---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 10/17/07: 29 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:04 AM - Re: Ethanol (henry.voris) 2. 01:11 AM - Re: Gas, Ethanol and Mr.Funnel (henry.voris) 3. 01:52 AM - Re: Re: Gas, Ethanol and Mr.Funnel (pat ladd) 4. 02:30 AM - Re: Gas, Ethanol and Mr.Funnel (Dave Bigelow) 5. 04:10 AM - Re: Fw: VX (Richard Girard) 6. 04:12 AM - Re: Fw: VX (Richard Girard) 7. 05:09 AM - Re: VX (robert bean) 8. 05:41 AM - Re: Re: Gas, Ethanol and Mr.Funnel (Thom Riddle) 9. 05:58 AM - Re: Gas, Ethanol and Mr.Funnel (Thom Riddle) 10. 06:22 AM - Re: Re: "belly" dragger (Russ Kinne) 11. 06:59 AM - Re: Re: "belly" dragger (Richard Pike) 12. 07:09 AM - Re: Re: "belly" dragger (Bart Morgan) 13. 07:25 AM - Float mod info () 14. 07:34 AM - Re: Gas, Ethanol and Mr.Funnel (jb92563) 15. 07:41 AM - Re: Float mod info (jb92563) 16. 09:39 AM - Re: Gas, Ethanol and Mr.Funnel (The BaronVonEvil) 17. 10:18 AM - alcohol in fuel (pat ladd) 18. 10:52 AM - Re: VX (Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL) 19. 10:52 AM - Floats () 20. 12:08 PM - Re: Re: VX (Larry Cottrell) 21. 12:23 PM - Re: Re: Gas, Ethanol and Mr.Funnel (N27SB@aol.com) 22. 01:21 PM - Re: Floats (jb92563) 23. 02:49 PM - Re: Re: Gas, Ethanol and Mr.Funnel (Richard Pike) 24. 03:02 PM - Re: Re: Gas, Ethanol and Mr.Funnel (Larry Bourne) 25. 05:23 PM - Re: Firestar 2 (ElleryWeld@aol.com) 26. 05:35 PM - Re: Re: Gas, Ethanol and Mr.Funnel (N27SB@aol.com) 27. 06:18 PM - Re: Gas, Ethanol and Mr.Funnel (Dave Bigelow) 28. 07:17 PM - Re: Firestar 2 (possums) 29. 08:53 PM - Installing Book binding tape (herbgh@juno.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:04:48 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Ethanol From: "henry.voris" Dave, I think the best we can do about the fuel is follow "best practices"... I buy fuel from a gas station that sells a lot of fuel. I buy it right before I fly. At the end of a days flying I empty the tank, gascolator and float chamber. I feed the old gas to my truck and motorcycle, they both seem to like the 50:1 mix.. I have installed a gascolator. In Hawaii all gas has 10% ethanol, so we gain nothing by switching brands. If you have a fuel that questionable as to if it has ethanol in it or not... there is a simple test for ethanol called the "olive jar test". The how-to is covered in the CPS catalog. If you can't find it, eMail me off list and I'll send you the procedure. You said... "I know people tell me its a waste to use high test, alI in fact increasing my ethanol content? All mt engines seem to run better with it." I don't know if high test has more ethanol or not. I do know that fuel with higher ethanol content can absorb more water before suffering phase separation. So the ROTAX recommended 5% is more dangerous for phase separation than a 10% mix or above. Rick, Thanks for the word on paper filters. Very important... Ray, I saw a suggestion that you check the "canard aviators at yahoo" for solutions to the ethanol/fiberglass problem. I know that here, it has been giving the fishing boats with fiberglass tanks fits. Aloha, Henry FireFly Five-Charlie-Bravo -------- Henry Firefly Five-Charlie-Bravo Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140387#140387 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:11:36 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Gas, Ethanol and Mr.Funnel From: "henry.voris" Dave, Thanks for the info on McKelvey... I'll eMail him tonight... The Reps for Maui have been no help on this matter. They respond to my eMail with a form letter saying they'll get back to me... then nothing. When I inquire again they just ignore me. Lucky we live Hawaii... Periodically I have been checking on the availability of unadulterated fuel at Valley Isle Marine. They seem to have an inside track on the fuel situation... As you know the Hawaii Government couldn't care less if some haoli pilots fall outta the sky due to bad fuel, but they listen to the tens of thousands of guys with fishing boats parked in their driveways... Thom, I had heard conflicting "experts" pontificate about fuel, ethanol and Mr.Funnel, so I ran the tests to see for myself. It is interesting to hear what the "expert" from Mr.Funnel said... "Bottom line is that if the fuel that goes through the funnel is already phase separated, then the water/ethanol mix in the separate phase will not pass through the funnel." I am sorry, but this simply is not true... I ran the test on Jar #1 to see if fuel that had already suffered phase separation would pass through the filter. Everytime I ran the test (after reading your response I went to my workshop and ran the test several more times and I got the same result everytime), everything, fuel, ethanol, and water passed through the filter. In addition the sample that was caught in Mr.Funnel's trap contained, the water/ethanol separate and the fuel in the same proportions as the mix that had passed through the filter. This means that the water/ethanol separate passed through the filter with the same ease as the fuel... Also, I am a bit uneasy about the proposition, if you find water in your sump, to dump the water and continue. You had rightly pointed out that after the ethanol has separated the octane rating of the fuel drops to below a safe level. But even more importantly, if you are getting water in the sump, your fuel is already saturated... Any more water or a drop in the temperature will induce more phase separation and junk at the bottom of your tank. Thanks for your input. It helps me explain the points I am trying to make. Ray, Thank you for your kind words... I didn't mention paper filters, but I'm glad someone else (Rick) did... A gascolator is basically a sump, with a drain, placed at the lowest point of your fuel line. As the fuel enters the gascolator it loses it velocity and thus it's ability to carry water and other junk along with it. The water and other junk settles to the bottom to be drained out later, while the fuel leaves through the top. Rick, Right on... Dear Mr.Pilot, No, I didn't know the results of my tests before I ran them. In fact, I was surprised by some of the results that I got... It may be "obvious" and "apparent" to someone with the towering intellect of a jet pilot that... "If the water is separated from the gasoline, it will sit in the bottom of the MR Funnel and not be passed through." But as I explained to Thom it simply isn't true. Permit me to suggest that you enlighten the good people at Mr.Funnel as to your insight that gravity is the active agent of the Mr.Funnel. When I review their web site it is apparent the poor things are laboring under the misconception that their filter had something to do with it... BigLar, Thanks... Aloha Henry FireFly Five-Charlie-Bravo -------- Henry Firefly Five-Charlie-Bravo Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140388#140388 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:52:04 AM PST US From: "pat ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Gas, Ethanol and Mr.Funnel Lucky we live Hawaii..>> Hi Henry, caught an `extreme sports` film on TV the other night. Featured a girl going solo on a powered parachute in one section and someone flying a weighshift around Hawaii in the second part. Lots of film of the plane flying in beautiful locations in the mountains , in places that made my toes curl at the thought of an engine out. Also miles of film of streaking across the sea about 3 feet up. Beautifully shot but not a position I would like to put myself in. Wasn`t you by any chance? Cheers Pat ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:30:54 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Gas, Ethanol and Mr.Funnel From: "Dave Bigelow" Take Mr. Funnel and fill it with water - not a drop goes through the filter. I just tried it. Odd that the phase separated mixture goes through. Plain tap water sure doesn't. -------- Dave Bigelow Kamuela, Hawaii FS2, HKS 700E Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140392#140392 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:10:19 AM PST US From: "Richard Girard" Subject: Re: Fw: Kolb-List: VX Larry, Here's how I did it. All you need is an altimeter, an airspeed indicator, a stop watch, a pen and a pad to write on. A knee board is optional. :-) VX = the speed that gives the most altitude gain in the shortest distance, also known as obstacle clearance speed. VY = the speed that gives the most altitude gain in the shortest time. For brevity, cruise climb speed. Pick an altitude to start the test. I used 1000' above my field. I did 2 minute climbs at airspeeds from 3 mph above stall to my normal cruise speed in 5 mph increments. I started each climb at 800' so I could get stabilized and started the stop watch as I passed through 1000'. At 2 minutes I read the altimeter and recorded the altitude gain. VX, is the slowest speed that gives the best rate of climb with an adequate margin for stall recovery. You can also get VY if you want to do a bit of calculating. To get a chart of how these speeds are effected by density altitude, do the test on many days at a variety of barometric pressures and temperatures. Rick On 10/16/07, Larry Cottrell wrote: > > > Personally I would have nothing that would tell me what any angle that I > would fly anyway, even if I could figure out what VX is, the information > would be useless to any one flying my plane since I have absolutely no > instrument to measure it with. I use 50 MPH for my best speed for climb. My > inclination is to shine it. I was just wondering what some of the rest of > you EAB's used. > > Larry C > > > Please excuse my ignorance, I just looked it up on Google, and am a bit > embarrassed by the revelation. :-( > Larry C > > * > > > * > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:12:13 AM PST US From: "Richard Girard" Subject: Re: Fw: Kolb-List: VX Oops, forgot to add, to cancel out any convective activity, do the tests at sunrise. Rick On 10/17/07, Richard Girard wrote: > > Larry, Here's how I did it. All you need is an altimeter, an airspeed > indicator, a stop watch, a pen and a pad to write on. A knee board is > optional. :-) > VX = the speed that gives the most altitude gain in the shortest distance, > also known as obstacle clearance speed. > VY = the speed that gives the most altitude gain in the shortest time. For > brevity, cruise climb speed. > Pick an altitude to start the test. I used 1000' above my field. I did 2 > minute climbs at airspeeds from 3 mph above stall to my normal cruise speed > in 5 mph increments. I started each climb at 800' so I could get stabilized > and started the stop watch as I passed through 1000'. At 2 minutes I read > the altimeter and recorded the altitude gain. VX, is the slowest speed that > gives the best rate of climb with an adequate margin for stall recovery. You > can also get VY if you want to do a bit of calculating. > To get a chart of how these speeds are effected by density altitude, do > the test on many days at a variety of barometric pressures and temperatures. > > > Rick > > On 10/16/07, Larry Cottrell wrote: > > > > > > Personally I would have nothing that would tell me what any angle that I > > would fly anyway, even if I could figure out what VX is, the information > > would be useless to any one flying my plane since I have absolutely no > > instrument to measure it with. I use 50 MPH for my best speed for climb. My > > inclination is to shine it. I was just wondering what some of the rest of > > you EAB's used. > > > > Larry C > > > > > > Please excuse my ignorance, I just looked it up on Google, and am a bit > > embarrassed by the revelation. :-( > > Larry C > > > > * > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List > > http://forums.matronics.com > > > > * > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:09:55 AM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: VX For EAB a logbook entry is all that is required. Nothing to send in. You can write anything you please for those V speeds. BB do not archive ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:41:55 AM PST US From: Thom Riddle Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Gas, Ethanol and Mr.Funnel Larry & Mike, Not only was Mike's statement not fair, IT IS NOT TRUE. Mr. Funnel does not separate the water from the gasoline "by gravity". The screen allows gasoline to pass but not water. I use a small water separating filter for salvaging the fuel from my sump sample jar. I pour the sample from the sump trough this filter and the gasoline passes through the filter but the water stays ON TOP of the filter. Is this water levitating? I don't think so. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/gatsfueljar.php Thom in Buffalo ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:58:28 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Gas, Ethanol and Mr.Funnel From: "Thom Riddle" HENRY, Thanks for correcting my mis-statement. I've never used ethanol laced gasoline so I just made an educated but wrong guess about the phase separated water w/ ethanol not passing the filter. I know it works fine with water that is not contaminated with ethanol. Learning every day. do not archive -------- Thom in Buffalo N221FA Allegro 2000 912UL N197BG FS1/447 -------------------- "Setting an example is not the main means of influencing another, it is the only means." Albert Einstein Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140405#140405 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:22:55 AM PST US From: Russ Kinne Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: "belly" dragger Not quite Kolb-related, but -- years ago in Powell River BC I saw a 'broken-back' looking plane with a fuselage like the belly-dragger. Was told it was a "Luscombe sedan", 4 seats. Must have been the "Silvaire Sedan'? Model 11? I never saw one before or since . Anyone know anything about these? Russ Kinne do not archive On Oct 16, 2007, at 4:19 PM, jb92563 wrote: > > I'll bet that would turn on a dime. > > Ground loop prone perhaps as well in stiff x-winds. > > Its more of a backwards tricycle gear kindof rather than a tail > dragger. > > I though with this threads title it was going to be about us beer > drinking Kolbers.... ;-) > > -------- > Ray > Riverside County, CA > > Do Not Archive > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140315#140315 > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:59:46 AM PST US From: "Richard Pike" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: "belly" dragger Check here - http://rogerritter.com/aviation/luscombe.html Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Russ Kinne" Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2007 9:21 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: "belly" dragger > > Not quite Kolb-related, but -- years ago in Powell River BC I saw a > 'broken-back' looking plane with a fuselage like the belly-dragger. > Was told it was a "Luscombe sedan", 4 seats. Must have been the > "Silvaire Sedan'? Model 11? I never saw one before or since . Anyone > know anything about these? > Russ Kinne > do not archive > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:09:15 AM PST US From: Bart Morgan Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: "belly" dragger Russ, My first airplane ride was in a Luscombe 8A. The fellow who took me up later owned a Sedan. The were really neat planes. Had roll down windows like a car. Not many were made. One was for sale on Barnstormers a while ago. Bart Morgan Do not archive Russ Kinne wrote: Not quite Kolb-related, but -- years ago in Powell River BC I saw a 'broken-back' looking plane with a fuselage like the belly-dragger. Was told it was a "Luscombe sedan", 4 seats. Must have been the "Silvaire Sedan'? Model 11? I never saw one before or since . Anyone know anything about these? Russ Kinne do not archive On Oct 16, 2007, at 4:19 PM, jb92563 wrote: > > I'll bet that would turn on a dime. > > Ground loop prone perhaps as well in stiff x-winds. > > Its more of a backwards tricycle gear kindof rather than a tail > dragger. > > I though with this threads title it was going to be about us beer > drinking Kolbers.... ;-) > > -------- > Ray > Riverside County, CA > > Do Not Archive > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140315#140315 > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:25:41 AM PST US From: Subject: Kolb-List: Float mod info If you fly floats or are thinking about it this may be of interest to you. " and you can buy just the spreader tube for $575US" http://www.air-techinc.com/prod_cat_item.asp?categoryID=FloatsATFiberCat&typ=exclusives&ID=879 "click on the "learn more" button for a very good explanation, but no pictures. we would need to incorporate the tailwheels they speak of for sure, but i don't think brakes are necessary if you're good at ground handling. T." Dave R. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:34:22 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Gas, Ethanol and Mr.Funnel From: "jb92563" With all this trouble with ethanol and water maybe someone needs to build a filter/process that simply takes out the ethanol and the water so we don't have to deal with H20 saturated ethanol precipitating water in our tanks when the temperature drops, as is surely does the higher you fly. The lapse rate is 3.5 F/1000 ft so when you fly at 5,000 agl your temperature drop is about 17F. Fly there for a little while and see what condenses in your tank.....better have a gascolator! It no wonder that people are having flameouts in the air....and if they dont check right away, the water may be reabsorbed back into the fuel as it warms, leaving no evidence of the problem. I guess I'll need a gascolator too. Ray -------- Ray Riverside County, CA Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140420#140420 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:41:52 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Float mod info From: "jb92563" Wow...floats are expensive. Maybe I'll just buy a pair of those plastic unsinkable Kayaks instead and use those. They are more streamlined anyway... [Laughing] The spreader bar with wheels is an interesting concept. I keep on thinking of a way to put floats on my Ultrastar seeing as how I live next to a Lake, but I dont want to loose the ability to also land on dirt. -------- Ray Riverside County, CA Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140421#140421 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:39:07 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Gas, Ethanol and Mr.Funnel From: "The BaronVonEvil" Hi All, For what ever its worth have you seen the size of an average gascolator? They hold maybe about a half cup of fuel. If you have alot of water in suspension in auto gas it would not take very long for the gascolator to fill with water and then enter the carburetor in any case. I work as a boat mechanic and water in gas is always a problem lurking about for boats. They do offer water seperating fuel fliters that hold about a quart of fuel. The filter is about the size of a Small Block Chevy oil filter. Mercury Marine and Bombardier (Johnson/Evinrude) offer water seperating fuel filter kits for those who are interested. As for water in suspension I dont know for sure if it will pass through the filter. Maybe some test are in order... However they too will fill up with water and then pass it on if you get a bad load of fuel. I dont have any answers for the group other than try and purchase your fuel from a reliable source and check it frequently. Carlos G AKA BaronVonEvil Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140433#140433 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:18:27 AM PST US From: "pat ladd" Subject: Kolb-List: alcohol in fuel Hi All, this seems to be exercising every ones mind at the moment. This from my local Popular Flying Assoc local Strut. Probably what you call the local chapter of the EAA. " Bioethenol which as a replacement for petrol is in the early stages in the UK. Most of it comes from Brazil. 85% bioethanol blend is being pioneered at some supermarkets. A current Safety Information bulletin from Europe has made it likely that motor gasoline will be supplied with an increasing amount of alcohol. The spec. for motor gas. has always permitted the presence of a small amount of alcohol although generally manufacturers have in fact not done so The CAA states that the effect of the new fuel can be Increased likelihood of deterioration of rubber parts and some other materials causing malfunction of the fuel system and increased leakage and fire risk Increases the likelihood of water in the fuel separating out at low temps....increasing carb icing etc. Test as follows. Put fuel in a clear tube. Mark a line on it at the fuel level. Shake vigourously 10/15 secs and let it settle. If the meniscus is still on the line the sample is alc. free If it is higher alc. is present. Of course all you hands on guys knew all that but it is useful info for dumbo`s like me. Cheers Pat ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:52:59 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: VX From: "Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL" << How does one figure VX in a firestar. I need it for the sheet that I will turn in when I have completed my 40 hour test flights. WAG do? Larry >> Larry - A few years ago, Richard Pike posted a very detailed, technically thorough discussion on how to accurately find Vx and Vy for your (any) airplane. It involved creating a lift-over-drag curve and finding climb rates for various airspeeds and power settings. The "knee" in the curve represented one V speed, while the point tangent to that curve that intersects another point on the graph represented the other V speed. (Obviously, this is a VERY generic and non-scientific description of the process. Check the archives for the nitty-gritty details.) I did the flight tests, plotted the data points, and created the curve on my graph. Amazing! I found the exact speeds for Vx and Vy for my Mark-III. (Thanks again, Richard!) Turns out, the two speeds turned out very close to each another for my plane - within five mph. Dennis Kirby Mark-III, 912ul, Powerfin-72 Cedar Crest, NM ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:52:59 AM PST US From: Subject: Kolb-List: Floats Ray, Yes some people charge $2000 - 3000 for floats to fit Lazair/Kolb. And that is cheap compared to some of the other heavier factory built stuff. There are 750 lb floats available used for $600 - 700. I bought mine for $500 broken ( I was in love with plane at that point). I found some real neat wooden floats, Google "Muk Tuk" I think... scratch built or kit. His site is worth reading just for the fun of his mind set. Cheers. drh CYEL ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 12:08:14 PM PST US From: "Larry Cottrell" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: VX ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL" Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2007 11:51 AM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: VX I do apoligise for starting this thread. I read too fast without thinking what they really wanted. The word angle was the only thing that I registered. Of course I started off on a rant about gov. mule muffins, when I should have realized they intended the speed of the VX rather than the angle, since none of the planes that I have ever been in had anything to measure angle of ascent. I am sure they are there, just saying I "ain't" going to have one. VX for my plane is 45 MPH indicated airspeed at the altitude that I fly. I try not to use that "angle" unless the canyon walls are coming up faster than I like. Larry C ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 12:23:42 PM PST US From: N27SB@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Gas, Ethanol and Mr.Funnel In a message dated 10/17/2007 12:39:43 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, grageda@innw.net writes: Mercury Marine and Bombardier (Johnson/Evinrude) offer water seperating fuel filter kits for those who are interested. As for water in suspension I dont know for sure if it will pass through the filter. Maybe some test are in order... This type of filter has a paper type filter and will absorb water and eventually will block fuel. There is a brand that has a clear blue bowl on the bottom with a drain. This type of a filter is very large and heavy for a small plane. Steve Firefly 007/Floats do not archive ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 01:21:28 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Floats From: "jb92563" I also found the Muk-Tuk floats and site stories an enjoyable read even if your not looking for floats. I was thinking of a mono float that might sit between the existing landing gear so I could still land off water. If this drought keeps up I may just use the extended shoreline to take off from as the water level drops and exposes a long beach landing area. -------- Ray Riverside County, CA Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140487#140487 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 02:49:02 PM PST US From: "Richard Pike" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Gas, Ethanol and Mr.Funnel Build your own. Go to the auto parts store and get the biggest filter you can find (to hold as much water as you think you might have) and follow these instructions. http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/pg13.html Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) ----- Original Message ----- From: N27SB@aol.com To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2007 3:23 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Gas, Ethanol and Mr.Funnel In a message dated 10/17/2007 12:39:43 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, grageda@innw.net writes: Mercury Marine and Bombardier (Johnson/Evinrude) offer water seperating fuel filter kits for those who are interested. As for water in suspension I dont know for sure if it will pass through the filter. Maybe some test are in order... This type of filter has a paper type filter and will absorb water and eventually will block fuel. There is a brand that has a clear blue bowl on the bottom with a drain. This type of a filter is very large and heavy for a small plane. Steve Firefly 007/Floats do not archive ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- See w ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 03:02:29 PM PST US From: Larry Bourne Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Gas, Ethanol and Mr.Funnel I think I mentioned quite a while ago that I have a Racor fuel filter/water separator with a blue catch bowl on my boat, since at that time I was burning quite a bit of Baja California Mexican gas in it. Made me nervous, tho' I've never had a problem with a car down there. I would guess - not having it nearby - that the bowl will hold +/- cup. They make many sizes, and mine's fairly compact - about like a fairly good sized coffee cup. Doubt if it weighs more than lb., and you'd hafta have a badly contaminated supply to drown it in one flight. If you're burning ethanol laced fuel, might not be a bad idea. Lar. N27SB@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 10/17/2007 12:39:43 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > grageda@innw.net writes: > > > Mercury Marine and Bombardier (Johnson/Evinrude) offer water > seperating fuel filter kits for those who are interested. As for > water in suspension I dont know for sure if it will pass through > the filter. Maybe some test are in order... > > This type of filter has a paper type filter and will absorb water and > eventually will block fuel. There is a brand that has a clear blue > bowl on the bottom with a drain. This type of a filter is very large > and heavy for a small plane. > > Steve > Firefly 007/Floats > do not archive > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > See w > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 05:23:13 PM PST US From: ElleryWeld@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List:Firestar 2 Hey all on the list lookie here this is a good deal LOW time I know the plane _eBay Motors: Kolb Firestar II Experimental Airplane. No Reserve! (item 320170924039 end time Oct-22-07 18:35:36 PDT)_ (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Kolb-Firestar-II-Experimental-Airplane-No-Reserve_W0QQitemZ320170924039QQihZ011QQca tegoryZ63679QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) Ellery in MAINE building MK3Xtra do not archive ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 05:35:45 PM PST US From: N27SB@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Gas, Ethanol and Mr.Funnel In a message dated 10/17/2007 6:03:18 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, biglar@gogittum.com writes: I think I mentioned quite a while ago that I have a Racor fuel filter/water separator with a blue catch bowl on my boat, Yup that's the one. Works really well but a bit large for a UL. It would be fine on a large Kolb in a Bad fuel area. I use them on all my boats and on my diesel tractor. Steve B Firefly 007/Floats do not archive ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 06:18:59 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Gas, Ethanol and Mr.Funnel From: "Dave Bigelow" The biggest problem I can see with using a gas/ethanol mixture that has picked up a load of water (just short of the point of phase separation) is what happens in the carb bowl. The carb tends to cool more than the fuel tanks because of the vaporization of the fuel as it is atomized and mixed with air. If phase separation (due to cooling) takes place in the carb bowl, it's too late for a filter to do it's work. -------- Dave Bigelow Kamuela, Hawaii FS2, HKS 700E Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140548#140548 ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 07:17:03 PM PST US From: possums Subject: Re: Kolb-List:Firestar 2 At 08:22 PM 10/17/2007, you wrote: >Hey all on the list lookie here this is a good deal LOW time I >know the plane > >eBay >Motors: Kolb Firestar II Experimental Airplane. No Reserve! (item >320170924039 end time Oct-22-07 18:35:36 PDT) > > Ellery in MAINE >building MK3Xtra > >do not archive You are going to see a lot of those type ads as January 31st approaches. ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 08:53:16 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Installing Book binding tape From: herbgh@juno.com All Trying to install gap seals on my Firefly today.. made a mess of the first one...Wondering what the technique could be ? Missing something in my reclining years...Herb ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.