---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 12/21/07: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:43 AM - Is this a Kolb? (Dana Hague) 2. 05:13 AM - Re: Is this a Kolb? (Larry Bourne) 3. 06:22 AM - Re: Re: How do you like your FireFly? (Jack B. Hart) 4. 07:35 AM - Re: How do you like your FireFly? (jerb) 5. 07:42 AM - Re: Re: How do you like your FireFly? (Vic Peters) 6. 07:44 AM - Re: Re: How do you like your FireFly? (N27SB@aol.com) 7. 08:01 AM - Re: Re: How do you like your FireFly? (Bryan Dever) 8. 08:02 AM - Re: Re: How do you like your FireFly? (Mike Welch) 9. 08:56 AM - Re: Is this a Kolb? (jb92563) 10. 02:46 PM - Re: Re: How do you like your FireFly? (David Key) 11. 03:02 PM - Yahoo! Auto Response (jpiamber@yahoo.com) 12. 05:04 PM - Re: Re: How do you like your FireFly? (Mike Welch) 13. 06:13 PM - Re: How do you like your FireFly? (JetPilot) 14. 06:54 PM - Re: FF tailwheel weight (Bob Noyer) 15. 07:11 PM - Re: Re: Flight characteristics of the Kolb FSII & The Challenger (ross richardson) 16. 08:57 PM - Re: Re: How do you like your FireFly? (jerb) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:43:28 AM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Kolb-List: Is this a Kolb? Is this a Kolb? http://www.mtairynews.com/articles/2007/12/08/news/local_news/local05.txt http://www.mtairynews.com/articles/2007/12/09/news/local_news/local01.txt -Dana -- We wonder why the dogs always drink out of our toilets, but look at it from their point of view: why do humans keep peeing into their water bowls? ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:13:16 AM PST US From: Larry Bourne Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Is this a Kolb? Not completely sure, but it looks like a Rans S-12. Lar. Dana Hague wrote: > > Is this a Kolb? > http://www.mtairynews.com/articles/2007/12/08/news/local_news/local05.txt > http://www.mtairynews.com/articles/2007/12/09/news/local_news/local01.txt > > -Dana > -- > We wonder why the dogs always drink out of our toilets, but look at > it from their point of view: why do humans keep peeing into their > water bowls? > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:22:59 AM PST US From: "Jack B. Hart" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: How do you like your FireFly? At 07:18 PM 12/20/07 -0600, you wrote: > > > > A FireFly driver said that with the 447 engine it seemed overpowered and >he installed a Victor 1+ instead and its much better behaved. > > Ray > > >Ray: > >Based on that statement, a rubber band might be too much for him. > >Much better behaved with a Victor??? Horse manure! > >john h - Who finds the 447 powered FF a delight to fly, a scaled down Sling >Shot, a perfect combination of aircraft and engine. >mkIII > FireFlyers, The orginal request was made about performance of a Part 103-7 FireFly. And my answer was given in that context. I don't know how many on the List have flown a legal ultra light vehicle FireFly or currently own one, but I have noticed quite a few currently sport N numbers. Anyone can take an experimental and boost the empty weigh by adding more engine or whatever, but it takes some effort to stay within the Part 103-7 bounds. If you have or have built a FireFly with less than 15 inch chord ailerons and it is close to 254 pounds empty with a Rotax 447 mounted, it is overpowered. All the comparisons you want to make to Kolbras and other forms of Kolb heavy metal will not alter that fact. Check out AC 103-7 Appendix 1, 2, 3 & 4. It is good that by the end of the year there will be no fat ultra light vehicles as they will change into undocumented experimentals and illegals. It was good to hear from Pat that they are offering the FireFly in UK with a 27 hp engine. It seems to fly very well. The List seems to be dominated by the thought that more power is better. But with the addition of power comes increased weight, wing loading and stall speeds, increased dynamic loading of the air frame, which means things start cracking. These must be bulked up and so more weight is added. If you want to do this, it is your right, but cut us guys who want to remain Part 103-7 legal a little slack. Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:35:31 AM PST US From: jerb Subject: Re: Kolb-List: How do you like your FireFly? Used to have a FireFly for a number of years. I assure you it is not under powered with a 447. It's like a little sports car version of the Kolbs, small and quick. It flies very well, gets off great. My partner and I were not exactly light weights, both in the 250# plus area. It is not for a real tall person, my partner was 5-10". If your much over that you head can start hitting the wing root cover. Fun little airplane that doesn't take up a lot of hangar space. Were were fat and built it knowing we would be. We had the larger dia, wheel barrow wheels, (didn't like the 5", worked the gear pretty hard on rough turf). Also had brakes and a very well equipped instrument panel plus the full enclosure, VLS chute. We had the expansion go-kart type brakes, if doing over I would adapt it over to band brakes, they work better and weigh a lot less. Had flown it with the short wind screen and the full enclosure, much nicer flying with that. The wind flying it seems to be much worst than I remember a motor cycle being. I do feel it is a little more challenging airplane to fly, liked that but probably not the best plane for a person just learning to flying or those with minimal flight time. Heard that the new owner changed to different tires/wheels and it improved its ground handling. (It had the thin Chinns tires on it as came on the wheels from Kolb.) Since both of us were old tail wheel pilots, we didn't have any problems with it. Do a search on guy morgan on the list regarding his changing the tires/wheels. It was fun to fly, but could only carry 5 gallons of fuel as configured. We found we could stuff a couple 2-1/2 gal. jerry cans in around the existing tank. Before we sold it we were looking into ways of increasing fuel capacity to give range to make it to and from other area airports especially with any major head wind. We flew it in fairly windy conditions but again we were experienced pilots and had hundreds of hours of tail wheel time under our belt. jerb At 12:10 AM 12/21/2007, you wrote: >I'm a MkIII owner/driver, but I have flown a Firefly with 447... >it's performance is terrific, short takeoffs, fast cruise (which, by >itself, will break the 103 rule), and a whole lot of fun to >fly. Highly recommended! > > -- Robert > >On Dec 20, 2007 2:38 PM, jb92563 ><jb92563@yahoo.com> wrote: ><jb92563@yahoo.com> > >I have been wondering how people have been liking their FireFly Kolbs. > >I am particularly interested in the Part 103 ones that are really legal. > >I understand that if you have the Rotax 447 equiped version you >should be able to keep under the required weight, but how does it >perform with that engine? > >-------- >Ray >Riverside County, CA > >Do Not Archive > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=153350#153350 > > >http://www.matronics.com/contribution >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:42:55 AM PST US From: "Vic Peters" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: How do you like your FireFly? I think your right Jack but don't be too hard on John. I think he probably went out west to meet up with Mat. They blew all the contribution money in Vegas and are now little burnt out On cocaine and hookers. Vic Having fun in Maine ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:44:04 AM PST US From: N27SB@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: How do you like your FireFly? I can only speak in regard to a Firefly on floats with a 447. Take Off on Glassy water------- 150 ft Climb at Sea Level ----- At least 900 fpm Handling ----- quick and nimble **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:01:34 AM PST US From: "Bryan Dever" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: How do you like your FireFly? *It is good that by the end of the year there will be no fat ultra light vehicles as they will change into undocumented experimentals and illegals.* The legal status of a "fat ultralight" does not change at all. They are no more illegal on Feb 1st than they are now. People that are making money on the SP transitions like to imply otherwise. I guess we will see. Bryan Dever ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:02:31 AM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: How do you like your FireFly? Jack and guys and girls, Very well stated, Jack. I think you deserve quite a bit of credit for trying to maintain a legal Part 103 ultralight. It is no easy task, I'm sure, balancing necessary performance and safety requirements within such stringent perameters. Although this isn't the direction I'm headed with my current Kolb, as I stated a few days back, there may be a Firefly in my future...someday. It is comforting to know that a particular aircraft is available, with excellent performance and handling, and still remain inside the guidelines of the regulations. It doesn't take years and years to build a Firefly, does it? Just curious............ Mike Welch in SW Chilly Utah, w/ no snow, working on tailfeather fabric today, in my heated shop, listening to Rush. > FireFlyers, > > The orginal request was made about performance of a Part 103-7 FireFly. And > my answer was given in that context. I don't know how many on the List have > flown a legal ultra light vehicle FireFly or currently own one, but I have > noticed quite a few currently sport N numbers. > > Anyone can take an experimental and boost the empty weigh by adding more > engine or whatever, but it takes some effort to stay within the Part 103-7 > bounds. If you have or have built a FireFly with less than 15 inch chord > ailerons and it is close to 254 pounds empty with a Rotax 447 mounted, it is > overpowered. All the comparisons you want to make to Kolbras and other > forms of Kolb heavy metal will not alter that fact. Check out AC 103-7 > Appendix 1, 2, 3 & 4. > > It is good that by the end of the year there will be no fat ultra light > vehicles as they will change into undocumented experimentals and illegals. > It was good to hear from Pat that they are offering the FireFly in UK with a > 27 hp engine. It seems to fly very well. > > The List seems to be dominated by the thought that more power is better. > But with the addition of power comes increased weight, wing loading and > stall speeds, increased dynamic loading of the air frame, which means things > start cracking. These must be bulked up and so more weight is added. If > you want to do this, it is your right, but cut us guys who want to remain > Part 103-7 legal a little slack. > > Jack B. Hart FF004 > Winchester, IN > > _________________________________________________________________ The best games are on Xbox 360. Click here for a special offer on an Xbox 360 Console. http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/wheretobuy/ ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:56:18 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Is this a Kolb? From: "jb92563" Definitely not a Kolb. There is no typical Kolb "cage" like structure behind the pilot to support the wings. -------- Ray Riverside County, CA Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=153533#153533 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:46:56 PM PST US From: David Key Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: How do you like your FireFly? good choice of music, you'll probably be done before they tour again.> From : mdnanwelch7@hotmail.com> To: kolb-list@matronics.com> Subject: RE: Kolb-L ist: Re: How do you like your FireFly?> Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 08:00:36 -08 > > > Jack and guys and girls,> > Very well stated, Jack. I think you deser ve quite a bit of credit for trying to maintain a legal Part 103 ultralight . It is no easy task, I'm sure, balancing necessary performance and safety requirements within such stringent perameters.> > Although this isn't the d irection I'm headed with my current Kolb, as I stated a few days back, ther e may be a Firefly in my future...someday. It is comforting to know that a particular aircraft is available, with excellent performance and handling, and still remain inside the guidelines of the regulations.> > It doesn't ta ke years and years to build a Firefly, does it? Just curious............> > Mike Welch in SW Chilly Utah, w/ no snow, working on tailfeather fabric to day, in my heated shop, listening to Rush.> > > > > > > > > > > FireFlyers, > >> > The orginal request was made about performance of a Part 103-7 FireF ly. And> > my answer was given in that context. I don't know how many on th e List have> > flown a legal ultra light vehicle FireFly or currently own o ne, but I have> > noticed quite a few currently sport N numbers.> >> > Anyo ne can take an experimental and boost the empty weigh by adding more> > eng ine or whatever, but it takes some effort to stay within the Part 103-7> > bounds. If you have or have built a FireFly with less than 15 inch chord> > ailerons and it is close to 254 pounds empty with a Rotax 447 mounted, it is> > overpowered. All the comparisons you want to make to Kolbras and othe r> > forms of Kolb heavy metal will not alter that fact. Check out AC 103-7 > > Appendix 1, 2, 3 & 4.> >> > It is good that by the end of the year ther e will be no fat ultra light> > vehicles as they will change into undocumen ted experimentals and illegals.> > It was good to hear from Pat that they a re offering the FireFly in UK with a> > 27 hp engine. It seems to fly very well.> >> > The List seems to be dominated by the thought that more power i s better.> > But with the addition of power comes increased weight, wing lo ading and> > stall speeds, increased dynamic loading of the air frame, whic h means things> > start cracking. These must be bulked up and so more weigh t is added. If> > you want to do this, it is your right, but cut us guys wh o want to remain> > Part 103-7 legal a little slack.> >> > Jack B. Hart FF0 04> > Winchester, IN> >> >> >> >> >> > ____________________________________ _____________________________> The best games are on Xbox 360. Click here f or a special offer on an Xbox 360 Console.> http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardw ========================> _ =====> > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:02:06 PM PST US From: jpiamber@yahoo.com Subject: Kolb-List: Yahoo! Auto Response JPI will be closed to observe Christmas December 22ND and will return on December 27TH. JPI will be closed to observe the New Year Holiday December 29TH and will return on January 2ND. The holiday season offers us a special opportunity to extend our personal thanks to our friends, and our very best wishes for the future. And so it is that we now gather together and wish to you a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. We consider you a good friend and extend our wishes for good health and good cheer. It is people like you who make being in business such a pleasure all year long. Our business is a source of pride to us, and with customers like you, we find going to work each day a rewarding experience. To our friends all over the world, JP Instruments extends to you and your loved ones our best wishes for a Vrolijke Kersttmis Sarbatori Felicite Joyeux Noel Tin Hao Nian Froeliche Weihnachten Felice Natale Kinga Shinnen Glad Julen Ichok Yilara Boas Festas Chrustovjna Wesloych Swiat Glaedelig Jul Veselele Vanoche Felice Pascuas Sretan Bozic Boldog Karacsonyi Unnepeket Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year! ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:04:45 PM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: How do you like your FireFly? Thanks Dave, but I was referring to Limbaugh. 8>) I finished the Poly Fiber fabric on the MkIII fuselage and got one coat of Poly Spray. Essentially today all I had to do is all the "touch up" work, like edges, and misc. reinforcements. I did a fantastic job on the Poly Fiber, if I do say so myself. That, or it's just easy, whichever. Anyway, the fuselage looks just plain awesome.... I heard once I ain't braggin' if it's true. Mike Welch....headed to Missouri on Monday to sight-see/vacation. Do Not Archive ________________________________ From: dhkey@msn.com Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: How do you like your FireFly? good choice of music, you'll probably be done before they tour again. > From: mdnanwelch7@hotmail.com > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: How do you like your FireFly? > Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 08:00:36 -0800 > > > > Jack and guys and girls, > > Very well stated, Jack. I think you deserve quite a bit of credit for trying to maintain a legal Part 103 ultralight. It is no easy task, I'm sure, balancing necessary performance and safety requirements within such stringent perameters. > > Although this isn't the direction I'm headed with my current Kolb, as I stated a few days back, there may be a Firefly in my future...someday. It is comforting to know that a particular aircraft is available, with excellent performance and handling, and still remain inside the guidelines of the regulations. > > It doesn't take years and years to build a Firefly, does it? Just curious............ > > Mike Welch in SW Chilly Utah, w/ no snow, working on tailfeather fabric today, in my heated shop, listening to Rush. > > >> FireFlyers, >> >> The orginal request was made about performance of a Part 103-7 FireFly. And >> my answer was given in that context. I don't know how many on the List have >> flown a legal ultra light vehicle FireFly or currently own one, but I have >> noticed quite a few currently sport N numbers. >> >> Anyone can take an experimental and boost the empty weigh by adding more >> engine or whatever, but it takes some effort to stay within the Part 103-7 >> bounds. If you have or have built a FireFly with less than 15 inch chord >> ailerons and it is close to 254 pounds empty with a Rotax 447 mounted, it is >> overpowered. All the comparisons you want to make to Kolbras and other >> forms of Kolb heavy metal will not alter that fact. Check out AC 103-7 >> Appendix 1, 2, 3 & 4. >> >> It is good that by the end of the year there will be no fat ultra light >> vehicles as they will change into undocumented experimentals and illegals. >> It was good to hear from Pat that they are offering the FireFly in UK with a >> 27 hp engine. It seems to fly very well. >> >> The List seems to be dominated by the thought that more power is better. >> But with the addition of power comes increased weight, wing loading and >> stall speeds, increased dynamic loading of the air frame, which means things >> start cracking. These must be bulked up and so more weight is added. If >> you want to do this, it is your right, but cut us guys who want to remain >> Part 103-7 legal a little slack. >> >> Jack B. Hart FF004 >> Winchester, IN >> >> >> >> >> > > _________________________________________________________________ > The best games are on Xbox 360. Click here for a special offer on an Xbox 360 Console. > http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/wheretobuy/ > > ================== > > _________________________________________________________________ Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_122007 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:13:01 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: How do you like your FireFly? From: "JetPilot" I think the Firefly would be a really fun plane to own, although I would not even consider making it 103 legal. Building it as an experimental and putting an N number on it is not hard at all. One could end up with a much better and durable plane by adding a couple more pounds. As far as engine, I would put a 503 on it, much more reliable an better than the 447. As far as some that say its overpowered, those are guys that have small engines and try to convince themselves that they made the correct choice by having a small, sub standard engine... Nothing says you need to fly around at high power all the time, but lots of power is a really great thing to have when you need it. More power is also safer, will get you out of trouble when you need it, you will get off the ground quicker, and on takeoff you will also be a lot higher at the end of runway.. If the engine quits on takeoff, you will have several hundred feet more altitude then they poor guy with the small, very light engine. I have flown with a lot of Learjet pilots over the years, and every one of them loved the 45 degree climb-outs, and quick takeoffs. I have NEVER heard anyone say that any plane they actually flew had to much power. The only people I ever hear talk about some planes "having to much power" are pilots of doggy, sluggish airplanes that are trying to convince themselves that a lack of power is a good thing. Mike MK-III Xtra 912-S And loving the steep climbs :) -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=153612#153612 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:54:56 PM PST US From: Bob Noyer Subject: Re: Kolb-List: FF tailwheel weight Dave, As promised, I weighed my FF's tail wheel. Have a rather std FF, brakes, larger tires, not much else for weight, about 3 gal fuel. Tailwheel on electronic scale=56# When I came home, the dang scale had 'slud' over and fell on driveway when I opened the door! Now my weight has dropped to 146 from 175!!! regards, Bob N. FireFly 070 Old Kolb http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/ronoy/ ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:11:58 PM PST US From: ross richardson Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Flight characteristics of the Kolb FSII & The Challenger I as J D have listened to the comments Kolb vs Challenger and had to say so mething. I have a Mark 3 w/912 and a modified Challenger 11 CW special w/503 and bot h have their good and not so called good points, it all depends on what you want or need .. My Challenger will perform and stay with the Mark 3 except for roll off dis tance and climb but then there is the difference of 50hp & 2 blade to a 80hp & 3 blade prop. I started flying UL's in the 70's to check my livestock in high grass and p ut out feed when the snow drifts where to high to get through in a truck, weather permitting. The tail dragger would permit m e to get in and out places as where a noise wheel would have keep me grounds. Flying beats covering 1800ac a 15 mi round trip on hourse back. Now I am in sunny Fl. and still have gotten in to trouble with the nose whe el in soft sand, both planes have HD landing gear and turf tires. > From: jstewart@inebraska.com> To: kolb-list@matronics.com> Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Flight characteristics of the Kolb FSII & The Challenger> D .D. Stewart" > > I've listened politely for a month now, holding my tongue. > What a load of crap. There are over 3500 Challen gers out there.> Probably the most successful design behind the Quicksilver (but hasn't gone> out of business 4~5 times). If you want something with a bigger tail, more> robust landing gear, and easier entrance/exit then the new LSS Challenger> takes care of all those issues. > But, that's not what you're here for. Like John says, if you want> to know more the Challenger l ist is the place to go. We certainly don't> spend any time bashing Kolbs on that list, regardless of their shortcomings.> I'll leave open a standing o ffer to take any Kolb list member for a> ride in a Challenger. We can even shut the engine off and dead-stick it to> a nice, soft landing.> > Kolb adm irer and list member since '98,> > J.D. Stewart> UltraFun AirSports, LLC> h ttp://www.ultrafunairsports.com> Challenger e-mail list> http://challenger. inebraska.com> Titan e-mail list> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Titanaircra ft/ > > > Do not archive> > > John Hauck wrote:> > > > > > Guess that is wh y a Challenger never appealed to me. > > And.........if I wanted to know mo re about Challengers, I > > think I would go over to the Challenger List to find out.> > > > > > > > > > Don't go an do something rash ! Besides, the you would just > > scare yourself learning about Challengers... Just readin g > > about Challengers makes me want to give up flying take up > > somethi ng safe like motorcycle racing.> > > > Mike> > > > --------> > "NO FEA R" - If you have no fear you did not go as > > fast as you could have ========================> _ =============> > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:57:52 PM PST US From: jerb Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: How do you like your FireFly? Mike, Do you have any stick time in a FireFly, I have and there is plenty of power there with a 447. Our 447 worked fine and mine on my Hawk so far has performed well. While I will agree the 503 is a good engine, (especially like oil injection no premix - less stale fuel to deal with) it would just add more weight to the airframe. Got to remember the FireFly is a light airplane compared to a FireStar and you need to consider the specified gross weight limit of the airframe. As for building it to meet the 254# limit, I'm confident it can be done - no extras. I know what ours weighed and what contributed to the weight. Go with 5" inch wheels, band brakes if any, wood prop, bare bone instruments (non-sensitive altimeter) - air speed, and toss up between analog EGT/CHT gauges or Grand Rapids Technologies EIS, and if you must, the open wind screen rather than the full enclosure. (I would still take the EIS, it's a wonderful piece of equipment.) As for climb out at our weight (both plane and our full figures) we still normally pushed in excess of 1000 F/S on climb out. We had an electric Variometer like used in gliders - was very sensitive and accurate. jerb At 08:11 PM 12/21/2007, you wrote: > >I think the Firefly would be a really fun plane to own, although I >would not even consider making it 103 legal. Building it as an >experimental and putting an N number on it is not hard at all. One >could end up with a much better and durable plane by adding a couple >more pounds. > >As far as engine, I would put a 503 on it, much more reliable an >better than the 447. As far as some that say its overpowered, those >are guys that have small engines and try to convince themselves that >they made the correct choice by having a small, sub standard >engine... Nothing says you need to fly around at high power all >the time, but lots of power is a really great thing to have when you >need it. More power is also safer, will get you out of trouble when >you need it, you will get off the ground quicker, and on takeoff you >will also be a lot higher at the end of runway.. If the engine >quits on takeoff, you will have several hundred feet more altitude >then they poor guy with the small, very light engine. > >I have flown with a lot of Learjet pilots over the years, and every >one of them loved the 45 degree climb-outs, and quick takeoffs. I >have NEVER heard anyone say that any plane they actually flew had to >much power. The only people I ever hear talk about some planes >"having to much power" are pilots of doggy, sluggish airplanes that >are trying to convince themselves that a lack of power is a good thing. > >Mike > >MK-III Xtra 912-S And loving the steep climbs :) > >-------- >"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as >you could have !!! > >Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=153612#153612 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.