Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:25 AM - Re: propeller balance? (Jack B. Hart)
2. 06:15 AM - Re: Mk 3 steel main gear legs (Denny Rowe)
3. 06:38 AM - Re: Mk 3 steel main gear legs (Richard Girard)
4. 06:47 AM - Re: Mk 3 steel main gear legs (Richard Pike)
5. 07:03 AM - Kolb Mark III fuel tanks (Bruce Chaisson)
6. 07:31 AM - Re: Kolb Mark III fuel tanks (JetPilot)
7. 07:31 AM - Re: Kolb Mark III fuel tanks (JetPilot)
8. 10:06 AM - FS 1 First Flight questions (Thom Riddle)
9. 11:11 AM - Re: FS 1 First Flight questions (Richard Girard)
10. 11:22 AM - Re: FS 1 First Flight questions (Thom Riddle)
11. 11:31 AM - Re: FS 1 First Flight questions (Larry Cottrell)
12. 11:39 AM - Re: FS 1 First Flight questions (JetPilot)
13. 02:16 PM - Re: propeller balance? (boyd)
14. 03:03 PM - Re: FS 1 First Flight questions (Richard Pike)
15. 04:31 PM - Re: FS 1 First Flight questions (Richard Girard)
16. 04:35 PM - Re: Re: FS 1 First Flight questions (Richard Girard)
17. 04:50 PM - Re: FS 1 First Flight questions (Thom Riddle)
18. 05:01 PM - Re: Re: FS 1 First Flight questions (John Hauck)
19. 05:54 PM - Re: FS 1 First Flight questions (Thom Riddle)
20. 06:01 PM - Re: FS 1 First Flight questions (grabo172)
21. 07:17 PM - Re: Re: FS 1 First Flight questions (Earl & Mim Zimmerman)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: propeller balance? |
From: "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrell@fmtcblue.com>
............I had hoped that I would be able to smooth the plane out with
balancing the prop. It is balanced but there is still enough vibration that
it over powers the stabilization feature.
..........
Larry,
What you are seeing is the effect of torsional firing impulse on the air
frame. As the propeller moment of inertia increases it becomes more
difficult to speed or slow the propeller. The causes the firing impulse to
be transmitted back to the crank shaft, to the crank case, mounts and
finally to the air frame. If you wish to see less vibration, mount a
lighter lower inertia propeller.
You may be able to fool the camera by changing vibration frequency. Reduce
engine speed and at some speed the stabilizer should be able to keep up.
Just hope that it is a sustainable flight engine speed.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Mk 3 steel main gear legs |
Rich,
Do you still have the gear legs?
Denny
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Girard
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 8:36 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Mk 3 steel main gear legs
Colder than a well digger's knee caps here, I woosed out last night,
but got a picture today. Still in TNK tape and factory insert up to here
lines.
Rick
On 2/1/07, Denny Rowe <rowedenny@windstream.net> wrote:
Are "these"
----- Original Message -----
From: Denny Rowe
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 2:50 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Mk 3 steel main gear legs
Are this legs for a Mk-3 Classic?
Do you still have them?
Pic?
Denny Rowe
rowedenny@windstream.net
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Girard
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 11:44 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Mk 3 steel main gear legs
When I was in the midst of main gear straightening caused by my
horrible landing technique, I thought the way out was TNK's steel gear
legs. Now that I am pretty happy with my landings, I know I'm not going
to install them. $350 for the pair, plus shipping.
Rick
--
Rick Girard
"Ya'll drop on in"
takes on a whole new meaning
when you live at the airport.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">
http://forums.matronics.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 1/26/2007 11:11 AM
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">
http://forums.matronics.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
Date: 1/31/2007 3:16 PM
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
http://forums.matronics.com
--
Rick Girard
"Ya'll drop on in"
takes on a whole new meaning
when you live at the airport.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
2/1/2007 2:28 PM
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Mk 3 steel main gear legs |
Yep, still on my "parts I'll use someday" rack.
Rick
On 7/16/07, Denny Rowe <rowedenny@windstream.net> wrote:
>
> Rich,
> Do you still have the gear legs?
>
> Denny
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Richard Girard <jindoguy@gmail.com>
> *To:* kolb-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Friday, February 02, 2007 8:36 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Kolb-List: Mk 3 steel main gear legs
>
> Colder than a well digger's knee caps here, I woosed out last night, but
> got a picture today. Still in TNK tape and factory insert up to here lines.
>
> Rick
>
> On 2/1/07, Denny Rowe <rowedenny@windstream.net> wrote:
> >
> > Are "these"
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > *From:* Denny Rowe <rowedenny@windstream.net>
> > *To:* kolb-list@matronics.com
> > *Sent:* Thursday, February 01, 2007 2:50 PM
> > *Subject:* Re: Kolb-List: Mk 3 steel main gear legs
> >
> > Are this legs for a Mk-3 Classic?
> > Do you still have them?
> > Pic?
> > Denny Rowe
> > rowedenny@windstream.net
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > *From:* Richard Girard <jindoguy@gmail.com>
> > *To:* kolb-list@matronics.com
> > *Sent:* Saturday, January 27, 2007 11:44 AM
> > *Subject:* Kolb-List: Mk 3 steel main gear legs
> >
> > When I was in the midst of main gear straightening caused by my horrible
> > landing technique, I thought the way out was TNK's steel gear legs. Now that
> > I am pretty happy with my landings, I know I'm not going to install them.
> > $350 for the pair, plus shipping.
> >
> > Rick
> >
> > --
> > Rick Girard
> > "Ya'll drop on in"
> > takes on a whole new meaning
> > when you live at the airport.
> >
> > *
> >
> > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">
> > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
> > href="http://forums.matronics.com">
> > http://forums.matronics.com
> > *
> >
> > ------------------------------
> > Date: 1/26/2007 11:11 AM
> >
> > *
> >
> > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">
> > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
> > href="http://forums.matronics.com">
> > http://forums.matronics.com
> > *
> >
> > ------------------------------
> > Date: 1/31/2007 3:16 PM
> >
> > *
> > <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List <http://forums.matronics.com>http://forums.matronics.com*
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Rick Girard
> "Ya'll drop on in"
> takes on a whole new meaning
> when you live at the airport.
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: 2/1/2007 2:28 PM
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Girard
"Ya'll drop on in"
takes on a whole new meaning
when you live at the airport.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Mk 3 steel main gear legs |
I have a set of tapered steel MKIII gear legs, they are on a shelf and I
don't plan to use them. If you are interested, call me off list -
richard@bcchapel.org
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Girard
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 9:38 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Mk 3 steel main gear legs
Yep, still on my "parts I'll use someday" rack.
Rick
On 7/16/07, Denny Rowe <rowedenny@windstream.net > wrote:
Rich,
Do you still have the gear legs?
Denny
Message 5
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| Subject: | Kolb Mark III fuel tanks |
Does anyone know where to buy 8 gal. plastic fuel tanks to replace the standard
5 gal ones? I know Kolb is selling 6 gal replacements but have heard there are
some 8 gal ones out there. Thanks for the help.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=124072#124072
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb Mark III fuel tanks |
I dont know the website, but 8 gallons would be great if they drop right in.
I have been wanting to put two 10 gallon tanks in my MK III Xtra, but it will
require cutting the current tubing and welding a new frame for them to sit in,
so I have been putting it off. There is plenty of room for two 10 gallon tanks
or even bigger just by redoing the frames they sit in... If I could just
buy 8 gallon tanks that would drop right in, it would be so easy I just might
do it. If you do find them let us know where you can get them.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=124078#124078
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb Mark III fuel tanks |
I dont know the website, but 8 gallons would be great if they drop right in.
I have been wanting to put two 10 gallon tanks in my MK III Xtra, but it will
require cutting the current tubing and welding a new frame for them to sit in,
so I have been putting it off. There is plenty of room for two 10 gallon tanks
or even bigger just by redoing the frames they sit in... If I could just
buy 8 gallon tanks that would drop right in, it would be so easy I just might
do it. If you do find them let us know where you can get them.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=124077#124077
Message 8
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| Subject: | FS 1 First Flight questions |
I flew the new-to-me FS 1 / 447 this morning and discovered a couple things that
I could use some help with.
1) CHTs are low and EGTs are high during normal cruise speeds. They were in the
normal range only during full power climb at Vy.
My conundrum: I believe that by increasing the prop pitch a bit this should improve
both the CHT and EGT readings. However, its current pitch gives me 6,500
rpm at WOT in level flight, which I've always thought was just about right. The
prop is a 2-blade Powerfin x 62".
What should I do?
2) With cruise power (5800 and higher), the elevator seems to be trimmed at higher
IAS than I want or expect, i.e. it wants to descend with hands off. At lower
power settings it seems to be trimmed at about 50 mph IAS, which I like. Is
this an engine tilt(inclination) problem or something else?
I don't recall either of these situations in my old early FS. It was trim neutral
at all speeds and EGTs and CHTs stayed in normal even when descending at low
power.
Thanks for any guidance.
--------
Thom in Buffalo
N197BG FS1/447
do not archive
--------------------
"Blind respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
Albert Einstein
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=124110#124110
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: FS 1 First Flight questions |
Sounds like you might want to check the carb needle for the position of the
clip. If it's not where Rotax or Bing recommends, put it back there. Since
this is a new engine to you, check to see that the needle doesn't easily
rotate in the groove, that the little O-ring is in place, and the plastic
shoe has the relief for the O-ring. And of course, the needle goes in before
the plastic shoe.
If all the above are per spec, try raising the clip one notch (lowering the
needle and leaning the midrange) and monitor CHT and EGT. CHT should go up
and EGT should come down.
Rick
On 7/16/07, Thom Riddle <riddletr@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> I flew the new-to-me FS 1 / 447 this morning and discovered a couple
> things that I could use some help with.
> 1) CHTs are low and EGTs are high during normal cruise speeds. They were
> in the normal range only during full power climb at Vy.
>
> My conundrum: I believe that by increasing the prop pitch a bit this
> should improve both the CHT and EGT readings. However, its current pitch
> gives me 6,500 rpm at WOT in level flight, which I've always thought was
> just about right. The prop is a 2-blade Powerfin x 62".
>
> What should I do?
>
> 2) With cruise power (5800 and higher), the elevator seems to be trimmed
> at higher IAS than I want or expect, i.e. it wants to descend with hands
> off. At lower power settings it seems to be trimmed at about 50 mph IAS,
> which I like. Is this an engine tilt(inclination) problem or something else?
>
> I don't recall either of these situations in my old early FS. It was trim
> neutral at all speeds and EGTs and CHTs stayed in normal even when
> descending at low power.
>
> Thanks for any guidance.
>
> --------
> Thom in Buffalo
> N197BG FS1/447
> do not archive
> --------------------
> "Blind respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
> Albert Einstein
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=124110#124110
>
>
--
Rick Girard
"Ya'll drop on in"
takes on a whole new meaning
when you live at the airport.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: FS 1 First Flight questions |
Rick,
If what you suggest leans the mixture at mid-range (it will), then the EGT's would
go up, no?
Thom in Buffalo
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=124123#124123
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: FS 1 First Flight questions |
try raising the clip one notch (lowering the needle and leaning the
midrange) and monitor CHT and EGT. CHT should go up and EGT should come
down.
Isn't this backwards? If his CHT's are high now in midrange, it would
seem to follow that he needs more fuel to cool it down.
Larry C
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: FS 1 First Flight questions |
The trim problem you are having is from flying a high thrust mounted pusher airplane,
that is normal for that plane. The more thrust you have, the more the
plane will tend to pitch down. Take off the power, and the airplane goes up.
This has nothing to do with the thrust angle, its easier than that. All you
need to trim the elevator to fly straight and level with cruise power and speed.
My MK III has a spring trim system, I just put in some nose up trim for level
flight at cruise power setting.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=124125#124125
Message 13
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| Subject: | propeller balance? |
I had a friend that was going to build a model helo blade balancer... it
was to consist of an accelerometer and a processor that would take all the
guess work out of balancing the prop.. I found when balancing a helo
blade.. You could static balance it like you did in the photo.. But when
it was spinning up to speed it still needed some fine tuning. I used a
wrap of electrical tape at the mid blade ( the cg of the blade) and tried
it to see if it was worse or better.. Then adjusted it from there. either
more or less tape on that blade or the other.. I will try and see if my
friend built something he could market or sell me and find out how much $$$
Boyd
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: FS 1 First Flight questions |
1) Put a bit more pitch in the prop. It is true that 6500 is the ideal RPM,
however you won't hurt anything by adding some pitch, and that will both
raise your CHT and lower your EGT. Dropping the needle one clip lower as
someone else suggested will raise both your CHT and EGT.
If you try a bit of pitch and don't like the results, you haven't hurt
anything.
2) Try a couple extra washers under the aft end of the engine. If you don't
like it, put it back like it was.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 1:05 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: FS 1 First Flight questions
>
> I flew the new-to-me FS 1 / 447 this morning and discovered a couple
> things that I could use some help with.
> 1) CHTs are low and EGTs are high during normal cruise speeds. They were
> in the normal range only during full power climb at Vy.
>
> My conundrum: I believe that by increasing the prop pitch a bit this
> should improve both the CHT and EGT readings. However, its current pitch
> gives me 6,500 rpm at WOT in level flight, which I've always thought was
> just about right. The prop is a 2-blade Powerfin x 62".
>
> What should I do?
>
> 2) With cruise power (5800 and higher), the elevator seems to be trimmed
> at higher IAS than I want or expect, i.e. it wants to descend with hands
> off. At lower power settings it seems to be trimmed at about 50 mph IAS,
> which I like. Is this an engine tilt(inclination) problem or something
> else?
>
> I don't recall either of these situations in my old early FS. It was trim
> neutral at all speeds and EGTs and CHTs stayed in normal even when
> descending at low power.
>
> Thanks for any guidance.
>
> --------
> Thom in Buffalo
> N197BG FS1/447
> do not archive
> --------------------
> "Blind respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
> Albert Einstein
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=124110#124110
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: FS 1 First Flight questions |
Larry, The condition Thom quoted was low CHT's and high EGT's with the prop
pitched correctly. Since the aircraft is new to Thom, the first thing to
verify is that everything is set up stock and the easiest thing to check, in
my humble opinion, is the needle setting and the correctness of the needle
setup. Also, he says the temps are all good when at WOT. This suggests that
the main jet is stock or very close to it.
All the things I listed should be checked immediately after purchase on any
engine carrying Bing carbs and annually thereafter to insure that the needle
is protected from vibration damage. All but one of my aircraft engines came
with some portion of the vibration preventatives missing or installed
incorrectly. The 582 I inspected at Sun n Fun had damage to both needles,
one almost to the point of failure. When that happens the fire goes out. So,
my idea was, why not do the easy inspection of a known problem area first,
make sure all the jetting is stock and move on from there, once it's certain
everything is up to snuff? Even if you have to replace every piece I
mentioned, it's only about $50 a carb, so it's probably the cheapest
potential life saving repair you'll ever do, too.
Rick
On 7/16/07, Larry Cottrell <lcottrell@fmtcblue.com> wrote:
>
>
> try raising the clip one notch (lowering the needle and leaning the
> midrange) and monitor CHT and EGT. CHT should go up and EGT should come
> down.
>
> Isn't this backwards? If his CHT's are high now in midrange, it would seem
> to follow that he needs more fuel to cool it down.
> Larry C
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Girard
"Ya'll drop on in"
takes on a whole new meaning
when you live at the airport.
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: FS 1 First Flight questions |
I guess my logic would be that there is less fuel being burned on the way
out the exhaust port making the EGT go down or remain unchanged.
Rick
On 7/16/07, Thom Riddle <riddletr@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Rick,
>
> If what you suggest leans the mixture at mid-range (it will), then the
> EGT's would go up, no?
>
> Thom in Buffalo
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=124123#124123
>
>
--
Rick Girard
"Ya'll drop on in"
takes on a whole new meaning
when you live at the airport.
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: FS 1 First Flight questions |
Thanks for all the pointers. My plan is to try one thing at a time and see what
the results are and change it back and try another if the previous made it worse
or didn't improve it.
I'll let you know what each change did for our collective education.
--------
Thom in Buffalo
N197BG FS1/447
do not archive
--------------------
"Blind respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
Albert Einstein
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=124197#124197
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: FS 1 First Flight questions |
|I guess my logic would be that there is less fuel being burned on the
way
| out the exhaust port making the EGT go down or remain unchanged.
|
| Rick
Rick/Richard:
My experience with 2 strokes has been:
1-Unload the prop, EGT goes up.
2-Load the prop, EGT goes down.
How did I discover this? Watching the EGT on my Ultrastar in 1984, as
I pulled the nose up and loaded the prop, and pushed the nose over and
unloaded the prop.
3-Lean it midrange, EGT goes up. Richen it up in midrange, EGT goes
down.
4-Full throttle is same as midrange.
Finally, I don't worry about CHT, except to keep it under the red
line.
My experience and opinion only. The two stroke operates best when it
is pitched to turn max continuous rpm, WOT, straight and level flight.
I find the EGT will be right in the ball park, and one will experience
the best climb and cruise with a prop that is not "in flight
adjustable."
I prop my boats the same way as I do my airplanes. Gives me the best
"out of the hole" and cruise performance.
For what it is worth,
john h
mkIII
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: FS 1 First Flight questions |
John,
Thanks. That is what I was thinking. Unfortunately, with the prop pitched for WOT
level flight at 6500 RPM (max continuous), I get very high EGTs. I'm going
to try lowering the clip one notch so as not to loose the 6500 rpm during WOT.
IF that solves it, then I couldn't have asked for a simpler solution. I'll post
the results.
--------
Thom in Buffalo
N197BG FS1/447
do not archive
--------------------
"Blind respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
Albert Einstein
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| Subject: | Re: FS 1 First Flight questions |
Thom,
Your carb needle is set at the second from the bottom, o-ringed in place and under
the cup. I put it there a few weeks ago.
I've been researching the EGT for the last year, and if you notice in the Rotax
manual for the 447, they don't give an EGT spec... just a CHT.
I've even talked to a few Rotax repairman about it and they say as long as the
CHT is OK, you are pitched for 6500 RPM at WOT, that's OK.
With that advice and the manual not having the EGT limit for the 447, I felt confident
in the engine.
When it all comes down to it, it is what YOU feel comfortable with.
Hope that helps a little. (at least about where your needle is set)
--------
-Erik Grabowski
N?????
CFI/CFII/LS-I
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| Subject: | Re: FS 1 First Flight questions |
grabo172 wrote:
>
> Thom,
>
> Your carb needle is set at the second from the bottom, o-ringed in place and
under the cup. I put it there a few weeks ago.
>
> I've been researching the EGT for the last year, and if you notice in the Rotax
manual for the 447, they don't give an EGT spec... just a CHT.
>
> I've even talked to a few Rotax repairman about it and they say as long as the
CHT is OK, you are pitched for 6500 RPM at WOT, that's OK.
>
> With that advice and the manual not having the EGT limit for the 447, I felt
confident in the engine.
>
> When it all comes down to it, it is what YOU feel comfortable with.
>
> Hope that helps a little. (at least about where your needle is set)
>
> --------
> -Erik Grabowski
> N?????
> CFI/CFII/LS-I
>
That's exactly how the local 447 drivers around here do it. Jet and Prop
by the book and forget the EGT. ~ Earl
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