Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:51 AM - Re: Kolb Laser? (Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL)
2. 09:22 AM - Re: Re: Kolb Laser? (robert bean)
3. 10:36 AM - Re: Re: 447 exhaust temperarures (Richard Girard)
4. 12:23 PM - Exhaust Temps (TK)
5. 02:22 PM - Re: Exhaust Temps (Ralph B)
6. 03:11 PM - Re: Re: Exhaust Temps (TK)
7. 03:17 PM - MkIII Xtra (Mike Welch)
8. 03:20 PM - Re: Exhaust Temps (JetPilot)
9. 04:13 PM - Re: MkIII Xtra (JetPilot)
10. 07:44 PM - Re: Re: 447 exhaust temperarures (DAquaNut@aol.com)
11. 07:57 PM - Re: Exhaust Temps (DAquaNut@aol.com)
12. 09:20 PM - Re: Re: 447 exhaust temperarures (Richard Girard)
13. 09:46 PM - Re: Re: 447 exhaust temperarures (DAquaNut@aol.com)
14. 11:00 PM - Off UL Topic - Looking for source of reduction motor (jerb)
Message 1
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<< So what happened? Was TNK simply not interested in developing or
Marketing the design? -Dana ... I don't know why TNK did not develop the
Laser. john h >>
New Kolb has set up a website that talks about "resurrecting" the Laser
design. There, they say that the original Laser was not continued
because of the overly-complex nature of the steel tube fuselage
structure. Too labor-intensive to be cost effective.
Dennis Kirby
Do not archive.
Message 2
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-An idea for a fun project: obtain a MkII that "needs a little work"
and convert it to a biplane. A compression piece would have to be
welded between the
lower aft attach points, an interplane strut made, root rib and
fuselage intersection
wedge piece.
Whatta head turner!
BB
do not archive
On 13, Feb 2008, at 11:48 AM, Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL wrote:
> <Dennis.Kirby@kirtland.af.mil>
>
>
> << So what happened? Was TNK simply not interested in developing or
> Marketing the design? -Dana ... I don't know why TNK did not
> develop the
> Laser. john h >>
>
> New Kolb has set up a website that talks about "resurrecting" the
> Laser
> design. There, they say that the original Laser was not continued
> because of the overly-complex nature of the steel tube fuselage
> structure. Too labor-intensive to be cost effective.
>
> Dennis Kirby
> Do not archive.
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: 447 exhaust temperarures |
Ed, I'll go on record with the others who have recommended that before you
do anything else you set the jets and needles back to stock. Record and
report back what your results are.
By going back to stock I mean setting the idle screw jet at .5 turns out, a
165 main jet, 2.70 needle jet and a 15K2 jet needle with the clip set at the
#2 position from the top as specified in the Bing manual and the Rotax
Illustrated Parts Catalog (page 9.3.1-7).
Check the carburetor boot for cracks and that the clamps are properly
tightened.
Check the spark plugs that they are the right type (B8ES) and correct gap
(.018") and the caps are 5K ohm resistance and fit on the plug with a snap.
Check the fan belt tension. If you have run the engine more than 10 hours it
probably needs adjustment.
On the 447 I set up on a trike last October I set the prop to give 6200 RPM
static which resulted in 6500 WOT in level flight.
After breakin the engine would approach 450 degrees on full throttle climb
out and settled down to 380 during cruise at 5500 RPM.
Per Rotax Operation Manual, page 10-1 CHT's measured at the spark plug seat
have a max of 500 degrees F and a normal operating range of 374 to 446
degrees F. Differences between cylinders are 36 degrees F max.
As for EGT's, Rotax gives no recommendations for the 447, although the 503
max EGT is 1200 degrees.
These condiditons will give you a baseline from which to start. If you just
start changing things you are probably headed for grief.
Just my opinion, yours may vary.
Rick
On Feb 12, 2008 9:59 PM, <DAquaNut@aol.com> wrote:
> In a message dated 2/12/2008 12:42:26 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> orcabonita@hotmail.com writes:
>
> More pitch = lower temps and was the most effective at controlling temps
> and resulted in the smoothest running engine. BTW 1000 EGT on climbout is
> fine, it can even be a down in the 900's in climb without a problem., dont
> expect to be seeing the same temps on cruise and climbout, they will change
> a lot.
>
> 1175 is to high in cruise, put some more pitch in your prop, just
> increasing the prop pitch for 100 RPM less static RPM will bring that cruise
> temp right down to where you want it. My static RPM is very close to 6000
> RPM.
>
> Mike
>
> More pitch= lower EGTS More pitch= higher CHTS When I
> add pitch it causes my Chts to go up around 400* I need a balance between
> EGTS and CHTS. DO I go up on my main jets until my hot spots dont go over
> 1175 * It gets the hottest around 4000 rpm and 5000 rpm. I just dont
> want to creat a situation that causes excess carbon. There is another guy
> here running 180 main jets in his 447 in a J-3 Kitten. I think I Think
> I am going to raise my main jet size until it does not get above 1175* at
> anytime. My plugs are very light in color and I have had the engine run a
> little rough and when I pull the enrichener the roughness smoothed out
> .
>
>
> Ed FF # 62
>
>
> ------------------------------
> The year's hottest artists on the red carpet at the Grammy Awards. AOL
> Music takes you there.<http://music.aol.com/grammys?NCID=aolcmp00300000002565>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 4
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Ed,
One important thing you want to consider with all of the advise your
receiving from the "experts" is just how much time have they put on
their 447 without breaking it down! Are they willing to tell you ? I
listen to a real 2 cycle pro!!
795 hr.s without breakdown or de-carboning and going strong!
Terry - Firefly #95
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Exhaust Temps |
tkrolfe(at)toast.net"]
>
>
> Ed,
>
> One important thing you want to consider with all of the advise your receiving
from the "experts" is just how much time have they put on their 447 without
breaking it down! Are they willing to tell you ? I listen to a real 2 cycle
pro!!
>
> 795 hr.s without breakdown or de-carboning and going strong!
>
> Terry - Firefly #95
Terry, I'll bet you are an avid user of Seafoam ... [Laughing]
do not archive
--------
Ralph B
Original Firestar
N91493 E-AB
21 years flying it
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163913#163913
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Exhaust Temps |
Ralph B wrote:
>
> tkrolfe(at)toast.net"]
>
>> Ed,
>>
>> One important thing you want to consider with all of the advise your receiving
from the "experts" is just how much time have they put on their 447 without
breaking it down! Are they willing to tell you ? I listen to a real 2 cycle
pro!!
>>
>> 795 hr.s without breakdown or de-carboning and going strong!
>>
>> Terry - Firefly #95
>>
>
>
> Terry, I'll bet you are an avid user of Seafoam ... [Laughing]
>
> do not archive
>
> --------
> Ralph B
> Original Firestar
> N91493 E-AB
> 21 years flying it
>
Ralph B,
Now you've done it !!!!!! You let out my "secret" and nobody is going
to listen to me now. Not they they were going to anyway, Darn that
stuff taste funny! ;-)
Terry - FireFly #95
Message 7
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MkIII Xtra owners,
Could I get someone who owns an (assembled, but doesn't have to be flyable yet)
Xtra to contact me OFF list. I've got a itty bitty favor to ask of you.
(to measure something on your plane with a digital level).
I'd sure appreciate it.
Mike Welch
MkIII
Do Not Archive
_________________________________________________________________
Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Exhaust Temps |
[quote="tkrolfe(at)toast.net"]Ed,
One important thing you want to consider with all of the advise your receiving
from the "experts" is just how much time have they put on their 447 without breaking
it down! Are they willing to tell you ? I listen to a real 2 cycle
pro!!
795 hr.s without breakdown or de-carboning and going strong!
Terry - Firefly #95
> [b]
You have my attention, but you did not give any advice or techniques... If you
have some good advice, by all means publish it here so we can compare setups
and results.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163917#163917
Message 9
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I happen to have both a MK III Xtra and a digital level, I sent you an email.
Forecast is looking good tomorrow, I plan on flying :) I can measure anything
you need while I am at the hangar.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=163925#163925
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: 447 exhaust temperarures |
In a message dated 2/13/2008 12:37:29 P.M. Central Standard Time,
jindoguy@gmail.com writes:
On the 447 I set up on a trike last October I set the prop to give 6200 RPM
static which resulted in 6500 WOT in level flight.
After breakin the engine would approach 450 degrees on full throttle climb
out and settled down to 380 during cruise at 5500 RPM.
Per Rotax Operation Manual, page 10-1 CHT's measured at the spark plug seat
have a max of 500 degrees F and a normal operating range of 374 to 446
degrees F. Differences between cylinders are 36 degrees F max.
As for EGT's, Rotax gives no recommendations for the 447, although the 503
max EGT is 1200 degrees.
These condiditons will give you a baseline from which to start. If you just
start changing things you are probably headed for grief.
Just my opinion, yours may vary.
Rick
My 447 has never seen CHTS higher than 400*. If you are suggesting its ok
to run with the heads at 400* I can put in more pitch which will cool the
CHTS quite a bit I am certain ,but I am fearful of running with 400* CHTS as I
Know of a guy that had a 503 seize at 400* CHTS. I seem to have higher EGTS
now that I am forced to run 10% alcohol, as that is all that is available in
Houston.
Ed
**************The year's hottest artists on the red carpet at the Grammy
Awards. Go to AOL Music.
(http://music.aol.com/grammys?NCID=aolcmp00300000002565)
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Exhaust Temps |
In a message dated 2/13/2008 2:24:25 P.M. Central Standard Time,
tkrolfe@toast.net writes:
795 hr.s without breakdown or de-carboning and going strong!
Terry - Firefly #95
Terry,
I cant argue with your success. So far your are doing
something right obviously ! What are your lowest EGT readings? What are your
highest CHT readings? Oh by the way I built 3 pair of the 4130 gear legs per
your prints and had em hardened to Rockwell 47. I figured I would have needed
them by now the way everyone was bending aluminum ones when I was still
building. So far I havent needed them with over 300 landings. Those alum gear
legs are tougher than I was led to believe by others on the list. Its comforting
to know there is some forgiveness with the alum legs.
Ed FF #62
**************The year's hottest artists on the red carpet at the Grammy
Awards. Go to AOL Music.
(http://music.aol.com/grammys?NCID=aolcmp00300000002565)
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: 447 exhaust temperarures |
Ed, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but more pitch should send the CHT
readings up, not down. More pitch would bring the EGT's down.
If you still have a calibrated iron from covering you can check the CHT
sender to see if it's working properly. Or borrow a laser thermometer and
check the readings you're getting with that.
Rick
On Feb 13, 2008 9:40 PM, <DAquaNut@aol.com> wrote:
> In a message dated 2/13/2008 12:37:29 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> jindoguy@gmail.com writes:
>
> On the 447 I set up on a trike last October I set the prop to give 6200
> RPM static which resulted in 6500 WOT in level flight.
> After breakin the engine would approach 450 degrees on full throttle climb
> out and settled down to 380 during cruise at 5500 RPM.
> Per Rotax Operation Manual, page 10-1 CHT's measured at the spark plug
> seat have a max of 500 degrees F and a normal operating range of 374 to 446
> degrees F. Differences between cylinders are 36 degrees F max.
> As for EGT's, Rotax gives no recommendations for the 447, although the 503
> max EGT is 1200 degrees.
> These condiditons will give you a baseline from which to start. If you
> just start changing things you are probably headed for grief.
> Just my opinion, yours may vary.
>
> Rick
>
> My 447 has never seen CHTS higher than 400*. If you are
> suggesting its ok to run with the heads at 400* I can put in more pitch
> which will cool the CHTS quite a bit I am certain ,but I am fearful of
> running with 400* CHTS as I Know of a guy that had a 503 seize at 400*
> CHTS. I seem to have higher EGTS now that I am forced to run 10% alcohol,
> as that is all that is available in Houston.
>
>
> Ed
>
>
> ------------------------------
> The year's hottest artists on the red carpet at the Grammy Awards. AOL
> Music takes you there.<http://music.aol.com/grammys?NCID=aolcmp00300000002565>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: 447 exhaust temperarures |
In a message dated 2/13/2008 11:20:52 P.M. Central Standard Time,
jindoguy@gmail.com writes:
Ed, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but more pitch should send the CHT
readings up, not down. More pitch would bring the EGT's down.
If you still have a calibrated iron from covering you can check the CHT
sender to see if it's working properly. Or borrow a laser thermometer and check
the readings you're getting with that.
Rick
My mistake Rick! I intended to say more pitch will cool my EGTS. My head
temps go up with more pitch. With the Ivo pitched for 6250 RPM I am seeing
350-375* CHTS If I increase the pitch to bring down egts my heads go up around
400* or so. I guess I will crank in a little more pitch and see what happens.
Ed
**************The year's hottest artists on the red carpet at the Grammy
Awards. Go to AOL Music.
(http://music.aol.com/grammys?NCID=aolcmp00300000002565)
Message 14
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| Subject: | Off UL Topic - Looking for source of reduction motor |
Hi Folks,
The scroungers that we ultralighters are, I'm leaning upon your
knowledge for a source for a electric 120VAC fraction HP motor (say
of 1/5-1/4) with a gear reduction unit on it. Would like to get down
to around 12 RPM. Might be required to do one more step down using a
chain drive.
I need a cheap source for one or two of these for the purpose of
building a soda/beer can crusher. My other option which is easy to
do is using a pneumatic air cylinder but then I have to have a
compressed air source available to use it.
There are devices called activators that might work if I could find a
source and figure out how to properly select one. Require a
stroke/slide movement some where around 5-1/2 to 6". Some times these
used for flap extension.
Look on youtube.com and search for video on can crushers if your
interested. Like airplanes, some implementations are better than others.
Any leads would be appreciated/ Could find cylinders but couldn't
find anything cheap in motors that met my needs on eBay.
Thanks,
jerb
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