Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:16 AM - Re: inst. panel (robert bean)
2. 08:06 AM - Re: Re: I am getting a Kolb MK III!! (Travis Brown (Kolb Aircraft))
3. 08:46 AM - Re: Flight safety question - chutes (jb92563)
4. 09:09 AM - Re: Help with level flight attitude for Mark II (jb92563)
5. 12:58 PM - Re: Cuyuna UL II-02 wiring diagram anyone? (jb92563)
6. 01:15 PM - Re: Re: Help with level flight attitude for Mark II (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
7. 02:16 PM - Re: Re: Help with level flight attitude for Mark II (possums)
8. 02:38 PM - Re: Re: Help with level flight attitude for Mark II (Russ Kinne)
9. 06:32 PM - Re: Help with level flight attitude for Mark II (ropermike)
10. 06:48 PM - Re: Help with level flight attitude for Mark II (R. Hankins)
Message 1
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I remember back when I first joined this list making a comment about
that "ugly wrinkle paint"
John Hauck didn't take it kindly. :) Reason for my opinion was
having seen so many of the
old planes done badly with it, drips runs, sags, etc. Done right it
looks ok but tends to hold dirt.
Next time I do my panel over I'll go with a darker color to kill
reflection into the windshield.
Easy way is to glue (rubber cement) a flat texture laminate sheet,
aka formica, onto the aluminum.
There are an infinite number of colors available. Easy to work
with. If you put it on a
panel with pre-existing holes you can cut it close to the edges with
snips and finish to flush
with a half-round file. It comes in different thicknesses, get the
thin stuff.
BB,, MkIIIc in basement shop away from the squirrels and chipmunks.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: I am getting a Kolb MK III!! |
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Flight safety question - chutes |
This has been a very interesting topic as some of you have apparently had to deploy
a chute and lived to tell the story.
I myself understand the importance of a thorough preflight as I have found things
on aircraft....others...that have been rather alarming and even more boggled
how the other pilots have missed things.
For example, one glider I flew had its spar retaining pin partially backed out
of the spar knuckle joint....yikes!
That same aircraft also had some issues with the Left wingtip being a little more
flexible that the other wing for some reason.....turns out the reason for the
new right wing was that someone did aerobatics and overstressed the right wing,
cracking the spar.....they only replaced the one wing....jeez!
My own aircraft had a tail-wheel locking cable wrapped around the left ruddervator
causing considerable increase in control forces....apparently it was done
by the A&P during the annual somehow and I caught it in the preflight.
My main concern for safely in our aluminum and chromoly tube structures is cracking
of tubes and welds.
They unusually occur in those hidden areas that are hard to inspect.
As far as getting out...I have an Ultrastar so.....relatively easy.
--------
Ray
Riverside County, CA
Do Not Archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=143981#143981
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Help with level flight attitude for Mark II |
Hey Rick,
I did advise them to do it both ways and satisfy themself(not take my word for
it).
However, what it it you are telling me about the "CG being aft" in the ground position,
(similar to a climb attitude)?
If what you say is true then it means that initiating a climb attitude makes your
CG go aft and would be rather alarming if true.... right?
That implies that upon initiating a climb the CG goes way aft and SHOULD result
in uncontrolable spin as the CG goes beyond the aft limit.
We all know that CG does NOT change from a simple pitch change...right?!
How many of us are spinning in on takeoff?
So there is something else going on here....and I am going to illustrate with an
example as soon as I can so people can understand what I am telling them.
Perhaps they are not using one of the correct methods for determining CG, but I'll
straighten that out with my example.
People can then choose to use which ever method they feel most comforatable with.
They should all continue to use the W&B method THEY have proven works for them
and their particular aircraft.
--------
Ray
Riverside County, CA
Do Not Archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=143986#143986
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Cuyuna UL II-02 wiring diagram anyone? |
Thanks for your responses.
I have what I need now, a couple different but substantially similar schematics
that allowed me to figure out the proper connections
for my engine.
Your help has been appreciated.
--------
Ray
Riverside County, CA
Do Not Archive
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144025#144025
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Help with level flight attitude for Mark II |
Ray
The CG does shift aft when in a climb and with the tail on the ground, just
denying that fact doesn't change anything. Anyone that has ever lifted the
tail of their airplane knows that the tail is lighter when lifted to the
specified W&B position. Lift it high enough and the tail will keep on going.
Now maybe where ever your head is at it doesn't do that but it does here in
the Midwest. The CG ranges are calculated based on a specific attitude. If
they were calculated with the tail wheel on the ground they would be
different. The CG ranges are given with the idea that the plane will be
flown in allot of flight attitudes and not get us in trouble. You can do
your weight and balance your way but please don't try to advise others this
way. Also please if you do your W&B your way don't take anyone up in your
plane or fly over populated areas.
It is obvious you think you know more than than everyone else and that is
fine. Just keep it to yourself and keep flying. Some day when the grim
reaper comes calling your bad advise will stop once and for all.
As usual this is just my opinion and worth what was paid for it.
Do not archive
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIC
----- Original Message -----
From: "jb92563" <jb92563@yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 12:08 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Help with level flight attitude for Mark II
>
> Hey Rick,
>
> I did advise them to do it both ways and satisfy themself(not take my word
> for it).
>
> However, what it it you are telling me about the "CG being aft" in the
> ground position, (similar to a climb attitude)?
>
> If what you say is true then it means that initiating a climb attitude
> makes your CG go aft and would be rather alarming if true.... right?
>
> That implies that upon initiating a climb the CG goes way aft and SHOULD
> result in uncontrolable spin as the CG goes beyond the aft limit.
>
> We all know that CG does NOT change from a simple pitch change...right?!
>
> How many of us are spinning in on takeoff?
>
> So there is something else going on here....and I am going to illustrate
> with an example as soon as I can so people can understand what I am
> telling them.
>
> Perhaps they are not using one of the correct methods for determining CG,
> but I'll straighten that out with my example.
>
> People can then choose to use which ever method they feel most
> comforatable with.
>
> They should all continue to use the W&B method THEY have proven works for
> them and their particular aircraft.
>
> --------
> Ray
> Riverside County, CA
>
> Do Not Archive
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=143986#143986
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Help with level flight attitude for Mark II |
At 04:15 PM 11/5/2007, you wrote:
><NeilsenRM@comcast.net>
>
>Ray
>
>The CG does shift aft when in a climb and with the tail on the
>ground, just denying that fact doesn't change anything. Anyone that
>has ever lifted the tail of their airplane knows that the tail is
>lighter when lifted to the specified W&B position. Lift it high
>enough and the tail will keep on going. Now maybe where ever your
>head is at it doesn't do that but it does here in the Midwest. The
>CG ranges are calculated based on a specific attitude. If they were
>calculated with the tail wheel on the ground they would be
>different. The CG ranges are given with the idea that the plane will
>be flown in allot of flight attitudes and not get us in trouble. You
>can do your weight and balance your way but please don't try to
>advise others this way. Also please if you do your W&B your way
>don't take anyone up in your plane or fly over populated areas.
Here are the "old" instructions, again.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Help with level flight attitude for Mark II |
Weeeeel, this is MY opinion and everyone is welcome to ignore it.
CG does NOT change unless weights are shifted on or within the
airplane. IMHO it is a constant, when in the air! -- unless you
move baggage, lean way forward, shift weight around. In any case the
aircraft's ATTITUDE will not move the CG, has nothing to do with it.
This is a serious and potentially dangerous area. if you're confused,
forget the amateur experts and consult a knowledgable person. May
take some work to find one but your life is worth it. Ignore any
advice that sounds questionable.
IMHO; feel free to ignore if you wish.
Russ Kinne
On Nov 5, 2007, at 4:15 PM, Richard & Martha Neilsen wrote:
> <NeilsenRM@comcast.net>
>
> Ray
>
> The CG does shift aft when in a climb and with the tail on the
> ground, just denying that fact doesn't change anything. Anyone that
> has ever lifted the tail of their airplane knows that the tail is
> lighter when lifted to the specified W&B position. Lift it high
> enough and the tail will keep on going. Now maybe where ever your
> head is at it doesn't do that but it does here in the Midwest. The
> CG ranges are calculated based on a specific attitude. If they were
> calculated with the tail wheel on the ground they would be
> different. The CG ranges are given with the idea that the plane
> will be flown in allot of flight attitudes and not get us in
> trouble. You can do your weight and balance your way but please
> don't try to advise others this way. Also please if you do your W&B
> your way don't take anyone up in your plane or fly over populated
> areas.
>
> It is obvious you think you know more than than everyone else and
> that is fine. Just keep it to yourself and keep flying. Some day
> when the grim reaper comes calling your bad advise will stop once
> and for all.
>
> As usual this is just my opinion and worth what was paid for it.
>
> Do not archive
>
> Rick Neilsen
> Redrive VW powered MKIIIC
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "jb92563" <jb92563@yahoo.com>
> To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 12:08 PM
> Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Help with level flight attitude for Mark II
>
>
>>
>> Hey Rick,
>>
>> I did advise them to do it both ways and satisfy themself(not take
>> my word for it).
>>
>> However, what it it you are telling me about the "CG being aft" in
>> the ground position, (similar to a climb attitude)?
>>
>> If what you say is true then it means that initiating a climb
>> attitude makes your CG go aft and would be rather alarming if
>> true.... right?
>>
>> That implies that upon initiating a climb the CG goes way aft and
>> SHOULD result in uncontrolable spin as the CG goes beyond the aft
>> limit.
>>
>> We all know that CG does NOT change from a simple pitch
>> change...right?!
>>
>> How many of us are spinning in on takeoff?
>>
>> So there is something else going on here....and I am going to
>> illustrate with an example as soon as I can so people can
>> understand what I am telling them.
>>
>> Perhaps they are not using one of the correct methods for
>> determining CG, but I'll straighten that out with my example.
>>
>> People can then choose to use which ever method they feel most
>> comforatable with.
>>
>> They should all continue to use the W&B method THEY have proven
>> works for them and their particular aircraft.
>>
>> --------
>> Ray
>> Riverside County, CA
>>
>> Do Not Archive
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=143986#143986
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Help with level flight attitude for Mark II |
For what its worth, i weighed my MKll tailwheel on the ground and elevated 2'.
It weighed 5lbs less elevated and the mains weighed 2.5 lbs more. I used the elevated
weight for my weight and balance....Mike
--------
The next best thing to playing and winning is playing and losing!...Mike Hillger
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144065#144065
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Help with level flight attitude for Mark II |
"CG does NOT change unless weights are shifted on or within the airplane. IMHO
it is a constant, when in the air!"
Absolutely correct Rick! Not just your opinion, but solid irrefutable physics.
Unless mass is moved, added, or subtracted, the CG of the plane does not change.
This is true on the ground and in the air.
The distribution of weight on the scales and therefore the calculation of C.G.
with respect to a datum does change with attitude on the ground. One can choose
any attitude one wants with a new design to measure this position and verify
limits with flight testing. The important thing is that (once the testing is
done and limits set) all those thereafter make their measurements in the exact
same manner.
Builders use different tire & wheel sizes, custom landing gear, short tail springs
etc to costomize their craft. Because of this. using the wing bottom at a
set angle to level makes for a much more repeatable process than taxi attitude.
This lets us all benefit from the flight testing done by the initial designers.
Doing it any other way puts the EXPERIMENT back into EXPERIMENTAL.
Fly safe!
--------
Roger in Oregon
1992 KXP 503 - N1782C
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