---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 01/18/08: 27 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:26 AM - Starhill-Nauga Field Fly Around - July 11th, 12th, 13th (John Bickham) 2. 08:29 AM - Re: iron for fabric repair (henry.voris) 3. 09:44 AM - Re: Starhill-Nauga Field Fly Around - July 11th, 12th, 13th (JetPilot) 4. 09:51 AM - Re: Re: Streamlining struts (pj.ladd) 5. 10:04 AM - Re: Re: Starhill-Nauga Field Fly Around - July 11th, 12th, 13th (robert bean) 6. 11:26 AM - Re: Streamlining struts (Thom Riddle) 7. 11:33 AM - Re: Re: Starhill-Nauga Field Fly Around - July 11th, 12th, 13th (David Key) 8. 11:57 AM - Re: Re: Starhill-Nauga Field Fly Around - July 11th, 12th, 13th (John Hauck) 9. 12:04 PM - Engine for sale (Richard Girard) 10. 12:18 PM - Re: Re: Starhill-Nauga Field Fly Around - July 11th, 12th, 13th (John Hauck) 11. 12:31 PM - Re: Re: Starhill-Nauga Field Fly Around - July 11th, 12th, 13th (David Key) 12. 01:45 PM - Kolb-List Streamlining strutts (BMWBikeCrz@aol.com) 13. 01:54 PM - Re: Re: Starhill-Nauga Field Fly Around - July 11th, 12th, 13th (John Hauck) 14. 01:57 PM - Re: Kolb-List Streamlining strutts (John Hauck) 15. 03:04 PM - Re: Starhill-Nauga Field Fly Around - July 11th, 12th, 13th (John Bickham) 16. 04:47 PM - Re: Starhill-Nauga Field Fly Around (Jimmy Young) 17. 04:49 PM - Re: Re: Starhill-Nauga Field Fly Around - July 11th, 12th, 13th (Richard Girard) 18. 04:57 PM - Re: Starhill-Nauga Field Fly Around - July 11th, 12th, 13th (George Alexander) 19. 05:59 PM - Re: Starhill-Nauga Field Fly Around (John Bickham) 20. 06:00 PM - Re: Kolb-List Streamlining strutts (Vic Peters) 21. 06:46 PM - Re: Starhill-Nauga Field Fly Around - July 11th, 12th, 13th (John Bickham) 22. 07:05 PM - Re: Re: Starhill-Nauga Field Fly Around - July 11th, 12th, 13th (John Hauck) 23. 07:19 PM - Re: Re: Starhill-Nauga Field Fly Around - July 11th, 12th, 13th (Richard Girard) 24. 07:51 PM - Holes in the sky (Larry Cottrell) 25. 08:27 PM - Re: Holes in the sky (Wayne Boyter) 26. 08:49 PM - Re: Holes in the sky (John Hauck) 27. 09:06 PM - Re: Re: Starhill-Nauga Field Fly Around (Robert Laird) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:26:37 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Starhill-Nauga Field Fly Around - July 11th, 12th, 13th From: "John Bickham" Just wanted to let everyone know that we have settled on a date for the "2nd Annual Starhill-Nauga Field Fly Around". Mark your calenders for July 11, 12, and 13. This is just a gathering of Kolbs and other fans of light planes. We fly, eat, and visit. We had a great time last year even with marginal weather. Ronnie Morgan will probably cook another wild pig Saturday night. Nauga Field (LS35) is located about 15 nm NW of Baton Rouge, LA. The runway is 1550 feet tree line to tree line. Trees are 60 - 80 foot tall at both ends. Don't want to insult anyone, but . . . . This field will be a challenge if you are used to landing on 2500 to 5000 foot runways all the time. It can be visually intimidating if you aren't used to it and up on your short field techniques. Start practicing if you are rusty on your short field techniques. We don't fly with passengers in the summer. Short-soft field and high density altitude (damn hot and humid) doesn't leave a lot of safety margin for two person operation. http://www.airnav.com/airport/LS35 Folks planning on attending so far: John Williamson John Hauck Gary Haley Steven Green ? David Key ? On Saturday, we cross the Mississippi River and eat catfish dinners at False River Airpark (HZR) hosted by EAA Chapter 244. Saturday evening we will probably have a short landing contest. John "lock em up" Hauck won last year. Most of the folks camp or bunk in a few places. This is a small community, if you plan on hotel/motel make reservations early. My wife and friends do all the cooking. She loves me and enjoys trying to be a good host. As we get closer, let me know if you plan on attending so we can get the groceries right. Mark you calendars and come enjoy Starhill hospitality. We pass a good time. Thanks too much, John Bickham Mark IIIC w/ 912UL St. Francisville, LA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158983#158983 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/nauga_field_nw_end_348.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/nauga_field_se_end_469.jpg ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:29:03 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: iron for fabric repair From: "henry.voris" Guys, Thank you for all the good advice. I'm gonna get the "Black Baron" from ACS & the IR sensor from eBay... Aloha, -------- Henry Firefly Five-Charlie-Bravo Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159031#159031 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:44:07 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Starhill-Nauga Field Fly Around - July 11th, 12th, 13th From: "JetPilot" Why host a fly in at a strip that is so short and dangerous, a place where many people cant land ? Half the fun at a fly in is being able to bring wives, taking people for rides etc, so why hold it at a strip where you cant take a passenger for a ride? It makes zero sense to try to have an event at such a sub standard field that it keeps many away. There are airfields that are safer, where people would enjoy flying during the event, rather than just barely getting in and dreading the takeoff to leave. Even if I were off that week, I would not even consider attending an event at such a substandard and intimidating strip. Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159044#159044 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:51:55 AM PST US From: "pj.ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Streamlining struts ..yeah...and DEEP, too..> Beauford. I remember that joke. Pat :-) ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:04:37 AM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Starhill-Nauga Field Fly Around - July 11th, 12th, 13th Looks good to me. The only intimidating factor is the curvature of the earth for me to traverse getting there. BB, MkIII, wimpy Geo, skinny girlfriend :) do not archive On 18, Jan 2008, at 12:41 PM, JetPilot wrote: > > Why host a fly in at a strip that is so short and dangerous, a > place where many people cant land ? Half the fun at a fly in is > being able to bring wives, taking people for rides etc, so why hold > it at a strip where you cant take a passenger for a ride? > > It makes zero sense to try to have an event at such a sub standard > field that it keeps many away. There are airfields that are > safer, where people would enjoy flying during the event, rather > than just barely getting in and dreading the takeoff to leave. > Even if I were off that week, I would not even consider attending > an event at such a substandard and intimidating strip. > > Mike > > -------- > "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast > as you could have !!! > > Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159044#159044 > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:26:39 AM PST US From: Thom Riddle Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Streamlining struts Roger, You reach a point of rapidly diminishing returns (streamline effect) if the ratio of the airfoil length (fore to aft) to tube diameter (airfoil thickness) goes past about 4 to 1. So for a tube diameter of 1" the airfoil material need not be more than about 8" (4 x 2) plus an inch for deviation from straight line, or about 9" should do it for each airfoil section. Thom in Buffalo ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:33:13 AM PST US From: David Key Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Starhill-Nauga Field Fly Around - July 11th, 12th, 13th If you're scared now wait till you see it.> Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Starhil l-Nauga Field Fly Around - July 11th, 12th, 13th> From: orcabonita@hotmail. com> Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 09:41:24 -0800> To: kolb-list@matronics.com> > host a fly in at a strip that is so short and dangerous, a place where man y people cant land ? Half the fun at a fly in is being able to bring wives, taking people for rides etc, so why hold it at a strip where you cant take a passenger for a ride?> > It makes zero sense to try to have an event at such a sub standard field that it keeps many away. There are airfields that are safer, where people would enjoy flying during the event, rather than j ust barely getting in and dreading the takeoff to leave. Even if I were off that week, I would not even consider attending an event at such a substand ard and intimidating strip. > > Mike> > --------> "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!> > Kolb MK-II I Xtra, 912-S> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matron ================> > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:57:45 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Starhill-Nauga Field Fly Around - July 11th, 12th, 13th > Why host a fly in at a strip that is so short and dangerous, a place where many people cant land ? > > It makes zero sense to try to have an event at such a sub standard field > that it keeps many away. Even if I were off that week, I would not even consider attending an event at such a substandard and intimidating strip. > > Mike Mike B: Nauga Field keeps out the riff raff, and those that can not Kolbs. Some of us had a ball last year at the first annual Nauga Field flyin at Star Hill, LA. I made the first landing at takeoff at Nauga Field the first of December 2005, on the way to the Last Flight of the Year down the coast of Texas and up the Rio Grande. Mike B, you might be able to land and take off there if you worked on it a little. ;-) john h mkIII - Holder of the first Nauga Award for winning the Nauga Field Short Landing Contest 2007. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:04:45 PM PST US From: "Richard Girard" Subject: Kolb-List: Engine for sale I have a brand new 340 Kawasaki I bought for my Cumulus motorglider that I've decided I don't want to use. No reflection on the engine, I'm just a flyer, not a tinkerer and I'm also a cert'ed Rotax mechanic, so I decided to use a 447 as per the design spec's. I have a 2:1 belt drive reduction for the engine, too. All it needs is an electric starter and Northern power quoted me $60 for a new one (versus $800 for a Rotax). Anyway, I can't even start my Cummie until I get some other projects done, so I'm selling the Kaw. $600 + shipping and you'll have a nice engine and redrive. Rick ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:18:29 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Starhill-Nauga Field Fly Around - July 11th, 12th, 13th > Nauga Field keeps out the riff raff, and those that can not Kolbs. Shoulda read: "and those that can not fly their Kolbs." john h mkIII ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:31:41 PM PST US From: David Key Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Starhill-Nauga Field Fly Around - July 11th, 12th, 13th I made the first two person landing.> From: jhauck@elmore.rr.com> To: kolb- list@matronics.com> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Starhill-Nauga Field Fly Ar ound - July 11th, 12th, 13th> Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 13:54:58 -0600> > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" > > > > Why host a fly in at a strip that is so short and dangerous, a place > where m any people cant land ?> >> > It makes zero sense to try to have an event at such a sub standard field > > that it keeps many away.> Even if I were off that week, I would not even consider attending an event > at such a substa ndard and intimidating strip.> >> > Mike> > > Mike B:> > Nauga Field keeps out the riff raff, and those that can not Kolbs.> > Some of us had a ball l ast year at the first annual Nauga Field flyin at > Star Hill, LA.> > I mad e the first landing at takeoff at Nauga Field the first of December > 2005, on the way to the Last Flight of the Year down the coast of Texas and > up the Rio Grande.> > Mike B, you might be able to land and take off there if you worked on it a > little. ;-)> > john h> mkIII - Holder of the first Na uga Award for winning the Nauga Field Short > Landing Contest 2007. > > > _ -======================== ========================> > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:45:23 PM PST US From: BMWBikeCrz@aol.com Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb-List Streamlining strutts I am going to use Streamlined Chrome Molly tubing and make new strutts for the KX any one have an exact scource also what about having an adjustment in one strutt seems I saw a discussion a while back ,,,Dave ************** Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:54:33 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Starhill-Nauga Field Fly Around - July 11th, 12th, 13th David K: And you almost made the first two person takeoff. ;-) john h mkIII From: David Key Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Starhill-Nauga Field Fly Around - July 11th, 12th, 13th I made the first two person landing. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 01:57:01 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb-List Streamlining strutts Dave: If you make them like the old ones, and the old strut length is correct, there is no need for an adjustable strut. Of course, you might decide to do some adjusting, then it would come in handy. However, I have need found a requirement to adjust length of lift struts on Kolbs. john h mkIII I am going to use Streamlined Chrome Molly tubing and make new strutts for the KX any one have an exact scource also what about having an adjustment in one strutt seems I saw a discussion a while back ,,,Dave ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:04:04 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Starhill-Nauga Field Fly Around - July 11th, 12th, 13th From: "John Bickham" Mike B. Thanks so much for your response. It really said a LOT! I really appreciate your response for at least three reasons. First, based on your respose I was successful at getting my point across that Nauga Field requires some level of proficiency in flying Kolbs and short field landings. Second reason is that you recognize that Nauga Field is beyond your skill level at this time. Third reason is I am glad that you have no intention of attending. You would really challenge Starhill hospitality. Just a piece of advice, well intentioned....... If you fly enough hours, eventually you will make a mistake, the weather will screw you, or your equipment will let you down. This field should be within your capabilities for your safety and the safety of any passenger you carry. Have a great day! -------- Thanks too much, John Bickham Mark III-C "Using my Repairman Certificate" St. Francisville, LA Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159121#159121 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 04:47:15 PM PST US From: "Jimmy Young" Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Starhill-Nauga Field Fly Around Starhill-Nauga...looking forward to it, already charting my course. If I can figure out the best way across that Achafalaya River Basin, I'll be there! Jimmy Young FS II ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 04:49:27 PM PST US From: "Richard Girard" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Starhill-Nauga Field Fly Around - July 11th, 12th, 13th John B, You'ze guys, Since the Nauga Field listed in Airnav (LS35) says the field is 1550' X 75' and the threshold is displaced 450' at each end, I'm trying to picture what the difficulty is. Is the displacement for landing only? If it is that leaves 1100' to land and roll out and the whole 1550' available for take off and obstacle (60' trees) clearance. I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes or start a snit fit, but from the description it sounds well within the capabilities of my ability and I think of myself as a pretty conservative pilot. What am I missing? Rick Girard On Jan 18, 2008 5:01 PM, John Bickham wrote: > > Mike B. > > Thanks so much for your response. It really said a LOT! > > I really appreciate your response for at least three reasons. > > First, based on your respose I was successful at getting my point across > that Nauga Field requires some level of proficiency in flying Kolbs and > short field landings. > > Second reason is that you recognize that Nauga Field is beyond your skill > level at this time. > > Third reason is I am glad that you have no intention of attending. You > would really challenge Starhill hospitality. > > > Just a piece of advice, well intentioned....... > > If you fly enough hours, eventually you will make a mistake, the weather > will screw you, or your equipment will let you down. This field should be > within your capabilities for your safety and the safety of any passenger you > carry. > > Have a great day! > > -------- > Thanks too much, > > John Bickham > Mark III-C > "Using my Repairman Certificate" > St. Francisville, LA > > Do Not Archive > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159121#159121 > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 04:57:22 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Starhill-Nauga Field Fly Around - July 11th, 12th, 13th From: "George Alexander" Mike: I drove to John's place last year as a side leg of another trip. You can't imagine how grateful I am that you enlightened me to the fact that I squandered away 400 extra miles, 8 extra hours driving time, about 25 gallons of extra gas and an extra overnight away. Da#@$!!! I must be dumber than a bucket of dirt! On the other hand, what that yielded was most gracious hospitality, delicious food, usual good times with Kolb interested folk and above all, courteous, polite, and delightful people. Probably a good thing you wouldn't go. From the overall tone of your message, not likely to be your kind of people. JetPilot wrote: > > It makes zero sense to try to have an event at such a sub standard field that it keeps many away. > Mike -------- George Alexander http://gtalexander.home.att.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159134#159134 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 05:59:03 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Starhill-Nauga Field Fly Around From: "John Bickham" Jimmy, Having flown that route I would suggest staying north of US 190 once you get to Opelousas (OPL). The further north the better. OPL to HZR (False River Airpark) only leaves a little bit of swamp to cross. -------- Thanks too much, John Bickham Mark III-C "Using my Repairman Certificate" St. Francisville, LA Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159140#159140 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 06:00:38 PM PST US From: "Vic Peters" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb-List Streamlining strutts 4130 strut source univair.com best price I've found so far. For aluninum someone already mentioned Skytech, also best price for extruded . Vic N740VP Maine ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 06:46:04 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Starhill-Nauga Field Fly Around - July 11th, 12th, 13th From: "John Bickham" Rick G, Don't think your missing anything. FS's will eat this field up. It's really a matter of what you are used to and what your skill level is. Beautiful paint jobs and planes loaded with avionics (ie heavy) have a tougher time. I have to admit that the first time I approached Nauga Field from the air, it scared me. I went back to the 2500 foot strip I was at and started practicing. I marked thresholds and tree lines out with flagging tape. It actually was no problem at all. It just was a very different visual picture when you are used to flying out of 2500 and longer runways. I know I'm in the slot when I cross the tree line. That is when I make my go around decision. Not a lot time in the flare to think about it. I got better as a pilot flying into this field. It challenges me. I hadn't really challenged my flying skills that much prior to that. I pretty much suck at landing on paved 5000 foot runways now. It is mostly cause I relax too much and get sloppy. Right now, I'm expanding my crosswind tolerance. Been making some interesting landings at HZR in some stiff crosswinds. I have a lot more to learn about flying my Kolb better. My tires have been screetching more than usual. I look forward to getting together with these Kolb guys because I learn so much. John W said something to me about landing on our last trip that made a light go off. As far as two people go, it has a lot more to do with field condition and density altitude. We'll be 90 plus degrees and 90 plus humidity in July. Wings and props don't work that well in those conditions. Throw in a little afternoon shower to soften the field and slow your roll down and it would make it a challenge with two people. I have taken off and landed with two people in the fall and winter. Won't do it May to October. Many times my landing roll can be stopped at center of the the runway (775 ft) with no brakes. Watch out John H! I haven't typed this much on the list in years! Sorry -------- Thanks too much, John Bickham Mark III-C "Using my Repairman Certificate" St. Francisville, LA Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159144#159144 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 07:05:41 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Starhill-Nauga Field Fly Around - July 11th, 12th, 13th > Many times my landing roll can be stopped at center of the the runway (775 ft) with no brakes. Watch out John H! > > John Bickham John B: Looks like you musta been landing with a tailwind. Try it the other way round and you may be able to land a little shorter. ;-) john h mkIII ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 07:19:31 PM PST US From: "Richard Girard" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Starhill-Nauga Field Fly Around - July 11th, 12th, 13th John, Thanks for the info, sounds like fun. And Spencer, wherever you are, thank you for all the good training and not griping at me too much when I practiced slips all the way to the deck. Rick On Jan 18, 2008 8:43 PM, John Bickham wrote: > > Rick G, > > Don't think your missing anything. FS's will eat this field up. It's > really a matter of what you are used to and what your skill level is. > > Beautiful paint jobs and planes loaded with avionics (ie heavy) have a > tougher time. > > I have to admit that the first time I approached Nauga Field from the air, > it scared me. I went back to the 2500 foot strip I was at and started > practicing. I marked thresholds and tree lines out with flagging tape. It > actually was no problem at all. It just was a very different visual picture > when you are used to flying out of 2500 and longer runways. > > I know I'm in the slot when I cross the tree line. That is when I make my > go around decision. Not a lot time in the flare to think about it. > > I got better as a pilot flying into this field. It challenges me. I > hadn't really challenged my flying skills that much prior to that. I pretty > much suck at landing on paved 5000 foot runways now. It is mostly cause I > relax too much and get sloppy. > > Right now, I'm expanding my crosswind tolerance. Been making some > interesting landings at HZR in some stiff crosswinds. I have a lot more to > learn about flying my Kolb better. My tires have been screetching more than > usual. > > I look forward to getting together with these Kolb guys because I learn so > much. John W said something to me about landing on our last trip that made > a light go off. > > As far as two people go, it has a lot more to do with field condition and > density altitude. We'll be 90 plus degrees and 90 plus humidity in July. > Wings and props don't work that well in those conditions. Throw in a > little afternoon shower to soften the field and slow your roll down and it > would make it a challenge with two people. I have taken off and landed with > two people in the fall and winter. Won't do it May to October. > > Many times my landing roll can be stopped at center of the the runway (775 > ft) with no brakes. Watch out John H! > > I haven't typed this much on the list in years! Sorry > > -------- > Thanks too much, > > John Bickham > Mark III-C > "Using my Repairman Certificate" > St. Francisville, LA > > Do Not Archive > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159144#159144 > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 07:51:38 PM PST US From: "Larry Cottrell" Subject: Kolb-List: Holes in the sky Gang, It was just too nice to work around the place today. I kept trying, but I caught myself at least three times looking outside at the windsock and the sunshine. I finally gave up and got into my winter flying suit, wrapped my "wild rag" (Buckaroo silk scarf) around my throat and fired her up. The temp was 39 degrees with a one mile per hour wind. I cut off cross country for the Owyhee Canyon, skimming the ground at about 100 feet only deviating enough to harass ( that would be Look closely) Coyotes, Antelope and Deer. I almost forgot a flock of Geese that I scared the crap out of, literally. I also checked the Canyon for access points for spring fishing. The thread about landings and tight airports are a bit curious to me. I have the VG's on my Firestar and I am able to meet or exceed the factory take off and landings of 200 and 300 feet. I am also at 4000 feet elevation. Roger in his KXP , with no VG's can most likely land a lot shorter than I can. That is just skill, I am getting better though. After arriving back at the house and the 2600 ft dirt strip, I got to thinking about dead stick landings and how much altitude it took at dead stick to turn around and get back on the strip. I first tried it with the engine at idle. I got 600 feet above the runway flying down the center line and cut the engine. It took me less than 100 feet to complete my 360. Then I lined up again down the middle of the strip at 600 feet. I waited until the plane was past the end of the runway before cutting the engine off. I then stabilized my glide to 50 MPH before starting my turn. At the completion of my 360 I had still only lost about 80 feet, and was still way too high to land, so I restarted and set it up again. Thinking that I had somehow forgotten my beginning altitude I did it again. This time I decided that I was going to dead stick it all the way to the ground. My last was probably in 2000 at the Alvord. ( 6x11 miles) I repeated the setup again only this time at 500 feet and about 100 feet to the right of the strip. When I could see the strip behind my strut, I cut the engine, established my glide rate at 50 and brought her around at probably 30 degrees of roll. When I was straight, I was 420 feet over the end of the runway. I brought the speed down to 40 MPH and I was still going to overshoot the runway and land in my driveway, so I put it into as radical a slip as I could and kept the speed at 50 MPH. I released the slip around 125 feet above the ground and got it on 50 and landed just as nice as could be. I am sure that some of the reduced height needed was due to the cold air, I am sure that the VG's helped as well. I will repeat the experiment when the warm weather returns. I am not the best "Bush Pilot" in this neck of the sage, :-) but I find very little problem with landing on these two track roads and out of the way areas at all. If you only operate your Kolb as a GA plane off of paved strips and large airports your are missing the best part of Homer's design. It is true that the margin for error is increased with bush flying, but airport flying makes you sloppy. Larry C do not archive ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 08:27:54 PM PST US From: "Wayne Boyter" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Holes in the sky Larry Be careful with the dead stick landings, one of these times you are coming in to high the engine will not start. Ask me how I know. I will never do a dead stick landing with the engine OFF again. Good luck have fun be safe. Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: Larry Cottrell To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 7:48 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Holes in the sky Gang, It was just too nice to work around the place today. I kept trying, but I caught myself at least three times looking outside at the windsock and the sunshine. I finally gave up and got into my winter flying suit, wrapped my "wild rag" (Buckaroo silk scarf) around my throat and fired her up. The temp was 39 degrees with a one mile per hour wind. I cut off cross country for the Owyhee Canyon, skimming the ground at about 100 feet only deviating enough to harass ( that would be Look closely) Coyotes, Antelope and Deer. I almost forgot a flock of Geese that I scared the crap out of, literally. I also checked the Canyon for access points for spring fishing. The thread about landings and tight airports are a bit curious to me. I have the VG's on my Firestar and I am able to meet or exceed the factory take off and landings of 200 and 300 feet. I am also at 4000 feet elevation. Roger in his KXP , with no VG's can most likely land a lot shorter than I can. That is just skill, I am getting better though. After arriving back at the house and the 2600 ft dirt strip, I got to thinking about dead stick landings and how much altitude it took at dead stick to turn around and get back on the strip. I first tried it with the engine at idle. I got 600 feet above the runway flying down the center line and cut the engine. It took me less than 100 feet to complete my 360. Then I lined up again down the middle of the strip at 600 feet. I waited until the plane was past the end of the runway before cutting the engine off. I then stabilized my glide to 50 MPH before starting my turn. At the completion of my 360 I had still only lost about 80 feet, and was still way too high to land, so I restarted and set it up again. Thinking that I had somehow forgotten my beginning altitude I did it again. This time I decided that I was going to dead stick it all the way to the ground. My last was probably in 2000 at the Alvord. ( 6x11 miles) I repeated the setup again only this time at 500 feet and about 100 feet to the right of the strip. When I could see the strip behind my strut, I cut the engine, established my glide rate at 50 and brought her around at probably 30 degrees of roll. When I was straight, I was 420 feet over the end of the runway. I brought the speed down to 40 MPH and I was still going to overshoot the runway and land in my driveway, so I put it into as radical a slip as I could and kept the speed at 50 MPH. I released the slip around 125 feet above the ground and got it on 50 and landed just as nice as could be. I am sure that some of the reduced height needed was due to the cold air, I am sure that the VG's helped as well. I will repeat the experiment when the warm weather returns. I am not the best "Bush Pilot" in this neck of the sage, :-) but I find very little problem with landing on these two track roads and out of the way areas at all. If you only operate your Kolb as a GA plane off of paved strips and large airports your are missing the best part of Homer's design. It is true that the margin for error is increased with bush flying, but airport flying makes you sloppy. Larry C do not archive ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 08:49:49 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Holes in the sky Wayne: Wish I could say that. Larry has a good place to practice dead stick landings, 2,600 feet of gravel with some over run. Bet way I know to be prepared when the engine stops unintentionally. I'd rather take a chance on tearing up the airplane practicing than to do it during an actual engine out and not be familiar with how the airplane flies with the prop stopped. john h mkIII - Who does not do nearly enough actual dead stick landings. I will never do a dead stick landing with the engine OFF again. Good luck have fun be safe. Wayne ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 09:06:33 PM PST US From: "Robert Laird" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Starhill-Nauga Field Fly Around Jimmy -- Take a look at my story and map of my trip from Florida to Houston (http://www.texas-flyer.com/ferry)... I flew from False River to Southland (near Lake Charles). That route takes you over land the whole way, and you don't have to worry about the swamp. Just do it in reverse. Maybe I'll join you on the trip! :-) -- Robert On Jan 18, 2008 6:43 PM, Jimmy Young wrote: > > > Starhill-Nauga...looking forward to it, already charting my course. If I can > figure out the best way across that Achafalaya River Basin, I'll be there! > > Jimmy Young > FS II ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.