Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:36 AM - Re: firestar prop size? (John Hauck)
2. 07:22 AM - Re: Vortex Generators - Flight test report. (jimhefner)
3. 07:31 AM - Re: firestar prop size? (Jack B. Hart)
4. 08:40 AM - Re: Oshkosh 2007 (Jim Kmet)
5. 09:56 AM - Kolb Down?? (beauford T)
6. 09:58 AM - Re: Re: Vortex Generators - Flight test report. (Larry Cottrell)
7. 10:40 AM - Re: Kolb Down?? (David Lehman)
8. 10:54 AM - Re: Vortex Generators - Flight test report. (jimhefner)
9. 11:50 AM - Re: Kolb Down?? (beauford T)
10. 11:52 AM - Re: Not a Kolb Down?? (John Cooley)
11. 11:52 AM - Re: Kolb Down?? (David Key)
12. 12:04 PM - Re: Landing Downhill At The Rock House (GeoR38@aol.com)
13. 12:33 PM - Re: Not a Kolb Down?? (Chuck Stonex)
14. 01:34 PM - Re: Re: Vortex Generators - Flight test report. (Dana Hague)
15. 01:48 PM - Re: Re: Vortex Generators - Flight test report. (Richard Pike)
16. 01:49 PM - Re: firestar prop size? (flymichigan@comcast.net)
17. 05:32 PM - Re: Jabiru 2 cylinder - is it real (Spot)
18. 08:06 PM - Re: Control Surface Hinges (JRatcli256@aol.com)
19. 08:31 PM - Re: Vortex Generators - Flight test report. (JetPilot)
20. 09:23 PM - Kolb Rigging - Flaps and Ailerons (JetPilot)
21. 09:58 PM - Re: Re: Oshkosh 2007 (David Key)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: firestar prop size? |
Firestar I with a 447. I am not reaching full RPMs. My plane has a
wood 66x33 which I am guessing is my problem. Any ideas?
|
| Thanks,
| Bryan Dever
Bryan D:
Bryan D:
66X32 was what I was running on my 1986 FS.
Not all wooden props are created equal. I also ran a 66X30 Jim Culver
prop. The GSC two blade wooden prop that is still hanging around, if
I remember correctly, was pitched a little lighter than the 66X30
Culver prop.
For me, ideal pitch is WOT, straight and level flight, just bump the
redline for max continuous rpm, which is 6,500 rpm for a 447. Will
produce the best climb and cruise.
john h
mkIII
john h
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators - Flight test report. |
Mike, did you put any VG's on the underside of the horizontal stabilizers? You
might want to consider that if not. It might not be a big deal on the Mk III
X but it will help keep the tail from stalling before the main wing on slow landings.
You might consider relocating the VG's from the outer wing sections
to under the Vert Stab if you don't have enough.... you will not notice anything
different and it will look better IMHO.
I agree with the others about the loss of speed being related to the prop change
more than the VG's. Any chance of putting the old prop back on to know for
sure?
I'm glad, but not surprised, to see VG's made such a nice difference in a MK III
X!
--------
Jim Hefner
Tucson, AZ
Do Not Archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=123394#123394
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| Subject: | Re: firestar prop size? |
At 04:06 AM 7/12/07 +0000, you wrote:
>
>Hello everyone. Does anyone know the recommended prop size for a Firestar I
with a 447. I am not reaching full RPMs. My plane has a wood 66x33 which I
am guessing is my problem. Any ideas?
>
Bryan,
If your engine is running fine and you do not wish to purchase a new propeller,
make a fixture and start cutting the tips off the propeller. Take no more that
a half and inch at a time, and fly with it after cutting to see how it performs.
If the engine does not come up to speed take another half inch off. When
you get the engine speed where you want it, check the balance.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Oshkosh 2007 |
I`ll be there on Tuesday & Wed, looking to meet some Kolbers, but I won`t
have mine there, I have to go in a 182 with 3 other guys,
Jim Kmet, (Cookeville, TN MK-3C)
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 5:55 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Oshkosh 2007
>
> Who is going to Oshkosh this year?
>
> Rick Neilsen
>
> Rick N:
>
> I am. Should arrive Sun, 22 Jul, or Mon, 23 Jul. Will be flying in
> and living with the mkIII for the week, or as long as I can tolerate
> it. ;-)
>
> See ya'll there.
>
> john h
> mkIII
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
>
Message 5
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Kolbers:
Just saw Fox TV news aerial video of what looks like a Firestar or
Firefly cracked-up in a field... Did not
get to hear it all, but they mentioned Homestead, FL and said that the
pilot walked away.
Airplane had white wings and a light blue nose & tail... right wing
appeared to be cocked forward
at about a 45 degree angle, mostly covering the nose from the camera.
Left wing was back over the
fuselage.
Anyone have an idea who this Kolber might be?
Do not archive
Curious Beauford
FF 076
Brandon, FL
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators - Flight test report. |
----- Original Message -----
From: "jimhefner" <hefner_jim@msn.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 8:22 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Vortex Generators - Flight test report.
>
> Mike, did you put any VG's on the underside of the horizontal stabilizers?
> You might want to consider that if not. It might not be a big deal on the
> Mk III X but it will help keep the tail from stalling before the main wing
> on slow landings.
________________________________________________________________
Just what happens when the tail stalls?
Larry C
Message 7
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http://cbs4.com/topstories/local_story_193104433.html
Said his name is Pete...
On 7/12/07, beauford T <beauford173@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> Kolbers:
> Just saw Fox TV news aerial video of what looks like a Firestar or Firefly
> cracked-up in a field... Did not
> get to hear it all, but they mentioned Homestead, FL and said that the
> pilot walked away.
>
> Airplane had white wings and a light blue nose & tail... right wing
> appeared to be cocked forward
> at about a 45 degree angle, mostly covering the nose from the camera. Left
> wing was back over the
> fuselage.
>
> Anyone have an idea who this Kolber might be?
>
> Do not archive
>
> Curious Beauford
> FF 076
> Brandon, FL
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators - Flight test report. |
Just what happens when the tail stalls?
Larry C
Larry, my experience (and I know Jack Hart experienced this) is based on VG's on
the main wing of a Firefly. The tail would tend to sink faster than the main
wing at slow speed, making a 3 pt landing difficult. Usually the tail sink
quicker than the main wing and the tailwheel would touch down and then the mains
would come down quickly and not as gently as I wanted, due to the higher pitch
angle created by the early tail stall. I put VG's under the hor stab's and
the problem was cured. Jack experimented with this long before me so I was
able to follow his lead and experienced the same things he did. I think the same
thing applies to all Kolbs with VG's
--------
Jim Hefner
Tucson, AZ
Do Not Archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=123437#123437
Message 9
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Glad it wasn't a Kolb... the wing planform sorta looked like one in the
helicopter shot
for the few seconds I saw it on TV....
I thought Ol' Pete's explanation was kinda interesting...
Blurry-eyed Beauford
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: David Lehman
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 1:36 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb Down??
http://cbs4.com/topstories/local_story_193104433.html
Said his name is Pete...
On 7/12/07, beauford T <beauford173@verizon.net> wrote:
Kolbers:
Just saw Fox TV news aerial video of what looks like a Firestar or
Firefly cracked-up in a field... Did not
get to hear it all, but they mentioned Homestead, FL and said that
the pilot walked away.
Airplane had white wings and a light blue nose & tail... right wing
appeared to be cocked forward
at about a 45 degree angle, mostly covering the nose from the
camera. Left wing was back over the
fuselage.
Anyone have an idea who this Kolber might be?
Do not archive
Curious Beauford
FF 076
Brandon, FL
Message 10
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| Subject: | Not a Kolb Down?? |
Gang,
After viewing this video clip and looking as closely as the poor video
and
pictures will allow I do not believe this is a Kolb. Looks more like a
single seat =93T=94 Bird or something similar but not a Kolb.
Later,
John Cooley
_____
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Lehman
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 12:37 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb Down??
HYPERLINK
"http://cbs4.com/topstories/local_story_193104433.html"http://cbs4.com/to
pst
ories/local_story_193104433.html
Said his name is Pete...
On 7/12/07, beauford T <HYPERLINK
"mailto:beauford173@verizon.net"beauford173@verizon.net> wrote:
Kolbers:
Just saw Fox TV news aerial video of what looks like a Firestar or
Firefly
cracked-up in a field... Did not
get to hear it all, but they mentioned Homestead, FL and said that the
pilot
walked away.
Airplane had white wings and a light blue nose & tail... right wing
appeared
to be cocked forward
at about a 45 degree angle, mostly covering the nose from the camera.
Left
wing was back over the
fuselage.
Anyone have an idea who this Kolber might be?
Do not archive
Curious Beauford
FF 076
Brandon, FL
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List"http://www.matronics.com/Na
vig
ator?Kolb-List
"http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com
12:00
AM
12:00
AM
Message 11
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Couldn't ask for a better place to land in an emergency than a huge net.
do not archive
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Landing Downhill At The Rock House |
In a message dated 6/28/2007 4:02:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
jhauck@elmore.rr.com writes:
Hi Gang:
I like this photo. Shows a lot of action and enery. Was landing on
the last couple hundred feet, down hill and to the south at Larry
Cottrell's Rock House, Jordan Valley, Oregon, May 2007.
Better put two of them in there. First is just touching down at the
crest of the hill.
These photos were taken by John W.
Very nice John............... geeeez, I gotta get back to fl and flying
again........are you there Rich Swiderski?
George Randolph
************************************** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
Message 13
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| Subject: | Not a Kolb Down?? |
Hey Guys ....
I watched the video and this is definately NOT a T Bird. It has the wrong n
ose. When I was in Florida a couple of years ago I visited Lakeland twice.
There was a lot of CGS Hawks based there but this does not look like one of
those either. There were also some Kolbs hangered at a field just north of
there.LEBTFChuck
From: jcooley380@hughes.netTo: kolb-list@matronics.comSubject: RE: Kolb-Lis
t: Not a Kolb Down??Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 13:48:45 -0500
Gang,
After viewing this video clip and looking as closely as the poor video and
pictures will allow I do not believe this is a Kolb. Looks more like a sing
le seat =93T=94 Bird or something similar but not a Kolb.
Later,
John Cooley
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of David LehmanSent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 12:37
PMTo: kolb-list@matronics.comSubject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb Down??
http://cbs4.com/topstories/local_story_193104433.html
Said his name is Pete...
On 7/12/07, beauford T <beauford173@verizon.net> wrote:
Kolbers:
Just saw Fox TV news aerial video of what looks like a Firestar or Firefly
cracked-up in a field... Did not
get to hear it all, but they mentioned Homestead, FL and said that the pilo
t walked away.
Airplane had white wings and a light blue nose & tail... right wing appeare
d to be cocked forward
at about a 45 degree angle, mostly covering the nose from the camera. Left
wing was back over the
fuselage.
Anyone have an idea who this Kolber might be?
Do not archive
Curious Beauford
FF 076
Brandon, FL 12:00 AM
12:00 AM
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators - Flight test report. |
At 12:57 PM 7/12/2007, Larry Cottrell wrote:
>Just what happens when the tail stalls?
Since the tail normally is pushing down, when it stalls it goes up, the
plane noses down, the tail starts flying again, and the plane recovers.
This assumes you're not pushing the stick forward and doing negative g's...
-Dana
--
--
The only correct outcome to an armed robbery attempt is a dead armed robber.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators - Flight test report. |
Maybe I am missing something here but... Relocating/removing the VG's from
the outer wing sections - and leaving them on the inner wing sections? Would
that not give you tips that stall first? That doesn't sound like anything I
would want.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
----- Original Message -----
From: "jimhefner" <hefner_jim@msn.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 10:22 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Vortex Generators - Flight test report.
>
> Mike, did you put any VG's on the underside of the horizontal stabilizers?
> You might want to consider that if not. It might not be a big deal on the
> Mk III X but it will help keep the tail from stalling before the main wing
> on slow landings. You might consider relocating the VG's from the outer
> wing sections to under the Vert Stab if you don't have enough.... you will
> not notice anything different and it will look better IMHO.
>
> I agree with the others about the loss of speed being related to the prop
> change more than the VG's. Any chance of putting the old prop back on to
> know for sure?
>
> I'm glad, but not surprised, to see VG's made such a nice difference in a
> MK III X!
>
> --------
> Jim Hefner
> Tucson, AZ
> Do Not Archive
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=123394#123394
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: firestar prop size? |
Thanks Jack and John. I may try cutting the ends, or I may just have to pick up
an adjustable prop at Oshkosh.
Bryan Dever
do not archive
>
> If your engine is running fine and you do not wish to purchase a new propeller,
> make a fixture and start cutting the tips off the propeller. Take no more that
> a half and inch at a time, and fly with it after cutting to see how it performs.
> If the engine does not come up to speed take another half inch off. When you
get
> the engine speed where you want it, check the balance.
>
> Jack B. Hart FF004
> Winchester, IN
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru 2 cylinder - is it real |
It's real - seen at Wagga 2006 - but don't know if it will make production.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=123512#123512
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Control Surface Hinges |
John H,
Picked info on hinges from the Challenger list. Info was related to loosening
Hinges and rivets on some Challenger builds. One gent said he bedded his
hinges in epoxy on all his builds and never had one come loose.
Only thing related to Kolbs is my desire to build as safe an aircraft as
possible. Have never heard of this problem on a Kolb, although I have seen one
or
two loose hinge rivets on Kolbs for whatever reason.
Today I installed one of the hinges on an elevator. After seeing how tight
they pulled up to the spar, now don't think epoxy is necessary. With the edge
distance specified, there isn't much edge hanging out.
Mike,
Took your advice and drilled the hinges, but used safety wire instead. Looked
like the head of a cotter pin could jam ???
Thanks all for the input.
Coming along slower then had hoped, but may be in the air before the end of
the year yet.
John Ratcliffe
************************************** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators - Flight test report. |
Its very possible that the entire speed difference in my Kolb could be related
to my prop change, more on this in a differnt post...
You definately want the VG's on the wingtips, so that they dont stall before the
inner portion. With the vortex generators on the wingtips, better aileron control
is maintaned at slow speed and in stalls, which is a huge safety advantege.
Having VG's along the entire leingth of the wing is the best thing, I would
not want to take some VG's off the wing and reduce the performance I have
gained. I would just buy more before I would do that.
I did not put VG's on the tail. The tail generates downforce, so when the tail
stalls, it goes up... I have not seen any evidence of the tail stalling, I
can touch the tailwheel first if I want, which tells me the tail is pushing down
(not stalled) at my slowest speeds. VG's on the tail could change its handling
though, so if I ever wanted to change the way the plane feels, VG's could
make landings easier, or harder. The only way to know this would be flight
testing with VG's on the tail... In my case im very happy and dont need VG's on
my tail. Every plane is different, so I can definately see that others might
benefit from VG's on the tail.
I got the VG 's from www.landshorter.com and installed them exactly to their specs 10 % wing chord, 2.5 inches apart, and a very important and critical specification is that they be angled at a 15 degree angle to the airstream. The land shorter Vortex Generators have been optimized in both shape and size, so its well worth spending the 100 bucks to buy 100 of them that are perfect aerodynamically rather than try to make them. Extra VG's are only 1.50 each, so if I ever want to try them on the tail I will just spend 40 bucks and buy more. The VG's are wonderful, and there is absolutely nothing else that one could do to add this much more performance to a Kolb for 100 bucks.
Mike Bigelow
MK III Xtra Rotax 912-S
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=123530#123530
Message 20
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| Subject: | Kolb Rigging - Flaps and Ailerons |
I have a MK-III Extra with seperate ailerons and flaps. I been doing some adjusting
of my flaps and ailerons to try to find the best way to rig them. It seems
to me that the bottom of each being flat with the wing in flight would be
best combination of speed and low speed capability, but that is just a guess.
Maybe having them droop just a bit would help my slow speed handling without
hurting my cruise speed to much...
What have you guys found ?? Anyone done any testing having the flaps and ailerons
rigged slightly up or down, and what is your favorite way to rig your Kolb
?
Mike
MK III Xtra 912-S
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=123537#123537
Attachments:
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Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Oshkosh 2007 |
I hope you get this in time, a friend of mine wants to go, which changes all
the weight and fuel and stops. He might be late so I am certian I can't
promise anything now. But I hope to get to the flyin.
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