---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 11/08/07: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:54 AM - Re: Xtra Information (Denny Rowe) 2. 08:26 AM - Re: Xtra Information (Vic Peters) 3. 08:54 AM - Re: Unpleasantness (pat ladd) 4. 10:20 AM - I still like the Kolb List (olendorf) 5. 11:15 AM - Re: Unpleasantness (GeoR38@aol.com) 6. 01:46 PM - Re: Unpleasantness (Richard & Martha Neilsen) 7. 04:17 PM - Re: Xtra Information (Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL) 8. 06:41 PM - Re: Re: Flight safety question - chutes (Richard Girard) 9. 07:18 PM - Re: Xtra Information (ElleryWeld@aol.com) 10. 09:42 PM - Re: Re: Xtra Information (Robert Laird) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:54:35 AM PST US From: "Denny Rowe" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Xtra Information I would also love to hear your opinions on engine/prop combos for safe STOL operations (that inflight adjustable IVO looked interesting). So, before I start travelling around the country looking at used ones, I need opinions! Also, anyone know of a good used Xtra for sale? Thanks, Chuck Chuck,For the best Stol performance as well as reliability you want a Rotax 912 for power. The speed range of Kolbs makes inflight adjustable props impracticle.While the IVO seems to work decent on smaller two strokes, for the 912 I would go with a tapered tip Warp Drive prop or maybe a Powerfin.Both of those are way higher quality than an IVO. Warp props are hands down the toughest.Good luck and be sure to check Barnstormers.com.Denny RoweMk-3, 2SI 690L-70, Powerfin ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:26:50 AM PST US From: "Vic Peters" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Xtra Information Hey Chuck, I may have one for you. Is 3hrs. used enough. 912 ul with 250 to 280 hrs. Owner said 250 Lockwood Aviation said 280. They disassembled , inspected and reassembled it before I purchased it. 70" 3 blade Warp. Full Lotus also available, with rudders , no rigging need some minor work. GOT LAKE? I'm on the FAA list for ELSA airworthiness Inspection in my state, Me., waiting. Ellery may punish me for selling before I learn to fly it. He has flown it during it's brief life as a registered UL trainer. He now has his own Xtra kit, he's a builder not a buyer. Contact me off list if you'd like. vicsvinyl@verizon.net Vic ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:54:08 AM PST US From: "pat ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Unpleasantness Recently, I have seen a change in the list. >> George, dont go. You are quite right there has been a change in tone on the list recently and it is to be deplored. However these things come and go on every list. Some people are just adversarial by nature and their replies always seem to be couched in stronger terms than necessary. It isn`t worth foregoing all the the years of friendliness and help that are the norm just because one or two listers seem to have a burr under their saddle. Just ignore it, hit the delete and wait a while . Things will settle down .Besides, we can`t afford to lose the nice guys. Cheers Pat ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:20:57 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: I still like the Kolb List From: "olendorf" This is not a sales pitch but since I recently contributed to Matts fund raiser I have been thinking about how this list is worth the money to me. Here are a few of the items that came to mind that directly resulted from this list. I flew the 300 miles to Pennsylvania 3 times. GREAT trips that I will remember forever. Thanks to Terry for setting up the fly-ins to Homers farm where I met all the great Kolb flyers. I especially liked meeting Homer Kolb, John Hauck and John Williamson. Also during these trips I attended the Shrevesport North fly-ins which are very well attended and they have a great campground. There is nothing like flying out of Smoketown airport and seeing Amish farmers plowing behind 6 horses. Flying in formation with 8 or 9 other Kolbs. Wow, what people on the ground must have thought. Speaking of great flying places to relocate, I would think about Pennsylvania. Those people sure are nice. I also get tons of good info on everything from engine maintenance to VGs, and elevator reinforcements. How many lives does this list save each year? Ill bet its more than 2. I get to see pictures of other Kolb trips. Monument valley, Alaska, Idaho. Where else do you get these? Ill be rebuilding my windshield with inspiration from PlaneCrazys windshield. I wish I could weld aluminum like that but I cant so Ill do what I can. How many guys are sad for Paul Petty having to sell his Kolbra? Me too. I could sure use a Beauford story about now. P.S. Also with my contribution I am getting the Rotax DVD gift. That looks like it might be pretty good. P.P.S. Regarding the recent bad stuff on the list. This seems to happen every fall/winter. Maybe people are not getting their flying fix. I know Im not getting mine. -------- Scott Olendorf Original Firestar, Rotax 447, Powerfin prop Schenectady, NY http://KolbFirestar.googlepages.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144607#144607 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:15:09 AM PST US From: GeoR38@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Unpleasantness In a message dated 11/8/2007 11:55:23 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, pj.ladd@btinternet.com writes: George, dont go. You are quite right there has been a change in tone on the list recently and it is to be deplored. However these things come and go on every list. Some people are just adversarial by nature and their replies always seem to be couched in stronger terms than necessary. It isn`t worth foregoing all the the years of friendliness and help that are the norm just because one or two listers seem to have a burr under their saddle. Just ignore it, hit the delete and wait a while . Things will settle down .Besides, we can`t afford to lose the nice guys. Cheers Pat I,m one of the good guys, but don't talk much....kinda typical of a good guy actually.... George Randolph Firestar driver from Florida do not archive ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:46:48 PM PST US From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Unpleasantness George Please don't go. I have been bad and I promise to be better. How about hearing from the Non Rotax folks out there. Is anybody flying anything new? Do not archive Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIC ----- Original Message ----- From: George Bass To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 3:08 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Unpleasantness List; I've been amember of this list for a number of years now. There have been many reasons that I have enjoyed the information, education & entertainment of the members here. Part of my warm regard for the list has always been in the things others have accomplished & the methods that they have used to overcome the trials and challenges of building their own aircraft. Or efforts to modify one constructed by someone else. Recently, I have seen a change in the list. I have realized that I no longer am anxious to get to the computer & see the latest offerings from members, due in part, to the unexpected, unfounded, often uncalled-for, rantings & attacks to several members. I realize that I am mearly a "lurker" & that I have never owned a Kolb (this was not by choice, I assure you). I have, however, flown a couple, & even had the distinct honor of flying the late Mr. Dave Pelletier's Firestar on a couple days. These things will alwasy remain as milestones to me. Memories of the good days, & the great friendships that can be developed in this sport. The reason I am writing this, is that I do not need the silly, antagonistic, hatred & flaming that has become the dominant theme on this list. Therefore, I will be removing myself from the list. I will miss the true heartfelt encouragement that has come from here, as well as the educational experiences of those of the list that have given so much of themselves. Not just the negative things, like accidents & (to quote some) stupid decisions & such, but, even to the point of providing thrue humor & laughter at themselves & us all. I had hoped I could last until the next Monument Valley UnOfficial Fly-In, because I had purchased an aircraft that I had wanted to use there & meet all the folks that I've come to know through this list. Who knows, maybe I'll be able to make it anyway. For all the engine info, I can't thank you all enough. My wishes to you all, are that you have nothing but Blue Skies & Soft Landings, exactly where you want them to be. George Bass ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:17:47 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Xtra Information From: "Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL" "Chuck McCullough" asked: << ... you experience in your airplanes in the real world. TNK says 150'solo/200'dual, but they also say you can build one in 400 hours. Thanks, Chuck >> Chuck - Although I built and fly a Mark-III "Classic," see if you think my real-world experience help: It took me 540 hours to build mine. However, this included a few mods beyond the stock airplane, such as a fold-down instrument panel and wingtip hand-holds. At a field elevation of 6500' msl, my Kolb is off the ground in less than 300 feet, solo. And this is usually at density altitudes approaching 8000' as it is often quite hot here. The 912 is an ideal match for the Mark-III. I was amazed at the improved takeoff performance (shorter takeoff distance) I experienced while flying in the "lowlands" of Monument Valley with the group last May! (elev. 5100') I'm sure your takeoff distances would be shorter in Texas. Dennis Kirby Cedar Crest, NM p.s. - who is "Ally'all?" do not archive ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:41:18 PM PST US From: "Richard Girard" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Flight safety question - chutes Ellery, I think you hit on something without realizing it 2/3 of BRS is BS. Good thinking. :-) Rick On Nov 7, 2007 1:54 PM, JetPilot wrote: > > > ElleryWeld(at)aol.com wrote: > > > > > > Do you also know why the two young fellas Crashed "Aerobatic manuvers" from what I understand wich the craft was not designed for if there the same guys I am thinking about [/b] > > I will never read another post from you thanks to my Delete Button > > ] > > > So what part of " flying along in a normal manner " do you not understand ?? There were plenty of witnesses and no aerobatics involved. > > You posted something downright stupid, and now you are all bitter and reacting like a baby when someone points it out in public. Personally, I dont care if you use chute or not. I beleive everyone should have the right to kill themself if they want. Where I do take issue is where fools like you give this very BAD advice to others here on the list. Lots of people read this list that never post, its our responsibility to give them good information. > > Mike > > -------- > "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! > > Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144458#144458 > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:18:52 PM PST US From: ElleryWeld@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Xtra Information Vic are you nuts ? you keep that plane ! You just finished it ,I will get you going in it as soon as you have the airworthyness slip on it, Hey Guys Vic has lost his mind dont pay attention to him I hope its just a temporary thing he has been tipping the bottle a bit to much lately Ellery do not archive ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:42:59 PM PST US From: "Robert Laird" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Xtra Information Here in SE Texas, with a 912S on a MkIIIC, I take off in about 200 feet, solo, if I use my flaps... clean, it's about 400 feet (but I'm not really trying too hard). Ascent rate in the summer is as much as 1400 fpm if I try hard... on my typical "no sweat" take off, it'll be 1000 fpm. Either is like an elevator ride. While I could routinely operate out of the 700 foot strip described, I definitely wouldn't recommend it unless the pilot had at least 100 hours in the MkIII. Too many things to go wrong in too little space; power, flaps and ungodly ascent rates only get you so far. -- Robert P.S. When I first moved in to my airport home, my neighbor came out to watch my take off, with a portable aviation radio in his hand to talk to me... he flys a Cessna.... he was standing next to my wife and, later, she told me he said "Holy sh--!" when I took off, and then, a moment later, to me over the radio he says, "Is that all ya got?" (He hadn't broadcasted his first comment!) :-) On 11/8/07, Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL wrote: > > Dennis.Kirby@kirtland.af.mil> > > "Chuck McCullough" asked: << ... you experience in your airplanes in > the real world. TNK says 150'solo/200'dual, but they also say you can > build one in 400 hours. Thanks, Chuck >> > > Chuck - > > Although I built and fly a Mark-III "Classic," see if you think my > real-world experience help: > > It took me 540 hours to build mine. However, this included a few mods > beyond the stock airplane, such as a fold-down instrument panel and > wingtip hand-holds. > > At a field elevation of 6500' msl, my Kolb is off the ground in less > than 300 feet, solo. And this is usually at density altitudes > approaching 8000' as it is often quite hot here. The 912 is an ideal > match for the Mark-III. > > I was amazed at the improved takeoff performance (shorter takeoff > distance) I experienced while flying in the "lowlands" of Monument > Valley with the group last May! (elev. 5100') > > I'm sure your takeoff distances would be shorter in Texas. > > Dennis Kirby > Cedar Crest, NM > p.s. - who is "Ally'all?" > do not archive > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.