Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:52 AM - Re: Re: Vortex Generators - Flight test report. (Ed Chmielewski)
2. 09:40 AM - Re: new/old Kolber (Thom Riddle)
3. 09:50 AM - Re: Kolb Rigging - Flaps and Ailerons (Eugene Zimmerman)
4. 10:17 AM - Firestar aileron chord length (Thom Riddle)
5. 10:19 AM - Re: Kolb Rigging - Flaps and Ailerons (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
6. 12:58 PM - Re: new/old Kolber (grabo172)
7. 02:13 PM - Aircraft Trailer / Mobile Hangar FOR SALE (Thom Riddle)
8. 02:18 PM - Re: Firestar aileron chord length (planecrazzzy)
9. 02:22 PM - Re: Vortex Generators - Flight test report. (jimhefner)
10. 02:48 PM - Re: Firestar aileron chord length (R. Hankins)
11. 04:33 PM - Flying characteristics- Kolb Firestar vs. Quicksilver Sprint (John H Murphy)
12. 04:51 PM - Re: Flying characteristics- Kolb Firestar vs. Quicksilver Sprint (DBforfun@aol.com)
13. 04:53 PM - Re: Flying characteristics- Kolb Firestar vs. Quicksilver Sprint (Robert Laird)
14. 05:08 PM - mk lll kolb for sale in florida.... (Arksey@aol.com)
15. 05:20 PM - Flying characteristics- Kolb Firestar vs. Quicksilver Sprint (Lanny Fetterman)
16. 05:58 PM - Re: Flying characteristics- Kolb Firestar vs. Quicksilver Sprint (DANIEL WALTER)
17. 06:01 PM - Re: Firestar aileron chord length (R. Hankins)
18. 06:14 PM - Re: Flying characteristics- Kolb Firestar vs. Quicksilver Sprint (Jim Kmet)
19. 06:19 PM - Re: Flying characteristics- Kolb Firestar vs. Quicksilver Sprin (R. Hankins)
20. 07:20 PM - Re: Re: Flying characteristics- Kolb Firestar vs. Quicksilver Sprin (Malcolmbru@aol.com)
21. 11:09 PM - Re: Flying characteristics- Kolb Firestar vs. Quicksilver Sprin (R. Hankins)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators - Flight test report. |
Hi Larry,
A very uncomfortable porpoising at least, if you're lucky. Elevator
control reversal and departure from controlled flight, if you're having a
real bad day.
VG's on the tail may be a bit of overkill, but they wouldn't hurt
IMHO.
The 2.5-inch spacing seems way overkill, compared to the GA aircraft
I've flown with STC'd VGs.
Ed in JXN
MkII/503
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrell@fmtcblue.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 12:57 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Vortex Generators - Flight test report.
>
(Snip)
> Just what happens when the tail stalls?
>
> Larry C
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| Subject: | Re: new/old Kolber |
I changed the subject to Tail Dolly
To preclude the need to fold/unfold the tail every flight, I built a simple dolly
to hold the tail tube and the wings tilted up to clear the tail wires.
Attached are three photos.
Thom in Buffalo
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=123605#123605
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb Rigging - Flaps and Ailerons |
On Jul 13, 2007, at 12:23 AM, JetPilot wrote:
>
> What have you guys found ?? Anyone done any testing having the
> flaps and ailerons rigged slightly up or down, and what is your
> favorite way to rig your Kolb ?
I adjust them up/down according to the pitch trim desired.
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| Subject: | Firestar aileron chord length |
I've read on this list over the years that some folks have as small as 11" chord
ailerons on the early Firestar and some as big as 15". I just measured them
on on my recently bought FS 1 and they are tapered from 11" at the wing tip to
15" at the inboard in. Anyone else seen this sort of thing on an early Firestar?
I've still not flown it yet so don't know how it will compare to the other
FS 1 I had a few years ago, which had 11" ailerons if my memory is correct.
--------
Thom in Buffalo
N197BG FS1/447
do not archive
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb Rigging - Flaps and Ailerons |
As a starting point it is recommended that you rig them to be slightly down
or even with the bottom of the wing while lifting on the control surfaces a
bit to take the slack out of the control linkage.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eugene Zimmerman" <etzim62@earthlink.net>
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 12:50 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb Rigging - Flaps and Ailerons
>
>
> On Jul 13, 2007, at 12:23 AM, JetPilot wrote:
>
>>
>> What have you guys found ?? Anyone done any testing having the flaps
>> and ailerons rigged slightly up or down, and what is your favorite way
>> to rig your Kolb ?
>
>
> I adjust them up/down according to the pitch trim desired.
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: new/old Kolber |
Very Cool! Now you can be flying in about 10 minutes...
-Erik
--------
-Erik Grabowski
Kolb Firestar N197BG
CFI/CFII/LS-I
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=123643#123643
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| Subject: | Aircraft Trailer / Mobile Hangar FOR SALE |
Now that I have the new-to-me FS 1 in the hangar, the enclosed trailer I hauled
it in (900 miles) is for sale. The previous owner, Erik Grabowski, used it as
a hangar for about a year and I think the re-builder, Bryan Green did too for
a time. Obviously it is in roadworthy condition.
The INSIDE dimensions:
~24'-3" long
~7'-3" wide
~7'-0" high
~5'-10 1/2" between the wheel wells
Tires are in very good shape with lots of miles left on them. Both axles have electric
brakes but are disconnected... the way I got it.
Of course, I want as much as I can get for it, but will accept what I consider
a reasonable offer.
--------
Thom in Buffalo
N197BG FS1/447
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=123656#123656
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| Subject: | Re: Firestar aileron chord length |
Hi Thom,
My Ailerons are 11 inches also ( Stock )
Sounds like the builder on yours had one of those "Visions"
and was going to improve the design .....or at least try...
.
.
Gotta Fly...
Mike & "Jaz" in MN
.
.
.
--------
.
.
.
.
.
Do Not Archive
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| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators - Flight test report. |
I stand corrected about the reason the tail dropped being due to stall. I knew
that and misspoke. Actually, I don't know what technically was going on but
I know by adding VG's under the hor stab, it generated extra (negative) lift
or some other technical phenomena that eliminated the problem with the tail
dropping too early during flare doing stall landings with full flaperons. The
Mk III X is a much bigger and heavier plane and may not have the same characteristics,
so I was only mentioning this in case it does show a similar tendency
that was experienced with the Firefly. If it's good without them, don't change
it.
Regarding potential removal of VG's I was only referring to the outermost 6 VG's
on the wingtip area beyond the last half rib where the airfoil shape tapers
down to the outer tube, top and bottom. I didn't install VG's in that area and
had all the same benefits everyone else has enjoyed with VG's.
--------
Jim Hefner
Tucson, AZ
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| Subject: | Re: Firestar aileron chord length |
The ailerons on my KXP are large and tapered as well. I'll measure the chord and
taper and post the results when I get home from work.
Do Not Archive.
--------
Roger in Oregon
1992 KXP 503
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| Subject: | Flying characteristics- Kolb Firestar vs. Quicksilver Sprint |
Does anyone have experience with any of the Quicksilver aircraft, especially the
MX Sprint with respects to how it flys compared to the Kolb Firestar? An ultralight
instructor here in Boulder City, NV insists that the Kolb is much more
complicated to fly than any of the Quicksilver aircraft. I guess the real question
should be: Is the Kolb more forgiving than the Quicksilver???
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=123682#123682
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| Subject: | Re: Flying characteristics- Kolb Firestar vs. Quicksilver Sprint |
I have owned Quicksilver aircraft. The quicksilvers have so much drag that
they stick close to the airport. They burn up a lot of fuel to just fly. If you
actually want to fly somewhere and then get back again go with a Kolb.
The kolb is only slightly more complicated to fly but that is only if you are
learning. If you know how to fly or once you learn how to fly the Kolb is a
much better aircraft and much more enjoyable to fly. Plus you can quickly fold
it up and put it away.
Dan
In a message dated 7/13/2007 4:34:15 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
jhm9812@yahoo.com writes:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John H Murphy" <jhm9812@yahoo.com>
Does anyone have experience with any of the Quicksilver aircraft, especially
the MX Sprint with respects to how it flys compared to the Kolb Firestar? An
ultralight instructor here in Boulder City, NV insists that the Kolb is much
more complicated to fly than any of the Quicksilver aircraft. I guess the
real question should be: Is the Kolb more forgiving than the Quicksilver???
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=123682#123682
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| Subject: | Re: Flying characteristics- Kolb Firestar vs. Quicksilver Sprint |
There's absolutely NO comparison... I owned a Quicksilver 3-axis MXL
for a couple of years, and then later flew several Kolb models (and
currently own a MkIIIC)... the Kolbs all fly SO much better, much,
MUCH stronger, and more balanced and will fly hands-off (assuming they
are rigged correctly). They will also fly as slow as a Quick, but
will also fly MUCH faster. The difference is night and day. And
there is -nothing- "complicated" about flying a Kolb... I find the
Quicks more "complicated" since the stick is way off the right, and
the instrument panel (on mine) was off to the left.
I will say, though, that my Quick -- being my first ultralight -- was
probably not rigged as tightly as it could be, but, even so, I can't
imagine it being better in -any- of the characteristics than a Kolb.
As for being "forgiving"... well, that's a pretty nebulous word... two
pilots, each trained how to fly their craft properly, would probably
find each plane "forgiving".
My $0.02...
-- Robert
On 7/13/07, John H Murphy <jhm9812@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Does anyone have experience with any of the Quicksilver aircraft, especially
the MX Sprint with respects to how it flys compared to the Kolb Firestar? An ultralight
instructor here in Boulder City, NV insists that the Kolb is much more
complicated to fly than any of the Quicksilver aircraft. I guess the real question
should be: Is the Kolb more forgiving than the Quicksilver???
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=123682#123682
>
>
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| Subject: | mk lll kolb for sale in florida.... |
Hello gang,
A fellow i know has a mk lll for sale in florida....anyone interested
can call him at 863-990-8186 his name is John Guy....he has lost hangar and
is not flying the plane is reason for sale...has no email ...please contact
him and not me as I know very little about the plane.
jim Swan firestar ll 503 michigan
do not archive
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| Subject: | Flying characteristics- Kolb Firestar vs. Quicksilver Sprint |
John, I went from a Quicksilver MX to a Firestar II. The Firestar is
quicker in all respects. Lift off, climb and roll, not difficult to fly
just way quicker then the MX. You con doo it! (My Arnold Swartsnegger (sp)
impression.) Lanny Fetterman FSII N598LF
Do not archive
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| Subject: | Re: Flying characteristics- Kolb Firestar vs. Quicksilver |
Sprint
I have about 90 hours in a QS Sprint before another fellow flew it into the
trees, double surface wings and ailerons. It was a good plane.
Transitioning to a Ultrastar was no problem but going from a nose wheel to
tail dragger took some ground work.
As you may know the Ultrastar has the least forgiving landing gear of
all the Kolb designs. I love my Ultrastar and all the other Kolb designs and
other than ground control of the tail dragger don't believe either is more
forgiving than the other.
IMHO
Dan Walter
Ultrastar, UL202
Palmyra, Pa.
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "John H Murphy" <jhm9812@yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 7:33 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Flying characteristics- Kolb Firestar vs. Quicksilver
Sprint
>
> Does anyone have experience with any of the Quicksilver aircraft,
especially the MX Sprint
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Firestar aileron chord length |
Thom,
I measured my ailerons. They taper from 14-7/8" inboard to 11" at the wing tips.
I pulled my plans out to double check.
The plans call for 14-3/4" inboard and 11" outboard. It looks like the builder
of your Firestar and I both screwed up by a few fractions of an inch on the inboard
end. Other than that you have bone stock ailerons per the plans for the
original Firestar and the KXP. The drawings are dated April of '85 and Aug of
'90 respectively. Those big ailerons work great at low airspeeds.
Anybody have their plans handy? Are the aileron dimensions different on the FirestarII?
Inquiring minds want to know.....
--------
Roger in Oregon
1992 KXP 503
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| Subject: | Re: Flying characteristics- Kolb Firestar vs. Quicksilver Sprint |
I guess the real question should be: Is the Kolb more forgiving than the
Quicksilver???
If this is the real question, clarify "more forgiving" in what
respect????
Kolbs do what you ask of them, within their limitaions. I would
imagine the same is true with the Quicksilver. : ) Jim
Try Them both, with an experienced pilot/CFI
----- Original Message -----
From: DBforfun@aol.com
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 6:51 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Flying characteristics- Kolb Firestar vs.
Quicksilver Sprint
I have owned Quicksilver aircraft. The quicksilvers have so much drag
that they stick close to the airport. They burn up a lot of fuel to just
fly. If you actually want to fly somewhere and then get back again go
with a Kolb. The kolb is only slightly more complicated to fly but
that is only if you are learning. If you know how to fly or once you
learn how to fly the Kolb is a much better aircraft and much more
enjoyable to fly. Plus you can quickly fold it up and put it away.
Dan
In a message dated 7/13/2007 4:34:15 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
jhm9812@yahoo.com writes:
Does anyone have experience with any of the Quicksilver aircraft,
especially the MX Sprint with respects to how it flys compared to the
Kolb Firestar? An ultralight instructor here in Boulder City, NV insists
that the Kolb is much more complicated to fly than any of the
Quicksilver aircraft. I guess the real question should be: Is the Kolb
more forgiving than the Quicksilver???
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=123682#123682bsp; -->
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| Subject: | Re: Flying characteristics- Kolb Firestar vs. Quicksilver Sprin |
I have flown the quicksilver a little. It is primarily a rudder airplane. The
ailerons are there to give a small amount of help to the rudder. You could fly
the pattern without them most days.
The Firestar is an aileron airplane. The rudder is used most for ground work and
much less in the air.
The quicksilver also has a much greater dihedral effect. It does not want to stay
in a turn. You have to hold left stick and left rudder to stay in a left
turn. Release control pressure and the plane will right itself. The Firestar
has much less of this effect. It only take a little aileron to initiate a turn
and then the stick can be mostly neutralized except for a little added backpressure
if you want it. You then add controls the other way when you want to
stop turning.
A friend of mine is currently making the transition from Quick to Kolb and thought
the Kolb was unstable. The plane kept steepening the turn because he was
telling it to. When I explained that he did not need to hold the stick over, but
only use it to start the turn, the "instability" disappeared and he is now
comfortable with steep turns.
I don't think a Firestar is any more difficult to fly than a Quick, but they are
different.
Hope this helps a little.
--------
Roger in Oregon
1992 KXP 503
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| Subject: | Re: Flying characteristics- Kolb Firestar vs. Quicksilver |
Sprin
I also owned a kxp but with a 447. what would you rather cut a peace of
cake with? a meat tenderizing hammer or a knife? I really liked the kxp over
every Quicksilver I ever flew mal
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| Subject: | Re: Flying characteristics- Kolb Firestar vs. Quicksilver Sprin |
Mal,
Not sure what you meant by the cake thing, but I like my KXP better than any ultralight
I've flown. I have about two minutes of RV-4 stick time, and I have
to admit it was more fun than my KXP.
Do not archive
--------
Roger in Oregon
1992 KXP 503
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=123735#123735
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