---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 09/27/07: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:06 AM - Re: Space for radio mounting (pat ladd) 2. 08:23 AM - Space for radio mounting (boyd) 3. 08:47 AM - Re: Gap Seal (JetPilot) 4. 09:06 AM - Re: Space for radio mounting (herbgh@juno.com) 5. 09:19 AM - Re: Gap Seal (R. Hankins) 6. 09:52 AM - Re: Re: Gap Seal (herbgh@juno.com) 7. 10:11 AM - Re: Re: Gap Seal (Richard Pike) 8. 10:18 AM - Re: Space for radio mounting (Richard Pike) 9. 11:07 AM - Re: Re: Gap Seal (Richard Girard) 10. 11:23 AM - Re: Space for radio mounting (gary aman) 11. 12:02 PM - Re: Space for radio mounting (John Codd) 12. 01:43 PM - Re: Gap Seal (olendorf) 13. 02:07 PM - Gap Seal (Jimmy) 14. 07:36 PM - N177RM became an aircraft today! (ropermike) 15. 07:50 PM - Re: Kolb MKII Fatality (JetPilot) 16. 08:42 PM - Kolb Twinstar Should I get it? (grantr) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:06:48 AM PST US From: "pat ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Space for radio mounting Hi Bill, thanks for taking the trouble but unfortunately I have the central stick set up. I should have mentioned that, I suppose. thanks anyway Pat ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:23:28 AM PST US From: "boyd" Subject: Kolb-List: Space for radio mounting At 08:35 PM 9/26/2007, LEE CREECH wrote: >Can anyone offer any suggestions as to what headsets work best (in a Kolb >Firestar context) with an Icom radio? I'm replacing my old Yaesu radio >which went kaput, but now find that my old Lightspeed Solo headset (which >I really like, for its quietness) won't work with the new Icom A6 radio! Lee, you probably need a mike amplifier, along with whatever plug adapters are necessary. I'm pretty sure (gonna try it tomorrow if I don't go flying) that my Comtronics helmet won't work with my new A24 (same as the A6 but with VOR), but an electronics guru friend sketched up a simple amp circuit to boost the helmet mike to the signal level the A6/A24 is expecting. If it works I'll make it available. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the radio I am using... sporties A300 I had to decrease the mike gain to keep the background noise to a minimum. Boyd ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:47:14 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Gap Seal From: "JetPilot" This thread was a lot of great information on gap seals, I would have expected some decrease in performance, but was surprised how bad it was. Has anyone ever flown a MK III Xtra without the gap seal ??? Given what I have read, I would fly without the gap seal, but it would be nice to know. I would think that the 912-S would have enough power fly fine without it, but it wont be me testing that theory :) Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136781#136781 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:06:27 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Space for radio mounting From: herbgh@juno.com Old Frugal Herb had a radio like that...100 dollar amp was needed....So---I unhooked the internal mike and brought a couple of shielded wires out of the case and used the regular non amplified mike. By the way...bro Pike... how did the 30 dollar noise reduction , wally world head set work? No reason why it should not.. I am waiting for them to go on sale! :-) Herb On Thu, 27 Sep 2007 09:23:12 -0600 "boyd" writes: > > At 08:35 PM 9/26/2007, LEE CREECH wrote: > >Can anyone offer any suggestions as to what headsets work best (in > a Kolb > >Firestar context) with an Icom radio? I'm replacing my old Yaesu > radio > >which went kaput, but now find that my old Lightspeed Solo headset > (which > >I really like, for its quietness) won't work with the new Icom A6 > radio! > > Lee, you probably need a mike amplifier, along with whatever plug > adapters > are necessary. I'm pretty sure (gonna try it tomorrow if I don't go > > flying) that my Comtronics helmet won't work with my new A24 (same > as the > A6 but with VOR), but an electronics guru friend sketched up a > simple amp > circuit to boost the helmet mike to the signal level the A6/A24 is > expecting. If it works I'll make it available. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > With the radio I am using... sporties A300 I had to decrease > the mike > gain to keep the background noise to a minimum. > > Boyd > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:19:33 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Gap Seal From: "R. Hankins" Here is my gap seal eaxperience: I began with 1/8 clear vinyl attached with 2" self-adhesive velcro. I do not know if this velcro had vinyl compatible adhesive. It worked well for 19hrs. I parked the plane in the summer sun for a little too long, and the velcro on the gap seal itself oozed out of position from the heat. I ordered an actual cloth seal from TNK after that. It lasted for two years and 100hrs of flying. This was the lightweight nylon. At 119 hrs, I removed the velcro from the wings and replaced it with non-self-adhesive velcro glued on with poly-tac. I made sure the velcro on the wings extends nearly a foot past the ends of the seal top and bottom. I ordered another gap seal from TNK to replace the first and was pleasantly surprised to find it made of different material. The current cloth seal is made from heavy duty sail material (the sailboat variety) and is tough as nails. I have had several homebuilders ask about sources for this cloth because of its quality. I now have over 300 hrs on this last gap seal with no maintenance needed. I fold every time I fly. I believe the key to long lasting velcro is using poly-tack to glue it to the wings and making sure the ends extend well past the gap-seal. I would extend it past the seal at least a foot on the bottom of the wing and just run the velcro all the way to the trailing edge on the top of the wing. Hope this helps... -------- Roger in Oregon 1992 KXP 503 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136792#136792 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:52:30 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Gap Seal From: herbgh@juno.com Roger When you say "run all the way to the trailing edge on the top" ; I think you have hit on the solution.. I will give it a try... I tried using poly tac cement as a repair and did not have much luck...Likely the reason is in the first sentence..My wing root attached velcro stopped a foot and a half short of the trailing edge..Herb On Thu, 27 Sep 2007 09:18:57 -0700 "R. Hankins" writes: > > > Here is my gap seal eaxperience: > I began with 1/8 clear vinyl attached with 2" self-adhesive velcro. > I do not know if this velcro had vinyl compatible adhesive. It > worked well for 19hrs. I parked the plane in the summer sun for a > little too long, and the velcro on the gap seal itself oozed out of > position from the heat. > > I ordered an actual cloth seal from TNK after that. It lasted for > two years and 100hrs of flying. This was the lightweight nylon. > > At 119 hrs, I removed the velcro from the wings and replaced it with > non-self-adhesive velcro glued on with poly-tac. I made sure the > velcro on the wings extends nearly a foot past the ends of the seal > top and bottom. > I ordered another gap seal from TNK to replace the first and was > pleasantly surprised to find it made of different material. The > current cloth seal is made from heavy duty sail material (the > sailboat variety) and is tough as nails. I have had several > homebuilders ask about sources for this cloth because of its > quality. > I now have over 300 hrs on this last gap seal with no maintenance > needed. I fold every time I fly. I believe the key to long lasting > velcro is using poly-tack to glue it to the wings and making sure > the ends extend well past the gap-seal. I would extend it past the > seal at least a foot on the bottom of the wing and just run the > velcro all the way to the trailing edge on the top of the wing. > > Hope this helps... > > -------- > Roger in Oregon > 1992 KXP 503 > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136792#136792 > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:11:45 AM PST US From: "Richard Pike" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Gap Seal Or you can sew it on. If your velcro is over a rib or structural member, glue it on and then sew it also, wrapping your "thread" around the structural member and the velcro or going through the velcro. The last time I sewed velcro on, I used safety wire. Stainless steel wire resists U/V real well... Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) ----- Original Message ----- From: "R. Hankins" Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 12:18 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Gap Seal I believe the key to long lasting velcro is using poly-tack to glue it to the wings and making sure the ends extend well past the gap-seal. I would extend it past the seal at least a foot on the bottom of the wing and just run the velcro all the way to the trailing edge on the top of the wing. > > Hope this helps... > > -------- > Roger in Oregon > 1992 KXP 503 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136792#136792 > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:18:42 AM PST US From: "Richard Pike" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Space for radio mounting Funny you should ask, I just got done modifying the jack box in the MKIII so I can listen to both VHF & the mp3 player on the trip to Chestnut Knolls Saturday. It works real well, cuts the noise a lot and lets you hear ATC or your mp3 player as well. A little extra hassle putting in the earbuds before you put the headsets on, but I'm used to it, have been using the same noise canceling gizmo w/earbuds for several months now when motorcycle riding, and I just take it for granted. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 12:02 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Space for radio mounting > > Old Frugal Herb had a radio like that...100 dollar amp was > needed....So---I unhooked the internal mike and brought a couple of > shielded wires out of the case and used the regular non amplified mike. > > By the way...bro Pike... how did the 30 dollar noise reduction , wally > world head set work? No reason why it should not.. > > I am waiting for them to go on sale! :-) Herb > > > On Thu, 27 Sep 2007 09:23:12 -0600 "boyd" writes: >> >> At 08:35 PM 9/26/2007, LEE CREECH wrote: >> >Can anyone offer any suggestions as to what headsets work best (in >> a Kolb >> >Firestar context) with an Icom radio? I'm replacing my old Yaesu >> radio >> >which went kaput, but now find that my old Lightspeed Solo headset >> (which >> >I really like, for its quietness) won't work with the new Icom A6 >> radio! >> >> Lee, you probably need a mike amplifier, along with whatever plug >> adapters >> are necessary. I'm pretty sure (gonna try it tomorrow if I don't go >> >> flying) that my Comtronics helmet won't work with my new A24 (same >> as the >> A6 but with VOR), but an electronics guru friend sketched up a >> simple amp >> circuit to boost the helmet mike to the signal level the A6/A24 is >> expecting. If it works I'll make it available. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> With the radio I am using... sporties A300 I had to decrease >> the mike >> gain to keep the background noise to a minimum. >> >> Boyd >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:07:40 AM PST US From: "Richard Girard" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Gap Seal Mike, it's not about horsepower, it's about bad aerodynamics. This is particularly true Go to the NACA archives and do some research on the subject (not the easiest thing to do, I admit, but it can be done). This is very old news and here we are in the 21st century discussing what was already researched by the second decade of the 20th. Ask yourself, and do a little research on the subject, how many aircraft are manufactured today, and in the last 50 years for that matter, without gap seals? Disregard ultralights which were by and large built 5% by innovators like Homer and 95% by rip off artists, IMHO. Rick On 9/27/07, JetPilot wrote: > > > This thread was a lot of great information on gap seals, I would have > expected some decrease in performance, but was surprised how bad it > was. Has anyone ever flown a MK III Xtra without the gap seal ??? Given > what I have read, I would fly without the gap seal, but it would be nice to > know. I would think that the 912-S would have enough power fly fine without > it, but it wont be me testing that theory :) > > Mike > > -------- > "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have > !!! > > Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136781#136781 > > -- Rick Girard "Ya'll drop on in" takes on a whole new meaning when you live at the airport. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:23:32 AM PST US From: gary aman Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Space for radio mounting Pat, I'm not familiar with your aircraft but on my mark 3c I mounted the icom on the back of the windshield at the top by the steel U shaped frame.I bent a 2" wide 10" long piece of lexan almost double, so it would stand on a table in the shape of the letter A,then slipped it over the steel frame one leg flat on the windshield face,the other hanging down the inside not quite parallel to the back of the windshield.Cut out a small rectangle to clear the back of that flat loop on the radio battery and velcroed the radio to the lexan.Attached the A frame lexan to the frame with 3 rivits,ran the wires around the frame and down past the flap handle support to the hot box .I have a fiber glass fairing between the windshield and wing leading edge so it may be different on yours. pat ladd wrote: Hi Bill, thanks for taking the trouble but unfortunately I have the central stick set up. I should have mentioned that, I suppose. thanks anyway Pat ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:02:52 PM PST US From: "John Codd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Space for radio mounting Hi Pat, I went down to Sandtoft Airfield today to do the first 25hr service/oil change etc on the 2200 Jabiru on my Mk3 Extra, as promised I took some photos of the radio/gps setup in my plane, as you will see the Icom Ic-A24E radio is attached to the left hand side of the instrument pod, this is well out of the way when getting in and out and also does not interfere when flying, the main support is a mobile phone mounting on an 8"flexible which has a suction cup for mounting to the console, additional support for the top end of the mount is in the form of a tie wrap attaching the top end of the flexible to the small metal plate on the left of the instrument pod (just slacken the two fixing screws a touch and thread the tie wrap through) tie wrap all cables and leads to the flexible support, works a treat, firm support for the radio and easily accessible, as for your previous enquiry regarding antennas, the Lynx short flexible VHF antenna works fine although we are getting better results with an antenna from Montreal, Canada, the Miracle Whip Antenna, this is a 1/2 wave diapole antenna against the Lynx's 1/4 wave, it certainly produces superior clearer reception, the manufacturers web site is www.miracleantenna.com the mount for the radio was bought from e-bay, they still have some if you're interested in their e-bay shop at tradehunter.co.uk, current e-bay item number is 5810187139, I know that you have your gps mounted on the top of your instrument pod, but just for interest I use an HP Ipaq with moving maps for gps with the small gps receiver mounted on the top of the pod and the Ipaq mounted in a flexible mount similar to the radio attached to the top of the windscreen so that the gps is at eye level and at the correct distance for the reading part of my specs, it may not suit all but it all works for me, I heard today from Mike Moulai that you have now received your permit to test from the PFA with test flights hopefully scheduled for next week, hope all goes well and you are back in the air soon. if you need to contact me off list my e-mail address is j.codd@btopenworld.com. ----- Original Message ----- From: John Hauck To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 4:20 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Space for radio mounting Patrick: John can attach them to a post to the Kolb List and we can all benefit from the photos. john h mkIII ----- Original Message ----- From: pat ladd To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 10:06 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Space for radio mounting post me your e-mail address and I'll send you a couple of photos.>> Sorry John, I missed that bit. Here it is pj.ladd@btinternet.co.uk href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Kolb-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:43:03 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Gap Seal From: "olendorf" I few comment regarding the gap seals. 1. I think everyone is mostly right. Some think it flies fine without a gap seal and some think it hardly flies. In my experience it barely flies and I will never do it again. However I think the issue may be due to the fact that everyone has a different windshield arrangement. With the shorty windshield the air comes up right through the bottom of the wing. With a full windshield the air tends to go over the wing more. Maybe this is why we see the differing opinions. 2. The self stick velcro barely sticks. I used Pliobond which is contact cement for polytone. It didn't work as well as I would have liked so I used regular contact cement and that works great. 3. I would devise some method of mechanically attaching the ends of the velcro on the gap seal to the wing. I put small aluminum tubes on my wing rib sticking out about 3/4". Then I put the gap seal over the tubes. On top of that I put a washer and a safety pin. I used the same method when I changed over to the lexan gap seal I have now. p.s. I really like this new spell checker Matt added to the forum. -------- Scott Olendorf Original Firestar, Rotax 447, Powerfin prop Schenectady, NY http://KolbFirestar.googlepages.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136861#136861 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:07:03 PM PST US From: "Jimmy" Subject: Kolb-List: Gap Seal I have a Firefly with a cloth gap seal. One option I have not read about is that mine has a zipper sewed down the middle of the seal. The cloth is held on the edges with Velcro. I have 330 hours on it now with little wear. I do not fold the wings and the planer is in a hanger. Anyone wanting a picture contact me off list. Jimmy Hankinson 912-863-7384 Firefly #035, (N6007L) JYL (Sylvania, Ga.) Pegasus Field (Home) 2000 Feet X 100 Feet- Grass Rocky Ford, Georgia Do Not Archive Pegasus Field (Home) 2000 Feet X 100 Feet- Grass Rocky Ford, Georgia Do Not Archive -- ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:36:57 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: N177RM became an aircraft today! From: "ropermike" I mailed my paperwork in to the FAA to register my N177RM as E-LSA on 8-15-07. My Mk ll completed the flight worthy inspection today, 9-27-07. I have 5 hrs to fly off.......My DAR didn't like my prop bolts, didn't have enough threads showing. He said my ELT remote, needed the battery expiration date labeled on it even though I had it listed in my logbook. He wanted me to safety wire my carb bowl clips to the engine to keep them from coming lose until I told him it was part of my preflight to check for water in bowls and would have to rewire them every time, then he said not to worry about it since I checked the clips every time I flew...... He was very thorough, used flashlight and mirror, but was helpful as he had owned and flew planes like this before. Generally it was a good experience.....He told me the big rush to certify ELSA's the FAA had anticipated was not happening. Ive got a feeling used parts might be a little cheaper next year!....I know I feel so much better knowing Big Brother will be watching me now!.....All in all, Im glad I got off my lazy butt and got it done......Mike -------- The next best thing to playing and winning is playing and losing!...Mike Hillger Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136920#136920 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/p9260039_158.jpg ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:50:42 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb MKII Fatality From: "JetPilot" I don't believe that water in the air cleaner from a rain shower earlier in the day would have caused the 503 engine to run rough. I have flown my MK III through rain, and no problem with the filters getting wet, even sucking water inside them. Even if the filters were totally soaked with water, any water would have been very well sucked out of them before the airplane even broke ground at full throttle. Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136922#136922 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:42:06 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb Twinstar Should I get it? From: "grantr" A guy has a 1987 model kolb twinstar for sale it is a 2 seat side by side with a 503 dcdi with 101 hours with a new culver prop , NEW BRS 5, windshield, fuel tank, lines,& pump also has had all control cables and A/N hardware replaced read to fly. He has flown about 12 hours in the past month. It has no brakes and is pullstart has N# but needs inspected to get LSA finished . He bought the plane from the original owner. Kit was bought in 1987 and finished in 1989. Unknown hours on airframe but second engine is at 101 hours. No corrosion ever found, fuselage was blasted and epoxy painted in May 2007. No damage history known. Original fabric stits process, few patches due to minor holes, mostly from original owner folding wings by himself. He is asking $7500 Its about a 650 miles trip one way so if i go I intend to buy not look! What do you guys think? Is the twin star a good built/ flying airplane? I am a tad concerned over the age of the plane. How about the fabric its 20 years old. Would you recommend replacing the fabric? How much would it cost to recover the wing and tail? Does the new kolb support parts for this airplane? Does anyone have a spec sheet for this plane? How about the ELSA? Since he has the N number will I have plenty of time to finish the registration? Thanks, Grant Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136930#136930 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.