Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:57 AM - Re: Re: Dead Stick Approaches ( Holes in the sky) (Richard Girard)
2. 06:42 AM - Re: Re: Dead Stick Approaches ( Holes in the sky) (John Hauck)
3. 07:22 AM - Re: used 912uls (icrashrc)
4. 08:32 AM - Re: Re: used 912uls (Richard Girard)
5. 08:37 AM - Re: Re: Dead Stick Approaches ( Holes in the sky) (Richard Girard)
6. 08:49 AM - Re: Re: Dead Stick Approaches ( Holes in the sky) (John Hauck)
7. 09:48 AM - Re: Re: Dead Stick Approaches ( Holes in the sky) (Dana Hague)
8. 10:09 AM - Re: Re: Dead Stick Approaches ( Holes in the sky) (Dana Hague)
9. 10:13 AM - For all 912 users (Bob Noyer)
10. 10:43 AM - Re: For all 912 users (John Williamson)
11. 11:52 AM - Re: Re: For all 912 users (John Hauck)
12. 12:08 PM - Re: Re: Dead Stick Approaches ( Holes in the sky) (John Hauck)
13. 12:22 PM - Re: Dead Stick Approaches ( Holes in the sky) (JetPilot)
14. 12:26 PM - Re: Dead Stick Approaches ( Holes in the sky) (JetPilot)
15. 12:32 PM - Re: Here is what VG's did to my airspeed. (JetPilot)
16. 12:40 PM - Re: Here is what VG's did to my airspeed. (John Williamson)
17. 12:44 PM - Re: Re: Dead Stick Approaches ( Holes in the sky) (John Hauck)
18. 12:47 PM - Re: Re: Here is what VG's did to my airspeed. (Robert Laird)
19. 02:20 PM - Firestar project (william sullivan)
20. 02:23 PM - wing damage (william sullivan)
21. 02:54 PM - Re: used 912uls (JetPilot)
22. 02:56 PM - Re: Here is what VG's did to my airspeed. (JetPilot)
23. 03:06 PM - Re: Re: Dead Stick Approaches ( Holes in the sky) (Dana Hague)
24. 03:14 PM - Re: Firestar project (JetPilot)
25. 03:41 PM - Re: Re: Dead Stick Approaches ( Holes in the sky) (John Hauck)
26. 03:50 PM - Re: Re: Firestar project (John Hauck)
27. 04:33 PM - How Much Load does Turbulence put on a Kolb ??? (JetPilot)
28. 04:39 PM - Re: Firestar project (JetPilot)
29. 04:43 PM - Re: Firestar project (The BaronVonEvil)
30. 04:52 PM - Re: How Much Load does Turbulence put on a Kolb ??? (John Hauck)
31. 04:55 PM - Re: Re: Firestar project (John Hauck)
32. 04:58 PM - FAA Grants Extension... (The BaronVonEvil)
33. 05:01 PM - Re: Firestar project (Ralph B)
34. 05:23 PM - Re: Re: For all 912 users (N27SB@aol.com)
35. 05:26 PM - Re: FAA Grants Extension... (Richard Girard)
36. 05:43 PM - Re: Re: Dead Stick Approaches ( Holes in the sky) (The Kuffels)
37. 05:54 PM - Re: Re: For all 912 users (Bob Noyer)
38. 05:55 PM - Mag Drop 912ULS (John Hauck)
39. 06:13 PM - Re: Mag Drop 912ULS (JetPilot)
40. 06:24 PM - Re: FAA Grants Extension... (Rick Lewis)
41. 06:33 PM - Re: Mag Drop 912ULS (ElleryWeld@aol.com)
42. 06:39 PM - Re: Re: FAA Grants Extension... (ElleryWeld@aol.com)
43. 06:49 PM - Re: Re: FAA Grants Extension... (Richard Girard)
44. 06:49 PM - yummy (robert bean)
45. 06:58 PM - Re: Re: FAA Grants Extension... (Richard Girard)
46. 07:10 PM - Re: Re: Dead Stick Approaches ( Holes in the sky) (Dana Hague)
47. 07:14 PM - Re: Mag Drop 912ULS (lucien)
48. 07:15 PM - Re: Re: FAA Grants Extension... (Dana Hague)
49. 07:29 PM - Re: Re: Dead Stick Approaches ( Holes in the sky) (John Hauck)
50. 08:18 PM - Re: Re: Dead Stick Approaches ( Holes in the sky) (Larry Cottrell)
51. 10:48 PM - Re: Re: Dead Stick Approaches ( Holes in the sky) (The Kuffels)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Dead Stick Approaches ( Holes in the sky) |
Tom, all, I don't think we're beating a dead horse. The discussion is
forcing me to think the problem through and not just regurgitate what I
learned in pilot training. What Einstein called a gedunken (sp?), a thought
experiment. It's winter, bitterly cold outside here on the plains, the DAR
is coming Friday afternoon, there is little left to do other than a few
minor tweaks, and this is interesting.
>From a physics of flight standpoint there is no such thing as unaccelerated
flight. In straight and level, constant speed flight the acceleration forces
are in balance. Lift equals weight and drag equals thrust. For all
reasonable purposes, weight, the result of the local gravitational field
acting on the mass of the aircraft, is the only constant of the four and its
acceleration vector never changes, it is always toward the center of the
earth. In turning flight the aircraft's inertia wants to keep it going
straight, and gravity keeps accelerating the aircraft downward. Lift must
counteract both. Wish though I might, there is no free lunch. You've added a
new acceleration force, inertia, to the mix thereby disturbing the
equilibrium. You've also changed the acceleration vector of the lift. It no
longer directly opposes the gravity vector. The effect of inertia is to make
the aircraft seem to weigh more. More weight requires more lift. More weight
also means the aircraft's stall speed increases. Lift varies at the square
of the speed. Speed must increase to keep whatever margin above stall speed
you find acceptably safe.
Of course, one good test beats a thousand theoretical arguments. All that
would be required is a recording accelerometer and a sensitive GPS.
Rick
Do not archive
On Jan 23, 2008 1:19 AM, possums <possums@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> At 12:43 AM 1/23/2008, you wrote:
> >
> >Dana, all,
> >
> >I'm trying to shut up about this topic since it has been beaten to
> >death. Still I'm compelled to comment
>
> I should show you guys what you can do with the engine off & vg's &
> no one watching.
> But - I would get in trouble---------I'm legal now after 24 yrs.
> Like they say in the song. "Dance like no one is watching".
> I've got a one-seater - and an "iPod" tied into my helmet.
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Dead Stick Approaches ( Holes in the sky) |
Morning Gang:
Got a G Meter and a GPS.
If I can get a flight in between rain showers, I'll fly over to Wetumpka
Airport and shoot some dead stick landings to the north/south grass
strip.
What are you guys looking for? Maintaining 1G during a dead stick
approach while performing 180 deg turns?
I'll see what I can do.
I need to fly anyhow. I have a 400 rpm mag drop on one side. Talked to
Ronnie Smith about it yesterday. He told me to double check to insure
the throttle lever clevis's are lubed and free, where they attach to the
throttle cables. Told me this can cause a mag drop by getting the carbs
out of sync/balance. My first thought was spark plugs. I have a set to
stick in if the throttle lube does not cure my mag drop. Never had this
problem before, but there is always a first time.
Eric Tucker will be at Ronnie's tomorrow. Rotax classes begin Friday.
Ronnie will coordinate a time for me to fly down to replace the gears in
my 912ULS. If Eric can fit it in, he will incorporate my gear change
with that portion of the 912 course.
Take care,
john h
mkIII
Of course, one good test beats a thousand theoretical arguments. All
that would be required is a recording accelerometer and a sensitive GPS.
Rick
Message 3
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John, Rick, and Mike,
Thank you for the quick and informative responses. Mark Spencer in Cheektowaga
New York returned my original call about his engine on Sunday night. I was at
work and had little time to talk. Maybe it was the 18,000 tons of coal pushing
me down a hill that had me distracted. Anyway he told me to contact him Monday.
I called but no answer so I left a voicemail and emailed a list of basic questions
to him. He answered back that it was sold. I assume that means I asked
too many questions. At least I found out before the sale what type of person
I was dealing with. Thanks again to all that responded. Ill keep your suggestions
for future reference. BTW, know anyone with a new or low time 912uls for
sale at a reasonable price?
--------
Scott
www.ill-EagleAviation.com
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159963#159963
Message 4
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Scott, Here's another tip I picked up while attending classes at Lockwood, a
cheap way to check prop flange runout. Get a magnetic dial indicator base
from Harbor Freight Tools. If you hit one of their specials they're about
$7. Unscrew the post from the magnet base, it's the same thread as the
bosses for the prop controller on the side of the 912 gear box. Get an
inexpensive dial indicator that reads in .0001" increments, Enco Mfg., Penn
Tool and MSC have them for about $50. Now you can check the prop flange for
both axial and radial runout.
Rick
On Jan 23, 2008 9:20 AM, icrashrc <icrashrc@aol.com> wrote:
>
> John, Rick, and Mike,
>
> Thank you for the quick and informative responses. Mark Spencer in
> Cheektowaga New York returned my original call about his engine on Sunday
> night. I was at work and had little time to talk. Maybe it was the 18,000
> tons of coal pushing me down a hill that had me distracted. Anyway he told
> me to contact him Monday. I called but no answer so I left a voicemail and
> emailed a list of basic questions to him. He answered back that it was sold.
> I assume that means I asked too many questions. At least I found out before
> the sale what type of person I was dealing with. Thanks again to all that
> responded. I'll keep your suggestions for future reference. BTW, know anyone
> with a new or low time 912uls for sale at a reasonable price?
>
> --------
> Scott
>
> www.ill-EagleAviation.com
>
> do not archive
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159963#159963
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Dead Stick Approaches ( Holes in the sky) |
John, Could your throttle cables have stretched or changed in such a way
that your carbs got out of synch?
Rick
On Jan 23, 2008 8:39 AM, John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
> Morning Gang:
>
> Got a G Meter and a GPS.
>
> If I can get a flight in between rain showers, I'll fly over to Wetumpka
> Airport and shoot some dead stick landings to the north/south grass strip.
>
> What are you guys looking for? Maintaining 1G during a dead stick
> approach while performing 180 deg turns?
>
> I'll see what I can do.
>
> I need to fly anyhow. I have a 400 rpm mag drop on one side. Talked to
> Ronnie Smith about it yesterday. He told me to double check to insure the
> throttle lever clevis's are lubed and free, where they attach to the
> throttle cables. Told me this can cause a mag drop by getting the carbs out
> of sync/balance. My first thought was spark plugs. I have a set to stick
> in if the throttle lube does not cure my mag drop. Never had this problem
> before, but there is always a first time.
>
> Eric Tucker will be at Ronnie's tomorrow. Rotax classes begin Friday.
> Ronnie will coordinate a time for me to fly down to replace the gears in my
> 912ULS. If Eric can fit it in, he will incorporate my gear change with that
> portion of the 912 course.
>
> Take care,
>
> john h
> mkIII
>
> Of course, one good test beats a thousand theoretical arguments. All that
> would be required is a recording accelerometer and a sensitive GPS.
>
> Rick
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Dead Stick Approaches ( Holes in the sky) |
Rick:
I doubt it, but anything is possible when Murphy is there to help.
I have put over 2500 hours on three 912 engines. Until this last
engine, never synchronized the carbs with gauges. This is the first
occurrence of a mag drop I have experienced, unless I had a plug trying
to foul. Then, the problem was solved by some good hard running of the
912.
john h
mkIII
John, Could your throttle cables have stretched or changed in such a
way that your carbs got out of synch?
Rick
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Dead Stick Approaches ( Holes in the sky) |
At 12:43 AM 1/23/2008, The Kuffels wrote:
>...Keep your speed constant, it keeps your total load constant and keeps
>your stall margin constant. We are talking about 90 or 180 degree turns
>here. In theory your decent rate will continue to increase at constant
>airspeed in a bank. In practice the increased vertical component of drag
>slows the increase in decent rate and things remain nicely stable on rollout...
If you roll into a bank and AND keep it coordinated (ball in center), then
you have to either pitch up by pulling back on the stick (thus pulling more
than 1g), or you have to yaw toward the bottom of the turn, which means
your nose drops (the plane naturally does this if you don't pull back on
the stick to keep the nose up). Thus you'll accelerate down and pick up
speed, since the drag doesn't increase that much (except as a function of
speed). Either way, in a bank at least one of three things MUST
happen: You pull more than 1g, or you're flying uncoordinated (slipping),
or your speed increases.
I do agree with what I presume was your original point, that you avoid an
accelerated stall by letting the nose drop and the aircraft accelerate...
though this is probably more effective in a slow draggy airplane like an
ultralight than a faster, cleaner GA plane.
Later, of course, you have to exceed 1g pulling out of the resultant dive.
-Dana
--
Televangelists: The Pro Wrestlers of religion.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Dead Stick Approaches ( Holes in the sky) |
At 07:55 AM 1/23/2008, Richard Girard wrote:
> From a physics of flight standpoint there is no such thing as
> unaccelerated flight. In straight and level, constant speed flight the
> acceleration forces are in balance. Lift equals weight and drag equals thrust.
You're confusing force and acceleration. The _forces_ are in balance, and
thus the _acceleration_ is zero.
> In turning flight the aircraft's inertia wants to keep it going
> straight, and gravity keeps accelerating the aircraft downward. Lift must
> counteract both. Wish though I might, there is no free lunch. You've
> added a new acceleration force, inertia, to the mix thereby disturbing
> the equilibrium. You've also changed the acceleration vector of the lift.
> It no longer directly opposes the gravity vector.
Inertia isn't really a force (although it can sometimes be treated as such
depending on your frame of reference).
In turning flight at a constant altitude, the lift vector is no longer
vertical (due to the bank). Lift must increase so that the vertical
component of lift is still equal to the force from gravity. The horizontal
component of lift is unbalanced, so it causes an _acceleraton_ to the side
(F=MA), causing the turn. This acceleration, multiplied by the mass of the
aircraft, is what you're terming inertia (the plane "wanting" to keep going
straight).
I realize this is basic, you clearly understand it despite incorrect
terminology, but in physics (and aerodynamics!) it's important to use exact
terminology.
To maintain 1g in a banked turn, the aircraft must accelerate downward as a
result of the reduced vertical component of lift, _and_ accelerate to the
inside of the turn according to the horizontal component of lift. The
result is a steepening spiral dive, which, over the course of a 180 turn,
may or may not develop to alarming speeds or pitch angles.
-Dana
--
Televangelists: The Pro Wrestlers of religion.
Message 9
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| Subject: | For all 912 users |
A few days ago I was having some work done at my local garage. A
blonde came in and asked for a seven-hundred-ten. We all looked at
each other and another customer asked, "What is a seven-hundred-ten?"
She replied, "You know, the little piece in the middle of the engine,
I have lost it and need a new one." She replied that she did not know
exactly what it was, but this piece had always been there. The
mechanic gave her a piece of paper and a pen and asked her to draw
what the piece looked like. She drew a circle and in the middle of it
wrote 710. He then took her over to another car which had its hood up
and asked "is there a 710 on this car?" She pointed and said, "Of
course, its right there."
If you're not sure what a 710 is Click Here
regards,
Bob N. FireFly 070 Old Kolb
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/ronoy/
do not archive
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: For all 912 users |
I had no idea ! :?
After checking the link, I'm still laughing! [Laughing]
do not archive
--------
John Williamson
Arlington, TX
Kolbra, 912ULS
http://home.tx.rr.com/kolbrapilot
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160005#160005
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: For all 912 users |
> After checking the link, I'm still laughing! [Laughing]
> John Williamson
John W/Grey Baron:
I think it was a 710 that put Dennis Kirby in the mud hole.
john h - Removed my 710 to check my oil, but made sure I put it back on so
I would not have to land in a mud hole.
mkIII
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Dead Stick Approaches ( Holes in the sky) |
> At 12:43 AM 1/23/2008, The Kuffels wrote:
>>...Keep your speed constant, it keeps your total load constant and keeps
>>your stall margin constant. We are talking about 90 or 180 degree turns
>>here. In theory your decent rate will continue to increase at constant
>>airspeed in a bank. In practice the increased vertical component of drag
>>slows the increase in decent rate and things remain nicely stable on
>>rollout...
Tom K
> I do agree with what I presume was your original point, that you avoid an
> accelerated stall by letting the nose drop and the aircraft accelerate...
> though this is probably more effective in a slow draggy airplane like an
> ultralight than a faster, cleaner GA plane.
>
> Later, of course, you have to exceed 1g pulling out of the resultant dive.
>
> -Dana
Dana:
You need to get out and fly a little. It did wonders for me. The computer
monitor is no substitute for some good old fashioned aviating.
I landed about 15 minutes ago after practicing gliding to touch down at idle
power and also dead stick. While gliding, I also practiced left and right
turns of 90 and 180 degrees, keeping my airspeed constant (well.........as
best I could ;-) ).
Results, 1 G all the way to the ground. Hard to get into an accelerated
stall at 1 G. Hard to stall a Kolb, unless you violate the minimum stall
speed.
john h
mkIII - Still got a mag drop, even though I oiled up the throttle cable
clevis's at the carb throttle levers. Next, replace the spark plugs Travis
sent me yesterday. I might have gotten some heat sink paste too far down on
one or more of the plugs when I recently replaced them.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Dead Stick Approaches ( Holes in the sky) |
jindoguy(at)gmail.com wrote:
>
>
> In turning flight the aircraft's inertia wants to keep it going straight, and
gravity keeps accelerating the aircraft downward. Lift must counteract both.
Wish though I might, there is no free lunch. You've added a new acceleration
force, inertia, to the mix thereby disturbing the equilibrium.
> [b]
This is what I have been saying all along. If you turn, you MUST generate more
than 1 G load on your wings. You either load the plane with 1 G either during
the turn, or after the turn to arrest the resulting dive, or both. But, as
I said before, you don't get something for nothing. It takes force to turn a
moving airplane, and that force is generated by the wings.
What is happening is that some guys are flying it so smoothly, that they don't
realize that they are putting more than 1 G on the wings, but realize it or not,
they are... Its a physical law that no amount of good piloting is going to
break. Most likely they are putting some extra load on the wing, not much,
but some during the turn, and again more than 1 G load while pulling out while
leveling off, they just don't realize it.
What Tom suggested is good piloting and very good technique, if I was writing about
it, I would not say you never put more than 1 G load on the wing, because
it is just plain wrong. Teach your technique, but get the theory correct also
when you teach it... It will be more credible and make for much happier readers
:) It will also save embarrassment when pilots that are familiar with
flight physics read your article.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160025#160025
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Dead Stick Approaches ( Holes in the sky) |
[quote="Possums"]At 12:43 AM 1/23/2008, you wrote:
>
>
> I should show you guys what you can do with the engine off & vg's &
> no one watching.
>
> .
Now you have done it, I gotta see this !!! Just put the video on YouTube and
post the link here :)
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160026#160026
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Here is what VG's did to my airspeed. |
MKIIIX040 wrote:
> You seem to be mistaking your altitude with RPM which reads 3500.
>
> Vic
> do not archive
>
That is correct,
I corrected those items in my second post. Engine Speed was 3500 RPM, and Altitude
was 2200. I noticed that just after I hit the submit button on the first
post, but it was to late...
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160028#160028
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Here is what VG's did to my airspeed. |
Hi All,
Did you know that when you make a mistake in a post, that you can edit that post
to fix it instead of making another post.
do not archive
--------
John Williamson
Arlington, TX
Kolbra, 912ULS
http://home.tx.rr.com/kolbrapilot
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160031#160031
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Dead Stick Approaches ( Holes in the sky) |
> This is what I have been saying all along. If you turn, you MUST generate
> more than 1 G load on your wings. You either load the plane with 1 G
> either during the turn, or after the turn to arrest the resulting dive, or
> both. But, as I said before, you don't get something for nothing. It
> takes force to turn a moving airplane, and that force is generated by the
> wings.
>
> What is happening is that some guys are flying it so smoothly, that they
> don't realize that they are putting more than 1 G on the wings, but
> realize it or not, they are... Its a physical law that no amount of good
> piloting is going to break. Most likely they are putting some extra load
> on the wing, not much, but some during the turn, and again more than 1 G
> load while pulling out while leveling off, they just don't realize it.
>
> What Tom suggested is good piloting and very good technique, if I was
> writing about it, I would not say you never put more than 1 G load on the
> wing, because it is just plain wrong. Teach your technique, but get the
> theory correct also when you teach it... It will be more credible and
> make for much happier readers :) It will also save embarrassment when
> pilots that are familiar with flight physics read your article.
>
> Mike
Mike B:
Read my last post reference gliding and turning pulling 1g. I just flew it.
No big deal. Keep the air speed constant and the turns will remain at 1g.
Sorry to disagree. Yes, I have a certified Accelerometer installed in my
mkIII. Rate of descent remained constant as long as I kept the air speed
contant.
I don't think Tom Kuffle has anything to be embarassed about. Maybe you
need to do some homework before you tell somebody else they are full of
crap. ;-)
Take care,
john h
mkIII - Super 1g glider guy!
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| Subject: | Re: Here is what VG's did to my airspeed. |
Not if you're using email to make posts.
On 1/23/08, John Williamson <kolbrapilot1@tx.rr.com> wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> Did you know that when you make a mistake in a post, that you can edit that post
to fix it instead of making another post.
>
do not archive
Message 19
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| Subject: | Firestar project |
On the Firestar project I recently started, yesterday I ordered a couple of tires
from Aircraft Spruce. You guys were right- excellent service. I also called
Aitcraft Tech and talked to both Jim and Dondi- again excellent. I took some
scrap wood and built a boom support so I could work on the tailwheel. Too cold
for more. Today I put the wings on, and tried to weigh it. I don't trust the
bathroom scale anymore- re-weigh everything, and kept getting different results.
I had to stop and take the wings off when the wind picked up, but it might
be 15 pounds heavy. Or it's the scale. I was having trouble with the door catch,
but my Dremel smoothed off a bumpy weld on the catch, and I polished the
rotary arm. I still have to clamp the window frame it's mounted on- it slides
back and forth. Epoxy, maybe, or a pop rivet. I tried to start it, and the primer
would not pump up, and I was afraid to blow a gas line. The filter looks to
have crud in it, and I was looking at the Mikuni
pump. It tilts to the front. Is there any possibility that it could have water
in that corner and froze? The temp only went up to about 34 today.
Bill (old Firestar)
Message 20
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I forgot- we checked the wings, and the only damage is to the ailerons. Three
small holes no bigger than 2". I just have to check the color chip chart, and
order a small kit from Aircraft Tech.
Bill
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Good luck on finding your 912-S, its a great engine. Its expensive, but well
worth the money... Reliable and the smoothest running 4 stroke I have ever flown,
much less vibration than a 172 or similar plane.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160061#160061
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Here is what VG's did to my airspeed. |
Yep, on other boards I just edit my post if I make a mistake or miiistyyype something
[Wink] But a lot of people here use the email, and once I hit the submit
button, there is no taking it back [Embarassed]
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160063#160063
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| Subject: | Re: Dead Stick Approaches ( Holes in the sky) |
At 03:05 PM 1/23/2008, John Hauck wrote:
>You need to get out and fly a little. It did wonders for me. The
>computer monitor is no substitute for some good old fashioned aviating.
You're right, I do! Just too damn cold here, right now.
>I landed about 15 minutes ago after practicing gliding to touch down at
>idle power and also dead stick. While gliding, I also practiced left and
>right turns of 90 and 180 degrees, keeping my airspeed constant
>(well.........as best I could ;-) ).
>
>Results, 1 G all the way to the ground. Hard to get into an accelerated
>stall at 1 G. Hard to stall a Kolb, unless you violate the minimum stall
>speed.
John, how sensitive is your G meter? In a 30 banked turn you only pull
1.15g; 20 only 1.06g. And how much bank, and were all turns coordinated?
I'll stick with Mike here; no amount of good piloting can break the laws of
physics. An object moving along a curved path experiences acceleration in
the plane of the curve, perpendicular to the direction of motion. The
vector sum of that acceleration and the 1g downward pull of gravity is the
total g's you're pulling, so unless you push the nose down to reduce the
vertical 1g, that vector sum will be greater than 1.0... and if you push
the nose down you won't maintain that constant speed. It is impossible to
make a coordinated turn at a constant velocity in an airplane while
maintaining only 1g, unless you have some means to continuously increase
drag (or decrease thrust) as the airplane pitches down... and even then you
will see more than 1g pulling out of the resultant dive. TANSTAAFL (There
Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch).
I _will_ believe it's possible (in a shallow bank), within the accuracy of
the instruments installed on most aircraft.
-Dana
--
It feels great to wake up and not know what day it is, doesn't it?
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Firestar project |
Personally I would not worry about 15 pounds overweight. An early firestar makes
a very passable ultralight. Trying to pass off a 2 seat MK III as an ultralight
probably wont work, but if its just 15 pounds only an anal SOB would care
either way.
Your best option is to N Number you plane. I just heard through the grapevine
that if you are an EAA member, and you send in all your paperwork, that the FAA
is giving extensions to get the inspection done. But you MUST have your paperwork
in by Jan 31. Dont take this as gospel, but I just heard this today...
Call the EAA before doing anything and confirm it with them.
If for some reason you just can not get an N number, I would not worry about 15
pounds. There will always be some idiot that will tell you to throw your plane
away, or take weight off the structure, etc etc but I never listen to anal
idiots.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160072#160072
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| Subject: | Re: Dead Stick Approaches ( Holes in the sky) |
>>Results, 1 G all the way to the ground. Hard to get into an accelerated
>>stall at 1 G. Hard to stall a Kolb, unless you violate the minimum stall
>>speed.
>
> John, how sensitive is your G meter? In a 30 banked turn you only pull
> 1.15g; 20 only 1.06g. And how much bank, and were all turns coordinated?
>
> I _will_ believe it's possible (in a shallow bank), within the accuracy of
> the instruments installed on most aircraft.
>
> -Dana
Dana:
My accelerometer is as accurate and sensitive enough to get a yellow tag.
Most folks that know me and my flying style will tell you me and Miss P'fer
don't know what a 20 and 30 degree bank are. We fly, and have a hell of a
lot of fun doing it. I can assure you my banks were well over 45 degrees
because it takes that and much more to to nice tight 90 and 180 degree turns
at 60 mph in a mkIII. If I made the turn and maintained altitude, it pulled
a g. If I maintained 60 mph until I touched down, I never pulled more than
1 g.
I just got back from doing some more maintenance and test flying. What a
beautiful day to fly. Calm air, 48F on the ground and 40F at 3,000. Makes
no difference whether you believe me or not. The mkIII still glides and
turns at 1g with constant airspeed. To be honest, I would not have believed
it entirely either, until I did it this morning.
Guess you'll just have to go out and do this exercise yourself to see what
the results are. I'd be glad to demonstrate if you are in the area.
Take care and watch your g meter.
john h
mkIII
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Firestar project |
> If for some reason you just can not get an N number, I would not worry
about 15 pounds. There will always be some idiot that will tell you to
throw your plane away, or take weight off the structure, etc etc but I never
listen to anal idiots.
>
> Mike
Mike B:
If the aircraft weighs more than 254 lbs, it is an airplane.
If the aircraft weighs 269 lbs and is not registered maybe you can explain
away those 15 lbs to the first FAA type that ramp checks you. Yes, ramp
checks are real, even back in prehistoric times of the 1980's.
I don't consider myself an anal idiot, however, I would not recommend to
anyone to fly a fat ultralight because if is not an ultralight but an
unregistered airplane.
What do you think about those 1g glides to touch down with a few 90 and 180
deg turns thrown in there for good measure? Like I said, I would never have
believed it if I had not done it.
john h
mkIII
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| Subject: | How Much Load does Turbulence put on a Kolb ??? |
Hi John,
I did not know you had a G Meter, but here is a question I have been wondering
about for a long time, and I bet you have the answer.
On one of those normal summer days in Alabama, mid day when the cumulus clouds
are growing pretty big, no storms, but just one of those summer days when the
thermals kick the carp out of the Kolb.. How many G's does this type of Turbulence
put on the airframe ?
And one more question, in really bad, unusually bad turbulence, how many G's are
you seeing ?
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160093#160093
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Firestar project |
Hi John,
I think you are one lucky dog because you got to go flying your Kolb today and
the rest of us did'nt !!! I plan on practicing engine out turns some more as
soon as I get a chance...
Did you notice what your altitude loss was in the 180 degree turn back to the field
?
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160094#160094
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Firestar project |
Hi Bill,
Please take the time to review the requirements for Ultralights in the FAR's Part
103.
This will help you decide weather or not you can operate under those rules or if
you need to get registered as a experimental light sport or amateur built experimental.
Sometimes those real anal guys are with the FAA. Most of the FAA guys are there
to help you but they are only human and can have a bad day like any of us.
The FAA has the authority to levy fines and can impose other penalties including
confinement etc.
Please make sure you are okay with the "Rules" so that you can avoid any hiccups
that life can throw at you.
Good Luck with your Project and Welcome to the Kolb List.
Best Regards
Carlos G
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160095#160095
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| Subject: | Re: How Much Load does Turbulence put on a Kolb ??? |
> I did not know you had a G Meter, but here is a question I have been
wondering about for a long time, and I bet you have the answer.
> Mike
Mike B:
Can't answer another set of questions until I find out if you believe I can
glide my mkIII to the ground while performing 90 and 180 high banked turns
and never pull over 1 g. ;-(
Turbulence in the SE in nothing in comparison to turbulence out West,
especially in the Rockies. Never seen more than +3.5 g's or -2 g's. That
is more than enough to be quite painful, especially in my neck. -2 g's will
shut down the engine momentarily as the floats are forced closed and the
engine is starved for fuel. It will also shuffle all my stuff from the left
seat to the roof of the cabin and back down, not necessarily to the left
seat, but all over the damn airplane. At times like this I hold on to the
seat pan with my left hand and cinch the harnesses up tight. When it gets
too uncomfortable to fly, I find a nice little airport and take a nap.
john h
mkIII - 2,731.9 hours
912ULS - 163.4 hours
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Firestar project |
> Did you notice what your altitude loss was in the 180 degree turn back to
the field ?
>
> Mike
Mike B:
Nope. Wasn't concerned with altitude loss, but making my touch down point
on the grass. Worked every time.
I'll have to watch the VSI next time and see if there is much difference
between 1g glide straight and 1g glide in 90 and 180 deg turns.
john h
mkIII
Message 32
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| Subject: | FAA Grants Extension... |
Hi All,
This was just posted on the EAA website that The FAA is going to grant an extension
for those have the registration in the works for ELSA.
So there is now a little breathing room for those who are frantically working on
getting those planes done.
Best Regards
Carlos G
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160100#160100
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Firestar project |
I registered my Original Firestar at 319 lbs. After I built it, it was about 290
lbs. I switched to a 447 Rotax engine, added streamlined struts, bigger wheels,
lexan gap seal, and a nice cushion seat. All of this adds weight. I wanted
to have the capability to fly cross country, so I carry an extra 6 gallons. Under
103, I couldn't add anything or carry more fuel. Now I can.
--------
Ralph B
Original Firestar
N91493 E-AB
21 years flying it
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160101#160101
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: For all 912 users |
Bob, now ya have me worried, my firefly doesn't have one either, worse yet,
I can't find a place to put one!
steve
firefly on Floats
In a message dated 1/23/2008 2:54:15 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
jhauck@elmore.rr.com writes:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> After checking the link, I'm still laughing! [Laughing]
> John Williamson
John W/Grey Baron:
I think it was a 710 that put Dennis Kirby in the mud hole.
john h - Removed my 710 to check my oil, but made sure I put it back on so
I would not have to land in a mud hole.
mkIII
Steve B
Firefly 007/Floats
do not archive
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: FAA Grants Extension... |
EAA's E-LSA Exemption Request Approved More time granted for aircraft
already registered but awaiting inspection
*January 23, 2008* =97 FAA's senior staff arrived for the annual mid-winter
EAA/FAA summit meeting at the EAA Aviation Center in concert with official
approval of EAA's exemption request for the transition of ultralights and
two-place machines to the Experimental-Light-Sport Aircraft (E-LSA) categor
y
after the January 31 deadline.
The exemption allows aircraft owners who have submitted their aircraft
registration (n-number) application to the FAA Aircraft Registration Branch
and had it entered into the FAA system on or before January 31, 2008, to
complete the process, including issuance of an airworthiness certificate,
beyond the deadline.
"EAA is very pleased that FAA saw the necessity of this exemption to meet
the backlog of applications to the E-LSA category," said Earl Lawrence,
EAA's vice president of government and industry programs. "Our good working
relationship with FAA allowed us to understand exactly what these aircraft
owners needed, what the FAA would allow within a request, and the
time-essential nature of this exemption approval."
The exemption provides additional time for those already registered but
awaiting inspection, and also provides relief for those facing certificatio
n
issues beyond their control (i.e., severe weather preventing DAR travel,
shortage of critical flight safety components from manufacturers, etc.) to
complete the certification process beyond the deadline.
More information on the exemption is available from EAA Aviation Services a
t
877-359-1232.
The FAA senior staff is in Oshkosh for its annual session with EAA
representatives, a unique gathering that allows for productive discussion o
f
important aviation issues on many fronts, including homebuilt and vintage
aircraft, sport pilot, warbirds, aerobatic flights, and more. This unmatche
d
environment is allows an active exchange of concerns and ideas with top
aviation policymakers, and direct progress toward workable solutions.
More updates from the EAA/FAA summit session will be coming on the EAA
website, e-Hotline and EAA publications.
On Jan 23, 2008 6:56 PM, The BaronVonEvil <grageda@innw.net> wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> This was just posted on the EAA website that The FAA is going to grant an
> extension for those have the registration in the works for ELSA.
>
> So there is now a little breathing room for those who are frantically
> working on getting those planes done.
>
> Best Regards
> Carlos G
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160100#160100
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Dead Stick Approaches ( Holes in the sky) |
Dana,
<< The vector sum of that acceleration and the 1g downward pull
of gravity is the total g's you're pulling, so unless you push
the nose down to reduce the vertical 1g, that vector sum will be
greater than 1.0. >>
But we aren't keeping a vertical 1g. At constant airspeed and
level flight we are keeping 1g on the wings. Now rotate the
wings. The 1g load vector rotates with the wing to produce 2
components. One horizontal to produce the turning acceleration
and a correspondingly lower vertical to oppose (partly) earth's
gravity. Which is of course why we start descending more rapidly.
The point remains if you maintain a constant airspeed while
maneuvering to land you will never reduce your stall margin (+/-
the secondary effect of increasing and decreasing your decent
rate). This is most important in the 90 degree turn to final
where every year pilots try to hasten the turn with rudder. In
the 180 reversing turns on a dead stick approaches (remember dead
stick approaches, this is a thread about dead stick approaches)
it doesn't matter where you roll out left or right so just use a
constant shallow bank and constant airspeed. This is good habit
building practice for the 90 turn to final where you might want
to tighten the turn by increasing the bank angle without fear.
Tom Kuffel
Whitefish, MT
Building Original FireStar
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| Subject: | Re: For all 912 users |
No worry, Steve....fer all y'all (pome?) jes take some 'ol barn paint
an' put this on yer fuel cap: TCOO8
regards,
Bob N. FireFly 070 Old Kolb
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/ronoy/
do not archive
Message 38
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Hi Gang:
Well, I'm still sorting through causes for my mag drop, 200 one side and 400
the other side at 4,000 rpm. I oiled the throttle cable clevis connections
at the carb throttle levers. That didn't solve the problem.
Travis had sent me a set of plugs. Installed those and still got a drop of
200 and 400. The old plugs had 70 hours on them.
Now I am a little stumped. So....while I was sitting at the end of the run
way doing these mag checks, I reached up and pulled the enricher on full.
Momentary rpm drop, then the tach went to 4,200 rpm. Now...I did the mag
check with enricher off: 200 and 400 rpm drop. Pulled the enricher on,
performed the mag check and got 150 rpm drop on both sides. ;-) Easy fix.
Raise the fuel needle a notch. Will have to do that tomorrow. Was getting
too dark and too cold to mess with it this evening.
Back in 1994, on my first flight to Alaska, I encountered some terrible
engine problems as soon as the temps dropped down into the 40's. The engine
was new to me, having flown it less than 100 hours prior to departure for
Alaska. Those hours were all flown in moderate to hot temps. No problems.
It really got bad between Cold Foot and Dead Horse, Alaska. I landed on the
road 60 miles south of Dead Horse. Changed plugs, fuel filter, dumped the
float bowls, and whispered a very sincere prayer. Made it into Dead Horse
and the remainder of my flight home. However, I had no idea what was wrong.
It did get better when I opened up the idle screws while weathered in for
four days at Dead Horse. I wasn't willing to tear into the carbs on this
new engine where I was located for fear of losing a part and not being able
to replace it.
When I got home to Alabama and Winter arrived, I discovered the enricher.
On a flight to Lucedale, MS, on a very cold day, the engine started losing
that nice crisp feel it normally had. I pulled the throttle back to 4,000
rpm and pulled on the enricher. RPM increased to 4,200 rpm. ;-) When I
got back to Gantt International Airport I tore into the carbs. Raised the
fuel needles a notch and never looked back, nor had a mid-range leaning
problem again. Guess that is what it is going to take to get the new 912ULS
tweaked up to where she belongs.
My last 912ULS was not sensitive to cold and mid-range blues. I flew it to
Alaska a couple months after I installed it. In fact, flew this engine to
Alaska twice. Never had a problem the 1,233.0 hours I flew it. Just goes
to show, they ain't all alike.
john h
mkIII
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: Mag Drop 912ULS |
Thanks for the engine info. I have never flown my 912-S in cold weather. I would
have never thought a 4 stroke engine would have been that sensitive to temps.
Now when I do fly cross country, and it happens, I will know how to fix
it easily enough :)
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160120#160120
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| Subject: | Re: FAA Grants Extension... |
Please educate me on this. I want to register my Kolb, that I'm now building,
in the experimental light sport aircraft catagory. Have I missed the boat or
is the extension your talking about changing the way a completed aircraft is now
registered? I do want to be able to work on the aircraft myself and be able
to fly it in the sport plane catagory.
Rick Lewis
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160121#160121
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| Subject: | Re: Mag Drop 912ULS |
Up here in the North country we usually have to adjust our needles in the
Carb's two times a year when it warms up and when the temp drops I usually wait
till the first sign of a needed adjustment then do it then and run without a
hitch the rest of the season untill the weather temp changes and your engine
will let you know when to make the next adjustment
Ellery in Maine Building one flying thing after another
Do Not Archive
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: FAA Grants Extension... |
Rick
if you Register your Plane E-LSA you will have to take a repairmen's course
to be able to work on it your self, If you register it E-AB you will
automatically get the repairmen Certificate at the time of your inspection
Im sure I will be corrected here if I am telling you a fib but I am sure
this is the way it is having been through a few inspections
Ellery in Maine Building one flying thing after another
do not archive
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
Message 43
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| Subject: | Re: FAA Grants Extension... |
Rick, You will have to really bust ass, but it might be possible. Go to
FAA.gov and reserve an "N" number right now, you can pay with a credit card.
Download form 8050-88A Fill it out checking the "I don't have any receipts"
box and the "I can't get copies from the manufacturer" box. Do not sign it
until in front of the Notary Public at your bank. Get a form 8050-1 from
your local FSDO (it's a three parter and can't be downloaded. Get a money
order and make it payable to the Dept of the Treasury just as 8050-1 says to
do. Send it off tomorrow by next day delivery. Then pray, promise the Dear
Lord your first born, be a better person, whatever you think will move the
Man to work in your favor. As the announcement from EAA and FAA says "The
exemption allows aircraft owners *who have submitted their aircraft
registration (n-number) application to the FAA Aircraft Registration Branch
and had it entered into the FAA system on or before January 31, 2008,* to
complete the process, including issuance of an airworthiness certificate,
beyond the deadline."
Good Luck,
Rick Girard
On Jan 23, 2008 8:21 PM, Rick Lewis <cktman@hughes.net> wrote:
>
> Please educate me on this. I want to register my Kolb, that I'm now
> building, in the experimental light sport aircraft catagory. Have I missed
> the boat or is the extension your talking about changing the way a completed
> aircraft is now registered? I do want to be able to work on the aircraft
> myself and be able to fly it in the sport plane catagory.
>
> Rick Lewis
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160121#160121
>
>
Message 44
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TANSTAAFL (There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch)
-dana
Not quite true, got several in the mess hall a few years back.
-worth what I paid.
BB
please do not archive
Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: FAA Grants Extension... |
Ellery's right. You will have to take a 16 hour class to do you own annual
condition inspection, but you have a year to get that done. The only
difference between E-LSA and E-AB is that under E-AB you are the only one
who can get a repairman certificate for your airplane. If you sell it, the
new owner will have to get an A & P to do them. Under E-LSA the new owner
can take the class and get the certificate, too. May not make any difference
to you right now, it might down the road, you'll have to decide. Neither one
changes the requirements for the sport pilot license to fly it.
Rick Girard
On Jan 23, 2008 8:37 PM, <ElleryWeld@aol.com> wrote:
> *Rick *
> *if you Register your Plane E-LSA you will have to take a repairmen's
> course to be able to work on it your self, If you register it E-AB you will
> automatically get the repairmen Certificate at the time of your inspection
> *
> * Im sure I will be corrected here if I am telling you a fib but I am sure
> this is the way it is having been through a few inspections *
> **
> **
> *Ellery in Maine Building one flying thing after another*
> **
> *do not archive*
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape<http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489>in the new year.
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 46
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| Subject: | Re: Dead Stick Approaches ( Holes in the sky) |
At 08:40 PM 1/23/2008, The Kuffels wrote:
>
><< The vector sum of that acceleration and the 1g downward pull of gravity
>is the total g's you're pulling, so unless you push the nose down to
>reduce the vertical 1g, that vector sum will be greater than 1.0. >>
>
>But we aren't keeping a vertical 1g. At constant airspeed and level
>flight we are keeping 1g on the wings. Now rotate the wings. The 1g load
>vector rotates with the wing to produce 2 components. One horizontal to
>produce the turning acceleration and a correspondingly lower vertical to
>oppose (partly) earth's gravity. Which is of course why we start
>descending more rapidly.
Right, you start accelerating downward if the vertical component is less
than 1g.
>The point remains if you maintain a constant airspeed while maneuvering to
>land you will never reduce your stall margin...
That's the part I have a problem with, if you're accelerating downward your
airspeed won't be constant. Since you're _accelerating_ downward your
descent rate will continue to increase, as will your airspeed. The only
way to keep the speed from increasing is to slip the plane, which adds a
whole new set of variables.
A good example is the second half of a wingover (or the last quarter of a
standard Lazy-8). At the highest point in the wingover, you're banked,
say, 45, the ball is centered, pulling 1g or maybe even less, but you are
accelerating downward since the vertical component of lift is greater than
the airplane's weight. But the pullout at the bottom will be greater than
1g, since the wings then are both supporting the aircraft's weight but also
providing the force to accelerate the plane upward to slow the increased
descent rate.
But again, I agree as a matter of good technique: Let the nose drop in the
turn, which lets the plane speed up a bit while simultaneously reducing the
load factor.
Hmmm, just thought of something: In a pusher like a Kolb the instruments
(including John Hauck's g-meter) are well forward of the C.G., unlike a
conventional tractor plane. A g-meter mounted forward of the aircraft's
C.G. will show less than the actual g's while the aircraft is pitching
downward (just as a g-meter mounted on the tail would show a _greater_
reading). Not sure how significant (if at all) that would be, though.
-Dana
--
The secret of the universe is @*^^^ NO CARRIER
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| Subject: | Re: Mag Drop 912ULS |
I've flown my 912s for about 100 hours now in cold and high-altitude weather with
no problems running-wise, but there were a couple things I had to correct (apart
from some damage in the 1/3 float bowl) going to the higher altitude of
my airport (about 6300'):
- the idle mixture at the factory setting is too rich and gives a pretty fuel fouled
plug after idling for a little while. I chased this a while on the 1/3 carb
and just discovered the 2/4 side is also idling too rich at annual a few weeks
ago. I had to go in a half turn on the idle mix screw on 1/3 and looks like
I'll have to do thta on 2/4.
- the carburettor vent tubes have to be at the same pressure as the intake venturis
on the carbs, meaning the vent tubes have to go into the air cleaners if
you're not using the air box. Otherwise, the carbs run noticeably rich at high
altitudes. I made some fittings for mine with brass barbs from Lowes and that
completely cured the rich running.
As for ignition possibilities for the mag drop, one possibility could be the spark
plug wires and/or the caps. The caps are a frequent maintenance item on the
2-strokes, the parts inside, the resistor assy ,etc., deteriorates and breaks,
leading to sometimes strange behavior.
Havn't encountered any problems with the ones on my 912, but they don't look like
nothin' special to me....
If the plugs are ok and the ignition stuff is ok, it could very well be the wires/caps
messing up the works?
LS
--------
LS
FS II
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160135#160135
Message 48
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| Subject: | Re: FAA Grants Extension... |
At 09:21 PM 1/23/2008, Rick Lewis wrote:
>Please educate me on this. I want to register my Kolb, that I'm now
>building, in the experimental light sport aircraft catagory. Have I
>missed the boat or is the extension your talking about changing the way a
>completed aircraft is now registered? I do want to be able to work on the
>aircraft myself and be able to fly it in the sport plane catagory.
Since you're building it yourself, why do you want to register it as E-LSA
rather than experimental-amateur built?
-Dana
--
The secret of the universe is @*^^^ NO CARRIER
Message 49
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| Subject: | Re: Dead Stick Approaches ( Holes in the sky) |
> Hmmm, just thought of something: In a pusher like a Kolb the instruments
> (including John Hauck's g-meter) are well forward of the C.G., unlike a
> conventional tractor plane. A g-meter mounted forward of the aircraft's
> C.G. will show less than the actual g's while the aircraft is pitching
> downward (just as a g-meter mounted on the tail would show a _greater_
> reading). Not sure how significant (if at all) that would be, though.
>
> -Dana
Dana:
When the aircraft is flying at 1g, in a glide, it is not pitching if the
airspeed is held constant.
I flew the maneuvers many times on two seperate flights today.
Based on the g meter and my own flying experience, I am quite satisfied the
turns were done without loading the aircraft to more than 1 g.
Guess the only way to convince you is take you for a ride. ;-)
Damn! The g meter is on the wrong side of the cg. (scratching my head)
john h
mkIII
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| Subject: | Re: Dead Stick Approaches ( Holes in the sky) |
----- Original Message -----
From: "The Kuffels" <kuffel@cyberport.net>
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 6:40 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Dead Stick Approaches ( Holes in the sky)
I am really sorry that it has come to this. While I did mean to stimulate a
lagging list, I really never intended it to take on the same aspect as
SeaFoam. Tom, I personally want to thank you for helping me to see a simple
and easy way to insure that I did not overshoot the runway or the point that
I wanted to touch down. That aspect is one that most do not see as a
problem, but it is as real as not making the runway. With 2600 feet of
runway I managed to slip enough altitude that I landed in a safe spot. I
have to admit that at first I "mushed" it to lose altitude, then decided
that a slip would work better and be safer as well. It never occurred to me
to use something as simple as your method. I will keep it in mind and
utilize it when that situation comes up again. I do however doubt that I
will give a RATS ASS if I do happen to exceed one G.
Thanks again
Larry C
do not archive
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| Subject: | Re: Dead Stick Approaches ( Holes in the sky) |
Dana,
<< Since you're _accelerating_ downward your descent rate will
continue to increase, as will your airspeed. >>
Taint so on the second part. Your decent rate will increase
slightly until the vertical component of your drag cancels the
loss of vertical lift (if you turn long enough). But your
airspeed is your velocity forward, almost orthogonal to vertical.
In non-aerobatic flight it is a simple matter to adjust your
airspeed and accept the resulting descent rate.
And I say again, your vertical accelerations are a secondary
effect. Even a 500 feet/min descent is less than 1 percent of
your forward velocity at 60 mph. And a change in descent rate
from 250 to 500 ft/min is a change in your vertical velocity of
less than 3 mph. This is well within the ability of any pilot to
compensate as he maintains constant *forward* airspeed.
High-g pullout examples don't apply here because they involve
large changes in airspeed, power or vertical speed.
Go try it for yourself. In a simulated turn to final, holding
constant airspeed results in a 1g maneuver no matter what bank
angle (within reason, say 60 degrees).
Tom Kuffel
Whitefish, MT
Building Original FireStar
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