Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 09:13 AM - Re: Suzuki 1.3 DOC 16V (Ron)
2. 09:19 AM - Gonna be flyier (James Fitzsimmons)
3. 09:23 AM - Re: Suzuki 1.3 DOC 16V (Ron)
4. 09:31 AM - Re: Gonna be flyier (Ron)
5. 09:58 AM - Re: Suzuki 1.3 DOC 16V (Dana Hague)
6. 10:04 AM - Re: Gonna be flyier (James Fitzsimmons)
7. 10:08 AM - Re: Gonna be flyier (Dana Hague)
8. 10:08 AM - Re: Gonna be flyier (Dana Hague)
9. 10:34 AM - Re: Gonna be flyier (Richard Girard)
10. 10:51 AM - Re: Gonna be flyier (Mike Welch)
11. 11:21 AM - Re: Gonna be flyier (Arksey@aol.com)
12. 11:28 AM - Re: Suzuki 1.3 DOC 16V (Mike Welch)
13. 11:50 AM - Re: Gonna be flyier (beauford T)
14. 12:14 PM - Re: Suzuki 1.3 DOC 16V (Ron)
15. 12:22 PM - Re: Suzuki 1.3 DOC 16V (Ron)
16. 12:25 PM - Re: Gonna be flyier (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
17. 12:30 PM - Re: Gonna be flyier (Ron)
18. 12:41 PM - grade 8 bolts (Ron)
19. 12:58 PM - Re: Gonna be flyier (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
20. 01:30 PM - Re: Gonna be flyier (flymichigan@comcast.net)
21. 01:38 PM - Gonna be (James Fitzsimmons)
22. 02:26 PM - Re: Gonna be (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
23. 03:31 PM - Re: Gonna be (Jim Kmet)
24. 03:59 PM - Re: Gonna be (Bob Noyer)
25. 04:23 PM - Re: Gonna be (James Fitzsimmons)
26. 04:50 PM - Re: Gonna be DEAD (Mike Welch)
27. 05:24 PM - Re: Gonna be (DANIEL WALTER)
28. 05:53 PM - Re: Gonna be flyier (ElleryWeld@aol.com)
29. 05:58 PM - Re: Gonna be (Thom Riddle)
30. 07:01 PM - Re: Re: Gonna be (Richard Girard)
31. 08:12 PM - Re: Gonna be (Richard Pike)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Suzuki 1.3 DOC 16V |
Need some help in trying to make up my mind for shock mounts. I am thinking, or
have been thinking of laying one or two strips of tire rubber along the length
of the rail bed mount. I am thinking that it will give better weight distribution
on the rails and it will make for a trimmer installation. I don't know
if anyone already tried that. I am also thinking that buying the regular circular
shock mounts is what "everybody is doing" and thus just as good or a better
solution. In both cases I am going to have to weld some tabs through which to
fasten the motor to the frame.
Any thoughts?
Message 2
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Gettin a Firestar II hopefully on Sunday. Has Cayuna, ULII-02. Seems to
run fine-- been sittin a couple years. Need to find where to buy pins
and keeper clips for wings and struts etc. Also where to find best fuel
lines and clamps. Lines are hard and cracked.
Life long dream- had to wait till mid 50's to start. Wife harpin about
insurance, Will an all that stuff. Jut wantin to jump in it an teach
myself to fly it. Even built a strip, bout 700'. Real bad case of the
itch.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Suzuki 1.3 DOC 16V |
I re weighed the engine and its around the same result, I can subtract 5 pounds
for the plank of wood between the scales to bring the weight to around 168. So
I think around 220 is a good max guess.
I checked the great plains site again and the new water cooled cyl heads with the
RDU would be really good for the M3X. If the Euro exchange rate ever gets back
to parity the Rotax 912S would be a real contender again.
---- Richard & Martha Neilsen <NeilsenRM@comcast.net> wrote:
============
Ron
220 lbs is a bit heavy. My VW is around 170-175 and that is heavy. The empty
weight of my MKIIIC is 598lbs. Add 10 gallons of fuel and my 210 and I have
142lbs for a passenger. I assume the MKIIIX is a bit heaver than a MKIIC and
add 50lbs of engine and you will end up with a 1 to 1 1/2 passenger
airplane.
I see Raven advertises their 1.3 engine at 168lbs and 115HP with turbo. Is
this all advertising? There is a current trend for aircraft engine
manufactures exaggerate. You really need to put that engine on a diet. What
is the power rating on that engine. Someone at Oshkosh last week was telling
me his 1.3 engine with the same redrive you have weighed 220lbs. and
produced 70HP. Lets assume you will be happy with that engine weight what
about power? You really don't want want a under powered and over weight
airplane.
Also I hear people talking about turbo charging their engines to get more
power. Is that a good idea? Aircraft engines are turbo charged only to
maintain power at higher altitudes not to increase rated power. In a
automobile a engine is designed to run at close to 30% rated power with only
short bursts of 100% power. In a airplane you run at 60-70% power all the
time. Assuming you have a engine designed to be turbo charged is it designed
to run at 60% power?
For my own peace of mind I built my VW using parts that are designed to run
in a dune buggy in the 150+ range at 6,000-7,000 RPM. I fly it at cruise
3200RPM and calculate it is producing 50HP. When taking off I turn 3600RPM
and around 80HP. This engine has a history of running reliably at these
power levels in airplanes. We know the 912 series Rotax engines are reliable
at their rated power and their 2 strokes some what less.
Food for thought.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron" <captainron1@cox.net>
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 11:23 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Suzuki 1.3 DOC 16V
>
> Today I weighed the Suzuki motor with the SPG-2 reduction drive. The motor
> net weight without intake ECM muffler and radiator tipped the scale at 172
> pounds. I am fairly certain that up and running with all the peripherals
> ready to fly it should be around 220 pounds total. With some real trimming
> I guess I could knock off around 20 pounds.
> I also weighed the Kolb frame today it came in at 312 lb no fabric or
> lexan or instruments.
> can I get some ideas of M3X's empty weight so I can compare.
> I am guessing that my M3X ready to fly will weigh around 580 lbs.
> Your guess is as good as mind at this stage.
> Thanks
> Ron
>
>
>
--
kugelair.com
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Gonna be flyier |
Good for you :-)
most here are of the older generation.
just make sure you get good 2 cycle oil, and be rather richer with the ratio than
poorer with the ratio, a bit more oil is better than a bit less oil in the
mix. Ace hardware has pins, or if you want aircraft quality go to aircraftspruce.com.
do not archive
======================
---- James Fitzsimmons <jfitzsy@stny.rr.com> wrote:
============
Gettin a Firestar II hopefully on Sunday. Has Cayuna, ULII-02. Seems to run fine--
been sittin a couple years. Need to find where to buy pins and keeper clips
for wings and struts etc. Also where to find best fuel lines and clamps. Lines
are hard and cracked.
Life long dream- had to wait till mid 50's to start. Wife harpin about insurance,
Will an all that stuff. Jut wantin to jump in it an teach myself to fly it.
Even built a strip, bout 700'. Real bad case of the itch.
--
kugelair.com
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Suzuki 1.3 DOC 16V |
At 12:13 PM 8/8/2007, Ron wrote:
>
>Need some help in trying to make up my mind for shock mounts. I am
>thinking, or have been thinking of laying one or two strips of tire
>rubber along the length of the rail bed mount. I am thinking that it will
>give better weight distribution on the rails and it will make for a
>trimmer installation. I don't know if anyone already tried that. I am also
>thinking that buying the regular circular shock mounts is what "everybody
>is doing" and thus just as good or a better solution. In both cases I am
>going to have to weld some tabs through which to fasten the motor to the frame.
>Any thoughts?
Designing vibration mounts is not as simple as it looks. You have to take
into account the mass of the engine, the vibration frequency (engine and
prop rpm), resonant frequency of the system, etc. Improperly sized mounts
can actually make things worse by amplifying the vibration. A simple strip
of rubber won't do it if the bolts go through it and make metal to metal
contact.
The vibration mount manufacturers ( http://www.lord.com/ and others) have
lots of information in their catalogs and/or websites on selecting the
appropriate mounts.
-Dana
--
--
"The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public
debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom tempered and
controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest
Rome become bankrupt" -Cicero, 68 B.C.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Gonna be flyier |
We have an Ace hardware here, an since you mentioned them 1st maybe dont
need ones with the A on end. 1/4" pins any way. Dont know the mix ratio (no
book) an no response from Kolb Co. Hey what about the keeper clips. Thanks
fer response. New to list.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron" <captainron1@cox.net>
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 12:30 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Gonna be flyier
>
> Good for you :-)
> most here are of the older generation.
> just make sure you get good 2 cycle oil, and be rather richer with the
> ratio than poorer with the ratio, a bit more oil is better than a bit less
> oil in the mix. Ace hardware has pins, or if you want aircraft quality go
> to aircraftspruce.com.
>
> do not archive
>
> ======================
> ---- James Fitzsimmons <jfitzsy@stny.rr.com> wrote:
>
> ============
> Gettin a Firestar II hopefully on Sunday. Has Cayuna, ULII-02. Seems to
> run fine-- been sittin a couple years. Need to find where to buy pins and
> keeper clips for wings and struts etc. Also where to find best fuel lines
> and clamps. Lines are hard and cracked.
> Life long dream- had to wait till mid 50's to start. Wife harpin about
> insurance, Will an all that stuff. Jut wantin to jump in it an teach
> myself to fly it. Even built a strip, bout 700'. Real bad case of the
> itch.
> --
> kugelair.com
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Gonna be flyier |
At 12:18 PM 8/8/2007, James Fitzsimmons wrote:
>Gettin a Firestar II hopefully on Sunday. Has Cayuna, ULII-02. Seems to
>run fine-- been sittin a couple years. Need to find where to buy pins and
>keeper clips for wings and struts etc. Also where to find best fuel lines
>and clamps. Lines are hard and cracked.
A Firestar with a Cuyuna??? Doesn't sound right.
Aircraft Spruce for hardware. There are less expensive places but AS is
super easy to deal with.
>Life long dream- had to wait till mid 50's to start. Wife harpin about
>insurance, Will an all that stuff. Jut wantin to jump in it an teach
>myself to fly it. Even built a strip, bout 700'. Real bad case of the itch.
If you're talking about life insurance, get it BEFORE you fly at all, then
the rate's locked in. Try getting it after you're flying, the rates will
double.
-Dana
do not archive
--
--
"The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public
debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom tempered and
controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest
Rome become bankrupt" -Cicero, 68 B.C.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Gonna be flyier |
At 12:30 PM 8/8/2007, Ron wrote:
>...Ace hardware has pins, or if you want aircraft quality go to
>aircraftspruce.com.
Yikes! You DON'T want to buy wing attach pins from a hardware store!
do not archive
-Dana
--
--
"The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public
debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom tempered and
controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest
Rome become bankrupt" -Cicero, 68 B.C.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Gonna be flyier |
You can get circular safety clips from McMaster.com.
Rick
On 8/8/07, Dana Hague <d-m-hague@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> At 12:18 PM 8/8/2007, James Fitzsimmons wrote:
>
> Gettin a Firestar II hopefully on Sunday. Has Cayuna, ULII-02. Seems to
> run fine-- been sittin a couple years. Need to find where to buy pins and
> keeper clips for wings and struts etc. Also where to find best fuel lines
> and clamps. Lines are hard and cracked.
>
>
> A Firestar with a Cuyuna??? Doesn't sound right.
>
> Aircraft Spruce for hardware. There are less expensive places but AS is
> super easy to deal with.
>
> Life long dream- had to wait till mid 50's to start. Wife harpin about
> insurance, Will an all that stuff. Jut wantin to jump in it an teach myself
> to fly it. Even built a strip, bout 700'. Real bad case of the itch.
>
>
> If you're talking about life insurance, get it BEFORE you fly at all, then
> the rate's locked in. Try getting it after you're flying, the rates will
> double.
>
> -Dana
> do not archive
>
> --
> --
> "The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public
> debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom tempered and
> controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest
> Rome become bankrupt" -Cicero, 68 B.C.
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Girard
"Ya'll drop on in"
takes on a whole new meaning
when you live at the airport.
Message 10
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If you don't go out and get EXPERT ultralight training, BEFORE you try to
fly your own, you will most likely end up as a statistic. Simply put: You
could die, or be severely injured, without proper training.
Use ONLY aircraft hardware in an aircraft. No matter how flimsy,
light-weight, or basic an "Ultralight" is, it is STILL an aircraft! When a
bolt or pins gives out, the end result will NOT be good! The testing and
manufacturing processes for "AN" and "MIL" spec hardware are far superior to
anything you can buy at a hardware store.
Time, and time again, guys go out and get "Ultralights (and hang gliders,
too)" and since there is no "license" required, they interpret that to mean
"NO (formal)TRAINING REQUIRED." They strap themselves in, and go blasting
off into the wild blue yonder, and in many cases...CRASH HARD!!!
And then the News comes along, and says "Damn, those Ultralights (hang
gliders) sure are UNSAFE!!"
Please do yourself, and all of us a big favor. Get proper training, and
use only quality aircraft parts to build your airplane. Fly solo if, and
when, your Instructor says you're ready. And, then go have fun!
Mike in SW Utah
PS. One of my favorite saying goes something like this; "Flying is NO
more unsafe than many other activities, however, it is incredibly
UNFORGIVING of mistakes."
>From: "James Fitzsimmons" <jfitzsy@stny.rr.com>
>To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Kolb-List: Gonna be flyier
>Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 12:18:50 -0400
>
>Gettin a Firestar II hopefully on Sunday. Has Cayuna, ULII-02. Seems to run
>fine-- been sittin a couple years. Need to find where to buy pins and
>keeper clips for wings and struts etc. Also where to find best fuel lines
>and clamps. Lines are hard and cracked.
>Life long dream- had to wait till mid 50's to start. Wife harpin about
>insurance, Will an all that stuff. Jut wantin to jump in it an teach myself
>to fly it. Even built a strip, bout 700'. Real bad case of the itch.
_________________________________________________________________
Now you can see troublebefore he arrives
http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_protection_0507
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Gonna be flyier |
I second what mike told you....also call the Kolb factory you can get a lot
of the stuff you would need from them. There Ph is 606-862-9692.
jim swan firestar ll 503 N663S Michigan
do not archive
Kolb-List message posted by: "Mike Welch" <mdnanwelch7@hotmail.com>
If you don't go out and get EXPERT ultralight training, BEFORE you try to
fly your own, you will most likely end up as a statistic. Simply put: You
could die, or be severely injured, without proper training.
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Suzuki 1.3 DOC 16V |
Hey Ron,
Why not duplicate the mounting system like Jeron uses? I could take some
photos if you want. Let me know. Mike Welch
Do not archive.
>From: Ron <captainron1@cox.net>
>To: kolb-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Suzuki 1.3 DOC 16V
>Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 9:13:05 -0700
>
>
>Need some help in trying to make up my mind for shock mounts. I am
>thinking, or have been thinking of laying one or two strips of tire rubber
>along the length of the rail bed mount. I am thinking that it will give
>better weight distribution on the rails and it will make for a trimmer
>installation. I don't know if anyone already tried that. I am also thinking
>that buying the regular circular shock mounts is what "everybody is doing"
>and thus just as good or a better solution. In both cases I am going to
>have to weld some tabs through which to fasten the motor to the frame.
>Any thoughts?
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
See what youre getting intobefore you go there
http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_preview_0507
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Gonna be flyier |
James...
Congratulations on your Firestar...
Some free advice: Listen to what the experienced guys on this list are
telling you.
-- Get yourself training... That thing is an airplane, not a bicycle.
It can easily kill you or maim you, and if
you try to "teach yourself" there is roughly a 50-50 chance it will.
-- No hardware store junk...(see paragraph above). Fasten your aircraft
together with aircraft parts.
Welcome to aviation.
Worth what ye paid fer it...
Beauford
Firefly 076 - N173BW
Brandon, FL
DO NOT ARCHIVE
----- Original Message -----
From: James Fitzsimmons
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 12:18 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Gonna be flyier
Gettin a Firestar II hopefully on Sunday. Has Cayuna, ULII-02. Seems
to run fine-- been sittin a couple years. Need to find where to buy pins
and keeper clips for wings and struts etc. Also where to find best fuel
lines and clamps. Lines are hard and cracked.
Life long dream- had to wait till mid 50's to start. Wife harpin about
insurance, Will an all that stuff. Jut wantin to jump in it an teach
myself to fly it. Even built a strip, bout 700'. Real bad case of the
itch.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Suzuki 1.3 DOC 16V |
Yes that would be great help Mike
Thanks
Ron
====================================
---- Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7@hotmail.com> wrote:
============
Hey Ron,
Why not duplicate the mounting system like Jeron uses? I could take some
photos if you want. Let me know. Mike Welch
Do not archive.
>From: Ron <captainron1@cox.net>
>To: kolb-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Suzuki 1.3 DOC 16V
>Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 9:13:05 -0700
>
>
>Need some help in trying to make up my mind for shock mounts. I am
>thinking, or have been thinking of laying one or two strips of tire rubber
>along the length of the rail bed mount. I am thinking that it will give
>better weight distribution on the rails and it will make for a trimmer
>installation. I don't know if anyone already tried that. I am also thinking
>that buying the regular circular shock mounts is what "everybody is doing"
>and thus just as good or a better solution. In both cases I am going to
>have to weld some tabs through which to fasten the motor to the frame.
>Any thoughts?
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
See what youre getting intobefore you go there
http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_preview_0507
--
kugelair.com
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Suzuki 1.3 DOC 16V |
You are correct, that its possible to make it much worse, in any case I was envisioning
a sandwich type one strip on top and one on bottom of the rail. I am
guessing tire rubber is pretty hard so as not to increase resonant oscillations,
but other than that I don't know.
Do you have the Rotax type rubber shocks PN # and where to buy them? maybe 3 per
side would work with the increased weight.
Ron
=======================
---- Dana Hague <d-m-hague@comcast.net> wrote:
============
At 12:13 PM 8/8/2007, Ron wrote:
>
>Need some help in trying to make up my mind for shock mounts. I am
>thinking, or have been thinking of laying one or two strips of tire
>rubber along the length of the rail bed mount. I am thinking that it will
>give better weight distribution on the rails and it will make for a
>trimmer installation. I don't know if anyone already tried that. I am also
>thinking that buying the regular circular shock mounts is what "everybody
>is doing" and thus just as good or a better solution. In both cases I am
>going to have to weld some tabs through which to fasten the motor to the frame.
>Any thoughts?
Designing vibration mounts is not as simple as it looks. You have to take
into account the mass of the engine, the vibration frequency (engine and
prop rpm), resonant frequency of the system, etc. Improperly sized mounts
can actually make things worse by amplifying the vibration. A simple strip
of rubber won't do it if the bolts go through it and make metal to metal
contact.
The vibration mount manufacturers ( http://www.lord.com/ and others) have
lots of information in their catalogs and/or websites on selecting the
appropriate mounts.
-Dana
--
--
"The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public
debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom tempered and
controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest
Rome become bankrupt" -Cicero, 68 B.C.
--
kugelair.com
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Gonna be flyier |
James
I would like to third what Mike said. Also that isn't a ultralight! it
is a real airplane and as such needs to flown by a licensed pilot or
signed off student. Also you will want to get the airplane registered.
If you want to register it as a light sport time is running out so you
may want to spend your time getting that done. After 12/31/07 you will
not be able to get it registered and you will be flying a illegal
airplane.
As for your wife's concern the airframe if built properly and
maintained properly is not going to let you down if YOU are up to the
task and you will be with training. The engine is a bit of a concern
because it has a bad history. If you fly it always were you have a safe
landing area with in gliding range it can be fairly safe and fun but you
will want to be looking in to a better engine at some point. Also for
learning purposes that 700 ft strip is a bit short.
My $.02 worth
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
----- Original Message -----
From: Arksey@aol.com
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 2:20 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Gonna be flyier
I second what mike told you....also call the Kolb factory you can get
a lot of the stuff you would need from them. There Ph is 606-862-9692.
jim swan firestar ll 503 N663S Michigan
do not archive
Kolb-List message posted by: "Mike Welch" <mdnanwelch7@hotmail.com>
If you don't go out and get EXPERT ultralight training, BEFORE you
try to
fly your own, you will most likely end up as a statistic. Simply
put: You
could die, or be severely injured, without proper training.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Gonna be flyier |
I would feel pretty good with the grade 8 hardware, they should have everything
you need.
But before you do that go check out Aircraft Spruce for the AN type stuff, they
have a nice online catalog and it ain't that expensive.
I use Ace hardware grade 8 or SS type fasteners. Make sure its grade 8 nothing
less.
Ron
do not archive
================
---- James Fitzsimmons <jfitzsy@stny.rr.com> wrote:
============
We have an Ace hardware here, an since you mentioned them 1st maybe dont
need ones with the A on end. 1/4" pins any way. Dont know the mix ratio (no
book) an no response from Kolb Co. Hey what about the keeper clips. Thanks
fer response. New to list.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron" <captainron1@cox.net>
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 12:30 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Gonna be flyier
>
> Good for you :-)
> most here are of the older generation.
> just make sure you get good 2 cycle oil, and be rather richer with the
> ratio than poorer with the ratio, a bit more oil is better than a bit less
> oil in the mix. Ace hardware has pins, or if you want aircraft quality go
> to aircraftspruce.com.
>
> do not archive
>
> ======================
> ---- James Fitzsimmons <jfitzsy@stny.rr.com> wrote:
>
> ============
> Gettin a Firestar II hopefully on Sunday. Has Cayuna, ULII-02. Seems to
> run fine-- been sittin a couple years. Need to find where to buy pins and
> keeper clips for wings and struts etc. Also where to find best fuel lines
> and clamps. Lines are hard and cracked.
> Life long dream- had to wait till mid 50's to start. Wife harpin about
> insurance, Will an all that stuff. Jut wantin to jump in it an teach
> myself to fly it. Even built a strip, bout 700'. Real bad case of the
> itch.
> --
> kugelair.com
>
>
>
--
kugelair.com
Message 18
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Here is an interesting discussion about bolt grades
http://www.rockcrawler.com/techreports/fasteners/index.asp
Ron
=====================
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Gonna be flyier |
Ron
Careful out there with that advice. Grade 8 bolts are very strong but are
also kind of brittle. It really depends on where you are using them and what
is called for. Are they Chinese made? Can you be assured they are what they
say they are?
Don't use anything but aircraft grade stuff in a airplane.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron" <captainron1@cox.net>
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 3:29 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Gonna be flyier
>
> I would feel pretty good with the grade 8 hardware, they should have
> everything you need.
> But before you do that go check out Aircraft Spruce for the AN type stuff,
> they have a nice online catalog and it ain't that expensive.
>
> I use Ace hardware grade 8 or SS type fasteners. Make sure its grade 8
> nothing less.
>
> Ron
>
> do not archive
> ================
> ---- James Fitzsimmons <jfitzsy@stny.rr.com> wrote:
>
> ============
>
> We have an Ace hardware here, an since you mentioned them 1st maybe dont
> need ones with the A on end. 1/4" pins any way. Dont know the mix ratio
> (no
> book) an no response from Kolb Co. Hey what about the keeper clips. Thanks
> fer response. New to list.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ron" <captainron1@cox.net>
> To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 12:30 PM
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Gonna be flyier
>
>
>>
>> Good for you :-)
>> most here are of the older generation.
>> just make sure you get good 2 cycle oil, and be rather richer with the
>> ratio than poorer with the ratio, a bit more oil is better than a bit
>> less
>> oil in the mix. Ace hardware has pins, or if you want aircraft quality go
>> to aircraftspruce.com.
>>
>> do not archive
>>
>> ======================
>> ---- James Fitzsimmons <jfitzsy@stny.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>> ============
>> Gettin a Firestar II hopefully on Sunday. Has Cayuna, ULII-02. Seems to
>> run fine-- been sittin a couple years. Need to find where to buy pins and
>> keeper clips for wings and struts etc. Also where to find best fuel lines
>> and clamps. Lines are hard and cracked.
>> Life long dream- had to wait till mid 50's to start. Wife harpin about
>> insurance, Will an all that stuff. Jut wantin to jump in it an teach
>> myself to fly it. Even built a strip, bout 700'. Real bad case of the
>> itch.
>> --
>> kugelair.com
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> kugelair.com
>
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Gonna be flyier |
I apologize in advance for the condescending tone of this email, but why in the
hell would anyone use grade 8 bolts to attach wings to an airplane. AN hardware
is designed to bend if it takes on too much stress. A grade 8 bolt is likely
to brake if subjected to the kinds of loads that turbulence and added g's
that we ask of those connections. Hard=Brittle
Please do not use these on your plane. If you decide to, please don't fly over
my house!!!
Bryan Dever
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Ron <captainron1@cox.net>
>
> I would feel pretty good with the grade 8 hardware, they should have everything
> you need.
> But before you do that go check out Aircraft Spruce for the AN type stuff, they
> have a nice online catalog and it ain't that expensive.
>
> I use Ace hardware grade 8 or SS type fasteners. Make sure its grade 8 nothing
> less.
>
> Ron
>
> do not archive
> ================
> ---- James Fitzsimmons <jfitzsy@stny.rr.com> wrote:
>
> ============
>
> We have an Ace hardware here, an since you mentioned them 1st maybe dont
> need ones with the A on end. 1/4" pins any way. Dont know the mix ratio (no
> book) an no response from Kolb Co. Hey what about the keeper clips. Thanks
> fer response. New to list.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ron" <captainron1@cox.net>
> To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 12:30 PM
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Gonna be flyier
>
>
> >
> > Good for you :-)
> > most here are of the older generation.
> > just make sure you get good 2 cycle oil, and be rather richer with the
> > ratio than poorer with the ratio, a bit more oil is better than a bit less
> > oil in the mix. Ace hardware has pins, or if you want aircraft quality go
> > to aircraftspruce.com.
> >
> > do not archive
> >
> > ======================
> > ---- James Fitzsimmons <jfitzsy@stny.rr.com> wrote:
> >
> > ============
> > Gettin a Firestar II hopefully on Sunday. Has Cayuna, ULII-02. Seems to
> > run fine-- been sittin a couple years. Need to find where to buy pins and
> > keeper clips for wings and struts etc. Also where to find best fuel lines
> > and clamps. Lines are hard and cracked.
> > Life long dream- had to wait till mid 50's to start. Wife harpin about
> > insurance, Will an all that stuff. Jut wantin to jump in it an teach
> > myself to fly it. Even built a strip, bout 700'. Real bad case of the
> > itch.
> > --
> > kugelair.com
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> kugelair.com
>
>
>
>
Message 21
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All pts. well taken, WOW. OK ,I've got a friend who has a Knight -- its
a trainer. Not completely. Some parts missin. He let me run it up an dwn
his strip a few times. He has a friend who is a Pilot and has trainer
cridentials. Who said would help. Agree would not want to be a statistic
or contribute a bad name to the sport. Have been interested in this long
enough to have spent considerable time reading Flyin inst. books. Also
have spent some time talkin with this fellah. I guess you'd call it
ground trainin. So, other than takin flight lessons - which would be
cost prohibitive- I'm doin the best I can. Had a ride in the Knight -
back seat of course. And the other day, had the Kolb runnin and taxied
it up ah dwn a strip there- tryin to get the feel of its controls.
Did'nt know it had heel peddals for braking - rudder worked for turnin
but do'nt slow ya dwn. Figured out the heel peddals after that.
Went to aircraft spruce and found good pins and keeper clips -- thanks
all.
Guess the planes coming with a book and pilots log so info on oil mix
and such are probably there. Still not sure what mix oil to use as you
fellas seem to be at odds on that subject. Thanks fer yer responses and
concerns. Oh and the Iife ins. response --- gotch ya.
Message 22
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James
One more time. I'm trying to help. The FAA has a open window were you
can get your plane registered. It's available till 12/31/07 after that
you don't have a chance to get it registered. There might be something
but it would very difficult. Unregistered it will be illegal and worth
much less not registered your choice. Check the Kolb-list@matronics.com
archives on Light Sort and LSA registration.
What is a Knight? Is it going to fly like a Kolb? We can't force you to
get proper training but nothing less than light sport training as part
of the Light Sport license program will be legal for that airplane. Get
caught and you will be charged flying without a license and flying a
unregistered airplane. Get killed flying illegal and your life insurance
policy may be void. The Light Sport license is fairly easy and
inexpensive to get. It is still allot of work and beyond some people but
one heck of allot easer and less expensive than the private license I
had to get at the time.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIC
----- Original Message -----
From: James Fitzsimmons
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 4:37 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Gonna be
All pts. well taken, WOW. OK ,I've got a friend who has a Knight --
its a trainer. Not completely. Some parts missin. He let me run it up an
dwn his strip a few times. He has a friend who is a Pilot and has
trainer cridentials. Who said would help. Agree would not want to be a
statistic or contribute a bad name to the sport. Have been interested in
this long enough to have spent considerable time reading Flyin inst.
books. Also have spent some time talkin with this fellah. I guess you'd
call it ground trainin. So, other than takin flight lessons - which
would be cost prohibitive- I'm doin the best I can. Had a ride in the
Knight - back seat of course. And the other day, had the Kolb runnin and
taxied it up ah dwn a strip there- tryin to get the feel of its
controls. Did'nt know it had heel peddals for braking - rudder worked
for turnin but do'nt slow ya dwn. Figured out the heel peddals after
that.
Went to aircraft spruce and found good pins and keeper clips --
thanks all.
Guess the planes coming with a book and pilots log so info on oil mix
and such are probably there. Still not sure what mix oil to use as you
fellas seem to be at odds on that subject. Thanks fer yer responses and
concerns. Oh and the Iife ins. response --- gotch ya.
Message 23
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If taking Flying lessons is cost prohibitive, sell the plane. Coming
from a CFII, there is too much to learn about safely flying a Kolb, or
any other airplane, in the time you have left after you go to full
throttle the 1st time, despite everything you have read about flying.
We don`t even know you & we are trying to help you> : ) Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard & Martha Neilsen
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 4:25 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Gonna be
James
One more time. I'm trying to help. The FAA has a open window were you
can get your plane registered. It's available till 12/31/07 after that
you don't have a chance to get it registered. There might be something
but it would very difficult. Unregistered it will be illegal and worth
much less not registered your choice. Check the Kolb-list@matronics.com
archives on Light Sort and LSA registration.
What is a Knight? Is it going to fly like a Kolb? We can't force you
to get proper training but nothing less than light sport training as
part of the Light Sport license program will be legal for that airplane.
Get caught and you will be charged flying without a license and flying a
unregistered airplane. Get killed flying illegal and your life insurance
policy may be void. The Light Sport license is fairly easy and
inexpensive to get. It is still allot of work and beyond some people but
one heck of allot easer and less expensive than the private license I
had to get at the time.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIC
----- Original Message -----
From: James Fitzsimmons
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 4:37 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Gonna be
All pts. well taken, WOW. OK ,I've got a friend who has a Knight --
its a trainer. Not completely. Some parts missin. He let me run it up an
dwn his strip a few times. He has a friend who is a Pilot and has
trainer cridentials. Who said would help. Agree would not want to be a
statistic or contribute a bad name to the sport. Have been interested in
this long enough to have spent considerable time reading Flyin inst.
books. Also have spent some time talkin with this fellah. I guess you'd
call it ground trainin. So, other than takin flight lessons - which
would be cost prohibitive- I'm doin the best I can. Had a ride in the
Knight - back seat of course. And the other day, had the Kolb runnin and
taxied it up ah dwn a strip there- tryin to get the feel of its
controls. Did'nt know it had heel peddals for braking - rudder worked
for turnin but do'nt slow ya dwn. Figured out the heel peddals after
that.
Went to aircraft spruce and found good pins and keeper clips --
thanks all.
Guess the planes coming with a book and pilots log so info on oil
mix and such are probably there. Still not sure what mix oil to use as
you fellas seem to be at odds on that subject. Thanks fer yer responses
and concerns. Oh and the Iife ins. response --- gotch ya.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 24
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In the hope that by just mentioning this, it wont be tried. I'm not
in favor of the old self-teaching method of "crow-hopping." I say
this because it frequently comes up. The sometimes fatal outcome of
crow-hopping comes when the learner, doing a little fast taxiing,
gets light on the tires, then a foot up, and a sudden gust or
movement of the stick, and wheeee, yer up 50 ft and don't really know
how to get down. Panic closes the throttle, pulls the nose up, and
it's Lawn Dart City. And, No, I haven't done it!
regards,
Bob N. FireFly 070 Old Kolb
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/ronoy/
do not archive
Message 25
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OK Rick, Got my attn. LSA reg's must be posted at their web site. The
Knight is also an UL some diffs. Are you sayin to find specific Kolb
trainin. And if so how would I go about findin that.
Hav'nt seen any new regs at their site. ?Thought I read everythin
there???????/
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard & Martha Neilsen
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 5:25 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Gonna be
James
One more time. I'm trying to help. The FAA has a open window were you
can get your plane registered. It's available till 12/31/07 after that
you don't have a chance to get it registered. There might be something
but it would very difficult. Unregistered it will be illegal and worth
much less not registered your choice. Check the Kolb-list@matronics.com
archives on Light Sort and LSA registration.
What is a Knight? Is it going to fly like a Kolb? We can't force you
to get proper training but nothing less than light sport training as
part of the Light Sport license program will be legal for that airplane.
Get caught and you will be charged flying without a license and flying a
unregistered airplane. Get killed flying illegal and your life insurance
policy may be void. The Light Sport license is fairly easy and
inexpensive to get. It is still allot of work and beyond some people but
one heck of allot easer and less expensive than the private license I
had to get at the time.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIC
----- Original Message -----
From: James Fitzsimmons
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 4:37 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Gonna be
All pts. well taken, WOW. OK ,I've got a friend who has a Knight --
its a trainer. Not completely. Some parts missin. He let me run it up an
dwn his strip a few times. He has a friend who is a Pilot and has
trainer cridentials. Who said would help. Agree would not want to be a
statistic or contribute a bad name to the sport. Have been interested in
this long enough to have spent considerable time reading Flyin inst.
books. Also have spent some time talkin with this fellah. I guess you'd
call it ground trainin. So, other than takin flight lessons - which
would be cost prohibitive- I'm doin the best I can. Had a ride in the
Knight - back seat of course. And the other day, had the Kolb runnin and
taxied it up ah dwn a strip there- tryin to get the feel of its
controls. Did'nt know it had heel peddals for braking - rudder worked
for turnin but do'nt slow ya dwn. Figured out the heel peddals after
that.
Went to aircraft spruce and found good pins and keeper clips --
thanks all.
Guess the planes coming with a book and pilots log so info on oil
mix and such are probably there. Still not sure what mix oil to use as
you fellas seem to be at odds on that subject. Thanks fer yer responses
and concerns. Oh and the Iife ins. response --- gotch ya.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Gonna be DEAD |
Bob, Richard, Beaufort, Jim and the rest,
Please be kind with your advice to James. He won't be around long. He
doesn't get the message very easily. He seems to think, and I quote "
Also have spent some time talkin with this fellah. I guess you'd call it
ground trainin." passes for ground school. It is clear, unless he changes
his present approach to flying, HE WILL DIE.
Taking flying lessons is cost prohibitive, he says. I mean, after all,
crow hopping is EXACXTLY the same as flying at 1000' agl, isn't it? I'm
sure he has read a book that told him what to do, so there just isn't ANY
justification for spending "too much money" on proper flight training.
Right??!
The reason I even commented to you, James, was I DID what you suggested
(crow hopping to teach myself to fly). I figured 35 hours of formal flight
training in a Cessna, a few years earlier SHOULD be good enough. Shouldn't
it!!?? NO!!!! I damned near died when I stalled it and nosed in the dirt.
That hurt like a son of a bitch!!! I took out a reinforced downtube
with my NECK!!
Gentle persuation didn't get through to you, James, so please allow me to
say this: Get proper training or you WILL kill yourself. I'm damn
lucky MY STUPIDITY allowed me a second chance. I learned my lesson. I do
not take flying (or my life) so lightly anymore. Now, I take lessons BEFORE
I actually do something. When I finish building my Kolb MkIII you can
guarantee I'll search out someone to give me lessons, prior to me "lifting
off."
Mike in SW Utah
PS Life Insurance does NOT cover death due a private aircraft accident.
(Only Commercial Airlines).
Special "riders" have to be purchased to get that coverage, and they won't
do it for cheap!!!
DO NOT ARCHIVE
>From: Bob Noyer <a58r@verizon.net>
>To: kolb-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Gonna be
>Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 18:59:13 -0400
>
>In the hope that by just mentioning this, it wont be tried. I'm not in
>favor of the old self-teaching method of "crow-hopping." I say this
>because it frequently comes up. The sometimes fatal outcome of
>crow-hopping comes when the learner, doing a little fast taxiing, gets
>light on the tires, then a foot up, and a sudden gust or movement of the
>stick, and wheeee, yer up 50 ft and don't really know how to get down.
>Panic closes the throttle, pulls the nose up, and it's Lawn Dart City.
>And, No, I haven't done it!
>
>regards,
>Bob N. FireFly 070 Old Kolb
>http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/ronoy/
>do not archive
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Puzzles, trivia teasers, word scrambles and more. Play for your chance to
win! http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=CLUB_hotmailtextlink
Message 27
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Welcome to the list. Where are you located? There may be someone on the
list close to you who would be willing to help. The Cayuna uses a 50 to
1 mix.
We also have a feature on the list that keeps the archives from becoming
too cluttered to search, so if you feel that a post does not need to be
kept for ever you just type in (do not archive).
Dan Walter
Ultrastar, UL202
Palmyra, PA.
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: James Fitzsimmons
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 4:37 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Gonna be
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Gonna be flyier |
Welcome to the Kolb list and Good luck with your new toy You cant buy a
better little airplane anywhere but Personally I would get aircraft pins from
Aircraft Spruce or Wicks Aircraft especially if there holding your wings in
place wouldnt want you to get hurt using inferior hardware
its only worth what you paid for it its your call
Ellery in Maine
do not archive
**************************************
all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
Message 29
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James,
As you should be able to tell from the responses you are getting, we Kolbers care
about each other and you. TELL US WHERE YOU ARE LOCATED, so perhaps we can
get you in touch with a Kolber near you to help you through this process.
Registering you airplane must be started very soon to meet the deadline because
there are several steps including getting the registration number and getting
it inspected for airworthiness. One way to do this is to order from EAA their
E-LSA registration information kit which outlines all the steps required to make
your Kolb legal.
Do NOT try to fly your Kolb without proper instruction.
Do NOT try to fly your Kolb without proper instruction.
Do NOT try to fly your Kolb without proper instruction.
I've been flying for over 40 years since I got my private certificate. I've flown
dozens of different airplanes and NONE of them fly like any other. In fact
I'm now on my second early model Kolb Firestar and its flight characteristics
are markedly different from the first one I had. I built neither of these. These
are EXPERIMENTAL AIRCRAFT built by individuals in their garages. Every builder
does something different from the plans which are sometimes sketchy leaving
a lot to the imagination of the builder. Some builders have some pretty wild
imaginations and make modifications that are really dangerous.
Since you are not an experienced pilot, and I assume not an aircraft mechanic,
how in the world do you know if it is a safe flying machine? If you've seen it
fly, great, but that does not mean it is safe to fly. Do you know how to do
a proper weight and balance calculation and why your life could depend upon it?
Do you know if the wire ropes in the Kolb have properly swaged fittings? Do
you know what to do if you get carburetor ice? Do you know what carburetor ice
is and how to detect it? Do you know what a stall is? Do you know what causes
a spin? Do you know to recover from a spin? Do you know what aileron flutter
is? Do you know what adverse yaw is and how to correct for it?
I'm not asking these questions to make you feel stupid. But you are ignorant. We
all began totally ignorant of the things we MUST know to fly safely. Not a single
pilot was born with this knowledge. We all learned it over time. And it
does take time but not as long as you might think to get to the point that you
can fly in relative safety.
Please take the time required to learn to fly safely. If you do, you will have
embarked upon an avocation that will reward you in ways that you cannot even begin
to imagine. If you try to take shortcuts there is a good chance you will
be dead before year end.
On average one pilot in the USA dies every day in their airplanes. Most of these
are in Certificated Standard Category Aircraft built buy factories approved
by the FAA, flown by very experienced pilots and the airplanes are maintained
by FAA approved Airframe and Powerplant Mechanics. Approximately 80% of these
are caused by some form of pilot error or poor judgment.
The ultimate in poor judgment is the decision to teach yourself to fly. Don't do
it.
--------
Thom in Buffalo
N197BG FS1/447
--------------------
"Blind respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
Albert Einstein
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=128192#128192
Message 30
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James, There is an old adage you might wish to contemplate. Gallows humor,
but true nonetheless.
"Aviation is like a self cleaning oven."
Rick
On 8/8/07, Thom Riddle <riddletr@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> James,
>
> As you should be able to tell from the responses you are getting, we
> Kolbers care about each other and you. TELL US WHERE YOU ARE LOCATED, so
> perhaps we can get you in touch with a Kolber near you to help you through
> this process.
>
> Registering you airplane must be started very soon to meet the deadline
> because there are several steps including getting the registration number
> and getting it inspected for airworthiness. One way to do this is to order
> from EAA their E-LSA registration information kit which outlines all the
> steps required to make your Kolb legal.
>
> Do NOT try to fly your Kolb without proper instruction.
> Do NOT try to fly your Kolb without proper instruction.
> Do NOT try to fly your Kolb without proper instruction.
>
> I've been flying for over 40 years since I got my private certificate.
> I've flown dozens of different airplanes and NONE of them fly like any
> other. In fact I'm now on my second early model Kolb Firestar and its flight
> characteristics are markedly different from the first one I had. I built
> neither of these. These are EXPERIMENTAL AIRCRAFT built by individuals in
> their garages. Every builder does something different from the plans which
> are sometimes sketchy leaving a lot to the imagination of the builder. Some
> builders have some pretty wild imaginations and make modifications that are
> really dangerous.
>
> Since you are not an experienced pilot, and I assume not an aircraft
> mechanic, how in the world do you know if it is a safe flying machine? If
> you've seen it fly, great, but that does not mean it is safe to fly. Do you
> know how to do a proper weight and balance calculation and why your life
> could depend upon it? Do you know if the wire ropes in the Kolb have
> properly swaged fittings? Do you know what to do if you get carburetor ice?
> Do you know what carburetor ice is and how to detect it? Do you know what a
> stall is? Do you know what causes a spin? Do you know to recover from a
> spin? Do you know what aileron flutter is? Do you know what adverse yaw is
> and how to correct for it?
>
> I'm not asking these questions to make you feel stupid. But you are
> ignorant. We all began totally ignorant of the things we MUST know to fly
> safely. Not a single pilot was born with this knowledge. We all learned it
> over time. And it does take time but not as long as you might think to get
> to the point that you can fly in relative safety.
>
> Please take the time required to learn to fly safely. If you do, you will
> have embarked upon an avocation that will reward you in ways that you cannot
> even begin to imagine. If you try to take shortcuts there is a good chance
> you will be dead before year end.
>
> On average one pilot in the USA dies every day in their airplanes. Most of
> these are in Certificated Standard Category Aircraft built buy factories
> approved by the FAA, flown by very experienced pilots and the airplanes are
> maintained by FAA approved Airframe and Powerplant Mechanics. Approximately
> 80% of these are caused by some form of pilot error or poor judgment.
>
> The ultimate in poor judgment is the decision to teach yourself to fly.
> Don't do it.
>
> --------
> Thom in Buffalo
> N197BG FS1/447
>
> --------------------
> "Blind respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
> Albert Einstein
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=128192#128192
>
>
--
Rick Girard
"Ya'll drop on in"
takes on a whole new meaning
when you live at the airport.
Message 31
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James, all the comments I have read so far are dead on the money, but
let me add something a bit different - Kolbs are great flying airplanes,
I love mine and promote Kolbs, but so far, the only one I have flown
that would fly hands off was a Firestar II with bunches of dihedral. My
MKIII will not fly hands off even with all the dihedral I could wedge
into it. (So I put it back stock. Why look odd if it doesn't help
anything?)
When I first met John Hauck, within the first three minutes he told me
that a Kolb would not fly hands off, and that is true.
Think about that very carefully.
Some of the guys on the list might call this heresy, but a standard Kolb
WILL NOT FLY hands off. It will figure out a way to depart from straight
and level flight. Do you really want to learn to fly in such a device?
Stock, it is a neutral stability airplane. Which make it delightful to
fly, but probably the world's worst choice to teach yourself to fly in.
Learn to fly first, get good at it, and then fly the Kolb, and you will
love it. Try to teach yourself to fly in it, and you will scream at it.
But probably not for long.
End of sermon.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
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