Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:33 AM - Re: FS 1 First Flight questions (Thom Riddle)
2. 06:00 AM - Re: Re: FS 1 First Flight questions (Richard Girard)
3. 06:59 AM - Re: FS 1 First Flight questions (Richard Pike)
4. 07:04 AM - Re: FS 1 First Flight questions (tlongo)
5. 08:13 AM - Re: Re: FS 1 First Flight questions (Richard Pike)
6. 08:39 AM - Two Stroke Prop and Carb Tuning (John Hauck)
7. 08:39 AM - Re: Kolb Mark III fuel tanks (Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL)
8. 09:47 AM - Re: Re: Flying characteristics- Kolb Firestar vs. Quicksilver Sprin (Dana Hague)
9. 09:48 AM - Re: Two Stroke Prop and Carb Tuning (Richard Pike)
10. 10:13 AM - Re: FS 1 First Flight questions (Eugene Zimmerman)
11. 10:19 AM - Re: FS 1 First Flight questions (Richard Girard)
12. 10:36 AM - Re: Re: Kolb Mark III fuel tanks (Richard Girard)
13. 11:25 AM - Re: Two Stroke Prop and Carb Tuning (John Hauck)
14. 11:34 AM - Re: Re: Flying characteristics- Kolb Firestar vs. Quicksilver Sprin (John Hauck)
15. 11:36 AM - Re: FS 1 First Flight questions (John Hauck)
16. 01:28 PM - Re: FS 1 First Flight questions (Thom Riddle)
17. 02:58 PM - Mushy control stick (Paul Petty)
18. 03:02 PM - Re: Mushy control stick (Paul Petty)
19. 04:22 PM - Re: Kolb Mark III fuel tanks (JetPilot)
20. 06:23 PM - Re: FS 1 First Flight questions (Eugene Zimmerman)
21. 06:52 PM - Re: FS 1 First Flight questions (John Hauck)
22. 09:48 PM - Re: Mushy control stick (lucien)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: FS 1 First Flight questions |
Erik,
I believe that the absence of an explicit EGT range specification for the 447 in
the Rotax 2-stroke Operators Manual was an accidental omission, not an indication
that this particular engine has no limits. Since all the air-cooled Rotax
aircraft engines are built similarly using similar technologies, I am taking
the 503 numbers, a close relative of the 447, as proxy for the 447 in regards
to normal EGT range. I am getting mid-range EGTs around 1200-1250 and that is
too hot for this engine.
For what its worth:
1- Mike Stratman of CPS, says that 1200F EGT is too hot.
2- Rotax-service.com says that the normal EGT range for all Rotax aircooled engines
is 860-1080F with a max of 1200F.
3- I don't know what the Rotax gurus at Lockwood etc say but I will find out.
--------
Thom in Buffalo
N197BG FS1/447
do not archive
--------------------
"Blind respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
Albert Einstein
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=124307#124307
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: FS 1 First Flight questions |
Thom, I checked the Bing manual for the proper clip position on the needle
of the type 54 carb. All versions of the 447 should have the clip set to the
#2 position (from the top), unless you have the 447DC without the intake
silencer installed, then it goes to #3.
It should be noted that the 447DC w/o silencer uses a different needle (6G1)
than the other models (15K2).
447 and 447DC with the silencer use the same needle, but a different needle
jet. The 447 uses a 2.70 needle jet, the 447DC uses a 2.68.
Hope this helps.
Rick
On 7/17/07, Thom Riddle <riddletr@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Erik,
>
> I believe that the absence of an explicit EGT range specification for the
> 447 in the Rotax 2-stroke Operators Manual was an accidental omission, not
> an indication that this particular engine has no limits. Since all the
> air-cooled Rotax aircraft engines are built similarly using similar
> technologies, I am taking the 503 numbers, a close relative of the 447, as
> proxy for the 447 in regards to normal EGT range. I am getting mid-range
> EGTs around 1200-1250 and that is too hot for this engine.
>
> For what its worth:
> 1- Mike Stratman of CPS, says that 1200F EGT is too hot.
> 2- Rotax-service.com says that the normal EGT range for all Rotax
> aircooled engines is 860-1080F with a max of 1200F.
> 3- I don't know what the Rotax gurus at Lockwood etc say but I will find
> out.
>
> --------
> Thom in Buffalo
> N197BG FS1/447
> do not archive
> --------------------
> "Blind respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
> Albert Einstein
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=124307#124307
>
>
--
Rick Girard
"Ya'll drop on in"
takes on a whole new meaning
when you live at the airport.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: FS 1 First Flight questions |
Been thinking about this and came up with a theory I'll throw out for
appropriate abuse:
While it is SOP that a correctly propped engine will give you good EGT's and
CHT's while bumping red line in level flight, what would be your results if
the prop diameter was slightly excessive for your engine?
Here is my thinking (your results may vary): if the diameter is slightly too
large, then in order to get the engine to turn it's appropriate max RPM,
(say 6500) you would need to dial in slightly less pitch than normal, due to
the excess load imposed by the excess diameter. Then when reducing the RPM
to cruise, the prop is now somewhat under pitched, and the EGT is going to
be abnormally high, and the CHT abnormally low.
So relative to your situation, any way you can borrow a 2 blade 60" prop to
compare and see what happens? Or even a 62" Warp or Ivo, just in case
Powerfin (with it's thicker airfoil) is causing a slightly higher load, and
requiring a slightly lower pitch?
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 1:05 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: FS 1 First Flight questions
>
> I flew the new-to-me FS 1 / 447 this morning and discovered a couple
> things that I could use some help with.
> 1) CHTs are low and EGTs are high during normal cruise speeds. They were
> in the normal range only during full power climb at Vy.
>
> My conundrum: I believe that by increasing the prop pitch a bit this
> should improve both the CHT and EGT readings. However, its current pitch
> gives me 6,500 rpm at WOT in level flight, which I've always thought was
> just about right. The prop is a 2-blade Powerfin x 62".
>
> What should I do?
>
> 2) With cruise power (5800 and higher), the elevator seems to be trimmed
> at higher IAS than I want or expect, i.e. it wants to descend with hands
> off. At lower power settings it seems to be trimmed at about 50 mph IAS,
> which I like. Is this an engine tilt(inclination) problem or something
> else?
>
> I don't recall either of these situations in my old early FS. It was trim
> neutral at all speeds and EGTs and CHTs stayed in normal even when
> descending at low power.
>
> Thanks for any guidance.
>
> --------
> Thom in Buffalo
> N197BG FS1/447
> do not archive
> --------------------
> "Blind respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
> Albert Einstein
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=124110#124110
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: FS 1 First Flight questions |
If EGT is okay at full throttle and too high at cruse that means your main jetting
is good and needle too lean. Check the holes in sides of needle jet tube if
they have a build up that will cause a lean mixture even if your needle is set
in the correct clip setting. You can use a toothpick to clean the holes or
a piece of wire then blow out with air. Worth a try, very easy to do.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=124337#124337
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| Subject: | Re: FS 1 First Flight questions |
Not necessarily. See here:
http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/pg11.htm
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
----- Original Message -----
From: "tlongo" <tlongo@tampabay.rr.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 10:03 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: FS 1 First Flight questions
>
> If EGT is okay at full throttle and too high at cruse that means your main
> jetting is good and needle too lean. <snip>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Two Stroke Prop and Carb Tuning |
| http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/pg11.htm
| Richard Pike
Richard P:
How do you do a spark plug check?
john h
mkIII
PS: I changed to subject line to be more in line with what is being
discussed.
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb Mark III fuel tanks |
"Bruce Chaisson" asked: << Does anyone know where to buy 8 gal. plastic
fuel tanks to replace the standard 5 gal ones? I know Kolb is selling 6
gal replacements but have heard there are some 8 gal ones out there. >>
Bruce -
I, too, am interested in larger, drop-in replacement fuel tanks for my
Mark-III that will not require any cutting of structure to fit. I have
heard Quad City Challenger uses 8 (or 10?) gallon polyethylene fuel
tanks with the same square 10"x10" footprint that our Kolbs use. But I
have not verified this. Might be worth a call ...
Dennis Kirby
Mark-3, 912ul
New Mexico
Do not archive
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Flying characteristics- Kolb Firestar vs. Quicksilver |
Sprin
At 06:40 AM 7/14/2007, lucien wrote:
>
>My first UL was a quicksilver MX super, an older design which was the
>aerobatic version in the MX series (though I trained in a 2-place sprint).
>
>But I pretty much agree with the comparisons made by the rest of the guys.
>The really significant differences flying-wise are the tailwheel aspect
>and the lack of dihedral in the Kolb over the stock sprint.
I expect to fly my US pretty soon... with about 10 hours in a Quick (not
counting the weightshift Quick I damn near killed myself in) and 400 hours
in a Taylorcraft (so the tailwheel doesn't worry me), anything I should
bear in mind on my first flight in the US?
>...The lack of dihedral though has so many other advantages, though, I'd
>recommend removing it even on the quicksilver (which mark smith can help with).
Along with a Super (I miss doing aerobatics) that's something I'd like to
fly (a Mark Smith Quickalike, I mean)... the Quick I was flying was bone
stock, beat up and sloppy, pretty much a pig.
-Dana
--
--
The only correct outcome to an armed robbery attempt is a dead armed robber.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Two Stroke Prop and Carb Tuning |
How DO I it, or how SHOULD I do it?
There's a difference you know... <grin>
I have always heard that the ideal way to do it is to be running your engine
at the RPM & loading you want to check for, leave it there for a couple
minutes, and then turn the engine off and then check it. Since there is a
difference in prop loading in flight than on the ground, that would mean
being right above a suitable strip to chop the engine, glide down, and then
pull the plug out and look at it. That should be the ideal to give you an
unadulterated reading. Probably running it at the RPM you wanted on the
ground would actually work close enough in practice.
The way I do it is I leave my plugs in long enough for them to be
distinctively colored (at least 15 hours) and then take them out and look at
them. (blush, kicks dirt with foot) Which tells me if the engine is running
consistently too lean, (whitish-gray) consistently too rich, (black) or more
or less right. (brown) And since the stock Rotax specified jetting gives me
temps right around 1050-1100, and the plugs are a medium brown, I actually
can't remember the last time I did a plug check. Probably the last time I
actually did a genuine, hard core, do-it-right-or-else plug check was with a
Rotax 277 in the Hummer about 24 years ago.
But thanks for asking...<grin>
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
PS - this is probably the best description of how to do it-
http://dirtbike.off-road.com/dirtbike/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=332655
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 11:35 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Two Stroke Prop and Carb Tuning
>
>
>
>
> Richard P:
>
> How do you do a spark plug check?
>
> john h
> mkIII
>
> PS: I changed to subject line to be more in line with what is being
> discussed.
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: FS 1 First Flight questions |
Ok Guys,
Ill weigh in with my $.02 on this topic.
NEVER depend entirely on your EGT gauge to adjust your carburetor.
Plug color is a better indication to go by along with using your
primer to give an extra small shot of fuel. If the rpms increase with
the extra fuel you are obviously lean of peak and should raise the
needle to enrich the fuel mixture. If the extra shot of fuel slows
the rpm or causes the engine to stumble you should lower the needle
to lean the mixture.
If you do not have a primer, sell your EGT gauge and get one. Just
kidding ,,,,,,, but do get one.
These EGT gauges are notoriously inaccurate.
Gene Z
On Jul 17, 2007, at 9:58 AM, Richard Pike wrote:
>
> Been thinking about this and came up with a theory I'll throw out
> for appropriate abuse:
> While it is SOP that a correctly propped engine will give you good
> EGT's and CHT's while bumping red line in level flight, what would
> be your results if the prop diameter was slightly excessive for
> your engine?
>
> Here is my thinking (your results may vary): if the diameter is
> slightly too large, then in order to get the engine to turn it's
> appropriate max RPM, (say 6500) you would need to dial in slightly
> less pitch than normal, due to the excess load imposed by the
> excess diameter. Then when reducing the RPM to cruise, the prop is
> now somewhat under pitched, and the EGT is going to be abnormally
> high, and the CHT abnormally low.
>
> So relative to your situation, any way you can borrow a 2 blade 60"
> prop to compare and see what happens? Or even a 62" Warp or Ivo,
> just in case Powerfin (with it's thicker airfoil) is causing a
> slightly higher load, and requiring a slightly lower pitch?
>
> Richard Pike
> MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr@gmail.com>
> To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 1:05 PM
> Subject: Kolb-List: FS 1 First Flight questions
>
>
>>
>> I flew the new-to-me FS 1 / 447 this morning and discovered a
>> couple things that I could use some help with.
>> 1) CHTs are low and EGTs are high during normal cruise speeds.
>> They were in the normal range only during full power climb at Vy.
>>
>> My conundrum: I believe that by increasing the prop pitch a bit
>> this should improve both the CHT and EGT readings. However, its
>> current pitch gives me 6,500 rpm at WOT in level flight, which
>> I've always thought was just about right. The prop is a 2-blade
>> Powerfin x 62".
>>
>> What should I do?
>>
>> 2) With cruise power (5800 and higher), the elevator seems to be
>> trimmed at higher IAS than I want or expect, i.e. it wants to
>> descend with hands off. At lower power settings it seems to be
>> trimmed at about 50 mph IAS, which I like. Is this an engine tilt
>> (inclination) problem or something else?
>>
>> I don't recall either of these situations in my old early FS. It
>> was trim neutral at all speeds and EGTs and CHTs stayed in normal
>> even when descending at low power.
>>
>> Thanks for any guidance.
>>
>> --------
>> Thom in Buffalo
>> N197BG FS1/447
>> do not archive
>> --------------------
>> "Blind respect for authority is the greatest enemy of
>> truth."
>> Albert Einstein
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=124110#124110
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: FS 1 First Flight questions |
Richard, Since we're talking theory I'd tend to agree with you, but as Yogi
Berra once said, "In theory there is no difference between theory and
practice, In practice, there is."
Yes the prop unloads, but two things happen to ameliorate the engine temps.
One, the prop disk of the larger prop counters the thrust loss produced by
the lower pitch angle, so the relative amount of work done by the engine
remains pretty much the same. Two, the bleed over in the mid to high range
circuits of the carb, tends to lean out the carb as RPM drops. Rotax and
Bing have worked this out by transition circuit design and jetting options.
Rick
On 7/17/07, Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org> wrote:
>
>
> Been thinking about this and came up with a theory I'll throw out for
> appropriate abuse:
> While it is SOP that a correctly propped engine will give you good EGT's
> and
> CHT's while bumping red line in level flight, what would be your results
> if
> the prop diameter was slightly excessive for your engine?
>
> Here is my thinking (your results may vary): if the diameter is slightly
> too
> large, then in order to get the engine to turn it's appropriate max RPM,
> (say 6500) you would need to dial in slightly less pitch than normal, due
> to
> the excess load imposed by the excess diameter. Then when reducing the RPM
> to cruise, the prop is now somewhat under pitched, and the EGT is going to
> be abnormally high, and the CHT abnormally low.
>
> So relative to your situation, any way you can borrow a 2 blade 60" prop
> to
> compare and see what happens? Or even a 62" Warp or Ivo, just in case
> Powerfin (with it's thicker airfoil) is causing a slightly higher load,
> and
> requiring a slightly lower pitch?
>
> Richard Pike
> MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr@gmail.com>
> To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 1:05 PM
> Subject: Kolb-List: FS 1 First Flight questions
>
>
> >
> > I flew the new-to-me FS 1 / 447 this morning and discovered a couple
> > things that I could use some help with.
> > 1) CHTs are low and EGTs are high during normal cruise speeds. They were
> > in the normal range only during full power climb at Vy.
> >
> > My conundrum: I believe that by increasing the prop pitch a bit this
> > should improve both the CHT and EGT readings. However, its current pitch
> > gives me 6,500 rpm at WOT in level flight, which I've always thought was
> > just about right. The prop is a 2-blade Powerfin x 62".
> >
> > What should I do?
> >
> > 2) With cruise power (5800 and higher), the elevator seems to be trimmed
> > at higher IAS than I want or expect, i.e. it wants to descend with hands
> > off. At lower power settings it seems to be trimmed at about 50 mph IAS,
> > which I like. Is this an engine tilt(inclination) problem or something
> > else?
> >
> > I don't recall either of these situations in my old early FS. It was
> trim
> > neutral at all speeds and EGTs and CHTs stayed in normal even when
> > descending at low power.
> >
> > Thanks for any guidance.
> >
> > --------
> > Thom in Buffalo
> > N197BG FS1/447
> > do not archive
> > --------------------
> > "Blind respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
> > Albert Einstein
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=124110#124110
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
--
Rick Girard
"Ya'll drop on in"
takes on a whole new meaning
when you live at the airport.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb Mark III fuel tanks |
Before you make any decisions about changing tanks, try taking out one of
your 5 gallon tanks. Once your plane is built, they are a bearcat to remove.
When I asked Travis if the 6 gallon tanks were as much a PITA to get in and
out as the 5 gallon, the answer was "Yeah, pretty much the same." If the
footprint doesn't change, the only place to go for extra capacity is up, and
that takes up the room required to turn the tank and drop it in.
Rick
On 7/17/07, Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL <Dennis.Kirby@kirtland.af.mil> wrote:
>
> Dennis.Kirby@kirtland.af.mil>
>
>
> "Bruce Chaisson" asked: << Does anyone know where to buy 8 gal. plastic
> fuel tanks to replace the standard 5 gal ones? I know Kolb is selling 6
> gal replacements but have heard there are some 8 gal ones out there. >>
>
> Bruce -
>
> I, too, am interested in larger, drop-in replacement fuel tanks for my
> Mark-III that will not require any cutting of structure to fit. I have
> heard Quad City Challenger uses 8 (or 10?) gallon polyethylene fuel
> tanks with the same square 10"x10" footprint that our Kolbs use. But I
> have not verified this. Might be worth a call ...
>
> Dennis Kirby
> Mark-3, 912ul
> New Mexico
> Do not archive
>
>
--
Rick Girard
"Ya'll drop on in"
takes on a whole new meaning
when you live at the airport.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Two Stroke Prop and Carb Tuning |
your engine
| at the RPM & loading you want to check for, leave it there for a
couple
| minutes, and then turn the engine off and then check it. Since there
is a
| difference in prop loading in flight than on the ground, that would
mean
| being right above a suitable strip to chop the engine, glide down,
and then
| pull the plug out and look at it. |
| Richard Pike
Richard:
That is the way I did it. Past tense.
Haven't done one in a while. I long while.
Normally, the engineers that design and build these things know what
they are doing. Two strokes are unique when combined with an
airplane. Suddenly we have a propeller and prop loading. ;-( For
most of us folks down here near sea level and up to 1,500 or 2,000
feet, that Rotax two stroke is jetted, timed, and equipped with the
correct heat range spark plug to do the job, with nothing for the
pilot/builder to do but dial in the correct pitch to load the prop.
Always the same for me. WOT, straight and level flight, just bump the
red line which is max continuous rpm for me because I fly with a prop
that is not inflight adjustable. This will put my egt and cht right
in the green arc on a Rotax two stroke, and other brands also.
912UL and 912ULS it is 5,500 rpm
Rotax two strokes is 6,500 rpm
Pushing the EGT redline to squeeze more power and less fuel burn is
also pushing the engine failure factor with a two stroke, IMHO.
john h
mkIII
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Flying characteristics- Kolb Firestar vs. Quicksilver |
Sprin
anything I should
| bear in mind on my first flight in the US?
|
|
| -Dana
Dana:
A couple things:
1-Don't forget to fly the airplane.
2-Ultrastars do not fly below the stall speed, even though they will
fly in a mush at a rapid rate of descent.
3-Gravity is not prejudice.
Most folks that have trouble with an Ultrastar usually do so on
landing. They are not accustomed to sitting out in the open, in front
of the wing, get the airplane in a below stall speed mush, and spready
the gear. Have personally witnessed this process several times over
the years.
Take care and have a fun flight.
john h
mkIII
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: FS 1 First Flight questions |
Just
| kidding ,,,,,,, but do get one.
|
| These EGT gauges are notoriously inaccurate.
|
| Gene Z
Gene:
You can get the same results, in flight, with the enricher. Not only
on the two strokes, but it also works on the 912 series engines.
Old fashioned, using the enricher on all my engines.
john h
mkIII
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| Subject: | Re: FS 1 First Flight questions |
My my! What great responses this question has triggered. Keep them coming. Meanwhile,
I'll tell you what I did this morning and the results.
1) I removed the spark plugs to see what story they would tell. They both looked
a bit lean, not terribly so, but definitely lighter than the tan/light brown
that I like to see. They were grayish white. This tells me that the engine was
indeed running a bit leaner than it should. The gaps were in range and the plugs
not worn much. However, the gaskets that come on the plugs were in place
and should not be when using spark plug ring type CHT thermocouples, so I cut
them off and applied anit-seize to the threads and reinstalled, and torqued them
to spec.
2) I opened up the top of the carburetor and removed the contents. The clip was
in the #3 groove, not the #2 groove as per Rotax recommendations. The clip and
o-ring were below the white cup as it should be. If everything else in the carb
is correct, then in #3 position, it should be running a bit on the rich side
of optimum. I checked the jet needle number and it was correct. I did not go
deeper into the carb but will on another day to see if the needle jet is the
proper one and all other parts as well. I suspect the needle jet is the wrong
number. I lowered the clip to the #4 groove (lowest/richest) and put all back
together and took it for a spin.
RESULTS:
No appreciable change in EGTs or CHTs during WOT CLIMB... still in normal range.
The EGTs in cruise rpm range were about 100 rpm lower than before moving the
clip down to the last groove. Still higher than normal range but less than the
MAX allowable temp. The CHTs did not change noticeably. The engine felt like
it had more power and this was confirmed when I went to WOT in level flight.
The max rpm is now 6,600 rpm where before it was 6,500 rpm. This confirms that
the engine was running lean of peak power, at least at WOT.
Next Steps:
a. Increase pitch in prop to get 6,500 rpm at WOT level flight.
b. Take carb apart and clean/inspect/check for proper jets etc.
I'll post results of these steps as soon as possible but it will probably be a
week before I get to do it. At least now, I can fly without fear that the EGTs
are running too high in cruise.
--------
Thom in Buffalo
N197BG FS1/447
do not archive
--------------------
"Blind respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
Albert Einstein
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| Subject: | Mushy control stick |
Hey gang,
After Charleys first flight in the Kolbra the only complaint he had was mushy responce
from the stick. Well we figured alot of this is his lack of time in a
Kolb type aircraft and his comparing it to the RV8 or even the jets he flys on
a regular basis. After John H stopped by and it was discussed we or John rather
found some movement in the control tube that sticks out the back and connects
to the aileron push pull tubes. Right away we all agreed "There is your mush".
Then it was suguested that more support be added back there. I started thinking
of a way to fix this. To back up a bit remember than we changed the configuration
of this area by running the control rod through a nylon bearing and
making it fixed at the aft point. This leaves about 8" of the 4130 tube un-supported.
However I got to really thinking about the steel tube and thought hmmm
man there is no way that the 4130 steel tube is "flexing" that much.
Now here is my thinking.. I am thinking that because the control tube is supported
by a ridgid mount aft vs the slider for the flaperons, the flex or mush is
coming from the lack of support at the other end of the control tube up near
the rubber U-Joint. This makes perfect sence to me now that I think about it.
The rubber U-joint is supported less than 3" in front but nothing of support to
maybe 4' aft. This would make alot of stress on the U-joint and explain the
flexing.
Any of you guys think Im on the right track here?
As soon as I can get back to the airplane and have some help I will confirm this
therory and report back.
The only reason for this post about this issue is this....
Other Kolbs with flapperons when the flapperons are extended may encounter the
same mushy feel. might want to get a buddy to hold the aileron and another to
move the stick side to side and watch the movenent at the U-Joint to see if the
tube is trying to warp up/down or sideways.
If my theroy is confirmed I will make a nylon bearing and mount it to the tail
boom up close to the U-Joint to prevent this flexing.
--------
Paul Petty
Kolbra #12
Ms Dixie
912 UL 70" warp
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| Subject: | Re: Mushy control stick |
PS....
This may be Kolbra only related and maybe only to Ms. Dixie due to mods so dont
freak out!
do not archive
--------
Paul Petty
Kolbra #12
Ms Dixie
912 UL 70" warp
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb Mark III fuel tanks |
This looks like a nice 10 gallon tank for replacement of the Kolb Fuel tanks.
http://www.air-techinc.com/prod_cat_item.asp?categoryID=fueltanks&typ=exclusives&ID=1080
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
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| Subject: | Re: FS 1 First Flight questions |
Hey John,
I believe your $.02 on the subject will probably buy as much as
mine, :-) except perhaps at higher power settings.
The enricher becomes decreasingly effective as the throttle is opened.
In fact one reason some people have difficulty starting a cold engine
using the enricher is because they open the throttle too far for the
enricher to be effective. The enricher works different than a choke.
I know I'm preaching to the choir with you.
Gene,
On Jul 17, 2007, at 2:36 PM, John Hauck wrote:
>
>
> | If you do not have a primer, sell your EGT gauge and get one.
> Just
>
> Gene:
>
> You can get the same results, in flight, with the enricher. Not only
> on the two strokes, but it also works on the 912 series engines.
>
> Old fashioned, using the enricher on all my engines.
>
> john h
> mkIII
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: FS 1 First Flight questions |
| mine, :-) except perhaps at higher power settings.
| The enricher becomes decreasingly effective as the throttle is
opened.
|
| In fact one reason some people have difficulty starting a cold
engine
| using the enricher is because they open the throttle too far for the
| enricher to be effective. The enricher works different than a
choke.
| I know I'm preaching to the choir with you.
|
| Gene,
Gene:
Reason I shared my little bit of info is because it worked with me and
the 912UL.
Did not feel like it was running as crisp as it should at 5,000 rpm
cruise. Had had a problem with this same engine on my flight to
Deadhorse, AK, in 1994. Was still working on the problem with less
than ideal performance at cruise in colder climates. After I got back
home, I experimented a lot trying to come up with a fix. While on a
cross country flight to Mobile, AL, I got the idea to pull on the
enricher. When I did, cruise speed increased 200 rpm. When I got
back home, I pulled the carb piston, raised the needles a knotch, and
my cold weather and warm weather midrange problem was solved. Wish I
could have figured that out in Alaska. I would have made Point Barrow
in 1994 instead of 2001.
BTW: After I raised the needles in the 912, I checked the enricher at
cruise rpm and the engine lost 200 rpm, indicating the enricher was
making it go over rich. I might add, the 912 is tuned very close to
max lean in midrange. Does not take much more leaning to piss off the
912 and make it act up. Definitely gets the pilots attention.
I realize the enricher is not a choke. That is why I never had a need
for primers. Never had a problem starting pull start, electric
starter two strokes, and four strokes, using the correct procedure for
starting. Do it right by the book and it works for me.
john h
mkIII
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| Subject: | Re: Mushy control stick |
When I first started flying my FS II, I noticed the stick was rather "springy"
in the aileron direction. It isn't what I'd call mushy, but definitely springy...
Once I started relaxing and looking around a bit, I took it up and did some full-deflection
wing rocking to get an idea of the aileron response. I noticed the
ailerons hardly defected at cruise even with the stick against the stop to either
side.
I think some of the spring is twisting of the torque rod between the stick and
the bellcrank in the back that attaches to the pushrods. Probably the rest is
absorbed elsewhere, just in the general play in the aileron linkage.
I don't think there are long portions of unsupported rod, but there might be towards
the back....
So some of the flexing you're having could just be the tube itself?
That's my only quarrel with the plane at all, and even so with gap seals on the
ailerons there's still a good bit of aileron control.
Otherwise, I love the design of the ailerons. Very simple and virtually no maintenance.
No linkages, pullies or pushrods in the wing anywhere, it's all outside
the plane for easy inspection and lubrication, etc.
LS
--------
LS
FS II
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