Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:47 AM - joe Nall (tc1917)
2. 04:56 AM - Re: Wiring diagram (planecrazzzy)
3. 05:14 AM - FS 447 Good News / Bad News (Thom Riddle)
4. 06:24 AM - Firestar II to Firefly (Al Bumhoffer)
5. 06:33 AM - Re: CHT & EGT control (Richard Girard)
6. 06:39 AM - Re: Re: Suzuki 1.3 DOC 16V (gary aman)
7. 06:43 AM - Re: Kolb Homecoming?? (Jim Kmet)
8. 06:49 AM - Re: Wiring diagram (Richard Girard)
9. 07:04 AM - Re: Re: Suzuki 1.3 DOC 16V (Richard Girard)
10. 07:40 AM - Re: FS 447 Good News / Bad News (George Alexander)
11. 07:49 AM - Re: Re: Suzuki 1.3 DOC 16V (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
12. 09:35 AM - Re: Re: Suzuki 1.3 DOC 16V (gary aman)
13. 10:03 AM - Re: FS 447 Good News / Bad News (robert bean)
14. 12:09 PM - Re: Gonna be flyier (Russ Kinne)
15. 12:11 PM - Re: FS 447 Good News / Bad News (Larry Cottrell)
16. 12:50 PM - Re: FS 447 Good News / Bad News (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
17. 01:29 PM - Re: Re: Suzuki 1.3 DOC 16V (gary aman)
18. 02:27 PM - Re: Gonna be flyier (pat ladd)
19. 02:28 PM - Re: Re: Suzuki 1.3 DOC 16V (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
20. 02:55 PM - Firestar II to Firefly (Jack B. Hart)
21. 03:01 PM - Re: joe Nall (Steven Green)
22. 03:08 PM - Re: Firestar II to Firefly (John Hauck)
23. 03:12 PM - Re: Gonna be flyier (Richard Pike)
24. 03:41 PM - Re: FS 447 Good News / Bad News (planecrazzzy)
25. 04:02 PM - Re: Gonna be flyier (planecrazzzy)
26. 04:48 PM - Re: Re: Gonna be flyier (Larry Cottrell)
27. 04:59 PM - Re: FS 447 Good News / Bad News (Thom Riddle)
28. 05:41 PM - Help to fix careless mistake (Tom Deiulio)
29. 05:57 PM - Re: Help to fix careless mistake (Malcolmbru@aol.com)
30. 06:05 PM - Re: Help to fix careless mistake (John Hauck)
31. 06:13 PM - Re: Help to fix careless mistake (John Hauck)
32. 06:17 PM - Re: Re: Suzuki 1.3 DOC 16V (gary aman)
33. 06:27 PM - Re: Help to fix careless mistake (Malcolmbru@aol.com)
34. 06:27 PM - Re: Firestar II to Firefly (Jack B. Hart)
35. 06:31 PM - Re: Help to fix careless mistake (Richard Pike)
36. 06:33 PM - Fw: Re: Gonna be flyier (Larry Cottrell)
37. 06:34 PM - Re: Help to fix careless mistake (Malcolmbru@aol.com)
38. 06:35 PM - Re: Help to fix careless mistake (Ralph B)
39. 06:51 PM - Original Firestar (Malcolmbru@aol.com)
40. 07:16 PM - Re: Re: Suzuki 1.3 DOC 16V (Richard Girard)
41. 07:19 PM - Re: CHT & EGT control (Ed Chmielewski)
42. 07:34 PM - Re: Help to fix careless mistake (Richard Girard)
43. 08:19 PM - Re: Help to fix careless mistake (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
44. 08:32 PM - Re: Re: Suzuki 1.3 DOC 16V (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
45. 08:51 PM - Re: Help to fix careless mistake (GeoR38@aol.com)
46. 09:16 PM - Re: FS 447 Good News / Bad News (jb92563)
47. 09:34 PM - Re: Help to fix careless mistake (jb92563)
48. 09:49 PM - Re: Gainin new outlook (jb92563)
Message 1
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I have been flying RCs most of my life and have been to SC to Pat Hartness'
place 9 years in a row but not since he bought the new airfield. He is a
wonderful person and everything is cool but I gotta tell you one thing for
sure and for certain. He is super rich and the rich dont get rich by giving
it away. If you go, you will probably have a great time but it wont be free
by any means. (Notice it doesnt say ANYTHING about $$). If history of his
get-togethers holds true, there will be a ramp fee, parking fee, entranace
fee, camping fee, toilet fee, walking fee, standing fee and of course,
watching fee which will be more. And, bring a lot of $$ to eat. He doesnt
do anything for free. It may be okay $$ this year but it will expand to make
him big $$ later. You can bet on that. I dont mean to bad mouth him and
his crew, it is just not a Kolb family type get-to-gether. It is way out in
the sticks, about twenty miles from town, so everything that you are going
to need, you gonna have to get from there. There is also one thing to think
about. If you find the advertisement for this event, something like
"licensed pilots and crew, certified aircraft", he aint gonna let fat
uncertified ultralights into his party. He doesnt take chances on anything.
When we fly the RCs there, they stopped the warbird giants cause they make
too much noise, others had to have special shut down switches, etc. that
doesn't not occur at other places. I am just saying that if you are not
totally legal, have a really nice plane, I wouldnt go there. I would find
somewhere else -- like the Kolb fly. At least you will feel wanted, and bet
your life, you will have a good time. my two cents. My guess is this is
primarily for his very rich friends to fly in with their bigger than life
aircraft. I dont see this as a "look at my pretty Kolb" type flyin.
Whatever floats your boat. My money is on the hospitality and goodness of
the Kolb family where we appreciate each other and what we have and do.
Probably take the heat on this one but I have experience there. Ted Cowan,
Alabama
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Wiring diagram |
Hi Wade,
The starter won't involve you EIS or most of those other things.
It just cranks the engine.....You already have something that turns the
ignition on & off...
My GPL starter came with wiring instructions , to either run it to Ducati
dual ingnition w/start , or to just a plain start button.
Ground the starter , Hot wire from the Starter to the silenoid
then wires from the silenoid to the start button....
Do you want me to scan the papers and send them to you ?
it might help with wire guage sizes.... ?
.
.
.
Gotta Fly...
Mike & "Jaz" in MN
.
.
.
--------
.
.
.
.
.
Do Not Archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=128720#128720
Message 3
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| Subject: | FS 447 Good News / Bad News |
447 Good News
I installed a primer and solved the hard starting problem when cold. It starts
on first pull every time with the primer. I also installed the 15E5U jet needle
and it stabilized the low rpm operation just fine. It was still just a smidgeon
too lean with the clip in the #3 slot. Unfortunately, LEAF sent me an old
jet needle with only three slots. The new ones have 4 slots, which I would need
to make it perfect, even with the slightly richer 2.72 needle jet. But it ran
so smooth at low rpm I was delighted.
FS1 Bad News
I flew the FS to Bob Bean's place on Sat AM and the flight was perfect until my
final approach, in which I was trying to perfect my short field landing technique.
I had a light quartering headwind and was going a bit slower than my normal
approach. I did not take into account the dead air spot just downwind from
the line of trees at the approach end and I stalled at about 8 feet above the
runway in the dead air pocket. At least that is my best guess as to what happened.
In any case it was Pilot Error, pure and simple. The FS did what all airplanes
do when they run low on airspeed, it quit flying. Upon "landing" the left
tire hit the only pot hole in Bob's field right at the threshold. The axle
weldment broke off, the left gear dug in and I executed the famous Kolb Somersault
with the nose cone acting like a pole vaulter's pole in the ground, taking
a nice sized divot from the runway, thus landing upside down. The 4130 tubing
gear legs took it all in stride.
I released my wonderful safety harness, banged my head and rolled out of the cockpit.
There was fuel dripping on the ground behind me. Fortunately, just before
this flight, I had trimmed the overhead gap seal back to several inches ahead
of the engine so the fuel was not being funneled aft to the hot engine.
Bob Bean witnessed the whole acrobatic maneuver so you'll have to ask him if it
was a perfect 10 or perhaps only a 9. On the bright side, I think I broke my
record for short field landings. I didn't measure it but it appears that from
first touchdown to the stopping point was on the order of 40 feet or so.
We removed the wings and with the aid of Bob Bean's backhoe we hoisted the FS and
rolled it back right side up then rigged a temporary dolly for the broken wheel
to move the aircraft off the active runway. I use the term active runway
with a lot of poetic license.
Personal Results
Two very bloody shins from the instrument panel frame that was trying to occupy
the same space as my legs. Slightly bloody bald spot on the crown of my head
which I didn't notice until I got home. Thanks for the 40+ mile drive home, Bob.
Engine Results
One blade on the Powerfin is showing its innards. The other blade looks okay. The
cabin heat muff on the cylinder head is bent a bit but repairable if I care
to, probably not since I didn't plan on flying it in the winter anyway. Otherwise
the engine is probably not affected in any way.
Airframe Results
Right wing leading edge crumpled at wing tip with damage to a couple ribs (true
or false, didn't check closely). Left wing appears undamaged but the left wing
strut bent a bit. Tail boom broken but empenage completely undamaged. Fuselage
cage has slight damage to left upper longeron. Nose structure needs some cutting
and welding. Instrument panel needs rebuilding and some instrument panel
structure needs to be re-built. Fuselage cage fabric will have to be redone and
perhaps the door canopy too.
My question to all you Kolbers who have been upside down on the ground in your
Kolb, is this:
"Do I now qualify for membership in the Coveted Kolb Somersault Cadre?"
please do not archive this big mistake.
--------
Thom in Buffalo
N197BG FS1/447
--------------------
"Blind respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
Albert Einstein
Read this topic online here:
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Message 4
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| Subject: | Firestar II to Firefly |
I just sold my Firestar II with a 503 DCDIafter flying it for 108 hours.
I loved my plane, but did not want to get a Sport Pilot license and now
I plan to buy a Firefly with a 447. I am wondering what to expect as
far as differences in handling, take off speed and distance, cruise and
stall. Are new Kolb specs in the ballbark? I have never had an UL with
flaperons. When do you Firefly pilots use your flaperons? Just for
landing or also for take offs. Has any one used VG's on the Firefly?
Al Bumhoffer, Elkton, MI
Do Not Archive
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: CHT & EGT control |
Ed, No, angle of attack is defined, if I remember my ground school training
correctly, and I offer no guarantees, as the angle between the wing and the
relative wind, which does change with elevator movement.
Thrust line, on airplanes, is fixed, with the exceptions noted. On trikes,
with the wing free to move in the pitch axis, it is not.
I used this ability coming back from the Vintage Aircraft Fly In at
Halstead, KS, yesterday. I allowed CHT to get to 310 degrees climbing to
2500 feet, then cruised at 4800 RPM instead of the usual 4700 so I could
unload the prop and cool the heads. When the CHT's came down to 295 I
decreased the RPM to normal cruise. It doesn't sound like much change, but
it works.
Although the normal cruise speed of the trike is 42, I use 48 to 50 for
approach for better control. If I'm making a power off approach, the prop is
driven to a higher RPM than the throttle is set for, and CHT plummets as a
result of less heat from burning fuel and the unloading of the prop.
If I make a power on approach at 3700 RPM the load on the prop is stabilized
and CHT's remain stable until I chop power once I'm well into ground effect.
Rick
PS I also learned something new yesterday. Nothing increases the intensity
of your vision scan like seeing a KC135 go under you.
Do not archive
On 8/11/07, Ed Chmielewski <edchmiel@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Rick,
>
> I believe you mean Angle of Attack. Angle of Incidence is fixed
> on most aircraft.
>
> Good seeing you and Hauck at OSH>
>
> Ed in JXN
> MkII/503
> Do not archive.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Richard & Martha Neilsen <NeilsenRM@comcast.net>
> *To:* kolb-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2007 2:28 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Kolb-List: CHT & EGT control
>
> Richard
>
> Thanks for the input. I figured the EGT would go up like it does in a 2
> stroke.
>
> As for your comment about "variable angle of incidence" not available in a
> regular aircraft? I think you fail to understand the fact that both types of
> aircraft have the ability and need for changing the angle of incidence. You
> do that by shifting your weight and we do it by elevator deflection.
>
> Rick Neilsen
> Redrive VW Powered MKIII
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Girard
"Ya'll drop on in"
takes on a whole new meaning
when you live at the airport.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Suzuki 1.3 DOC 16V |
Dan,
There may be others who have a jabiru mounted on their Kolb,but I for one do
not recommend it.It is a fine engine and runs sweetly with super fuel economy
easy starting hot or cold,but turning a direct drive 3000 rpm propeller in a
Kolb's wing wash produces more noise than you can control.You will not believe
the lengths I have gone to trying to isolate the cabin from this din.Any geared
option would serve you better.Keeping the prop rpm under 2200 or 2300rpm makes
a big difference.A geared engine w/3.47-1 would be my choice.
G Aman,235hr on the Jabiru with my ears still ringing
I have a friend that's mounting a Jabiru on his Avid right now. It's supposed to
weigh the same as a 582 but has 80 hp. He said that it will be flying next week.
I'll try to keep you posted. That engine should work fine on a Kolb.
Dan Charter
northern MN
Read this topic online here:
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Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb Homecoming?? |
Kolb Homecoming is Sept. 28- 30 , 2007
Jim
MK-3C Cookeville, TN
----- Original Message -----
From: Steven Green
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2007 9:21 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb Homecoming??
Hey Gang,
I haven't been flying much since my attempt to get to PA in June,
well one day to go to Morristown, but that is it. I need to fly!!!
I just learned today about a fly-in at Triple Tree Aerodrome (SC00) in
SC (link below). This will be their first full scale fly-in but they
have been hosting the "Joe Nall" Giant Scale model show for years and it
is a first class operation. Only problem is I think it is the same
weekend as the Kolb Homecoming. Has anyone heard the dates for the Kolb
fly-in yet? Triple Tree starts on Wednesday so I may do Wednesday and
Thursday there then go to London.
http://www.joenall.com/joenall2/EAAnews%20release.jpg
Steven
do not archive
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Wiring diagram |
Wade, all, Here on the Matronics list is a wonderful resource called the
AeroElectric Connection. Run by a fellow named Bob Nuckolls, it is a
treasure trove of his 40+ years as an avionics guru for manufacturers here
in Wichita.
He publishes a manual, with the same name as the web site, that includes
sample wiring diagrams in the appendices. Take a look at Figure Z-17, Small
Rotax System. It's about as simple as can be done and eliminates the need
for the constant draw of a battery contactor.
Rick
On 8/11/07, WADE LAWICKI <wlawicki@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Group,
> Anyone out there have a wiring diagram for their plane? I`m
> getting close to pulling wires and one would help a bunch with saving
> time.I have- 582, key west, electric start, fuel pump EIS, fuel level, 2
> accy. plugs. Not sure of what size breakers of fuses to use, and never
> wired for a starter before? Any ideas?
>
> Fly Safe,
>
> Wade
> do not archive
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Girard
"Ya'll drop on in"
takes on a whole new meaning
when you live at the airport.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Suzuki 1.3 DOC 16V |
Gary, Have you tried an extension to get the prop a little further from the
wing and pod? You'd have to check with the Jabiru folks to see if the
bearings can handle the extra leverage the extension adds to all the usual
prop forces, but if can be used, it might help reduce your noise level.
Rick
do not archive
On 8/12/07, gary aman <gaman@att.net> wrote:
>
> Dan,
> There may be others who have a jabiru mounted on their Kolb,but I for
> one do not recommend it.It is a fine engine and runs sweetly with super
> fuel economy easy starting hot or cold,but turning a direct drive 3000 rpm
> propeller in a Kolb's wing wash produces more noise than you can
> control.You will not believe the lengths I have gone to trying to isolate
> the cabin from this din.Any geared option would serve you better.Keepingthe prop
rpm under 2200 or 2300rpm makes a big
> difference.A geared engine w/3.47-1 would be my choice.
> G Aman,235hr on the Jabiru with my ears still
> ringing
>
> *lndc <lndc@fnbcnet.com>* wrote:
>
>
> I
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Girard
"Ya'll drop on in"
takes on a whole new meaning
when you live at the airport.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: FS 447 Good News / Bad News |
Thom:
Sorry about your mishap. Glad you were not seriously injured. Looks like a
made-to-order winter project.
Thom Riddle wrote:
> 447 Good News
>
>
> FS1 Bad News
>
>
>
>
DO NOT ARCHIVE
--------
George Alexander
http://gtalexander.home.att.net
Read this topic online here:
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Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Suzuki 1.3 DOC 16V |
Rick
It isn't a fluke. High RPM direct drive engines on Kolbs just don't
perform very well. You can add extensions which I did with my direct
drive VW to cut noise or add power but it really didn't help anything.
John W had a Jabiru and New Kolb tried them for a while but they don't
recommend them any more. In England where the 912 hasn't been certified
they don't have a choice. The horsepower to weight figure sounds great
but it is thrust that moves airplanes and high RPM props just don't
produce thrust as efficiently as low RPM props. I hear people say that
it works better on higher speed airplanes which maybe true but world war
II airplanes used reduction drives on V12s and radial engines. I don't
consider WWII aircraft slow so there must have been some advantage for
them too.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Girard
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 10:03 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Suzuki 1.3 DOC 16V
Gary, Have you tried an extension to get the prop a little further
from the wing and pod? You'd have to check with the Jabiru folks to see
if the bearings can handle the extra leverage the extension adds to all
the usual prop forces, but if can be used, it might help reduce your
noise level.
Rick
do not archive
On 8/12/07, gary aman <gaman@att.net> wrote:
Dan,
There may be others who have a jabiru mounted on their Kolb,but I
for one do not recommend it.It is a fine engine and runs sweetly with
super fuel economy easy starting hot or cold,but turning a direct drive
3000 rpm propeller in a Kolb's wing wash produces more noise than you
can control.You will not believe the lengths I have gone to trying to
isolate the cabin from this din.Any geared option would serve you
better.Keeping the prop rpm under 2200 or 2300rpm makes a big
difference.A geared engine w/3.47-1 would be my choice.
G Aman,235hr on the Jabiru with my ears still
ringing
lndc <lndc@fnbcnet.com > wrote:
I
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
http://forums.matronics.com
when you live at the airport.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Suzuki 1.3 DOC 16V |
Rick,
The Jabiru folks are real picky in the prop dept.The prop adapter sets it
back about 4 in.I will inquire about an extension and see what they have to say.They
want only a wood prop,something about vibrations that cause the flywheel
bolts to loosen.Ivo told me no can do for this engine.
I'll get back to you soon as I contact Jabiru
Thanks G.Aman
Richard Girard <jindoguy@gmail.com> wrote: Gary, Have you tried an extension to
get the prop a little further from the wing and pod? You'd have to check with
the Jabiru folks to see if the bearings can handle the extra leverage the extension
adds to all the usual prop forces, but if can be used, it might help reduce
your noise level.
Rick
do not archive
On 8/12/07, gary aman <gaman@att.net> wrote: Dan,
There may be others who have a jabiru mounted on their Kolb,but I for one do
not recommend it.It is a fine engine and runs sweetly with super fuel economy
easy starting hot or cold,but turning a direct drive 3000 rpm propeller in a
Kolb's wing wash produces more noise than you can control.You will not believe
the lengths I have gone to trying to isolate the cabin from this din.Any geared
option would serve you better.Keeping the prop rpm under 2200 or 2300rpm
makes a big difference.A geared engine w/3.47-1 would be my choice.
G Aman,235hr on the Jabiru with my ears still ringing
I
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List http://forums.matronics.com
when you live at the airport.
Message 13
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| Subject: | re: FS 447 Good News / Bad News |
Thom/all, yup, sure spoilt what promised to be a great day.
-from my observation point of 30' away: Good approach over the
cornstalks again.
Got a little slow, stall actually only about 3-4' off the ground.
Should have been survivable.
Left wheel assembly busted clean off at axle and zipped off to the
right.
left leg skidded about 15' on turf before digging in. Would have
been a small incident on pavement.
Looking at the axle fitting, I'm surprised it lasted as long as it
did. Too frail a design with
one circular weld and no gusset. A good gear leg will bend before
anything breaks.
Wing damage is two false ribs, one full. Leading edge tube
(spliceable), tip bow.
A lazy guy like me would leave the good fabric on and lap the repair
over it.
Some welding at the front, new boom tube. Yer right George, sounds
like a winter project to me :)
BB, MkIIIc,
do not archive
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Gonna be flyier |
Well said, Pat!!
On Aug 9, 2007, at 12:05 PM, pat ladd wrote:
> Jut wantin to jump in it an teach myself to fly it. >>
>
> James,
> we all started out like that , full of enthusiasm and `get up and
> go`. Of all the people on this list and the many pilots I have met
> I only know one person who actually taught himself to fly and live
> to tell the tale.
>
> You `other half` is absolutely right to be going on about
> insurance, but no insurance company in the world will pay out on an
> illegal pilot. That is what you will be if you try to fly without
> proper lessons and a licence.
>
> Dont be a fool. .Flying is a great sport but it is not worth
> getting yourself killed.
>
> Wise up
>
> Pat
>
> do not archive
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List_-
> ============================================================ _-
> forums.matronics.com_-
> ===========================================================
>
Message 15
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|
| Subject: | Re: FS 447 Good News / Bad News |
My question to all you Kolbers who have been upside down on the ground in
your Kolb, is this:
>
> "Do I now qualify for membership in the Coveted Kolb Somersault Cadre?"
>
> please do not archive this big mistake.
>
> --------
> Thom in Buffalo
> N197BG FS1/447
Thom,
Very sorry to hear of your mishap. Been there done that! As for the
"club"? I am not real sure how many qualify for it. Myself, Rocks and sage,
Dennis, mud flats, but others I am not sure. I remember my bat like
experience of hanging in my harness, and my wonder that nothing hurt. I did
find that I probably had a "green stick" break of my middle finger, caused
by holding onto the throttle during the crash. Great little plane!
Larry C
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: FS 447 Good News / Bad News |
Thom
Sorry to hear about the problem. Get er fixed and flyn for next year.
Do not archive
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 8:14 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: FS 447 Good News / Bad News
>
> 447 Good News
> I installed a primer and solved the hard starting problem when cold. It
> starts on first pull every time with the primer. I also installed the
> 15E5U jet needle and it stabilized the low rpm operation just fine. It was
> still just a smidgeon too lean with the clip in the #3 slot.
> Unfortunately, LEAF sent me an old jet needle with only three slots. The
> new ones have 4 slots, which I would need to make it perfect, even with
> the slightly richer 2.72 needle jet. But it ran so smooth at low rpm I was
> delighted.
>
> FS1 Bad News
> I flew the FS to Bob Bean's place on Sat AM and the flight was perfect
> until my final approach, in which I was trying to perfect my short field
> landing technique. I had a light quartering headwind and was going a bit
> slower than my normal approach. I did not take into account the dead air
> spot just downwind from the line of trees at the approach end and I
> stalled at about 8 feet above the runway in the dead air pocket. At least
> that is my best guess as to what happened. In any case it was Pilot Error,
> pure and simple. The FS did what all airplanes do when they run low on
> airspeed, it quit flying. Upon "landing" the left tire hit the only pot
> hole in Bob's field right at the threshold. The axle weldment broke off,
> the left gear dug in and I executed the famous Kolb Somersault with the
> nose cone acting like a pole vaulter's pole in the ground, taking a nice
> sized divot from the runway, thus landing upside down. The 4130 tubing
> gear legs took it all in stride.
>
> I released my wonderful safety harness, banged my head and rolled out of
> the cockpit. There was fuel dripping on the ground behind me. Fortunately,
> just before this flight, I had trimmed the overhead gap seal back to
> several inches ahead of the engine so the fuel was not being funneled aft
> to the hot engine.
>
> Bob Bean witnessed the whole acrobatic maneuver so you'll have to ask him
> if it was a perfect 10 or perhaps only a 9. On the bright side, I think I
> broke my record for short field landings. I didn't measure it but it
> appears that from first touchdown to the stopping point was on the order
> of 40 feet or so.
>
> We removed the wings and with the aid of Bob Bean's backhoe we hoisted the
> FS and rolled it back right side up then rigged a temporary dolly for the
> broken wheel to move the aircraft off the active runway. I use the term
> active runway with a lot of poetic license.
>
> Personal Results
> Two very bloody shins from the instrument panel frame that was trying to
> occupy the same space as my legs. Slightly bloody bald spot on the crown
> of my head which I didn't notice until I got home. Thanks for the 40+ mile
> drive home, Bob.
>
> Engine Results
> One blade on the Powerfin is showing its innards. The other blade looks
> okay. The cabin heat muff on the cylinder head is bent a bit but
> repairable if I care to, probably not since I didn't plan on flying it in
> the winter anyway. Otherwise the engine is probably not affected in any
> way.
>
> Airframe Results
> Right wing leading edge crumpled at wing tip with damage to a couple ribs
> (true or false, didn't check closely). Left wing appears undamaged but the
> left wing strut bent a bit. Tail boom broken but empenage completely
> undamaged. Fuselage cage has slight damage to left upper longeron. Nose
> structure needs some cutting and welding. Instrument panel needs
> rebuilding and some instrument panel structure needs to be re-built.
> Fuselage cage fabric will have to be redone and perhaps the door canopy
> too.
>
> My question to all you Kolbers who have been upside down on the ground in
> your Kolb, is this:
>
> "Do I now qualify for membership in the Coveted Kolb Somersault Cadre?"
>
> please do not archive this big mistake.
>
> --------
> Thom in Buffalo
> N197BG FS1/447
>
> --------------------
> "Blind respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
> Albert Einstein
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=128721#128721
>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Suzuki 1.3 DOC 16V |
I believe you have the best of both worlds in a rock solid engine and a slow turning
large disc .You and they should be very happy together.Have they found a
way to drive off of the big end of the shaft? I've built and raced VW s back
in the 70's and have high regard for them.
Richard & Martha Neilsen <NeilsenRM@comcast.net>
wrote: Rick
It isn't a fluke. High RPM direct drive engines on Kolbs just don't perform very
well. You can add extensions which I did with my direct drive VW to cut noise
or add power but it really didn't help anything. John W had a Jabiru and
New Kolb tried them for a while but they don't recommend them any more. In England
where the 912 hasn't been certified they don't have a choice. The horsepower
to weight figure sounds great but it is thrust that moves airplanes and
high RPM props just don't produce thrust as efficiently as low RPM props. I
hear people say that it works better on higher speed airplanes which maybe true
but world war II airplanes used reduction drives on V12s and radial engines.
I don't consider WWII aircraft slow so there must have been some advantage
for them too.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Girard
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 10:03 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Suzuki 1.3 DOC 16V
Gary, Have you tried an extension to get the prop a little further from the
wing and pod? You'd have to check with the Jabiru folks to see if the bearings
can handle the extra leverage the extension adds to all the usual prop
forces, but if can be used, it might help reduce your noise level.
Rick
do not archive
On 8/12/07, gary aman <gaman@att.net> wrote: Dan,
There may be others who have a jabiru mounted on their Kolb,but I for one
do not recommend it.It is a fine engine and runs sweetly with super fuel
economy easy starting hot or cold,but turning a direct drive 3000 rpm
propeller in a Kolb's wing wash produces more noise than you can control.You
will not believe the lengths I have gone to trying to isolate the
cabin from this din.Any geared option would serve you better.Keeping the
prop rpm under 2200 or 2300rpm makes a big difference.A geared engine
w/3.47-1 would be my choice.
G Aman,235hr on the Jabiru with my ears still ringing
lndc <lndc@fnbcnet.com > wrote: --> Kolb-List message posted
by: "lndc"
I
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List http://forums.matronics.com
when you live at the airport.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Gonna be flyier |
Hi Russ,
I reckon this flying game is difficult enough when you have been taught
properly let alone doing it with no training.
I have had my plane back about 3 weeks now. Still waiting for paperwork
clearance to test fly. In the meantime I have been trying to sort out
where the radio goes, ariel etc and rigging up a pulley system to enable
me to back the machine into my hangar singlehanded. Unlike the
Challenger there are no metal bits to grab hold of to push the plane
about. I can get her out by pushing on the prop hub. Going backwards is
the problem. I have also been reaquainting myself with the joys of
taxying a tail dragger. Surprising what you forget after a years lay
off. I managed a downwind taxy in a stiffish breeze, only having to do a
360 once but I dropped the starboard wheel in a hole just as I gunned
the engine to turn into wind. You guessed. The wheels went nowhere and
the nose went down and I managed to side swipe the pitot tube before I
could cut the throttle. I could see the sense of the hoops some people
fit under the nose cone. No fibreglass damage but I have to find a
small boy I can stuff inside the nose cone with a spanner to unbolt the
pitot fitting. I am too big and too stiff in the joints to get in there
myself.
Happy sailing
Pat
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Suzuki 1.3 DOC 16V |
Gary
I'm very happy with the current setup which drives the prop off the
pulley end of the VW crank. It would seem that it would be better to
drive the prop off the flywheel end but it isn't done very often. The
current setup is smooth and works so well that I would wouldn't fix it.
I will leave it so some one else to sort out a redrive on the flywheel
end assuming that would really be better. I might switch to a gear drive
if it was light and smooth enough. but I would need proof it is better.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIC
----- Original Message -----
From: gary aman
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 4:29 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Suzuki 1.3 DOC 16V
I believe you have the best of both worlds in a rock solid engine and
a slow turning large disc .You and they should be very happy
together.Have they found a way to drive off of the big end of the shaft?
I've built and raced VW s back in the 70's and have high regard for
them.
Richard & Martha Neilsen <NeilsenRM@comcast.net> wrote:
Rick
It isn't a fluke. High RPM direct drive engines on Kolbs just don't
perform very well. You can add extensions which I did with my direct
drive VW to cut noise or add power but it really didn't help anything.
John W had a Jabiru and New Kolb tried them for a while but they don't
recommend them any more. In England where the 912 hasn't been certified
they don't have a choice. The horsepower to weight figure sounds great
but it is thrust that moves airplanes and high RPM props just don't
produce thrust as efficiently as low RPM props. I hear people say that
it works better on higher speed airplanes which maybe true but world war
II airplanes used reduction drives on V12s and radial engines. I don't
consider WWII aircraft slow so there must have been some advantage for
them too.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Girard
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 10:03 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Suzuki 1.3 DOC 16V
Gary, Have you tried an extension to get the prop a little further
from the wing and pod? You'd have to check with the Jabiru folks to see
if the bearings can handle the extra leverage the extension adds to all
the usual prop forces, but if can be used, it might help reduce your
noise level.
Rick
do not archive
On 8/12/07, gary aman <gaman@att.net> wrote:
Dan,
There may be others who have a jabiru mounted on their
Kolb,but I for one do not recommend it.It is a fine engine and runs
sweetly with super fuel economy easy starting hot or cold,but turning a
direct drive 3000 rpm propeller in a Kolb's wing wash produces more
noise than you can control.You will not believe the lengths I have gone
to trying to isolate the cabin from this din.Any geared option would
serve you better.Keeping the prop rpm under 2200 or 2300rpm makes a big
difference.A geared engine w/3.47-1 would be my choice.
G Aman,235hr on the Jabiru with my ears
still ringing
lndc <lndc@fnbcnet.com > wrote:
I
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
http://forums.matronics.com when you live at the airport.
Message 20
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| Subject: | Firestar II to Firefly |
I just sold my Firestar II with a 503 DCDI after flying it for 108 hours. I
loved my plane, but did not want to get a Sport Pilot license and now I plan
to buy a Firefly with a 447. I am wondering what to expect as far as
differences in handling, take off speed and distance, cruise and stall. Are
new Kolb specs in the ballpark? I have never had an UL with flaperons. When
do you Firefly pilots use your flaperons? Just for landing or also for take
offs. Has any one used VG's on the Firefly? Al Bumhoffer, Elkton, MI
Al,
I have flown a FireFly since September, 1999 and I have never flown a
FireStar II, so I cannot offer a direct comparison. The Kolb specs are in
the ball park. I use the flaperons on takeoff from grass. I have a
continuously variable flaperon control that lets me set any setting I want.
I have found that five degrees lets the FireFly lift off in the three point
stance with the stick in the neutral position. I use the flaperons on when
landing on and taking off from grass strips. I never use them on hard
surface runways.
I do have VG's mounted on the wing and under the horizontal stabilizer.
They calmed nervous and twitchy FireFly. The FireFly will lift off and land
a few mph slower than before installing them. The horizontal stabilizer
VG's were added to increase back stick effectiveness. With the VG's on the
wing, the FireFly would not stall. It performed a parachuteal descent or
mush rather than break cleanly. Since adding the horizontal stabilizer VG's
and a gap seal, the FireFly will once again stall. The engine reduction
unit is rotated to the left to counteract forward slip at cruise (no rudder
trim). With more propeller wash air flowing over the left wing the FireFly
so the right wing stalls and the FireFly falls off or rolls to the right.
Upon testing, at 5,000 rpm the FireFly would not stall at 20 degree up
elevator (full stick back). At 4,500 rpm the right wing gave warnings that
it did not like what was going on but the FireFly bored straight on. When
I reduced the rpm to 4,000 rpm, and the stick approached 20 degrees up
elevator, the right wing complained and finally unloaded and the FireFly
fell off to the right.
Years ago when I investigated flaperon usage, I was not able to raise the
nose in an approach descent at 50 mphi. Recently there was discussion
of the Kolb List about VG's on the horizontal stabilizer, and I realized I
had not revisited this since I added the gap seal and VG's to the
horizontal stabilizer. From my flight log:
"July 16, 2007 - Flight 656 - 29 minutes 55 seconds, 226:37 tt, Victor 1+
146:47 burned 0.82 gallons for an overall fuel burn of @ 1.64 gph???. Flew
to check out the effect of horizontal stabilizer VG's and gap seal on
elevator authority and flaperon position and stall. Flew early in the
morning so there were no thermals. Started out at 2,000 feet agl. No
problems lifting the nose at 40, 45, & 50 mphi with flaperons fully
extended. Maximum elevator deflection to raise the nose was slightly over
ten degrees. ............."
I have on my short list a reminder to vary the flaperon settings and to
check out stall, and forward and side slips. Waiting for a quiet, cool,
and clear morning.
I hope this helps you out. If you would like to subject your self to some
abuse, you can check out my FireFly web site at:
http://www.thirdshift.com/jack/firefly/firefly.html
Would I fly without the VG's on the wings and the horizontal stabilizer?
- NO!
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
Message 21
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Ted,
Strange how two different people can be at the same place at the same time
and have two different opinions. I have been to several of the Joe Nall
events, more on his estate than at Triple Tree. The years I attended there
was no charge to get in, just be current AMA member. We were always allowed
bring our own food and drinks if we wished. Not sure about camping I always
stayed in a motel. The barbeque dinner was worth the price the times I
went.
If I were having an event on my property I would not encourage unlicenesed
pilots or unregistered aircraft to come either.
We agree that nowhere can compete with the "family type get together" of the
Kolb homecoming. I have attended everyone they've had and one they didn't
have.
I am not trying to defend Pat, I hardly know him, I just didn't see things
the way you did.
If the weather is good I plan to attend the Triple Tree fly-in Wed & Thur
then on to TNK for the Homecoming. I'll let you know how it is.
do not archive
Steven
----- Original Message -----
From: "tc1917" <tc1917@hughes.net>
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 6:46 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: joe Nall
>
> I have been flying RCs most of my life and have been to SC to Pat
> Hartness' place 9 years in a row but not since he bought the new airfield.
> He is a wonderful person and everything is cool but I gotta tell you one
> thing for sure and for certain. He is super rich and the rich dont get
> rich by giving it away. If you go, you will probably have a great time
> but it wont be free by any means. (Notice it doesnt say ANYTHING about
> $$). If history of his get-togethers holds true, there will be a ramp fee,
> parking fee, entranace fee, camping fee, toilet fee, walking fee, standing
> fee and of course, watching fee which will be more. And, bring a lot of
> $$ to eat. He doesnt do anything for free. It may be okay $$ this year
> but it will expand to make him big $$ later. You can bet on that. I
> dont mean to bad mouth him and his crew, it is just not a Kolb family type
> get-to-gether. It is way out in the sticks, about twenty miles from town,
> so everything that you are going to need, you gonna have to get from
> there. There is also one thing to think about. If you find the
> advertisement for this event, something like "licensed pilots and crew,
> certified aircraft", he aint gonna let fat uncertified ultralights into
> his party. He doesnt take chances on anything. When we fly the RCs there,
> they stopped the warbird giants cause they make too much noise, others had
> to have special shut down switches, etc. that doesn't not occur at other
> places. I am just saying that if you are not totally legal, have a really
> nice plane, I wouldnt go there. I would find somewhere else -- like the
> Kolb fly. At least you will feel wanted, and bet your life, you will have
> a good time. my two cents. My guess is this is primarily for his very
> rich friends to fly in with their bigger than life aircraft. I dont see
> this as a "look at my pretty Kolb" type flyin. Whatever floats your boat.
> My money is on the hospitality and goodness of the Kolb family where we
> appreciate each other and what we have and do. Probably take the heat on
> this one but I have experience there. Ted Cowan, Alabama
>
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Firestar II to Firefly |
With the VG's on the
wing, the FireFly would not stall. It performed a parachuteal descent or
mush rather than break cleanly. Since adding the horizontal stabilizer VG's
and a gap seal, the FireFly will once again stall.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Hi Jack H:
Help me out here a lilttle.
If I understand the above statement correctly, you could not make your FF
stall with VGs installed. It mushed rather than broke cleanly.
Now it breaks cleanly and does not mush?
What is the advantage of that?
I bet it will stall with VGs.
john h
mkIII
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Gonna be flyier |
Hi Pat, here is our attempt at a pulley system. This allows me to pull the MKIII
up a slight incline that is barely possible unassisted. Ed uses a similar system
on his FSII, and since his airplane is a bit lighter, his pull is easier.
The clamps are simple. On mine, axle extensions with holes bored in the flat stock
to slip over the the extensions. For Ed's - a bolt at either end of the clamp
bracket to stick in the tube of the stock Kolb tailwheel assembly.
You will need at least 100' of rope.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=128807#128807
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050901_large_175.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050900_large_868.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050899_large_776.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050898_large_127.jpg
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: FS 447 Good News / Bad News |
Well, your OK....
Your in good spirits !
and winter's comin , for all those repairs...
Next time , run the Vent tubes "Below" the fuel tanks.....
That way , if she's ever "Belly Up" ....The fuel won't leak...
Glad to hear your alright.
.
.
Gotta Fly...
Mike & "Jaz" in MN
.
.
.
--------
.
.
.
.
.
Do Not Archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=128811#128811
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Gonna be flyier |
Hey Guys,
I'll add a little local story....
Old "Goat" , Ray Lejeune built a Firestar ( with Help )
Had 5 hrs training in a Cessna 150.....and thought that was enough...
Ground looped his plane a few times , ( Lucky to be alive )
Wrecked his plane so bad that he had to scrap it....
He NEVER got it into the air......Probly would have been in BIG trouble
if he did....
.
.
Ralph Burlingame Bought the engine (477) off it.....
.
.
Gotta Fly...
Mike & "Jaz" in MN - FSII/N381PM
Private Pilot w/ Taildragger endorsement & 5 hrs in "Like" Aircraft
.
.
.
--------
.
.
.
.
.
Do Not Archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=128815#128815
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Gonna be flyier |
> The clamps are simple. On mine, axle extensions with holes bored in the
> flat stock to slip over the the extensions. For Ed's - a bolt at either
> end of the clamp bracket to stick in the tube of the stock Kolb tailwheel
> assembly.
>
> You will need at least 100' of rope.
>
> Richard Pike
> MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Pat,
For some reason I didn't get your message on the forum, I saw R Pike's
message and went to the BB to see what he was talking about. I just made a
deal to hook on the tail wheel to pull mine where I want. The foot is in the
picture to give perspective. The deal is made from spare cro moly tubing.
The bent parts on the end are solid steel bent to that angle and welded into
the end of the tubes. The bend is there so that it does not contact the tail
when I am dragging the plane backwards.
Larry C
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: FS 447 Good News / Bad News |
Fellow Kolbers,
Thanks for all your good wishes and advice. If I had built the FS it would have
had an "upside down vent" among other things. Now is the time to make some of
those differences happen.
Thom in Buffalo
alias: Stalls Too High
do not archive
--------
Thom in Buffalo
N197BG FS1/447
--------------------
"Blind respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
Albert Einstein
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=128822#128822
Message 28
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| Subject: | Help to fix careless mistake |
I have just completed the left wing of my MkIII classic and am ready to
begin the right wing. I realized that I have mistakenly used 1 1/4"
tubing for the leading edge of the completed left wing instead of the 1
1/2" called for in the plans. I see two choices; drill out all of the
leading edge rivets and replace the 1 1/4" with 1 1/2" or also build the
right wing with 1 1/4" tubing and keep pressing on. Obviously the 1 1/2"
is stronger but is it enough to make a difference? I appreciate any
suggestions.
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Help to fix careless mistake |
just press on it will be weaker but that is not where it needs to be the
strongest I new a guy that flew into a tree crash landing into a swamp and he
fixed his leading edge with a closet rod and duck tape then flew it bask out
. malcolm michigan
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
Message 30
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| Subject: | Help to fix careless mistake |
Obviously the 1 1/2" is stronger but is it enough to make a difference? I
appreciate any suggestions.
Tom D:
The leading edge of the Kolb wing is the hardest working part of the wing.
If the wing fails, the leading edge will be the first to go.
I take no short cuts on building Kolb wings. In fact, I build them much
stronger than the plans call for. Reason: For my own self satisfaction.
If it was my wing, I would drill them out and replace with the correct size
tubing.
john h
mkiii - 2,699.9 hours
Message 31
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| Subject: | Help to fix careless mistake |
just press on it will be weaker but that is not where it needs to be the
strongest I new a guy that flew into a tree crash landing into a swamp and
he fixed his leading edge with a closet rod and duck tape then flew it bask
out . malcolm michigan
Malcolm Michigan:
How much weaker?
john h
mkIII
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Suzuki 1.3 DOC 16V |
Just thought on a pusher,the pointy end of the engine would be forward and the
bell housing mounting points make a solid attach for redrive system,just a thought.
GAman
Richard & Martha Neilsen <NeilsenRM@comcast.net> wrote: Gary
I'm very happy with the current setup which drives the prop off the pulley end
of the VW crank. It would seem that it would be better to drive the prop off
the flywheel end but it isn't done very often. The current setup is smooth
and works so well that I would wouldn't fix it. I will leave it so some one else
to sort out a redrive on the flywheel end assuming that would really be better.
I might switch to a gear drive if it was light and smooth enough. but
I would need proof it is better.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIC
----- Original Message -----
From: gary aman
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 4:29 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Suzuki 1.3 DOC 16V
I believe you have the best of both worlds in a rock solid engine and a slow
turning large disc .You and they should be very happy together.Have they found
a way to drive off of the big end of the shaft? I've built and raced VW
s back in the 70's and have high regard for them.
Richard & Martha Neilsen <NeilsenRM@comcast.net>
wrote: Rick
It isn't a fluke. High RPM direct drive engines on Kolbs just don't perform
very well. You can add extensions which I did with my direct drive
VW to cut noise or add power but it really didn't help anything. John W
had a Jabiru and New Kolb tried them for a while but they don't recommend
them any more. In England where the 912 hasn't been certified they don't
have a choice. The horsepower to weight figure sounds great but it is thrust
that moves airplanes and high RPM props just don't produce thrust as
efficiently as low RPM props. I hear people say that it works better on
higher speed airplanes which maybe true but world war II airplanes used reduction
drives on V12s and radial engines. I don't consider WWII aircraft
slow so there must have been some advantage for them too.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Girard
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 10:03 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Suzuki 1.3 DOC 16V
Gary, Have you tried an extension to get the prop a little further from
the wing and pod? You'd have to check with the Jabiru folks to see if the
bearings can handle the extra leverage the extension adds to all the
usual prop forces, but if can be used, it might help reduce your noise
level.
Rick
do not archive
On 8/12/07, gary aman <gaman@att.net> wrote: Dan,
There may be others who have a jabiru mounted on their Kolb,but I for
one do not recommend it.It is a fine engine and runs sweetly with
super fuel economy easy starting hot or cold,but turning a direct drive
3000 rpm propeller in a Kolb's wing wash produces more noise than
you can control.You will not believe the lengths I have gone to trying
to isolate the cabin from this din.Any geared option would serve you
better.Keeping the prop rpm under 2200 or 2300rpm makes a big
difference.A geared engine w/3.47-1 would be my choice.
G Aman,235hr on the Jabiru with my ears still ringing
lndc <lndc@fnbcnet.com > wrote: --> Kolb-List
message posted by: "lndc"
I
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List http://forums.matronics.com
when you live at the airport.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Help to fix careless mistake |
I saw a video of a guy named Denis, he flew a ultrastar into several high G
maneuvers trying to wreck a wing when it did fail it was not the leading
edge that failed it was the jury strut. when he deployed his chut it subjected
the plane to moor G,s than wrecking the wing did. malcolm michigan
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
Message 34
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| Subject: | Firestar II to Firefly |
At 05:07 PM 8/12/07 -0500, you wrote:
>
>Hi Jack H:
>
>Help me out here a lilttle.
>
>If I understand the above statement correctly, you could not make your FF
>stall with VGs installed. It mushed rather than broke cleanly.
>
>Now it breaks cleanly and does not mush?
>
>What is the advantage of that?
>
>I bet it will stall with VGs.
>
John,
With VG's on the wings only and the thrust line centered, one could pull the
stick back against the stop and the FireFly would mush straight ahead. No
tendency for a wing to drop and no need to kick a rudder pedal to pick up a
dropping wing in quiet air. You could displace the stick slightly off
center in roll and the plane would turn with out dropping a wing. I don't
remember the wing complaining that it was near stall, it just mushed.
Basically you are flying on the back side of the lift curve.
This is an indication that there was not enough elevator control to raise
the nose to the point that the wing would stop flying. Mushing may seem to
be a good thing, but I would rather the wing complain a little to warn me
that it is about to stop flying. The advantage is that you get a definite
warning where as you may not notice you are already mushing and dropping out
of the sky.
One of the things that happens when you add VG's to the wings, is that the
air remains attached to the upper wing surface for a greater distance from
the leading edge. This means that the center of lift is going to move more
toward the rear too. Since the center of lift is behind the cg, it will require
more tail down force to raise the nose. By adding the VG's to the bottom of
the horizontal stabilizer and a gap seal, it gives the added tail down force
required to get it to stall.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Help to fix careless mistake |
Sorry Mal, but I think that is bad advice.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
----- Original Message -----
From: Malcolmbru@aol.com
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 8:57 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Help to fix careless mistake
just press on it will be weaker but that is not where it needs to be
the strongest I new a guy that flew into a tree crash landing into a
swamp and he fixed his leading edge with a closet rod and duck tape
then flew it bask out . malcolm michigan
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
AOL.com.
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Gonna be flyier |
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Gonna be flyier
>> The clamps are simple. On mine, axle extensions with holes bored in the
>> flat stock to slip over the the extensions. For Ed's - a bolt at either
>> end of the clamp bracket to stick in the tube of the stock Kolb tailwheel
>> assembly.
>>
>> You will need at least 100' of rope.
>>
>> Richard Pike
>> MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
>
>
Pat,
For some reason I didn't get your message on the forum, I saw R Pike's
message and went to the BB to see what he was talking about. I just made
a
deal to hook on the tail wheel to pull mine where I want. The foot is in
the
picture to give perspective. The deal is made from spare cro moly tubing.
The bent parts on the end are solid steel bent to that angle and welded
into
the end of the tubes. The bend is there so that it does not contact the
tail
when I am dragging the plane backwards.
Larry C
>
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Help to fix careless mistake |
If you want it dun fast and cheep just hire a poor lazy man mal
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
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| Subject: | Re: Help to fix careless mistake |
Replace it with the correct tubing. After it's built you will have the satisfaction
of knowing its done right. If you don't fix it, and put the covering on,
it will be harder to replace the tubing if the plane has some bad tendencies.
A sharper leading edge makes for a sharper stall.
Ralph
--------
Ralph B
Original Firestar
20 years flying it
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=128840#128840
Message 39
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| Subject: | Original Firestar |
I had an original firestar and I loved it. I bought mine used from homer
kolb and they put a new 447 on it for me. last I herd it was in Wisconsin.
Dick just bought the other factory firestar 11 the one he landed in the
ditch at Oshkosh, and is thinking of selling it already. mal
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: Suzuki 1.3 DOC 16V |
Gary, Rick, all, Check out Great Plains Aircraft, they have redrives for
both ends of the VW.
http://www.greatplainsas.com/gpasproducts.html
Rick
do not archive
On 8/12/07, gary aman <gaman@att.net> wrote:
>
> Just thought on a pusher,the pointy end of the engine would be forward and
> the bell housing mounting points make a solid attach for redrive system,just
> a thought.
> GAman
>
> *Richard & Martha Neilsen <NeilsenRM@comcast.net>* wrote:
>
> Gary
>
> I'm very happy with the current setup which drives the prop off the pulley
> end of the VW crank. It would seem that it would be better to drive the prop
> off the flywheel end but it isn't done very often. The current setup is
> smooth and works so well that I would wouldn't fix it. I will leave it so
> some one else to sort out a redrive on the flywheel end assuming that would
> really be better. I might switch to a gear drive if it was light and smooth
> enough. but I would need proof it is better.
>
> Rick Neilsen
> Redrive VW powered MKIIIC
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* gary aman <gaman@att.net>
> *To:* kolb-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Sunday, August 12, 2007 4:29 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Kolb-List: Re: Suzuki 1.3 DOC 16V
>
> I believe you have the best of both worlds in a rock solid engine and a
> slow turning large disc .You and they should be very happy together.Havethey
found a way to drive off of the big end of the shaft? I've built and
> raced VW s back in the 70's and have high regard for them.
> *Richard
> & Martha Neilsen <NeilsenRM@comcast.net>* wrote:
>
> Rick
>
> It isn't a fluke. High RPM direct drive engines on Kolbs just don't
> perform very well. You can add extensions which I did with my direct drive
> VW to cut noise or add power but it really didn't help anything. John W had
> a Jabiru and New Kolb tried them for a while but they don't recommend them
> any more. In England where the 912 hasn't been certified they don't have a
> choice. The horsepower to weight figure sounds great but it is thrust that
> moves airplanes and high RPM props just don't produce thrust as efficiently
> as low RPM props. I hear people say that it works better on higher speed
> airplanes which maybe true but world war II airplanes used reduction drives
> on V12s and radial engines. I don't consider WWII aircraft slow so there
> must have been some advantage for them too.
>
> Rick Neilsen
> Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Richard Girard <jindoguy@gmail.com>
> *To:* kolb-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Sunday, August 12, 2007 10:03 AM
> *Subject:* Re: Kolb-List: Re: Suzuki 1.3 DOC 16V
>
> Gary, Have you tried an extension to get the prop a little further from
> the wing and pod? You'd have to check with the Jabiru folks to see if the
> bearings can handle the extra leverage the extension adds to all the usual
> prop forces, but if can be used, it might help reduce your noise level.
>
> Rick
>
> do not archive
>
> On 8/12/07, gary aman <gaman@att.net> wrote:
> >
> > Dan,
> > There may be others who have a jabiru mounted on their Kolb,but I for
> > one do not recommend it.It is a fine engine and runs sweetly with super
> > fuel economy easy starting hot or cold,but turning a direct drive 3000 rpm
> > propeller in a Kolb's wing wash produces more noise than you can
> > control.You will not believe the lengths I have gone to trying to
> > isolate the cabin from this din.Any geared option would serve you
> > better.Keeping the prop rpm under 2200 or 2300rpm makes a big
> > difference.A geared engine w/3.47-1 would be my choice.
> > G Aman,235hr on the Jabiru with my ears still
> > ringing
> >
> > *lndc <lndc@fnbcnet.com >* wrote:
> >
> >
> > I
> >
> > *
> >
> >
> > *
> >
> >
--
Rick Girard
"Ya'll drop on in"
takes on a whole new meaning
when you live at the airport.
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: CHT & EGT control |
Hi Rick,
"I think you fail to understand the fact that both types of
aircraft have the ability and need for changing the angle of incidence.
You do that by shifting your weight and we do it by elevator
deflection."
You're not changing the aircraft angle of incidence (fixed-wing)
by moving the elevator. I'm not sure about angle of incidence on a trike
being fixed or not. Being fixed on a pivot, I'd guess it is fixed.
"Thrust line, on airplanes, is fixed, with the exceptions noted.
On trikes, with the wing free to move in the pitch axis, it is not."
On any aircraft with a hard-mounted engine, thrust line is fixed. You
might change the relative angle (by using elevator and thus AOA - fixed
wing - or moving the trike wing angle - again AOA). The tilt-rotor V-22
Osprey is an example of variable thrust line and wing AOA combined.
You're correct about the definition of AOA, BTW.
Ed in JXN
MkII/503
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Girard
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 9:32 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: CHT & EGT control
Ed, No, angle of attack is defined, if I remember my ground school
training correctly, and I offer no guarantees, as the angle between the
wing and the relative wind, which does change with elevator movement.
Thrust line, on airplanes, is fixed, with the exceptions noted. On
trikes, with the wing free to move in the pitch axis, it is not.
I used this ability coming back from the Vintage Aircraft Fly In at
Halstead, KS, yesterday. I allowed CHT to get to 310 degrees climbing to
2500 feet, then cruised at 4800 RPM instead of the usual 4700 so I could
unload the prop and cool the heads. When the CHT's came down to 295 I
decreased the RPM to normal cruise. It doesn't sound like much change,
but it works.
Although the normal cruise speed of the trike is 42, I use 48 to 50
for approach for better control. If I'm making a power off approach, the
prop is driven to a higher RPM than the throttle is set for, and CHT
plummets as a result of less heat from burning fuel and the unloading of
the prop.
If I make a power on approach at 3700 RPM the load on the prop is
stabilized and CHT's remain stable until I chop power once I'm well into
ground effect.
Rick
PS I also learned something new yesterday. Nothing increases the
intensity of your vision scan like seeing a KC135 go under you.
Do not archive
On 8/11/07, Ed Chmielewski <edchmiel@mindspring.com> wrote:
Hi Rick,
I believe you mean Angle of Attack. Angle of Incidence is
fixed on most aircraft.
Good seeing you and Hauck at OSH>
Ed in JXN
MkII/503
Do not archive.
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard & Martha Neilsen
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 2:28 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: CHT & EGT control
Richard
Thanks for the input. I figured the EGT would go up like it does
in a 2 stroke.
As for your comment about "variable angle of incidence" not
available in a regular aircraft? I think you fail to understand the fact
that both types of aircraft have the ability and need for changing the
angle of incidence. You do that by shifting your weight and we do it by
elevator deflection.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIII
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
http://forums.matronics.com
when you live at the airport.
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: Help to fix careless mistake |
Think of it like this. It's a beautiful day, the air is clear and bouyant, a
perfect day to fly. The convective activity begins and before too long
you're having to tug the straps a little tighter because you're getting some
negative G's. Are you going to be thinking about your flying or about the
weak ass leading edges in your wings?
If you allow yourself to overlook a mistake of this magnitude, what else
will you let yourself get away with? This is the proverbial slippery slope.
If you can't bring yourself to fix this now, while it's relatively easy,
stop working on it and sell it to someone who will.
I always remember Burt Rutan's admonition in the LongEZ Plans. "Your best
work is barely good enough."
Rick
do not archive
On 8/12/07, Malcolmbru@aol.com <Malcolmbru@aol.com> wrote:
>
> If you want it dun fast and cheep just hire a poor lazy man mal
>
>
> AOL.com.
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Girard
"Ya'll drop on in"
takes on a whole new meaning
when you live at the airport.
Message 43
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| Subject: | Re: Help to fix careless mistake |
Malcolm
I have been a member of this list for better than 10 years and this is
the most stupid and irresponsible advice I have ever heard!!!
Tom
Fix the mistake. If not you or some one you love it might bite some one
else and YOU would be responsible how would you feel? Please fix it.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIC
----- Original Message -----
From: Malcolmbru@aol.com
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 8:57 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Help to fix careless mistake
just press on it will be weaker but that is not where it needs to be
the strongest I new a guy that flew into a tree crash landing into a
swamp and he fixed his leading edge with a closet rod and duck tape
then flew it bask out . malcolm michigan
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
AOL.com.
Message 44
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|
| Subject: | Re: Suzuki 1.3 DOC 16V |
Rick
Check it out yourself. The only redrive they sell is the Valley drive
which I own. They sell a direct "rear drive" and a cheap drive set up
but they are still direct drive. The guy that made Big Lars redrive made
a flywheel chain drive and had previously made a belt arrangement that
drove off the flywheel end that had a shaft to a prop flange on the
pulley end. Also there is a web site that sells a gear redrive made in
Australia for the VW but no one here is flying one. Is it real? I go
with what I know works.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIC
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Girard
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 10:14 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Suzuki 1.3 DOC 16V
Gary, Rick, all, Check out Great Plains Aircraft, they have redrives
for both ends of the VW.
http://www.greatplainsas.com/gpasproducts.html
Rick
do not archive
On 8/12/07, gary aman <gaman@att.net> wrote:
Just thought on a pusher,the pointy end of the engine would be
forward and the bell housing mounting points make a solid attach for
redrive system,just a thought.
GAman
Richard & Martha Neilsen < NeilsenRM@comcast.net> wrote:
Gary
I'm very happy with the current setup which drives the prop off
the pulley end of the VW crank. It would seem that it would be better to
drive the prop off the flywheel end but it isn't done very often. The
current setup is smooth and works so well that I would wouldn't fix it.
I will leave it so some one else to sort out a redrive on the flywheel
end assuming that would really be better. I might switch to a gear drive
if it was light and smooth enough. but I would need proof it is better.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIC
----- Original Message -----
From: gary aman
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 4:29 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Suzuki 1.3 DOC 16V
I believe you have the best of both worlds in a rock solid
engine and a slow turning large disc .You and they should be very happy
together.Have they found a way to drive off of the big end of the shaft?
I've built and raced VW s back in the 70's and have high regard for
them.
Richard & Martha Neilsen <NeilsenRM@comcast.net> wrote:
Rick
It isn't a fluke. High RPM direct drive engines on Kolbs just
don't perform very well. You can add extensions which I did with my
direct drive VW to cut noise or add power but it really didn't help
anything. John W had a Jabiru and New Kolb tried them for a while but
they don't recommend them any more. In England where the 912 hasn't been
certified they don't have a choice. The horsepower to weight figure
sounds great but it is thrust that moves airplanes and high RPM props
just don't produce thrust as efficiently as low RPM props. I hear people
say that it works better on higher speed airplanes which maybe true but
world war II airplanes used reduction drives on V12s and radial engines.
I don't consider WWII ai rcraft slow so there must have been some
advantage for them too.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Girard
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 10:03 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Suzuki 1.3 DOC 16V
Gary, Have you tried an extension to get the prop a little
further from the wing and pod? You'd have to check with the Jabiru folks
to see if the bearings can handle the extra leverage the extension adds
to all the usual prop forces, but if can be used, it might help reduce
your noise level.
Rick
do not archive
On 8/12/07, gary aman < gaman@att.net> wrote:
Dan,
There may be others who have a jabiru mounted on their
Kolb,but I for one do not recommend it.It is a fine engine and runs
sweetly with super fuel economy easy starting hot or cold,but turning a
direct drive 3000 rpm propeller in a Kolb's wing wash produces more
noise than you can control.You will not believe the lengths I have gone
to trying to isolate the cabin from this din.Any geared option would
serve you better.Keeping the prop rpm under 2200 or 2300rpm makes a big
difference.A geared engine w/3.47-1 would be my choice.
G Aman,235hr on the Jabiru with my
ears still ringing
lndc <lndc@fnbcnet.com > wrote:
I
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
http://forums.matronics.com
-- Rick Girard"Ya'll drop on in"takes on a whole new meaningwhen you
live at the airport.
Message 45
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|
| Subject: | Re: Help to fix careless mistake |
In a message dated 8/12/2007 11:20:47 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
NeilsenRM@comcast.net writes:
Malcolm
I have been a member of this list for better than 10 years and this is the
most stupid and irresponsible advice I have ever heard!!!
Tom
Fix the mistake. If not you or some one you love it might bite some one else
and YOU would be responsible how would you feel? Please fix it.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIC
----- Original Message -----
From: _Malcolmbru@aol.com_ (mailto:Malcolmbru@aol.com)
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 8:57 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Help to fix careless mistake
just press on it will be weaker but that is not where it needs to be the
strongest I new a guy that flew into a tree crash landing into a swamp and he
fixed his leading edge with a closet rod and duck tape then flew it bask out
. malcolm michigan
gee
yup.....yup....... that's purdy stupid, I'd say.....yup
geeez.....why do I feel like Mortimer Snerd
George Randolph
Firestar driver from the Villages, Fl
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
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| Subject: | Re: FS 447 Good News / Bad News |
Sorry to hear about your incident.
Sounds like a classic case of misjudging the wind gradient.
For the benefit of those who don't know what that is here is an explanation.
Wind gradient is the concept of slower moving air as you get lower due to landscape
trees etc.
If you are flying at 40 mph into a 15mph head wind on landing approach at 500'
agl and you get down close to the ground where the wind speed is say 5mph what
is your airspeed now?????
If you think its 30mph your right...is your airplane still flying at this airspeed????
...and how quick did that wind speed change?
To fast for you to do anything about it!!!!
A rule of thumb is to fly approach at the stall speed+50% plus 1/2 the wind speed.
So if you stall at 30mph then fly approach into a 20mph wind at
30+15+10=55mph.
The round out is where all your speed can decay as you hold it off for a perfect
low energy landing.
Just some info to reflect on.
Sure beats fixing stuff all winter...
Ray
--------
Ray
Riverside County, CA
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| Subject: | Re: Help to fix careless mistake |
If you want to design your own wing fine, be a test pilot and let us know how long
the weaker tube lasts over years of flexing and G-Loading.
If you want to enjoy flying your aircraft as designed and benefit from all the
others who have gone before you and will let us all know if something needs fixing
and when, then build it as designed.
You know the old saying about aircraft design..."Changing 1 thing changes everything"
I'd say that the price of 2 new tubes and some work is the ONLY option unless you
know aircraft design and can run your tubes and new wing design through a
strength and dynamic loading analysis to verify its new lower G-loading limits.
Also don't foget a physical proof loading as well to verify the results.
I'd say that redesigning the wing is a LOT more work than fixing what you stated
yourself is a MISTAKE!!!
Ultimately its YOUR butt in the seat....choose wisely as aviation is unforgiving
of mistakes.
--------
Ray
Riverside County, CA
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| Subject: | Re: Gainin new outlook |
Don't you guys know?
Its an FAA administrator checking out how the aviation community
handles people wanting to fly Ultralights without a pilots license.
That way they can figure out where there is some more money to be made and start
increasing fees in those areas too.....[Laughing]
--------
Ray
Riverside County, CA
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