---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 06/28/07: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:55 AM - Re: Funny Stories (pat ladd) 2. 05:52 AM - Re: Aileron Forces (robert bean) 3. 07:34 AM - Re: What are you Guys Runnin For Gas? (ElleryWeld@aol.com) 4. 08:07 AM - Re: Aileron Forces/Handing Out Advice (jb92563) 5. 08:24 AM - Re: Aileron Forces (N27SB@aol.com) 6. 11:28 AM - Re: Ms Dixie update (Paul Petty) 7. 11:28 AM - Re: What are you Guys Runnin For Gas? (Gary Knapp) 8. 12:06 PM - Re: Re: Ms Dixie update (John Hauck) 9. 12:22 PM - Re: Ms Dixie update (jb92563) 10. 01:00 PM - Landing Downhill At The Rock House (John Hauck) 11. 02:17 PM - Re: Aileron Forces (Jack B. Hart) 12. 03:30 PM - Re: Ms Dixie update (Paul Petty) 13. 07:19 PM - Re: Aileron Forces (N27SB@aol.com) 14. 08:19 PM - Re: New Hampshire Fly - In (ElleryWeld@aol.com) 15. 11:36 PM - Re: Aileron Forces (Jim Dunn) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:55:59 AM PST US From: "pat ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Funny Stories incredibly unpleasant result of hitting cow patties at 30 mph with his landing wheels.>> Hi the problem with cow manure, as well as the smell, is the hardness to which it dries. Landing through manure is bad enough but at least you can clean it off before it dries. Taking off through it and having to hack it off when you land is a different story. Ask me how I know! Cheers Pat ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:52:06 AM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Aileron Forces I moved mine in about half of Richard P's distance and was happy with the result. Plenty of control and just the right stick resistance. Like he says, if not what you want, just move them back. BB MkIIIc, suzuki 3 cyl, 65" powerfin ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:34:09 AM PST US From: ElleryWeld@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: What are you Guys Runnin For Gas? There is a Fly in In Greenland New Hampshire but I havent seen any date posted yet for it ,as soon as I hear of the Date I will post it for you Ellery In Maine do not archive ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:07:02 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Aileron Forces/Handing Out Advice From: "jb92563" Point is well taken, but my advice was conservative and purposely steered them away from modifying aerodynamics by making the aileron narrower and of course changing its behavior. Making aerodynamic changes on a proven design will get you killed faster than anything else you can do. Therefore making small control system changes instead will still allow the aircraft to fly as designed and any changes if done a little bit at a time is much safer than other options. I suppose I could have suggested a gym membership to strengthen the guys arms to be even more conservative. If someone has made an aerodynamic change successfully and wants to claim it as a success then I would expect they should have thoroughly tested the change through the entire flight envelope to Vne, stalls, spins and the recovery.....both power on and power off and of course purposely tried to excite the ailerons to flutter through the complete speed and deflection range......thats a lot of work to try and get yourself killed. Like everything else its all opinions and ultimately up to the person who hangs his butt out in the wind. People in aviation that use unverified advice fall under Darwins Rule, and dont pass on their lack of skill or intelligence.....in theory anyway. Im not a Kolb test pilot yet...will be soon, but I have been for another Ultralight Twin and an Experimental. Hows that for straight shooting? !!! Ray My ussual 2 cents worth based on experience, knowledge and memories of friends that have discovered unairworthy modifications the hard way. -------- Ray Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121071#121071 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:24:41 AM PST US From: N27SB@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Aileron Forces In a message dated 6/27/2007 10:25:36 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, jbhart@onlyinternet.net writes: I have an early FireFly on which I replaced the fifteen inch chord ailerons with nine inch chord ailerons after flying it just four hours. Later I modified the control linkages. This greatly improved roll rate and reduced stick pressures. It turned an around the patch quiet air machine into an any time of the day machine. It is a pure delight to fly in rough air. It effortlessly forward or side slips. The only thing, that I gave up was a little wing area, and I had to accept a small increase in stall speed. I got the stall speed back with vortex generators. Hi Jack, A few years ago when we were re covering my Firefly I asked Homer about the big Ailerons. He recommended that I reduce them to 9". It made a big difference in FF 007 and very little change in other areas due to reduced wing area. Steve FF 007 ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:28:25 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Ms Dixie update From: "Paul Petty" Gang, Just got word that Ms Dixie is set to get her airworthyness inspection this Saturday at 9:00am. Will keep you posted do not archivie -------- Paul Petty Kolbra #12 Ms Dixie Wating for final inspection and cert. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121094#121094 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:28:51 AM PST US From: "Gary Knapp" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: What are you Guys Runnin For Gas? Thanks! Ellery Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: ElleryWeld@aol.com To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 10:33 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: What are you Guys Runnin For Gas? There is a Fly in In Greenland New Hampshire but I havent seen any date posted yet for it ,as soon as I hear of the Date I will post it for you Ellery In Maine do not archive ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:06:16 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Ms Dixie update inspection this Saturday at 9:00am. | Paul Petty Gang: Is Paul excited??? Naw!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Good luck Paul. I'll talk to Charlie H before he flies. john h mkIII DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:22:30 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Ms Dixie update From: "jb92563" Does that mean you can fly this weekend or do you have to wait on paperwork? Best of Luck! -------- Ray Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121099#121099 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:00:54 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Kolb-List: Landing Downhill At The Rock House Hi Gang: I like this photo. Shows a lot of action and enery. Was landing on the last couple hundred feet, down hill and to the south at Larry Cottrell's Rock House, Jordan Valley, Oregon, May 2007. Better put two of them in there. First is just touching down at the crest of the hill. These photos were taken by John W. What the heck. I'll put four in there. We were playing around and taking flying photos. John W did a better job than I did. Sorry, John W. john h mkIII DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:17:04 PM PST US From: "Jack B. Hart" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Aileron Forces From: N27SB@aol.com A few years ago when we were re covering my Firefly I asked Homer about the big Ailerons. He recommended that I reduce them to 9". It made a big difference in FF 007 and very little change in other areas due to reduced wing area. Steve, Did Homer tell you why nine inch chord was a good number? Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:30:22 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Ms Dixie update From: "Paul Petty" Thanks Ray and John....it's nut cucting time now! Im very excited to say the the less do not archive -------- Paul Petty Kolbra #12 Ms Dixie Wating for final inspection and cert. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121121#121121 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:19:25 PM PST US From: N27SB@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Aileron Forces In a message dated 6/28/2007 5:17:54 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jbhart@onlyinternet.net writes: Steve, Did Homer tell you why nine inch chord was a good number? Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN No he did not. 9" was the current standard. Remember, Homer did not design the Firefly. steve ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:19:50 PM PST US From: ElleryWeld@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: New Hampshire Fly - In The fly in at Greenland New Hampshire is 7 / 7 to 7 / 14 for anyone that is interested in going to it Ellery in MAINE do not archive ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:36:08 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Aileron Forces From: "Jim Dunn" I moved the flaperon linkages inboard 3/4" on my Firefly tonight (original 15" flaperon chord). If you do yours, make sure you measure the new hole positions from the centerline, not the outboard edge of the arm. Turns out the arm was not welded on centerline and one arm is longer than the other. Difference is about 1/8". Still better than it was. Air was smooth as silk after sunset. Thanks to this list for the suggestion. Jim N. 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