Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:58 AM - Re: Single or Dual Controls (planecrazzzy)
2. 06:52 AM - Re: Single or Dual Controls? (Richard Girard)
3. 06:54 AM - Kolbra price list (lucien)
4. 07:03 AM - Re: Single or Dual Controls? (John Hauck)
5. 08:06 AM - Re: Single or Dual Controls (Denny Rowe)
6. 08:08 AM - Re: Single or Dual Controls? (Denny Rowe)
7. 08:39 AM - Re: Single or Dual Controls? (JetPilot)
8. 08:51 AM - Re: Re: Single or Dual Controls? (John Hauck)
9. 08:51 AM - Re: bent gear (JetPilot)
10. 09:42 AM - Re: Re: bent gear (John Hauck)
11. 10:18 AM - Re: Re: bent gear ()
12. 10:18 AM - Re: Fabric covering the fuselage (Dana Hague)
13. 10:23 AM - Re: Single or Dual Controls? (Dana Hague)
14. 10:32 AM - Re: Re: bent gear (robert bean)
15. 10:43 AM - Re: Re: Single or Dual Controls? (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
16. 01:26 PM - Re: Re: Single or Dual Controls? (John Hauck)
17. 02:31 PM - Re: Re: Single or Dual Controls? (possums)
18. 03:50 PM - Re: Mark III Classic ()
19. 04:00 PM - Re: Re: Single or Dual Controls? (John Hauck)
20. 04:51 PM - Re: Re: bent gear (ross richardson)
21. 04:58 PM - Re: 900ft Runway (ElleryWeld@aol.com)
22. 05:05 PM - Re: Re: bent gear (John Hauck)
23. 05:23 PM - Re: 900ft Runway (John Hauck)
24. 06:37 PM - Re: Re: bent gear now VGs (Bob Noyer)
25. 07:17 PM - Re: Re: VGs ()
26. 09:57 PM - Re: Mark III Classic (Richard Pike)
27. 10:02 PM - Re: Re: bent gear (Richard Pike)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Single or Dual Controls |
The Buttercup & Tailwind also use this stick in the middle...
The left side control is permanent and the right side will come off
with one bolt....They also do this from below , so the stick comes up
between yer legs... That style was in the Tailwind I got to fly.... But
I don't have pictures ( Right side came off with one bolt too )
.
.
.
Gotta Fly...
Mike & "Jaz" in MN
.
.
PS I threw in a picture of the SIMPLE trim system...
.
.
--------
.
.
.
.
.
Do Not Archive
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| Subject: | Re: Single or Dual Controls? |
For what it's worth, the dual sticks are not that hard to get around, even
for an old fart like me. After the Challenger II, getting in and out of the
Mk III is like falling into a recliner. I fly from the right seat and it's
very comfy.
Rick
On Dec 30, 2007 8:34 PM, John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
> > The stick and throttle are _both_ in the center? Which hand do you use
> on
> > which?
> >
> > -Dana
>
>
> Dana:
>
> Flying from the left seat, right hand on the stick and left on the
> throttle.
>
> Flying from the right seat, left hand on the stick and right hand on the
> throttle.
>
> Seems awkward, but only takes a few minutes to get accustomed to flying
> that
> way.
>
> john h
> mkIII
>
>
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| Subject: | Kolbra price list |
Hi all,
Er forgive my ignorance, but does anyone have a current price sheet for the Kolbra
handy? I can't seem to find one on the kolb factory site, though there appears
to be one for the MK III and the others.
Doing some thinkin, pencil pushin and calkeelatin and need a detailed price list
before my 6th grade education runs out of steam.
Just show me where to click on the site (or just email Travis)?
Thanks,
LS
--------
LS
FS II
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| Subject: | Re: Single or Dual Controls? |
Rick:
Dual sticks can get pretty complicated for flying passengers that are
not familiar with entering and exiting the mkIII.
I removed the left stick for that purpose. Another reason for removing
the left stick is to allow larger passengers to fly. With two sticks,
size of the thighs may restrict lateral stick movement.
john h
mkIII
For what it's worth, the dual sticks are not that hard to get around,
even for an old fart like me.
Rick
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| Subject: | Re: Single or Dual Controls |
> I didn't like the stick interference with the throttle at full up.
> BB
>
>
Bob,
I shortened the throttle lever slightly to cure the stick interferance.
Denny
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Single or Dual Controls? |
>
> The stick and throttle are _both_ in the center? Which hand do you use on
> which?
>
> -Dana
>
> do not archive
Pilot in left seat, right hand on stick, left hand across body for throttle,
not as hardas it seems.
Denny
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Single or Dual Controls? |
I have dual controls in my MK-III Xtra, and they are great. I have flown a lot
of people, different sizes, and getting in and out of the plane is not an issue.
If a person is not capable of lifting thier knee high enough to get over
the stick, they probably would not be capable of getting into any plane except
an airliner. We to take passengers that have to be lifted into their seats
in airliners, but thats where I draw the line in my Kolb.
For passengers, dual sticks are great. Its rare that I get a passenger that does
not want to fly the plane. With dual sticks I can let them do a lot more,
and have my hand on my stick ready to correct if needed. I do let my wife and
friends try takeoffs and landings, having two sticks makes it easy and much safer.
Overall, its makes for a much better experience for the passenger to have
his own stick, and makes me feel good also. So the issue of having to lift
my knee 10 inches or so when getting in and out is really a non-issue, its well
worth it many times over.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
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Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Single or Dual Controls? |
> I have dual controls in my MK-III Xtra, and they are great. I have
flown a lot of people, different sizes, and getting in and out of the plane
is not an issue. If a person is not capable of lifting thier knee high
enough to get over the stick, they probably would not be capable of getting
into any plane except an airliner.
>
> Mike
Mike:
I don't recall saying anything about the passenger being able to lift their
leg to clear the stick. Hell, I'm 68 and have a hard time bending my own
knee and getting my leg over or around the stick.
Big problem with flying passengers is getting them and out of the aircraft
without destroying it. Wait until some club foot kicks the inside of the
windshield, scratching it when they sling their size 14 over the stick, or
kick the instrument panel. Then again, there is the limit on just how large
a passengers thighs can be, or their belly, before they interfere with stick
throw and safe flight.
Glad yours works perfect with small, skinny passengers.
Old pilot that flew many passengers in Fat Albert for the Kolb Factory over
the years,
john h
mkIII
Message 9
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The effects of VG's make for much more forgiving landings. The plane does not
tend to quit flying and drop suddenly like before. That combined with much more
controllable slow approaches, and reduced stall makes them a huge safety advantage
for Kolbs. If I ever have an engine out on my MK-III, approaching
10 MPH slower, and landing in a field at 30 MPH instead of 40 is a HUGE advantage.
It could make the difference between stopping or not, and not dropping
hard could make the difference between flipping over on my back or not.
With the overwhelming evidence of the benefits and large number of very positive
reports about VG's on Kolbs, its hard to understand why anyone would not have
them. They are only 100 bucks, and a couple hours to install from:
www.landshorter.com
Mike Bigelow
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155189#155189
Message 10
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> With the overwhelming evidence of the benefits and large number of very
positive reports about VG's on Kolbs, its hard to understand why anyone
would not have them. They are only 100 bucks, and a couple hours to install
from:
>
> www.landshorter.com
>
>
> Mike Bigelow
Mike:
How much time did you put on your Kolb before you started flying it with
VGs?
What kind of results did you get without and with VGs?
With all those pros, there must be a few cons.
Learn how to land your Kolb without VGs.
Get rid of the porcupine look.
Streamline maintenance by making it much easier to wash the wings.
I don't have the porcupine look and still don't like washing wings.
john h
mkIII
Message 11
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My VGs cost about $8.00 for alum roof flashing. About day to fab and a day to
install. Should have spent several days locating them. THey are easy to locate
to reduce stalll speed and difficult to locate to keep from losing cruise speed.
My Classic now lands very much like the early Citabria with the 115 hp
engine. Also, similar to a Kitfox in the grass.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Fabric covering the fuselage |
At 11:09 PM 12/30/2007, Carlos wrote:
>I can't think of a good reason to cover the fuselage if you are in a
>temperate climate...
I would think that a covered fuselage would make slips much more
effective. My Ultrastar (the only Kolb I've flown so take this for what
it's worth) has no fuselage or pod of any kind and slips basically do
nothing at all.
-Dana
--
HAL 9000: Dave. Put down those Windows disks, Dave. DAVE!
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Single or Dual Controls? |
At 11:08 AM 12/31/2007, Denny Rowe wrote:
>Pilot in left seat, right hand on stick, left hand across body for
>throttle, not as hardas it seems.
It DOES sound awkward!
I can appreciate the complexity of dual sticks, but a center stick and dual
outboard throttles (a torque tube under the seats like the 2-place
Quicksilvers; very easy to implement) would seem to make more sense.
-Dana
--
HAL 9000: Dave. Put down those Windows disks, Dave. DAVE!
Message 14
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Gents, regardless of the little differences we might have in our Kolbs,
let us be grateful for the choice we made to own one at all.
Any time you may be tempted by one of those $80,000 airplanes, remember
the advantages of the Kolb:
1. no payments
2. $65000 (in my case) saved
-which @ 4% = $2600 year free money
= 790 gallons of gas
=316 hours of fun flying
(or XXXX gallons of beer)
3. make your own parts from old lawn chairs, duct tape
4. free annual
5. no physical
6. add your own point here
BB
do not archive
On 31, Dec 2007, at 12:39 PM, John Hauck wrote:
>
>
> > With the overwhelming evidence of the benefits and large number
> of very positive reports about VG's on Kolbs, its hard to
> understand why anyone would not have them. They are only 100
> bucks, and a couple hours to install from:
>>
>> www.landshorter.com
>>
>>
>> Mike Bigelow
>
> Mike:
>
> How much time did you put on your Kolb before you started flying it
> with VGs?
>
> What kind of results did you get without and with VGs?
>
> With all those pros, there must be a few cons.
>
> Learn how to land your Kolb without VGs.
>
> Get rid of the porcupine look.
>
> Streamline maintenance by making it much easier to wash the wings.
>
> I don't have the porcupine look and still don't like washing wings.
>
> john h
> mkIII
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Single or Dual Controls? |
The last time I flew Fat Albert you could move the stick almost three inches
in all directions without any control movement. I didn't notice the slop in
flight but... That really turned me off on dual sticks. Are all dual stick
Kolbs so sloppy?
The bigger concern is having a passenger grab the stick at the wrong time
and mess up your day. With the single stick at least you would know what
they are doing.
Do not archive
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIC
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 11:51 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Single or Dual Controls?
>
>
> > I have dual controls in my MK-III Xtra, and they are great. I have
> flown a lot of people, different sizes, and getting in and out of the
> plane is not an issue. If a person is not capable of lifting thier knee
> high enough to get over the stick, they probably would not be capable of
> getting into any plane except an airliner.
>>
>> Mike
>
>
> Mike:
>
> I don't recall saying anything about the passenger being able to lift
> their leg to clear the stick. Hell, I'm 68 and have a hard time bending
> my own knee and getting my leg over or around the stick.
>
> Big problem with flying passengers is getting them and out of the aircraft
> without destroying it. Wait until some club foot kicks the inside of the
> windshield, scratching it when they sling their size 14 over the stick, or
> kick the instrument panel. Then again, there is the limit on just how
> large a passengers thighs can be, or their belly, before they interfere
> with stick throw and safe flight.
>
> Glad yours works perfect with small, skinny passengers.
>
> Old pilot that flew many passengers in Fat Albert for the Kolb Factory
> over the years,
>
> john h
> mkIII
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Single or Dual Controls? |
That really turned me off on dual sticks. Are all dual stick
> Kolbs so sloppy?
>
> Rick Neilsen
Rick:
Only the dual sticks old Kolb designed and sold.
Jim Hauck and Seth Mathews (RIP) designed my dual controls in 1991. Old
Kolb was not interested in them and designed their own. I was lucky. By
the time they designed and installed dual controls in Fat Albert, Dan had
taken over as the company MKIII pilot. I made a couple flights with
passengers in Fat Albert with the dual controls and was not comfortable. In
1998 or 99 TNK started producing dual controls like the ones in my mkIII.
There is no slop in our dual controls.
john h
mkIII - Heading out the door to meet James Trip and do my last flight for
2007. Beautiful day at hauck's holler and Gantt International Airport.
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Single or Dual Controls? |
At 01:42 PM 12/31/2007, you wrote:
><NeilsenRM@comcast.net>
>
>
>The bigger concern is having a passenger grab the stick at the wrong
>time and mess up your day. With the single stick at least you would
>know what they are doing.
>
>Do not archive
>
>Rick Neilsen
Stuff like that has happened. For instance: engine out and passenger
braces against the rudder pedals for
what he thinks is the impending crash - and creates one. Hate to have
a passenger (all full of adrenaline)
grab the stick at the wrong time. You would have to break his arm to
get him to let go.
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Mark III Classic |
I agree..........how can you beat a Kolb for pleasure and low cost operation? I
have seriously considered the Pipistrel Virus made in Slovania. But, the $100,000+
bucks, the annuals, the taxes etc.etc. makes it much easier to get up earlier
so that I can get to where I am going on time in my Classic. The Pipistrel
folks do seem to have their act together. Take a look at their self launch
sailplane on video. It is called the "Taurus".
Vic N4201G
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Single or Dual Controls? |
> Stuff like that has happened. For instance: engine out and passenger
> braces against the rudder pedals for
> what he thinks is the impending crash - and creates one. Hate to have a
> passenger (all full of adrenaline)
> grab the stick at the wrong time. You would have to break his arm to get
> him to let go.
Hey Possum:
Happy New Year!
That is why I prefer to fly solo. Always have. Don't have to worry about a
passenger pulling a more stupid stunt than me. Airplane flies a lot better
too.
You don't have to worry about it in the Possum Special. It's single place.
Take care,
john h
mkIII
912ULS - 160.5 hours
Message 20
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I seen your comments about the VG's, could you give me some more informatio
n on them, ( how they are made and locations).
I have a Classic 111 /912UL also which I got N numbered 2 weeks ago. I don'
t have that much time in it plus had done several changes and modifications
to it. I had a commercial pilot and who also flies a tow plane for hand gl
ider ( 50-100 per week end ) test fly it. He said it handled fine and then
we took it up (duel ) it see how it handled, flew GREAT and everything see
med to be in adjusted properly.
He called a friend of mine that night and commented on how well the plane f
lew and handled. He has flown a lot of different types of planes but not a
Kolb Mark 111 and was really surprised. Now I am looking at the VG's to hel
p with the 900' airstrip I have at home. > From: apilot@surewest.net> Subj
ect: Re: Kolb-List: Re: bent gear> To: kolb-list@matronics.com> Date: Mon,
west.net>> > My VGs cost about $8.00 for alum roof flashing. About day to f
ab and a day to install. Should have spent several days locating them. THey
are easy to locate to reduce stalll speed and difficult to locate to keep
from losing cruise speed. My Classic now lands very much like the early Cit
=======================> > >
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: 900ft Runway |
900 Ft runway in any Kolb shouldn't be a problem and I dont know if VG's will
make the runway any longer But Good Luck with that Project anyway :o)
Ellery
do not archive
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
Message 22
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Ross:
What kind of changes and modifications did you do to your mkIII?
john h
MKIII
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: 900ft Runway |
Ellery:
May be some of that new VG data jetpilot was talking about.
Yea, if it will stretch a strip, probably should consider a set.
However, 750 feet will more than adequately take care of a mkIII with
912UL, carrying a passenger, without VG's.
I checked out my landings this afternoon. Make that singular. I only
did one on my grass strip. MKIII didn't fall out of the sky when it
stalled, sorta kissed that wet grass and cow crap. Musta been the 40
degrees of flaps and landing on the ground and not a foot or two above
it.
john h
mkIII
900 Ft runway in any Kolb shouldn't be a problem and I dont know if
VG's will make the runway any longer But Good Luck with that Project
anyway :o)
Ellery
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: bent gear now VGs |
Ross, ck the archives...a lot of discussions, how-to, etc on VGs.
regards,
Bob N. FireFly 070 Old Kolb
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/ronoy/
do not archive
Message 25
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Mr. Pike and Mr. Shackleford seem to have very good information about VGs. Also,
Cub Crafters has some good pictures regarding location, but the airfoil is
different and therefore, may not be applicable to a Kolb airfoil. Vic
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Mark III Classic |
I have a couple hours in the Virus. Nice airplane in terms of quality,
finish, but not pleasant to fly. Would much prefer an Aeroprakt Vista
for about $40K less, or a Stingsport for the same price as the Virus. If
you ever get a chance to fly either of those airplanes, take it. If you
get a chance to fly a Virus, take that too, it will make you appreciate
your Kolb...
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
apilot@surewest.net wrote:
>
> I agree..........how can you beat a Kolb for pleasure and low cost operation?
I have seriously considered the Pipistrel Virus made in Slovania. But, the $100,000+
bucks, the annuals, the taxes etc.etc. makes it much easier to get up
earlier so that I can get to where I am going on time in my Classic. The Pipistrel
folks do seem to have their act together. Take a look at their self launch
sailplane on video. It is called the "Taurus".
> Vic N4201G
>
>
>
Message 27
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Well there is one drawback - the curmudgeon factor.
For which there is apparently no solution...
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
John Hauck wrote:
> <snip>
> Mike:
>
> How much time did you put on your Kolb before you started flying it
> with VGs?
>
> What kind of results did you get without and with VGs?
>
> With all those pros, there must be a few cons.
> <snip>
>
> john h
> mkIII
>
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