---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 11/24/07: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 0. 12:25 AM - Comments (Matt Dralle) 1. 03:12 AM - zoom zoom (tc1917) 2. 04:54 AM - Re: zoom zoom (Larry Bourne) 3. 05:42 AM - Re: zoom-zoom (Nelson, Craig) 4. 05:48 AM - Re: zoom zoom (Russ Kinne) 5. 10:23 AM - question on carb jet needle settings (Jimmy Young) 6. 10:34 AM - Re: question on carb jet needle settings (R. Hankins) 7. 11:07 AM - Re: question on carb jet needle settings (Aaron Gustafson) 8. 11:40 AM - Re: question on carb jet needle settings (planecrazzzy) 9. 04:39 PM - Re: Slingshot gear legs (John Hauck) 10. 05:11 PM - Re: zoom zoom (John Hauck) 11. 05:27 PM - Re: Big Twin 4 stroke? (Don G) 12. 05:27 PM - Re: question on carb jet needle settings (Larry Cottrell) 13. 05:32 PM - HAULING mk III without boom stand? (grantr) 14. 05:33 PM - Re: HAULING mk III without boom stand? (grantr) 15. 06:09 PM - Re: Re: zoom zoom (Larry Cottrell) 16. 07:54 PM - Re: Re: zoom zoom (Larry Bourne) ________________________________ Message 0 _____________________________________ Time: 12:25:35 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Kolb-List: Comments Dear Listers, Below are a few more of the nice comments Listers have been making along with their Contributions in support of the Lists this year. Please make your Contribution today to support the continued operation and upgrade of these services. Remember, there is _no advertising budget_ to keep these Lists funded. It is solely through your generosity that they continue. Please make a Contribution: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator ------------------------------What Listers Are Saying------------------------------ The list has been invaluable in the building of my Zenith CH701. George R Thanks for keeping the lists a non-commercial venue for us to gather and share knowledge. Neal G What a fantastic resource! Ralph C It's a pretty cheep troubleshooting tool with and unlimited resource of personal knowledge. Bruce G A full house of Info & Ideas... Ellery B I really enjoy the Piet list. Steven D The Lists are an indispensable resource for those of us building OBAM aircraft. Bret S ..a great service. Frank D ..all in all it is a great resource if you ask specific questions. Richard S Your list has really helped me in my first build. Michael W Always a pleasure to support this great resource... Richard W I enjoy the lists very much, they are very beneficial. Bob L Great place to chat with other builders and Flyers. Ellery B Your lists are a great service to builders and owners! Richard D A real good place for someone that is starting to get interested into flying without investing any money at first. Ellery B The list has been an great help to my building process. David B I'm close to finishing my Zenith 601 thanks to you and the Zenith List. Jeff D ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:12:26 AM PST US From: "tc1917" Subject: Kolb-List: zoom zoom My wing struts are airstreamed already. this just started with the 912 with warp. I switched my 582 to a warp from IVO and got better performance, climb, etc., but it had a harsh feel, kind of bumpy and vibrational. I actually believe that this warp is the problem. sent one blade back already because of defects. It really works hard but I dont like the vibration. Not much you can do about it. The blade I sent back was almost a ounce heavier than the other two blades. I think they can do better than that. I guess I will just live with it until I can try another blade type. thanks. all. Ted Cowan. will always wonder if it is nickel inlay that makes it hum that way. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:54:05 AM PST US From: Larry Bourne Subject: Re: Kolb-List: zoom zoom What you said about that blade............are all 3 blades the same weight now ?? I'd think they hafta be. What you might look at if they are is the pitch. I've heard of problems like that showing up with blades pitched differently than others. I don't believe the protractor method of pitching the prop is completely accurate, so you might try the laser pointer method. Look on my website at www.gogittum.com under "Building Vamoose," and go to the "Laser Prop Pitching" page. Before the flaming starts, let me say that the protractor method is probably completely accurate, but it's almost impossible to say the bubble is in *exactly* the same place each time. I fully believe you can easily be 1 or 2 degrees off with the protractor. Lar. tc1917 wrote: > > My wing struts are airstreamed already. this just started with the > 912 with warp. I switched my 582 to a warp from IVO and got better > performance, climb, etc., but it had a harsh feel, kind of bumpy and > vibrational. I actually believe that this warp is the problem. sent > one blade back already because of defects. It really works hard but I > dont like the vibration. Not much you can do about it. The blade I > sent back was almost a ounce heavier than the other two blades. I > think they can do better than that. I guess I will just live with it > until I can try another blade type. thanks. all. Ted Cowan. will > always wonder if it is nickel inlay that makes it hum that way. > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:42:01 AM PST US Subject: RE: Kolb-List: zoom-zoom From: "Nelson, Craig" I have the same engine and prop on my extra. I flew it without the windows and did not hear what was happening. I did see the results on the ground but could not hear it in the air or figure what it was till I put the windows and doors on. The prop is so close to the back of the plane and the sound you hear I believe is the drumming of the fabric on the right side of your fuselage. When I flew for the first time with full enclosure it scared me. I put a piece of foam behind the controls to stop the drumming and it went away. I plan to redo that part of the plane in aluminum, right now its fabric. The drumming is cracking the paint around my aileron gussets I made also around the small strut that go's from the bottom of the rear window to the horizontal square tube the back of the wing attach point. After the quick foam fix the sound went away and the cracking of the paint has subsided----- Possibly drumming? Uncle craig Do Not Nrchive -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Aaron Gustafson Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 8:55 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: zoom-zoom >>agonizing harmonizing sound. Can anyone out there give me the answer? Could be that Warp!!! Not quiet and efficient like an IVO (ooops, should I say that?) Don't blame me for saying so, I'm just a dumb and happy flier. Ha ha. Aaron do not archive ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:48:37 AM PST US From: Russ Kinne Subject: Re: Kolb-List: zoom zoom Ted I sympathize with your vibration problem -- these things can be a bear ton track down . You may have done this, but how about a dynamic balancing of the whole prop? This would define, or eliminate, the prop as the source. A 1-oz difference in blade weight sounds like very sloppy manufacture or at least product testing On Nov 24, 2007, at 6:11 AM, tc1917 wrote: > > My wing struts are airstreamed already. this just started with the > 912 with warp. I switched my 582 to a warp from IVO and got better > performance, climb, etc., but it had a harsh feel, kind of bumpy > and vibrational. I actually believe that this warp is the > problem. sent one blade back already because of defects. It > really works hard but I dont like the vibration. Not much you can > do about it. The blade I sent back was almost a ounce heavier than > the other two blades. I think they can do better than that. I > guess I will just live with it until I can try another blade type. > thanks. all. Ted Cowan. will always wonder if it is nickel inlay > that makes it hum that way. > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:23:48 AM PST US From: "Jimmy Young" Subject: Kolb-List: question on carb jet needle settings Regarding carb jet needle adjustments: On a 503 DCDI with the Bing 54 carbs, what is the proper proceedure for jet needle adjustments to account for summer to winter air temp. drops? I've been told by some local pilots I must change the position from 1 to 2 at this time of year, or I will run too lean and can damage the engine. My plane runs great, been flying it in air temps from the mid 80's in Oct. to yesterday's 48 deg. @ mid afternoon. I see no difference in performance, CHT, temps, or EGT's other than maybe 10 to 15 deg. cooler on yesterday's CHT's. I don't plan to be flying in any weather colder than 40 in the winter, and up to about 100 in the summer.Can I have a few opinions on this? Thanks - Jimmy Young Houston, TX FS II ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:34:01 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: question on carb jet needle settings From: "R. Hankins" If your EGTs are still below 1150, there is no need to change. As long as your engine instruments are accurate, let them make the decision for you. If your EGT's get to high in the cooler air, raise your needles one notch. If they don't, leave them alone. -------- Roger in Oregon 1992 KXP 503 - N1782C Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148271#148271 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:07:47 AM PST US From: "Aaron Gustafson" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: question on carb jet needle settings Just watch the EGT temps. If in the cooler weather the temp starts going above where you feel it should, raise the needle a notch. When I flew my FS 2 with 447, I would fly down to about 10 F and would need to adjust spring and fall. 40 F may not need a needle change. Aaron G. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jimmy Young To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 12:23 PM Subject: Kolb-List: question on carb jet needle settings Regarding carb jet needle adjustments: On a 503 DCDI with the Bing 54 carbs, what is the proper proceedure for jet needle adjustments to account for summer to winter air temp. drops? I've been told by some local pilots I must change the position from 1 to 2 at this time of year, or I will run too lean and can damage the engine. My plane runs great, been flying it in air temps from the mid 80's in Oct. to yesterday's 48 deg. @ mid afternoon. I see no difference in performance, CHT, temps, or EGT's other than maybe 10 to 15 deg. cooler on yesterday's CHT's. I don't plan to be flying in any weather colder than 40 in the winter, and up to about 100 in the summer.Can I have a few opinions on this? Thanks - Jimmy Young Houston, TX FS II ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 11/24/2007 10:06 AM ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:40:32 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: question on carb jet needle settings From: "planecrazzzy" Myself, I haven't flown my FSII in cold weather.... My Notes say....Raise the needle "one" notch , below 40 degrees.... ( 3rd Notch from the Top ) Fer what it's worth..... Gotta Fly... Mike & "Jaz" in MN .. .. .. .. -------- .. .. .. .. .. Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148282#148282 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/rib_jig_with_spruce_pieces_030_228.jpg ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:39:56 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Slingshot gear legs From: "John Hauck" Hi Guys: Be careful making major changes to aircraft you are not familiar with, especially something that will affect take off and landing performance. There is no comparison between the wing incidence of a MKIII and a Sling Shot. The primary reason the Sling Shot got the extra long gear legs was to compensate for the reduction in wing incidence (angle of attack). When incidence is reduced, the aircraft needs to be able to get into a good angle of attack to take off and land. Personally, I would not change the gear leg length of the Sling Shot. Others on this List have changed aircraft dimensions to fit a trailer with less than desireable results. Some have not flown their aircraft since they made major changes to gear legs. john h Sling Shot Pilot Edwards AFB, CA -------- John Hauck MKIII/912ULS hauck's holler, alabama Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148307#148307 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:11:11 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: zoom zoom From: "John Hauck" Hi Ted: Very unusual for Warp Drive to make mistakes in blade balance, but I guess we are all human. Differences in level of nickel edge and blade have never caused me a problem, nor has smoothness of the back side of the blade. I have more than 2,500 hours flying Warp Drive props on my mkIII. Can not remember how many different ones I have had on the aircraft, but more like 5 or 6. Why so many? I have been sponsored by Warp since 1993, after a 3 blade GSC prop came apart and collected on my tail boom. I have always flown tapered, nickel leading edges. Never had a problem. Others that have had problems were related to top wing fabric, inboard, being loose, either not shrunk tight enough or in one case, individual ribstitched and the stitching worked loose. The noise and vibration was very uncomfortable and could be heard on the ground. Fuselage fabric drumming could cause the same noise and vibration. What length prop extention are you running? I run a 4" with not problems. I don't have any problem pitching the prop with the protractor provided by Warp. I don't know how Larry Bourne tested his prop after he pitched it with a laser. Did not know he had flown the airplane. john h mkIII Edwards AFB, CA -------- John Hauck MKIII/912ULS hauck's holler, alabama Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148311#148311 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:27:52 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Big Twin 4 stroke? From: "Don G" Grant, I think if I were going to use that engine, (which is not 38 hp BTW..but really 32 stock and about 34 with the VW carb on it at 3600rpms).. I would simply but one from a local engine distributor for about 1200 bucks...(32hp generac) and leave the engine alone other than the buggy Downdraft weber carb, (150 bucks) which is a good thing. Do not lighten the flywheel, as the Generac vibrates bad enough as it is. Do not remove engine cooling shrouds. Install a redrive, but it needs to be a really STRONG redrive..because of very high power pulses from the big V-twin, (read that as a belt eater) and swing as big a prop as I could fit on it at 2200 to 2300 rpms. IT WIll give alot of thrust, and if the plane has enough wing, it should make a very viable aircraft powerplant. Install on the biggest of Lord mounts as you can find. Buckeye PPC is now experimenting with this engine on a PPC and having good success, I believe you might get the re-drive from them, at least they plan on offering it last I spoke to them. In case you didnt see it, They won several awards at OshKosh this year with a V-twin Honda on this set-up, including the inovation award. As Honda does not have a larger engine they are working on the Generac for a better climb rate for heavier pilots. I predict they will be successfull. -------- Don G. Central Illinois Kitfox IV Speedster Luscombe 8A http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148313#148313 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:27:55 PM PST US From: "Larry Cottrell" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: question on carb jet needle settings Regarding carb jet needle adjustments: On a 503 DCDI with the Bing 54 carbs, what is the proper proceedure for jet needle adjustments to account for summer to winter air temp. drops? I've been told by some local pilots I must change the position from 1 to 2 at this time of year, or I will run too lean and can damage the engine. My plane runs great, been flying it in air temps from the mid 80's in Oct. to yesterday's 48 deg. @ mid afternoon. I see no difference in performance, CHT, temps, or EGT's other than maybe 10 to 15 deg. cooler on yesterday's CHT's. I don't plan to be flying in any weather colder than 40 in the winter, and up to about 100 in the summer.Can I have a few opinions on this? Thanks - Jimmy Young Houston, TX FS II Jimmy, I have not had to change my 503 jets since I changed them on the trip to Texas this may. I flew today and the temp was 31. If there is a need to change them the cht's or egt's will tell you. Larry C ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:32:32 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: HAULING mk III without boom stand? From: "grantr" I picked up the Kolb MK III and hauled it in a single axle enclosed trailer 800 miles. The trailer has a catch fro the tail wheel and didn't have a boom stand. I just found out that it should not be hauled on the tail wheel. I guess the guy didn't know it wasn't suppose to be hauled that way Did I screw up? I cant see any damage. What should I check for? I did have a strap across the front of the plane going through the doors snug to keep the mains from bouncing out of the wheel chocks. The plane was in the trailer tail 1st. The chocks were screwed to the floor and the wheels were strapped in the chocks and the strap I mentioned above was used to keep the plane from bouncing up. One other question: What is the best way to fix a small hole( the size of my pinkie finger) in the horizontal stab? Thanks, Grant Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148316#148316 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:33:22 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: HAULING mk III without boom stand? From: "grantr" Are there any plans for a simple boom stand? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148317#148317 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:09:18 PM PST US From: "Larry Cottrell" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: zoom zoom > I don't have any problem pitching the prop with the protractor provided by > Warp. I don't know how Larry Bourne tested his prop after he pitched it > with a laser. Did not know he had flown the airplane. > > john h When Lar mentioned the laser and his prop, I got interested and decided to check and see how good I was with a protractor. I too have had some problems with pitch and my ability to set it properly. I have a level with a laser in it, and unlike Lar I fastened the level to the end of the warp blade with rubber bands. I measured the distance to the end of the prop so that I would be able to get the level in the same place on both blades. I also had a mark on the level so that I could set the height the same. I also cut a board that would keep the blade that I was measuring level. I have put a lot of effort in getting the blades set the same, but I ended up with a bit too much pitch the last time I "adjusted it", so I needed to change it any way. I picked the blade with the least amount of pitch and turned the laser on and marked it on the floor with a piece of chalk. I then set up the other blade and found that even with the extra care that I used the last time I set it, the blade was almost 1 1/2 inches different than the first mark. Not sure how much that ends up as degrees, but I reset it using the laser. My next project was some stream lined faring for the gear legs. I have looked and searched trying to find some fairings that I could put on them in the hope that I could squeeze another MPH out of the little darling. I finally gave up and decided that I would have to make them. I had some sheet alum in the shop so I was on my way. First though I had to make a "brake" to bend them. That in itself took most of my morning, but I managed a somewhat usable brake to do the job. Once I finished the two jobs I stuck my head out of the hanger and found that the weather was still manageable, so I dressed up in my cold weather gear and rolled the Plane out. With the heater 31 degrees is still good flying. I did find that the prop was a lot smoother after the readjustment and feel that it was most definitely worth doing. As for the gear leg fairings I will always believe that they helped. As long as you believe then it is worth while, whether the facts support that belief or not. :-) Larry C ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:54:34 PM PST US From: Larry Bourne Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: zoom zoom Thanks Larry. I threw that idea out there in an attempt to help with another builder's problem. Don't know if it'll help him, but I'm glad to know it made a difference for you. Lar. Do not Archive. Larry Cottrell wrote: > > > >> I don't have any problem pitching the prop with the protractor >> provided by Warp. I don't know how Larry Bourne tested his prop >> after he pitched it with a laser. Did not know he had flown the >> airplane. >> >> john h > > > When Lar mentioned the laser and his prop, I got interested and > decided to check and see how good I was with a protractor. I too have > had some problems with pitch and my ability to set it properly. I have > a level with a laser in it, and unlike Lar I fastened the level to the > end of the warp blade with rubber bands. I measured the distance to > the end of the prop so that I would be able to get the level in the > same place on both blades. I also had a mark on the level so that I > could set the height the same. I also cut a board that would keep the > blade that I was measuring level. I have put a lot of effort in > getting the blades set the same, but I ended up with a bit too much > pitch the last time I "adjusted it", so I needed to change it any way. > I picked the blade with the least amount of pitch and turned the laser > on and marked it on the floor with a piece of chalk. I then set up the > other blade and found that even with the extra care that I used the > last time I set it, the blade was almost 1 1/2 inches different than > the first mark. Not sure how much that ends up as degrees, but I reset > it using the laser. > > My next project was some stream lined faring for the gear legs. I have > looked and searched trying to find some fairings that I could put on > them in the hope that I could squeeze another MPH out of the little > darling. I finally gave up and decided that I would have to make them. > I had some sheet alum in the shop so I was on my way. First though I > had to make a "brake" to bend them. That in itself took most of my > morning, but I managed a somewhat usable brake to do the job. > > Once I finished the two jobs I stuck my head out of the hanger and > found that the weather was still manageable, so I dressed up in my > cold weather gear and rolled the Plane out. With the heater 31 degrees > is still good flying. I did find that the prop was a lot smoother > after the readjustment and feel that it was most definitely worth > doing. As for the gear leg fairings I will always believe that they > helped. As long as you believe then it is worth while, whether the > facts support that belief or not. :-) > Larry C > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.