;-(
I have been living with this problem for 23 years, but the price is
right and Miss P'fer does not have to worry herself about a home.
Neither do the antique tractors.
Reckon it is alright to discuss airstrips, although not many folks do
on this List.
I am out the door and heading for Gantt IAP to try out a new ENC DC
headset. My DRE is verging on going belly up and I do not want to be
caught out without some type of electronic noise canceling set. My
hearing has gotten so bad I can not decipher spoken word on a DC
passive headset any more. Blames all my flying buddies for bad radios
for a couple years before I discovered it was my bad ears. ;-)
john h
mkIII
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Ultrastar Opinions |
Thanks for the concern guys, but I dont care if its sugar coated or not, I have
been life hardened and experience tempered.
I treat everything as opinions needing verification when my butt hangs in the balance.
I'd rather someone cast their raw impressions so I can look at it from all perspectives
and glean what I can from it.
Some opinions are more usefull than others when accompanied by supporting info......like
contacts for info on polyfiber methods.(Thanks)
Its all good.
This is an awesome resource...and I thank you all for supporting it.
--------
Ray
Do Not Archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=120964#120964
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| Subject: | Re: Ultrastar Opinions |
We also try to use "Do not archive" .....
Unless there's something worth looking up in the future....
"My" do not archive is in my signiture....That way I never forget it....
Gotta Fly...
Mike & "Jaz" in MN
.
.
.
kolbmark3 wrote:
> Jim m
> ---
--------
.
.
.
.
.
Do Not Archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=120980#120980
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it has been stated here many times but once more i must say Sandy at GRT is awesome!
I got to the airport and was sitting in Ms Dixie at 7:00am local so i could
call her at opening. took less than 35 min for her to "walk" me through the
set up and I am now happy with my EIS!
--------
Paul Petty
Kolbra #12
Ms Dixie
Wating for final inspection and cert.
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron Forces |
>I have a Firestar II and note that the roll rate is very low and the stick
forces in a roll relatively high. The archives indicate that spades are not
appropriate for this aircraft. Some people have reduced the chord length
(front to rear) from some 15 to 9 inches to lighten the stick forces. I
would like some more information from people who have done this to Kolb
aircraft and, in particular, how a new chord length determined (e.g., would
>12 or 16 inches work better worse). Thanks.
Hi,
I have an early FireFly on which I replaced the fifteen inch chord ailerons
with nine inch chord ailerons after flying it just four hours. Later I
modified the control linkages. This greatly improved roll rate and reduced
stick pressures. It turned an around the patch quiet air machine into an
any time of the day machine. It is a pure delight to fly in rough air. It
effortlessly forward or side slips. The only thing, that I gave up was a
little wing area, and I had to accept a small increase in stall speed. I
got the stall speed back with vortex generators.
There is a misconception that large ailerons are better. But roll rate is
influenced by the change in the angle of the wing chord as the aileron is
deflected. If you have a long chord aileron, the dynamic loading will be
high and stick pressure will higher than it needs to be at any speed. By
reducing the aileron chord, the dynamic loading goes down for the same
aileron deflection and stick pressure goes down too.
I don't know if this will help you with your Firestar, but you can see some
more at:
http://www.thirdshift.com/jack/firefly/firefly26.html
If you make new ailerons save your old ones in case you need to put them
back one. I still have mine in the barn. They have about seven years of
dust on them.
The nine inch chord came about in the following way. I hangared in a
communal hangar and they were cementing the floor. I helped to move and
pack planes so two bays would be open for the concreters. I got out my
measuring tape and measured wing and aileron chords. And using an incline
meter, I measured aileron up and down deflections. All of these aircraft
flew very well with much less aileron length and total aileron deflection.
Be careful, and fly safe.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron Forces |
The aileron forces on the Kolb MK III are unreasonably high, and I have also been
working to reduce my Aileron Forces... The Kolb is not an aerobatic airplane
and does not need to roll fast, but there is no reason in the world that the
roll should be hard and require a lot of effort.
First problem is in the linkage design, Kolbs have WAY TO MUCH travel built into
the ailerons. My Kolb MK III Xtra had 40 degrees of up aileron which is as
much or more than a highly aerobatic Extra 300. This is a design error by Kolb
and needs to be fixed... I found even than in crosswinds etc, I never used
anywhere near full stick. Secondly, anything past 25 or 30 degrees travel turns
into drag, and does not give you more control. The easy way to fix this on
a MK III is to shorten where the aileron rods attach at the rear of the fuselage
as seen in the attached picture, but this brings other problems. First,
it increases the angle of the aileron control rods to the point where they are
pushing out as much as they are pushing the aileron up and down, so some of
what you gained is also wasted. Secondly, it increases the aileron differential
to an unreasonable amount. In other words, you get a lot of up, but very little
down aileron the more you move these rods in.. Not good and I did not use
this method to lighten my control forces. My solution was to drill a hole
in the bottom of the stick, and shorten the aileron attach point to the stick,
resulting in less throw and less force without all the disadvantages of the
other methods. In the picture, I just drilled another hole above hole where
the bolt that attaches to the stick, moving the attachment point up. This picture
was before the modification, you can clearly see how much extra room there
is to drill a higher hole.
Spades would be great, I plan on doing this when I have time. As far as stress,
that is a matter of having the skill and judgement not to yank hard and overstress
the ailerons at high speed, but that is the case with almost any airplane
you fly. Big control inputs at high speeds are bad, from ultraights to airliners...
Thats called pilot technique. I dont need rock hard control forces
to keep me from doing something stupid. I would rather have an easy to fly
airplane that does not tire me out quickly.
I would NOT shorten the ailerons, that reduces wing area and aileron area. There
is no need to do this with other better, and easier options avialable.
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron Forces |
I havn't flown a MKIII yet, but my FS II's aileron forces are very light. In fact,
it has the lightest control forces that I've flown to my recollection, especially
in roll. My titan for example has spades on it, but still requires significantly
more muscle in roll than my firestar II.
It's very easy for me to get the stick over to the stop at any speed. The torque
rod from the stick going back to the bellcrank for the aileron pushrods seems
to flex twist-wise, limiting the aileron movement at cruise speeds even with
the stick pegged all the way to the stop.
With gap seals on the ailerons, there's still a fair bit of roll authority. It
doesn't roll like a pitts to be sure, but it's still pretty good.
But I used to think this was goofy with the stick over at the stop but the aileron
barely deflecting. But having researched it more, I'd bet if more force were
able to be applied to the ailerons, it would probably exceed design limits
probably in the hinges and perhaps in the wing panels.
And they do move more at lower speeds, where more movement is needed, due to the
lower airspeeds....
So... JMO...I'd say no mods to the ailerons or the linkage are really needed or
should be attempted, I think it's operating as designed and works best as is.
Gaps seal are specified for the ailerons, which I make out of shipping tape and
replace about once a year. This greatly improves the aileron response over a
non-sealed gap...
I can't explain it, I just love this airplane. My titan will fly circles around
it literally but in calm weather my Kolb with it's little 503 screamer is what
I prefer to fly by far.....
LS
--------
LS
FS II
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