---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 10/20/07: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:41 AM - Re: Re: Gas, Ethanol and Mr.Funnel (Dana Hague) 2. 05:50 AM - Re: Gas, Ethanol and Mr.Funnel (Jim ODay) 3. 06:24 AM - Re: Re: Gas, Ethanol and Mr.Funnel (gary aman) 4. 07:26 AM - Re: Gas, Ethanol and Mr.Funnel (JetPilot) 5. 07:30 AM - Re: Installing Book binding tape (JetPilot) 6. 10:02 AM - Re: Re: Gas, Ethanol and Mr.Funnel (Jack B. Hart) 7. 10:58 AM - Re: Re: Installing Book binding tape (N27SB@aol.com) 8. 12:12 PM - Re: Gas, Ethanol and Mr.Funnel (henry.voris) 9. 01:55 PM - Re: Re: Gas, Ethanol and Mr.Funnel (Jack B. Hart) 10. 04:59 PM - Re: Re: Installing Book binding tape (possums) 11. 06:01 PM - Re: Re: Floats (malcolmbru@aol.com) 12. 06:05 PM - Re south Mississippi light aircraft fly in (malcolmbru@aol.com) 13. 07:18 PM - Re: Re: Floats (N27SB@aol.com) 14. 07:31 PM - Re: Re: Floats (Larry Bourne) 15. 08:01 PM - Re: Re: Floats (chris davis) 16. 08:40 PM - Lurker on the loose (Robert Dresden) 17. 10:01 PM - Mass Inspection (Wade Lawicki) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:41:54 AM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Gas, Ethanol and Mr.Funnel At 11:52 PM 10/19/2007, JetPilot wrote: >...Rotax recommends auto gas. Avgas causes lead deposits, fouling, and >all sorts of problems in engines not designed for it. I would not run >100LL in my 912-S even if it were the same price... I've been running avgas in my Cuyuna for the sole reason that it keeps better. For an airplane flown only occasionally during the colder months this can be a significant factor. Haven't had any problems with it and neither did the previous owner, though the engine doesn't have that many hours on it. Come next spring, I may switch to auto gas, but then again I may not. Interestingly, the Cuyuna manual says, "Do not use aviation gasoline as it may upset carburetion." Not sure what's up with that unless the jetting would be different, though I'm not sure why. -Dana -- -- But do you trust the _government_ with semi-automatic assault rifles? ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:50:38 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Gas, Ethanol and Mr.Funnel From: "Jim ODay" Your points are fine, I do not disagree. If your Rotax 912 manual says NO 100LL I would not put it in either. I am not saying auto gas is bad, just be extra careful when you are flying with it. Inspect for water and dirt, filter, and do not rely on the octane labels. You may be getting ethanol or methanol and it may or may not be labeled on the pump. It varies state to state. If the gas looks cloudy at all, don't use it even if you filter the heck out of it. Winter gas is different than summer gas, California has about 7 varieties of gasoline, you will get Ethanol in MN and the pumps are not marked. I am aware of the lead deposit and plugs. I do not know if Seafoam will help this :D I WOULD be fine with regular use of auto gas if I knew the pedigree of the product and the condition of the tank. Short of that, I have other things to worry about. Plus they only sell 100LL at the field. This is reality; We have a customers using "blank" filters. They are filter cans w/o the element. Why? They have dirty tanks and it is a maintenance headache that requires frequent changing. So they just pass the problem off to the customers. Their stores are not dirty looking either, nice modern operations. Don't pour it into your plane w/o doing your own QC checks. I guess I worry about fuel because I see it every day. I suppose that are many other things I could add to the list if I was aware of the risks. Like it has been said many times, advice here is worth way you pay for it. Fly safe Kolb Buddies. do not archive -------- Jim O'Day Fargo, ND Firestar II Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140864#140864 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:24:58 AM PST US From: gary aman Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Gas, Ethanol and Mr.Funnel I'm not too sure that 100LL is all that harmful.it was the fuel used to break in my 503 and was used for the next 105 hrs.It run 50 degrees cooler on exhaust temp over car gas,but leaves a white bloom, probably lead,on the ground electrode.Gas lines lived longer with av gas over car gas.I've mixed them frequently on long cross country flights.there is now 550hrs on the 503 with first de-carbon at 475 hrs. Jim ODay wrote: > > > My business is fuel storage tanks. I will not mess with "pump gas" for my Kolb, or any plane for that matter. You really do not know what you are getting, I have been in this business for many years, I know. > > Your experience with fuel tanks is actually working against you... You are concentrating so much on one small detail , that you are missing the big picture. In the 912-S, Rotax recommends auto gas. Avgas causes lead deposits, fouling, and all sorts of problems in engines not designed for it. I would not run 100LL in my 912-S even if it were the same price. It is also possible to have prblems in your 2 stroke due to fouling of the plugs and rings with 100LL. Millions of cars run on auto gas each day, and we dont see hundreds of them on the side of the road each day due to fuel contamination. That really puts holes in your claims of how bad and dirty auto gas is... You need to step back, stop staring at dirty gas tanks all day, and look at the big picture. I run auto gas, and my fuel filter and carbs are so clean that I could drink out of them. You are so concentrated on one detail you are missing more important things. Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140846#140846 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:26:50 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Gas, Ethanol and Mr.Funnel From: "JetPilot" I would not have that much of a problem putting 100LL Avgas in a 2 stroke, sometimes on a cross country that is all that is available and you have no choice. A simple changing of plugs and decarbon can fix any problems of lead in the 2 stroke. In the Rotax 912, I would have to change to a non synthetic oil which does not protect the engine nearly as much, and then change it more frequently to try to keep the lead deposits under control. Even then there is still a problem with lead deposits everywhere, which is why auto gas is much better in the four stroke 912. I only buy Shell V-Power Premium gasoline, it does not have methanol in the vast majority of the states. Again on cross country flights many people use 100LL Avgas because there is no choice, and it works fine, but it is only recommended when no other option exists. My friend at the airport has a 20 gallon red plastic tank set up with a hand crank pump and a large industrial cartridge type filter to clean his auto gas. He said it only cost him like 150 bucks to build. This setup would clean the gas and separate water much better than the MR Funnel. If one were very worried about the problems Jim was talking about with car gas, this would be a simple solution, and much better than running 100LL in an engine not designed for it. Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140873#140873 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:30:43 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Installing Book binding tape From: "JetPilot" What is finishing tape and where do you get it ??? Also, where do you guys get the book binding tape ? Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140876#140876 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:02:32 AM PST US From: "Jack B. Hart" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Gas, Ethanol and Mr.Funnel Jim, I worry about getting bad fuel at the filling station. Since I have aged a little, I use 2.5 gallon cans to refuel the FireFly. I have four of them so that I can purchase 10 gallons at a time. The nice thing about these small cans is that it is very easy to look into the can to see if there is any water or other impurities in the fuel. And it is very easy to prevent contaminants from entering the FireFly tank. I never completely empty the can into the FireFly tank. This captures the crud in the re filler can. When I am going to refill all of the cans, I check for water, etc. before I put the oil in the can. If there is a little bit in the bottom of the can, I don't worry about it. If the build up of water is substantial, I will empty the can out dry. Otherwise, I use the gas in the bottom of the can to dilute the oil before refilling the can at the filling station. I remove the FireFly gas tank and dump it every spring. I never find more than a nickel volume of water in the tank. When I hangared in the Mississippi River bottoms, I kept my tank topped off. But here in Winchester, IN, I only top up after 2.5 gallons have been run out of the tank. In checking the Bing carburetor flow bowl, I have never found any water. So far I have had good luck. Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:58:54 AM PST US From: N27SB@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Installing Book binding tape In a message dated 10/20/2007 10:31:25 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, orcabonita@hotmail.com writes: Also, where do you guys get the book binding tape ? Mike There are many sources on the Web, I think John H posted one on this thread. I buy mine from TNK. About the same price and Travis keeps it in stock. Steve B Firefly 007/Floats do not archive ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:12:20 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Gas, Ethanol and Mr.Funnel From: "henry.voris" Jack, Does the fuel you use contain ethanol? If so what % ? Thanks -------- Henry Firefly Five-Charlie-Bravo Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140899#140899 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:55:41 PM PST US From: "Jack B. Hart" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Gas, Ethanol and Mr.Funnel At 12:11 PM 10/20/07 -0700, you wrote: > >Jack, > >Does the fuel you use contain ethanol? > >If so what % ? > >Thanks > >-------- >Henry >Firefly Five-Charlie-Bravo > >Do Not Archive > Henry, So far I have avoided the use of gasoline with ethanol. But, I believe, it will be mandatory to use ethanol in Indiana starting New Years Day, 2008 in Indiana. I do not believe there is a greater chance of getting water in the gasoline than at present, because the ethanol is mixed with pipeline gasoline in/at the truck filling park. Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:59:58 PM PST US From: possums Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Installing Book binding tape At 10:30 AM 10/20/2007, you wrote: > >What is finishing tape and where do you get it ??? > >Also, where do you guys get the book binding tape ? > >Mike This was put on with "finishing tape" and painted, I forget what size I used. All the aircraft fabric places sell it where ever you get your covering supplies. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:01:27 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Floats From: malcolmbru@aol.com in the Zenair builders guid they sugest something diferent .. they also sugest a special rivet? from Granger?? malcolm? michigan -----Original Message----- From: N27SB@aol.com Sent: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 10:52 am Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Floats In a message dated 10/19/2007 11:44:20 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, jb92563@yahoo.com writes: How did you seal the rivet seams on your aluminum floats? Ray,? I would use a product called 3M 5200.? Most boat stores sell It ? Steve Firefly 007/Floats do not archive See w ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:05:00 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re south Mississippi light aircraft fly in From: malcolmbru@aol.com it was a great time today at Ronnies fly in I am sorry I hade to leave early?? malcolm michigan -----Original Message----- From: jb92563 Sent: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 10:43 am Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Floats How did you seal the rivet seams on your aluminum floats? I'm going to try designing a single float for the Kolb Ultrastar if possible to keep the weight light. Have not decided on a material....have to do the basic shape configuration first to see what is feasable. -------- Ray Riverside County, CA Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140769#140769 ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:18:29 PM PST US From: N27SB@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Floats In a message dated 10/20/2007 9:02:04 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, malcolmbru@aol.com writes: in the Zenair builders guid they sugest something diferent .. they also sugest a special rivet from Granger malcolm michigan Don't know about that, But, Can-Zac and Czech Float both have built the Zenair design and both use 3M 5200. I currently fly the Czech Float and am waiting for a set from Can-Zac. Czech Float has tried 2 part urethanes but the last time I talked to them they went back to 3M. Steve B Firefly 007/Floats do not archive ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:31:20 PM PST US From: Larry Bourne Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Floats You're right, Steve. 5200 and its' competitor, SikaFlex, are waterproof and probably the strongest and most flexible adhesives I've ever seen. Used them a lot on boats in another life, and when you stick something with one of 'em you'd best want it to stay stuck, 'cause you're not gonna get it apart again. There /is/ a solvent, but it's mostly for cleanup. Doesn't penetrate joints very well, and takes a loooong time. I saw a documentary on stickums the other night and they made a big deal out of another 3M product.......a tape called, uh, RBX ?? RHB ?? Something like that, and it's amazing stuff. Lar. N27SB@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 10/20/2007 9:02:04 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > malcolmbru@aol.com writes: > > in the Zenair builders guid they sugest something diferent .. they > also sugest a special rivet from Granger malcolm michigan > > Don't know about that, But, Can-Zac and Czech Float both have built > the Zenair design and both use 3M 5200. I currently fly the Czech > Float and am waiting for a set from Can-Zac. Czech Float has tried 2 > part urethanes but the last time I talked to them they went back to 3M. > > Steve B > Firefly 007/Floats > do not archive > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > See w > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:01:04 PM PST US From: chris davis Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Floats Steve , I'm all behind 5300 I was a commercial fisherman for 31 years and we all used 5200 for all kinds of waterproof connections it will fasten an d have more strength that what ever you are fastening , be it fiberglass to wood or steel to fiberglass the 5200 would be the strongest component in a ny joint always something else would come apart before the 5200 . Chris =0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: "N27SB@aol.com" =0ATo: kolb-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 10:1 7:51 PM=0ASubject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Floats=0A=0A=0AIn a message dated 10/ 20/2007 9:02:04 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, malcolmbru@aol.com writes:=0Ain the Zenair builders guid they sugest something diferent .. they also suges t a special rivet from Granger malcolm michigan =0A=0A=0ADon't know abo ut that, But, Can-Zac and Czech Float both have built the Zenair design and both use 3M 5200. I currently fly the Czech Float and am waiting for a se t from Can-Zac. Czech Float has tried 2 part urethanes but the last time I talked to them they went back to 3M. =0A =0ASteve B=0AFirefly 007/Floats=0A ===========0A=0A_______________________________________ ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:40:50 PM PST US From: "Robert Dresden" Subject: Kolb-List: Lurker on the loose Kolb Folks, My name is Bob Dresden , and I've lurked for years. Short story. Sometime in the mid 80's I pinned a picture of a Firestar to my bulletin board. I always said...Someday I'll have one. Life happens, it ain't been easy. Found this forum in the early days, been here since, but Someday. Met a few folks at MV as I passed through, Loved those airplanes...Someday. Well, it's Someday! I believe I've talked Lucien into selling his, and it's a nice machine (I Think). I'm a VN Vet, living off the gov, and I never thought this could happen. I feel like a kid at Christmas, watching it Snow like mad and thinking of the adventures ahead of me. I tell ya, God loves me, ( and you too). Now, the rest of the story. I have to tote this craft from Santa Fe, NM to Steamboat Springs, Co. Right up the backbone of America. High passes, wicked winds, roads ??? I plan to pull the wings and carry them on a pickup rack, stacked together, padded and shrink wrapped. Comments? I don't want to haul a lite wt. billboard down the road. What I need to know is the total chord w/ailerons so as to modify the rack accordingly. I believe it's a 98 model Firestar II. I've already ordered a Chile Vest. Bdres, in stormy Colo do not archive ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:01:03 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Mass Inspection From: "Wade Lawicki" 12 more can join the group of Legal E-LSA today , including 4- trikes, 7- fixed wings, and 1- powered parachute. All in one day and not the painful experience some have had. Group rate was $250 each, about 100-150 less than the going rate here in Tn. All passed with no hassles and everyone left legal and happy :D Fly Safe , Wade Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140964#140964 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.