Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:14 AM - Re: Streamlining struts (R. Hankins)
2. 05:31 AM - Re: Re: Starhill-Nauga Field Fly Around - July 11th, 12th, 13th (possums)
3. 06:02 AM - Re: Re: Starhill-Nauga Field Fly Around - July 11th, 12th, 13th (John Hauck)
4. 06:43 AM - Re: Holes in the sky (Eugene Zimmerman)
5. 07:48 AM - And speaking of VG's (Richard Girard)
6. 08:08 AM - Re: And speaking of VG's (John Hauck)
7. 08:41 AM - Re: And speaking of VG's (Richard Girard)
8. 08:59 AM - Re: And speaking of VG's (John Hauck)
9. 09:01 AM - Re: Holes in the sky (lucien)
10. 09:15 AM - Re: Re: Holes in the sky (John Hauck)
11. 09:41 AM - Re: Re: Holes in the sky (Mike Welch)
12. 10:03 AM - Re: Holes in the sky (LEE CREECH)
13. 10:23 AM - Re: And speaking of VG's (Larry Cottrell)
14. 10:24 AM - Re: Re: Holes in the sky (Richard Girard)
15. 10:45 AM - Re: Re: Holes in the sky (Larry Cottrell)
16. 10:56 AM - Re: Holes in the sky (lucien)
17. 11:20 AM - Re: Re: Holes in the sky (John Hauck)
18. 01:05 PM - Re: Re: Holes in the sky (Richard Pike)
19. 02:05 PM - Re: Re: Holes in the sky (John Hauck)
20. 02:47 PM - Re: Re: Holes in the sky (chris davis)
21. 03:22 PM - Re: Re: Holes in the sky (robert bean)
22. 03:35 PM - Re: Re: Holes in the sky (John Hauck)
23. 03:42 PM - Dead Stick Approaches ( Holes in the sky) (The Kuffels)
24. 03:44 PM - Re: Streamlining struts (planecrazzzy)
25. 04:42 PM - Re: Dead Stick Approaches ( Holes in the sky) (Larry Cottrell)
26. 07:17 PM - Re: Re: Starhill-Nauga Field Fly Around - July 11th, 12th, 13th (ElleryWeld@aol.com)
27. 07:19 PM - Re: Re: Holes in the sky (Richard Pike)
28. 07:24 PM - Re: Holes in the sky (lucien)
29. 08:04 PM - Excellent procedure (David Herron)
30. 10:05 PM - Re: Re: Starhill-Nauga Field Fly Around - July 11th, 12th, 13th (Richard Girard)
31. 10:06 PM - Re: Re: Holes in the sky (Richard Girard)
32. 10:10 PM - Re: Dead Stick Approaches ( Holes in the sky) (Richard Girard)
33. 10:59 PM - Re: Holes in the sky (JetPilot)
34. 11:26 PM - Re: Streamlining struts (JetPilot)
35. 11:29 PM - Re: Starhill-Nauga Field Fly Around - July 11th, 12th, 13th (JetPilot)
36. 11:55 PM - Re: Starhill-Nauga Field Fly Around - July 11th, 12th, 13th (JetPilot)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Streamlining struts |
Thom,
That agrees with what I came up with using a piece of newspaper, some scotch tape
and a one inch tube. I left my copy of "Aerodynamics for Engineers" on the
shelf, along with my Mark's handbook for Mechanical Engineers. Sometimes a 20-20
eyeball will get you close enough. I assumed that rick had substituted circumference
for diameter and tried a six inch wrap, but it looked too short.
I then cut one so that it "looked" about right and came out with 8 1/2 inches.
I would like to try applying streamlining to all of my exposed tubing this spring
sometime and report the results to the list. I don't expect a huge difference,
but I should see some. I'll do the same thing with VG's one of these days.
Hoping for sunshine.......
--------
Roger in Oregon
1992 KXP 503 - N1782C
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159176#159176
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Starhill-Nauga Field Fly Around - July 11th, 12th, |
13th
At 02:54 PM 1/18/2008, you wrote:
>
> > Why host a fly in at a strip that is so short and dangerous, a
> place where many people cant land ?
>
>Mike B:
>
>Nauga Field keeps out the riff raff, and those that can not Kolbs.
>
>Some of us had a ball last year at the first annual Nauga Field
>flyin at Star Hill, LA.
>
>
>john h
>mkIII - Holder of the first Nauga Award for winning the Nauga Field
>Short Landing Contest 2007.
------------------------------------------------------
Doesn't look any worse than the little strip we fly out of.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8022448200127542755&hl=en
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Starhill-Nauga Field Fly Around - July 11th, 12th, |
13th
> Doesn't look any worse than the little strip we fly out of.
>
> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8022448200127542755&hl=en
Possum:
Nauga Field is twice as long as Gantt International Airport, 750 feet, 410
feet ASL. Been flying out of it for 24 years. Was a whopping 600 feet,
unimproved, for the first couple years flying the Ultrastar and Firestar.
I guess our little airstrips are intimidating when one is accustomed to
flying airborne taxi cabs off hard strips.
Reminds me of Crazy Ed out of Brooklyn, NY. He landed on a derelict barge
in NY Harbor. Or Possum landing on a sand bar next to a wrecked tug boat.
john h
mkIII - Waiting for the winter storm to start at hauck's holler, alabama.
Calling for lots of snow. So far 34F and rain.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Holes in the sky |
On Jan 18, 2008, at 10:48 PM, Larry Cottrell wrote:
> about 100 feet only deviating enough to harass ( that would be Look
> closely) Coyotes, Antelope and Deer.
Look closely ?? Where is the pict?
Message 5
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| Subject: | And speaking of VG's |
One of my contributors to EAA Chapter 88's newsletter is a retired
Beechcraft engineer. His article for the January issue was on vortex
generators. Anyone who wishes to read it can drop me a post and I'll send
along a pdf of the Beacon. If you have a phone modem, be sure and tell me
and I'll send it at a convenient time for you as it's about 1.5 megs.
Rick
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: And speaking of VG's |
Rick G:
How about going to your EAA Chapter 88 web site, click on Beacon
newsletter, then scroll down to pg 5? ;-)
http://www.eaa88.org/beacon.pdf
A lot easier than fax'ing.
john h
mkIII - Lazy in the Heart of Dixie, watching the snow flakes fall.
One of my contributors to EAA Chapter 88's newsletter is a retired
Beechcraft engineer. His article for the January issue was on vortex
generators.
Rick
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: And speaking of VG's |
John, The old webmaster used to keep the newsletters in the members only
area. I didn't know the new guy had changed the policy.
Rick
the Chapter 88 mushroom :-) and newsletter editor
On Jan 19, 2008 10:05 AM, John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
> Rick G:
>
> How about going to your EAA Chapter 88 web site, click on Beacon
> newsletter, then scroll down to pg 5? ;-)
>
> http://www.eaa88.org/beacon.pdf
>
> A lot easier than fax'ing.
>
> john h
> mkIII - Lazy in the Heart of Dixie, watching the snow flakes fall.
>
>
> One of my contributors to EAA Chapter 88's newsletter is a retired
> Beechcraft engineer. His article for the January issue was on vortex
> generators.
>
> Rick
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: And speaking of VG's |
Hey Gang:
Check out the photo on Rick's EAA Chapter 88 Newsletter, page 8:
http://www.eaa88.org/beacon.pdf
A trio of homebuilts execute a loose version of the starburst
Might be loose to Rick, but not to the participants. ;-)
I think Karen Cottrell or Larry took that photo at the Alvord Desert get
together May 2005, the year we all camped out on the dry lake.
Brings back many fond memories of our adventures.
john h
mkIII
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Holes in the sky |
[quote="boyter(at)mcsi.net"]Larry
Be careful with the dead stick landings, one of these times you are coming in
to high the engine will not start. Ask me how I know. I will never do a dead
stick landing with the engine OFF again. Good luck have fun be safe.
Wayne
> ---
For what it's worth, at least with the 2-stroke motors, this was one of the nicest
things about using the C box with the clutch. You could practice actual deadsticks
but with the engine still idling.
Pulling back the throttle to idle disengages the clutch, which gives you exactly
the situation of an engine out, minus only the total silence....
I did this a bunch with my FS II and it was really good practice.
Havn't shut off the motor in the titan yet and he's got the 912uls on it... So
for accurate simulations, I'll have to shut it down..... No good place found yet
to practice it, but this is a good reminder that I oughta at some point...
LS
--------
LS
FS II
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159228#159228
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Holes in the sky |
> Pulling back the throttle to idle disengages the clutch, which gives you
> exactly the situation of an engine out, minus only the total silence....
>
> LS
Lucien:
I don't know much about clutches on C Gearboxes.
Doesn't the prop windmill if the throttle is pulled back to idle?
If it does, then you will be experiencing something similar to autorotation
which produces a lot of drag.
My experience indicates dead stick glide performance is a lot different than
gliding with an idling prop. An idling prop is like sticking a big disc in
the windstream as opposed to a dead stick which presents only the profile of
the prop blades.
For your particular FS with gear box clutch, if that is the way you practice
your dead stick landings, then that is what you will experience if you lose
the engine.
On the other hand, the pilot that practices emergency landings at idle will
be surprised when he does experience an actual dead stick. The Kolb will
glide much better than he anticipates because of reduced drag.
john h
mkIII
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Holes in the sky |
> On the other hand, the pilot that practices emergency landings at idle will
> be surprised when he does experience an actual dead stick. The Kolb will
> glide much better than he anticipates because of reduced drag.
>
> john h
> mkIII
John,
All good points to be aware of!! I guess that's the point. If you're airplane
has a windmilling prop and produces certain tendencies, a person would want
to be aware of those tendencies BEFORE an actual emergency. Equally important
is the guy that has a solidly mounted prop, that is practically motionless.
He definitely would want to know how his plane will reacts once everything goes
silent.
Practicing power off, or power reduced landings should be an essential part of
a prudent pilot! If (or when) I ever face a dead stick landing, I darn sure
don't want it to be the first time I ever did one.
Actually, now that I think of it, years ago, when I was training in a Flightstar,
the instructor turned OFF the engine...and said.."it's all your's, land it!!"
Did a mighty fine job, if I say so myself. Being proficient at dead stick
landings can be nothing but a good thing!!
Mike Welch MkIII
Do Not Archive
_________________________________________________________________
Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail-get your "fix".
http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx
Message 12
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| Subject: | RE: Holes in the sky |
> > My experience indicates dead stick glide performance is a lot different
than > gliding with an idling prop. An idling prop is like sticking a big
disc in > the windstream as opposed to a dead stick which presents only the
profile of > the prop blades.> > > john h> mkIII> >
By "idling", do you mean freewheeling, disengaged from the engine? If you
just mean pulling the power back to idle, I've seen it argued that that con
figuration still produces some thrust, resulting in somewhat better glide p
erformance than with a stopped prop. I don't claim to know.
If we listed these three configurations in order of best-to-worst glide per
formance, would it be: (1) Power reduced to idle; (2) Stopped prop; (3) Fre
ewheeling (disengaged) prop?
Lee
Firestar II
_________________________________________________________________
Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail=AE-get yo
ur "fix".
http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: And speaking of VG's |
A trio of homebuilts execute a loose version of the starburst
Might be loose to Rick, but not to the participants. ;-)
I think Karen Cottrell or Larry took that photo at the Alvord Desert
get together May 2005, the year we all camped out on the dry lake.
Brings back many fond memories of our adventures.
john h
mkIII
________________________________________________________________________
Rick, I sent you a email asking for the article, but then took John's
advise and went to the page directly. so disregard the original request.
The problem with the VG's is of course the placement, but even with a
blind placement such as I have done, the reduction in stall speed is
remarkable. I was wondering if perhaps a leaf blower could be used as a
makeshift wind tunnel to determine the best placement for a Kolb wing by
using tufts. Since sage doesn't have any leaves to blow, I do not own
one. I should think that someone should be able to angle the blower on
the wing to duplicate the angle of stall and move some VG's to the point
that the air reattaches. One set up should be viable for all Kolb wings,
or at least most.
Oh, the picture of the "starburst" was taken by my wife, Karen at the
Alvord. She thinks that you should give her credit for it. The next
newsletter, with a link so that she could actually verify that you did
give her credit would most likely keep her from hunting you down. :-)
By the way it was a good newsletter, I've done a few myself and know how
tough it is to get something to fill the space.
Larry C
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Holes in the sky |
John, and you'ze guys, I had the Rice King clutch in my C box. Pull the
power and you have the glide ratio of the space shuttle. You couldn't pay me
enough to have a clutch in my drive system again. Might as well install a
drogue chute.
When I got home from Sun n Fun, I pulled it out and traded it to the owner
of Wallaby Ranch for flying time when I'm at Sun n Fun this year.
The Wallaby Ranch uses them in their Moyes' Dragonfly tugs so they can point
the nose at the ground after they release a glider and have no danger of
going over VNE. It's an amazing thing to watch from above. Must have been
what pilots flying cover for the Stuka's saw.
Rick
On Jan 19, 2008 11:38 AM, Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> > On the other hand, the pilot that practices emergency landings at idle
> will
> > be surprised when he does experience an actual dead stick. The Kolb will
> > glide much better than he anticipates because of reduced drag.
> >
> > john h
> > mkIII
>
>
> John,
>
> All good points to be aware of!! I guess that's the point. If you're
> airplane has a windmilling prop and produces certain tendencies, a person
> would want to be aware of those tendencies BEFORE an actual emergency.
> Equally important is the guy that has a solidly mounted prop, that is
> practically motionless. He definitely would want to know how his plane will
> reacts once everything goes silent.
>
> Practicing power off, or power reduced landings should be an essential
> part of a prudent pilot! If (or when) I ever face a dead stick landing, I
> darn sure don't want it to be the first time I ever did one.
>
> Actually, now that I think of it, years ago, when I was training in a
> Flightstar, the instructor turned OFF the engine...and said.."it's all
> your's, land it!!" Did a mighty fine job, if I say so myself. Being
> proficient at dead stick landings can be nothing but a good thing!!
>
> Mike Welch MkIII
>
> Do Not Archive
> _________________________________________________________________
> Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail(R)-get
> your "fix".
> http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Holes in the sky |
----- Original Message -----
From: LEE CREECH >
> My experience indicates dead stick glide performance is a lot
different than
> gliding with an idling prop. An idling prop is like sticking a big
disc in
> the windstream as opposed to a dead stick which presents only the
profile of
> the prop blades.>
> john h
> mkIII>
By "idling", do you mean freewheeling, disengaged from the engine? If
you just mean pulling the power back to idle, I've seen it argued that
that configuration still produces some thrust, resulting in somewhat
better glide performance than with a stopped prop. I don't claim to
know.
If we listed these three configurations in order of best-to-worst
glide performance, would it be: (1) Power reduced to idle; (2) Stopped
prop; (3) Freewheeling (disengaged) prop?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------
I know that this was originally addressed to John, but I wanted to add
an important part to the dead stick landing problems that those who have
never done it do not realize. That is the tendency to revert back to the
type of landings that you make every time you get into your plane.
Believe me in times of stress you will go into auto pilot mode. There
isn't a much more stressfull situation than having to do your first dead
stick when there isn't a good place to do it, or you are not prepared.
You are used to being able to apply just a bit more gas to correct a
slow flght condition, only at dead stick there is no more gas. If you
flare too soon, you are going to drop. The tendency is to keep pulling
back on the stick. It has always worked before and you will blindly
revert to muscle memory. The tendency to do so is very hard to ignore,
unless you practice. What I have found to work for me is to establish
best glide speed. For me 50 mph, to establish the point that I want to
land. When I get to about 50 feet I drop the nose to pick up as much
more airspeed as I can. Just a bit more air speed will help, since once
you pull back to flare your flying time is very limited. If you have
never done a dead stick, then you are going to have to learn as you go.
If you have done enough to understand what is needed to minimize damage
to yourself and hopefully your plane, then it is much easier to stick to
the plan that will allow you to do so.
Larry C
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Holes in the sky |
[quote="John Hauck"]
>
> Lucien:
>
> I don't know much about clutches on C Gearboxes.
>
> Doesn't the prop windmill if the throttle is pulled back to idle?
>
> If it does, then you will be experiencing something similar to autorotation
> which produces a lot of drag.
>
>
Yes, the prop does windmill as it's completely disengaged from the engine (at the
drive pinion anyway).
The drag generated, judging by the glide ratio I had vs. planes with fixed props
when stopped, was considerable.
The drag, tho, wasn't necessarily a bad thing. It did reduce the overall glide
ratio but, on the other hand, was very useful as a poor-man's drag brake which
could be very useful on an approach that was a bit too high.
When practicing deadstick, you have to learn the power-off glide ratio all the
same with the drag so the end result isn't any different. You just have to keep
the intended landing spots closer than you otherwise would...
>
>
> My experience indicates dead stick glide performance is a lot different than
> gliding with an idling prop. An idling prop is like sticking a big disc in
> the windstream as opposed to a dead stick which presents only the profile of
> the prop blades.
>
> For your particular FS with gear box clutch, if that is the way you practice
> your dead stick landings, then that is what you will experience if you lose
> the engine.
>
> On the other hand, the pilot that practices emergency landings at idle will
> be surprised when he does experience an actual dead stick. The Kolb will
> glide much better than he anticipates because of reduced drag.
>
> john h
> mkIII
Exactly my experience too....
But like I said, the clutch allowed an exact simulation of engine-off conditions
just by pulling back to idle, whereas with the prop engaged fulltime, you have
to actually turn the motor off for an exact simulation.
Well worth the 500 bucks for the clutch on that alone, not to mention all the other
advantages it gave....
Wish I had one on my 912....
LS
--------
LS
FS II
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159253#159253
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Holes in the sky |
>
> Wish I had one on my 912....
>
> LS
Lucien:
I feel the clutch takes away a very important factor in emergency power off
landings, glide. There are a lot of ways to reduce glide, but can not name
any to stretch it.
john h
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Holes in the sky |
I can think of one... (snicker)
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
John Hauck wrote:
> <snip>
>
> Lucien:
>
> I feel the clutch takes away a very important factor in emergency
> power off landings, glide. There are a lot of ways to reduce glide,
> but can not name any to stretch it.
>
> john h
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Holes in the sky |
Rev:
Perhaps you will share that with us. Might come in handy if I ever have to
stretch my glide.
john h
mkIII
> I can think of one... (snicker)
>
> Richard Pike
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Holes in the sky |
John Ive had to stretch my glide a few times ! Hey Donnie at TNK called me yesterday
and said my Firefly kit is ready and it should be delivered MONDAY !! now
if I can get my workbenches and a table set up in time as Ive only been in
Florida for two days and its been a short two days ,but at any rate I'll get a
month or two to work on it as I have to go back up north the first week of march
this year as my daughter is having a baby that week and my sweet wife wants
to be there for that , as do I . Chris
----- Original Message ----
From: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 5:01:14 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Holes in the sky
Rev:
Perhaps you will share that with us. Might come in handy if I ever have to
stretch my glide.
john h
mkIII
> I can think of one... (snicker)
>
> Richard Pike
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Holes in the sky |
Could it be that Richard is baiting us?????
options:
kick out passenger
jato bottle
lift up on seat cushion
restart engine
-I'll skip any spiritual concepts :)
BB
do not archive
On 19, Jan 2008, at 3:55 PM, Richard Pike wrote:
>
> I can think of one... (snicker)
>
> Richard Pike
> MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
>
> John Hauck wrote:
>> <snip>
>>
>> Lucien:
>>
>> I feel the clutch takes away a very important factor in emergency
>> power off landings, glide. There are a lot of ways to reduce
>> glide, but can not name any to stretch it.
>>
>> john h
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Holes in the sky |
>
> options:
> kick out passenger
> jato bottle
> lift up on seat cushion
> restart engine
> -I'll skip any spiritual concepts :)
> BB
Bob B:
Guess you could lift up on the stick grip, and/or flap your arms out each
door, and/or pray..............
I don't know. When airspeed is less than flying speed, one would need
something spiritual to keep them flying.
john h
mkIII
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| Subject: | Dead Stick Approaches ( Holes in the sky) |
Larry,
A different approach path than the official FAA approved method
might work better for you.
Instead of circles off the end of the runway, set yourself up
perpendicular to the runway about the distance you fly your base
leg. Fly away from the centerline and start a series of 180
degree turns. Always make your turns on the side toward the
runway. On the crossleg, aim slightly away from or toward the
runway if needed to maintain your distance. When you judge the
altitude is correct, turn 90 degrees to final.
This method has the advantages of twice as many opportunities to
be at a good approach altitude, a longer time to decide this is
the leg to turn final and never turning your back to the runway.
Very few of my fellow CFIs teach this method but every one I've
shown it to has adopted it. Try it and let us know what you think.
Tom Kuffel
Whitefish, MT
Building Original FireStar
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Streamlining struts |
I made these Stream line sleeves....
I found a 18" piece of alum cheap....
Sheared it in half....
"Rolled" each 9" piece....24" Radius ???
Used a Break to bend them in the middle ( Knife blade )
Welded the seam....
Tight fit over my Lift struts....
Used 3 bolts on top ( Other bolts are 90 degrees )
They stopped my Lift Struts from vibrating in flight....
Gotta Fly...
Mike & "Jaz" in MN
.
.
.
.
--------
.
.
.
.
.
Do Not Archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159282#159282
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/hpim0108_138.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/fish_scales__lift_struts_012_492.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/firestar_camera_mount__ram__003_589.jpg
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Dead Stick Approaches ( Holes in the sky) |
Tom,
Thanks I will, however what I was attempting to duplicate is a engine
failure on take off. You know the routine, stay over the runway until you
have enough altitude to return. Any way, the education that I was attempting
was not skill, more like how much air did I lose with a 360. The dead stick
was the result of increased confidence in my planes handling since
tightening the elevator cables. Or cockiness which ever you prefer.
Larry C
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "The Kuffels" <kuffel@cyberport.net>
Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 4:38 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Dead Stick Approaches ( Holes in the sky)
>
> Larry,
>
> A different approach path than the official FAA approved method might work
> better for you.
>
> Instead of circles off the end of the runway, set yourself up
> perpendicular to the runway about the distance you fly your base leg. Fly
> away from the centerline and start a series of 180 degree turns. Always
> make your turns on the side toward the runway. On the crossleg, aim
> slightly away from or toward the runway if needed to maintain your
> distance. When you judge the altitude is correct, turn 90 degrees to
> final.
>
> This method has the advantages of twice as many opportunities to be at a
> good approach altitude, a longer time to decide this is the leg to turn
> final and never turning your back to the runway.
>
> Very few of my fellow CFIs teach this method but every one I've shown it
> to has adopted it. Try it and let us know what you think.
>
> Tom Kuffel
> Whitefish, MT
> Building Original FireStar
>
>
> --
> 269.19.7/1233 - Release Date: 1/19/2008 6:37 PM
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Starhill-Nauga Field Fly Around - July 11th, 12th, |
13th
I wish I was closer I would ask you if it would be OK to land across the
runway instead of the long way in
Ellery in Maine
do not archive
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Holes in the sky |
I was thinking more along the lines of a simple device to reduce both
airspeed and flying speed at the lower end of the gliding airspeed
spectrum.
Too bad that such a thing apparently does not exist...
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
John Hauck wrote:
> <snip>
>
> I don't know. When airspeed is less than flying speed, one would need
> something spiritual to keep them flying.
>
> john h
> mkIII
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Holes in the sky |
John Hauck wrote:
> >
>
> > Wish I had one on my 912....
> >
> > LS
> >
> >
>
>
> Lucien:
>
> I feel the clutch takes away a very important factor in emergency power off
> landings, glide. There are a lot of ways to reduce glide, but can not name
> any to stretch it.
>
> john h
Again, one has to Ask The Man Who Flies One for the real skinny on such things,
especially with the RK-400 clutch since they're not too widely used. Shame, because
they solve so many more problems than they introduce.
At any rate, being one who actually flew the clutch and for a considerable amount
of time, I don't agree that it's a safety problem for two reasons:
- the reduction in glide, while noticeable, isn't that bad. My (now Bob's) FS II
did not glide like a brick compared to a friend of mine's FS II that had the
fixed 2-blade prop. In fact, I've flown other planes with far worse glide ratios
that didn't have a clutch and they were no less safe engine-off than my FS
II was.
- because you can simulate the exact conditions of an engine-off landing by simply
pulling back to idle, you DON'T actually have to shut off the motor. Thus,
practicing them is much safer and less nerve wracking. So, you're a lot more
inclined to do the practice, even in places and in conditions you otherwise wouldn't,
such as at a busy or towered airport (simply ask for the option and you're
ready to rock and roll).
You have to learn how to glide your particular plane in to a safe landing deadstick
anyway the way it's configured. You're far more likely to do the practice
under safe conditions like a warm, idling engine in case you really do screw
up an approach.....
LS
--------
LS
FS II
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159313#159313
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| Subject: | Excellent procedure |
Tom,
I had a CFI demonstrate and teach that method to me for forced
approaches, it sure makes the event a little more comfortable.
Its not the standard approach here or in the Transport Canada manual,
but its in my routine for sure.
Thanks for putting this in the list.
drh
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| Subject: | Re: Starhill-Nauga Field Fly Around - July 11th, 12th, |
13th
Ellery, You didn't shorten your name from Weldski, did you? :-)
Rick
On Jan 19, 2008 9:14 PM, <ElleryWeld@aol.com> wrote:
> *I wish I was closer I would ask you if it would be OK to land across
> the runway instead of the long way in *
> **
> *Ellery in Maine*
> **
> *do not archive*
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape<http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489>in the new year.
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Holes in the sky |
Lucien, I flew with the rice king for almost a year and absolutely hated
what it did to the glide of the Kolb. They should be used for what they were
made, pushing an airboat through a rice paddy. MHO
Rick
On Jan 19, 2008 9:22 PM, lucien <lstavenhagen@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> John Hauck wrote:
> > >
> >
> > > Wish I had one on my 912....
> > >
> > > LS
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > Lucien:
> >
> > I feel the clutch takes away a very important factor in emergency power
> off
> > landings, glide. There are a lot of ways to reduce glide, but can not
> name
> > any to stretch it.
> >
> > john h
>
>
> Again, one has to Ask The Man Who Flies One for the real skinny on such
> things, especially with the RK-400 clutch since they're not too widely used.
> Shame, because they solve so many more problems than they introduce.
>
> At any rate, being one who actually flew the clutch and for a considerable
> amount of time, I don't agree that it's a safety problem for two reasons:
>
> - the reduction in glide, while noticeable, isn't that bad. My (now Bob's)
> FS II did not glide like a brick compared to a friend of mine's FS II that
> had the fixed 2-blade prop. In fact, I've flown other planes with far worse
> glide ratios that didn't have a clutch and they were no less safe engine-off
> than my FS II was.
>
> - because you can simulate the exact conditions of an engine-off landing
> by simply pulling back to idle, you DON'T actually have to shut off the
> motor. Thus, practicing them is much safer and less nerve wracking. So,
> you're a lot more inclined to do the practice, even in places and in
> conditions you otherwise wouldn't, such as at a busy or towered airport
> (simply ask for the option and you're ready to rock and roll).
> You have to learn how to glide your particular plane in to a safe landing
> deadstick anyway the way it's configured. You're far more likely to do the
> practice under safe conditions like a warm, idling engine in case you really
> do screw up an approach.....
>
> LS
>
> --------
> LS
> FS II
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159313#159313
>
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Dead Stick Approaches ( Holes in the sky) |
Larry for what it's worth, I've flown hundreds of dead stick approaches with
this method. Well, okay, there was no stick, and no engine either for that
matter, but I never failed to make the field. The only thing I would add is
that if there is any crosswind, stay on the upwind side of the runway.
Rick
On Jan 19, 2008 5:38 PM, The Kuffels <kuffel@cyberport.net> wrote:
>
> Larry,
>
> A different approach path than the official FAA approved method
> might work better for you.
>
> Instead of circles off the end of the runway, set yourself up
> perpendicular to the runway about the distance you fly your base
> leg. Fly away from the centerline and start a series of 180
> degree turns. Always make your turns on the side toward the
> runway. On the crossleg, aim slightly away from or toward the
> runway if needed to maintain your distance. When you judge the
> altitude is correct, turn 90 degrees to final.
>
> This method has the advantages of twice as many opportunities to
> be at a good approach altitude, a longer time to decide this is
> the leg to turn final and never turning your back to the runway.
>
> Very few of my fellow CFIs teach this method but every one I've
> shown it to has adopted it. Try it and let us know what you think.
>
> Tom Kuffel
> Whitefish, MT
> Building Original FireStar
>
>
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Holes in the sky |
[quote="lcottrell"]Gang,
It took me less than 100 feet to complete my 360. Larry C
do not archive
> [b]
That is incredible. Is anyone else getting glides like this out of their Kolbs
?
I had been practicing forced landings, and minimum descents rates by pulling my
power back to Idle.. I figured the Kolb might glide a bit better without the
prop windmilling, so a couple weeks ago I got over an airport with two 6000 foot
runways and shut the engine down. I was not ready for how much WORSE the
glide was without the engine idling. It appears the 912 puts out a lot of thrust
even at a 1900 RPM idle. Anyways, my altitude at best glide to do a 180
was 500 feet, at a 25 degree bank with my wife and I on board. I have tried
this a bunch of times, from high altitudes, with same results. About 500 feet
for a 180, and about 1000 feet for a complete 360 at a little less than 30 degree
bank and 50 MPH.
I have to agree with John Hauck, everyone should learn to approach and land with
the engine shut off. If you are afraid of having an accident like Wayne did,
go to an airport with runways big enough that you cannot possibly miss it.
Bottom line, engines do quit, if you can not learn to do a landing on a large
airport with the engine shut down, you dont have a prayer of being able to accomplish
a real forced landing. The real life practice will probably make the
difference between a forced landing and a crash.
John,
What kind of glide do you get with your MK III ? How long to make a 180 and at
what speed and bank angle ?
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159335#159335
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| Subject: | Re: Streamlining struts |
That is some nice work ! I have never seen anyone weld aluminum that thin before
[Shocked] Stopping the vibrations is reason enough to do that, did you get
any speed gain with the stream line sleeves ?
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159337#159337
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| Subject: | Re: Starhill-Nauga Field Fly Around - July 11th, 12th, 13th |
I loved the videos Possums, watched all of the ones on your site. Your glide
looked a little better than what I get, the MK III comes down quicker. I guess
the extra weight and wide cockpit of the MK III take their toll on the glide.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159338#159338
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| Subject: | Re: Starhill-Nauga Field Fly Around - July 11th, 12th, 13th |
Hi John,
I wasn't trying to trash your fly in, the runway just looks really intimidating...
More difficult than I would try to operate out of at this point. I have
managed to get over 100 hours in my Kolb without bending anything, mostly by
expanding my limitations slowly :)
Its cool you are going to the trouble to host something like this, I just took
a look at some pictures and though " Oh my Gawd " , and wrote a post...
Anyways look at the bright side, my post caused more discussion and advertisement
than you would have gotten all year [Wink]
The best luck to you and your fly in.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159339#159339
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