Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:08 AM - Re: Gas, Ethanol and Mr.Funnel (Dave Bigelow)
2. 04:06 AM - Re: Re: Gas, Ethanol and Mr.Funnel (Dana Hague)
3. 05:13 AM - Re: Installing Book binding tape (N27SB@aol.com)
4. 05:24 AM - Re: Re: Gas, Ethanol and Mr.Funnel (Russ Kinne)
5. 05:27 AM - Re: Installing Book binding tape (Michael Sharp)
6. 05:40 AM - Re: VX (Thom Riddle)
7. 05:44 AM - Re: Installing Book binding tape (N27SB@aol.com)
8. 06:05 AM - Re: Installing Book binding tape (Terry Swartz)
9. 06:26 AM - Re: VX (Thom Riddle)
10. 07:36 AM - Re: Installing Book binding tape (herbgh@juno.com)
11. 07:37 AM - Re: Installing Book binding tape (thumb)
12. 07:38 AM - Re: Installing Book binding tape (herbgh@juno.com)
13. 08:44 AM - Re: Installing Book binding tape (N27SB@aol.com)
14. 09:52 AM - Re: Gas, Ethanol and Mr.Funnel (jb92563)
15. 12:48 PM - Re: Re: Gas, Ethanol and Mr.Funnel (Bob Noyer)
16. 01:09 PM - Re: Re: Gas, Ethanol and Mr.Funnel (N27SB@aol.com)
17. 03:26 PM - Re: Re: Gas, Ethanol and Mr.Funnel (Bob Noyer)
18. 05:36 PM - Re: Re: Gas, Ethanol and Mr.Funnel (N27SB@aol.com)
19. 05:37 PM - Re: VX (planecrazzzy)
20. 05:41 PM - Re: Re: Gas, Ethanol and Mr.Funnel (Russ Kinne)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Gas, Ethanol and Mr.Funnel |
How to Tell if you have a load of water in your tank of ethanol/gas mixture:
The is a variant of the olive jar test. Use a jar that is tall and slim, like
an olive jar. Make a mark about one third of the way up from the bottom. Fill
to the mark with water. Add the gas/ethanol mixture from your tank to nearly
fill the jar. Shake vigorously and let the mixture sit for a while. If the
level of water drops below the line, it means the gas/ethanol mixture was not
saturated with water. The unsaturated ethanol absorbs some of the water from
the jar, and becomes saturated. This is good, and means the fuel is OK as long
as you don't let any water get into it.
If there is no change (or very little change) in the level of the water in the
jar, it means the gas/ethanol mixture is probably saturated (or nearly saturated)
with water, and should not be used in your plane.
--------
Dave Bigelow
Kamuela, Hawaii
FS2, HKS 700E
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140591#140591
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Gas, Ethanol and Mr.Funnel |
At 09:18 PM 10/17/2007, Dave Bigelow wrote:
>
>The biggest problem I can see with using a gas/ethanol mixture that has
>picked up a load of water (just short of the point of phase separation) is
>what happens in the carb bowl. The carb tends to cool more than the fuel
>tanks because of the vaporization of the fuel as it is atomized and mixed
>with air. If phase separation (due to cooling) takes place in the carb
>bowl, it's too late for a filter to do it's work.
I think that would be less of a problem. Since the carburetor is mounted
to the engine it sees a fair mount of vibration, which would tend to keep
the fuel / water mixture well agitated and mixed even if it does separate
out of phase. The engine won't starve for fuel though it may run lean. A
bit of water mixed with the gas probably doesn't hurt; it's a big slug of
water coming down the line from the tank and _not_ mixed with gas that
makes things get quiet.
-Dana
--
--
But do you trust the _government_ with semi-automatic assault rifles?
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Installing Book binding tape |
Herb,
After you prepare your overlapped tape (assumed you know how to do this) cut
a short section of this as a test, a few inches long.
>From the top of the wing, apply one of the sticky sides to the top, back
edge of the wing trailing edge.
You will see the whole tape assy above the wing and aileron. with the other
sticky edge towards the rear and pointing up.
Place that aileron FULL down.
Push the tape down through the gap between the wing trailing edge and
aileron leading edge.
>From underneath, push the sticky part on the underside of the aileron
leading edge.
If you have too much or too little tape length left, adjust by changing the
position on the wing (step 1)
Now you will know where to start when applying the tape on the wing.
Go for it with a full length piece.
Goo luck, It is easy once you get the hang of it.
Steve B
Firefly 007/Floats
do not archive
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Gas, Ethanol and Mr.Funnel |
So far no one's mentioned the use of the old standby, the traditional
chamois, to filter fuel. It works and works well, in my experience.
In third-world places; and Mexico; the %$@**&#% locals often pour
5-10 gallons of water into a barrel of fuel to bring the level up.
They get their money and are far away when the engine quits. Nice
guys. Chamois doesn't slow the fueling down too much & will keep the
ol' mill running.
On Oct 18, 2007, at 6:58 AM, Dana Hague wrote:
>
> At 09:18 PM 10/17/2007, Dave Bigelow wrote:
>> <up_country@hotmail.com>
>>
>> The biggest problem I can see with using a gas/ethanol mixture
>> that has picked up a load of water (just short of the point of
>> phase separation) is what happens in the carb bowl. The carb
>> tends to cool more than the fuel tanks because of the vaporization
>> of the fuel as it is atomized and mixed with air. If phase
>> separation (due to cooling) takes place in the carb bowl, it's too
>> late for a filter to do it's work.
>
> I think that would be less of a problem. Since the carburetor is
> mounted to the engine it sees a fair mount of vibration, which
> would tend to keep the fuel / water mixture well agitated and mixed
> even if it does separate out of phase. The engine won't starve for
> fuel though it may run lean. A bit of water mixed with the gas
> probably doesn't hurt; it's a big slug of water coming down the
> line from the tank and _not_ mixed with gas that makes things get
> quiet.
>
> -Dana
> --
> --
> But do you trust the _government_ with semi-automatic assault rifles?
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Installing Book binding tape |
Steve,
For those of us that may be unsure of how to accomplish the overlap, could you
detail that procedure also?
Thanks,
Mike
N27SB@aol.com wrote:
Herb,
After you prepare your overlapped tape (assumed you know how to do this) cut
a short section of this as a test, a few inches long.
From the top of the wing, apply one of the sticky sides to the top, back edge
of the wing trailing edge.
You will see the whole tape assy above the wing and aileron. with the other sticky
edge towards the rear and pointing up.
Place that aileron FULL down.
Push the tape down through the gap between the wing trailing edge and aileron
leading edge.
From underneath, push the sticky part on the underside of the aileron leading
edge.
If you have too much or too little tape length left, adjust by changing the position
on the wing (step 1)
Now you will know where to start when applying the tape on the wing.
Go for it with a full length piece.
Goo luck, It is easy once you get the hang of it.
Steve B
Firefly 007/Floats
do not archive
---------------------------------
See w
Message 6
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On April 5, 2007 I posted a spreadsheet showing the approximate relationship among
the V-speeds on light aircraft. If you have spreadsheet software you can view
it and use it.
If you don't you can get a good estimate of the Vx speed for your airplane if you
know the clean stall speed (Vs1) and max continuous cruise speed (Vh). Subtract
the stall speed from the max. continuous stall speed and multiply that number
by 14% and add it back to the stall speed.
Example:
Vh = 85 mph
Vs1 = 35 mph
Vh - Vs1 = 85 - 35 = 50
50 x 14% = 7
7 + 35 = 42
42 mph would be a good estimate for Vx for this airplane.
--------
Thom in Buffalo
N221FA Allegro 2000 912UL
N197BG FS1/447
--------------------
"Setting an example is not the main means of influencing another, it is the
only means."
Albert Einstein
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140602#140602
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Installing Book binding tape |
In a message dated 10/18/2007 8:28:00 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
kolbdriver@mlsharp.com writes:
For those of us that may be unsure of how to accomplish the overlap, could
you detail that procedure also?
Thanks,
Mike
Sure,
I use the kitchen counter top. (Wives and mothers love this)
Take a length of tape, (more than you need) and lay it sticky side up.
Secure it by taping each end down using tape.
Lay a second piece down over it and leave about a half inch exposed along
the full length.
About a half inch of the top piece will stick to the counter top.
Trim each end to achieve the desired length.
Carefully carry it out to the plane and apply.
Remove all traces of airplane activity from the kitchen lest all Hell break
loose.
Steve B
Firefly 007/Floats
do not archive
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Installing Book binding tape |
Here is the easy way. Forget the tape overlap. Get some 4 inch wide tape,
stick it on the bottom of wing-flap, sprinkle baby powder on the exposed
adhesive. Your done.
On 10/18/07, Michael Sharp <kolbdriver@mlsharp.com> wrote:
>
> Steve,
>
> For those of us that may be unsure of how to accomplish the overlap, could
> you detail that procedure also?
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>
> *N27SB@aol.com* wrote:
>
> Herb,
> After you prepare your overlapped tape (assumed you know how to do this)
> cut a short section of this as a test, a few inches long.
>
> From the top of the wing, apply one of the sticky sides to the top, back
> edge of the wing trailing edge.
> You will see the whole tape assy above the wing and aileron. with the
> other sticky edge towards the rear and pointing up.
>
> Place that aileron FULL down.
>
> Push the tape down through the gap between the wing trailing edge and
> aileron leading edge.
>
> From underneath, push the sticky part on the underside of the aileron
> leading edge.
>
> If you have too much or too little tape length left, adjust by changing
> the position on the wing (step 1)
>
> Now you will know where to start when applying the tape on the wing.
>
> Go for it with a full length piece.
>
> Goo luck, It is easy once you get the hang of it.
> Steve B
> Firefly 007/Floats
> do not archive
>
>
> ------------------------------
> See w
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Message 9
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While I'm at it I figure it wouldn't hurt to attach a jpg image of the approximate
v-speed relationships to Vh and Vs1. See attached image and use following
formula for approximate V-speed of interest.
R = Vh - Vs1
where
R = speed range
Vh = max. continuous airspeed
Vs1 = stall speed without flaps
General formula or approximate V-speeds:
R x %(V speed of interest) + Vs1 = approximate V speed of interest
--------
Thom in Buffalo
N221FA Allegro 2000 912UL
N197BG FS1/447
--------------------
"Setting an example is not the main means of influencing another, it is the
only means."
Albert Einstein
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140609#140609
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/v_speed_relationships_167.jpg
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Installing Book binding tape |
Steve
Should have made myself more clear....no problem with application,,,the
problem is in handling..at one time or the other both hands are stuck to
the tape.. when I get a suitable piece layed flat on a table, the
overlap piece is just very difficult to place into position..static
electricity etc.. once it sticks--you are stuck! :-)
Anyone tried straight pins to hold the first piece in position? Herb
On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 08:11:40 EDT N27SB@aol.com writes:
Herb,
After you prepare your overlapped tape (assumed you know how to do this)
cut a short section of this as a test, a few inches long.
>From the top of the wing, apply one of the sticky sides to the top, back
edge of the wing trailing edge.
You will see the whole tape assy above the wing and aileron. with the
other sticky edge towards the rear and pointing up.
Place that aileron FULL down.
Push the tape down through the gap between the wing trailing edge and
aileron leading edge.
>From underneath, push the sticky part on the underside of the aileron
leading edge.
If you have too much or too little tape length left, adjust by changing
the position on the wing (step 1)
Now you will know where to start when applying the tape on the wing.
Go for it with a full length piece.
Goo luck, It is easy once you get the hang of it.
Steve B
Firefly 007/Floats
do not archive
See w
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Installing Book binding tape |
Well here is my advise, if you want to do it right forget about
the book binding stuff and use 3 inch finishing tape. I have done both
and the finishing tape is easy to do. Ten you paint it with a brush. I
replaced the book binding stuff twice on mine before I used the
finishing tape.If you want to know how to do it get with me off line.lt
is easy.
My opinion
Bill Futrell
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Terry Swartz
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 8:57 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Installing Book binding tape
Here is the easy way. Forget the tape overlap. Get some 4 inch wide
tape, stick it on the bottom of wing-flap, sprinkle baby powder on the
exposed adhesive. Your done.
On 10/18/07, Michael Sharp <kolbdriver@mlsharp.com> wrote:
Steve,
For those of us that may be unsure of how to accomplish the overlap,
could you detail that procedure also?
Thanks,
Mike
N27SB@aol.com wrote:
Herb,
After you prepare your overlapped tape (assumed you know how to do
this) cut a short section of this as a test, a few inches long.
From the top of the wing, apply one of the sticky sides to the
top, back edge of the wing trailing edge.
You will see the whole tape assy above the wing and aileron. with
the other sticky edge towards the rear and pointing up.
Place that aileron FULL down.
Push the tape down through the gap between the wing trailing edge
and aileron leading edge.
From underneath, push the sticky part on the underside of the
aileron leading edge.
If you have too much or too little tape length left, adjust by
changing the position on the wing (step 1)
Now you will know where to start when applying the tape on the
wing.
Go for it with a full length piece.
Goo luck, It is easy once you get the hang of it.
Steve B
Firefly 007/Floats
do not archive
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
See w
--
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Installing Book binding tape |
Steve
That is what I was looking for...never occurred to "frugal" Herb to
waste an inch or so on either end! :-) Thanks....Herb
On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 08:43:17 EDT N27SB@aol.com writes:
In a message dated 10/18/2007 8:28:00 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
kolbdriver@mlsharp.com writes:
For those of us that may be unsure of how to accomplish the overlap,
could you detail that procedure also?
Thanks,
Mike
Sure,
I use the kitchen counter top. (Wives and mothers love this)
Take a length of tape, (more than you need) and lay it sticky side up.
Secure it by taping each end down using tape.
Lay a second piece down over it and leave about a half inch exposed along
the full length.
About a half inch of the top piece will stick to the counter top.
Trim each end to achieve the desired length.
Carefully carry it out to the plane and apply.
Remove all traces of airplane activity from the kitchen lest all Hell
break loose.
Steve B
Firefly 007/Floats
do not archive
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Installing Book binding tape |
Herb, Yell if you have any questions. You can also mark the countertop with
a dry erase marker to aid in positioning the tape. That first piece is hard to
see.
There are many ways to do the gap seal.
This method was Bryan Melborn's.
IMHO, This is the nicest looking and it is very durable unless your plane
sits out 24/7.
It is almost invisible unless you really look.
You can remove it by using a little heat from a hair dryer(Yup, you guessed
it,From the girlfriend's bathroom) and clean up with googone. It does not harm
Polytone in my experience. Test yours.
Steve
Firefly 007/Floats
do not archive
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Gas, Ethanol and Mr.Funnel |
Taking the Olive jar test one step further:
Put some fuel in the olive jar and let it sit at room temp for a while(Closed lid).
Mark the level of water if there is any(Probably not)
Put in in the fridge for a couple hours and then check to see if there is any more
water settled out.
If so, you can expect that water will separate in your fuel at altitude if it gets
colder and you better have a way of keeping it out of your carb so you don't
get icing or flameouts.
--------
Ray
Riverside County, CA
Do Not Archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140639#140639
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Gas, Ethanol and Mr.Funnel |
My experiences with carb icing is limited to GA. Icing usually occurs
in the throat/venturi where the temperatures are lower/lower
pressure. Don't think carb bowl could freeze unless a lot of water
and bowl temp was at freezing. Never heard of bowl freezing, BIMBWA
regards,
Bob N. FireFly 070 Old Kolb
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/ronoy/
do not archive
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| Subject: | Re: Gas, Ethanol and Mr.Funnel |
In a message dated 10/18/2007 3:49:22 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
a58r@verizon.net writes:
BIMBWA
Got me Bob, what's a BIMBOWAWA
Steve
Firefly 007/Floats
do not archive
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| Subject: | Re: Gas, Ethanol and Mr.Funnel |
But(t) I May Be Wrong Again=BIMBWA
BIMBOWAWA= getting caught in the next stall...in the ladies room
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Gas, Ethanol and Mr.Funnel |
In a message dated 10/18/2007 6:26:28 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
a58r@verizon.net writes:
BIMBOWAWA= getting caught in the next stall...in the ladies room
Thanks Bob, I thought it meant that your cheap date needed her beverage
freshened.
Steve
really, do not archive
Message 19
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Hi Bob,
Isn't it all in the book 90-89A....
Seems to me that it's figured from the stall speed....
To get you in the "ballpark".....
Like you said....you write what you want...
Gotta Fly...
Mike & "Jaz" in MN - Vx 40 , Vy 50 (FSII)
slyck(at)frontiernet.net wrote:
> For EAB a logbook entry is all that is required. Nothing to send in.
> You can write anything you please for those V speeds.
>
> BB do not archive
--------
.
.
.
.
.
Do Not Archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140703#140703
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Gas, Ethanol and Mr.Funnel |
But I May Be OtherWise A Wise Arse?????
do not archive -- please!
On Oct 18, 2007, at 8:29 PM, N27SB@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 10/18/2007 6:26:28 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> a58r@verizon.net writes:
>
> BIMBOWAWA= getting caught in the next stall...in the ladies room
>
> Thanks Bob, I thought it meant that your cheap date needed her
> beverage freshened.
>
> Steve
> really, do not archive
>
>
> www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List _-
> ===========================================================
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