Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:33 AM - November is Matronics Email List Fund Raiser Month! (Matt Dralle)
1. 05:12 AM - Re: Great place for Kolbs...odd request. (Rex Rodebush)
2. 07:07 AM - Re: I am getting a Kolb MK III!! (grantr)
3. 07:47 AM - Re: Ivo Props (lucien)
4. 08:02 AM - Re: Re: I am getting a Kolb MK III!! (Mike Welch)
5. 08:23 AM - Prop inertia, again (Richard Girard)
6. 09:19 AM - Re: Prop inertia, again (lucien)
7. 11:12 AM - Re: Re: Prop inertia, again (Richard Girard)
8. 11:49 AM - Re: Re: I am getting a Kolb MK III!! (Robert Laird)
9. 12:35 PM - Kolb Mark III For Sale (flykolb)
10. 03:21 PM - Re: Re: Great place for Kolbs...odd request. (Russ Kinne)
11. 04:31 PM - Re: I am getting a Kolb MK III!! (jb92563)
12. 06:24 PM - Re: Re: I am getting a Kolb MK III!! (Larry Cottrell)
13. 06:53 PM - Re: Re: I am getting a Kolb MK III!! (Jim Kmet)
14. 08:44 PM - Fw: Kolb flying area (Flycrazy8@aol.com)
15. 08:59 PM - Re: Re: I am getting a Kolb MK III!! (Vic Gibson)
16. 09:13 PM - Re: Kolb Mark III For Sale (Vic Gibson)
Message 0
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | November is Matronics Email List Fund Raiser Month! |
Dear Listers,
You've probably noticed that there are no banner ads or pop-up windows or spam
from any of the List and Forum services at Matronics. These include, for example:
The Email List Postings - http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse
The Email List Forum Site - http://forums.matronics.com
The List Wiki - http://wiki.matronics.com
The List Search Engine - http://www.matronics.com/search
This is because I have always enjoyed a List experience that was completely about
the sport we enjoy - airplanes - and not about advertising!
But running a high performance, highly available service like this isn't free and
a fair amount of money in terms of computer upgrades, business-class Internet
connectivity, and electricity. Consequently, many similar sites turn to advertising
to support these costs. Advertising that you have to look at each and
every time you read an email message or browse the their web site.
Rather than subject my List community to another constant commercial bombardment,
I have chosen to hold a PBS-like fund raiser each year in November to support
the continued operation and upgrade of the List services. It's solely through
the Contributions of List members that the Lists and Forums continue to be
possible!
During the month, I will be sending out a Fund Raiser reminder message every few
days and I ask for your patience and understanding during the month throughout
these regular messages. Think of them as PBS' Pledge Breaks... :-)
To minimize the impact of the Fund Raiser on the List community, I implemented
a new feature late last year specifically related to making Contributions. If
you are an Email List subscriber, once you make a Contribution using the online
web site, you will no longer receive the email from me regarding the Fund Raiser!
There are a couple of exceptions to this, however. If someone replies
to a Contribution message I've sent, you might receive that. Additionally, the
messages will always be posted to the Forums site. To a first order, however,
once you make a Contribution, you won't get my email messages about the Fund
Raiser for the rest of the month. For Contributions by check, the squelch
will take effect once the check is received.
There is a whole new line up of really great Contribution gifts this year! When
you make a qualifying Contribution, you can select one of the many free gifts
that are available during the Fund Raiser. These gifts are provided through
the generous support of a number of our industry's leading supporters including:
Bob Nuckolls - AeroElectric - http://www.aeroelectric.com
Andy Gold - Builder's Bookstore - http://www.buildersbooks.com
Jon Croke - HomebuiltHELP - http://www.homebuilthelp.com
Please visit these guy's respective sites, as they have some great products to
offer and are generously supporting the Matronics List Fund Raiser.
You can make your List Contribution using any one of three secure methods this
year including using a credit card, PayPal, or by personal check. From the Contribution
site, you can select any one of this year's free gifts with a qualifying
Contribution amount. The Contribution page is pretty loooonnnnng this year
in order to list great selection of great gifts available so be sure to scroll
all the way to the bottom of the web page to see everything that's available!
Please make a List Support Contribution:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
I would like to thank everyone in advance for their generous support! Your Contributions
truely keep this operation afloat!
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Forum Administrator
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Great place for Kolbs...odd request. |
Next year we're retiring and moving from Ohio to the Missouri Ozarks, about 15-20
miles West of Branson. I grew up in that area and it has everything we want.
Just visit different areas on your vacations and check them out.
Rex Rodebush
Building a Mark III X-tra
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=143178#143178
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: I am getting a Kolb MK III!! |
Thanks for the responses guys!
I talked with my instructor and he said he has flown a MK III with a 503 and a
heavy passenger and it did well.
We are only 400 to 600 feet ASL with flat terrain So I think I will be fine. I
will mostly be flying solo and at my weight of 150# the plane should perform
well with me in it.
I am looking forward to the trip to get it. I am having to put a 3rd set of tires
on my truck. I am on my second set of Cooper tires. Just had them put on in
06 and the sidewalls on all 4 are cracked all the way around the tire close to
the rim. I am not going with Cooper again. The tires seem out of round as well.
Sometimes the truck shakes like mad and other times it doesn't do it so bad.
So just a heads up don't buy cooper tires!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=143196#143196
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
gaman(at)att.net wrote:
> Mike,
> I just shared an experience I had with an IVO and IVO's response to my inquiry
about having it repaired.I don't run a IVO because it's repairable.I run it
because it is the only 3 blade that meets the mass inertia limits of a B box.Small
injuries like the one I described,might well be repairable.It doesn't take
a muffler to destroy any prop,a 3oz spring will do.As for the rest of your
assumptions,assume away.
>
Not meaning to drag this out some more, but actually the IVO in 3 blades exceeds
the MOI limits of the (Rotax) B box by about 40 or 50% in pretty much all the
workable lengths of the blades (60" on up).
The only 3 blade I know that's under the B box limit is the powerfin B model and
possibly the GSC with the wood blades.
The IVO in 2 blades is in the vicinity of the B box limit or possibly below it
depending on the length of the blades.
Not too feel too bad about it tho - the Warp drive 3 blade is, last I heard, something
like 2x the MOI limit of even the C box ;).
Well this is all from memory, so some of my figures on this are possibly wrong......
I'm fairly sure about the 3-blade IVO tho as I measured my 62" MOI once and IIRC
it was somewhere around the 4500 kg/cm2 figure for it you find around the internet.
I have an IVO medium on my 912 and that's a massive, heavy sucker (anyone know
the MOI limit on the 912 gearbox?)
LS
--------
LS
FS II
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=143201#143201
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: I am getting a Kolb MK III!! |
Grant,
Glad to hear you're going to get your Kolb. I drove 16 hours "one way" to go
pick up my GlaStar project.
And, as a corollary to the old expression, "TIME SPENT FLYING IS NOT DEDUCTED
FROM YOUR LIFE!!", I would like to add:
Neither is "GOING TO GET YOUR AIRPLANE".
Mike Welch
_________________________________________________________________
Peek-a-boo FREE Tricks & Treats for You!
http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Prop inertia, again |
Since the old wives tale about the inertia of Warp Drive props has surfaced
again, I am again publishing the data from the inertia tests I did last
winter, The tests were performed per Rotax Service Information instruction
SI 11 UL 91 E, available from the Rotax owners site and paraphrased in the
CPS catalog.
Here are the numbers for a 66" Ritz 2 blade wood prop, a 66" Warp Drive 3
blade straight carbon fiber prop with CNC aluminum hub, an IVO 60" 3
bladecomposite prop with quick adjust hub, and a 48" 2 blade Tennessee
Propellerwood prop. Each prop was run 3 times and the times shown are
the average ofthe three, although each prop's runs were all +/- 1
second. I'll go heaviestto lightest.
Warp Drive 66" 3 blade CNC hub
Wt. 9 lb. 12 oz.
Average time to 30 oscillations, 180 seconds
Inertia 5200 Kg cm^2
IVO 60" 3 blade Quick adjust hub
Wt. 6 lb. 4 oz.
Average time to 30 oscillations, 161 seconds
Inertia 2700Kg cm^2
Ritz 66 X 28 2 blade
Wt 5 lb. 1 oz.
Average time to 30 oscillations, 190 seconds
Inertia 3000 Kg cm^2
TPI 48 X 34 2 blade
Wt. 3 lb. 3 oz.
Average time to 30 oscillations, 127 seconds
Inertia 1100Kg cm^2
So there you have it, you can definitely see the variance in inertia caused
by length and mass. The Ritz is right at the top of the allowable range for
a B gearbox, while the shorter, heavier IVO is right near it and the TPI
shorty should represent no problem. The Warp drive is well within range of
the C and E gearboxes but would be brutal on a B box.
Rick
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Prop inertia, again |
jindoguy(at)gmail.com wrote:
> Since the old wives tale about the inertia of Warp Drive props has surfaced again,
I am again publishing the data from the inertia tests I did last winter,
The tests were performed per Rotax Service Information instruction SI 11 UL
91 E, available from the Rotax owners site and paraphrased in the CPS catalog.
Whoa, if these tests are accurate (and sounds like they are), I happily stand corrected.
I don't remember too well but it seems I got the same no. of oscillations
with my 62" IVO, but clearly my calculation came out messed up.....
I've always wondered how the boxes have stood up to years of use of these props
anyway ;)
LS
--------
LS
FS II
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=143214#143214
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Prop inertia, again |
Lucien, Sorry, didn't mean to sound so strident, but over the years I've
heard people claim this same thing about Warp Drive Props with no data to
back it up. That was why I shivered my way through the tests last winter.
Ladies and gentleman, this test is almost ridiculously easy to do. There is
no magic or mystery. The attached photo is of the plate on which I mounted
the propellers. The slots in the end are where the 6 foot lengths of safety
wire were placed. All told, it took less than 30 minutes to assemble, mount
and level the test apparatus. Certainly not rocket science, although I do
admit trying to track down the theory of the torsion pendulum to assemble a
spreadsheet turned into an exercise in futility.
Fortunately that work was done by Rotax. All you have to supply is the
weight of the prop and the time required to swing through 30 oscillations.
The only trick to it, I found, was keeping any up and down movement out of
the test. Once I got a good side to side swing, I started the stop watch,
timed the first 30, then the next 30 and then 30 more oscillations. I also
did the test by starting and stopping and starting again, just to make sure
that what I learned in physics class about the frequency, speed and swing of
a pendulum balancing out was true. Of course there is a small difference due
to air resistance, but I couldn't find a meaningful difference in the
variance of swing that I used.
It's coming on winter, some of us will lay up for the cold weather, others
will be doing maintenance and some are still building. Why not setup the
inertia test on your prop and publish the results here. I'll volunteer to
assemble the data and publish a table from which some reasonable assumptions
might be made by those in the process of considering a new prop purchase.
Rick
On 11/1/07, lucien <lstavenhagen@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> jindoguy(at)gmail.com wrote:
> > Since the old wives tale about the inertia of Warp Drive props has
> surfaced again, I am again publishing the data from the inertia tests I did
> last winter, The tests were performed per Rotax Service Information
> instruction SI 11 UL 91 E, available from the Rotax owners site and
> paraphrased in the CPS catalog.
>
>
> Whoa, if these tests are accurate (and sounds like they are), I happily
> stand corrected. I don't remember too well but it seems I got the same no.
> of oscillations with my 62" IVO, but clearly my calculation came out messed
> up.....
>
> I've always wondered how the boxes have stood up to years of use of these
> props anyway ;)
>
> LS
>
> --------
> LS
> FS II
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=143214#143214
>
>
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: I am getting a Kolb MK III!! |
To get my Kolb, 26 hours, one-way from SE Texas to just north of Los
Angeles, CA, then back, over Thanksgiving two years ago. You're right,
every minute was worth it!
-- Robert
On 11/1/07, Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Grant,
>
> Glad to hear you're going to get your Kolb. I drove 16 hours "one way"
> to go pick up my GlaStar project.
>
> And, as a corollary to the old expression, "TIME SPENT FLYING IS NOT
> DEDUCTED FROM YOUR LIFE!!", I would like to add:
>
> Neither is "GOING TO GET YOUR AIRPLANE".
>
> Mike Welch
>
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Kolb Mark III For Sale |
I have a Kolb Mark III which is being rebuilt by an A&P who is also a
machinist for US Airways, It has been stripped to the metal, powder
coated, recovered, and painted. It has a BRS, a custom gas tank with 15+
gal capacity, new panel, etc. It should be finished around this
Thanksgiving and will be almost like new - or better than new in some
respects.
It has a Rotax 532 (65hp). .
It is located in Concord, NC (near Charlotte). I left it there for
restoring when I moved to Michigan and I am not going to be able to keep
it up here. I've had lots of great flights in it!
I added up the cost for a new Kolb Mark III Classic on The New Kolb
Company and got a total of $22,000 for the kit including what is on my
plane. That is without engine or instruments and without the time and
tools needed to build it. I'm asking $16,900.
Give me a call if you might be interested.
Jim
1-800-383-1868
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Great place for Kolbs...odd request. |
Dave
Thanx advice. Been there, and it is great. But still a long walk to
the sea, and where is the ski-lift? Kona is great too.
(Don't want much, do I?)
Russ
do not archive
On Nov 1, 2007, at 1:14 AM, Dave Bigelow wrote:
> <up_country@hotmail.com>
>
> The climate you are looking for exists at elevations above 2500
> feet on the western side of the Island of Hawaii. However, the
> rest......?
>
> --------
> Dave Bigelow
> Kamuela, Hawaii
> FS2, HKS 700E
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=143084#143084
>
>
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: I am getting a Kolb MK III!! |
I drove both ways from Riverside California to St Pete's Florida and back for a
Glider in Trailer in 6 days, including one off day in St Petes prepping the trailer
for the journey back....3300 miles total.
I lost 4 hours when a wheel, bearing and axle came apart on the Hwy 10 just after
entering Mississipi, about 500 feet before the Information center pull off
and 3 miles from a trailer building place.
I replaced the complete axle as a single unit that included bearings and was pregreased.
Got back to the Info center and finished up the repair just as the rain and lightning
started......it was a charmed trip with good fortune and weather all the
way.
The scenery was great, so I can completely endorse a nice road trip to get an aircraft.....fun
and full of anticipation you hardly notice the time and miles
slipping by.
--------
Ray
Riverside County, CA
Do Not Archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=143284#143284
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: I am getting a Kolb MK III!! |
> We are only 400 to 600 feet ASL with flat terrain So I think I will be
> fine. I will mostly be flying solo and at my weight of 150# the plane
> should perform well with me in it.
>
I do not want to be an alarmist, but do a weight and balance on it before
you fly it. I used an old weight sheet that I had for a Mark III and a pilot
that only weighed 150 lbs would be too light to fly it. You may have to
weigh down the front to keep the CG within the parameters. I know that
anyone weighing less than 175 cannot fly my firestar. Check and be safe!
Glad that you found what you want.
Larry C
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: I am getting a Kolb MK III!! |
I second Larry`s post, if you are unfamiliar with the MK-3, just about the
time you toch down , when you pull off the last bit of power, the nose will
probably come up, instead of down, maybe put another 100 LBs in the passeger
seat, Then reduce some in the next few landings. Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrell@fmtcblue.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 8:24 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: I am getting a Kolb MK III!!
>
>> We are only 400 to 600 feet ASL with flat terrain So I think I will be
>> fine. I will mostly be flying solo and at my weight of 150# the plane
>> should perform well with me in it.
>>
>
>
> I do not want to be an alarmist, but do a weight and balance on it before
> you fly it. I used an old weight sheet that I had for a Mark III and a
> pilot that only weighed 150 lbs would be too light to fly it. You may have
> to weigh down the front to keep the CG within the parameters. I know that
> anyone weighing less than 175 cannot fly my firestar. Check and be safe!
> Glad that you found what you want.
> Larry C
>
>
>
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Fwd: Kolb flying area |
-----------------------------1193974537--
Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: I am getting a Kolb MK III!! |
Re: Mark III CG........I first flew my Classic with a 33% CG. I do not recommend
doing that. Now it is at 28% and is a dream to fly. For intial flights, I
recommend a 25% CG and then later go to 28%.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Kmet
Sent: Thursday, November 1, 2007 6:50 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: I am getting a Kolb MK III!!
I second Larry`s post, if you are unfamiliar with the MK-3, just about the
time you toch down , when you pull off the last bit of power, the nose will
probably come up, instead of down, maybe put another 100 LBs in the passeger
seat, Then reduce some in the next few landings. Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrell@fmtcblue.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 8:24 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: I am getting a Kolb MK III!!
>
>> We are only 400 to 600 feet ASL with flat terrain So I think I will be
>> fine. I will mostly be flying solo and at my weight of 150# the plane
>> should perform well with me in it.
>>
>
>
> I do not want to be an alarmist, but do a weight and balance on it before
> you fly it. I used an old weight sheet that I had for a Mark III and a
> pilot that only weighed 150 lbs would be too light to fly it. You may have
> to weigh down the front to keep the CG within the parameters. I know that
> anyone weighing less than 175 cannot fly my firestar. Check and be safe!
> Glad that you found what you want.
> Larry C
>
>
>
Message 16
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Kolb Mark III For Sale |
That is a really good buy. Someone will jump on it. I would never sell
mine for that. They are worth every bit of $25K
-----Original Message-----
From: flykolb
Sent: Thursday, November 1, 2007 1:38 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb Mark III For Sale
I have a Kolb Mark III which is being rebuilt by an A&P who is also a mac
hinist for US Airways, It has been stripped to the metal, powder coated,
recovered, and painted. It has a BRS, a custom gas tank with 15+ gal capa
city, new panel, etc. It should be finished around this Thanksgiving and
will be almost like new - or better than new in some respects.
It has a Rotax 532 (65hp). .
It is located in Concord, NC (near Charlotte). I left it there for restor
ing when I moved to Michigan and I am not going to be able to keep it up
here. I've had lots of great flights in it!
I added up the cost for a new Kolb Mark III Classic on The New Kolb Compa
ny and got a total of $22,000 for the kit including what is on my plane.
That is without engine or instruments and without the time and tools need
ed to build it. I'm asking $16,900.
Give me a call if you might be interested.
Jim
1-800-383-1868
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|