---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 10/10/07: 44 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:05 AM - Re: Wing Bracing (ElleryWeld@aol.com) 2. 05:55 AM - Re: Re: FireFly Landing Gear Leg Strength Improvement (robert bean) 3. 06:15 AM - redrive (robert bean) 4. 08:01 AM - Re: redrive (Richard & Martha Neilsen) 5. 08:26 AM - Re: redrive (John Hauck) 6. 10:22 AM - Center Gap-seal coming loose (HGRAFF@aol.com) 7. 10:30 AM - Re: redrive (herbgh@juno.com) 8. 11:12 AM - Re: Center Gap-seal coming loose (Richard & Martha Neilsen) 9. 11:12 AM - Re: redrive (Richard Girard) 10. 11:23 AM - Re: Center Gap-seal coming loose (APilot@webtv.net) 11. 11:30 AM - Re: Center Gap-seal coming loose (Richard Girard) 12. 11:34 AM - H frame replacement (Richard Girard) 13. 11:49 AM - Re: Grand Vortex Generator Challenge aka Not Invented (pat ladd) 14. 12:41 PM - Re: Grand Vortex Generator Challenge aka Not Invented (N27SB@aol.com) 15. 12:57 PM - Remaining FAT ultralights after Deadline (jb92563) 16. 01:14 PM - Re: Things to see from a Kolb in the air (jb92563) 17. 01:35 PM - Re: Remaining FAT ultralights after Deadline (Dana Hague) 18. 01:38 PM - Re: Things to see from a Kolb in the air (cristalclear13) 19. 01:48 PM - Re: redrive (Richard & Martha Neilsen) 20. 01:53 PM - Re: Things to see from a Kolb in the air (WillUribe@aol.com) 21. 01:55 PM - Re: Remaining FAT ultralights after Deadline (cristalclear13) 22. 02:12 PM - completion of a journey (Larry Cottrell) 23. 02:25 PM - Weight & Balance for FS II needed (John H Murphy) 24. 02:50 PM - Re: Wing Bracing (Rick Lewis) 25. 03:00 PM - Re: Weight & Balance for FS II needed (Larry Cottrell) 26. 03:07 PM - Re: Re: Things to see from a Kolb in the air (possums) 27. 03:27 PM - Re: Re: Things to see from a Kolb in the air (Jim Kmet) 28. 03:35 PM - Re: Re: Things to see from a Kolb in the air (Russ Kinne) 29. 05:01 PM - Re: Wing Bracing (JetPilot) 30. 05:13 PM - Re: I Passed! (lcottrell) 31. 05:44 PM - Re: Wing Bracing (Jim Kmet) 32. 05:57 PM - Re: Re: I Passed! (Russ Kinne) 33. 06:01 PM - Re: Re: I Passed! (Robert Laird) 34. 06:54 PM - Re: I Passed! (John Williamson) 35. 07:26 PM - Re: Center Gap-seal coming loose (HGRAFF@aol.com) 36. 07:59 PM - Re: Re: I Passed! (Robert Laird) 37. 08:23 PM - Re: completion of a journey (R. Hankins) 38. 08:29 PM - Picture of Firestar - for upcoming inspection (John H Murphy) 39. 08:59 PM - Re: Re: I Passed! (David Key) 40. 09:27 PM - Re: Picture of Firestar - for upcoming inspection (Larry Cottrell) 41. 09:39 PM - Re: Wing Bracing (JetPilot) 42. 09:45 PM - Re: Re: I Passed! (Richard Pike) 43. 09:46 PM - Re: Wing Bracing (JetPilot) 44. 09:51 PM - Flying the Mark III Xtra without doors, has anyone done it ? (JetPilot) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:05:24 AM PST US From: ElleryWeld@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List:Wing Bracing John or anyone Got a picture of where to install the 1/2" aluminum angle bracing in the the wings ? I would like to do this before I start the covering Job and if theres anything else that needs attention I would like to hear from you about it Ellery in Maine Building Mk3X #00011 do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:55:49 AM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: FireFly Landing Gear Leg Strength Improvement Thom may be right about the vertical impact force bending the tailboom as there is zero evidence of bruising at the tail top parts. The sequence went as follows: high stall, left wheel snaps on impact, wheel zips across to the right. (at this point one would think that the tail would hit too, causing an UPWARD bend in the tailboom) But since my boggled brain was focussing on staying out of the errant wheel trajectory I completely missed that part of the action. Anyway the plane continued sliding, nose down for another 15' until the stub picked a favorable point to dig in and over Thom went. Outside half loop. As far as the H-tube goes, I would give it a close inspection when it is revealed. When I rebuilt my bent left wing I had to replace its H-tube because it was one of the all aluminum types. The rivets go into a blind hole on them and there is NO way to get them out. BB do not archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:15:03 AM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Kolb-List: redrive Here is a new source for a VW redrive: http://www.polmotor-aviation.com/index.php?go=2 BB ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:01:36 AM PST US From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: redrive Bob Thanks. The redrive looks good. Allot of questions come to mind. How much is it? How much does it weigh? Who well made is it? Does the redrive allow for up or down mounting? How effective is the harmonic dampener? Is it supported. I have too much time invested it the setup I have, it is light weight and runs smooth. I'm happy with what I have. Anyone else what to run with this one? Some thoughts: Weight is a problem with VWs you have to be very carful to keep the engine light. This geared redrive looks like it would add 23-25 or more lbs to the engine. The other geared redrive that some people talk about for Geos and VWs adds about that much weight. If the redrive is able to be mounted in the down the position the VW engine could be mounted on the stock Kolb mount with a adapter but the adapter for my direct drive VW added 5-8 lbs. The current Kolb VW mount wouldn't work with this redrive without a minor change. The mounting lugs for the bed type mount aren't spaced the same on the front and back of the engine. This redrive mounts the redrive on the flywheel end of the engine so the engine would need to mounted with the fly wheel end towards the back. The harmonic issues with my cog belt drive caused vibration cracking on exhaust, air cleaners and caused bolts to work loose. I know Gene Smith tried a number of harmonic dampeners on their cog belt drives and even tried a sparg clutch without much success. Even the 912 guys have exhaust system cracking due to engine prop harmonics. The one way slipping serpentine belt drive I have now is very smooth. Will these redrives be as smooth? I have in effect been the test pilot for composite props and Kolbs for the Valley redrive. Who wants to test pilot these. I'm not trying to scare you off from these redrives. I just want people to try these drive with your eyes open to the potential issues. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIC ----- Original Message ----- From: "robert bean" Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 9:13 AM Subject: Kolb-List: redrive > > Here is a new source for a VW redrive: > > http://www.polmotor-aviation.com/index.php?go=2 > > BB > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:26:54 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: redrive Even the 912 guys have exhaust system > cracking due to engine prop harmonics. > Rick Neilsen Rick: I'm getting ready to load up and head West with my dirt bike and 5th wheel, but will take a minute to reply to this statement first. How did you determine we are having problems with 912 exhaust systems due to "engine/prop harmonics"? The STE system that I am using has a design problem of hard mounting attachment tabs to the each cyl head. There was a run of Titan exhaust systems that ran with improper outlet material. Stubs were not Rotax and not stout enough to handle the job. Not aware of any engine/prop harmonics. The torsional vibration system, that includes a slip clutch, does a great job keeping the 912 smooth.............. I plan on riding in NM, CO, UT, NV, AZ, CA, and if it ain't too cold, head up to the Rock House in SE corner of OR. Larry and Karen Cottrell hunt the hawk and falcon this month. I would love to be able to observe that, plus he and Karen are a hoot to hang out with and has a great area to ride the dirt bike. If you all want to have a cup of coffee, when I am in your area, send me a bc msg. I'd like to hook up some names and faces from the Kolb List. Take care, john h mkIII ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:22:03 AM PST US From: HGRAFF@aol.com Subject: Kolb-List: Center Gap-seal coming loose Our Kolb Mark III, 256KT, is in high speed taxi tests, with some airborne stretches in the taxi. The Center Gap-seal shed its hold down springs in back and also popped out of the center hold. Shortening the rear springs to increase tension didn't help, for it happened again a second time. That gap-seal must really flap about violently to shed its hold down springs. With the danger of it shedding a piece of itself, going through the prop, and getting flung into the control surfaces or denting the main boom, this needs a resolution prior to further "taxiing".. Has anybody experienced this, if yes, how was it fixed. In appreciation of a solution, which certainly must exist, Many thanks, Herb ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:30:41 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: redrive From: herbgh@juno.com Richard Do not think it gets more elegant and therefore simple than the redrive you have on your engine.. Wondering how many hours you have on it by now? Herb ps what is the brand and pn of the belts? :-) On Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:56:36 -0400 "Richard & Martha Neilsen" writes: > > > Bob > > Thanks. The redrive looks good. Allot of questions come to mind. How > much is > it? How much does it weigh? Who well made is it? Does the redrive > allow for > up or down mounting? How effective is the harmonic dampener? Is it > supported. > > I have too much time invested it the setup I have, it is light > weight and > runs smooth. I'm happy with what I have. Anyone else what to run > with this > one? > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:12:41 AM PST US From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Center Gap-seal coming loose Herb I never heard of this happening. Do you have a classic or extra. My classic center gap seal wraps around the leading edge and under the wings 5-6 inches. Then there is a hook in the center of the seal that hooks into hole in the top of the cage. I have bolts that stick out of the universal joints at the back of the wing that the seal is secured to with wing nuts and safety clips. Make sure when you install the seal that the hook in the center of the seal goes into the tube in the cage. The rear attachment appears to nothing more than to keep the seal from moving forward. Make sure that you have also covered the area under the seal with fabric. If this doesn't help maybe a photo of your seal and center section will help us help you. I once heard Dennis Souder say he designed the seal and it may be a bit overkill. That has always been my assessment so I'm surprised at your problem. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIC ----- Original Message ----- From: HGRAFF@aol.com To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 1:18 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Center Gap-seal coming loose Our Kolb Mark III, 256KT, is in high speed taxi tests, with some airborne stretches in the taxi. The Center Gap-seal shed its hold down springs in back and also popped out of the center hold. Shortening the rear springs to increase tension didn't help, for it happened again a second time. That gap-seal must really flap about violently to shed its hold down springs. With the danger of it shedding a piece of itself, going through the prop, and getting flung into the control surfaces or denting the main boom, this needs a resolution prior to further "taxiing".. Has anybody experienced this, if yes, how was it fixed. In appreciation of a solution, which certainly must exist, Many thanks, Herb ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- See ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:12:58 AM PST US From: "Richard Girard" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: redrive Running a new redrive can be such fun. I had a Ross on a Mazda 13B that needed so many modifications to fix it I eventually dumped the whole project. Little things like .38 end play on the input shaft (not a misprint, 3/8"), can be a real pain to correct. These guys have a slow website and I got tired of waiting, but another question to add is how is it lubricated. Some run the engine oil for the gearbox. Doubtful, but better to know before the box arrives. On the other hand, the Czechs and Poles have very high standards for metal work, if the dollar stops tanking, this could be real nice. Rick On 10/10/07, herbgh@juno.com wrote: > > > Richard > > Do not think it gets more elegant and therefore simple than the redrive > you have on your engine.. Wondering how many hours you have on it by > now? Herb > > > ps what is the brand and pn of the belts? :-) > > On Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:56:36 -0400 "Richard & Martha Neilsen" > writes: > > > > > > Bob > > > > Thanks. The redrive looks good. Allot of questions come to mind. How > > much is > > it? How much does it weigh? Who well made is it? Does the redrive > > allow for > > up or down mounting? How effective is the harmonic dampener? Is it > > supported. > > > > I have too much time invested it the setup I have, it is light > > weight and > > runs smooth. I'm happy with what I have. Anyone else what to run > > with this > > one? > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:23:48 AM PST US From: APilot@webtv.net Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Center Gap-seal coming loose The gap seal on the plans seemed somewhat light. I built a stronger assembly with a lower cross piece that extends one inch past the bottom of the wing so that it cannot blow up. I use positive hold metal at the rear with springs to hold them in place and nylon cords to keep them out of the prop if they should break. The rear can be held down with bolts and wing nuts or nut plates at a very little extra time in disassembly. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:30:09 AM PST US From: "Richard Girard" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Center Gap-seal coming loose Herb, Ditto to Rick's remarks, except my IIIC doesn't have the bolts Rick describes, just a couple of springs to hole the gap seal pulled tight around the leading edge. Is the Lexan completely framed by aluminum at the rear? Rick On 10/10/07, Richard & Martha Neilsen wrote: > > Herb > > I never heard of this happening. Do you have a classic or extra. My > classic center gap seal wraps around the leading edge and under the wings > 5-6 inches. Then there is a hook in the center of the seal that hooks into > hole in the top of the cage. I have bolts that stick out of the universal > joints at the back of the wing that the seal is secured to with wing nuts > and safety clips. Make sure when you install the seal that the hook in the > center of the seal goes into the tube in the cage. The rear attachment > appears to nothing more than to keep the seal from moving forward. Make sure > that you have also covered the area under the seal with fabric. If this > doesn't help maybe a photo of your seal and center section will help us help > you. > > I once heard Dennis Souder say he designed the seal and it may be a bit > overkill. That has always been my assessment so I'm surprised at your > problem. > > Rick Neilsen > Redrive VW powered MKIIIC > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* HGRAFF@aol.com > *To:* kolb-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Wednesday, October 10, 2007 1:18 PM > *Subject:* Kolb-List: Center Gap-seal coming loose > > Our Kolb Mark III, 256KT, is in high speed taxi tests, with some airborne > stretches in the taxi. > > The Center Gap-seal shed its hold down springs in back and also popped out > of the center hold. > > Shortening the rear springs to increase tension didn't help, for it > happened again a second time. > > That gap-seal must really flap about violently to shed its hold down > springs. With the danger of it shedding a piece of itself, going through the > prop, and getting flung into the control surfaces or denting the main boom, > this needs a resolution prior to further "taxiing".. > > Has anybody experienced this, if yes, how was it fixed. > > In appreciation of a solution, which certainly must exist, > > Many thanks, Herb > > > ------------------------------ > See > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > * > > * > > > * > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:34:49 AM PST US From: "Richard Girard" Subject: Kolb-List: H frame replacement Thom, Consider the cost benefit ratio. How much does a new "H" brace cost versus the difficulty to match holes with the old one? How much will it cost if you don't get the holes spot on, or at least close enough to fix with the next oversize rivet? RIck ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:49:53 AM PST US From: "pat ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Grand Vortex Generator Challenge aka Not Invented Hi Lar, looked up your blog. you are really enjoying yourself. I think if I ever had the urge to climb some of the stuff you have been tackling I should go and lie down until the urge passes. Nice to be reminded of Santa Fe and how much we enjoyed being with you last year after MV. Espececially reminded by some of the Indian jewelery. Those girls selling the wares in the main square really know their stuff.. I showed one of them a silver belt buckle with a nice stone and a bear claw which I had bought in a small town up near Durango and she told me what mine the stone had come from. She about confirmed all the things which the owner of the store had told me about the buckle during his sales pitch.. We have had quite a nice Indian Summer and we went to our cottage at Appledore last weekend. Spring tides and the estuary was full and there was some catamaran racing going on. As they tack just below our garden wall it is quite exciting. Wendy and I bought each other electric bicyles for our birthdays in August. They fold and we took them to the cottage with us as there isa disused railway line which has been paved for the use of walkers and cyclists. Of course it is level and makes for good cycling. The track runs aong the side of the estuary with lots of water birds, egrets, duck, stoneturns, dunlin etc. The bikes are good. If you dont pedal then you get no help from the motor so there is some exercise involved. There are six gears and maximum legal speed is 18 mph. The battery lasts about 20 miles or so depending on how much effort you put in and that is as long as I intend to sit on a bicycle saddle anyway. I managed to fall off during a test ride. The bike has 16" wheels and I ran off the edge of a concrete drive onto the dirt road and lost my balance. This raised a lump on my shin about as big as a hens egg and turned my legs technicolor and I was a bit shook up. Added to that I had a professional company come to weigh the Kolb and I put my back out lifting the tail to put the scales under. That put me more or less out of action for a week. Still it was an interesting exercise as the guy who weighed the plane was weighing the Vulcan, a big bat winged bomber designed to carry an atom bomb only the day before. This is the bomber with which we bombed Port Stanley airfield in the Falklands. The Vulcan was due to be scrapped about 2 weeks after the Falklands show started. If the Argies had left it 6 months later we would have had no planes able to reach them. A bunch of volunteers is trying to get one of them back into flying order. A hell of a tall order but with luck they hope to have her on the show circuit next summer. Keep in touch Pat. (love from Wendy) ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:41:15 PM PST US From: N27SB@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Grand Vortex Generator Challenge aka Not Invented In a message dated 10/9/2007 10:08:28 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, biglar@gogittum.com writes: www.gogittum.com/blog Really Good Stuff, Thanks for sharing. Old Guys Rule Steve Firefly 007/Floats do not archive ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:57:07 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Remaining FAT ultralights after Deadline From: "jb92563" What will happen to all these FAT Ultralights that have not registered for the E-LSA designation? Can you still register them as E-LSA or can you register them as a regular Experimental aircraft. Can we expect a lot of PARTS coming onto the market in 2008? I was wondering what value the remaining FAT Ultralights have in the US that are for sale still. I believe some may still qualify as Ultralights in Canada however. Ray -------- Ray Riverside County, CA Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139239#139239 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 01:14:29 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Things to see from a Kolb in the air From: "jb92563" Just wanted to revive this thread since there are some great pictures on here from around the country. Anyone have some Riverside to Utah trip Pics. If there is another one I might get my Ultrastar ready in time to join a couple legs of that trip and I would not mind seeing some of the route ahead of time. I'm sure everyone has taken a pic from their Kolb or from another aircraft to snap a picture of a Kolb in flight. How about posting it for all of us to enjoy! -------- Ray Riverside County, CA Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139244#139244 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 01:35:56 PM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Remaining FAT ultralights after Deadline At 03:56 PM 10/10/2007, jb92563 wrote: >Can you still register them as E-LSA or can you register them as a >regular Experimental aircraft. Once the deadline's passed, you're screwed, unless you can "prove" you built it yourself. Could be we'll see a thriving black market for construction photos, perhaps photoshopped to put the "builder" into the picture... -Dana -- -- But do you trust the _government_ with semi-automatic assault rifles? ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 01:38:28 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Things to see from a Kolb in the air From: "cristalclear13" See the choo-choo twains on the choo-choo twacks? :D You'll see lots of those if you come to Waycross GA. -------- Cristal Mark II Twinstar Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139252#139252 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/rice_yard5_waycross_2007_02_24_154.jpg ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:48:28 PM PST US From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: redrive Herb & Vince I don't know the make and part number of the belts. I just looked and it has warn off. This is the same redrive they put on their big twin just a bit larger. My drive is a preproduction model. There is a wear indicator on the redrive their instructions were to replace the belts after the redrive has traversed the wear indicator twice. Their prototype drive went 100 hours on the belts and are still in good shape. I have 25 hours on my redrive and can't see any wear but I do see belt dust on the engine case. My belts were used belts because they got the drive to me just before Oshkosh and they didn't want me having to adjust the belts on my trip. I understand new belts need a few adjustments in the first hour of wear in. The wear indicator on my belts hasn't moved since I installed the drive. I don't know what the cost of replacement belts will be. I don't know of any maintenance other than the belts. There are six silicone balls that act as the spring for the tensioning arm that might need replacement some time but they think they are good for ever. They do recommend run up testing from time to time to make sure the belts aren't slipping but that's about it. In preflight I check the wear indicator. Knowing how the drive works I figure that If you miss the movement on the wear indicator you might see some slippage on takeoff under full power in the form of higher than normal RPMs. Throttling back to normal RPMs should keep you climbing but at a somewhat reduced rate. They tell me properly adjusted one of the two belts will drive the prop. I get no money from Valley and I purchased the first redrive. The upgrade to the new redrive and all the other reduction ratios they sent me on the old redrive were all free. All I had to pay is return shipping. They sent me a E-mail a week ago that they were going to send me a two bladed wood 74" prop to try. They say it is free unless I keep it. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIC ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 1:25 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: redrive > > Richard > > Do not think it gets more elegant and therefore simple than the redrive > you have on your engine.. Wondering how many hours you have on it by > now? Herb > > > ps what is the brand and pn of the belts? :-) > > On Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:56:36 -0400 "Richard & Martha Neilsen" > writes: >> >> >> Bob >> >> Thanks. The redrive looks good. Allot of questions come to mind. How >> much is >> it? How much does it weigh? Who well made is it? Does the redrive >> allow for >> up or down mounting? How effective is the harmonic dampener? Is it >> supported. >> >> I have too much time invested it the setup I have, it is light >> weight and >> runs smooth. I'm happy with what I have. Anyone else what to run >> with this >> one? >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 01:53:37 PM PST US From: WillUribe@aol.com Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Things to see from a Kolb in the air ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 01:55:37 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Remaining FAT ultralights after Deadline From: "cristalclear13" According to DAR, Mike Huffman, you would have to try to certify the plane as E-AB. If you falsify the fact that you built it, there is a fee up to $10,000 or 5 years in prison. Check out page 4 of 5 under "What if you miss the deadline?" section in his article: http://www.sportaviationspecialties.com/Apr_07_PrepForCertDeadline.pdf -------- Cristal Mark II Twinstar Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139257#139257 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 02:12:15 PM PST US From: "Larry Cottrell" Subject: Kolb-List: completion of a journey Today I completed a journey begun 10 years and 6 months ago. I just returned from Boise,Id with the Airworthy certificate for Kolb Firestar II 6080M. It has been a long and difficult task. Primarily because my "Bullshit" filter kept clogging up and side tracking me from the task at hand. I ended up with E A B, because when I began this process that was the only thing available. I blithly thought that the difference between getting it registered as a "Light Sport" and EAB was a non event. Then the fact that Oklahoma mispelled my name on the registration as the builder, was to me a non event as long as I was willing to accept their mistakes. Alas that was not to be either. I was required to get a new one with the right spelling. Then the paper work that would allow me to get it Light sport was misplaced for a month while I was off hunting. I just bit the bullet and said ok EAB it is, I didn't want to wait the extra time that it would take to get it right. Truth be known I do not ever see me selling it anyway. An additional plane would actually be a likelier possibility. I will now have to fly off 40 hours on a plane that has 374 hours on the meter. That isn't a big deal either I guess. Now that I have completed my journey with Arty to the Texas border and back through MV, 45 naut. miles seems just right. I now have a certificate that allows me to work on light sport planes if I own them, (aprox $500.00 bucks when it is all counted.) Will have a "repairmans Cert." for EAB. Inspection today cost me $350.00 and I assembled it in his driveway. "totally legal & boring" Larry, Oregon do not archive ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 02:25:28 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Weight & Balance for FS II needed From: "John H Murphy" I'm trying to get my W&B ready for my inspection. I would like to see what the ARM's are for the Firestar. Could anybody email or post those numbers? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139263#139263 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 02:50:21 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List:Wing Bracing From: "Rick Lewis" I am also building the MK3x and have taken many pictures of the wing that Brian is building right now. I'm sure these pictures would be of help to you. Send me your e-mail address and I will get them to you. I will be leaving on a trip tomorrow and will be gone for a full week, so I will need to hear from you tonight if you want the pictures right now. Just a darn shame we don't have plans to build by. Rick Lewis Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139266#139266 ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 03:00:13 PM PST US From: "Larry Cottrell" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Weight & Balance for FS II needed Subject: Kolb-List: Weight & Balance for FS II needed > > I'm trying to get my W&B ready for my inspection. I would like to see what > the ARM's are for the Firestar. Could anybody email or post those > numbers? > > Here is the spread sheet obtained from Guy Swenson, modified by me, that I used for my recently completed inspection. If you want to change any of the values you will need to "unprotect" it. It is great in that it does all the work for you. It reflects the extremes that might be encountered in a Firestar. Not my own weight. However, all the items and measurements in it should be of your airplane. Keep in mind that your plane will probably be different, hopefully weigh less. The tail wheel for instance is the breakaway from TNK and weighs more than the stock one. Larry, Oregon ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 03:07:14 PM PST US From: possums Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Things to see from a Kolb in the air At 04:14 PM 10/10/2007, you wrote: >I'm sure everyone has taken a pic from their Kolb or from another >aircraft to snap a picture of a Kolb in flight. > >How about posting it for all of us to enjoy! > >-------- >Ray >Riverside County, CA Sorry - I couldn't help myself. >Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 03:27:04 PM PST US From: "Jim Kmet" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Things to see from a Kolb in the air Can`t tell, but was your seatbelt on? Do not Archive. ----- Original Message ----- From: "possums" Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 5:06 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Things to see from a Kolb in the air > At 04:14 PM 10/10/2007, you wrote: > >>I'm sure everyone has taken a pic from their Kolb or from another >>aircraft to snap a picture of a Kolb in flight. >> >>How about posting it for all of us to enjoy! >> >>-------- >>Ray >>Riverside County, CA > > > Sorry - I couldn't help myself. > >>Do Not Archive > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 03:35:30 PM PST US From: Russ Kinne Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Things to see from a Kolb in the air Possums/Ray? That is one GREAT pic! -- and one very cool dude/pilot. Nice going! Russ Kinne do not archive ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 05:01:21 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List:Wing Bracing From: "JetPilot" Here are some pictures of the Angle Aluminum wing bracing. Don't forget to put some extra bracing on the wingtips also, they are prone to flutter at high speeds in the stock configuration. Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139294#139294 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/ultralightmikekolbbuildpictures008_135.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/ultralightmikekolbbuildpictures007_215.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/ultralightmikekolbbuildpictures006_539.jpg ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 05:13:45 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: I Passed! From: "lcottrell" Your callsign should be "Kolb 1782 Charlie" all the time with one addition. When you call an ATC Tower on initial callup you add "Experimental" to the end of your callsign then omit "Experimental" on subsequent contacts. See Aeronautical Information Manual section 4-2-4. Aircraft Call Signs. http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraffic/air_traffic/publications/ATpubs/AIM/ --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Weeeeeeeeeeeeeell, it seems as though there is a bit of conflict here. I haven't read the aforementioned FAR since it is far too early to go to sleep yet. My Eperimental operating limitations, given to me states "tHE PILOT IN COMMAND OF THIS AIRCRAFT MUST NOTIFY AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL OF THE EXPERIMENTAL NATURE OF THIS AIRCRAFT WHEN OPERATING INTO OR OUT OF AIRPORTS WITH AN OPERATIONAL CONTROL TOWER." Legal Larry, Or. -------- do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139296#139296 ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 05:44:55 PM PST US From: "Jim Kmet" Subject: Re: Kolb-List:Wing Bracing I must have missed something somewhere, Why is it that all of those ribs in that wing shot have angle bracing on them? Is that called for in the plans? I understand why the outboard rib gets it, but why all the others? Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "JetPilot" Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 7:00 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List:Wing Bracing > > Here are some pictures of the Angle Aluminum wing bracing. Don't forget > to put some extra bracing on the wingtips also, they are prone to flutter > at high speeds in the stock configuration. > > Mike > > -------- > "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you > could have !!! > > Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139294#139294 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/ultralightmikekolbbuildpictures008_135.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/ultralightmikekolbbuildpictures007_215.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/ultralightmikekolbbuildpictures006_539.jpg > > > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 05:57:12 PM PST US From: Russ Kinne Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: I Passed! What's all this? When you say "Kolb 1234 Alpha Experimental" on initial callup, you ARE telling ATC you're experimental. What could be more obvious? A bit of conflict? Where?? On Oct 10, 2007, at 8:13 PM, lcottrell wrote: > > Your callsign should be "Kolb 1782 Charlie" all the time with one > addition. When you call an ATC Tower on initial callup you add > "Experimental" to the end of your callsign then omit "Experimental" > on subsequent contacts. > > See Aeronautical Information Manual section 4-2-4. Aircraft Call > Signs. > http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraffic/air_traffic/publications/ > ATpubs/AIM/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----------- > Weeeeeeeeeeeeeell, it seems as though there is a bit of conflict > here. I haven't read the aforementioned FAR since it is far too > early to go to sleep yet. My Eperimental operating limitations, > given to me states "tHE PILOT IN COMMAND OF THIS AIRCRAFT MUST > NOTIFY AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL OF THE EXPERIMENTAL NATURE OF THIS > AIRCRAFT WHEN OPERATING INTO OR OUT OF AIRPORTS WITH AN OPERATIONAL > CONTROL TOWER." > Legal Larry, Or. > > -------- > do not archive > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139296#139296 > > ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 06:01:52 PM PST US From: "Robert Laird" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: I Passed! I don't dispute the AIM giving the example of using "experimental" at the end of the first contact, and eliminating it afterwards... however... My CFI explained to me that there are so many experimental aircraft out there, that ATC much less the other pilots in the pattern wouldn't have a clue what a Kolb is (or, "fill in the blank" is), so, rather than confuse them repeatedly (which is contrary to the point of air traffic communication), just say "Experimental one-two-three" as your call sign. The entire time I was taking lessons at a controlled airport, I did as he said and always said "Experimental two-two-six-niner-Juliet" and it was -always- accepted by ATC. Other aircraft in the pattern that were experimentals would usually do the same. The occasional Vans or Lancair might use their model as their identifier, but those aircraft are pretty much known to all. So, while my CFI was technically wrong, he was emphasizing that clarity and simplicity are two very important qualities in air traffic communication. -- Robert On 10/10/07, lcottrell wrote: > > > Your callsign should be "Kolb 1782 Charlie" all the time with one > addition. When you call an ATC Tower on initial callup you add > "Experimental" to the end of your callsign then omit "Experimental" on > subsequent contacts. > > See Aeronautical Information Manual section 4-2-4. Aircraft Call Signs. > > http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraffic/air_traffic/publications/ATpubs/AIM/ > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Weeeeeeeeeeeeeell, it seems as though there is a bit of conflict here. I > haven't read the aforementioned FAR since it is far too early to go to sleep > yet. My Eperimental operating limitations, given to me states "tHE PILOT IN > COMMAND OF THIS AIRCRAFT MUST NOTIFY AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL OF THE EXPERIMENTAL > NATURE OF THIS AIRCRAFT WHEN OPERATING INTO OR OUT OF AIRPORTS WITH AN > OPERATIONAL CONTROL TOWER." > Legal Larry, Or. > > -------- > do not archive > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139296#139296 > > ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 06:54:31 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: I Passed! From: "John Williamson" Robert and All, As you stated: "My CFI explained to me that there are so many experimental aircraft out there, that ATC much less the other pilots in the pattern wouldn't have a clue what a Kolb is (or, "fill in the blank" is), so, rather than confuse them repeatedly (which is contrary to the point of air traffic communication), just say "Experimental one-two-three" as your call sign. The entire time I was taking lessons at a controlled airport, I did as he said and always said "Experimental two-two-six-niner-Juliet" and it was -always- accepted by ATC. Other aircraft in the pattern that were experimentals would usually do the same. The occasional Vans or Lancair might use their model as their identifier, but those aircraft are pretty much known to all. So, while my CFI was technically wrong, he was emphasizing that clarity and simplicity are two very important qualities in air traffic communication. -- Robert " Just because you were taught incorrectly is not a reason to perpetuate the incorrect phraseology. For more clarification you can go to FAA Order 7110.65 and to FAA Order 7240.1. It is always correct to do it by the books. -------- John Williamson Arlington, TX Kolbra, 912ULS http://home.tx.rr.com/kolbrapilot Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139316#139316 ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 07:26:43 PM PST US From: HGRAFF@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Center Gap-seal coming loose Many thanks to you all, Rick & Rick & APilot, This happens on a classic MarkIII, and yes the area under the seal is covered with fabric. The gap seal has that hook in the center, (which it pops out of), and the rear has fairly strong springs holding the gap seal back and in place, but which unhook themselves from the gap seal, which was built standard to plans. Well, the main difference seems to be our rear gap seal attach is only "springy" while yours is rigid with wing nuts and safety pins, in addition to the springs. There is one other possible cause. Which is, there is an open gap between the top of the windshield and the gap seal, about 2-3 inches high. Could it be air flowing in there which is pressurizing the underside of the gap seal popping it up and loose. Do you have such a gap on your machine, or is it well sealed? Sorry, I don't have suitable pictures (yet) showing the gap seal detail and, the airport is 1.5 hours away. But here is a picture of the entire A/C : _http://members.aol.com/hgraff/KolbN246KT.jpg_ (http://members.aol.com/hgraff/KolbN246KT.jpg) Thanks for your help, Herb In a message dated 10/10/2007 2:13:25 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, NeilsenRM@comcast.net writes: Herb I never heard of this happening. Do you have a classic or extra. My classic center gap seal wraps around the leading edge and under the wings 5-6 inches. Then there is a hook in the center of the seal that hooks into hole in the top of the cage. I have bolts that stick out of the universal joints at the back of the wing that the seal is secured to with wing nuts and safety clips. Make sure when you install the seal that the hook in the center of the seal goes into the tube in the cage. The rear attachment appears to nothing more than to keep the seal from moving forward. Make sure that you have also covered the area under the seal with fabric. If this doesn't help maybe a photo of your seal and center section will help us help you. I once heard Dennis Souder say he designed the seal and it may be a bit overkill. That has always been my assessment so I'm surprised at your problem. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIC ----- Original Message ----- From: _HGRAFF@aol.com_ (mailto:HGRAFF@aol.com) Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 1:18 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Center Gap-seal coming loose Our Kolb Mark III, 256KT, is in high speed taxi tests, with some airborne stretches in the taxi. The Center Gap-seal shed its hold down springs in back and also popped out of the center hold. Shortening the rear springs to increase tension didn't help, for it happened again a second time. That gap-seal must really flap about violently to shed its hold down springs. With the danger of it shedding a piece of itself, going through the prop, and getting flung into the control surfaces or denting the main boom, this needs a resolution prior to further "taxiing".. Has anybody experienced this, if yes, how was it fixed. In appreciation of a solution, which certainly must exist, Many thanks, Herb ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 07:59:39 PM PST US From: "Robert Laird" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: I Passed! Geez, John! I respect your experience, piloting skills, choice of aircraft, your web site, etc., but you're gonna throw "the book" at me? Over this? Like most governmental documents, you can easily find places it contradicts and/or obscures itself... AIM 4-2-4.a.3 "Civil aircraft pilots should state the aircraft type, model OR manufacturer's name, followed by the digits/letters of the registration number." Aircraft type for experimental,FAA Order 7110.65, Appendix C, "Aircraft with cruise (indicated) airspeeds of 100 knots or less [are type] HXA" So, it would seem perfectly CORRECT call signs would include Kolb MkIII one-two-three Alpha (model) HXA one-two-three Alpha (type) and since I'm the manufacturer, according to the official FAA Special Airworthiness Certificate, then it would be -correct- to say Laird Robert one-two-three Alpha or maybe they meant the type certificate, so, of "normal, utility, acrobatic, transport, glider, restricted, surplus or import" I'd have to choose Normal one-two-three Alpha And, as the example previously noted pointed out, I could (first time) add "Experimental" to any of those. Frankly, I think if an ATC or pilot were presented with any of those, they'd be confused, or at least MORE confused than simply Experimental one-two-three Alpha After all, AIM 4-2-1.b "The single, most important thought in pilot-controller communications is understanding." so using any of the -correct- methods may be be the proper method de jure, but de facto they contradict the "single most important thought" as per the FAA. And, besides, if it's good enough for most CFIs I've met, a large number of air traffic controllers sitting in an active tower over a period of years, and an even larger number of experimental pilots flying in more towered airports than I could visit in a lifetime, then it's good enough for me. -- Robert On 10/10/07, John Williamson wrote: > > > > > Robert and All, > > As you stated: "My CFI explained to me that there are so many experimental > aircraft out there, that ATC much less the other pilots in the pattern > wouldn't have a clue what a Kolb is (or, "fill in the blank" is), so, rather > than confuse them repeatedly (which is contrary to the point of air traffic > communication), just say "Experimental one-two-three" as your call sign. The > entire time I was taking lessons at a controlled airport, I did as he said > and always said "Experimental two-two-six-niner-Juliet" and it was -always- > accepted by ATC. Other aircraft in the pattern that were experimentals would > usually do the same. The occasional Vans or Lancair might use their model as > their identifier, but those aircraft are pretty much known to all. So, while > my CFI was technically wrong, he was emphasizing that clarity and simplicity > are two very important qualities in air traffic communication. -- Robert " > > Just because you were taught incorrectly is not a reason to perpetuate the > incorrect phraseology. For more clarification you can go to FAA Order > 7110.65 and to FAA Order 7240.1. > > It is always correct to do it by the books. > > -------- > John Williamson > Arlington, TX > > Kolbra, 912ULS > http://home.tx.rr.com/kolbrapilot > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139316#139316 > > ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 08:23:35 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: completion of a journey From: "R. Hankins" Congatulations Larry! If you get that second airplane, you can always leave the drift boat at my place to make room for it. [Wink] Do not archive -------- Roger in Oregon 1992 KXP 503 - N1782C Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139329#139329 ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 08:29:58 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Picture of Firestar - for upcoming inspection From: "John H Murphy" It's getting down to the wire for my inspection of my Firestar II, N702V. I thought I had everything I needed but now realize that I'm missing a picture. Does this have to be a photo or can a hand drawn picture suffice? Does anyone have a line drawing? Thanks to lcottrell for the weight & balance information. It really helped!!! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139332#139332 ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 08:59:05 PM PST US From: David Key Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: I Passed! May times when I say KOLB I have to repeat it and then Kilo-Oscar-Lemia-Br avo it and once I'm done with all that they aren't any more informed than t hey were if I'd of left it all out. Why do they need to know the type plane ? Speed range and/or weight? t@matronics.comSubject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: I Passed!Geez, John! I respect your experience, piloting skills, choice of aircraft, your web site, etc., but you're gonna throw "the book" at me? Over this? Like most governmenta l documents, you can easily find places it contradicts and/or obscures itse lf... AIM 4-2-4.a.3 "Civil aircraft pilots should state the aircraft type, model OR manufacturer's name, followed by the digits/letters of the regist ration number." Aircraft type for experimental, FAA Order 7110.65, Appendi x C, "Aircraft with cruise (indicated) airspeeds of 100 knots or less [are type] HXA" So, it would seem perfectly CORRECT call signs would include Ko lb MkIII one-two-three Alpha (model) HXA one-two-three Alpha (type)and since I'm the manufacturer, according to the official FAA Special Airworth iness Certificate, then it would be -correct- to say Laird Robert one-two -three Alphaor maybe they meant the type certificate, so, of "normal, utili ty, acrobatic, transport, glider, restricted, surplus or import" I'd have t o chooseNormal one-two-three Alpha And, as the example previously noted poi nted out, I could (first time) add "Experimental" to any of those.Frankly, I think if an ATC or pilot were presented with any of those, they'd be conf used, or at least MORE confused than simply Experimental one-two-three Alph aAfter all, AIM 4-2-1.b "The single, most important thought in pilot-cont roller communications is understanding." so using any of the -correct- meth ods may be be the proper method de jure, but de facto they contradict the " single most important thought" as per the FAA. And, besides, if it's good e nough for most CFIs I've met, a large number of air traffic controllers sit ting in an active tower over a period of years, and an even larger number o f experimental pilots flying in more towered airports than I could visit in a lifetime, then it's good enough for me. -- Robert On 10/10/07, John Williamson wrote: Robert and All,As you stated: "My CFI explained to me that there are so man y experimental aircraft out there, that ATC much less the other pilots in t he pattern wouldn't have a clue what a Kolb is (or, "fill in the blank" is) , so, rather than confuse them repeatedly (which is contrary to the point o f air traffic communication), just say "Experimental one-two-three" as your call sign. The entire time I was taking lessons at a controlled airport, I did as he said and always said "Experimental two-two-six-niner-Juliet" and it was -always- accepted by ATC. Other aircraft in the pattern that were e xperimentals would usually do the same. The occasional Vans or Lancair migh t use their model as their identifier, but those aircraft are pretty much k nown to all. So, while my CFI was technically wrong, he was emphasizing tha t clarity and simplicity are two very important qualities in air traffic co mmunication. -- Robert " Just because you were taught incorrectly is not a reason to perpetuate the incorrect phraseology. For more clarification you can go to FAA Order 7110.65 and to FAA Order 7240.1.It is always correct t o do it by the books. --------John WilliamsonArlington, TXKolbra, 912ULShtt p://home.tx.rr.com/kolbrapilotRead this topic online here:http://forums.mat ronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139316#139316 - The Kolb-List Email For umronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List"> content now also available via the Web F orums! ==================== ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 09:27:08 PM PST US From: "Larry Cottrell" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Picture of Firestar - for upcoming inspection > > It's getting down to the wire for my inspection of my Firestar II, N702V. > I thought I had everything I needed but now realize that I'm missing a > picture. Does this have to be a photo or can a hand drawn picture suffice? > Does anyone have a line drawing? > It can be either, and I gave him both. You will need the length- 20'3", width- 27'8", and height- 75". I used his computer and went to the Kolb site to get that info. :-) As for the line drawing I think George sent that recently. http://kolbplanes.home.comcast.net/FSII_3_View_bw.jpg Thanks George. Larry C, Oregon ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 09:39:59 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List:Wing Bracing From: "JetPilot" The bracing makes for a stiffer, stronger wing that will handle many years of fatigue better. If I ever get in a monster wake, or other event that puts a huge amount of G's on the plane, I will be very glad to have the extra bracing throughout the wing, not just the tips. The loads are carried by the ribs on the entire wing, not just the tips. Its only very little extra weight, maybe a couple pounds, and its well worth doing. Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139340#139340 ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 09:45:47 PM PST US From: "Richard Pike" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: I Passed! Let me weigh in from the other side of the tower glass. What the controller needs to know is how to separate you from whoever else, so he/she needs to know what you are, what you look like and what you act like. If you want to resolve that once and for all, go to the airport and shoot touch & goes every day at the same time for five days in a row. Every controller in the facility will know who and what you are. When you call ATC, use the 4 W's, Who I is What I is Where I is What I wants. As in "Dingbat tower (Approach, whatever), Kolb three two zero Charlie, Experimental, (position) with information Delta, (altitude) (intentions). For all subsequent transmissions, leave off the Experimental. If they want to know the speed, let them ask you. If you have a transponder, they can see your ground speed readout, so they don't need to ask. If you ever get a newbie controller who has had too much nose time in the books, and not enough in real life, you might get asked something like "What is the nature of the experiment?" The proper response is "Amateur built, to see if it will fly!" Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Retired ATC PS - Keep up the good work JW, you are a real asset! ----- Original Message ----- From: David Key To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 11:58 PM Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: I Passed! May times when I say KOLB I have to repeat it and then Kilo-Oscar-Lemia-Bravo it and once I'm done with all that they aren't any more informed than they were if I'd of left it all out. Why do they need to know the type plane? Speed range and/or weight? ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 21:58:56 -0500 From: rlaird@cavediver.com To: kolb-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: I Passed! Geez, John! I respect your experience, piloting skills, choice of aircraft, your web site, etc., but you're gonna throw "the book" at me? Over this? Like most governmental documents, you can easily find places it contradicts and/or obscures itself... AIM 4-2-4.a.3 "Civil aircraft pilots should state the aircraft type, model OR manufacturer's name, followed by the digits/letters of the registration number." Aircraft type for experimental, FAA Order 7110.65, Appendix C, "Aircraft with cruise (indicated) airspeeds of 100 knots or less [are type] HXA" So, it would seem perfectly CORRECT call signs would include Kolb MkIII one-two-three Alpha (model) HXA one-two-three Alpha (type) and since I'm the manufacturer, according to the official FAA Special Airworthiness Certificate, then it would be -correct- to say Laird Robert one-two-three Alpha or maybe they meant the type certificate, so, of "normal, utility, acrobatic, transport, glider, restricted, surplus or import" I'd have to choose Normal one-two-three Alpha And, as the example previously noted pointed out, I could (first time) add "Experimental" to any of those. Frankly, I think if an ATC or pilot were presented with any of those, they'd be confused, or at least MORE confused than simply Experimental one-two-three Alpha After all, AIM 4-2-1.b "The single, most important thought in pilot-controller communications is understanding." so using any of the -correct- methods may be be the proper method de jure, but de facto they contradict the "single most important thought" as per the FAA. And, besides, if it's good enough for most CFIs I've met, a large number of air traffic controllers sitting in an active tower over a period of years, and an even larger number of experimental pilots flying in more towered airports than I could visit in a lifetime, then it's good enough for me. -- Robert On 10/10/07, John Williamson wrote: Robert and All, As you stated: "My CFI explained to me that there are so many experimental aircraft out there, that ATC much less the other pilots in the pattern wouldn't have a clue what a Kolb is (or, "fill in the blank" is), so, rather than confuse them repeatedly (which is contrary to the point of air traffic communication), just say "Experimental one-two-three" as your call sign. The entire time I was taking lessons at a controlled airport, I did as he said and always said "Experimental two-two-six-niner-Juliet" and it was -always- accepted by ATC. Other aircraft in the pattern that were experimentals would usually do the same. The occasional Vans or Lancair might use their model as their identifier, but those aircraft are pretty much known to all. So, while my CFI was technically wrong, he was emphasizing that clarity and simplicity are two very important qualities in air traffic communication. -- Robert " Just because you were taught incorrectly is not a reason to perpetuate the incorrect phraseology. For more clarification you can go to FAA Order 7110.65 and to FAA Order 7240.1. It is always correct to do it by the books. -------- John Williamson Arlington, TX Kolbra, 912ULS http://home.tx.rr.com/kolbrapilot Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139316#139316 - The Kolb-List Email Forumronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List"> content now also available via the Web Forums! ==================== get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List p://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 09:46:05 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List:Wing Bracing From: "JetPilot" P.S. I have to give John Hauck credit for that mod, along with several others that will make the MARK III an airplane that can fly for thousands of hours without structural fatigue. I think he has about 2500 hours on his MK III ??? John has been building and flying all kinds of Kolbs since the very beginning, and knows many of the areas that need to be strengthened if you will be doing a lot of hard flying, and don't want fatigue. Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139341#139341 ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 09:51:40 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Flying the Mark III Xtra without doors, has anyone done it ? From: "JetPilot" I have seen many of the Kolbs including the Mark III Classic fly very well without doors, but I have a Mark III Xtra and was wondering if anyone has ever flown this model without doors ? The fuselage design of the Xtra is very different than the Classic MK III, and could yield very different results once the doors are removed. If any one has flown the MK III Xtra with the doors removed, what kind of performance and flight characteristics difference did you notice ? Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! 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