---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 02/11/08: 19 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:21 AM - Slingshot from Olinik's with HKS (T McCarthy) 2. 05:53 AM - Wing AOA on Kolb MK III? (grantr) 3. 06:57 AM - Redrive VW on Kolbs Update (Richard & Martha Neilsen) 4. 07:25 AM - Re: Wing AOA on Kolb MK III? (robert bean) 5. 07:38 AM - Re: Wing AOA on Kolb MK III? (Denny Rowe) 6. 08:07 AM - Re: Re: 503 on MK-3 (boyd) 7. 09:51 AM - Re: Re: 447 exhaust temperarures (N27SB@aol.com) 8. 09:55 AM - Re: Re: 447 exhaust temperarures (TK) 9. 10:10 AM - Re: Re: 503 on MK-3 (Richard & Martha Neilsen) 10. 10:38 AM - Re: Wing AOA on Kolb MK III? (grantr) 11. 01:21 PM - Re: Re: Anyone in Southern Texas (George Myers) 12. 03:59 PM - Wing Incidence and AOA on a MkIII (Mike Welch) 13. 04:13 PM - Re: Redrive VW on Kolbs Update (Ron) 14. 04:25 PM - Re: Re: Wing AOA on Kolb MK III? (Dana Hague) 15. 04:38 PM - Re: Wing AOA on Kolb MK III? (grantr) 16. 04:43 PM - Re: Redrive VW on Kolbs Update (cspoke) 17. 05:49 PM - Re: Wing Incidence and AOA on a MkIII (Richard Girard) 18. 06:59 PM - Re: Cleaning up a Mark-III () 19. 11:18 PM - Re: Wing Incidence and AOA on a MkIII (Denny Rowe) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:21:45 AM PST US From: "T McCarthy" Subject: Kolb-List: Slingshot from Olinik's with HKS I have an interesting story and question regarding the Slingshot for sale with the HKS. For those that do not know about it, it is the former Kolb factory demo plane, that was sold with the 912 to someone without enough tailwheel time, and was "cartwheeled" in a ground loop, requiring a wing replace and other unknown damage-- at least that is what the owner in Alabama told me when he had it listed without an engine a little over a year ago, but was very sketchy about the details. It looked great in pictures, but I thought it was not worth the 16 hour drive in person only to be disappointed. I have seen too many Kolb's after being repaired that I would not own with hard to notice, hidden damage. Now for the question, does anyone have 1st hand knowledge of the repairs? It just so happens that I called and talked to Jerry about putting a HKS on this very plane when it was for sale last year, which is probably how it came about that he found it. Now that it's all together, I find that I may again be interested that the hard work is done. Dreaming and freezing in Wisconsin Tom McCarthy N441TM, Original Firestar, 377, 530 hours N514TM, Zenith 601 HD, 912ul, 130 hours ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:53:04 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Wing AOA on Kolb MK III? From: "grantr" Why is the Kolb MK III wing set at 9 degrees positive when the plane is set level for the weight and balance? Does the plane fly with a 9 degree AOA in level cruise? I guess this is confusing to me because I build radio controlled airplanes and I set the wings and horizontal stabilizers at 0 degree AOA in relation to the fuselage and thrust line. These fly fine. I have experimented with raising the AOA of the wing and it doesnt seem to make much difference other than changing the trim settings. I know the faster you fly the wing has to lower AOA and the slower the AOA increasing until about 14 to 16 degrees before a stall occurs. 9 degrees seems fairly close to the stall AOA. What would happen if the wing was readjusted on the Kolb to have a Lower AOA? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163454#163454 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:57:19 AM PST US From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" Subject: Kolb-List: Redrive VW on Kolbs Update Wow that is a ridicules price. I have to believe that this is a engine package not just the engine and also might be the 100HP 912. The last price I heard from the US distributor in November and it was $18,000 for the 100HP engine only. The important thing is that the 912 series engines are way over priced. The redrive VW is a virtual match for the 912 series. The engine Rick Lewis is putting on his plane has the potential of out performing the 100HP rotax if he chooses to. The reliability could suffer with high power continues usage but only time will tell where significant reliability suffers. My air-cooled heads tend to over heat when pushed for very long above 80HP. I have an article being scheduled for the April issue in the EAA's Spot Pilot & Light-Sport Aircraft Magazine. It is called "Quest for Affordable Power". The timing couldn't be better. I talk about the VW engine package being $10,000 less than the 80HP rotax. Based on this new price, the difference will be much greater. I'm also pushing Great Planes Aircraft and New Kolb to communicate and maybe offer a engine package. The only remaining part that isn't off the shelf is an exhaust system that I'm try to get someone to produce it. I'm still trying to tune a prop for best overall performance. Last year I choose to pitch my prop for cruise performance at 3200 RPM. My climb out was in the 3400-3500 range depending on speed. The ideal climb RPM would be around 3800 RPM where climb rates would be spectacular with maybe 20 more HP. The Redrive VW even with the current prop and pitch is close to 912 performance. I have had the prop cut down by an inch to 71 inch diameter and will report the results when I get back to Michigan in the spring. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIC ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Lewis" Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 8:05 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: 503 on MK-3 > > I found out the other day, from Travis at Kolb, the latest price for a > Rotax 912 is $21,000. So much for a reasonable price engine from them. > There engines are good but NOT that good. [Rolling Eyes] > > > Rick Lewis > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163385#163385 > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:25:31 AM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Wing AOA on Kolb MK III? Grant, that is close to the cruise angle. Sure looked funny to me too at first, sort of plowing through the air. The SS has a different setup. I wonder at what angle the CG is checked on it? The main reason for the angle in cruise is the shape of the leading edge. -The most forward point is near the bottom of the wing surface. On most common GA wings like the Clark Y and the Aeronca NACA 4412 the leading edge has a much larger radius so the streamlining into the wind results in a more level angle. I'll guess that taping a large radius cuff (1/2 slice of foam pipe insulation) on a Kolb leading edge would result in a faster cruise. BB On 11, Feb 2008, at 8:50 AM, grantr wrote: > > > Why is the Kolb MK III wing set at 9 degrees positive when the > plane is set level for the weight and balance? > > Does the plane fly with a 9 degree AOA in level cruise? > > I guess this is confusing to me because I build radio controlled > airplanes and I set the wings and horizontal stabilizers at 0 > degree AOA in relation to the fuselage and thrust line. These fly > fine. I have experimented with raising the AOA of the wing and it > doesnt seem to make much difference other than changing the trim > settings. > > I know the faster you fly the wing has to lower AOA and the slower > the AOA increasing until about 14 to 16 degrees before a stall > occurs. 9 degrees seems fairly close to the stall AOA. > > What would happen if the wing was readjusted on the Kolb to have a > Lower AOA? > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163454#163454 > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:38:29 AM PST US From: "Denny Rowe" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Wing AOA on Kolb MK III? \Grant asked: > Does the plane fly with a 9 degree AOA in level cruise? Yes, maybe a little less. Grant also asked: > What would happen if the wing was readjusted on the Kolb to have a Lower > AOA? If you lowered the angle of insidence of a Mk-3s wing you would have to go a lot faster to take off and land as you would not have enough angle of attack to rotate at the Mk 3s low stall speed without dragging the tail. Also the horizontal tail angle would have to be changed accordingly, and you would be flying around with your nose higher in the air to get the wing back to the correct AOA. Homer got it right, these planes are a nice balance for light, low speed flying. > > > Denny Rowe, Mk-3 N616DR > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:07:23 AM PST US From: "boyd" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: 503 on MK-3 A MK-3C with a 503 will cruise at 65MPH, single pilot, & will climb with a 200lb pilot steep enough, & at plenty of "feet per minute" to get out of a SHORT strip. I would not call that underpowered. : ) Jim Maybe at sea level... try it on a warm summer day at 7000 ft... while on a cross country,,,, you will be wising for a 912 or 912s also if you want to sell it,,,, which plane would sell better... the 912 cost more but operates for less, by the time you put on 1200 to 1500 hours,,, they cost the same to own. Boyd ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:51:24 AM PST US From: N27SB@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: 447 exhaust temperarures Ed, I still follow John H's advice on 2 stroke. Put the needles and settings back to the factory setup. Then adjust your prop for 6500 in full throttle level flight. Your temps should be fine. As far as flying pulled back to 5200, IMHO, I run my 447 at 5800 to 6000 rpm. As you pull back the power you will be leaning the engine and it will run hotter. I do all of my descents at idle. Steve In a message dated 2/10/2008 11:20:12 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, DAquaNut@aol.com writes: Group, I am still plagued with too high of exhaust temps. I have tried different jet needles needle jets and main jets but there seems to always be a hot spot between 4000 and 5200 rpms. Question what is the minimum exhaust temp that is recommended for the Rotax 447 ? On climb out with the 170 main jet i am seeing 1000*. At other rpms, egts will get to 1150 or 1175. Will it hurt anything if I run it with the EGTS at 1000* I have it propped for 6250 static and the heads are at 350 *or so most of the time. This 447 is such a royal pain. I am thinking of getting one of those in flight adjustable carb mixture controls if I can. Ed Diebel FF # 62 ____________________________________ Who's never won? _Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music._ (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000 02548) (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025 48) ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:55:17 AM PST US From: TK Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: 447 exhaust temperarures DAquaNut@aol.com wrote: > Group, > > I am still plagued with too high of exhaust temps. I have tried > different jet needles needle jets and main jets but there seems to > always be a hot spot between 4000 and 5200 rpms. Question what > is the minimum exhaust temp that is recommended for the Rotax 447 ? > On climb out with the 170 main jet i am seeing 1000*. At other > rpms, egts will get to 1150 or 1175. Will it hurt anything if I run > it with the EGTS at 1000* I have it propped for 6250 static and the > heads are at 350 *or so most of the time. This 447 is such a royal > pain. I am thinking of getting one of those in flight adjustable carb > mixture controls if I can. > > > Ed Diebel FF # 62 Ed, What exhaust temps are you looking for? I don't consider the numbers your giving as being too high. Your head temps are up there, but still tolerable. Why the 170 main jet which makes it leaner? 165 is stock. What position is you needle clip in? I run my 447 with the stock jet, 11G2 needle in the third notch from the top, Head temps from 275 to 325 and exhaust temps from 1075 to 1175 depending on throttle some times peaking at 1200. Now have 795 hr.s on it and running strong! Check your Rotax service information manual and I think you will find that your exhaust temps are actually low. I'm sure you are aware that most of the gauges we use are not certified and can vary considerably from one another. Sounds like your prop pitch is OK by the static number you posted. I"m closer to 6400 since altering my tips on my wood Tennessee prop. Sounds like your running a little rich. Just my thought on the matter for what they are worth!!! Terry - FireFly #95 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:10:41 AM PST US From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: 503 on MK-3 Boyd We have heard that claim for a number of years but with the current engine prices the average person will never recover the cost differences. Even with current gas prices I would bet that the difference put in savings, would earn more than the operational $ differences. The bigger concern is that those 2 stroke engines run real close to self destruction. There are quite a few people that seem to keep them running fine but if your not one of them keep a landing site in your flight plan. Most four stroke engines just have more margin from self destruction. I flew in a 503 powered MKIIIC and it was clearly having a hard life. I would personally never leave the pattern or fly in/out of a short strip with my 200+ lb. butt in one. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIC ----- Original Message ----- From: "boyd" Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 10:57 AM Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: 503 on MK-3 > > > A MK-3C with a 503 will cruise at 65MPH, single pilot, & will climb with a > 200lb pilot steep enough, & at plenty of "feet per minute" to get out of > a > SHORT strip. I would not call that underpowered. > : ) Jim > > > Maybe at sea level... try it on a warm summer day at 7000 ft... while on > a > cross country,,,, you will be wising for a 912 or 912s also if you > want > to sell it,,,, which plane would sell better... the 912 cost more but > operates for less, by the time you put on 1200 to 1500 hours,,, they cost > the same to own. > > Boyd > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:38:27 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Wing AOA on Kolb MK III? From: "grantr" I think I know what your talking about however I don't see how the leading edge effects wing AOA that much. What kind of airfoil does the kolb have? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163523#163523 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:21:33 PM PST US From: "George Myers" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Anyone in Southern Texas Saturday morning I got up early, put on my long-johns, dressed quietly, made my lunch, grabbed my headset, slipped quietly into the garage, and proceeded to back out into an overcast sky with light rain. There was snow mixed with the rain, and the wind was blowing 25 mph. I pulled back into the garage, turned on the radio, and discovered that the weather would be bad throughout the day. I went back into the house, quietly undressed, and slipped back into bed. There I cuddled up to my wife's back (now with a different anticipation) and whispered, "The weather out there is terrible." My loving wife of many years replied, "Can you believe my stupid husband is out flying in that?" I still don't know if she was joking. Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:59:22 PM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: Kolb-List: Wing Incidence and AOA on a MkIII Gang, With all this AOA (wing incidence) talk lately, I thought I'd hang my wings on the fuselage for the first time in at least 8 years!!! A little background for those that care. I bought this MkIII C from Kolb back in Nov 98. I worked on it for about a year and was almost finished with the plane itself, with only the fabric left to complete. Fuselage was covered, panel and gauges finished, all frame components and flight controls hooked up and functional. Engine and propeller fully running. Life, and a couple of moves got in the way, and I wasn't able to finish. Add to this that I bought a GlaStar to work on, and the poor MkIII really "doesn't get any respect!!" (Became the main candidate for the back-burner!) Fortunately, life has given me a chance to play with the Kolb for a year. Last June, I decided before I proceed any further forward with the MkIII Classic, I elected to do a major "make-over"....and convert my MkIII into an Xtra (or a reasonable facsimile). Back to the present; after hanging the wings today, and using my NEW SUPER- DUPER DIGITAL LEVEL, it appears as though my wings may be set at about 8 degree incidence. Rereading the book (after blowing off the dust), double checking my results, and really pondering where I went wrong, I think I have found the culprit!! It's not the wings at all, but it is the tailfeathers. It appears that the leading edge of the horizontal stabilizers are attached to the boom-tube a tad bit too high. Why does this matter? Because to take the "wing incidence" reading, you are supposed to "level" the horizontal stabilizers......and the more the stabilizers are "too high" in front.....the more you have to raise the tail, to level them. The more you raise the tail...the less the incidence on the main wings. So, it appears in my case I do one of two things: 1) Don't sweat it, crappy quality is always acceptable when it comes to airplanes, especially if you fly them personally or 2) Drill out and remove those big rivets, and remount the leading edges of the hor. stabs where it should have been in the first place Gee, which should it be? I think I'll drill out those monsterous rivets, and do it right. Only this time, I'll have a digital level to make sure it's gnat's patootey close, before I drill holes. I'm going on the assumption that whoever said Homer designed the incidence right knew what he was talking about. Otherwise, option 1) is so much easier to live with...kind of like the "horseshoes and hand grenades" simile. Mike Welch Kolb MkIII CX Do Not Archive _________________________________________________________________ Shed those extra pounds with MSN and The Biggest Loser! http://biggestloser.msn.com/ ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:13:05 PM PST US From: Ron Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Redrive VW on Kolbs Update Richard have you seen the liquid cooled heads that Great Plaines had or has? I visited their web site a few minutes ago and cannot find their liquid cooled heads. Wonder what happened... Ron (Texas) =========================== ---- Richard & Martha Neilsen wrote: ============ Wow that is a ridicules price. I have to believe that this is a engine package not just the engine and also might be the 100HP 912. The last price I heard from the US distributor in November and it was $18,000 for the 100HP engine only. The important thing is that the 912 series engines are way over priced. The redrive VW is a virtual match for the 912 series. The engine Rick Lewis is putting on his plane has the potential of out performing the 100HP rotax if he chooses to. The reliability could suffer with high power continues usage but only time will tell where significant reliability suffers. My air-cooled heads tend to over heat when pushed for very long above 80HP. I have an article being scheduled for the April issue in the EAA's Spot Pilot & Light-Sport Aircraft Magazine. It is called "Quest for Affordable Power". The timing couldn't be better. I talk about the VW engine package being $10,000 less than the 80HP rotax. Based on this new price, the difference will be much greater. I'm also pushing Great Planes Aircraft and New Kolb to communicate and maybe offer a engine package. The only remaining part that isn't off the shelf is an exhaust system that I'm try to get someone to produce it. I'm still trying to tune a prop for best overall performance. Last year I choose to pitch my prop for cruise performance at 3200 RPM. My climb out was in the 3400-3500 range depending on speed. The ideal climb RPM would be around 3800 RPM where climb rates would be spectacular with maybe 20 more HP. The Redrive VW even with the current prop and pitch is close to 912 performance. I have had the prop cut down by an inch to 71 inch diameter and will report the results when I get back to Michigan in the spring. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIC ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Lewis" Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 8:05 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: 503 on MK-3 > > I found out the other day, from Travis at Kolb, the latest price for a > Rotax 912 is $21,000. So much for a reasonable price engine from them. > There engines are good but NOT that good. [Rolling Eyes] > > > Rick Lewis > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163385#163385 > > > -- kugelair.com ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 04:25:37 PM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Wing AOA on Kolb MK III? At 01:36 PM 2/11/2008, grantr wrote: >I think I know what your talking about however I don't see how the leading >edge effects wing AOA that much. > >What kind of airfoil does the kolb have? The leading edge of the Kolb airfoils are formed by the front spar, which is a relatively small diameter tubing tangent to the lower surface. AOA is, of course, measured from the chord line, which is the line running from the frontmost point on the wing (about the middle of that tube) to the trailing edge. On a more conventional airfoil, the leading edge radius is both larger, which puts that frontmost point higher relative to the lower surface, and additionally the lower surface usually starts to curve up to meet the leading edge radius, so angle between the chord line and the lower surface is greater. The upshot of all this is that at the same lower surface angle, the Kolb airfoil's AOA will be less than a more conventional airfoil, or, conversely, at the same true AOA, the Kolb _looks_ like it's at a higher AOA. I could be wrong, but I'd guess the Kolbs use a TLAR airfoil ("That Looks About Right"), with its shape based as much on the materials and construction technique used as on aerodynamics. The result is a high camber airfoil, good for low speed and climb, not so great for speed. FWIW, the early Quicksilvers had a "670-15" airfoil, which was made by bending a thin aluminum tube for one-half of it's length over a 670-15 car tire; it was about 12% camber. -Dana -- Nowadays only a lawyer can tell legal from illegal, and the lawyers don't know the difference between right and wrong. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 04:38:56 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Wing AOA on Kolb MK III? From: "grantr" Well just take all those aerodynamics and throw them in the trash! LOL TLAR usually works very well. It does on my R/C airplane. Wow I didn't know that about the Quicksilvers. I looked at my wing on my MK III when I got home and it appears to be a completely flat bottom wing. Its hard to tell in the trailer. I think flat bottoms do make more lift than cambered bottom wings. It also adds more drag I think. Thanks Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163597#163597 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 04:43:55 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Redrive VW on Kolbs Update From: "cspoke" Rick and all, I am building a Mark 111 Xtra and will be using the VW for power. I ordered the engine mount from Kolb and I am in the process of welding it on my frame now. I was a very straight forward retrofit and I am very pleased with it. I talked to Steve at Great Plains today and asked him about the liquid cooled heads. He said that the company that made them discontinued because of lack of interest. Too bad, I think that they had a good idea. I will keep you all posted on my progress. I hope to have it flying this summer. Rick, keep me posted on your results with the props. I would be very interested in your findings. Maybe as more kolbers decide to use the VW, Great Plains and Kolb will start producing engine packages. -------- Craig Spoke Mark 111 Xtra (in the works) Lillian, AL cspoke@gulftel.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163600#163600 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 05:49:04 PM PST US From: "Richard Girard" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Wing Incidence and AOA on a MkIII Mike, before drilling out any rivets, check with TNK. It seems to me that the MkIIIX they had on display at Sun n Fun had new brackets for attaching the horizontal stabilizer that had three holes for trim adjustment. I could be wrong, it's been almost a year. Next I went out to the hangar and checked how my horizontal stab relates to my wings when the bottom is at 9 degrees. The horizontal stab is 2 degrees 40 minutes up at the leading edge of the stab. Mine flies just fine and has no problem rotating for take off. I don't think you have a problem. Fly it first and then make changes if you need to. I think you'll be fine. Rick On Feb 11, 2008 5:56 PM, Mike Welch wrote: > > > Gang, > > With all this AOA (wing incidence) talk lately, I thought I'd hang my > wings on the fuselage for the first time in at least 8 years!!! > > A little background for those that care. I bought this MkIII C from Kolb > back in Nov 98. I worked on it for about a year and was almost finished > with the plane itself, with only the fabric left to complete. Fuselage was > covered, panel and gauges finished, all frame components and flight controls > hooked up and functional. Engine and propeller fully running. > Life, and a couple of moves got in the way, and I wasn't able to finish. > Add to this that I bought a GlaStar to work on, and the poor MkIII really > "doesn't get any respect!!" (Became the main candidate for the > back-burner!) > Fortunately, life has given me a chance to play with the Kolb for a year. > Last June, I decided before I proceed any further forward with the MkIII > Classic, I elected to do a major "make-over"....and convert my MkIII into an > Xtra (or a reasonable facsimile). > > Back to the present; after hanging the wings today, and using my NEW > SUPER- DUPER DIGITAL LEVEL, it appears as though my wings may be set at > about 8 degree incidence. Rereading the book (after blowing off the dust), > double checking my results, and really pondering where I went wrong, I > think I have found the culprit!! > > It's not the wings at all, but it is the tailfeathers. It appears that > the leading edge of the horizontal stabilizers are attached to the boom-tube > a tad bit too high. > Why does this matter? Because to take the "wing incidence" reading, you > are supposed to "level" the horizontal stabilizers......and the more the > stabilizers are "too high" in front.....the more you have to raise the tail, > to level them. The more you raise the tail...the less the incidence on the > main wings. > > So, it appears in my case I do one of two things: > > 1) Don't sweat it, crappy quality is always acceptable when it comes to > airplanes, especially if you fly them personally > or > 2) Drill out and remove those big rivets, and remount the leading edges of > the hor. stabs where it should have been in the first place > > Gee, which should it be? I think I'll drill out those monsterous rivets, > and do it right. Only this time, I'll have a digital level to make sure > it's gnat's patootey close, before I drill holes. > > I'm going on the assumption that whoever said Homer designed the > incidence right knew what he was talking about. Otherwise, option 1) is so > much easier to live with...kind of like the "horseshoes and hand grenades" > simile. > > Mike Welch Kolb MkIII CX > > Do Not Archive > _________________________________________________________________ > Shed those extra pounds with MSN and The Biggest Loser! > http://biggestloser.msn.com/ > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:59:28 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Cleaning up a Mark-III I have thought that this was an interference area. My thoughts are to add two or three larger type vortex generators to each side so that the air will spin and climb to the area of the prop for more prop efficiency. Easy to try. Vic in Sacramento ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:18:18 PM PST US From: "Denny Rowe" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Wing Incidence and AOA on a MkIII > I'm going on the assumption that whoever said Homer designed the > incidence right knew what he was talking about. Otherwise, option 1) is > so much easier to live with...kind of like the "horseshoes and hand > grenades" simile. > > Mike Welch Kolb MkIII CX > > Do Not Archive > Mike, I am the one who said that Homer got it right, but I agree with Richard Girard that you are probably close enough, after all no one had digital levels when Homer built his first plane. These birds are not as critical as an F-22 so I'm quite sure your plane will fly as advertised. If it needs a little fine tuning, you can always install the adjustable front mounts later. Denny Rowe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.