Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:18 AM - What Listers Are Saying... (Matt Dralle)
1. 04:10 AM - Re: Re: Flight safety question - chutes (pat ladd)
2. 04:15 AM - Re: Re: Flight safety question - chutes (ElleryWeld@aol.com)
3. 04:34 AM - kolb MKII (Carlo Tura)
4. 05:42 AM - Re: Re: Flight safety question - chutes (Russ Kinne)
5. 05:44 AM - Re: Cracking in tubing and welds? (robert bean)
6. 07:35 AM - Re: Flight safety question - chutes (jb92563)
7. 08:51 AM - Re: Flight safety question - chutes (JetPilot)
8. 10:06 AM - Re: Re: Flight safety question - chutes (ElleryWeld@aol.com)
9. 10:33 AM - Re: Re: Flight safety question - chutes (Michael Sharp)
10. 11:13 AM - Re: Flight safety question - chutes (jb92563)
11. 11:19 AM - Re: Re: Flight safety question - chutes (Bryan Dever)
12. 11:27 AM - Re: Re: Flight safety question - chutes (Russ Kinne)
13. 11:55 AM - Re: Flight safety question - chutes (JetPilot)
14. 12:10 PM - Re: Unpleasantness (George Bass)
15. 01:23 PM - Re: Cracking in tubing and welds? (jb92563)
16. 01:40 PM - Re: Unpleasantness (jb92563)
17. 02:19 PM - Deleting trash (ElleryWeld@aol.com)
18. 02:24 PM - Re: Unpleasantness (Southern Reflections)
19. 03:32 PM - Re: kolb MKII (Larry Bourne)
20. 03:39 PM - Re: Re: Flight safety question - chutes (Dana Hague)
21. 03:39 PM - Re: kolb MKII (ElleryWeld@aol.com)
22. 03:43 PM - Re: Re: Flight safety question - chutes (Russ Kinne)
23. 05:35 PM - Xtra Information (Chuck McCullough)
24. 06:06 PM - Re: Xtra Information (Jim Kmet)
25. 07:13 PM - Re: cross wind landing (Malcolmbru@aol.com)
26. 07:16 PM - Re: Unpleasantness (Malcolmbru@aol.com)
27. 07:46 PM - Re: Xtra Information (Richard Pike)
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| Subject: | What Listers Are Saying... |
November is Matronics List Fund Raiser month and a number people been sending some
really nice comments regarding the Lists. I thought I'd share a few below.
The Lists are completely supported by your Contributions. All of the bills for
new hardware, connectivity, and electricity are paid by the generous support
of the List members.
Please make your Contribution today to support the continued operation of the List
and Forums:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
================= What Listers Are Saying ================
Flying and building is much safer with this List!!
Robert D.
Thanks for having and maintaining such a great resource to
all of us builders and flyers.
Wayne E.
Love the fact that you haven't caved to advertising!
Peter J.
..a great resource!!
Robert C.
Not building at the moment, but the Lists keeps me right
up to date with what's going on.
Chris D.
The web forum has been running great.
James O.
I enjoy this [List] site very much...
Paul C.
This is a great list!
Albert G.
..a valuable resource!
Roger C.
I am deployed to Pakistan right now, and being able
to go on-line and keep up with the aircraft discussions
helps keep the aircraft building dream alive in my mind!
Gregory C.
..fantastic service!
Roger M.
..clearly a work of passion!
Mike C.
It is a great service to us!
Kevin C.
The list is a wonderful resource...
Ralph O.
[The Lists] have been the single greatest resource in
building my RV-9A and now my RV-10.
Albert G.
..a valuable and always improving service.
Dick S.
STILL THE BEST BARGAIN AROUND!!
Owen B.
..such a valuable tool.
Jon M.
[The Lists] have been an invaluable resource for me
as a Zenith homebuilder.
David G.
The opportunity to meet (on line at least) many other
interesting builders and to make some new friends is
truly appreciated.
Albert G.
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Flight safety question - chutes |
Just to muddy the waters even more. Very few chutes are fitted in the UK. I
have only ever seen one. . In Germany it is illegal to fly without one.
Unless the plane actually breaks up I would have thought that your are
better off staying with it. You have some control and you have a cage round
you. You would have to be in some extraordinary circumstance to pull the
chute just because of engine failure.
Cheers
Pat
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Flight safety question - chutes |
Oh so everyone that doesn't have a BRS is a Fool now.
I have to Disagree with that as I am one that will not buy one, one of the
planes I had came with one and I removed it I would rather have less drag &
weight then a chute don't fly outside the airplanes design envelope use a
checklist on pre flight keep your plane well maintained fine tuned and you
shouldn't need a chute on a kolb if it was built properly
But if you hear of me turning into a lawn dart or going in the woods some day
in the future and not making it, at least I went out enjoying what I like to
do most, instead of lingering on in some nursing home depending on others to
take care of me until the lights go out
I will find my own way out Thanks
Already been in the woods scene once and not a scratch the wife thinks I have
nine lives and IM trying em out life's short enjoy what you like while you
can
Ellery in Maine
do not archive
Message 3
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Good morning,
I'm italian and i don't speak english well.
I'looking for manual of a Kolb MK II.
Is possible find it ?
Thank for your attemption
Charlie
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Flight safety question - chutes |
IMHO -- 'once they're deployed' - you're a LIVE passenger along for
the ride, not a dead crash victim
On Nov 7, 2007, at 12:25 AM, JetPilot wrote:
>
>
> jindoguy(at)gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>
>> If one hadn't come on my Mk III I don't think I would buy one. I
>> didn't on my Trike. The problem, IMHO, is a false sense of
>> security they give. Once they're deployed, you're just a passenger
>> along for the ride.
>> Rick
>>
>>
>
>
> I have to disagree with Rick on this one. I absolutely would not
> fly either my MK-III or trike without a BRS. In experimental
> aircraft, schit happens, and BRS chutes have an excellent record
> for saving lives. I do not take any extra chances because I have a
> BRS, nor do I preflight less because of my BRS, but that is more of
> an issue of using good judgement than having a BRS or not.
>
> Ricks reasoning is just so wrong. If I thought like Rick, I would
> not wear a seatbelt, because it would make me take more chances in
> my car... Do you drive in a reckless manner because you have an
> airbag ? Only a fool would not take every safety advantage he can
> get.
>
> Mike
>
> --------
> "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast
> as you could have !!!
>
> Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144293#144293
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Cracking in tubing and welds? |
The most overlooked tube is the lift strut carry-through, -that
single tube passing at the bottom,
beneath your sphincter musckles. That guy connects the total lift of
the struts and could
cause those musckles to contract considerably if it fails.
Seatbelts? yah, I am a firm believer, and I want you motorcycle guys
to buckle up too :)
BB
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Flight safety question - chutes |
Being a glider pilot I figure that engine outs are no reason to ever deploy a chute
unless the terrain below is unlandable from a glide.
Why would anyone NOT take chute with them when you can get a hand throwable attached
to the entire aircraft for under $800.
That way you have the advantage of the protective structure and a controlled rate
of descent.....as opposed to a dive straight to the ground.
I think an important consideration is also the mode of failure.
I'd say that critical welds and fittings could break resulting in the folding up
of the wings as one mode....with a resulting tumbling to the ground.
Another could be a failure in the control system to the tail by snapping a cable
or breaking a weld resulting in loss of elevator authority....followed by a
steep dive to the ground?(Unless you have properly trimmed fixed trim tabs)
Another failure could be due to flutter and disintegration of ailerons due to excessive
speed....could result in an unrecoverable roll.
I'd say a chute of most any kind could save your life in those scenarios at more
than 800' AGL
--------
Ray
Riverside County, CA
Do Not Archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144412#144412
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Flight safety question - chutes |
ElleryWeld(at)aol.com wrote:
> Oh so everyone that doesn't have a BRS is a Fool now.
>
First , Don't misquote me, I never said that and I'm sure you well know this.
What I did say is if you have a chute, and remove it, then yes I would consider
you a fool. You like to sound tough and nostalgic talking about dieing
doing what you love, and not growing old.
There were just two guys in a trike in this area that had a failure, and spiraled
into the ground from 1500 feet due to a structural failure. The pilot was
an A&P mechanic, known for the quality of his work, and also a a great guy and
competent pilot. Witnesses said they were flying along in a normal manner when
there was a bang, and then a long spiraling dive. The ensuing fire was to
intense for them to be pulled clear of the wreckage. A BRS would have almost
surely saved them.
Both the Pilot and his passenger were in their 20's.
Do you honestly expect use to buy that these two guys would be OK with dieing in
their 20's , instead of living life, getting married, and flying some really
nest stuff that will surely be developed in the next 50 years ??? If one can
get past the flowery way you made your statement about dieing, thinks about what
you actually said, it is one of the worst things I have ever seen posted.
When I was in high school, I flew my ultralight without a chute. If you don't
have a BRS, and can not afford one, that is understandable. I have been there
and done it. But if you have one, or can easily get one, and don't, yes, I
would consider you a fool. Just as I would consider anyone a fool that took
the airbags out of their car, because they don't want to "grow old" in a nursing
home.
Here is a link to the over 200 documented saves by BRS, listed along with the cause
of deployment:
http://brsparachutes.com/files/Documents/Lives-Saved.pdf
Only an idiot would say that all these 200 guys were careless in their preflights,
and would have been better off by being more careful than having a BRS.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144425#144425
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Flight safety question - chutes |
This is from your words "Only a fool would not take every safety advantage he
can get".
It's a Good thing all people are not alike that was just my opinion and I see
you have yours I take anything you say with a grain of salt because of many
other conversations you have argued to this list in the past
Do you also know why the two young fellas Crashed "Aerobatic manuvers" from
what I understand wich the craft was not designed for if there the same
guys I am thinking about
I will never read another post from you thanks to my Delete Button
Ellery
do not archive
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Flight safety question - chutes |
Ellery,
I have him as a rule in outlook to trash anything from him. Been an A** Hole
from the begining....
ElleryWeld@aol.com wrote:
This is from your words "Only a fool would not take every safety advantage he
can get".
It's a Good thing all people are not alike that was just my opinion and I see
you have yours I take anything you say with a grain of salt because of many
other conversations you have argued to this list in the past
Do you also know why the two young fellas Crashed "Aerobatic manuvers" from
what I understand wich the craft was not designed for if there the same guys
I am thinking about
I will never read another post from you thanks to my Delete Button
Ellery
do not archive
---------------------------------
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Flight safety question - chutes |
:( ......if only everyone could play nice.
C'mon kids lets not be so judgmental and feud.
Constructive criticism is always better.
Its always good to walk a mile in someone else's shoes before criticizing ......that
way they are a mile away and shoe-less before you let em have it [Wink]
--------
Ray
Riverside County, CA
Do Not Archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144446#144446
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Flight safety question - chutes |
I don't have a strong opinion on having a BRS chute, that is why I
haven't spent the money for one. If you are flying on a tight budget,
I think that the money would be better spent on training, engine
overhauls, and maintenance.
As far as the 200 "saves" that BRS likes to talk about, I tend to be a
little wary of that number. There are many true saves on that list,
but there are a lot of deployments due to engine failure. I don't
really think of those all as saves. I have to wonder if those pilots
would have been better off if they had spent the extra money on
training for dead stick landings, engine maintenance, and learning not
to fly over hostile terrain. I also wonder what the failure rate is
for BRS. They don't seem to publish that number. If it was a very
low number, I would think that they would.
There are also risks to having a BRS. Pull that handle and you may be
saved, or you may come down in electrical lines or in front of a
speeding semi. In many instances you are better off flying the plane
to the scene of the crash. Obviously if the wing falls off of your
plane this is another story. There is also a real risk to potential
rescue workers and citizens that try and help you out of your crashed
plane if you did not deploy it. We had a brand new Challenger at our
airport many years ago. A pilot accidentally pulled the handle when
exiting the plane after a flight. It was a windy day and the wind
caught the chute and dragged the plane across a field and into a
fence. It caused a lot of damage.
All in all, the benefits of having a BRS surely outweigh not having
one....just not by much in my book. When I am spiraling in from
1200', you can all say "I told you so."
Bryan Dever
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Flight safety question - chutes |
GOOD ON YOU, ELLERY!
On Nov 7, 2007, at 1:30 PM, Michael Sharp wrote:
> Ellery,
>
> I have him as a rule in outlook to trash anything from him. Been
> an A** Hole from the begining....
>
>
> ElleryWeld@aol.com wrote:
>
> This is from your words "Only a fool would not take every safety
> advantage he can get".
> It's a Good thing all people are not alike that was just my opinion
> and I see you have yours I take anything you say with a grain of
> salt because of many other conversations you have argued to this
> list in the past
>
> Do you also know why the two young fellas
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Flight safety question - chutes |
ElleryWeld(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> Do you also know why the two young fellas Crashed "Aerobatic manuvers" from
what I understand wich the craft was not designed for if there the same guys
I am thinking about [/b]
> I will never read another post from you thanks to my Delete Button
> ]
So what part of " flying along in a normal manner " do you not understand ?? There
were plenty of witnesses and no aerobatics involved.
You posted something downright stupid, and now you are all bitter and reacting
like a baby when someone points it out in public. Personally, I dont care if
you use chute or not. I beleive everyone should have the right to kill themself
if they want. Where I do take issue is where fools like you give this very
BAD advice to others here on the list. Lots of people read this list that
never post, its our responsibility to give them good information.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144458#144458
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Unpleasantness |
List;
I've been amember of this list for a number of years now. There have
been
many reasons that I have enjoyed the information, education &
entertainment
of the members here. Part of my warm regard for the list has always
been
in the things others have accomplished & the methods that they have used
to overcome the trials and challenges of building their own aircraft.
Or efforts
to modify one constructed by someone else.
Recently, I have seen a change in the list. I have realized that I no
longer am
anxious to get to the computer & see the latest offerings from members,
due
in part, to the unexpected, unfounded, often uncalled-for, rantings &
attacks to
several members.
I realize that I am mearly a "lurker" & that I have never owned a Kolb
(this was
not by choice, I assure you). I have, however, flown a couple, & even
had the
distinct honor of flying the late Mr. Dave Pelletier's Firestar on a
couple days.
These things will alwasy remain as milestones to me. Memories of the
good days, & the great friendships that can be developed in this sport.
The reason I am writing this, is that I do not need the silly,
antagonistic, hatred
& flaming that has become the dominant theme on this list. Therefore,
I will
be removing myself from the list. I will miss the true heartfelt
encouragement
that has come from here, as well as the educational experiences of those
of
the list that have given so much of themselves. Not just the negative
things,
like accidents & (to quote some) stupid decisions & such, but, even to
the
point of providing thrue humor & laughter at themselves & us all.
I had hoped I could last until the next Monument Valley UnOfficial
Fly-In,
because I had purchased an aircraft that I had wanted to use there &
meet
all the folks that I've come to know through this list. Who knows,
maybe I'll
be able to make it anyway.
For all the engine info, I can't thank you all enough. My wishes to you
all, are
that you have nothing but Blue Skies & Soft Landings, exactly where you
want
them to be.
George Bass
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Cracking in tubing and welds? |
It was me that posted the comment about cracks and welds on the safety & chutes
thread.
There are no issues that I know of, just merely pondering the hypothetical modes
of failure based on what little experience I have in my Kolb Ultrastar, that
would require a deployment.
I was told by others on this list when I was buying my plane, to look for corrosion
in the tubes since they are not protected internally.
I was also told to look for weak looking welds that may have resulted from a home
repair by a poor welder.
Cracks are more an issue with some types of aluminum parts, as I had a cracked
wing rib that failed at a rivet hole on the leading edge of the wing.
It buckled due to overshrinking the fabric at the wing tip.
No need to be overly concerned, just perform good preflights and check some of
those high stress areas regularly and make sure the corrosion protection is replaced
in those rare areas that start to rust.
--------
Ray
Riverside County, CA
Do Not Archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144467#144467
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Unpleasantness |
George,
Its the nature of online discussions that things can be easily misconstrued, but
like you, I have noticed that there are some members here that seem to feel
it is necessary to insult and degrade someone for having an opinion that does
not match their own.
>From the safety of their own PC they feel it safe to lash out at others in a way
that they could not get away with in person.
I feel sorry for these folks as they must be having a horrible day, or week or
life, but at the same time I understand that everyone has these days at times.
One fellow here recently lost his newly built labor of love to the divorce settlement.....so
I certainly understand it if he blows off some steam here.....which
he has not.
Just don't participate in those threads like changing the channel when the nightly
news is just to gruesome.
Sorry to see you go, come back after a hiatus, perhaps our paths will cross some
day as the Monument Valley trip is becoming a very tantalizing attraction for
many members here.
Your name sounds familiar....did you ever own a Moni?
--------
Ray
Riverside County, CA
Do Not Archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144469#144469
Message 17
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I hear you guys and my Delete button is working great :o) no need to listen
to that BS anymore
Ellery
do not archive
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Unpleasantness |
George, It's a shame that you are going to remove your self from the
list because of a little unplesantness. It appears that you enjoy the
list,and you get alot out of it. now that you 've got a plane, it would
seem to me that this would be the best time for you to stay on the list.
If you see something that you don't like, or something that offends you
,hit the deleat button . Enjoy your life,your plane, and your friends
on the list. that my 2 cents worth hope you reconsider.. Joe N101HD
601XL/RAM
----- Original Message -----
From: George Bass
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 3:08 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Unpleasantness
List;
I've been amember of this list for a number of years now. There have
been
many reasons that I have enjoyed the information, education &
entertainment
of the members here. Part of my warm regard for the list has always
been
in the things others have accomplished & the methods that they have
used
to overcome the trials and challenges of building their own aircraft.
Or efforts
to modify one constructed by someone else.
Recently, I have seen a change in the list. I have realized that I
no longer am
anxious to get to the computer & see the latest offerings from
members, due
in part, to the unexpected, unfounded, often uncalled-for, rantings &
attacks to
several members.
I realize that I am mearly a "lurker" & that I have never owned a Kolb
(this was
not by choice, I assure you). I have, however, flown a couple, &
even had the
distinct honor of flying the late Mr. Dave Pelletier's Firestar on a
couple days.
These things will alwasy remain as milestones to me. Memories of the
good days, & the great friendships that can be developed in this sport.
The reason I am writing this, is that I do not need the silly,
antagonistic, hatred
& flaming that has become the dominant theme on this list.
Therefore, I will
be removing myself from the list. I will miss the true heartfelt
encouragement
that has come from here, as well as the educational experiences of
those of
the list that have given so much of themselves. Not just the
negative things,
like accidents & (to quote some) stupid decisions & such, but, even to
the
point of providing thrue humor & laughter at themselves & us all.
I had hoped I could last until the next Monument Valley UnOfficial
Fly-In,
because I had purchased an aircraft that I had wanted to use there &
meet
all the folks that I've come to know through this list. Who knows,
maybe I'll
be able to make it anyway.
For all the engine info, I can't thank you all enough. My wishes to
you all, are
that you have nothing but Blue Skies & Soft Landings, exactly where
you want
them to be.
George Bass
Message 19
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I hear a lot of grumbling, and hear clearly George Bass'
thoughts...........and here's a valid request from a new member that got
not a single answer. Doesn't anyone have a Mk II manual you can help
him with ??
C'mon guys, lets get back to the good ol' warm ways. Lar.
Carlo Tura wrote:
>
> Good morning,
>
> I'm italian and i don't speak english well.
>
> I'looking for manual of a Kolb MK II.
>
> Is possible find it ?
>
> Thank for your attemption
>
> Charlie
>
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Flight safety question - chutes |
At 10:34 AM 11/7/2007, jb92563 wrote:
>
>Being a glider pilot I figure that engine outs are no reason to ever
>deploy a chute unless the terrain below is unlandable from a glide.
Yet you hear again and again of Cirrus pilots doing it in a panic.
Even if the terrain is unlandable, I'd still fly the airplane down. Even
if you go into the trees, if you go in under control chances are you'll
walk away from it.
Actually my plane already took one reserve ride. The first owner had an
engine failure at 2000' right over the airport, panicked and pulled the
chute... and drifted into power lines.
>Why would anyone NOT take chute with them when you can get a hand
>throwable attached to the entire aircraft for under $800.
Can you still get a hand deployed chute for anything bigger than a hang
glider? If so that'd be real attractive since a new BRS would cost as much
as I paid for my plane.
>Another could be a failure in the control system to the tail by snapping a
>cable or breaking a weld resulting in loss of elevator
>authority....followed by a steep dive to the ground?(Unless you have
>properly trimmed fixed trim tabs)
That's the one that worries me most... when I got my plane it really wanted
to dive when I took my hand off the stick. Now with tabs the hands off
speed is around cruise speed.
-Dana
--
--
But do you trust the _government_ with semi-automatic assault rifles?
Message 21
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I havent got a MkII manual or I would have already helped the guy out as I am
sure many others here would have also. What info is it that you need from
the manual ? maybe somone can help you out if you only need some info instead
of the whole thing.
Ellery Building MK 3 Xtra
do not archive
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Flight safety question - chutes |
Mike
Some (many?) of us wonder about you 'giving good information'.
We recall much earlier posts, apparently from you, and it does give
us cause.
Enough of this jazz. Let's move on -- stop bashing people. Even to
calling them fools.
On Nov 7, 2007, at 2:54 PM, JetPilot wrote:
>
>
> ElleryWeld(at)aol.com wrote:
>>
>>
>> Do you also know why the two young fellas Crashed "Aerobatic
>> manuvers" from what I understand wich the craft was not
>> designed for if there the same guys I am thinking about [/b]
>> I will never read another post from you thanks to my Delete Button
>> ]
>
>
> So what part of " flying along in a normal manner " do you not
> understand ?? There were plenty of witnesses and no aerobatics
> involved.
>
> You posted something downright stupid, and now you are all bitter
> and reacting like a baby when someone points it out in public.
> Personally, I dont care if you use chute or not. I beleive
> everyone should have the right to kill themself if they want.
> Where I do take issue is where fools like you give this very BAD
> advice to others here on the list. Lots of people read this list
> that never post, its our responsibility to give them good information.
>
> Mike
>
> --------
> "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast
> as you could have !!!
>
> Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144458#144458
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Xtra Information |
Hello all,
My name is Chuck and I'm new to the list. Thanks to David Keys, who took
me for a ride in his Xtra this weekend, I'm interested in finding a used
Xtra. But, before I get ahead of myself, I need some honest feedback from
all of you on the suitability of this plane for my purpose.
I can smooth out a good grass runway on my property. Depending on the
arrangement, it can be as long as 700'. There is a fence at the end, but no
tall obstacles. The surrounding area is rural with a lot of options. The
approach to land would be over trees, though (the wind is S 90% of the
time).
My goal is to find a good STOL plane that both myself and a passenger (lets
say 350lbs combined) can take off and safely and routinely on that strip.
The nearest "real"airport is about a 30 minute drive and we could use it for
any extra heavy or extra hot days. This is in north Texas, so flying season
can be pretty hot, but we almost always will have a headwind to take off
into. I need to park the plane in my barn, which would require folding and
unfolding the wings each time.
I searched the archives and found several comments on routine folding, so I
think I'm OK on that. What I really need to hear from all y'all is your
opinion on the T/O & landing distances that you experience in your airplanes
in the real world. TNK says 150'solo/200'dual, but they also say you can
build one in 400 hours ;>. I would also love to hear your opinions on
engine/prop combos for safe STOL operations (that inflight adjustable IVO
looked interesting).
So, before I start travelling around the country looking at used ones, I
need opinions!
Also, anyone know of a good used Xtra for sale?
Thanks,
Chuck
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Xtra Information |
Chuck, with an approach over trees, 700 feet of ground to use, & a fence
at the end, Unless you have exceptional piloting skills, you might want
to join a Helicopter forum, (smiles). kolbs are some of the best stol
aircraft, but dang, that`s short. Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: Chuck McCullough
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 7:26 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Xtra Information
Hello all,
My name is Chuck and I'm new to the list. Thanks to David Keys, who
took me for a ride in his Xtra this weekend, I'm interested in finding a
used Xtra. But, before I get ahead of myself, I need some honest
feedback from all of you on the suitability of this plane for my
purpose.
I can smooth out a good grass runway on my property. Depending on
the arrangement, it can be as long as 700'. There is a fence at the
end, but no tall obstacles. The surrounding area is rural with a lot of
options. The approach to land would be over trees, though (the wind is
S 90% of the time).
My goal is to find a good STOL plane that both myself and a passenger
(lets say 350lbs combined) can take off and safely and routinely on that
strip. The nearest "real"airport is about a 30 minute drive and we
could use it for any extra heavy or extra hot days. This is in north
Texas, so flying season can be pretty hot, but we almost always will
have a headwind to take off into. I need to park the plane in my barn,
which would require folding and unfolding the wings each time.
I searched the archives and found several comments on routine folding,
so I think I'm OK on that. What I really need to hear from all y'all is
your opinion on the T/O & landing distances that you experience in your
airplanes in the real world. TNK says 150'solo/200'dual, but they also
say you can build one in 400 hours ;>. I would also love to hear your
opinions on engine/prop combos for safe STOL operations (that inflight
adjustable IVO looked interesting).
So, before I start travelling around the country looking at used ones,
I need opinions!
Also, anyone know of a good used Xtra for sale?
Thanks,
Chuck
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: cross wind landing |
almost had a bad landing. scuffed a wing tip but did no damage just rubbed
a little paint off and left some dirt. I think i need to work on Xwind
landing malcolm
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Unpleasantness |
I have seen people send such unpleasant postings to the moderator. He can
delete anyone from the list and not even tell anyone. they don't even need to
be directed at yourself . sometimes it feels good to stick up for someone.
mal
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Xtra Information |
Chuck, I have a MKIII Classic with a 582, and fly from a 700' strip. 2
caveats: I take off downhill and land uphill on a slight slope. The
approach to land is over some giant TVA powerlines, but they are about
1200' from touchdown. I do need to lose 300' in 1200' to get it down
after crossing the powerlines, or else fly a close base leg inside the
lines and slam dunk the final. Taking off heavy on a hot day and
clearing the powerlines usually works well, occasionally I need to turn
and parallel the wires until I gain more altitude, but that is not a
problem.
The MKIII & 582 is sufficient for two people in this situation. If the
airstrip was perfectly flat, hot day and no headwind, I would not be
comfortable flying heavy. Not that the airplane wouldn't do it, but I
would not be comfortable. (And I try not to do things that I am not
comfortable with. Bad for the blood pressure...)
Something that is uncertain from your post is how far away the trees are
- If they are right at the edge of your property and cannot be cut down
- give it up. If they are several hundred yards away, no problem.
Hope this helps.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
----- Original Message -----
From: Chuck McCullough
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 8:26 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Xtra Information
Hello all,
My name is Chuck and I'm new to the list. Thanks to David Keys, who
took me for a ride in his Xtra this weekend, I'm interested in finding a
used Xtra. But, before I get ahead of myself, I need some honest
feedback from all of you on the suitability of this plane for my
purpose.
I can smooth out a good grass runway on my property. Depending on
the arrangement, it can be as long as 700'. There is a fence at the
end, but no tall obstacles. The surrounding area is rural with a lot of
options. The approach to land would be over trees, though (the wind is
S 90% of the time).
My goal is to find a good STOL plane that both myself and a passenger
(lets say 350lbs combined) can take off and safely and routinely on that
strip. The nearest "real"airport is about a 30 minute drive and we
could use it for any extra heavy or extra hot days. This is in north
Texas, so flying season can be pretty hot, but we almost always will
have a headwind to take off into. I need to park the plane in my barn,
which would require folding and unfolding the wings each time.
I searched the archives and found several comments on routine folding,
so I think I'm OK on that. What I really need to hear from all y'all is
your opinion on the T/O & landing distances that you experience in your
airplanes in the real world. TNK says 150'solo/200'dual, but they also
say you can build one in 400 hours ;>. I would also love to hear your
opinions on engine/prop combos for safe STOL operations (that inflight
adjustable IVO looked interesting).
So, before I start travelling around the country looking at used ones,
I need opinions!
Also, anyone know of a good used Xtra for sale?
Thanks,
Chuck
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