Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:08 AM - Please Make a Contribution to Support Your Lists... (Matt Dralle)
1. 12:23 AM - Re: Re: Big Twin 4 stroke? Mil surplus (herbgh@juno.com)
2. 03:58 AM - Re: cutting and drilling Lexan (Denny Rowe)
3. 04:19 AM - Drilling Lexan (Lanny Fetterman)
4. 04:58 AM - Re: cutting and drilling Lexan (Russ Kinne)
5. 05:07 AM - Re: cutting and drilling Lexan (Richard Pike)
6. 05:58 AM - Re: 2 stroke vs 4 stroke (olendorf)
7. 06:35 AM - Drill bit for plastic (Richard Girard)
8. 06:46 AM - Re: Re: 2 stroke vs 4 stroke (Richard Girard)
9. 07:34 AM - Re: 2 stroke vs 4 stroke (lucien)
10. 12:01 PM - Re: cutting and drilling Lexan (Jim Baker)
11. 12:03 PM - Re: Re: 2 stroke vs 4 stroke (Mike Welch)
12. 12:19 PM - Re: cutting and drilling Lexan (Mike Welch)
13. 12:57 PM - Re: 2 stroke vs 4 stroke (lucien)
14. 01:09 PM - Re: cutting and drilling Lexan (robert bean)
15. 01:26 PM - Re: Re: 2 stroke vs 4 stroke (Jim Baker)
16. 02:18 PM - Re: cutting and drilling Lexan (Southern Reflections)
17. 04:51 PM - The downside of a great paint job (Dana Hague)
18. 05:24 PM - What do you do with a Kolb? (John Williamson)
19. 05:33 PM - Re: The downside of a great paint job (DANIEL WALTER)
20. 05:33 PM - BRS revisited (Mike Welch)
21. 05:45 PM - Re: The downside of a great paint job (Dana Hague)
22. 06:03 PM - Re: The downside of a great paint job (planecrazzzy)
23. 06:11 PM - Re: What do you do with a Kolb? (WhiskeyVictor36@AOL.COM)
24. 06:19 PM - Re: Oil Injection Pump (Mike Matuszczak)
25. 06:26 PM - Re: Oil Injection Pump (Richard Pike)
26. 06:26 PM - Re: Re: 2 stroke vs 4 stroke (Richard Girard)
27. 06:44 PM - Re: BRS revisited (Richard Girard)
28. 06:59 PM - Re: Re: 2 stroke vs 4 stroke (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
29. 07:07 PM - Re: What do you do with a Kolb? (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
30. 07:54 PM - 2 Stroke engines (bmwbikecrz@aol.com)
31. 09:42 PM - Re: Re: 2 stroke vs 4 stroke (Mike Welch)
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| Subject: | Please Make a Contribution to Support Your Lists... |
Just a reminder that November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Please make a Contribution
today to support the continued operation and upgrade of these great
List services!! And pick up a really nice free gift with your qualifying Contribution
too!
The Contribution Site is fast and easy:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Big Twin 4 stroke? Mil surplus |
125 to 130 lbs fairly well stripped,aluminum prop hub, over 40 horses..
220+ lbs of static thrust.. 084 mil surplus engine..
A friend of mines numbers.. I sold him the engine for 250 and he zero
timed it for less than 200 more..Looks promising..
A full VW with 69 mm crank and 94 jugs would weigh a bit more
,stripped, one mag, and put out much more thrust .. Cheap to build and
maintain too..
However..my Global with 78.5 stroke and 92 jugs is 84 lbs and puts out
35 to 37 hp. Herb
On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 00:02:24 -0600 "Richard Girard" <jindoguy@gmail.com>
writes:
> <jindoguy@gmail.com>
>
> At the weight you're quoting for the big twin, which is entirely in
> line with the weights listed for the Vanguard and Honda V Twin
> industrial engines, the Continental A084 becomes real attractive.
> They
> can still be had for under $1000 and you get the designed in
> balance
> of the flat 4.
>
> Rick
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: cutting and drilling Lexan |
Mike,
The stepped Unibits work great on Lexan and leave no burr.
I cut all the curved lexan for my Mk-3 with a Dremel tool and cutting disks,
than sanded the edges smooth with sandpaper.
Any straight cuts can be done on a sheet metal shear, deburr- deburr-deburr.
Don't peal the protective paper off till you have to.
Deny Rowe
Message 3
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When I constructed my doors, I drilled the Lexan and aluminum tubing with a
regular 1/8 inch drill bit and used clecos as I went. After everything was
fitted I redrilled the Lexan holes to 9/64. I used aluminum rivets to
finish the project. After a few years I did develop one small crack about a
half inch long at one of the rivets. When I went Experimental, I was able
to cover the crack with the Experimental sticker.
Lanny N598LF FSII (fully inclosed)
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: cutting and drilling Lexan |
Mike
In working with Lexan, remember you canNOT polish out scratches
successfully. Avoid them instead.
On Nov 18, 2007, at 1:38 AM, Mike Welch wrote:
>
>
> I'm so gun-shy now, about wrecking more pieces, I wonder if I
> should just buy the factory drill bit. I guess if you have a
> drawing of the correct shape of the cutting tip, then I ought to
> try and make one, and do lots of practicing. I know Richard said
> true Lexan is pretty durable, but even still, there is a right way
> and wrong way, and I'd prefer to just stay with the right way, at
> this point.
>
> Thanks, I'll look forward to the picture in the morning, Mike
>
>
>> Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 00:27:20 -0600
>> From: jindoguy@gmail.com
>> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: cutting and drilling Lexan
>>
>>
>> Mike, I use the same grind for Lexan that I use for very soft metals.
>> I touch the cutting edge of the drill flute so that the cutting face
>> is parallel to the center axis of the drill. This flat face only has
>> to be .02 to .03 wide. It makes the drill shave off the material
>> as it
>> cuts and it doesn't get sucked through as the drill exits the sheet.
>> Hope that makes sense. I have a sketch somewhere. I'll try to find it
>> in the morning while I'm having my coffee transfusion.
>> I know some on this list recommend aviation shears or big scissors
>> and
>> that works great if you have really good arthritis drugs. My hands
>> cramp up too badly for me to use them for anything more than short
>> cuts. I like carbide grit saw blades, either round of jig saw style
>> work fine.
>>
>> Rick
>>
>> On Nov 17, 2007 11:48 PM, Mike Welch wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Kolb builder guys,
>>>
>>> I began cutting the Lexan for my doors on the MkIII and managed
>>> to crack one. I wasn't trying to cut the exact fit, just sort of
>>> close, so I could handle the piece easier. But, a crack snapped a
>>> huge corner off and now the rest is too small to use, so I have
>>> to get another piece. Crud!! And seeing as how I screwed up one
>>> of the pieces, I thought I'd ask for some help from anyone who
>>> figures they've got Lexan fabrication down to a science!
>>>
>>> Yes, I have read up on some pointers from the internet, like
>>> scoring with a sheetrock knife, and ONLY using a special drillbit
>>> made for drilling into plastic, but is there any additonal tips
>>> and tricks you guys know?
>>>
>>> Like, is water needed for cooling to drill a hole, or is the bit
>>> all you need?
>>>
>>> Any useful pointers would be much appreciated.
>>>
>>> Thanks, Mike Welch....... windowless in SW Utah
>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>> Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live.
>>> http://www.windowslive.com/connect.html?
>>> ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Wave2_newways_112007
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Put your friends on the big screen with Windows Vista + Windows
> Live.
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Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: cutting and drilling Lexan |
Make your screw or rivet holes slightly oversize. The attachment points
ought to go through flat, don't put it in a bind by making it bend where
the attachment goes through. If you use rivets, only use aluminum ones.
Leave it a little room to expand and contract. And never allow Stits
reducer, acetone, MEK or superglue to get close to it. Cutting Lexan, I
lay a width of duct tape where I want to cut so the saber saw won't mar
it, use a metal cutting blade and go for it. Dress the edges with the
bench grinder, and then sandpaper, once again protecting the area
adjacent to the edge with tape. Blow the chips away with air if the
surface is uncovered, they will scratch the surface, and don't pull the
covering material off until the last second.
I don't have any good methods for Plexiglas or acrylic, if it isn't
Lexan, I don't want to fool with it, I leave that to the really careful
people.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Mike Welch wrote:
>
>
> Actually, you're right. The first piece I just screwed up today was plexiglass.
But, years ago, when I installed the Lexan windshield on my MkIII, I evidently
didn't do it correctly then, either. I ended up getting tons of cracks
off the mounting holes I drilled.
>
> So, after admitting I've not taken the fabrication correctly and seriously
enough, I want to only proceed the right way.
>
> So, what have you got for me? Tips, pointers, criticisms? Hmm? Mike
W.
>
>
>
>> Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 00:53:33 -0500
>> From: richard@bcchapel.org
>> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: cutting and drilling Lexan
>>
>>
>> Are you sure it's Lexan? Sounds like Plexiglas or acrylic. Lexan you can
>> beat on it or bend the fool out of it and it ignores you.
>>
>> Richard Pike
>> MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
>>
>> Mike Welch wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Kolb builder guys,
>>>
>>> I began cutting the Lexan for my doors on the MkIII and managed to crack one.
I wasn't trying to cut the exact fit, just sort of close, so I could handle
the piece easier. But, a crack snapped a huge corner off and now the rest is
too small to use, so I have to get another piece. Crud!! And seeing as how I screwed
up one of the pieces, I thought I'd ask for some help from anyone who figures
they've got Lexan fabrication down to a science!
>>>
>>> Yes, I have read up on some pointers from the internet, like scoring with a
sheetrock knife, and ONLY using a special drillbit made for drilling into plastic,
but is there any additonal tips and tricks you guys know?
>>>
>>> Like, is water needed for cooling to drill a hole, or is the bit all you need?
>>>
>>> Any useful pointers would be much appreciated.
>>>
>>> Thanks, Mike Welch....... windowless in SW Utah
>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>> Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live.
>>> http://www.windowslive.com/connect.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Wave2_newways_112007
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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>
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Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: 2 stroke vs 4 stroke |
But how many crankshafts and other expensive parts do they sell each year? I would
keep the 503 and sell it at a lose if you have to and keep the parts orders
rolling in.
--------
Scott Olendorf
Original Firestar, Rotax 447, Powerfin prop
Schenectady, NY
http://KolbFirestar.googlepages.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=146846#146846
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| Subject: | Drill bit for plastic |
Here's a very basic drawing of the drill bit sharpening I use for soft
metal and plastic. The view on the right is looking at the cutting
face, on the left looking at it on edge.
Rick
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| Subject: | Re: 2 stroke vs 4 stroke |
Pretty cryptic there, Scott. I assume you're talking about Rotax
production numbers of two strokes. It would be an interesting study to
find out how many Rotax two stroke owners follow the maintenance plan
to the letter. You also have to figure in all the bogus parts floating
around on eBay and elsewhere.
We'll get an idea from the small segment of the S-LSA guys who buy
aircraft with a 503 or 582. They have to follow the maintenance
schedule or their airworthiness certificate is void. Or they can go
E-LSA.
Rick
On Nov 18, 2007 7:57 AM, olendorf <olendorf@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> But how many crankshafts and other expensive parts do they sell each year? I
would keep the 503 and sell it at a lose if you have to and keep the parts orders
rolling in.
>
> --------
> Scott Olendorf
> Original Firestar, Rotax 447, Powerfin prop
> Schenectady, NY
> http://KolbFirestar.googlepages.com
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=146846#146846
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: 2 stroke vs 4 stroke |
jindoguy(at)gmail.com wrote:
> Pretty cryptic there, Scott. I assume you're talking about Rotax
> production numbers of two strokes. It would be an interesting study to
> find out how many Rotax two stroke owners follow the maintenance plan
> to the letter. You also have to figure in all the bogus parts floating
> around on eBay and elsewhere.
> We'll get an idea from the small segment of the S-LSA guys who buy
> aircraft with a 503 or 582. They have to follow the maintenance
> schedule or their airworthiness certificate is void. Or they can go
> E-LSA.
>
> Rick
>
This should also be partially true for the 912 series. In a lot of cases I hear
about, they're also throwing away perfectly good parts at 1500 hours when they
get majored. Even now, flight training operations using the 912 are getting
2500 to 3000 hours out of them with the motors still running fine at that time.
I personally don't know anyone who's actually succeeded in literally wearing out
a 912 to normal end-of-life, i.e. where it's starting to use oil, lose power,
and just generally doing the normal falling apart. Unless the maint. was done
wrong, I don't think this happens at 1500 hours currently.
I have seen a couple 2-strokes that have worn to that point, but that's because
the overall lifetime is shorter and thus visible. Same thing here tho, I've never
seen one worn out at 300 hours unless it was abused in some way.
So I think either engine will enrage each SLSA owner equally; both will be foreced
to throw away still-good innards for new ones at the well-known crushingly
high prices at the book values of 300 and 1500 hours.
More wrinkles:
The 912 has become staggeringly expensive to buy and worse to put parts in; its
cost overall is now about the same as the big-iron (a factory new basic O-320
can be had for only slightly more than a new 912S).
Also, I think the current drop in 2-stroke sales is only because of the furor surrounding
the approaching death of "gELSA" at end of Jan. and all the hype from
FnAA, EAA and everyone else about getting N-numbered else the world will come
to an end for light aircraft.
Once that dies down, I predict the light a/c market in the 40 to 50 hp range will
start to come back. Rotax is also doing the right thing by hedging on this
- they're not discontinuing the motors right away but in a few years (2012 wasn't
it?) and then continuing parts for 10 years after that.
Further more, the 912 is getting _more_ expensive even as the supply increases,
not less, and the current spook about gELSA going away won't be permanent. The
flying public is not getting richer, we're actually steadily getting poorer
as the economy erodes and our paychecks stay the same. The folklore of the FnAA
busting every illegal airplane out there will also wear off over time.
So I don't see the 912 taking over the world - the underlying fundamentals of buying
power simply isn't there for that to happen. The economy isn't that good
and our paychecks aren't getting larger at the required rate. There'll be a market
for small, inexpensive motors, hopefully enough for Rotax to keep making
the 447 and 503, or at least extending the support for them for a while.
So I'm not really worried yet...
That's what my crystal ball says anyway...
LS
--------
LS
FS II
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=146866#146866
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| Subject: | cutting and drilling Lexan |
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (4.41)
X-SpamReason %%SpamReason%%:
> I'm so gun-shy now, about wrecking more pieces,
Don't be.....
http://www.rplastics.com/plasticdrill.html
Really easy to do. I generally drill large enough to insert a brass
grommet in a rubber grommet in the Lexan and let the Lexan float.
Jim Baker
580.788.2779
Elmore City, OK
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: 2 stroke vs 4 stroke |
Lucien, Interesting and thoughtful "take" on the future of Rotax, an
d the high prices to own one. While it is true they are probably the leader
in the SLSA & ESLA field , from our experience, anytime a product raises i
ts prices so high the masses can barely afford it, along comes competition.
And competition is a good thing. Not only does it give us consumers a choic
e, finally, but we also get the advantage of the new technology and improve
ments, when deciding on a competitive product.Case in point is the HKS. Thi
s engine is taking a small foothold in the Rotax 503 normally dominated fie
ld.As the reliability and ,therefore, popularity increases, we pilots benef
it in being able to choose an engine that fits our preferences, and this he
lps hold down the price of other similar products. The fact is, I would lik
e to see other engine companies make an engine for the experimental aircraf
t planes. Companies like Harley Davidson, Briggs and Stratton, and Honda, e
tc., etc. And I'm not talking about "conversions", where someone "adapts" a
redrive unit to an existing motor (like Hog-Air), I'm talking about the en
gine manufacturer actually producing a 60-100 hp range of true aircraft eng
ines. Much like Jabiru did. Lately I have been looking at some of the other
engine choices. Personally, I am NOT looking to get a new engine, I will b
e staying with my GEO 1.0 liter 3 cyl., turbo, but I do like to see what ot
her alternatives are out there.If I had to do it all over, I think I could
have seriously considered a big bore VW based conversion like Great Plains
Engines, or Aero-Vee Engines. http://www.greatplainsas.com/ http://www.aero
conversions.com/ Mike Welch MkIII with GEO turbo Do Not Archive
_________________________________________________________________
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07
Message 12
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| Subject: | cutting and drilling Lexan |
Thanks for the tips, guys. I think I'm on the right path now. Especially since
I am now working on Genuine Lexan. The drill bit drawing Rick G. sent really
helped, too.
I have practically mounted one complete door window. Completely drilled, and now
I have to do the final perimeter cut. Thanks again. I didn't realize the
vast difference between Lexan and Plexiglass. Oops.
Anyway, we back in bidniss. Mike Welch
Do Not Archive
> From: jlbaker@msbit.net
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 13:58:54 -0600
> Subject: RE: Kolb-List: cutting and drilling Lexan
>
>
> X-SpamReason %%SpamReason%%:
>
>> I'm so gun-shy now, about wrecking more pieces,
>
> Don't be.....
>
> http://www.rplastics.com/plasticdrill.html
>
> Really easy to do. I generally drill large enough to insert a brass
> grommet in a rubber grommet in the Lexan and let the Lexan float.
>
>
> Jim Baker
> 580.788.2779
> Elmore City, OK
>
>
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Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: 2 stroke vs 4 stroke |
[quote="mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co"]
> Lucien, Interesting and thoughtful "take" on the future of Rotax, and the high prices to own one. While it is true they are probably the leader in the SLSA & ESLA field , from our experience, anytime a product raises its prices so high the masses can barely afford it, along comes competition.And competition is a good thing. Not only does it give us consumers a choice, finally, but we also get the advantage of the new technology and improvements, when deciding on a competitive product.Case in point is the HKS. This engine is taking a small foothold in the Rotax 503 normally dominated field.As the reliability and ,therefore, popularity increases, we pilots benefit in being able to choose an engine that fits our preferences, and this helps hold down the price of other similar products. The fact is, I would like to see other engine companies make an engine for the experimental aircraft planes. Companies like Harley Davidson, Briggs and Stratton, and Honda, etc., etc. And I'm not talking about "conversions", where someone "adapts" a redrive unit to an existing motor (like Hog-Air), I'm talking about the engine manufacturer actually producing a 60-100 hp range of true aircraft engines. Much like Jabiru did. Lately I have been looking at some of the other engine choices. Personally, I am NOT looking to get a new engine, I will be staying with my GEO 1.0 liter 3 cyl., turbo, but I do like to see what other alternatives are out there.If I had to do it all over, I think I could have seriously considered a big bore VW based conversion like Great Plains Engines, or Aero-Vee Engines. http://www.greatplainsas.com/ (http://www.greatplainsas.com/) http://www.aeroconversions.com/ (http://www.aeroconversions.com/) Mike Welch MkIII with GEO turbo Do Not Archive
Well there are a couple other complications with this that have to do with the
40 to 50 hp light a/c market (I like to call it).
a) As I said before, this market was very slow to adopt the 912 even back when
it was reasonably priced - now with its cost is in the ludicrous GA territory
its attraction to that market is about nil. The fundamentals for the 912 to penetrate
this market are simply NOT there. The money isn't there, the growth of
the buying power of those customers won't reach that level in a reasonable amount
of time (if ever).
This was one of the big expectations of the whole light sport movement and it was
a big mistake.
The 912 and motors like the HKS aren't quite head to head competitors, since they
power different planes for the most part. So really the success of the HKS
isn't going to affect much the 912's situation.
The jabiru, on the other hand, has an opportunity here, though there are problems
with it too (its cost is also going up soon, it's got some installation related
bugs here and there, etc.).
b) The 40/50 hp light a/c market will NOT simply vanish. The expectation of the
LSA movement seems to have been that suddenly everyone would get tired of their
single-place UL like planes, small trikes, and other light planes and decide
they wanted larger, faster 4-stroke powered planes of the LSA variety. I guess
they thought the planes would just sell themselves once the light a/c pilots
all woke up and saw the error of their ways.
Some would say that this is actually happening now - people are suddenly somehow
content to opt for boats or computer games instead of flying an airplane through
the air and the whole UL flying thing is imploding for good.
I think this is a mistake - true it's in a lull right now, and a deep one, but
like I said this is more sensationalism driven by the expiration of gELSA and
the hoopla surrounding LSA than it is a sudden shift in the human race away from
interest in flying light aircraft.
Forgetting this market going forward will be a large error I think.
c) Now the 912's competition besides the jab is basically the big iron. It hinges
only on the legal issue - its the suitable pwerplant for LSA far more than
the big iron that costs about the same.
The GA market, that would otherwise be buying used GA airplanes, DOES have the
buying power for a 20 grand 912S, and will buy the 100k planes it powers for a
while.
But the law of supply and demand can NOT support an _increasing_ price when supply
continues to meet demand. It just doesn't work that way. Either supply has
to tighten to maintain the cost increase (this would be very bad for Rotax) or
demand has to rise dramatically, more dramatically than it is now (and I don't
see that happening, we're already about in the Good Old Days of LSA at this
point).
This includes the exchange rate issue which amounts to a huge price hike - Rotax
still has to deal with that and yes they truly are in a pickle with it.
The market also can't support increasing prices once they reach the level of viable
competitors. This is a mixed bag - in some areas, like GA training, even
exorbitant prices like 110 grand for an SLSA are far cheaper than the competition
(third of a million for a new Cessna). In others, like the experimental market,
there'll be trouble. I.e. if you're going to drop 100 grand on a plane,
will it be a CTsw SLSA or a Vans RV-8 quick build + tools + goodies?
Don't know about you, but medical or not, if I have to drop 100 large on an airplane
I'm going for the best bang/buck which would be the RV.
In any case, the 912 is actually in a more precarious position than it used to
be and Rotax will have to do something about it pretty quick. But at the same
time, I don't see a permanent disappearance of the market for motors like the
447 and 503, or the HKS, etc.
Finally, I don't know about the 582. I might ring up lockwood next week and see
what its status is...
LS
--------
LS
FS II
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=146936#146936
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| Subject: | Re: cutting and drilling Lexan |
Like Richard Pike says, tape the surface for protection. Wide
masking will do.
Mark with a black felt tip. Cut with a good orbital saber saw.
Finish rougher areas or that need contouring with a belt sander, in
line with the edge,
not across. Finer touch up with a mill file.
Holes slightly oversize. -Large aluminum fabric rivets worked well
for me on the doors.
For the windshield I used stainless 10-32s into nutserts so I can pop
it off if I want.
(My windshield posts are steel)
I also used GE MR2 scratch resistant sheet. Still looks like new. -
expensive
but one sheet has provided my windshield, wing root fences, and doors.
Pleasant surprise for an old cheapskate.
BB
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| Subject: | Re: 2 stroke vs 4 stroke |
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (4.41)
X-SpamReason %%SpamReason%%:
> Rotax
production numbers of two strokes. It would be an interesting study
to
find out how many Rotax two stroke owners follow the maintenance
plan
to the letter. You also have to figure in all the bogus parts
floating
around
I'd think that it would be instructive (entertaining, as well) to
have a side-by-side teardown, micrometer/caliper/bore gauge/ Rockwell
hardness test and documentation of a Skidoo Rotax 503 and a UL Rotax
503 to find the differences. My guess....either none at all or darn
few. Bore/stroke, ring width, deck height, bearing numbers, con rod
forging numbers...all of these and a lot more are exactly the same.
Jim Baker
580.788.2779
Elmore City, OK
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: cutting and drilling Lexan |
If you are using Lexan and not Plexiglass you have nothing to be gun shy
about lex. is easy to work with and plex. is a crap shoot...
Joe N101HD
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Baker" <jlbaker@msbit.net>
Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 2:58 PM
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: cutting and drilling Lexan
>
> X-SpamReason %%SpamReason%%:
>
>> I'm so gun-shy now, about wrecking more pieces,
>
> Don't be.....
>
> http://www.rplastics.com/plasticdrill.html
>
> Really easy to do. I generally drill large enough to insert a brass
> grommet in a rubber grommet in the Lexan and let the Lexan float.
>
>
> Jim Baker
> 580.788.2779
> Elmore City, OK
>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | The downside of a great paint job |
Did Ultrastars with factory welded cages come prepainted?
My US has a gleaming gloss black paint job on the cage, boom, and
struts. It's such a deep gloss it almost looks powder coated though I
doubt it is. Unfortunately there's a downside to that as well. After
flying for awhile today I decided to take a break and warm my
hands. Looking things over while I was waiting, I noticed what looked like
some odd cracks in the tailboom just past the aft end of the internal "H"
section. A little scraping with my pocketnife didn't reveal whether the
cracks were just in the finish or the aluminum and I want to continue
flying for many years so I packed it in and went home, where (I trailer the
plane and keep it at home) I sanded down through the finish to the bare
aluminum. Big sigh of relief, the apparent cracks disappeared with the
paint; after close inspection with a jeweler's loupe revealed nothing now I
just have to refinish the area. Not sure what I should use to refinish it;
zinc chromate of course followed by ???
Has anybody heard of tail boom failure at that point?
This isn't the first time, though, that I've been fooled by the apparently
brittle paint cracking. Spots on the cage and the wing attach fittings
were more obviously just in the finish, though. It's thick, and strangely,
5 distinct layers thick, none of which succumbed to MEK. The first is
obviously zinc chromate, then red, then olive, more red, and then the black.
-Dana
--
Drink wet cement, and get completely stoned!
Message 18
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| Subject: | What do you do with a Kolb? |
Well here is what I do.
My latest trip to the Big Bend Region of Texas.
do not archive
--------
John Williamson
Arlington, TX
Kolbra, 912ULS
http://home.tx.rr.com/kolbrapilot
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=146985#146985
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0616_126.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/movie1118_786.wmv
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: The downside of a great paint job |
Dana, I don't think any of the Ultrastar cages were factory welded, I could
be wrong. Sounds like a couple of repaints.
Dan Walter
Ultrastar, UL202
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dana Hague" <d-m-hague@comcast.net>
Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 7:46 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: The downside of a great paint job
>
> Did Ultrastars with factory welded cages come prepainted?
Message 20
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Guys,
I recently listened to the pros and cons of why we need a whole-plane ballistic
recoverery system. I am still "on the fence", let's say.
I think both sides certainly present very valid arguments for their repective
positions. That being said, I just came across this video.
Here is one guy's story, and it ain't no b.s. Watch this video, and let me know
what you think.
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/738998/ballistic_chute_deployment/
I have to admit, this video helps one side of the argument, for sure!!
Mike Welch MkIII
Do Not Archive
_________________________________________________________________
Put your friends on the big screen with Windows Vista + Windows Live.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/shop/specialoffers.mspx?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_CPC_MediaCtr_bigscreen_102007
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: The downside of a great paint job |
At 08:32 PM 11/18/2007, DANIEL WALTER wrote:
>Dana, I don't think any of the Ultrastar cages were factory welded, I could
>be wrong. Sounds like a couple of repaints.
I had thought the later ones were factory welded, but I too could very well
be wrong. Repaints are likely, since the plane was bent at least once in
years past.
-Dana
Do Not Archive
--
The difference between golfing and flying: In golfing you hear "whack...
shit!" and in flying you hear "shit... whack!"
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: The downside of a great paint job |
Because you might have a hard time "matching" the paint....
You could paint some sorta stripe or design/checkers...
Just a suggestion....
Gotta Fly...
Mike & "Jaz" in MN
.
.
.
PS I thought "ALL" the cages were factory welded....I've never heard
of a Kolb kit any other way....
--------
.
.
.
.
.
Do Not Archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=146997#146997
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/rib_jig_with_spruce_pieces_009_112.jpg
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: What do you do with a Kolb? |
In a message dated 11/18/2007 8:25:02 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
kolbrapilot1@tx.rr.com writes:
My latest trip to the Big Bend Region of Texas
John,
I loved the video. Too short though. I want to see more.
Bill Varnes
Original Kolb FireStar
Audubon NJ
Do Not Archive
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| Subject: | Re: Oil Injection Pump |
Got one for a 503.
mem
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Frank Clyma
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2007 12:58 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Oil Injection Pump
REF:
Anybody got an oil injection pump for a 582 sitting on a shelf,
> collecting
> dust? I need one. Yesterday.
>
> Richard Pike
----------------------------------
Richard,
Would you tell us what happened to your old pump---and how you
caught the problem B4 it seized your engine?
Thanks,
Frank Clyma
Orange Park, FL
503 DCDI/oil injected owner
do not archive
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Oil Injection Pump |
Steven Greene gave me one already, thanks.
rp
Mike Matuszczak wrote:
> Got one for a 503.
>
> mem
>
> do not archive
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Frank Clyma <mailto:frank-margie@worldnet.att.net>
> *To:* kolb-list@matronics.com <mailto:kolb-list@matronics.com>
> *Sent:* Saturday, November 17, 2007 12:58 PM
> *Subject:* Kolb-List: Oil Injection Pump
>
> _REF:_
>
> Anybody got an oil injection pump for a 582 sitting on a shelf,
> > collecting
> > dust? I need one. Yesterday.
> >
> > Richard Pike
> ----------------------------------
> Richard,
> Would you tell us what happened to your old pump---and how you
> caught the problem B4 it seized your engine?
>
> Thanks,
> Frank Clyma
> Orange Park, FL
> 503 DCDI/oil injected owner
> do not archive
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: 2 stroke vs 4 stroke |
The killer of the 2 strokes will be pollution and high fuel usage.
Remember all those two stroke motorcycles? Seen any lately? All it
will take is for the State of California to extend its two stroke ban
to aircraft engines and the party is over for that, too. Don't get me
wrong, I'm not blaming anyone. I lived in California when only LA was
polluted. Now it covers the entire state. Worse yet, is that now it's
everywhere and has to be cleaned up. In a short time, most personal
flying will be electric powered. $100,000 can buy you an electric
motor glider today. It will require far more skill to do what gasoline
allows now relatively simply, but using a launcher / sustainer
powerplant can take you cross country, today, if you want it. There is
far greater interest in battery development than will ever be
available to do the cheap 4 stroke 40 HP engine weighing 80 lb. even
if you could sell 10,000 of them a year. Meanwhile, the cost of ever
increasing energy density storage is becoming cheaper.
FIre away.
Rick
PS Since utilization of convective activity to aviate is inherently
more risky and the shears encountered can result in loss of control or
structural failure, I would definitely recommend a BRS for such craft.
On Nov 18, 2007 2:56 PM, lucien <lstavenhagen@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> [quote="mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co"]
> > Lucien, Interesting and thoughtful "take" on the future of Rotax, and
the high prices to own one. While it is true they are probably the leader in
the SLSA & ESLA field , from our experience, anytime a product raises its prices
so high the masses can barely afford it, along comes competition.And competition
is a good thing. Not only does it give us consumers a choice, finally,
but we also get the advantage of the new technology and improvements, when deciding
on a competitive product.Case in point is the HKS. This engine is taking
a small foothold in the Rotax 503 normally dominated field.As the reliability
and ,therefore, popularity increases, we pilots benefit in being able to choose
an engine that fits our preferences, and this helps hold down the price of
other similar products. The fact is, I would like to see other engine companies
make an engine for the experimental aircraft planes. Companies like Harley Davidson,
Briggs and Stratton, and Honda, etc., etc. A
n!
> d I'm not talking about "conversions", where someone "adapts" a redrive unit to an existing motor (like Hog-Air), I'm talking about the engine manufacturer actually producing a 60-100 hp range of true aircraft engines. Much like Jabiru did. Lately I have been looking at some of the other engine choices. Personally, I am NOT looking to get a new engine, I will be staying with my GEO 1.0 liter 3 cyl., turbo, but I do like to see what other alternatives are out there.If I had to do it all over, I think I could have seriously considered a big bore VW based conversion like Great Plains Engines, or Aero-Vee Engines. http://www.greatplainsas.com/ (http://www.greatplainsas.com/) http://www.aeroconversions.com/ (http://www.aeroconversions.com/) Mike Welch MkIII with GEO turbo Do Not Archive
>
>
> Well there are a couple other complications with this that have to do with the
40 to 50 hp light a/c market (I like to call it).
>
> a) As I said before, this market was very slow to adopt the 912 even back when
it was reasonably priced - now with its cost is in the ludicrous GA territory
its attraction to that market is about nil. The fundamentals for the 912 to
penetrate this market are simply NOT there. The money isn't there, the growth
of the buying power of those customers won't reach that level in a reasonable
amount of time (if ever).
> This was one of the big expectations of the whole light sport movement and it
was a big mistake.
> The 912 and motors like the HKS aren't quite head to head competitors, since
they power different planes for the most part. So really the success of the HKS
isn't going to affect much the 912's situation.
> The jabiru, on the other hand, has an opportunity here, though there are problems
with it too (its cost is also going up soon, it's got some installation related
bugs here and there, etc.).
>
> b) The 40/50 hp light a/c market will NOT simply vanish. The expectation of the
LSA movement seems to have been that suddenly everyone would get tired of their
single-place UL like planes, small trikes, and other light planes and decide
they wanted larger, faster 4-stroke powered planes of the LSA variety. I guess
they thought the planes would just sell themselves once the light a/c pilots
all woke up and saw the error of their ways.
> Some would say that this is actually happening now - people are suddenly somehow
content to opt for boats or computer games instead of flying an airplane through
the air and the whole UL flying thing is imploding for good.
> I think this is a mistake - true it's in a lull right now, and a deep one, but
like I said this is more sensationalism driven by the expiration of gELSA and
the hoopla surrounding LSA than it is a sudden shift in the human race away
from interest in flying light aircraft.
> Forgetting this market going forward will be a large error I think.
>
> c) Now the 912's competition besides the jab is basically the big iron. It hinges
only on the legal issue - its the suitable pwerplant for LSA far more than
the big iron that costs about the same.
> The GA market, that would otherwise be buying used GA airplanes, DOES have the
buying power for a 20 grand 912S, and will buy the 100k planes it powers for
a while.
>
> But the law of supply and demand can NOT support an _increasing_ price when supply
continues to meet demand. It just doesn't work that way. Either supply has
to tighten to maintain the cost increase (this would be very bad for Rotax)
or demand has to rise dramatically, more dramatically than it is now (and I don't
see that happening, we're already about in the Good Old Days of LSA at this
point).
> This includes the exchange rate issue which amounts to a huge price hike - Rotax
still has to deal with that and yes they truly are in a pickle with it.
>
> The market also can't support increasing prices once they reach the level of
viable competitors. This is a mixed bag - in some areas, like GA training, even
exorbitant prices like 110 grand for an SLSA are far cheaper than the competition
(third of a million for a new Cessna). In others, like the experimental
market, there'll be trouble. I.e. if you're going to drop 100 grand on a plane,
will it be a CTsw SLSA or a Vans RV-8 quick build + tools + goodies?
> Don't know about you, but medical or not, if I have to drop 100 large on an airplane
I'm going for the best bang/buck which would be the RV.
>
> In any case, the 912 is actually in a more precarious position than it used to
be and Rotax will have to do something about it pretty quick. But at the same
time, I don't see a permanent disappearance of the market for motors like the
447 and 503, or the HKS, etc.
>
> Finally, I don't know about the 582. I might ring up lockwood next week and see
what its status is...
>
> LS
>
> --------
> LS
> FS II
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=146936#146936
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: BRS revisited |
Yes, it's impressive. What's more impressive is the way they skip
right over the fact that the pilot of the deployment aircraft was in
violation of the FAR's when he failed to yield the right of way to the
aircraft towing the glider. This guy is completely oblivious to the
fact that the "accident" was entirely his responsibility to avoid. He
shouldn't be extolling the virtues of BRS (or whomever), what we ought
to see is a group of angry fliers demanding that this selfish idiot be
grounded for life and after having that done, he be prosecuted for
reckless endangerment and sent to jail. Just my opinion.
Rick
On Nov 18, 2007 7:33 PM, Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Guys,
>
> I recently listened to the pros and cons of why we need a whole-plane ballistic
recoverery system. I am still "on the fence", let's say.
>
> I think both sides certainly present very valid arguments for their repective
positions. That being said, I just came across this video.
>
> Here is one guy's story, and it ain't no b.s. Watch this video, and let me
know what you think.
>
> http://www.metacafe.com/watch/738998/ballistic_chute_deployment/
>
> I have to admit, this video helps one side of the argument, for sure!!
>
> Mike Welch MkIII
>
>
> Do Not Archive
> _________________________________________________________________
> Put your friends on the big screen with Windows Vista(R) + Windows Live.
> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/shop/specialoffers.mspx?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_CPC_MediaCtr_bigscreen_102007
>
>
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | Re: 2 stroke vs 4 stroke |
Lucien
I agree we need competition for the Rotax 912. They have gotten way too
expensive.
I would like to comment on your suggestion about Areo-Vee. This engine is a
direct drive VW and there is a world of difference between a direct drive VW
and a reduction drive engine. I flew a Great Plains direct drive VW for four
years on my MKIII it pushed me along at 65MPH running 80% power and was a
dog in a climb. The same size VW with a reduction drive pushes the same
plane 75MPH at 60% power and climbs. The Jabaru engine is a slightly slower
RPM engine but still turns way too many RPMs to turn a large enough prop to
give a Kolb the spirited performance we have come to expect with a 912 or
even a redrive VW.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
----- Original Message -----
From: "lucien" <lstavenhagen@hotmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 3:56 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: 2 stroke vs 4 stroke
>
> [quote="mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co"]
>> Lucien, Interesting and thoughtful "take" on the future of Rotax,
>> and the high prices to own one. While it is true they are probably the
>> leader in the SLSA & ESLA field , from our experience, anytime a product
>> raises its prices so high the masses can barely afford it, along comes
>> competition.And competition is a good thing. Not only does it give us
>> consumers a choice, finally, but we also get the advantage of the new
>> technology and improvements, when deciding on a competitive product.Case
>> in point is the HKS. This engine is taking a small foothold in the Rotax
>> 503 normally dominated field.As the reliability and ,therefore,
>> popularity increases, we pilots benefit in being able to choose an engine
>> that fits our preferences, and this helps hold down the price of other
>> similar products. The fact is, I would like to see other engine companies
>> make an engine for the experimental aircraft planes. Companies like
>> Harley Davidson, Briggs and Stratton, and Honda, etc., etc. An!
> d I'm not talking about "conversions", where someone "adapts" a redrive
> unit to an existing motor (like Hog-Air), I'm talking about the engine
> manufacturer actually producing a 60-100 hp range of true aircraft
> engines. Much like Jabiru did. Lately I have been looking at some of the
> other engine choices. Personally, I am NOT looking to get a new engine, I
> will be staying with my GEO 1.0 liter 3 cyl., turbo, but I do like to see
> what other alternatives are out there.If I had to do it all over, I think
> I could have seriously considered a big bore VW based conversion like
> Great Plains Engines, or Aero-Vee Engines. http://www.greatplainsas.com/
> (http://www.greatplainsas.com/) http://www.aeroconversions.com/
> (http://www.aeroconversions.com/) Mike Welch MkIII with GEO turbo Do Not
> Archive
>
>
> Well there are a couple other complications with this that have to do with
> the 40 to 50 hp light a/c market (I like to call it).
>
> a) As I said before, this market was very slow to adopt the 912 even back
> when it was reasonably priced - now with its cost is in the ludicrous GA
> territory its attraction to that market is about nil. The fundamentals for
> the 912 to penetrate this market are simply NOT there. The money isn't
> there, the growth of the buying power of those customers won't reach that
> level in a reasonable amount of time (if ever).
> This was one of the big expectations of the whole light sport movement and
> it was a big mistake.
> The 912 and motors like the HKS aren't quite head to head competitors,
> since they power different planes for the most part. So really the
> success of the HKS isn't going to affect much the 912's situation.
> The jabiru, on the other hand, has an opportunity here, though there are
> problems with it too (its cost is also going up soon, it's got some
> installation related bugs here and there, etc.).
>
> b) The 40/50 hp light a/c market will NOT simply vanish. The expectation
> of the LSA movement seems to have been that suddenly everyone would get
> tired of their single-place UL like planes, small trikes, and other light
> planes and decide they wanted larger, faster 4-stroke powered planes of
> the LSA variety. I guess they thought the planes would just sell
> themselves once the light a/c pilots all woke up and saw the error of
> their ways.
> Some would say that this is actually happening now - people are suddenly
> somehow content to opt for boats or computer games instead of flying an
> airplane through the air and the whole UL flying thing is imploding for
> good.
> I think this is a mistake - true it's in a lull right now, and a deep one,
> but like I said this is more sensationalism driven by the expiration of
> gELSA and the hoopla surrounding LSA than it is a sudden shift in the
> human race away from interest in flying light aircraft.
> Forgetting this market going forward will be a large error I think.
>
> c) Now the 912's competition besides the jab is basically the big iron. It
> hinges only on the legal issue - its the suitable pwerplant for LSA far
> more than the big iron that costs about the same.
> The GA market, that would otherwise be buying used GA airplanes, DOES have
> the buying power for a 20 grand 912S, and will buy the 100k planes it
> powers for a while.
>
> But the law of supply and demand can NOT support an _increasing_ price
> when supply continues to meet demand. It just doesn't work that way.
> Either supply has to tighten to maintain the cost increase (this would be
> very bad for Rotax) or demand has to rise dramatically, more dramatically
> than it is now (and I don't see that happening, we're already about in the
> Good Old Days of LSA at this point).
> This includes the exchange rate issue which amounts to a huge price hike -
> Rotax still has to deal with that and yes they truly are in a pickle with
> it.
>
> The market also can't support increasing prices once they reach the level
> of viable competitors. This is a mixed bag - in some areas, like GA
> training, even exorbitant prices like 110 grand for an SLSA are far
> cheaper than the competition (third of a million for a new Cessna). In
> others, like the experimental market, there'll be trouble. I.e. if you're
> going to drop 100 grand on a plane, will it be a CTsw SLSA or a Vans RV-8
> quick build + tools + goodies?
> Don't know about you, but medical or not, if I have to drop 100 large on
> an airplane I'm going for the best bang/buck which would be the RV.
>
> In any case, the 912 is actually in a more precarious position than it
> used to be and Rotax will have to do something about it pretty quick. But
> at the same time, I don't see a permanent disappearance of the market for
> motors like the 447 and 503, or the HKS, etc.
>
> Finally, I don't know about the 582. I might ring up lockwood next week
> and see what its status is...
>
> LS
>
> --------
> LS
> FS II
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=146936#146936
>
>
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: What do you do with a Kolb? |
I agree. It is way too short.
Thanks John W.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIC
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Williamson" <kolbrapilot1@tx.rr.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 8:23 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: What do you do with a Kolb?
> <kolbrapilot1@tx.rr.com>
>
> Well here is what I do.
>
> My latest trip to the Big Bend Region of Texas.
>
> do not archive
>
> --------
> John Williamson
> Arlington, TX
>
> Kolbra, 912ULS
> http://home.tx.rr.com/kolbrapilot
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=146985#146985
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0616_126.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/movie1118_786.wmv
>
>
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | 2 Stroke engines |
Can the list Rotax GURU e-mail me off list
???????????????????????????????????????????????? Thanks !? Dave
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: 2 stroke vs 4 stroke |
Rick N.,
That wasn't Lucien that suggested the VW engines, it was me, Mike Welch. And
I wasn't especially trying to push the Aero-Vee, either. It was one of the two
VW based engine I could find in a couple of minutes of Google searching.
I absolutely agree with you in regard to everything you said in regards to engine
rpms and redrives. The fact is, Aero Vee direct drive engine are not a good
way to go!! I am fully informed, and versed in the evils of excessive prop
tip-speed. (and multiple prop blades)
My basic point is I think the VW engine with a reduction drive system should
be a serious contender to be considered, for the "mid-sized experimental airplanes"
engine. (Like the MkIII, or Kolbra, etc)
So, in response to your response....I very much agree with you.
Mike Welch
Do Not Archive
> From: NeilsenRM@comcast.net
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: 2 stroke vs 4 stroke
> Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 21:58:16 -0500
>
>
> Lucien
>
> I agree we need competition for the Rotax 912. They have gotten way too
> expensive.
>
> I would like to comment on your suggestion about Areo-Vee. This engine is a
> direct drive VW and there is a world of difference between a direct drive VW
> and a reduction drive engine. I flew a Great Plains direct drive VW for four
> years on my MKIII it pushed me along at 65MPH running 80% power and was a
> dog in a climb. The same size VW with a reduction drive pushes the same
> plane 75MPH at 60% power and climbs. The Jabaru engine is a slightly slower
> RPM engine but still turns way too many RPMs to turn a large enough prop to
> give a Kolb the spirited performance we have come to expect with a 912 or
> even a redrive VW.
>
> Rick Neilsen
> Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "lucien"
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 3:56 PM
> Subject: Kolb-List: Re: 2 stroke vs 4 stroke
>
>
>>
>> [quote="mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co"]
>>> Lucien, Interesting and thoughtful "take" on the future of Rotax,
>>> and the high prices to own one. While it is true they are probably the
>>> leader in the SLSA & ESLA field , from our experience, anytime a product
>>> raises its prices so high the masses can barely afford it, along comes
>>> competition.And competition is a good thing. Not only does it give us
>>> consumers a choice, finally, but we also get the advantage of the new
>>> technology and improvements, when deciding on a competitive product.Case
>>> in point is the HKS. This engine is taking a small foothold in the Rotax
>>> 503 normally dominated field.As the reliability and ,therefore,
>>> popularity increases, we pilots benefit in being able to choose an engine
>>> that fits our preferences, and this helps hold down the price of other
>>> similar products. The fact is, I would like to see other engine companies
>>> make an engine for the experimental aircraft planes. Companies like
>>> Harley Davidson, Briggs and Stratton, and Honda, etc., etc. An!
>> d I'm not talking about "conversions", where someone "adapts" a redrive
>> unit to an existing motor (like Hog-Air), I'm talking about the engine
>> manufacturer actually producing a 60-100 hp range of true aircraft
>> engines. Much like Jabiru did. Lately I have been looking at some of the
>> other engine choices. Personally, I am NOT looking to get a new engine, I
>> will be staying with my GEO 1.0 liter 3 cyl., turbo, but I do like to see
>> what other alternatives are out there.If I had to do it all over, I think
>> I could have seriously considered a big bore VW based conversion like
>> Great Plains Engines, or Aero-Vee Engines. http://www.greatplainsas.com/
>> (http://www.greatplainsas.com/) http://www.aeroconversions.com/
>> (http://www.aeroconversions.com/) Mike Welch MkIII with GEO turbo Do Not
>> Archive
>>
>>
>> Well there are a couple other complications with this that have to do with
>> the 40 to 50 hp light a/c market (I like to call it).
>>
>> a) As I said before, this market was very slow to adopt the 912 even back
>> when it was reasonably priced - now with its cost is in the ludicrous GA
>> territory its attraction to that market is about nil. The fundamentals for
>> the 912 to penetrate this market are simply NOT there. The money isn't
>> there, the growth of the buying power of those customers won't reach that
>> level in a reasonable amount of time (if ever).
>> This was one of the big expectations of the whole light sport movement and
>> it was a big mistake.
>> The 912 and motors like the HKS aren't quite head to head competitors,
>> since they power different planes for the most part. So really the
>> success of the HKS isn't going to affect much the 912's situation.
>> The jabiru, on the other hand, has an opportunity here, though there are
>> problems with it too (its cost is also going up soon, it's got some
>> installation related bugs here and there, etc.).
>>
>> b) The 40/50 hp light a/c market will NOT simply vanish. The expectation
>> of the LSA movement seems to have been that suddenly everyone would get
>> tired of their single-place UL like planes, small trikes, and other light
>> planes and decide they wanted larger, faster 4-stroke powered planes of
>> the LSA variety. I guess they thought the planes would just sell
>> themselves once the light a/c pilots all woke up and saw the error of
>> their ways.
>> Some would say that this is actually happening now - people are suddenly
>> somehow content to opt for boats or computer games instead of flying an
>> airplane through the air and the whole UL flying thing is imploding for
>> good.
>> I think this is a mistake - true it's in a lull right now, and a deep one,
>> but like I said this is more sensationalism driven by the expiration of
>> gELSA and the hoopla surrounding LSA than it is a sudden shift in the
>> human race away from interest in flying light aircraft.
>> Forgetting this market going forward will be a large error I think.
>>
>> c) Now the 912's competition besides the jab is basically the big iron. It
>> hinges only on the legal issue - its the suitable pwerplant for LSA far
>> more than the big iron that costs about the same.
>> The GA market, that would otherwise be buying used GA airplanes, DOES have
>> the buying power for a 20 grand 912S, and will buy the 100k planes it
>> powers for a while.
>>
>> But the law of supply and demand can NOT support an _increasing_ price
>> when supply continues to meet demand. It just doesn't work that way.
>> Either supply has to tighten to maintain the cost increase (this would be
>> very bad for Rotax) or demand has to rise dramatically, more dramatically
>> than it is now (and I don't see that happening, we're already about in the
>> Good Old Days of LSA at this point).
>> This includes the exchange rate issue which amounts to a huge price hike -
>> Rotax still has to deal with that and yes they truly are in a pickle with
>> it.
>>
>> The market also can't support increasing prices once they reach the level
>> of viable competitors. This is a mixed bag - in some areas, like GA
>> training, even exorbitant prices like 110 grand for an SLSA are far
>> cheaper than the competition (third of a million for a new Cessna). In
>> others, like the experimental market, there'll be trouble. I.e. if you're
>> going to drop 100 grand on a plane, will it be a CTsw SLSA or a Vans RV-8
>> quick build + tools + goodies?
>> Don't know about you, but medical or not, if I have to drop 100 large on
>> an airplane I'm going for the best bang/buck which would be the RV.
>>
>> In any case, the 912 is actually in a more precarious position than it
>> used to be and Rotax will have to do something about it pretty quick. But
>> at the same time, I don't see a permanent disappearance of the market for
>> motors like the 447 and 503, or the HKS, etc.
>>
>> Finally, I don't know about the 582. I might ring up lockwood next week
>> and see what its status is...
>>
>> LS
>>
>> --------
>> LS
>> FS II
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=146936#146936
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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