---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 01/13/08: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:38 AM - Firestar I question (Richard Girard) 2. 08:46 AM - FS I Question (Lanny Fetterman) 3. 09:18 AM - Re: Firestar I question (planecrazzzy) 4. 10:40 AM - Re: Firestar I question (Vincent Nicely) 5. 11:35 AM - Rotten cage tubes found. Photos attached. (olendorf) 6. 01:07 PM - Re: Congratulations to Cristal (ropermike) 7. 01:27 PM - Re: Rotten cage tubes found. Photos attached. (The BaronVonEvil) 8. 02:39 PM - Re: Firestar I question (Dana Hague) 9. 02:48 PM - Re: Rotten cage tubes found. Photos attached. (Wade Lawicki) 10. 05:45 PM - Re: Firestar I question (gary aman) 11. 06:00 PM - Re: Firestar I question (ElleryWeld@aol.com) 12. 06:21 PM - Re: Rotten cage tubes found. Photos attached. (John Hauck) 13. 07:30 PM - Re: Rotten cage tubes found. Photos attached. (robert bean) 14. 07:55 PM - Re: Firestar I question (Dana Hague) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:38:16 AM PST US From: "Richard Girard" Subject: Kolb-List: Firestar I question I'm getting the Firestar ready for its certification inspection and I'm curious about the leading edge tubes that stick out of the wing root about a foot. Any idea what they do? I'd just as soon cut them off and plug them, but not if they actually have a purpose. TIA. Rick do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:46:01 AM PST US From: Lanny Fetterman Subject: Kolb-List: FS I Question Rick, The only thing I can think of, is that it help`s the fabric gap seal keep it`s shape. Also. I tie mine together to help keep the wings steady when I trailer to the airport. I don`t know if there is any other reason or not. Lanny N598LF ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:18:02 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Firestar I question From: "planecrazzzy" I use mine to keep the wing secure in the transport mode.... Gotta Fly... Mike & "Jaz" in MN PS I would also like to secure them to each other in flight for a little extra strength... -------- .. .. .. .. .. Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157820#157820 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00379_104.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00377_133.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00376_109.jpg ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:40:07 AM PST US From: Vincent Nicely Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Firestar I question Rick, I find the tube extensions useful when folding and unfolding the wings. I trailer my plane each time it is used and use a tripod to support the unfolded wing prior to inserting the pins. The tripod supports the outer end of the wing and the tube extension supports the front edge of the wing by resting on the top of the full enclosure. Makes the folding and unfolding a one-man job. Also, the extension is used in the folded plane to tie the wings together. Vince Nicely Firestar II 503 DCDI 465 hours Richard Girard wrote: > I'm getting the Firestar ready for its certification inspection and > I'm curious about the leading edge tubes that stick out of the wing > root about a foot. Any idea what they do? I'd just as soon cut them > off and plug them, but not if they actually have a purpose. TIA. > > Rick > > do not archive ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:35:23 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Rotten cage tubes found. Photos attached. From: "olendorf" Today I was cleaning up the cage getting it ready to start painting it with primer. I found a rotted tube. It wasn't noticeable until I started wiping it down with a scrubbing pad. You can see it is wet inside the tube. I had to test the other tubes as well and I didn't know how best to do it. What I did was I took a piece of aluminum tubing and started hitting the other tubes. When I came to the spot in the other side of the cage I left a dent so I know that side was weak as well. I guess that is a good way to test your tubing even if it is covered. It was good to find it now rather then while landing. So now I have two tubes that need to be replaced. Does anyone know what size and type of tubing I will need? I plan on bringing it to an aircraft repair shop but I would like to know the size in case I need to provide my own material. -------- Scott Olendorf Original Firestar, Rotax 447, Powerfin prop Schenectady, NY http://KolbFirestar.googlepages.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157840#157840 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/rot_3_253.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/rot_2_363.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/rot_1_187.jpg ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:07:51 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Congratulations to Cristal From: "ropermike" Congrats Crystal! You've come a long way in a short time! -------- The next best thing to playing and winning is playing and losing!...Mike Hillger Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157855#157855 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:27:10 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Rotten cage tubes found. Photos attached. From: "The BaronVonEvil" Hi Scott, One method to use to inspect tubing for integrity is to use an awl or sharp pick and apply firm hand pressure with the point of the tool to the tube in question. If the awl or pick penetrates the tube or deforms it, you have a corroded tube. I would very carefully inspect all the lower tubes for corrosion as you may have other tubes that are in bad shape. You will have to call Travis at Kolb to find out the wall thickness of the tubes that are damaged. The construction plans for my Firestar II do not specify tube wall thickness. Carlos G Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157856#157856 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:39:43 PM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Firestar I question At 10:37 AM 1/13/2008, Richard Girard wrote: >I'm getting the Firestar ready for its certification inspection and I'm >curious about the leading edge tubes that stick out of the wing root about >a foot. Any idea what they do? I'd just as soon cut them off and plug >them, but not if they actually have a purpose. TIA. I've seen Kolbs both with and without the extensions. My Ultrastar has the extensions, and there's another section of tubing that slips over them and joins them together when the wings are unfolded. Whether that piece is actually necessary I don't know, it should stiffen the wings a bit and it also helps to support the fabric center gap seal (clear plastic, actually, on mine). IIRC it's not shown that way on the drawings, though. I've never flown the plane without it, but I figure it can't hurt. -Dana -- Question Authority and the authorities will question you! ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:48:39 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Rotten cage tubes found. Photos attached. From: "Wade Lawicki" Looks like the result of no drain holes in the fabric, if left out with inadequate cover the moisture or rain settles in the low spot. Tube has to be replaced so you could cut through it and mic the wall thickness before you take it to be repaired. Aircraft Spruce will have what you need. Fly Safe, Wade Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157869#157869 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:45:00 PM PST US From: gary aman Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Firestar I question Those leading edge extensions are real handy if you fold and unfold regularly.if you have the long windshield installed,the tubes rest on the "U" frame so you can rest the tip of the wing on the ground and walk to the fuselage to install the pin.With out them,you must support the wing leading edge as you work your way to the cage to install the pins.The dihedral will not allow the extensions to line up to tie them together easily. At 10:37 AM 1/13/2008, Richard Girard wrote: >I'm getting the Firestar ready for its certification inspection and I'm >curious about the leading edge tubes that stick out of the wing root about >a foot. Any idea what they do? I'd just as soon cut them off and plug >them, but not if they actually have a purpose. TIA. I've seen Kolbs both with and without the extensions. My Ultrastar has the extensions, and there's another section of tubing that slips over them and joins them together when the wings are unfolded. Whether that piece is actually necessary I don't know, it should stiffen the wings a bit and it also helps to support the fabric center gap seal (clear plastic, actually, on mine). IIRC it's not shown that way on the drawings, though. I've never flown the plane without it, but I figure it can't hurt. -Dana -- Question Authority and the authorities will question you! ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:00:42 PM PST US From: ElleryWeld@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Firestar I question My gap seal hooked to the tubes your talking about cutting off, if it wer me I would take advantage of all the uses of them and not cut them off. Holding wing in place while installing pins, and a good place to secure the wings in a trailer, or on a open trailer, I use them to secure the wings when I hauled it down the road tail first without a trailer, but its your plane have fun trying to find another handy tool built in that makes life easier with a Kolb or cut them off and come up with alternative ways to do what they can do for you. its your decision have fun with it Ellery in Maine do not archive **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:21:13 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Rotten cage tubes found. Photos attached. From: "John Hauck" Hi Folks: May have corroded from inside out. Primary reason to use tube seal inside the fuselage and other 4130 tubes. Just cause you can not see it, does not mean it ain't rusting away while you sleep and fly. The awl punch test will tell you when the tube is about ready to fail. Won't tell you anything about a tube that is rusting from inside out and not reached the point that the awl will penetrate the corroded tube. I have been using one quart of Stitts Tube Seal for 24 years and three Kolb fuselages. Still have a pint left. Never had a tube rust through, yet. ;-) Ignoring it will not make it go away. -------- John Hauck MKIII/912ULS hauck's holler, alabama Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157895#157895 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:30:06 PM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Rotten cage tubes found. Photos attached. Scott, I'll try to get back to you offlist. BB On 13, Jan 2008, at 2:35 PM, olendorf wrote: > > Today I was cleaning up the cage getting it ready to start painting > it with primer. I found a rotted tube. It wasn't noticeable > until I started wiping it down with a scrubbing pad. You can see > it is wet inside the tube. > > I had to test the other tubes as well and I didn't know how best to > do it. What I did was I took a piece of aluminum tubing and started > hitting the other tubes. When I came to the spot in the other side > of the cage I left a dent so I know that side was weak as well. I > guess that is a good way to test your tubing even if it is covered. > > It was good to find it now rather then while landing. > > So now I have two tubes that need to be replaced. Does anyone know > what size and type of tubing I will need? I plan on bringing it to > an aircraft repair shop but I would like to know the size in case I > need to provide my own material. > > -------- > Scott Olendorf > Original Firestar, Rotax 447, Powerfin prop > Schenectady, NY > http://KolbFirestar.googlepages.com > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157840#157840 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/rot_3_253.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/rot_2_363.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/rot_1_187.jpg > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:55:56 PM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Firestar I question At 08:44 PM 1/13/2008, gary aman wrote: >Those leading edge extensions are real handy if you fold and unfold >regularly.if you have the long windshield installed,the tubes rest on the >"U" frame so you can rest the tip of the wing on the ground and walk to >the fuselage to install the pin.With out them,you must support the wing >leading edge as you work your way to the cage to install the pins.The >dihedral will not allow the extensions to line up to tie them together easily. The Ultrastar is different, the extended tubes actually make it _more_ difficult to unfold the wings, since the pivot point is at the main spar and not the rear... the rear fitting is its own support as you lift the wingtips up. There's so little dihedral (if any) that slipping the splice tube into place is no problem. -Dana -- Nowadays only a lawyer can tell legal from illegal, and the lawyers don't know the difference between right and wrong. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.