Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:15 AM - Re: Grand Vortex Generator Challenge (Dave Bigelow)
2. 03:21 AM - Homecoming07 (tc1917)
3. 04:11 AM - Re: Movies from TNK Homecoming (icrashrc)
4. 04:49 AM - TNK Homecoming & my first Kolb (Jimmy Young)
5. 05:38 AM - Re: Re: Grand Vortex Generator Challenge (robert bean)
6. 08:39 AM - Re: Grand Vortex Generator Challenge (JetPilot)
7. 11:40 AM - Re: Re: Grand Vortex Generator Challenge (N27SB@aol.com)
8. 12:24 PM - Re: Grand Vortex Generator Challenge (JetPilot)
9. 01:11 PM - Re: Re: Grand Vortex Generator Challenge (Jeremy Casey)
10. 01:17 PM - Re: Grand Vortex Generator Challenge (jb92563)
11. 01:48 PM - Re: And then there were nine (jb92563)
12. 01:51 PM - Re: TNK Homecoming & my first Kolb (jb92563)
13. 03:17 PM - Re: Re: Grand Vortex Generator Challenge (John Hauck)
14. 03:21 PM - Re: Re: TNK Homecoming & my first Kolb (John Hauck)
15. 07:11 PM - Re: Re: Grand Vortex Generator Challenge (N27SB@aol.com)
16. 07:37 PM - Re: Grand Vortex Generator Challenge (JetPilot)
17. 07:44 PM - Re: TNK Homecoming & my first Kolb (JetPilot)
18. 08:10 PM - Re: Kolb Mark III with 912ULS weights and speeds (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
19. 08:44 PM - Re: TNK Homecoming & my first Kolb (DAquaNut@aol.com)
20. 08:59 PM - Re: Grand Vortex Generator Challenge (jb92563)
21. 09:10 PM - Re: TNK Homecoming & my first Kolb (jb92563)
22. 09:15 PM - Re: TNK Homecoming & my first Kolb (Robert Laird)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Grand Vortex Generator Challenge |
Only really valid way to test the merits of VG's is before and after on the same
plane.
Before: My FSII started getting mushy feeling below 40 mph, and pretty much quit
flying at 35. The stall was mushy and very forgiving without any tendency
to fall off on a wing, and aileron control was good throughout. On landing, there
was not very much cushion effect from ground effect - no float.
After: Control is firm and rock-solid right down to stall break at 30 mph. Stall
is abrupt and rudder is more effective than aileron keeping the wings level.
During landing flare, the plane floats in ground effect more than without
the VG's. If the air is reasonably smooth, I can comfortably fly final at 45
mph indicated - had to use 50 mph without the VG's
I like the VG's and believe they are a great help in getting into short tight fields.
My recommendation for a new Kolb pilot is to get 25-50 hours without the
VG's in your plane, and then install them. Bet you won't take them off - ever!
The comments about imagination and pitot/static position error don't fly. The
before and after speeds cross check with my GPS.
--------
Dave Bigelow
Kamuela, Hawaii
FS2, HKS 700E
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Just as I promised, I posted most all of the photos I took at the Homecoming
on my web site. Address is:
http://www.homestead.com/southernflyers/
or
http://www.homestead.com/southernflyers/Homecoming07.html
Hope you all enjoy. Ted & Beverly Cowan, Alabama
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Movies from TNK Homecoming |
Here's a short clip of the 1/2 VW powered Firestar.
--------
Scott
www.ill-EagleAviation.com
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137798#137798
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/firestar_101.wmv
Message 4
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| Subject: | TNK Homecoming & my first Kolb |
Mission accomplished. As a result of making the trip to Kolb
Headquarters, I got to see more Kolbs in one day than I'll probably see
in year or more. After getting to sit in a few FS II's and speaking with
their owners and input from Travis at Kolb, I left early Saturday
morning to catch a flight to South Carolina where I looked at and later
that day bought my first plane, a FS II.
Man, I am really looking forward to completing my flight training and
getting this lady home where I can take her for a ride. Thanks for all
the help and I hope to see yall soon at a fly-in somewhere.
Jimmy Young
Houston
FS II N7043P
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| Subject: | Re: Grand Vortex Generator Challenge |
Fly slower??? How slow do you NEED to fly? It took me 3 years to
even pull down the flap handle one notch.
As John needles me, mine is plenty slow right now :)
Have to admit though, the flaps sure do cut down on the number of
bumps I have to withstand before the
wheels leave the ground.
In the rare event that I WASH my wings I prefer the lovely smooth
topside just the way it is.
Anyway, I would have enjoyed witnessing the shennanigans. A flour
bombing contest can be fun too
but maybe would have to be done carefully in a pusher?
BB, low and slow
do not archive
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Grand Vortex Generator Challenge |
slyck(at)frontiernet.net wrote:
> Fly slower??? How slow do you NEED to fly? It took me 3 years to
> even pull down the flap handle one notch.
> :) :) :)
The ability to fly slow in a Kolb is a HUGE safety factor. If my engine ever
quits, and I am going to be landing in one of those plowed fields, or tall beans,
or whatever is in there, having the mains touch down at 30 MPH instead of
40 MPH could make all the difference in the world as to how much damage I do to
the plane, and weather I get hurt or not.
Having the ability to fly 10 MPH slower around the pattern, and 10 MPH slower on
final again is a HUGE safete factor. Not getting into that stall spin accident
until the plane is 10 MPH slower could make the difference between it ever
happening or not.
On my MK III, my indicated stall changed by a full 10 MPH, my touchdown speed decreased
by 10 MPH, my minimum comfortable approach speed went from 60 to 50 MPH.
The control in the slow speed range feels much better, no mushy feeling at
all. All this with no downside, I will never take them off. Exactly where
to install VG's are expained very well in the directions. I put my VG's on with
double sided 3M automobile trim tape from advance auto so I could take them
off if I did not like them. The size, angle, and placement of VG's is critical.
I would suggest buying the ones we know will work for 100 bucks, rather
than spending days fabricating ones that may or may not work well.
WWW.LANDSHORTER.COM
Its the best 100 bucks you will ever spend on your Kolb.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137848#137848
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| Subject: | Re: Grand Vortex Generator Challenge |
In a message dated 10/3/2007 11:40:26 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
orcabonita@hotmail.com writes:
Having the ability to fly 10 MPH slower around the pattern, and 10 MPH
slower on final again is a HUGE safete factor. Not getting into that stall
spin
accident until the plane is 10 MPH slower could make the difference between
it ever happening or not.
On my MK III, my indicated stall changed by a full 10 MPH, my touchdown
speed decreased by 10 MPH, my minimum comfortable approach speed went from 60
to
50 MPH.
Mike, At the Homecoming I watched the 1/2 VW Firestar Pilot fly his pattern
and approach at minimum airspeed and nose high attitude. The first time was
scary, I thought he stalled it at 80 feet.
Have you considered that all other things aside, Potential Kinetic energy is
a function of airspeed and altitude and that while flying your approach at
minimum airspeed you are giving both of them away at the same time? Why not
keep something in the Bank for that unexpected gust of air or the "Kolb Quit"
Demon out there?
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Grand Vortex Generator Challenge |
You are so right Steve, I do not make a habbit out of flying slow approaches.
I was merely reporting what I have tested and could do. I typically fly my approaches
power clear back to idle stop, 65-70 MPH diving like a bat out of hell
:)
But it is very nice to know, if I something unexpected ever happens, or if I just
ever screw up my flying that bad, the grim reaper wont come knocking for another
10 MPH. The slower the plane can fly and land, it gives me a lot more room
for error, and the safer I am.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137902#137902
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| Subject: | Re: Grand Vortex Generator Challenge |
I know it is difficult for VG'ers, but over the years and hours, I have
not found a requirement for VGs on Homer's airplanes.
Thanks for your attention,
john h
<SNIP>
John,
Never said they were "required" on a Kolb or any other plane for that
matter. Their benefits are well known and understood.nothing
"difficult" to understand.They are standard performance enhancements to
serious Supercubs, Huskys, etc. .was nothing "WRONG" with those planes
before.they just perform better with them.
Did Homer design our wonderful planes with a "requirement" for a BRS? I
don't think so, yet many of Homer's wonderfully designed airplanes still
wear them as standard equipment (including yours).what's wrong with
another layer of safety equipment? Especially one that weighs next to
nothing, cost next to nothing, and you can enjoy the benefits of it year
round? You never have to send it back in for repack either.
John, you are well respected in the Kolb clan and rightfully so. You
have modified and "improved" the Kolb aircraft you have played with more
than probably any other half dozen people. You developed longer and
stronger gear legs, bigger fuel tanks, wing reinforcements, more comfy
seats, dual controls in the M3's, and heaven only knows what else. Why
you refuse to stick a few little (removeable) plastic wedges on your
plane and try them out before deciding they are not "required" or
possibly a safety benefit is beyond me.
Jeremy "having no difficulty" Casey
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Grand Vortex Generator Challenge |
Could those flaps momentarily deploy due to airloads or bumping the lever?
OK next year some one is going to install REAL high lift low speed devices like
leading edge Slats right?
Kolb Stork!!!! ???? [Wink]
--------
Ray
Riverside County, CA
Do Not Archive
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| Subject: | Re: And then there were nine |
I thought you were talking about the guests at the TNK Homecoming.
Maybe some of them are Guniea's ?..... [Laughing]
--------
Ray
Riverside County, CA
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| Subject: | Re: TNK Homecoming & my first Kolb |
Hey congrats on your joining the ranks.
You certainly picked the best way to get it done!
Now if only we could get enough of a west coast Kolb presence to have a Kolb shindig
out here to.
--------
Ray
Riverside County, CA
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| Subject: | Re: Grand Vortex Generator Challenge |
> OK next year some one is going to install REAL high lift low speed devices
> like leading edge Slats right?
>
> Kolb Stork!!!! ???? [Wink]
>
> --------
> Ray
Ray:
For what?
john h
mkIII
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: TNK Homecoming & my first Kolb |
> Now if only we could get enough of a west coast Kolb presence to have a
Kolb shindig out here to.
>
> --------
> Ray
Ray:
Where have you been the last five years? We have had the
Unplanned/Unorganized Kolb Flyin, Monument Valley, UT, 450 sm, by air, from
the Riverside County Courthouse. Stay awake now. We will probably have
another the third weekend of May 2008.
john h
mkIII
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| Subject: | Re: Grand Vortex Generator Challenge |
In a message dated 10/3/2007 3:24:40 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
orcabonita@hotmail.com writes:
I typically fly my approaches power clear back to idle stop, 65-70 MPH
diving like a bat out of hell :)
Glad to hear that Mike, sounds like you are on the ball. Coming from a high
inertia low drag aircraft to a low inertia high drag aircraft was a big
adjustment for me.
Steve B
Firefly 007/Floats
do not archive
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| Subject: | Re: Grand Vortex Generator Challenge |
If you saw what was on the approach end of the runway, I have a choice of power
lines, various chain link fences, or a bunch of Palm trees in the nursery [Shocked]
Engines like to quit at idle sometimes, so I try to pull the power
off with the idea that it might not come back.
I did not know you were flying other airplanes Steve, what were you flying before
the Kolb ?
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137986#137986
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| Subject: | Re: TNK Homecoming & my first Kolb |
jdy100(at)comcast.net wrote:
>
> Man, I am really looking forward to completing my flight training and getting
this lady home where I can take her for a ride. Thanks for all the help and
I hope to see yall soon at a fly-in somewhere.
>
> Jimmy Young
> Houston
> FS II N7043P
Its as sweet as you think its gonig to be. I flew Cessnas and other things for
years where you had to twist your nick to look out some porthole to see outside.
The first time I got into my Mark III and could scan the entire pattern
for traffic, see up and see down, and the entire panorama of the horizon left
to right it was nothing short of awesome. Congratulations, you are going to
have a great time with your Kolb.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=137987#137987
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb Mark III with 912ULS weights and speeds |
Dan
I haven't seen a response to your questions. The real answer is they are
different on every airplane. Remember these aren't production airplanes.
The weight for example will vary for the same model and engine by 150
lbs. or more. You need to weigh your own plane and do the weight and
balance calculations.The only way to get the flying speeds is to fly it.
If your DAR doesn't understand this get another one fast.
Sorry
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIC
----- Original Message -----
From: DBforfun@aol.com
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 11:13 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb Mark III with 912ULS weights and speeds
I am in the process of licensing my Kolb LSA and removing the 2 stroke
and installing a new 912ULS.
For those running a 100 hp on a Mark III what are you using for gross
weight?
What is your empty weight?
What are your flying speeds?
cruise?
stall?
landing approach?
VX?
VY?
Thanks in advance for all your help.
Dan
t
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Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: TNK Homecoming & my first Kolb |
In a message dated 10/3/2007 6:50:08 A.M. Central Standard Time,
jdy100@comcast.net writes:
Man, I am really looking forward to completing my flight training and
getting this lady home where I can take her for a ride. Thanks for all the help
and
I hope to see yall soon at a fly-in somewhere.
Jimmy Young
Houston
FS II N7043P
Is that Houston Texas?
Ed (FF# 62) In Houston
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Grand Vortex Generator Challenge |
For fun of course .....isnt that what this is all about?
--------
Ray
Riverside County, CA
Do Not Archive
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| Subject: | Re: TNK Homecoming & my first Kolb |
John:
I just joined the Kolb list several months ago so I must have just missed it.
>From the Riverside Courthouse......wow.....
I might even be ready for a May 2008 flight If I hurry along with my Ultrastar.....cool....glad
I mentioned it!
I might be a tad slow though to keep up in my Ultrastar but even a leg or two would
be fun.
--------
Ray
Riverside County, CA
Do Not Archive
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| Subject: | Re: TNK Homecoming & my first Kolb |
Ed --
Yup, Jimmy's in Houston. He's going to borrow my trailer to retrieve his
FSII.
-- Robert
On 10/3/07, DAquaNut@aol.com <DAquaNut@aol.com> wrote:
>
> In a message dated 10/3/2007 6:50:08 A.M. Central Standard Time,
> jdy100@comcast.net writes:
>
> Man, I am really looking forward to completing my flight training and
> getting this lady home where I can take her for a ride. Thanks for all the
> help and I hope to see yall soon at a fly-in somewhere.
>
> Jimmy Young
> Houston
> FS II N7043P
>
> Is that Houston Texas?
>
> Ed (FF# 62) In Houston
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Make AOL Your Homepage.
>
> *
>
>
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>
>
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