Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:03 AM - Matronics List Fund Raiser - 2007 List of Contributors (Matt Dralle)
2. 07:41 AM - fun fly (greg@skyelink.com)
3. 07:50 AM - Plane touchy (Vic Peters)
4. 07:56 AM - Re: fun fly (jb92563)
5. 09:35 AM - Re: Re: Monument valley (HShack@aol.com)
6. 10:26 AM - Flight characteristics of the Kolb FSII & The Challenger (propwash)
7. 10:53 AM - Re: Re: Monument valley (John Hauck)
8. 11:43 AM - FIELD LOCATION FOR FLY IN (greg@skyelink.com)
9. 12:19 PM - Re: Flight characteristics of the Kolb FSII & The Challenger (ElleryWeld@aol.com)
10. 02:08 PM - Re: Flight characteristics of the Kolb FSII & The Challenger (Carlos)
11. 03:12 PM - Re: Flight characteristics of the Kolb FSII & The Challenger (Carlos)
12. 05:16 PM - Re: Flight characteristics of the Kolb FSII & The Challenger (Bryan Dever)
13. 05:36 PM - Re: Flight characteristics of the Kolb FSII & The Challenger (Larry Cottrell)
14. 05:52 PM - Re: Flight characteristics of the Kolb FSII & The Challenger (russ kinne)
15. 06:14 PM - Re: Flight characteristics of the Kolb FSII & The Challenger (beauford T)
16. 06:14 PM - Re: Elevator trim tab information needed (JetPilot)
17. 06:18 PM - Re: Re: need advice on extra fuel tank hook up (Charlie England)
18. 07:39 PM - Re: Flight characteristics of the Kolb FSII & The Challenger (propwash)
19. 08:13 PM - Re: Flight characteristics of the Kolb FSII & The Challenger (WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com)
20. 08:20 PM - Re: Re: Flight characteristics of the Kolb FSII & The Challenger (Richard Pike)
21. 08:55 PM - Re: Re: Flight characteristics of the Kolb FSII & The Challenger (WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com)
22. 09:02 PM - Re: Re: Flight characteristics of the Kolb FSII & The Challenger (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
23. 09:36 PM - FS II (propwash)
24. 10:34 PM - Re: FS II (Carlos)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Matronics List Fund Raiser - 2007 List of Contributors |
Dear Listers,
I would like to thank everyone that made a Contribution in support of the Lists
this year! It was really nice to hear all great comments people had regarding
the Lists! As I have said many times before, running these Lists is a labor
of love. Your generosity during the List Fund Raiser underscores the great sentiments
people have made regarding the Lists.
If you haven't yet made a Contribution in support of this year's Fund Raiser please
feel free to do so. The great List Fund Raiser gifts will be available on
the Contribution site for just a little while longer, so hurry and make your
Contribution and get your great gift! Once again, the URL for the Contribution
web site is:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
I would like to thank Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore ( http://www.buildersbooks.com ), Jon Croke of Homebuilt HELP ( http://www.homebuilthelp.com ) and Bob Nuckolls of AeroElectric ( http://www.aeroelectric.com ) for their extremely generous support during this year's Fund Raiser through the contribution of discounted merchandise. These are great guys that support the aviation industry and I encourage each and every Lister to have a look at their products. Thank you Andy, Jon and Bob!! Your support is very much appreciated!
And finally, below you will find a web link to the 2007 List of Contributors current
as of 12/6/07! Have a look at this list of names as these are the people
that make all of these List services possible! I can't thank each of you enough
for your support and great feedback during this year's Fund Raiser!
THANK YOU!
http://www.matronics.com/loc/2007.html
I will be shipping out all of the gifts in the next few weeks and hope to have
everything out by the end of the month. In most cases, gifts will be shipped
via US Postal Service.
Once again, thank you for making this year's List Fund Raiser successful!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Message 2
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Hello everyone
My name is Greg Allison i am a new kolb member i own a mark 3x that i
completed in sept of this year and i have put in a 2,000 ft landing strip
on my land. To celibrate the the new strip i would like to hold a fun fly
at my field on the weekend of april 19-20. I am inviting any other kolb
owners to attend and would like some feedback as to who might like to
come i am located in virginia 3 sm from the potomic river in the northern
neck.
I will try to get some good games and compations for us to do and all food
and drink will be supplyed to all that attend camping will be promitted to
anyone that would like to drive to the event. If anyone has some ideas on
some games or thing to make it a good time for everyone please feel free
to phone or email (804 529-7578)(greg@skyelink.com) thanks Greg Allison
Message 3
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Sounds like some of our lister needs a little nip of holiday cheer.
Kinda like what Ellery has in his little purple velvet bag trimmed in
gold. Or even my brown paper one.
Skeeter apologizing, hope your not ill (really).
Vic (sober as a church mouse)
Xtra 912 N740VP
T Craft project (brothers 46' BC12D)
Now all I need is 3 HO! HO! HO!'s
Message 4
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How about a couple aerial pics of your new strip, to help us recognize it from
the air.
GPS Coordinates would be great as well.
You could use google maps to get a coordinate visually by zooming in on your location
if you don't have gps.
--------
Ray
Riverside County, CA
Do Not Archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=150805#150805
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Monument valley |
When is Monument Valley? Will other-than KOLB aircraft be allowed? A couple
of our Trenton Flyers would like to fly there; we are in SC. One owns a
pretty MkIII on floats [too slow for the trip] & the other has flown a FS II;
does that qualify?
How about accomodations?
Check out _www.Trentonflyers.com_ (http://www.Trentonflyers.com) .
Howard Shackleford
FS II
SC
**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
Message 6
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| Subject: | Flight characteristics of the Kolb FSII & The Challenger |
Does anyone have any experience with the Quad City Challenger (2 seat model) and
the Kolb Firestar II - in terms of similiar flight characteristics. I have a
half a dozen hours in the Challenger (long wing model) and am considering purchasing
a FS II.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=150824#150824
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Monument valley |
Hi Shack:
The 2008 Unplanned/Unorganized Monument Valley Kolb Flyin will be held
16, 17, 18 May 2008, the weekend between Mother's day and Memorial Day
weekends, unless the Kolb folks want to do it on a different weekend.
Any and all are welcome to join our "flyin". Although it is primarily a
flyin, we also welcome those that drive, ride, and walkin.
Goulding's Lodge is a great place for a Kolb Flyin. Everything we need
to survive, enjoy, relax, and live in the lap of luxury is available.
They have a nice lodge, also cabins and I think some duplex
accomodations.
http://www.gouldings.com/english/index.htm
http://www.airnav.com/airport/UT25
The 4,000 air strip is now entirely paved.
Auto fuel is available across the street at the service station.
john h
mkIII (Visited MV every year since 2002. 5 times by mkIII and twice by
land. Made it to MV twice this year (air and land).)
When is Monument Valley? Will other-than KOLB aircraft be allowed? A
couple of our Trenton Flyers would like to fly there; we are in SC.
One owns a pretty MkIII on floats [too slow for the trip] & the other
has flown a FS II; does that qualify?
How about accomodations?
Check out www.Trentonflyers.com .
Howard Shackleford
FS II
SC
Message 8
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| Subject: | FIELD LOCATION FOR FLY IN |
sorry no up to date picks right now but i will get some and post thim in
a fue day however the gps cordn. are N37.56.500 // w76.36.071 of the air
field.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Flight characteristics of the Kolb FSII & The Challenger |
I have flown 3 different Challenger II's and I have flown 4 different models
of Kolb's and its just my opinion The KOLB's are superior better flyers and
you dont have to worry about the wings or the fusalage flexing like in the
Challengers ( I dont like that ) thats why I am sticking to Kolb's
Ellery Building MK3Xtra
do not archive
**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Flight characteristics of the Kolb FSII & The Challenger |
Hi Prop,
Just another note...
The FS II really is a single seat plane in my opinion. The Seat in the back
is very small, no controls and really only suited for a child or small
person.
The Challenger II has room for two normal size adults and dual controls but,
very little extra space beyond that.
The Challenger II has a higher VNE of 100mph and the FS II is 90mph.
I guess its all in what you want to do.
Carlos G
----- Original Message -----
From: "propwash" <lasvegas890@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 10:24 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Flight characteristics of the Kolb FSII & The Challenger
>
> Does anyone have any experience with the Quad City Challenger (2 seat
> model) and the Kolb Firestar II - in terms of similiar flight
> characteristics. I have a half a dozen hours in the Challenger (long wing
> model) and am considering purchasing a FS II.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=150824#150824
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Flight characteristics of the Kolb FSII & The Challenger |
Hi Propwash,
I have a Firestar II with a 447 and I have about 50hrs in a QC Challenger
II LW with a 503.
The Challenger has flaperons and the FSII does not have flaps. The FS II
seems to be a little qiucker on the response to control inputs but not
sensitive. The rudder feel is the biggest difference between the two planes.
The Challenger seems a little vague at times usually right after reducing
power. The FS II seems very positive through out all speeds when compared
to a Challenger. I find the FS tracks better through turns while the
Challenger seems to need constant attention when making coordinated turns.
The FS II is a tail dragger and may take alittle getting used to when
compared to a Challenger.
You mgiht try practicing keeping the Challenger balanced only on its main
gear along the runway while doing touch and go's. Or practice high speed
taxis down the runway keeping Challenger balanced again on its mains only.
This will help you practice steering with the rudder and give you an idea
what a tail wheel is about. If you can, please do find someone who can give
you some time in a taildragger as this is the best way to prepare.
I hope this helps with your questions regarding the two planes.
Best Regards
Carlos G
----- Original Message -----
From: "propwash" <lasvegas890@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 10:24 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Flight characteristics of the Kolb FSII & The Challenger
>
> Does anyone have any experience with the Quad City Challenger (2 seat
> model) and the Kolb Firestar II - in terms of similiar flight
> characteristics. I have a half a dozen hours in the Challenger (long wing
> model) and am considering purchasing a FS II.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=150824#150824
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Flight characteristics of the Kolb FSII & The Challenger |
I own an fly a Firestar, but I learned to fly in a Challenger II Clip wing.
There are pros and cons to both planes as I see them.
1. First off, the Chalenger II is a true two place plane, the Firestar is
not.
2. The Chalenger is has a faster cruise speed.
3. The Kolb is structurally more substantial in my opinion. Take a look at
the tail section design of the Challenger. If you grab the vertical
stabilizer and give a good shake, and you'll see what I mean.
4. The Kolb will handle a rough field a lot better. Challengers have a
weak nose gear design.
5. Challengers are known for adverse yaw, however this can be delt with.
6. I am not a fan of belt driven props (Challenger)
7. I am not a fan of inverted 2 strokes ( Challenger)
8. I feel safer in chromoly fuselage (Kolb)
9. The visibility of a kolb cannot be beat without a Bell helicopter.
10. Folding wings are a nice feature (Kolb)
11. Some Challenger pilots have reported bad flight characteristics when
the doors are installed.
12. Tail draggers are cool.
Bryan Dever
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Flight characteristics of the Kolb FSII & The Challenger |
Subject: Kolb-List: Flight characteristics of the Kolb FSII & The Challenger
>
> Does anyone have any experience with the Quad City Challenger (2 seat
> model) and the Kolb Firestar II - in terms of similiar flight
> characteristics. I have a half a dozen hours in the Challenger (long wing
> model) and am considering purchasing a FS II.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I took my Sport Pilot test in a Challenger, and I own a Firestar II. I would
not trade at all. The only thing positive that I can say about the
Challenger is that it is relatively easy to land. Other than that no real
comparison for me, they are just not as much fun to fly.
Larry C
Do not archive
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Flight characteristics of the Kolb FSII & The Challenger |
And please, propwash, use the widest runway you can find! You might
need it in training.
On Dec 6, 2007, at 4:47 PM, Carlos wrote:
>
> Hi Propwash,
>
> I have a Firestar II with a 447 and I have about 50hrs in a QC
> Challenger II LW with a 503.
>
> The Challenger has flaperons and the FSII does not have flaps. The
> FS II seems to be a little qiucker on the response to control
> inputs but not sensitive. The rudder feel is the biggest difference
> between the two planes. The Challenger seems a little vague at
> times usually right after reducing power. The FS II seems very
> positive through out all speeds when compared to a Challenger. I
> find the FS tracks better through turns while the Challenger seems
> to need constant attention when making coordinated turns. The FS II
> is a tail dragger and may take alittle getting used to when
> compared to a Challenger.
>
> You mgiht try practicing keeping the Challenger balanced only on
> its main gear along the runway while doing touch and go's. Or
> practice high speed taxis down the runway keeping Challenger
> balanced again on its mains only. This will help you practice
> steering with the rudder and give you an idea what a tail wheel is
> about. If you can, please do find someone who can give you some
> time in a taildragger as this is the best way to prepare.
>
> I hope this helps with your questions regarding the two planes.
>
> Best Regards
> Carlos G
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "propwash" <lasvegas890@gmail.com>
> To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 10:24 AM
> Subject: Kolb-List: Flight characteristics of the Kolb FSII & The
> Challenger
>
>
>>
>> Does anyone have any experience with the Quad City Challenger (2
>> seat model) and the Kolb Firestar II - in terms of similiar flight
>> characteristics. I have a half a dozen hours in the Challenger
>> (long wing model) and am considering purchasing a FS II.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=150824#150824
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Flight characteristics of the Kolb FSII & The Challenger |
Took a "BFR" in a Challenger II a short while ago.... My distinct
impression was that the rudder was only loosely affiliated with the
remainder of the airplane... and that the relationship was somewhat
antagonistic...
Stick with the Kolbs...
Worth what ye paid fer it...
beauford
FF076
Brandon FL
Do not archive...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrell@fmtcblue.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 8:29 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Flight characteristics of the Kolb FSII & The
Challenger
Subject: Kolb-List: Flight characteristics of the Kolb FSII & The Challenger
>
> Does anyone have any experience with the Quad City Challenger (2 seat
> model) and the Kolb Firestar II - in terms of similiar flight
> characteristics. I have a half a dozen hours in the Challenger (long wing
> model) and am considering purchasing a FS II.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I took my Sport Pilot test in a Challenger, and I own a Firestar II. I would
not trade at all. The only thing positive that I can say about the
Challenger is that it is relatively easy to land. Other than that no real
comparison for me, they are just not as much fun to fly.
Larry C
Do not archive
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator trim tab information needed |
[quote="planecrazzzy"]Oooooh,
I see , you know everything....and "I'm" a liar
Whatever...
.
.
Gotta Fly...
Like I said, even if you were able to get a motor to get into a back and fourth
failure mode, a trim surface is geared down so far, the motor could NEVER move
it back and fourth fast enough to cause flutter. A fialure mode that could cause
a motor to run back and forth rapidly is a servo motor application, NOT trim
motor Michael Sharp. Just because you might have seen one vibrate does not
mean that this type of behavior translates to trim motors. Even in the worst
case scenario if you intentionally induced a trim motor to run back and forth
as fast as it could be commanded to, it would never be fast enough to equate
to the trim surface moving back and forth fast enough to be flutter. Ever seen
how slow an electric trim operates ? Flutter is something that happens many
times each second.
PlaneCrazzy, said you were wrong, which you are. Why you are trying to turn
this around into " Calling you a liar " is beyond me, you need to re-read what
I wrote, no offense was intended. Also, I never claimed to know everything,
but I do know about this subject, which is exactly why I posted in this thread.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=150912#150912
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: need advice on extra fuel tank hook up |
If plastic really worries you, look into aluminum irrigation tubing.
Several different diameters available, up to at least 6" (I just built a
hangar door using it). You'll probably have to make your own end caps,
but with Proseal sealant & closed end pop rivets, construction would be
fairly simple.
Charlie
Richard Pike wrote:
>
> We made up a test length of pipe and capped it off, filled it with gas
> and let it set for several days. Then dumped the gas out and and
> immediately checked it for softness or deterioration of the glue joint.
> Nothing noted, but that doesn't mean it won't go bad in ten years...
>
> Richard Pike
> MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
>
>
> Jim ODay wrote:
>>
>> Richard:
>>
>> Did you ever have any problems with PVC and gasoline? I have seen
>> where PVC has dissolved in gasoline and fuel oil piping installations.
>>
>> Yours is a nifty set-up. Every plane I have owned could use more tanks.
>>
>> Fly safe,
>>
>> Jim
>>
>> do not archive
>>
>> --------
>> Jim O'Day
>> Fargo, ND
>> Firestar II
>>
>>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Flight characteristics of the Kolb FSII & The Challenger |
One of the posters mentioned that I should practice on a wide runnway? Is there
any reason for that? Do you need a wider runway than normal with a Kolb? I have
heard that when the plane gets up on both mains it has a desire to swerve to
the right.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=150929#150929
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Flight characteristics of the Kolb FSII & The Challenger |
In a message dated 12/6/2007 8:17:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
indyaviator@gmail.com writes:
12. Tail draggers are cool.
Bryn,
Very good report.
Bill Varnes
Original Kolb FireStar
Audubon NJ
Do Not Archive
**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Flight characteristics of the Kolb FSII & The Challenger |
Nothing that the rudder won't handle... easily.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
propwash wrote:
>
> One of the posters mentioned that I should practice on a wide runnway? Is there
any reason for that? Do you need a wider runway than normal with a Kolb? I
have heard that when the plane gets up on both mains it has a desire to swerve
to the right.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=150929#150929
>
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Flight characteristics of the Kolb FSII & The Challenger |
In a message dated 12/6/2007 10:39:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
lasvegas890@gmail.com writes:
Do you need a wider runway than normal with a Kolb?
Hi there Propwash,
Don't let the tail dragger handling comments scare you. Homer designed the
Kolbs with the main gear located further aft, than say, a Piper Cub, so it
doesn't act the same way. The Kolb handles very gently on the ground. I
learned to fly my Kolb FireStar by following the instructions in the builders
manual. First, I taxied a lot to get the feel of the rudder and tail wheel
action. Time spent taxiing also helps to get familiar with the throttle
positioning needed to make the plane move, and the seating position in reference
to
the ground. Then I started doing crow hops. Just add enough throttle to get
it moving and when it comes off the ground, just slightly reduce the throttle
and the plane will settle right down onto the ground again. Always treat the
throttle gently. You will find that the Kolbs are light on the tail, so you
have to have the stick back whenever you add much throttle, lest the prop
thrust will push the plane over onto its nose. Won't hurt the plane much if
you do; just your pride :) Do your practicing on a calm day and after you get
proficient at crow hops, it's time to go around the pattern. On landing,
carry some power (3000~3500 RPM) and keep the airspeed up. When you reach
ground level you'll be in the same position as you were when you did the crow
hops, so land it the same way as you did then. One other thing, if you are using
the original design tail wheel, you will find that the Kolb will not turn
very sharp. In order to make a U-turn on the runway, you have to get all the
way over to the edge of the runway before starting your turn. This is the
only time that you will need that WIDER runway. Worked for me.
Bill Varnes
Original Kolb FireStar
Audubon NJ
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Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Flight characteristics of the Kolb FSII & The Challenger |
I wondered about that too??? He must have been referring to a Challenger.
If the builder didn't get the wheels aligned you might get one that swerves
but this isn't normal. OK, yes if you grab a bunch of throttle at low speeds
depending on the prop rotation it will turn on way or the other but it is
after all a airplane. I also heard the strong advise to get tail wheel
training. Yes Kolbs are tail wheel airplanes but they are the easiest tail
wheel airplanes there are to fly. By all means get training but Kolbs steer
more like a nose dragger.
Its a real good idea to leave a bit of the E-Mail that you are responding to
so we know what you are responding too.
Again worth what you paid for it.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIC
----- Original Message -----
From: "propwash" <lasvegas890@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 10:38 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Flight characteristics of the Kolb FSII & The
Challenger
>
> One of the posters mentioned that I should practice on a wide runnway? Is
> there any reason for that? Do you need a wider runway than normal with a
> Kolb? I have heard that when the plane gets up on both mains it has a
> desire to swerve to the right.
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I have about 5 hours in a Quad City Challenger. The balance of my hours (about
12 or so) is in a Quicksilver Sprint, single seat. The controls are about 80%
rudder, 20% alierons. Perhaps its even more rudder. Is the Kolb Firestar more
alieron centric than the Quicksilvers? Much like the Challenger. I'm not going
to get any dual instructions it seems, unless I can find a MKIII around. Hence
all the newbie questions. I'm a little worried about that first flight!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=150949#150949
Message 24
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Hi Prop,
I would say that the Kolb is more balanced than that of a quicksilver say
about 60% rudder and 40 % aileron. You still need to use both to make a turn
but once the turn starts, the FS will track the turn quite well.
I was flying a Maxair Drifter before I got my Kolb and I found the Kolb
handled much better than the Drifter (My Apologies to Artie ! :-) ). The
Kolb is a cleaner design then a Quicksilver or a Drifter and it just kind of
grooves through the air.
The tail wheel thing is really a non-event but I would still say get a bit
of tail wheel practice if you can. I found the first time I was in a
tailwheel plane I was caught off guard as the tail came up and I thought I
was about to nose over ( This was in a Robertson B1RD ). Once you get
aquainted with that sensation it really is not a big deal. The FS II tail
normally doesnt come up very much so the sensation isnt really that
noticeable. The rudder is responsive and has good positive control.
If you have go solo, just pick a calm day and get lots of taxi practice in
your Kolb and get comfortable with the plane before your first go around the
patch.
Best Regards
Carlos G
----- Original Message -----
From: "propwash" <lasvegas890@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 9:35 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: FS II
>
> I have about 5 hours in a Quad City Challenger. The balance of my hours
> (about 12 or so) is in a Quicksilver Sprint, single seat. The controls are
> about 80% rudder, 20% alierons. Perhaps its even more rudder. Is the Kolb
> Firestar more alieron centric than the Quicksilvers? Much like the
> Challenger. I'm not going to get any dual instructions it seems, unless I
> can find a MKIII around. Hence all the newbie questions. I'm a little
> worried about that first flight!
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=150949#150949
>
>
>
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