Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:05 AM - Re: Firefly (pj.ladd)
2. 07:50 AM - Re: Real Airplanes (jb92563)
3. 07:59 AM - Re: Firefly (Jim Dunn)
4. 08:11 AM - Re: New landing gear work great (Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL)
5. 09:32 AM - Duplication (TK)
6. 10:19 AM - Re: Duplication (Richard Girard)
7. 10:19 AM - Re: Duplication (Richard Girard)
8. 11:03 AM - Re: Re: Real Airplanes (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
9. 11:43 AM - Re: Duplication (russ kinne)
10. 01:06 PM - Re: Real Airplanes (jb92563)
11. 01:35 PM - Real Airplanes (robert bean)
12. 02:26 PM - Re: Real Airplanes (russ kinne)
13. 02:41 PM - Re: Duplication (John Hauck)
14. 02:59 PM - Re: Re: New landing gear work great (Larry Bourne)
15. 03:13 PM - Re: Re: Real Airplanes (Dana Hague)
16. 03:14 PM - Re: Re: New landing gear work great aka SeaFoam (Bob Noyer)
17. 03:51 PM - More SeaFoam info for Bob N (Lanny Fetterman)
18. 04:02 PM - Re: Re: Real Airplanes (JAMES BEARD)
19. 05:08 PM - Re: More SeaFoam info for Bob N (grantr)
20. 06:05 PM - Bolts with AFC X marking on them?? (grantr)
21. 06:15 PM - Re: Duplication (N27SB@aol.com)
22. 07:11 PM - Re: Re: More SeaFoam info for Bob N (Bob Noyer)
23. 07:20 PM - Re: Parts from a wreck (ElleryWeld@aol.com)
24. 08:15 PM - Re: Re: Real Airplanes (Jim Baker)
25. 08:20 PM - Re: More SeaFoam info for Bob N (Ralph B)
Message 1
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Has the PFA limited the fuel capacity?>>
Hi Jack,
as I understand it you can do what you like within the 115kg empty weight
and the 10kg per square metre wing loading.
The design competition has thrown up some interesting stuff. There are 2
classes.. The Simple Class.In this the plane must be simple and easy to
build at home, low cost. Submissions must include 3 view. Projected weight
and balance, expected performance and a report describing the airframe,
engine and control system.
The SOTA Class (state of the art) No restriction on technology. No
restriction on cost. Must address high performance and high effeciency
issues. Submissions to include full weight breakdown of components and a
full report to justify the projected performance.
The winning entry in the SOTA Class called the E-Plane is a smooth canard
design.Projected figures
113 kts max. 1100ft/min climb
Engine is the Hirth 29.5 hp F33. Gives 80 mpg at 104knots cruise. 22 litre
tank gives 424 nautical miles range
Wont stall or spin
Exceptional vfield of view
No flaps
Adjust. rudder pedals
Uses unleaded fuel
Panel
EFIS, hGrand Rapids horizon, on screen check lists,back up altim. and ASI
Tranceiver and transponder
Projected empty weight 106Kg. MAUW 210 kg
Accomodates pilot from 55 to 99 Kg
The canard area can be included in the wing loading calculation
The 2 designers are aeronautical engineers. One ex Marshall Aerospace and
one ex- Hawker Siddeley and British Aerospace
Details of the Simple Class winner will be in the next issue of our main mag
`Microlight Flight`. I will put something on the list if anyone is
interested
Sounds exciting doesn`t it but there is a very large gap between a drawing
and a marketable bit of hardware.
Cheers
Pat
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Real Airplanes |
Not sure that being a real airplane is all that great anyway.
Being a real airplane means:
- It costs more than $10,000 a year to maintain.
- Can only land on 3,000' paved strips and expect to stay in one peice.
- It has so many gauges, levers, knobs, buttons and lights that you dont spend
much time enjoying the scenery outside.
- Burns fuel at a spendy rate.
- Can be taxed very heavily by your local government if they feel like it.
- When crashed explodes in a ball of flames leaving no survivors.(Due to the large
tanks required by the heft fuel burn rate.)
- Is not rebuildable after a crash.
- Can only be maintained by certified and licensed experts due to complexity.
- Costs $10,000 to repaint if you want to change the color.
Being a Kolb means NONE of those things.....because they are better than "real"
airplanes.
Enjoy what you are(a Kolb) as the grass is not greener on the other side as you
can plainly see.
PS: Just look at the tales of Kolb voyages to Monument Valley, Alaska, river fishing
trips, x-country, x-county, x-state adventures or around the local patch
chasing clouds.....the pictures I have seen far exceed anything from the world
of "real" aircraft....so I'd say the Kolbs are enjoying aviation much more
whether they are real aircraft of not!!!
And a great bunch of people to hang with as well.
--------
Ray
Riverside County, CA
Do Not Archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=151939#151939
Message 3
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I think I would increase the wing area so I could use a stock 447, 3-blade
prop, brakes, and any other accessories you wanted. Bigger flaps might be
an easy way to do it. If that was insufficient I'd extend the wing span.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: New landing gear work great |
<< One more mention of SeaFoam and I'm gonna go even more Lurksville.
regards, Bob N. >>
Anybody know why our Grey Baron is so averse to SeaFoam?
Seems every time it's mentioned, he gets the jitters.
There must be a good story in it somewhere that I must've missed.
(Dropped in a vat of SeaFoam as a baby, perhaps?)
Dennis Kirby
Do not archive
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Am I the only one getting duplicate messages on the Kolb List? Getting
a bit annoying now!
Terry - FireFly #95
Do Not Archive
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yes, you are.
On Dec 13, 2007 12:16 PM, Richard Girard <jindoguy@gmail.com> wrote:
> yes, you are.
>
>
> On Dec 13, 2007 11:26 AM, TK <tkrolfe@toast.net> wrote:
>
> > Am I the only one getting duplicate messages on the Kolb List? Getting
> > a bit annoying now!
> >
> > Terry - FireFly #95
> >
> > Do Not Archive
> >
> > *
> >
> > *
> >
> >
>
Message 7
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yes, you are.
On Dec 13, 2007 11:26 AM, TK <tkrolfe@toast.net> wrote:
> Am I the only one getting duplicate messages on the Kolb List? Getting a
> bit annoying now!
>
> Terry - FireFly #95
>
> Do Not Archive
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Real Airplanes |
You have missed my point. I agree with everything you said but Kolbs ARE
real airplanes. We need to present that image to the aviation community.
Most uninformed General Aviation pilots look at the Kolb boom tube and are
convinced that they are ultra lights. Yes I know two seats more than five
gallons of fuel etc. The guys that have been bending the ultra light rules
for years have done us a great disservice. For so many years everyone has
said yes that is a Ultra light. For those of you that are based at a ultra
light strip and do nothing more than circle the field, you may not have ever
faced discrimination from GA pilots. Most GA pilots have the perception that
we don't fly real airplanes, aren't safe pilots, and yes are poor folks that
they don't want invading their space.
I have been looking for a strip to fly from when I take my plane to Florida.
There is a strip close to my house that would be perfect for my Kolb. Years
ago a bunch of ultra light pilots made a REAL nuance of themselves. As a
result the, county that runs the airport, has done everything in their power
to keep anything that isn't a real airplane out of there. About two years
ago I watched a two place tike fly for hours in and out of the strip cutting
off GA aircraft right and left. During one stop I talked to the pilot and he
proudly stated that he was a CFI doing training flights. He was obviously a
poorly trained alphabet rated instructor (not FAA) that had never been made
aware of traffic patterns or much of anything else. He had trailered his
tike in and was gone before anyone caught up with him but the damage he and
others have done will last for long long time.
We all need to be aware of the image we project. If you cause problems by
all means call yourself an ultra light. If you are a LSA Pilot or more and
fly a LSA you are a "real airplane".
Do not archive
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIC
- Original Message -----
From: "jb92563" <jb92563@yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 10:50 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Real Airplanes
>
> Not sure that being a real airplane is all that great anyway.
>
> Being a real airplane means:
> - It costs more than $10,000 a year to maintain.
> - Can only land on 3,000' paved strips and expect to stay in one peice.
> - It has so many gauges, levers, knobs, buttons and lights that you dont
> spend much time enjoying the scenery outside.
> - Burns fuel at a spendy rate.
> - Can be taxed very heavily by your local government if they feel like it.
> - When crashed explodes in a ball of flames leaving no survivors.(Due to
> the large tanks required by the heft fuel burn rate.)
> - Is not rebuildable after a crash.
> - Can only be maintained by certified and licensed experts due to
> complexity.
> - Costs $10,000 to repaint if you want to change the color.
>
> Being a Kolb means NONE of those things.....because they are better than
> "real" airplanes.
>
> Enjoy what you are(a Kolb) as the grass is not greener on the other side
> as you can plainly see.
>
> PS: Just look at the tales of Kolb voyages to Monument Valley, Alaska,
> river fishing trips, x-country, x-county, x-state adventures or around the
> local patch chasing clouds.....the pictures I have seen far exceed
> anything from the world of "real" aircraft....so I'd say the Kolbs are
> enjoying aviation much more whether they are real aircraft of not!!!
>
> And a great bunch of people to hang with as well.
>
> --------
> Ray
> Riverside County, CA
>
> Do Not Archive
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=151939#151939
>
>
>
Message 9
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Richard
FYI, I got 3 copies of your last email -- 1:23. 1;23, and 1;29PM
today. Some other addresses come thru doubled too. I have no idea why.
Think Kolb! -- (to be Kolb-related)
Maybe Matt can help.
Russ
On Dec 13, 2007, at 1:16 PM, Richard Girard wrote:
> yes, you are.
>
> On Dec 13, 2007 11:26 AM, TK <tkrolfe@toast.net> wrote:
> Am I the only one getting duplicate messages on the Kolb List?
> Getting a bit annoying now!
>
> Terry - FireFly #95
>
> Do Not Archive
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Real Airplanes |
I see what you mean Rick, and the GA community will also be seen as a nuisance
and dangerous undisciplined pilots by the Very Light Jet Aircraft pilots that
can use the same 3,000' GA strips.
The problem is that the aircraft have different base speeds and will always cause
each other problems if all the pilots do not have very good judgment and a
sharp situational awareness of the airspace and its occupants.
I am also not allowed to fly my Kolb Ultrastar Ultralight from a particular private
airport because 20 years ago an few MX's decided it would be fun to buzz
some homes.....people complained(Which they always do) and the City council reprimanded
the Airport owner....and zap! no more Ultralights.
I relate to your problem, but I also know that if I were to N-number my Kolb the
airport owner would simply deny me permission to fly there anyway for some other
reason even though I fly gliders there with no negative PR.
You will NOT get respect from the GA community on public airports now that your
fat UL is N-numbered.
You will have to COMMAND that respect by showing your license and FAA authorization
to any trouble makers and demand your equal rights as granted to you by the
FAA.
If the airport is private your out of luck as they reserve the right to only let
those they wish on their airport.
I would suggest you make friends with the airport operator so that he can grant
you individually his invitation to fly from his airport as a personal friend
instead of trying to lump yourself with everyone else and have to pay for any
bad PR as a group.
However, having said that, I also know that public opinion has an enormous influence
on private operations and that can be either a problem or an asset depending
on your local situation. Consult your local city council members to see what
you are up against, or how they may be able to influence the airport operator.
--------
Ray
Riverside County, CA
Do Not Archive
Read this topic online here:
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Ray, you're welcome to land here. I guarantee a short landing roll.
re: private airports. There are a few privately owned ones that have
been
the recipients of fed funds. If so they cannot refuse entry to a
legal N-numbered
aircraft.
BB
DSCN1518.JPG
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Real Airplanes |
Bob
Looks like a nice even runway, even if snow-covered. I iike the guard
dog too!
I landed in a plant nursery once, in snow, in my 170 after an engine
quit. Police measured landing roll at 95', and I had the world's most
expensive bunch of fresh-cut forsythia!
On Dec 13, 2007, at 4:27 PM, robert bean wrote:
> Ray, you're welcome to land here. I guarantee a short landing roll.
>
> re: private airports. There are a few privately owned ones that
> have been
> the recipients of fed funds. If so they cannot refuse entry to a
> legal N-numbered
> aircraft.
> BB
>
> <DSCN1518.jpg>
>
> DSCN1518.JPG
>
>
> <pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
>
> www.matronics.com/contribution</a>
> List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List</a>
> forums.matronics.com</a>
>
> </b></font></pre>
Message 13
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Hi Russ:
Think Kolb?
Better yet, build one, fly it, and then you will have plenty to talk
about that is Kolb related. It is amazing what a little Kolb will do
for you.
That does not always work though, unfortunately. We still have folks
with Kolbs that want to talk about Challengers for some very odd reason.
john h
Kolb pilot since 1984, and still piloting them!!!
Think Kolb! -- (to be Kolb-related)
Russ
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: New landing gear work great |
I thought you were with us during the time of "The Great Debate." That
were a fun one. Lar.
Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL wrote:
>
>
>
>
> << One more mention of SeaFoam and I'm gonna go even more Lurksville.
> regards, Bob N. >>
>
> Anybody know why our Grey Baron is so averse to SeaFoam?
> Seems every time it's mentioned, he gets the jitters.
> There must be a good story in it somewhere that I must've missed.
> (Dropped in a vat of SeaFoam as a baby, perhaps?)
>
> Dennis Kirby
> Do not archive
>
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Real Airplanes |
At 02:02 PM 12/13/2007, Richard & Martha Neilsen wrote:
>You have missed my point. I agree with everything you said but Kolbs ARE
>real airplanes. We need to present that image to the aviation community.
>Most uninformed General Aviation pilots look at the Kolb boom tube and are
>convinced that they are ultra lights...
Hah! Speak for yourself; my Ultrastar IS an ultralight!
Not that I don't consider it (and fly it like) a "real" airplane (which it
IS, compared to a Quicksilver!)
>...Years ago a bunch of ultra light pilots made a REAL nuance of themselves...
That seems to be a common story everywhere. Unfortunately, people remember
the "bad old days"... and it only takes one latter day yahoo to remind them
of it. Or an ignorant GA pilot, even when the ultralight pilot is
behaving... I have a friend who has been flying PPG for years from the same
airport, with no problems and no complaints. He launches from the grass
away from the main runway, and flies his own pattern, as agreed, away from
and below the GA pattern, and stays low over farm fields until well clear
of the airport. One day a visiting GA pilot saw him airborne, nowhere near
him, and complained to the airport owner about "those dangerous
things." Now my friend has to find a new place to fly.
There's one local airport around here, owned by Whelan (yes, the wingtip
strobe light people). It's a pretty businesslike airport, Bonnanzas and
twin Cessnas and the like, but they allow ultralights IF the pilot has a
license. I could keep my US there, but there's a friendlier airport about
twice as far away (40 vs. 20 minutes from my house). Unfortunately, the
_really_ friendly airport, 10 minutes from my house, which mixed GA, UL's
PPG's, and R/C models, with no friction (and lots of overlap), got sold for
condos.
-Dana
do not archive
--
America is two Mack trucks colliding on a superhighway because all the
drivers are on amphetamines.
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: New landing gear work great aka SeaFoam |
SeaFoam vs dropped in a vat;
An OF was out spading his garden when he fell into an old cesspool.
He couldn't swim a stroke, but saved himself by going through the
movements.
back in about '99, the SeaFoam thread went on ad infinitum.
regards,
Bob N. FireFly 070 Old Kolb
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/ronoy/
do not archive
Message 17
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| Subject: | More SeaFoam info for Bob N |
Hey, We aren`t the only forum that discusses SeaFoam. Check out the
Corvette forum for their thoughts. If SeaFoam sales are equal to the number
of people that talk about it, they`er making millions! Lanny
N598LF FSII and C5 Corvette (KOLB - Just thought I should
mention the word Kolb) : ) Do not archive
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Real Airplanes |
Well said, Ray. You also have a real airport, home-built friendly, in
Flabob. What history; Art Scholl, etal, real pilots flying everything
experimental. What an exciting home base! Once a Chino Hills resident,
I've moved to Az where I can afford the room to build my Mk III Xtra,
and have a local airport (cottonwood) that is also friendly. Just a
couple of lucky guys, right?
Jim in Az (right between NOAZ and SOAZ) (what a choice!)
.
.
Do Not Archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=152010#152010<http://forums
matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=152010#152010>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List<http://www.matronics.com/Nav
igator?Kolb-List>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: More SeaFoam info for Bob N |
What is seafoam????? I did a search on the forum and I didn't get nothing except
a reference to penzoil. [Question]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=152057#152057
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| Subject: | Bolts with AFC X marking on them?? |
What kind of bolt has AFC and a X on the head?
Thats the only marking on various sized bolts.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=152060#152060
Message 21
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Hi John,
shot some landings today for Bryan, Up close and personal.
Steve B
Firefly 007/Floats
do not archive
**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: More SeaFoam info for Bob N |
Grant,
clk on http://www.seafoamsales.com/
took 2 keystrokes on net..try it sometime..the net I mean
regards,
Bob N. FireFly 070 Old Kolb
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/ronoy/
do not rchive
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| Subject: | Re: Parts from a wreck |
this tells alot just looking at the drive system and engine mount _eBay
Motors: ROTAX 447 40 hp Ultralight Engine w/ Strobe (item 160188535922 end time
Dec-17-07 20:00:00 PST)_
(http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ROTAX-447-40-hp-Ultralight-Engine-w-Strobe_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ26437QQihZ006QQitemZ160188535922Q
QrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW)
Ellery
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(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Real Airplanes |
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (4.41)
X-SpamReason %%SpamReason%%:
> Being a real airplane means:
> - It costs more than $10,000 a year to maintain.
Nope...about $3k.
> - Can only land on 3,000' paved strips and expect to stay in one peice.
Nope....into and out of 1400 ft grass strips with ease. My field is
2600 ft, and I haven't seen pieces falling off yet. I prefer grass
strips, actually....
> - It has so many gauges, levers, knobs, buttons and lights that you dont spend
much time enjoying the scenery outside.
Nope....the scenery just goes by quicker tho....
> - Burns fuel at a spendy rate.
Nope....say you burn 4 GPH at 60 MPH, that's 15 MPG. Say my
Bellanca Super Viking burns 12 GPH at 175 mph, that's 14.58
MPG. Avgas costs more, true, but by the time you're 1/10th of
the way there, I've arrived.
> - Can be taxed very heavily by your local government if they feel like it.
Nope...$10 a year. Period. Obviously not the West Coast way.....
> - When crashed explodes in a ball of flames leaving no survivors.(Due to the
large tanks required by the heft fuel burn rate.)
Really? Going back one year there were 1862 accidents of all
kinds, 369 with fatalities, 20% of all crashes. Of these, fire was a
factor in 28 or so. Your fireball isn't all that effective, it seems.
> - Is not rebuildable after a crash.
Perhaps not economically repairable, but repairable just the
same. I guess one should define "crash" first....such as " I bent
the gear and bent it back."
> - Can only be maintained by certified and licensed experts due to complexity.
Gad, what a load. I did all the work replacing my engine in my
certificated bird under the sign-off of an IA. Expert? Certified?
Licensed? I'll accept the first of the three. Overhauled my
hydraulic system as well. It's not hard unless you aren't
mechanically inclined in which case I would leave it to the
"experts".
> - Costs $10,000 to repaint if you want to change the color.
And how often does that happen? Gee, I think I'll paint my
airplane blue...5 years later....now I'll paint it yellow.....
>
> Being a Kolb means NONE of those things.....because they are better than "real"
airplanes.
Such conceit. Denigrating one part of the whole to make your
particular choice appear to be more reasonable is,
well.....unreasonable.
> Enjoy what you are(a Kolb) as the grass is not greener on the other side as you
can plainly see.
No....the grass is just as green......
> PS: Just look at the tales of Kolb voyages to Monument Valley,
> Alaska, river fishing trips, x-country, x-county, x-state
> adventures or around the local patch chasing clouds.....the
> pictures I have seen far exceed anything from the world of "real"
> aircraft....so I'd say the Kolbs are enjoying aviation much more
> whether they are real aircraft of not!!!
Gee, I guess I've never gone anywhere or done anything. Up to
Idaho to fish, Denver for a Broncos game, fly-in breakfasts two
states over, maybe three if it's worth it (not Rhode Island, either),
Oklahoma to Pennsylvania in a bit under 7 hrs more times than I
care to count, Florida on a whim, Las Vegas for the weekend,
well...just because I can.
> And a great bunch of people to hang with as well.
The one statement I won't disagree with.
By now you're all steamed up thinking I'm a stuck-up GA type
with his big, nasty, fast complex airplane who looks down on
anyone who can't muster at least 160kts. My Kolb FS2 sits in the
same hangar, and sees about as much use, as that evil 4-place
beast. Each has its purpose and fills a specific need. Would I fly
the FS2 to PA and back to OK in four days? Sure, only if I
wanted to stay 20 minutes before leaving again. Would I drag
out the Viking for an evening flight around the countryside at 100
feet? Not likely.
Just a quick calc shows that it would take me about 95 gals to
get to PA, one way....that's at an honest 55 mph, no wind, and
would take 23:20 to cover 1034 miles, RNAV direct. That's flying
time. Not counting the 16+ stops that each eat up at least 40
minutes or more. Have to stop for the night unless registered
and lighted. Sometimes, time is the most valuable thing you
have.
Jim Baker
580.788.2779
Elmore City, OK
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: More SeaFoam info for Bob N |
grantr wrote:
> What is seafoam????? I did a search on the forum and I didn't get nothing
except a reference to penzoil. [Question]
Seafoam gets rid of the carbon buildup in a 2-stroke engine. Buy it at most auto
parts stores.
I still use it ...
Ralph B
--------
Ralph B
Original Firestar
N91493 E-AB
21 years flying it
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=152077#152077
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