Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:16 AM - Re: patching pinholes in fabirc (Tony Oldman)
2. 06:09 AM - Re: Ivo Props (lucien)
3. 06:21 AM - Re: Re: Ivo Props (Richard Girard)
4. 06:32 AM - Re: Ivo Props (robert bean)
5. 07:06 AM - Re: Ivo Props (lucien)
6. 08:25 AM - Re: patching pinholes in fabirc (jb92563)
7. 10:09 AM - Re: patching pinholes in fabirc (Vic Gibson)
8. 10:21 AM - Re: Re: Ivo Props (Eugene Zimmerman)
9. 11:42 AM - Re: patching pinholes in fabirc (jb92563)
10. 11:43 AM - flying VG's (Larry Cottrell)
11. 12:05 PM - Re: Re: Ivo Props (Robert Laird)
12. 12:48 PM - Re: Ivo Props (lucien)
13. 01:21 PM - Re: flying VG's (jb92563)
14. 01:48 PM - Re: flying VG's (jb92563)
15. 02:13 PM - Re: Re: Ivo Props (gary aman)
16. 02:26 PM - Re: Re: Ivo Props (Dana Hague)
17. 02:28 PM - Powerfin Props (Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL)
18. 02:52 PM - Re: flying VG's (lcottrell)
19. 05:02 PM - Re: Re: Ivo Props (herbgh@juno.com)
20. 05:17 PM - Re: flying VG's (John Hauck)
21. 06:46 PM - I really love Ivo Props, now (Richard Girard)
22. 07:18 PM - Re: flying VG's (R. Hankins)
23. 08:06 PM - Firestar II - Legal now (John H Murphy)
24. 09:11 PM - Re: Re: flying VG's (Larry Cottrell)
25. 09:34 PM - Re: Firestar II - Legal now (R. Hankins)
26. 10:02 PM - Re: I really love Ivo Props, now (R. Hankins)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: patching pinholes in fabirc |
Put the patch on the inside if you can. A lot less noticeable and not
subject to wind buffeting so the edges shouldn't fray
Down under
----- Original Message -----
From: chris davis
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 2:15 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: patching pinholes in fabirc
Jimmy I am elderly ,56 but an 1/8 inch hole I would ignore but if you
cant get angood pair of pinking shears and cut a patch out of poly-fiber
and put it on to cover the hole , all depending on what finish coat you
have on your aircraft , I had my KXP on floats and came to the spot on
the pond where I had my aircraft tied down and found a flock of crows
pecking holes in the wings , about tswentyfive I had A LOT OF SMALL
PATCHES ON MY WINGS UNTIL i SOLD IT two YEARS AND 125 HRS LATER. Sorry I
didn't realize I was yelling . Chris
----- Original Message ----
From: Jimmy Young <jdy100@comcast.net>
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 8:33:29 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: patching pinholes in fabirc
Any suggestions for the best way to patch small (1/8" max dia.)
pinholes in Polyfiber fabric? I have a couple on the underside of my
fuselage just aft of the nose cone.
Jimmy Young
FS II, N7043P
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City;TX;77459 LABEL;HOME;ENCODING=QUOTED-PRINTABLE:3610
Cobleskill=0AMissouri City, TX 77459
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24/10/2007 2:31 p.m.
Message 2
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My .02 on the IVO,
First off, Do NOT run the IVO in 2 blades without the bumper blocks... do NOT ask
my why I know this is extremely hazardous even with the bolts torqued down
properly..... I'm surprised that IVO said this was ok. are you sure you dialed
the correct number? ;)
If you must run it without them, AT LEAST put the two bolts in and washer up the
gap with large area AN washers.
NO, the assembly is NOT strong enough with only the blade roots securing the works,
the hub must squish on something all the way around with all 6 bolts installed....
As for the Powerfin, I've run several different sizes on various planes along with
the warp drive, IVO's and a couple different woodies. Generally, the Powerfin
gives the best thrust, especially the F model, due to the somewhat higher
blade area than the other props. But, also because of the larger blade area, it
usually runs at a lower AOA than other thinner bladed props like the IVO and
warp drive, so it doesn't work as well on a faster plane unless you add more
pitch or reduce diameter.
On a slower plane like a trike with a single-surface wing, there's no better choice
than the powerfin, IMO.
As for the warp drive, I'm now a complete warp drive believer. My FS II (or soon
to be Bob's FS II) has a 68" warp drive on it and it's the best overall performer
I've tried on the plane (I've tried the recommended 68" 3 blade F model
powerfin on it and, while it had slightly better thrust than the warp, it unloads
more at faster speeds than the warp does).
My titan has an IVO medium on it and it's ok. Not completely wonderful but not
bad either.
As for the larger Kolbs running the 912, it sounds like the warp drive in at least
70" is the best compromise...
LS
--------
LS
FS II
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=141926#141926
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Lucien, Unless someone at 1-800-367-7767 gets a charge out of answering the
phone, "Ivo Prop", and somehow knew it was Ron I was going to be asking for,
I'm pretty sure it was the right number.
Rick
On 10/26/07, lucien <lstavenhagen@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> My .02 on the IVO,
>
> First off, Do NOT run the IVO in 2 blades without the bumper blocks... do
> NOT ask my why I know this is extremely hazardous even with the bolts
> torqued down properly..... I'm surprised that IVO said this was ok. are you
> sure you dialed the correct number? ;)
>
> If you must run it without them, AT LEAST put the two bolts in and washer
> up the gap with large area AN washers.
>
> NO, the assembly is NOT strong enough with only the blade roots securing
> the works, the hub must squish on something all the way around with all 6
> bolts installed....
>
> As for the Powerfin, I've run several different sizes on various planes
> along with the warp drive, IVO's and a couple different woodies. Generally,
> the Powerfin gives the best thrust, especially the F model, due to the
> somewhat higher blade area than the other props. But, also because of the
> larger blade area, it usually runs at a lower AOA than other thinner bladed
> props like the IVO and warp drive, so it doesn't work as well on a faster
> plane unless you add more pitch or reduce diameter.
> On a slower plane like a trike with a single-surface wing, there's no
> better choice than the powerfin, IMO.
>
> As for the warp drive, I'm now a complete warp drive believer. My FS II
> (or soon to be Bob's FS II) has a 68" warp drive on it and it's the best
> overall performer I've tried on the plane (I've tried the recommended 68" 3
> blade F model powerfin on it and, while it had slightly better thrust than
> the warp, it unloads more at faster speeds than the warp does).
>
> My titan has an IVO medium on it and it's ok. Not completely wonderful but
> not bad either.
>
> As for the larger Kolbs running the 912, it sounds like the warp drive in
> at least 70" is the best compromise...
>
> LS
>
> --------
> LS
> FS II
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=141926#141926
>
>
Message 4
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I have most of my Kolb time with a 3 blade 65" Powerfin. The hub is
very well designed
and repitching is easy. Due to a suspected harmonic problem
attributable to the 3 cyl suzuki
I have switched to a backup 2 blade 70" Warpdrive. My impressions
for comparison
are of the apples to oranges variety because of the different size
and configuration.
The Powerfin has a wider high thrust blade but suffers with a drag
penalty and a narrower
speed range per pitch setting. The Warpdrive has less drag (free
horsepower) and
longer legs. I get more top end and still have great climb rpm.
Both are excellent props.
BTW, I stuck one of those Balance Masters contraptions behind the
prop and it seems to
alleviate a lot of the "rum-rum". Time will tell.
BB
Message 5
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jindoguy(at)gmail.com wrote:
> Lucien, Unless someone at 1-800-367-7767 gets a charge out of answering the phone,
"Ivo Prop", and somehow knew it was Ron I was going to be asking for, I'm
pretty sure it was the right number.
>
> Rick
>
Well regardless of what they told you, the hub if run with 2 blades and no other
support in the gaps WILL dramatically increase the likelihood of a very expensive
and possibly dangerous accident.
Again, the hub secured only with 2 blade roots is NOT strong enough to hold together
reliably under the normal conditions of usage in flight. Do NOT try to fix
this by torquing the remaining bolts down more than 200 in/lbs, or by installing
and torquing the other two bolts with no support in the gap!
Again, do NOT ask me why I know this, tho I will merely say that I've verified
this danger first-hand!
You can correct this partially, like I said, with stacks of wide AN washers as
thick as the gap secured by the other two bolts to the specified torque (200 in/lbs)
as a field repair. But the overall strength of the hub is still compromised
somewhat and it really shouldn't be run like that all the time.
The bumbers, though, do result in a fully secured hub with no worries and the prop
works great thus properly assembled...
Caveat Emptor!
LS
--------
LS
FS II
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=141935#141935
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| Subject: | Re: patching pinholes in fabirc |
I'm doing those same kind of repairs right now.
I just cut little circular penny sized patches,
-Dab some MEK around the hole to ensure a clean surface to adhere with,
- wait till the MEK has completely dried and apply Poly-Brush and stick the patch
down working the adhesive into the weave.
- Shoot some color, or I use yellow Fabric for my yellow plane and skip the color.
If you can apply the patch from inside its all that much better looking.
NOTE: MEK will dissolve/soften every thing(Poly-Brush, Poly-Spray and Poly-tone)
except the fabric so use sparingly by dabbing a little on...don't rub as it
will smear the dissolved paint.
--------
Ray
Riverside County, CA
Do Not Archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=141943#141943
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: patching pinholes in fabirc |
All patches, large or small, seems to look nicer and are tighter when an
iron is used after the poly tak is applied and before the poly brush and
poly tone.
-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Oldman
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 1:15 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: patching pinholes in fabirc
Put the patch on the inside if you can. A lot less noticeable and not sub
ject to wind buffeting so the edges shouldn't fray
Down under
----- Original Message -----
From: chris davis
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 2:15 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: patching pinholes in fabirc
Jimmy I am elderly ,56 but an 1/8 inch hole I would ignore but if you c
ant get angood pair of pinking shears and cut a patch out of poly-fiber a
nd put it on to cover the hole , all depending on what finish coat you ha
ve on your aircraft , I had my KXP on floats and came to the spot on the
pond where I had my aircraft tied down and found a flock of crows pecking
holes in the wings , about tswentyfive I had A LOT OF SMALL PATCHES ON M
Y WINGS UNTIL i SOLD IT two YEARS AND 125 HRS LATER. Sorry I didn't reali
ze I was yelling . Chris
----- Original Message ----
From: Jimmy Young <jdy100@comcast.net>
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 8:33:29 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: patching pinholes in fabirc
Any suggestions for the best way to patch small (1/8" max dia.) pinhole
s in Polyfiber fabric? I have a couple on the underside of my fuselage j
ust aft of the nose cone.
Jimmy Young
FS II, N7043P
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 N:;Jimmy Young FN:Jimmy Young TEL;HOME;VOICE:28
1.499.6298 ADR;HOME:;;3610 Cobleskill;Missouri City;TX;77459 LABEL;HOME;E
NCODING=QUOTED-PRINTABLE:3610 Cobleskill=0AMissouri City, TX 774
59 EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:jdy100@comcast.net REV:20071026T003329Z END:VCARD
______o.com
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24/10/2007 2:31 p.m.
Message 8
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IVO users,
In my opinion Lucien is right about the risks involved in running an
IVO without the filler blocks installed.
Here is why I believe it is unsafe.
When the bolts are tightened the two bolts without the spacer blocks
will cause the aluminum faceplate to warp. This distortion of the
face plate compromises the "uniform" clamping pressure on the prop
blade root. As Lucien said this distortion can be prevented by
stacking washers of the same thickness as the blade root.
If you do decide to run a two blade IVO without the spacer blocks or
washers, do your lawyer a favor. Make certain you first get a signed
approval document from IVO .
Gene
On Oct 26, 2007, at 10:05 AM, lucien wrote:
>
>
> jindoguy(at)gmail.com wrote:
>> Lucien, Unless someone at 1-800-367-7767 gets a charge out of
>> answering the phone, "Ivo Prop", and somehow knew it was Ron I was
>> going to be asking for, I'm pretty sure it was the right number.
>>
>> Rick
>>
>
>
> Well regardless of what they told you, the hub if run with 2 blades
> and no other support in the gaps WILL dramatically increase the
> likelihood of a very expensive and possibly dangerous accident.
>
> Again, the hub secured only with 2 blade roots is NOT strong enough
> to hold together reliably under the normal conditions of usage in
> flight. Do NOT try to fix this by torquing the remaining bolts down
> more than 200 in/lbs, or by installing and torquing the other two
> bolts with no support in the gap!
>
> Again, do NOT ask me why I know this, tho I will merely say that
> I've verified this danger first-hand!
>
> You can correct this partially, like I said, with stacks of wide AN
> washers as thick as the gap secured by the other two bolts to the
> specified torque (200 in/lbs) as a field repair. But the overall
> strength of the hub is still compromised somewhat and it really
> shouldn't be run like that all the time.
>
> The bumbers, though, do result in a fully secured hub with no
> worries and the prop works great thus properly assembled...
>
> Caveat Emptor!
>
> LS
>
> --------
> LS
> FS II
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=141935#141935
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: patching pinholes in fabirc |
Right you are...I forgot to mention that part.
Iron the Poly-Tak to smooth out any bumps but make sure you iron is set to the
proper lower temp or else to much heat will destroy the adhesion.
I forgot the exact temp but it was below where any shrinkage of Fabric could occur.
--------
Ray
Riverside County, CA
Do Not Archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=141992#141992
Message 10
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John Hauck just left here heading South and on to points East. We of
course had a good visit and the weather for the most part was good.
After some modifications (see attached pic) to stiffen the elevator,
tightening a few wing U joint bolts, readjusting the cables to the
Elevator, he was able to evaluate the performance of the VG's on my
firestar. I will leave the report to him to make. I was very pleased
with the three things that we did to tighten up the surfaces of the
plane. It flew well before, but much better now. I cannot explain why
these small fixes were not so obvious that I would have already fixed
them, but I did not know any better I guess. It never occurred to me to
check the flex in the elevators and to
realize just how prone to breaking that area could be. We just put them
on the top for now. I will put some on the bottom when I get the chance.
Larry C
Message 11
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Once I had to replace a blade on my Ivo... the replacement blade was sent
back with a document that said in big letters, "don't use this prop without
the spacer blocks!" or something to that effect.
-- R
On 10/26/07, Eugene Zimmerman <ez@embarqmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> IVO users,
>
>
> In my opinion Lucien is right about the risks involved in running an
> IVO without the filler blocks installed.
>
>
> Here is why I believe it is unsafe.
>
> When the bolts are tightened the two bolts without the spacer blocks
> will cause the aluminum faceplate to warp. This distortion of the
> face plate compromises the "uniform" clamping pressure on the prop
> blade root. As Lucien said this distortion can be prevented by
> stacking washers of the same thickness as the blade root.
>
>
> If you do decide to run a two blade IVO without the spacer blocks or
> washers, do your lawyer a favor. Make certain you first get a signed
> approval document from IVO .
>
>
> Gene
>
>
> On Oct 26, 2007, at 10:05 AM, lucien wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > jindoguy(at)gmail.com wrote:
> >> Lucien, Unless someone at 1-800-367-7767 gets a charge out of
> >> answering the phone, "Ivo Prop", and somehow knew it was Ron I was
> >> going to be asking for, I'm pretty sure it was the right number.
> >>
> >> Rick
> >>
> >
> >
> > Well regardless of what they told you, the hub if run with 2 blades
> > and no other support in the gaps WILL dramatically increase the
> > likelihood of a very expensive and possibly dangerous accident.
> >
> > Again, the hub secured only with 2 blade roots is NOT strong enough
> > to hold together reliably under the normal conditions of usage in
> > flight. Do NOT try to fix this by torquing the remaining bolts down
> > more than 200 in/lbs, or by installing and torquing the other two
> > bolts with no support in the gap!
> >
> > Again, do NOT ask me why I know this, tho I will merely say that
> > I've verified this danger first-hand!
> >
> > You can correct this partially, like I said, with stacks of wide AN
> > washers as thick as the gap secured by the other two bolts to the
> > specified torque (200 in/lbs) as a field repair. But the overall
> > strength of the hub is still compromised somewhat and it really
> > shouldn't be run like that all the time.
> >
> > The bumbers, though, do result in a fully secured hub with no
> > worries and the prop works great thus properly assembled...
> >
> > Caveat Emptor!
> >
> > LS
> >
> > --------
> > LS
> > FS II
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=141935#141935
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 12
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One last thing on this, the last time I read the documentation (such as it is)
for the IVO, there was an explicit statement in there that the bumper blocks were
needed in the 2-blade config and that it should not be used without it.
If you do try it, you should be able to hear the results as you approach full power.
If you miss that queue (and it's unmistably loud) and manage to get off
the ground, you might end up using the BRS in short order......
Don't mean to harp on this but I don't want even the _suggestion_ that this _might_
be safe to go uncountered.....
Ok I'm done as I believe this horse is dead by now....
LS
--------
LS
FS II
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142004#142004
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Hmmm...
Seems like that is not the best solution as it serves to further weaken the area
of leverage by putting holes for the rivets in the part of the tubing that needs
to be strongest.
Explaining further about my rational for above statement;
Tubing is utilized for its strength in compression and tension....not bending.
The elevator tube (not the hinge line tube) needs its strength on the top and bottom
surface for the control fitting to act upon since the forces imparted by
the control surface are carried mostly by those two planes of the tube at that
location.
Unfortunately you put holes in that surface and reduced the effective section of
the top to 60% or less so the loads must now be carried on the 2 lateral sides
and bottom of the tube.
I think a better solution would have been welding or some kind of support that
drilled into the sides of the tubing.
To make matters worse the weakened area is covered and you will not be able to
inspect it for the cracks that I predict will develop in that tube.
Be very vigilent when inspecting this area as it could pose a problem eventually.
Just adding my opinion where I believe safety is compromised.
I'll think about it for a while and try to figure out how to remedy what has already
been done....but please don't make a matching support for the underside
as it will only place you at even greater risk.
--------
Ray
Riverside County, CA
Do Not Archive
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Message 14
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Make a similar but bigger piece that wraps around the top AND bottom as a single
piece and use the existing top rivet holes(after drilling out the other stuff)
It would not hurt to go to a thicker gauge of aluminum either to help make up for
the existing holes.
Put only a few ( 3 - 4) rivets in the SIDE of the elevator tube.
(I'd hate to suggest any more holes in that tube than already are there...making
swiss cheese out of that part but it is better than adding a matching bottom
part)
Any other suggestions would be welcome if some one out there has a better idea.
--------
Ray
Riverside County, CA
Do Not Archive
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Let me add one comment before this horse dies.Regarding damage to IVO props in
particular.Had a antenna fail and the prop caught the whip as it was leaving the
scene.About a 3/16 dent in the leading edge of one blade under the metal taped
section. IVO said remove tape,sand dent smooth; clean with acetone,fill with
epoxy (JB Weld) after cured,sand with block reapply new tape.That was 3yrs,150
hrs ago.
IVO said I could send it in but that is how they would fix it as well.Could
you not repair a Warp or Powerfin this way?
One last thing on this, the last time I read the documentation (such as it is)
for the IVO, there was an explicit statement in there that the bumper blocks were
needed in the 2-blade config and that it should not be used without it.
If you do try it, you should be able to hear the results as you approach full power.
If you miss that queue (and it's unmistably loud) and manage to get off
the ground, you might end up using the BRS in short order......
Don't mean to harp on this but I don't want even the _suggestion_ that this _might_
be safe to go uncountered.....
Ok I'm done as I believe this horse is dead by now....
LS
--------
LS
FS II
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142004#142004
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At 05:12 PM 10/26/2007, gary aman wrote:
>Let me add one comment before this horse dies.Regarding damage to IVO
>props in particular.Had a antenna fail and the prop caught the whip as it
>was leaving the scene.About a 3/16 dent in the leading edge of one blade
>under the metal taped section. IVO said remove tape,sand dent smooth;
>clean with acetone,fill with epoxy (JB Weld) after cured,sand with block
>reapply new tape.That was 3yrs,150 hrs ago.
> IVO said I could send it in but that is how they would fix it as
> well.Could you not repair a Warp or Powerfin this way?
The powerfin props have a foam core, so a relatively small undetected crack
could seriously compromise the strength of the thin load bearing skin...
which is what apparently happened to the pilot I knew. The same size
damage would have less effect on a solid prop, which is what I presume Ivo
and Warp props are.
-Dana
--
--
But do you trust the _government_ with semi-automatic assault rifles?
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Richard Neilsen wrote: << Powerfin has the lowest mass, the highest
thrust, but less damage resistance than the Warp Drive. ... I had a 9/16
x 2.5 inch bolt go thru my Powerfin with damage but it got me home from
three hundred miles out. >>
I hafta agree with Rick N. on the Powerfin.
I also run a 3-blade, 72 inch Powerfin behind my 912ul.
Although I enjoy the performance its wide blades provide, and its ease
of adjustment, it is not as robust as a Warp.
I had the oil cap go thru the prop (my fault - failed to ensure it was
secure before flying). Put a big enough gash in the leading edge to as
render that blade unusable. Had to spring $140 for a new blade.
Dennis Kirby
Mark-III, 912ul, in
Cedar Crest, NM
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Seems like that is not the best solution as it serves to further weaken the area
of leverage by putting holes for the rivets in the part of the tubing that needs
to be strongest.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ray,
With all due respect, "Mule Muffins". The stress is now spread over a much
wider area and the elevator now does not flex enough that the fabric wrinkles.
It did before. ( go check yours. Hold one side of the elevator still and lift
the other side) There is a steel sleeve inside the main elevator tube that goes
the length of the gusset. The small tubing that forms the outline of the deflecting
surface previously only attached to the main tube by one rivet. Now there
are four rivets holding it still. I might remind you that breakage mainly
comes from a part being flexed back and forth over a long period of time. I am
quite confident that a gusset on this area will not weaken, but strengthen the
elevator.
As for inspecting the plane, you bet I will. The better that I do, the longer
I will live.
Larry C
--------
do not archive
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Gene
When I ran two bladed IVO ..I used a really thick faceplate
washer---5/8th inch thick...... I then took care to do the final torque
on the blade bolts first and then torque the two bolts in the empty
spaces next..
Not enough hours,100 or so, for a scientific study...but had no
problems ...
By the way....anyone with a two blade hub for GSC? I have two left
hand tractor blades...64 inch Herb
On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 13:21:37 -0400 Eugene Zimmerman <ez@embarqmail.com>
writes:
> <ez@embarqmail.com>
>
> IVO users,
>
>
>
> In my opinion Lucien is right about the risks involved in running an
>
> IVO without the filler blocks installed.
>
>
>
> Here is why I believe it is unsafe.
>
> When the bolts are tightened the two bolts without the spacer blocks
>
> will cause the aluminum faceplate to warp. This distortion of the
> face plate compromises the "uniform" clamping pressure on the prop
>
> blade root. As Lucien said this distortion can be prevented by
> stacking washers of the same thickness as the blade root.
>
>
>
> If you do decide to run a two blade IVO without the spacer blocks or
>
> washers, do your lawyer a favor. Make certain you first get a signed
>
> approval document from IVO .
>
>
>
> Gene
>
>
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Mule muffins! I like that.
Hi Larry:
Don't think Ray has any idea what the problem is with the elevators. That fix
has worked for me for many hours. With more than 2,700 hours on the mkIII, I
am willing to believe that the fix works just fine.
The little things we did to your FSII made it feel like a new bird.
I enjoyed flying it.
VG's don't seem to add any improvement to the flight characteristics except in
landing. Larry's FS is a very docile lander. I liked that. As far as any other
magic, I could not find any difference in it and any other Kolb off the shelf.
john h
hauck's holler remote, Winnemucca, Nevada
--------
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler, alabama
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| Subject: | I really love Ivo Props, now |
Thanks for all the warnings and all, but did you guys read the part about, I
cut them down and made them fit properly? Honest, I really do appreciate
your concern, but there's something to be said for reading AND
comprehension.
Okay, it was a really bad day of doing work that others should have done
right the first time, and I'm cranky.
So here's the deal with the IVO problem. The spacers I have were numbered
1035. I have no idea how many cavities the mold has or whether that's a
general part number for parts made from a single cavity. Whoever last worked
on the mold ground the ejection pins too short so there are two bumps about
.005" proud of the surface on these blocks. The spacers are 1.023" at the
bumps and the prop blades are .997" to 1.004". I first put the whole thing
together and torqued just the two bolts through the spacers thinking they
might collapse, be squeezed or in some other magic way allow everything to
seat up, but there is no tooth fairy or Ivo fairy god mother, so, no luck.
The blades wobbled around like I do after drinking six Zombies. Given the
average ultralight pilot's level of workmanship, present company excepted, I
couldn't resist just torqueing down the blade bolts and, yes, you guessed
it, the whole thing snugged right up. It didn't surprise me at all, but I
just couldn't bring myself to leave it that way, so it all came off and the
block went in the mill vise to be flycut. Since the joy of cutting plastic
is only exceeded by nailing snot to a tree, I took .009 in two cuts off each
side, figuring that the surface finish would now allow the blocks to crush
slightly. It worked. Now when I torqued the spacer bolts first the blades
were clamped quite nicely. torqued the blade bolts and we were off to the
races.
That wonderful quick adjust mechanism, oh yeah it's fast. but you're left to
the mercy of how the crank ends were welded on the rods, how the ends of the
rods were bent and how the rods were inserted in the foam cores and then
into the mold for the final addition of the carbon fiber outer shell.
How do I know this? In the course of tracking down other problems today it
occurred to me to put my handy dandy Warp Drive protractor on the Ivo so I
could see how much I was quick adjusting it. So I quick adjusted the damn
thing and found I needed to adjust some more. This happens with any ground
adjustable prop, I don't fault Ivo for that, it's just part of the process
of dialing in the prop until it's properly set for the Rotax. It was when I
started to find the difference between the two blades was half a degree and
there was not one single thing I could do to quick adjust it out.
And then there's that wonderful torque schedule. Run engine three seconds
sprinkle fairy dust 'til you sneeze and retorque, run engine six seconds,
more fairy dust, more sneezing, retorque again, because the damn thing is
loose. Run engine, chant encantations, more fairy dust, more sneezing,
RETORQUE.
I hate Ivo props.
Okay, I may not be better now, but it's starting to get it out of my system.
Like someone said here, props are like religion. If you like Ivo's you like
em. I don't.
Warp Drives and Powerfins may have their drawbacks, but at least you can:
A) Adjust the blades to a gnat's hind end of relative uniformity.
B) Keep them torqued properly and they stay that way. When you go back and
check, you don't find that the bolts turn another 30 degrees just because
you dared to start the engine.
Did I mention I hate Ivo Props?
Please, ya'll, take this as the wild ravings they are meant to be and have a
laugh. As Greg Clayman used to say, "not too serious".
Rick
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Larry,
Just trying to get this straight in my head. Was there something broken on your
elevator, or did you put in the gusset to spread the elevator control torque
load further down the edge rib? If this is the case, using 4 more rivets on
each side of the gusset to help the two original rivets is not a bad idea, because
there are rivets through the hinge into the crome-moly insert on the bottom
side to balance the load. Doesn't make me nervous at all. Did you do both
right and left elevators?
--------
Roger in Oregon
1992 KXP 503 - N1782C
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| Subject: | Firestar II - Legal now |
My Firestar II is now legal. Got the airworthiness certificate today. The DAR charged
$193. for about 40 minutes of inspection. Tail number is N702V.
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----- Original Message -----
From: "R. Hankins" <rphanks@grantspass.com>
> Larry,
> Just trying to get this straight in my head. Was there something broken
> on your elevator, or did you put in the gusset to spread the elevator
> control torque load further down the edge rib? If this is the case, using
> 4 more rivets on each side of the gusset to help the two original rivets
> is not a bad idea, because there are rivets through the hinge into the
> crome-moly insert on the bottom side to balance the load. Doesn't make me
> nervous at all. Did you do both right and left elevators?
Roger,
Nothing broken, the gusset is to strengthen that area, and spread the
load. It was very surprising to me how much the thing would flex. The fabric
would wrinkle with any kind of pressure. I did both sides and it is solid as
a rock now.
Larry C
do not archive
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| Subject: | Re: Firestar II - Legal now |
Congratulations John!
You got a good deal on the DAR by local standards.
Do not archive
--------
Roger in Oregon
1992 KXP 503 - N1782C
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| Subject: | Re: I really love Ivo Props, now |
Sorry to hear you are frustrated with your IVO. I was pulling my hair out when
I installed my 66 two blade, trying to get the two blades to track the same.
I could not get the last 1/8th" out without shimming. Ivo assured me that was
close enough, so I abandoned the shims. 431 flight hours later it is still
pulling smoothly. I replaced the metal leading edge tape with the powerfin stuff
300hrs ago.
There is no question that Warps are tougher, but a quick search of the archives
will show that most pilots who have owned both props rate the IVO as smoother.
Maybe all of that flexibility evens out the differences between blades?
As for thrust, just about everyone claims their prop has the most or is more efficient.
I get 1300fpm sustained climb with a 503 with my IVO, so it is no slouch.
I'm still hoping to switch props with Larry Cottrell at the Rock House
proving grounds one of these days and get an apples to apples comparison with
a two blade Warp.
My bolts quit moving after the first ten hours. I put a drop of torque seal on
the bolt heads as a visual check for preflight, but I only check the torque every
hundred hours or so now.
Take care...
--------
Roger in Oregon
1992 KXP 503 - N1782C
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