---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 02/17/08: 60 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:44 AM - Re: Test email (David Lucas) 2. 03:46 AM - Re: New use for ladders. You got to see this! (pj.ladd) 3. 05:53 AM - Re: Re: Finally flying my MK III!!! (John Hauck) 4. 06:25 AM - Re: Re: Test email (Russ Kinne) 5. 06:28 AM - Re: Re: Test email (russ kinne) 6. 06:55 AM - Re: Re: Finally flying my MK III!!! (Dana Hague) 7. 07:18 AM - Re: Re: Finally flying my MK III!!! (robert bean) 8. 07:20 AM - Re: Finally flying my MK III!!! (Thom Riddle) 9. 07:38 AM - Re: Finally flying my MK III!!! (grantr) 10. 07:39 AM - Re: Re: Test email (Richard Girard) 11. 07:40 AM - Re: Re: Finally flying my MK III!!! (John Hauck) 12. 07:46 AM - Re: Re: Test email (John Hauck) 13. 07:50 AM - Re: Re: Finally flying my MK III!!! (John Hauck) 14. 08:17 AM - Re: Re: Test email (Ron) 15. 08:27 AM - Re: Finally flying my MK III!!! (JetPilot) 16. 08:33 AM - Re: Re: Finally flying my MK III!!! (possums) 17. 08:35 AM - Re: New use for ladders. You got to see this! (JetPilot) 18. 08:35 AM - Re: Finally flying my MK III!!! (Thom Riddle) 19. 08:43 AM - Re: Finally flying my MK III!!! (JetPilot) 20. 08:48 AM - Re: Finally flying my MK III!!! (Thom Riddle) 21. 08:59 AM - Re: Finally flying my MK III!!! (JetPilot) 22. 09:13 AM - Re: draft (boyd) 23. 09:13 AM - Re: draft (boyd) 24. 10:03 AM - Re: Test email (Ron Hoyt) 25. 10:03 AM - Re: Exhaust Temps (TK) 26. 11:23 AM - Re: Test email (Ron Hoyt) 27. 11:26 AM - Re: Re: Test email (robert bean) 28. 11:38 AM - Re: Exhaust Temps (TK) 29. 11:51 AM - Re: Test email (Bob Noyer) 30. 12:44 PM - Re: Re: Finally flying my MK III!!! (Eugene Zimmerman) 31. 12:45 PM - Re: Re: Finally flying my MK III!!! (Richard & Martha Neilsen) 32. 01:11 PM - Re: Exhaust Temps (DAquaNut@aol.com) 33. 01:15 PM - Re: Exhaust Temps (DAquaNut@aol.com) 34. 02:06 PM - Re: Re: New use for ladders. You got to see this! (Russ Kinne) 35. 02:06 PM - Re: Re: Test email (russ kinne) 36. 02:09 PM - Re: Re: Finally flying my MK III!!! (John Hauck) 37. 03:14 PM - Re: Re: Finally flying my MK III!!! (Eugene Zimmerman) 38. 03:17 PM - Re: Re: Test email (Mike Welch) 39. 04:05 PM - Vg's (william sullivan) 40. 04:35 PM - Re: Vg's (Larry Bourne) 41. 04:48 PM - Re: Re: Finally flying my MK III!!! (John Hauck) 42. 04:50 PM - Re: Re: Finally flying my MK III!!! (Dana Hague) 43. 04:50 PM - Re: Re: Finally flying my MK III!!! (Dana Hague) 44. 04:55 PM - Re: Exhaust Temps (Dana Hague) 45. 04:56 PM - Re: Vg's (beauford T) 46. 05:07 PM - Re: Vg's (John Hauck) 47. 05:14 PM - Re: Exhaust Temps (TK) 48. 05:41 PM - Re: Re: Finally flying my MK III!!! (possums) 49. 05:55 PM - Re: Vg's (beauford T) 50. 06:54 PM - Re: Re: Finally flying my MK III!!! (herb) 51. 06:56 PM - Re: Re: New use for ladders. You got to see this! (herb) 52. 07:07 PM - Re: Finally flying my MK III!!! (grantr) 53. 07:35 PM - Re: Re:ASI (DAquaNut@aol.com) 54. 07:57 PM - ASI (william sullivan) 55. 08:32 PM - Re: Re: Test email (Ron) 56. 08:42 PM - Re: Re: Test email (Richard Girard) 57. 08:53 PM - Re: Vg's (Richard Girard) 58. 08:59 PM - Credit for page 8 photo in EAA chapter 88's newsletter (Richard Girard) 59. 10:58 PM - Re: Finally flying my MK III!!! (JetPilot) 60. 11:08 PM - Re: Vg's (JetPilot) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:44:18 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Test email From: "David Lucas" What's the problem with having Silicates present in your cleaning gear , Your Ajax's and Bon Ami's etc. ? Paint surface preparation perhaps ? David. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164535#164535 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:46:46 AM PST US From: "pj.ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: New use for ladders. You got to see this! this is a takeoff on the French "Flying Flea" or 'pou de ciel' design from way back, 30's?>> Hi Russ, interesting set of pics. There were many Flying fleas built in Europe by rank amateurs. Unfortunately they had a basic flaw in that you could get into what we now call a `deep stall, caused by the fixed lower wing blanking out the tail feathers. After a series of crashes they were banned in theUK although a number flew on the Continent..This was unfortunate as several crashes were not caused by the plane at all but by the fact that the `pilots` had never learned to fly. I remember seeing one flying as a kid. and was very impressed by the large `30 HP` written across the front of the fuselage. The grandson of the original designer now produces a modern version. It is a bit of an abortion with an odd control system connected I think by bicycle chains. Its a biplane and draggy as hell. Nevertheless there are several which have flown from France to take part in one of our English `fly ins`. Rather them than me. Hows the sailing? has Spring arived yet?. I have been in Tenerife in bright sunshine for the last two weeks. Now back in the UK where the temps last night were supposed to get down to minus 6 (C) but it is a glorious day, frosty but nil wind and sunny. I should be flying but I am hopped up on pain killers waiting to go into hospital tomorrow for an epidural followed I am afraid by an spinal op if that doesnt work. Fingers crossed. This is all brought on by the recurrence of a disc injury caused by carrying a glider wing 35 years ago. Life bites you in the bum, doesn`t it Cheers Pat ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:53:44 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Finally flying my MK III!!! > I put about 140 VG's on my wings, from the center right out to the very tips of the wings. Its critical to install them very precisely, but if you do you will be well rewarded. > > Mike Mike B: Has a critically precise location been established for placement of VG's on Kolb wings? Of note when determining stall speeds in Kolbs. Kolbs are notorious for creating a low pressure area in the cockpit. If your pressure gauges are not being fed an accurate source of static pressure, indications will be wrong. It does not take much static pressure error to indicate large airspeed errors. Most Kolb aircraft I have flown in this situation have air speed indicators that are at least10 mph fast. In days past, I flew with a very accurate Winter Venturi Operated Air Speed Indicator on my Ultrastar and Firestar. This airspeed indicator was designed for gliders and is extremely accurate, especially at slow speeds, since we take "static pressure" out of the equation. My US and FS both stalled at exactly 25 mph indicated. As long as the needle was on 25 mph it was flying. Let the needle drop a needle width below 25 and they were mushing. My mkIII stalls between 30 and 35 mph at altitude. It breaks as the needle is going through 30 in ground effect. Why is there such a large difference, 15 to 20 mph, in stall speeds between these three aircraft and Kolbs being flown today? I build heavy airplanes, normally flown with a lot of barn dust on top of wings and tail surfaces. john h mkIII ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:25:50 AM PST US From: Russ Kinne Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Test email Roger Thanks for correcting me. I obviously didn't know that. But I DO know that Bon Ami doesn't scratch & the others do That 'some amount of feldspar' must be small. On Feb 17, 2008, at 12:26 AM, R. Hankins wrote: > > Russ, > I checked the MSDS for Bon Ami. It contains calcium carbonate, > sodium carbonate and some amount of feldspar. The feldspars are a > very broad family of minerals, but they have one thing in common. > They are all silicates. > > Here is a link to the info I looked at: > http://www.galleries.com/minerals/silicate/feldspar.htm > > Just FYI... > Do not Archive > > -------- > Roger in Oregon > 1992 KXP 503 - N1782C > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164524#164524 > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:28:32 AM PST US From: russ kinne Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Test email In my experience , scratching the surface On Feb 17, 2008, at 6:41 AM, David Lucas wrote: > > What's the problem with having Silicates present in your cleaning > gear , Your Ajax's and Bon Ami's etc. ? Paint surface preparation > perhaps ? > > David. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164535#164535 > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:55:49 AM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Finally flying my MK III!!! At 08:50 AM 2/17/2008, John Hauck wrote: >Of note when determining stall speeds in Kolbs. Kolbs are notorious for >creating a low pressure area in the cockpit. If your pressure gauges are >not being fed an accurate source of static pressure, indications will be >wrong. It does not take much static pressure error to indicate large >airspeed errors. Most Kolb aircraft I have flown in this situation have >air speed indicators that are at least10 mph fast. I don't have a "cockpit" on my US, but yes, it stalled at an indicated 35 mph. The previous owner hadn't connected the ASI's static port so it was just reading the low pressure inside the instrument pod. Every time I moved my foot the reading changed. Making a proper concentric pitot/static tube fixed that, though I still have to calibrate it a bit better. Anybody know how accurate the old Hall (floating disk) airspeed indicators are? I borrowed one from a friend to check my ASI, but cold weather has kept me from getting a chance to mount it yet. -Dana -- Of all the forces in the world, only the Federal Government has enough power left to destroy America. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:18:43 AM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Finally flying my MK III!!! Dana, that feature could be handy, a life-saver in fact! If you feel you are about to stall just move your foot a little and resume flying. Patent applied for. BB do not archive On 17, Feb 2008, at 9:50 AM, Dana Hague wrote: > > At 08:50 AM 2/17/2008, John Hauck wrote: > >> Of note when determining stall speeds in Kolbs. Kolbs are >> notorious for creating a low pressure area in the cockpit. If >> your pressure gauges are not being fed an accurate source of >> static pressure, indications will be wrong. It does not take much >> static pressure error to indicate large airspeed errors. Most >> Kolb aircraft I have flown in this situation have air speed >> indicators that are at least10 mph fast. > > I don't have a "cockpit" on my US, but yes, it stalled at an > indicated 35 mph. The previous owner hadn't connected the ASI's > static port so it was just reading the low pressure inside the > instrument pod. Every time I moved my foot the reading changed. > Making a proper concentric pitot/static tube fixed that, though I > still have to calibrate it a bit better. > > Anybody know how accurate the old Hall (floating disk) airspeed > indicators are? I borrowed one from a friend to check my ASI, but > cold weather has kept me from getting a chance to mount it yet. > > -Dana > -- > Of all the forces in the world, only the Federal Government has > enough power left to destroy America. > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:20:53 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Finally flying my MK III!!! From: "Thom Riddle" Mike, After I finish the repairs on my FS I, I plan to put VGs on it. You stated that precise location of the VGs is important. Since all the Kolb wings use the same airfoil (I've heard) I would think what works for the MkIII will work pretty well with the rest of the Kolbs. Would you post the details of your VG installation? Various Kolbers have posted their methods of locating their VGs but, I'd like to hear about yours too. -------- Thom Riddle N221FA Allegro 2000 912UL N197BG FS1/447 -------------------- Believe nothing, no matter where you read it or who has said it, not even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. - Buddha Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164558#164558 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:38:57 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Finally flying my MK III!!! From: "grantr" Not sure how to wheel land a sail plane but I think my instructors has the landings down. The 1st few test flights he was making the approaches at 60mph and on his 2nd landing the plane landed on the tail wheel 1st which then resulted in a rather hard main wheel landing! Luckily it didn't bent the gear! Almost all of or landings were at idle. Anyway he proceeded to approach a bit faster 65 to 70 and that resulted in feather like touchdowns on the mains 1st. I am interested in the VGs as well. Do you have a plan/ drawing to follow to make these? Did you use aluminum flashing material? I don't know where the static port is for the asi right now. I think it might be run under the seats. Where should it be located to correct the airspeed? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164563#164563 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:39:06 AM PST US From: "Richard Girard" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Test email Paint problems are caused by silicone. Once you get them on a surface, they can never be removed, only spread around. Rick On Feb 17, 2008 8:24 AM, russ kinne wrote: > > In my experience , scratching the surface > > > On Feb 17, 2008, at 6:41 AM, David Lucas wrote: > > > > > What's the problem with having Silicates present in your cleaning > > gear , Your Ajax's and Bon Ami's etc. ? Paint surface preparation > > perhaps ? > > > > David. > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164535#164535 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:40:17 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Finally flying my MK III!!! > Anybody know how accurate the old Hall (floating disk) airspeed indicators > are? I borrowed one from a friend to check my ASI, but cold weather has > kept me from getting a chance to mount it yet. > > -Dana Dana: If you have the bucks, this is the way to go for accurate airspeed indication. I notice the Winter Venturi ASI range is up to 100 mph. Back in the early 1980's range topped out at 75 mph. The price is about 5 times as much too. john h mkIII ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:46:55 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Test email But I DO know > that Bon Ami doesn't scratch & the others do Russ: Maybe you are laboring under the famous Bon Ami commercial, "Hasn't scratched yet!" I don't know of any scouring powders, in the Bon Ami league, that do not scratch. I believe if you go to an auto parts paint and refinishing house you will find there are infinite different types and grades of buffing, compounding, polishing materials. If I was going to work on airplane paint, I would choose to spend a couple bucks for the correct stuff and leave the Old Lady's kitchen stuff alone. john h mkIII ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:50:04 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Finally flying my MK III!!! > If you have the bucks, this is the way to go for accurate airspeed > indication. http://www.airstuff.com/eshop/10Expand.asp?ProductCode=WINASI-Venturi Before everybody gets their panties in a wad, here is the url I forgot to post in my last. jhauck mkIII ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:17:12 AM PST US From: Ron Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Test email That sounds odd to me Richard, why can't you get it off with say a sponge with a good rinse of running water? Ron (AZ,TX) =========================== ---- Richard Girard wrote: ============ Paint problems are caused by silicone. Once you get them on a surface, they can never be removed, only spread around. Rick On Feb 17, 2008 8:24 AM, russ kinne wrote: > > In my experience , scratching the surface > > > On Feb 17, 2008, at 6:41 AM, David Lucas wrote: > > > > > What's the problem with having Silicates present in your cleaning > > gear , Your Ajax's and Bon Ami's etc. ? Paint surface preparation > > perhaps ? > > > > David. > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164535#164535 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- kugelair.com ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:27:21 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Finally flying my MK III!!! From: "JetPilot" I have had an outside static source on my Kolb from the beginning, so there are no pressure errors in my system. I have also checked my airspeed readings with the GPS you see in the picture under no wind conditions, and again everything is accurate. Precise placement of the VG's has been determined by the manufacturer, they are not airplane specific, but its about the same for most general aviation airfoils. The angles of the VG's into the wind are especially critical as is thier design. I put them on exactly per the instructions, and the result was an incredible difference. You can get the VG's at: http://www.landshorter.com/ There is another Kolb MK III with a 912 based at my field, its "Fat Albert" as some of you remember that plane. The difference between landing that plane and landing my plane is huge, the other MK III has to be landed very fast, and with power to keep it from dropping hard onto the runway much the same as described by Grant. My MK III can be landed engine off, approaching at 50 MPH and result in a soft landing. The "Fat Albert" pilot could not believe the difference between the two MK III's. In a nutshell, the VG's eliminate the "Kolb Quit" where the plane just drops into the runway if you get it to slow. I generally do three point landings, but many times I touch the tailwheel first at less than 30 MPH indicated, no problem, the mains just come down very nicely. I will take some videos of this and post them on You Tube. Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164578#164578 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:33:12 AM PST US From: possums Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Finally flying my MK III!!! At 08:50 AM 2/17/2008, you wrote: > > > > I put about 140 VG's on my wings, from the center right out to > the very tips of the wings. Its critical to install them very > precisely, but if you do you will be well rewarded. >> >>Mike If you are going to use the "Landshorter" VG's you would naturally follow their instructions on where to put them, as they seem to have already done the wind tunnel tests and are selling them to the ultralight community knowing the type of planes we are putting them on. Mine are at the suggested 10% to 12% (of the cord of the wing - including the ailerons) back from the leading edge = about 6.5 inches as measured thru the cord. www.landshorter.com I went to an "auto paint store" and got the "good" double stick tape. Automotive Acrylic Plus Attachment Tape Stick it on the bottoms of the VGs, then cut around the edges with an exacto knife. When you putting them on your wings, you just pull the paper off the botton and stick them down. Haven lost one yet. The instructions say put them on 10 to 12% of the wing cord (including the ailerons) back from the leading edge. Too far forward and they will slow down the cruise speed, too far back and they become ineffective. I put mine about 11% or 6 1/2 inches back from the leading edge as measured through the middle of the cord of the wing - average cord. But you better check with the instructions. The instructions say VG's should be placed about 1% of the wingspan apart. I have a 27' 9" wing span. So I put two in each valley and used the 2.75 inch spacing guide to "kind of space them out" between each rib and false rib etc. Just a guess, but it seemed to work out OK. I used the guide they sent with the little "rectangles" cut out where the VG's go, so I could just stick them in the holes and move the guide to the next valley. I just put two on at a time and moved the guide to the next set of ribs. I used the T-square method like Ben Ransom for the set back It took more time to put the tape on each VG than it did to put the VGs on the plane. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:35:18 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: New use for ladders. You got to see this! From: "JetPilot" jb92563 wrote: > Russ, dare I ask how you know what flying ladder sounds like? [Laughing] > > Just wait until one of those ladders fatigues, breaks and results in a crash. Here in the US the family will probably sue the ladder manufacturer for not putting a warning on the ladder stating that they are " Not situable for use as aircraft structure. " and win millions of dollars. Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164579#164579 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:35:18 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Finally flying my MK III!!! From: "Thom Riddle" Mike, Many of us make our own VGs and would like to know the precise location (and angle) you used per the manufacturer's instructions. Will you give us this information? Of course, you are under no obligation to do so but, if I don't ask, I won't know. How about it? -------- Thom Riddle N221FA Allegro 2000 912UL N197BG FS1/447 -------------------- Believe nothing, no matter where you read it or who has said it, not even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. - Buddha Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164580#164580 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 08:43:50 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Finally flying my MK III!!! From: "JetPilot" Sure Tom, The angle into the wind is 15 degrees " Nose In " between each rib valley. Spacing is 2 1/2 inches all across the wing, but centered in each rib valley. They are placed 10 % of the chord back from the leading edge of the wing. I am flying at work right now, but if you like I will give you the measurements of the VG's when I get home. BTW, the VG's at www.landshorter.com are cheap, only 100 dollars per 100, and they are much nicer looking and stronger than I could ever make them. Attached is a picture of the VG's on my plane, I used about 140 of them. Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164582#164582 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/ultralightkolbmikezvgsfloridahomestead07_11_2007_176_438.jpg ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 08:48:04 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Finally flying my MK III!!! From: "Thom Riddle" Thanks, Possum. Very helpful. -------- Thom Riddle N221FA Allegro 2000 912UL N197BG FS1/447 -------------------- Believe nothing, no matter where you read it or who has said it, not even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. - Buddha Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164584#164584 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 08:59:05 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Finally flying my MK III!!! From: "JetPilot" One Correction, Possums is correct about the spacing being 10 % - 12 % of the wing cord back from the leading edge, I put them right in the middle at 11 %. Also, remember not to measure the curved part of the wing, that distance is straight back from the leading edge not measuring along the curve of the wing. I used a carpenters L up against the leading edge of the wing, with the side of the L parallel with the bottom of the wing to measure this distance. This way I could measure accurately how far back on the top of the wing without the curve in the airfoil throwing my measurement off. On the MK III the ribs are spaced at 5 inches apart, so 2 1/2 inches allows you to center them in the valleys and have constant spacing along the entire wing. You might have to vary the spacing just a hair between VG's from one valley to the next to get them in the middle each valley, but they recommend that each "Pair" be centered in each valley. Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164586#164586 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 09:13:38 AM PST US From: "boyd" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: draft Thanks John, I'll slice one side of some tube and slide it up the cable. -For peace of mind. BB >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>. Since the cable ends are already in place Find two 1 inch pieces of =BD inch pex tubing. Silicone together, wrap with safety wire, when you glue them together hold them at the correct crossing angle. When slid onto the cables they will find there own location where the cables cross. The cables should never bind, as the fitting is not anchored to either cable. boyd ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 09:13:39 AM PST US From: "boyd" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: draft The draft can be stopped easily by cutting a7inch circle out of 4in foam rubber on a band saw,and cutting appropriate slots for the cables and stuffing it in the tube at the rear end.My highly modified exhaust system on the Mk3w/jabiru was gassing me until that modification. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I considered the foam in the rear,,,,, but was concerned about what would happen to the cables if the foam got moisture in it.. So I cut a piece of covering fabric and glued it in the end of the tail boom. cut slits in it to pass the cable through.. the foam behind my head eliminated a lot of noise,,, that addition created comments like " your radio has never sounded better" besides that I can hear better. Boyd. ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 10:03:38 AM PST US From: Ron Hoyt Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Test email This is another test message. #3 I have yet to be able to reply to the list. Maybe this will work. Ron ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 10:03:52 AM PST US From: TK Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Exhaust Temps DAquaNut@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 2/16/2008 11:30:42 A.M. Central Standard Time, > tkrolfe@toast.net writes: > > > As my friend and 2 cycle Guru keeps telling me, over and over > again, look at your plugs and cylinder tops and you can tell whats > going on. He tells me not to chase the gauges. Of course you > have to learn what to look for! Also, if you take off your > exhaust Y once a year you can observe what's happening in there > and if your rings are free. > > Terry, > > My plugs are white with a hint of tan. I take that to indicate a > lean condition! I think my gauges are somewhat accurate. When the egt > gauge reads 1200+ the engine starts running rough. When I pull out the > enrichener the engine smoothes out and the egts drop. When the > weather clears I am going to put back the stock jets and put in a > little more pitch. It will be warm weather here before long and that > will make things a little richer also. I did a de -carbon at 50 hrs > and now have 78 hours on it! > > Ed Ed, Sounds like you are lean, now the question is why? Using the enrichener is a good way of telling that, should have mentioned that earlier. Getting back to stock is a good starting point. Do that before changing pitch, one thing at a time. Good luck solving the problem. Still have a problem with the decarbon thing at 50 hr.s. Who did the work and what gaskets were used to re-assemble? Terry - FireFly #95 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 11:23:21 AM PST US From: Ron Hoyt Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Test email Yup! this did it. Ron Ron Hoyt wrote: > This is another test message. #3 > I have yet to be able to reply to the list. Maybe this will work. > > Ron ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 11:26:46 AM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Test email In the 80s, before the widespread use of factory clearcoat there was a lot of that silicone stuff sold to make your old car look shiny. Car painters hated it. Very tough to get off and unless you did completely the new paint would peel right off in a couple of weeks. Sanding it would just push it deeper. After one bad experience I now scrub any car I want to paint with an extremely harsh HVAC coil cleaner rated detergent before any work starts. Use gloves. BB On 17, Feb 2008, at 11:14 AM, Ron wrote: > > That sounds odd to me Richard, why can't you get it off with say a > sponge with a good rinse of running water? > > Ron (AZ,TX) > > =========================== > > ---- Richard Girard wrote: > > ============ > Paint problems are caused by silicone. Once you get them on a > surface, they > can never be removed, only spread around. > > Rick > > On Feb 17, 2008 8:24 AM, russ kinne wrote: > >> >> In my experience , scratching the surface >> >> >> On Feb 17, 2008, at 6:41 AM, David Lucas wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> What's the problem with having Silicates present in your cleaning >>> gear , Your Ajax's and Bon Ami's etc. ? Paint surface preparation >>> perhaps ? >>> >>> David. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164535#164535 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > -- > kugelair.com > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 11:38:12 AM PST US From: TK Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Exhaust Temps TK wrote: > DAquaNut@aol.com wrote: >> In a message dated 2/16/2008 11:30:42 A.M. Central Standard Time, >> tkrolfe@toast.net writes: >> >> >> As my friend and 2 cycle Guru keeps telling me, over and over >> again, look at your plugs and cylinder tops and you can tell >> whats going on. He tells me not to chase the gauges. Of course >> you have to learn what to look for! Also, if you take off your >> exhaust Y once a year you can observe what's happening in there >> and if your rings are free. >> >> Terry, >> >> My plugs are white with a hint of tan. I take that to indicate a >> lean condition! I think my gauges are somewhat accurate. When the >> egt gauge reads 1200+ the engine starts running rough. When I pull >> out the enrichener the engine smoothes out and the egts drop. When >> the weather clears I am going to put back the stock jets and put in a >> little more pitch. It will be warm weather here before long and that >> will make things a little richer also. I did a de -carbon at 50 hrs >> and now have 78 hours on it! >> >> Ed > > Ed, > > Sounds like you are lean, now the question is why? Using the > enrichener is a good way of telling that, should have mentioned that > earlier. Getting back to stock is a good starting point. Do that > before changing pitch, one thing at a time. Good luck solving the > problem. Still have a problem with the decarbon thing at 50 hr.s. > Who did the work and what gaskets were used to re-assemble? > > Terry - FireFly #95 Ed, One more thought. Check your fuel bowl float level. If it is off it can cause a lean fuel situation in the mid range. Terry - FireFly #95 ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 11:51:01 AM PST US From: Bob Noyer Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Test email L&C here regards, Bob N. FireFly 070 Old Kolb http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/ronoy/ do not archive ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 12:44:05 PM PST US From: Eugene Zimmerman Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Finally flying my MK III!!! On Feb 17, 2008, at 8:50 AM, John Hauck wrote: > normally flown with a lot of barn dust on top of wings and tail > surfaces. Ah, but your barn dust must be strategically and critically precise located barn dust. < g > ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 12:45:43 PM PST US From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Finally flying my MK III!!! Grant Congratulations on your first flight. You are getting alot of information from some low time Kolb pilots and some of it is good. I'm also a low time Kolb pilot in comparison to John H and others. The information I would like to give you is Kolbs fly just fine as they were designed. VGs likely help but don't help as much as you are being led to believe. In a recent side by side fly off the difference wasn't real noticeable. John H correctly made a point that airspeed indicators in Kolbs can be inaccurate and at higher angles of attack they get even more so. The term I hear "kolb quit" is plain and simple a stall no matter how much these newbies want to believe otherwise. Our airplanes slow down very quickly when you flair for landing. This is a good thing but if your not ready for it, it will bite you. There are at least three ways to deal with it. Land faster, land with power, and/or flair closer to the ground. VGs will help some but it still takes airspeed to provide lift. Using flaps makes it slow down quicker so don't use them till you are proficient in your airplane. I almost always do three point landings and some times tail wheel first and usually grease it in. No I don't have VGs. Three point landings are easer for me and I land slower so.... As usual the advice is worth what you paid for it. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIC ----- Original Message ----- From: "JetPilot" Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 11:24 AM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Finally flying my MK III!!! > > I have had an outside static source on my Kolb from the beginning, so > there are no pressure errors in my system. I have also checked my > airspeed readings with the GPS you see in the picture under no wind > conditions, and again everything is accurate. > > Precise placement of the VG's has been determined by the manufacturer, > they are not airplane specific, but its about the same for most general > aviation airfoils. The angles of the VG's into the wind are especially > critical as is thier design. I put them on exactly per the instructions, > and the result was an incredible difference. You can get the VG's at: > > http://www.landshorter.com/ > > There is another Kolb MK III with a 912 based at my field, its "Fat > Albert" as some of you remember that plane. The difference between > landing that plane and landing my plane is huge, the other MK III has to > be landed very fast, and with power to keep it from dropping hard onto the > runway much the same as described by Grant. My MK III can be landed > engine off, approaching at 50 MPH and result in a soft landing. The "Fat > Albert" pilot could not believe the difference between the two MK III's. > > In a nutshell, the VG's eliminate the "Kolb Quit" where the plane just > drops into the runway if you get it to slow. I generally do three point > landings, but many times I touch the tailwheel first at less than 30 MPH > indicated, no problem, the mains just come down very nicely. I will take > some videos of this and post them on You Tube. > > Mike > > -------- > "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you > could have !!! > > Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164578#164578 > > > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 01:11:43 PM PST US From: DAquaNut@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Exhaust Temps Terry, I did a de carbon at 50 hrs. because of Rotax's recommendation. I did the work myself and used all genuine Rotax gaskets. It was pretty straight forward., but , getting all the tin back on and the needle bearings back was a little tricky. This engine has had high egts before and after the de carbon. During the warm spring and summer months it seems to stay below 1200* egts. That was before 10% alcohol was forced on us. I am going to try the WD-40 Test you mentioned, next time I get to the hangar. Ed FF # 62 **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/ 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598) ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 01:15:39 PM PST US From: DAquaNut@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Exhaust Temps In a message dated 2/17/2008 1:38:49 P.M. Central Standard Time, tkrolfe@toast.net writes: Ed, One more thought. Check your fuel bowl float level. If it is off it can cause a lean fuel situation in the mid range. Terry - FireFly #95 Terry, I checked the fuel level in the carb bowl and measured and it was right at 1/2 inch below the bowl rim! Ed FF#62 **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/ 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598) ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 02:06:18 PM PST US From: Russ Kinne Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: New use for ladders. You got to see this! I've worked with nutty carpenters who get hugely PO'ed at things -- On Feb 17, 2008, at 11:32 AM, JetPilot wrote: > > > jb92563 wrote: >> Russ, dare I ask how you know what flying ladder sounds like? >> [Laughing] >> >> > > > Just wait until one of those ladders fatigues, breaks and results > in a crash. Here in the US the family will probably sue the ladder > manufacturer for not putting a warning on the ladder stating that > they are " Not situable for use as aircraft structure. " and win > millions of dollars. > > Mike > > -------- > "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast > as you could have !!! > > Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164579#164579 > > ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 02:06:57 PM PST US From: russ kinne Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Test email Praps I should have said - doesn't scratch AS MUCH as the others do But I've used it on a lot more boats than aircraft -- but compounding is another thing entirely. On Feb 17, 2008, at 10:43 AM, John Hauck wrote: > > > But I DO know >> that Bon Ami doesn't scratch & the others do > > > Russ: > > Maybe you are laboring under the famous Bon Ami commercial, "Hasn't > scratched yet!" > > I don't know of any scouring powders, in the Bon Ami league, that > do not scratch. > > I believe if you go to an auto parts paint and refinishing house > you will find there are infinite different types and grades of > buffing, compounding, polishing materials. If I was going to work > on airplane paint, I would choose to spend a couple bucks for the > correct stuff and leave the Old Lady's kitchen stuff alone. > > john h > mkIII > > ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 02:09:55 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Finally flying my MK III!!! > Ah, but your barn dust must be strategically and critically precise > located barn dust. < g > Gene: I tried a Kolb Archive search, but turned up nada on "strategically and critically precise located barn dust". If I hang out long enough, somebody will adddress this problem. I flew down to Lucedale, MS, last week, with a load of barn dust, bug crap, and cow manure. Did 380 sm in 4.2 hours. Believe if I cleaned her up I could have done a lot better. Every time I wash my 1992 Dodge/Cummins it seems to run twice as good. Maybe I should try that with the mkIII. Reference VG's: I flew a FSII with VG's last October in SE Oregon. After we got her tuned and tightened up, the major difference I could determine from a clean wing and VG wing was landing. I think my Bassett Hound Ernie could grease that FSII on with VG's. Landings seemed to be a no brainer. Low time pilots should have no problem greasing them on. Other than landings, I couldn't find any other improvement over the clean wing. My test was not all inclusive. I did not do top speed WOT flight. Did a lot of stalls in different configurations, but no spins. For my money, I'll continue to fly my Kolbs clean, as I have for a long time. Should I get to the point I can no longer make a satisfactory landing with a clean wing, then I'll probably quit flying. john h mkIII ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 03:14:43 PM PST US From: Eugene Zimmerman Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Finally flying my MK III!!! On Feb 17, 2008, at 5:07 PM, John Hauck wrote: > I flew down to Lucedale, MS, last week, with a load of barn dust, > bug crap, and cow manure. Did 380 sm in 4.2 hours. Believe if I > cleaned her up I could have done a lot better. Every time I wash my > 1992 Dodge/Cummins it seems to run twice as good. Maybe I should > try that with the mkIII. John, Just curious, what was the problem with the original gears that were replaced? As for a true apples to apples VG test we need to have this settled once and for all by having a well seasoned kolb pilot try slow flight to stall with VG's on just one wing. < g > ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 03:17:07 PM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Test email Rick, Respectfully, I believe you are confusing silicone with silicon. While many abrasives do contain SILICON (one of the main ingredients of glass, and the second most abundant element on earth). SILICONE, on the other hand, is an altogether different compound, with the following definition; Silicones are a large group of compounds that include large polymers containing silicon. Depending on the formula and the degree of polymerization and cross-linking of the polymers, they may be slippery liquids, waxes, or rubbers. None of the "cleansers" contain silicone. Some DO contain silicon. Mike Welch Do Not Archive Paint problems are caused by silicone. Once you get them on a surface, they can never be removed, only spread around. Rick _________________________________________________________________ Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging.You IM, we give. ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 04:05:57 PM PST US From: william sullivan Subject: Kolb-List: Vg's I liked Gene's idea of VG's on one wing. That would indeed be a control test. Cheap, too. I wouldn't volunteer even if the Firestar was flying, as I couldn't tell the difference with my limited experience. I have read up on them, but never saw anyone try it on one wing only. I think it would be safe enough, but tricky doing a normal stall landing. Bill FS? ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 04:35:48 PM PST US From: Larry Bourne Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Vg's In all serious-ness, I have to say, "Don't Do It." Someone just might get the idea to give it a whirl and actually try putting vg's on one wing without thinking it thru. This is only my personal reasoning, but I'd think that anything that might alter the flying characteristics of a wing could possibly cause a wing to stall before the other one and result in a low altitude spin. Could well be deadly. Lar. william sullivan wrote: > I liked Gene's idea of VG's on one wing. That would indeed be a > control test. Cheap, too. I wouldn't volunteer even if the Firestar > was flying, as I couldn't tell the difference with my limited > experience. I have read up on them, but never saw anyone try it on one > wing only. I think it would be safe enough, but tricky doing a normal > stall landing. > Bill > FS? > * > > > * -- Larry Bourne Santa Fe, NM Building Kolb Mk III "Vamoose" www.gogittum.com www.gogittum.com/blog ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 04:48:18 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Finally flying my MK III!!! > Just curious, what was the problem with the original gears that were > replaced? Gene Z: There were some isolated cases of gear teeth shedding some metal fragments that could eventually cause a catastrophic failure if those fragements got into the gears. I believe Rotax took a big bracket on each side the failures and mine was included in that bunch. My old gears, the gear box, and the crankshaft looked great, just like it should have. john h mkIII ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 04:50:24 PM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Finally flying my MK III!!! At 10:47 AM 2/17/2008, John Hauck wrote: > > If you have the bucks, this is the way to go for accurate airspeed >>indication. > >http://www.airstuff.com/eshop/10Expand.asp?ProductCode=WINASI-Venturi Can't see spending that much on an ASI... I'm not worried about supreme accuracy; I just want to get the best accuracy out of what I already have. -Dana do not archive -- "The difference between death and taxes is death doesn't get worse every time Congress meets." -- Will Rogers ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 04:50:24 PM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Finally flying my MK III!!! At 10:47 AM 2/17/2008, John Hauck wrote: > > If you have the bucks, this is the way to go for accurate airspeed >>indication. > >http://www.airstuff.com/eshop/10Expand.asp?ProductCode=WINASI-Venturi Can't see spending that much on an ASI... I'm not worried about supreme accuracy; I just want to get the best accuracy out of what I already have. -Dana do not archive -- "The difference between death and taxes is death doesn't get worse every time Congress meets." -- Will Rogers ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 04:55:41 PM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Exhaust Temps At 04:09 PM 2/17/2008, DAquaNut@aol.com wrote: >...This engine has had high egts before and after the de carbon. During >the warm spring and summer months it seems to stay below 1200* egts. If you're not rejetting it according to the seasons, this makes sense... the less dense air in the warm months will make the engine run richer, and vice versa. -Dana -- "The difference between death and taxes is death doesn't get worse every time Congress meets." -- Will Rogers ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 04:56:58 PM PST US From: "beauford T" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Vg's ...if VG's didn't work...seriously doubt that Boeing, Airbus, Lockheed, et.al. would have gleefully festooned the wing and tail airfoils of their hardware with them for the past three or four decades as a mere science experiment or a joke... whaddya think? ..just a thought... Idle Beauford FF-076 Brandon Fl Do Not Archive ----- Original Message ----- From: william sullivan To: kolb list Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 7:03 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Vg's I liked Gene's idea of VG's on one wing. That would indeed be a control test. Cheap, too. I wouldn't volunteer even if the Firestar was flying, as I couldn't tell the difference with my limited experience. I have read up on them, but never saw anyone try it on one wing only. I think it would be safe enough, but tricky doing a normal stall landing. Bill FS? ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 05:07:22 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Vg's Beauford: I have never said VG's do not work. Simply have never found a requirement for them on my airplanes. I can imagine those manufacturers had a requirement for them long before they started sticking. john h mkIII ...if VG's didn't work...seriously doubt that Boeing, Airbus, Lockheed, et.al. would have gleefully festooned the wing and tail airfoils of their hardware with them for the past three or four decades as a mere science experiment or a joke... whaddya think? ..just a thought... Idle Beauford ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 05:14:56 PM PST US From: TK Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Exhaust Temps DAquaNut@aol.com wrote: > Terry, > > I did a de carbon at 50 hrs. because of Rotax's recommendation. I > did the work myself and used all genuine Rotax gaskets. It was > pretty straight forward., but , getting all the tin back on and the > needle bearings back was a little tricky. This engine has had high > egts before and after the de carbon. During the warm spring and > summer months it seems to stay below 1200* egts. That was before 10% > alcohol was forced on us. I am going to try the WD-40 Test you > mentioned, next time I get to the hangar. > > > > Ed FF # 62 Ed, That's why I worry about when we here have to bite the bullet of using ethanol also. It will probably change my setup also. What a scam it's turning out to be! Terry - Firefly #95 P's. Never decarboned, don't intend to and don't need to. The original users of Rotax engines, the snowmobile er's and jet skiers never did it and they beat the crap out of their machines! Choose your oil wisely! ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 05:41:22 PM PST US From: possums Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Finally flying my MK III!!! At 09:50 AM 2/17/2008, you wrote: > >Anybody know how accurate the old Hall (floating disk) airspeed >indicators are? I borrowed one from a friend to check my ASI, but >cold weather has kept me from getting a chance to mount it yet. > >-Dana I've got one on mine - it's more accurate than the one inside at low speeds. Especially with the windshield off, but I think even with the windshield on the Hall ASI is the most consistent. ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 05:55:39 PM PST US From: "beauford T" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Vg's ...but they LOOK so good, John....and they whistle when ya go fast.... and besides... what's good enough for Boeing Bullmoose is good enough for beauford.... ...count me in... Do Not Archive P.S. What Big Lar said...!!! Dumb as 'ol beauford may be... he would never recommend intentionally setting up an asymetric stall-control scenario.... VG's on one wing be mucho bad demo concept. If someone actually tries it, can beauford have yer watch...? (see me offline, preferably prior to the attempt...) Beauford FF-076 ----- Original Message ----- From: John Hauck To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 8:05 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Vg's Beauford: I have never said VG's do not work. Simply have never found a requirement for them on my airplanes. I can imagine those manufacturers had a requirement for them long before they started sticking. john h mkIII ...if VG's didn't work...seriously doubt that Boeing, Airbus, Lockheed, et.al. would have gleefully festooned the wing and tail airfoils of their hardware with them for the past three or four decades as a mere science experiment or a joke... whaddya think? ..just a thought... Idle Beauford ________________________________ Message 50 ____________________________________ Time: 06:54:52 PM PST US From: herb Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Finally flying my MK III!!! I am reminded of the old Kolb Video, with Dennis Souder flying three models.. His slow flight in the mark 111 was quite impressive to me.. full flaps... and some power... I think that sort of maneuverability is what sold a lot of us on Kolbs in the first place... gotta be light however.. Mine was very stock and weighed 490 as I recall..I haven't landed any plane that well since... Never did get around to using the second notch of flaps.. Herb At 10:24 AM 2/17/2008, you wrote: > >I have had an outside static source on my Kolb from the beginning, >so there are no pressure errors in my system. I have also checked >my airspeed readings with the GPS you see in the picture under no >wind conditions, and again everything is accurate. > >Precise placement of the VG's has been determined by the >manufacturer, they are not airplane specific, but its about the same >for most general aviation airfoils. The angles of the VG's into the >wind are especially critical as is thier design. I put them on >exactly per the instructions, and the result was an incredible >difference. You can get the VG's at: > >http://www.landshorter.com/ > >There is another Kolb MK III with a 912 based at my field, its "Fat >Albert" as some of you remember that plane. The difference between >landing that plane and landing my plane is huge, the other MK III >has to be landed very fast, and with power to keep it from dropping >hard onto the runway much the same as described by Grant. My MK >III can be landed engine off, approaching at 50 MPH and result in a >soft landing. The "Fat Albert" pilot could not believe the >difference between the two MK III's. > >In a nutshell, the VG's eliminate the "Kolb Quit" where the plane >just drops into the runway if you get it to slow. I generally do >three point landings, but many times I touch the tailwheel first at >less than 30 MPH indicated, no problem, the mains just come down >very nicely. I will take some videos of this and post them on You Tube. > >Mike > >-------- >"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as >you could have !!! > >Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164578#164578 > > ________________________________ Message 51 ____________________________________ Time: 06:56:40 PM PST US From: herb Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: New use for ladders. You got to see this! Mike Looked at a ladder lately...There is no place on one to place an additional warning! :-) Herb do not archive.. At 10:32 AM 2/17/2008, you wrote: > > >jb92563 wrote: > > Russ, dare I ask how you know what flying ladder sounds like? [Laughing] > > > > > > >Just wait until one of those ladders fatigues, breaks and results in >a crash. Here in the US the family will probably sue the ladder >manufacturer for not putting a warning on the ladder stating that >they are " Not situable for use as aircraft structure. " and win >millions of dollars. > >Mike > >-------- >"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as >you could have !!! > >Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164579#164579 > > ________________________________ Message 52 ____________________________________ Time: 07:07:37 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Finally flying my MK III!!! From: "grantr" Here is a link to the only hall ASI that I could find. Pretty cheap. i have a anenometer http://www.willswing.com/prod2.asp?theClass=inst&theModel=hall I have one of these hand held anemometers and it is very accurate. I tested it in the car by sticking it out the window and it was exact to the speedometer. Also walking in calm air it will read around 3mph. I wanted to take it up in the plane but I don't think it would be a good idea to open the door on the MK III! It seems like it would blow up the way it swings up to open. http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Lacrosse-Handheld-Anemometer-Wind-Speed-Wind-Chill_W0QQitemZ160207622772QQihZ006QQcategoryZ48624QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164732#164732 ________________________________ Message 53 ____________________________________ Time: 07:35:49 PM PST US From: DAquaNut@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re:ASI In a message dated 2/17/2008 6:50:57 P.M. Central Standard Time, d-m-hague@comcast.net writes: Can't see spending that much on an ASI... I'm not worried about supreme accuracy; I just want to get the best accuracy out of what I already have. -Dana I went through all kinds of dances to get my brand new ASI to read right! It was probably off by 20 mph! I gave in and spent the bucks to get a Winter ASI like John H. said. I installed it and that was it. It has been accurate from day one! I consider it money well spent ! Ed FF # 62 **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/ 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598) ________________________________ Message 54 ____________________________________ Time: 07:57:01 PM PST US From: william sullivan Subject: Kolb-List: ASI When I recieved the Firestar, the former owner said that the ASI was off by about 20mph. While I was cleaning out the clutter from inside, I found a clear plastic tube about a foot long. Turned out that it was the static air tube. The elbow had broken off just inside the nose, and the tube fell off the back of the gauge. Bill Sullivan FS? ________________________________ Message 55 ____________________________________ Time: 08:32:11 PM PST US From: Ron Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Test email Silicone Ok I get it. I thought he meant silicate as in sand. Ron (TXAZ) ================================ ---- robert bean wrote: ============ In the 80s, before the widespread use of factory clearcoat there was a lot of that silicone stuff sold to make your old car look shiny. Car painters hated it. Very tough to get off and unless you did completely the new paint would peel right off in a couple of weeks. Sanding it would just push it deeper. After one bad experience I now scrub any car I want to paint with an extremely harsh HVAC coil cleaner rated detergent before any work starts. Use gloves. BB On 17, Feb 2008, at 11:14 AM, Ron wrote: > > That sounds odd to me Richard, why can't you get it off with say a > sponge with a good rinse of running water? > > Ron (AZ,TX) > > =========================== > > ---- Richard Girard wrote: > > ============ > Paint problems are caused by silicone. Once you get them on a > surface, they > can never be removed, only spread around. > > Rick > > On Feb 17, 2008 8:24 AM, russ kinne wrote: > >> >> In my experience , scratching the surface >> >> >> On Feb 17, 2008, at 6:41 AM, David Lucas wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> What's the problem with having Silicates present in your cleaning >>> gear , Your Ajax's and Bon Ami's etc. ? Paint surface preparation >>> perhaps ? >>> >>> David. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164535#164535 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > -- > kugelair.com > > -- kugelair.com ________________________________ Message 56 ____________________________________ Time: 08:42:02 PM PST US From: "Richard Girard" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Test email Everyone likes bonafides when a statement is a controversial statement is made. Here are mine. I was a bond and seal certified inspector at Boeing for many years. I sat through the required "Death by View Foil" classes every six months in order to maintain that cert. Boeing is absolutely anal about any forms of silicone contamination on the aircraft. It is used for sealing the windows into their frames as it can with stand the temperature extremes the airframes endure in their normal working environment. Absolutely strict quarantine is made of all materials, tools, and disposables used to work with silicone containing substances to prevent contamination of those surfaces that are painted or bonded. The reason is simple to understand, although I am not a chemist so I can only repeat what the engineers taught me. The problem is that silicone forms a molecular bond with anything with which it comes into contact. Once it contaminates a surface, you can sand it, blast it, chemically etch it, or burn it and the silicone simply works its way down to the next layer. I've discussed the use of car waxes containing silicones with car painters over the years based upon what I was taught at Boeing. To a man they hated them. Yes there are products that will encapsulate them so that repair work can be done, but you will never get the same bond you would if the surface was not contaminated. One engineer used this analogy: Imagine having a bunch of microscopic highly magnetic ball bearings spread out over a steel sheet. Now imagine how it would be to paint the sheet. Then imagine how well that coating of paint would hold up to a 400 mph wind blast at -50 degrees F. This silicone issue was particularly critical to the builders of composite aircraft like the LongEZ. Early on many builders found that peel ply was virtually the same as polyester dress sheathing (which is nearly the same as ultralight weight Polyfiber cloth for that matter) with one very important difference. The dress sheathing often has sizings applied to it which contains silicone. Builders would use the dress sheathing in place of peel ply and then find that bonding of subsequent layups was sub strength.Reallybad if say you're laying up the bonds that hold the winglets on a LongEz wing for instance. Anyone wishing to test the point can buy a can of dry silicone spray, make up two test panels one with silicone and one without. Spray a coat of good quality paint on both and do a peel test on each. This information is worth exactly what you paid for it, do with it as you wish. Rick do not archive trying to get better at remembering to include that. On Feb 17, 2008 10:14 AM, Ron wrote: > > That sounds odd to me Richard, why can't you get it off with say a sponge > with a good rinse of running water? > > Ron (AZ,TX) > > =========================== > > ---- Richard Girard wrote: > > ============ > Paint problems are caused by silicone. Once you get them on a surface, > they > can never be removed, only spread around. > > Rick > > On Feb 17, 2008 8:24 AM, russ kinne wrote: > > > > > In my experience , scratching the surface > > > > > > On Feb 17, 2008, at 6:41 AM, David Lucas wrote: > > > > > > > > What's the problem with having Silicates present in your cleaning > > > gear , Your Ajax's and Bon Ami's etc. ? Paint surface preparation > > > perhaps ? > > > > > > David. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164535#164535 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > kugelair.com > > ________________________________ Message 57 ____________________________________ Time: 08:53:15 PM PST US From: "Richard Girard" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Vg's If anyone out there does decide to try the VG's on one wing test, may I suggest you read the book, "Anatomy of a Spin" by John Lowery first. Rick do not archive On Feb 17, 2008 7:52 PM, beauford T wrote: > ...but they LOOK so good, John....and they whistle when ya > go fast.... and besides... what's good > enough for Boeing Bullmoose is good enough for beauford.... > > ...count me in... > > Do Not Archive > > P.S. What Big Lar said...!!! Dumb as 'ol beauford may be... he > would never recommend intentionally setting up an asymetric > stall-control scenario.... VG's on one wing be mucho bad demo concept. > If someone actually tries it, can beauford have yer watch...? (see me > offline, > preferably prior to the attempt...) > > Beauford > FF-076 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* John Hauck > *To:* kolb-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Sunday, February 17, 2008 8:05 PM > *Subject:* Re: Kolb-List: Vg's > > Beauford: > > I have never said VG's do not work. > > Simply have never found a requirement for them on my airplanes. > > I can imagine those manufacturers had a requirement for them long before > they started sticking. > > john h > mkIII > > > ...if VG's didn't work...seriously doubt that Boeing, Airbus, Lockheed, > et.al. would > have gleefully festooned the wing and tail airfoils of their hardware with > them for > the past three or four decades as a mere science experiment or a joke... > whaddya think? > > ..just a thought... > > Idle Beauford > > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c > * > > * > > > * > > ________________________________ Message 58 ____________________________________ Time: 08:59:57 PM PST US From: "Richard Girard" Subject: Kolb-List: Credit for page 8 photo in EAA chapter 88's newsletter For anyone interested, I did reprint the photo with credit for the photographer and the pilots on page 2 of the February issue. I know Larry C. was only giving me a hard time, but I had space to fill and it seemed like the right thing to do, anyway. Besides, it might get me another photo to insert at a later date and maybe even convince someone in the chapter to build a Kolb. Rick do not archive ________________________________ Message 59 ____________________________________ Time: 10:58:59 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Finally flying my MK III!!! From: "JetPilot" NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net wrote: > Grant > > VGs likely help but don't help as much as you are being led to believe. In a > recent side by side fly off the difference wasn't real noticeable. > The pilot flying with the VG's was distracted, and did not fly the plane well, which he admitted here on the list. You statement here is nothing short of misleading and bordering on dishonest. Also, not all VG's installations are equal. VG's made out of alumimum with the " That looks about right" technique might not work as well. Placement and angles are VERY critical, if VG's were not installed in a very precise and accurate manner, their effects will be drastically reduced. NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net wrote: > > > John H correctly made a point that airspeed indicators in Kolbs can be > inaccurate and at higher angles of attack they get even more so. > > Did you not read my post, I have a separate static source and back up the airspeed with GPS as can be seen in my picture, again your statement is nothing short of misrepresenting the facts to make your point. Look at the attached picture and try to explain the GPS speed as instrument error. NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net wrote: > > > The term I hear "kolb quit" is plain and simple a stall no matter how much > these newbies want to believe otherwise. > No I don't have VGs. Three point landings are easer > for me and I land slower so.... > > As usual the advice is worth what you paid for it. > > Rick Neilsen > Redrive VW powered MKIIIC > > > --- Kolb quit is a very real fact, and it bends a lot of gear on landing. VG's practically eliminate this bad behavior. I dont care what theory may or not apply, I would rather have my Kolb land in a docile manner, and be forgiving of less than perfect technique. Pilots are human, from time to time you will have a bad landing, I dont want an airplane that will bite me and be easily damaged on a less than perfect landing. NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net wrote: > > > As usual the advice is worth what you paid for it. > > There is a huge amount of evidence and testimonials on the positive effect VG's here on the list. I have not always had VG's, I have flown my plane with and without them, and I am giving my results backed up with pictures and numbers. I do not sell VG's, and I have no reason to mislead anyone here. I am posting information on VG's here because some Kolbers took the trouble to tell me about the benefits of VG's, so im passing it along to others that can benefit also. Your catchy little one liner is nothing more than an attempt to distract readers from the facts here. All Rick has here is some very biased opinions, and has done nothing short of mislead and misrepresent the facts to make his point. Look at the pictures, look at the facts, and then make your choice. Mike Bigelow -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164760#164760 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/aerialultralightkolbmikeperformancefloridahomestead07_09_2007_009_633.jpg ________________________________ Message 60 ____________________________________ Time: 11:08:28 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Vg's From: "JetPilot" VG's on one wing would be VERY DANGEROUS. I would never do a test like that. You could easily find yourself in an uncontrollable and unrecoverable spin. You could also find yourself in an uncontrollable roll even at normal speed as one wing could have significantly more lift than the other at a given angle of attack. If you want to test VG's, first fly your plane without VG's, and then put them on and record all your numbers again. If you think you may not want the VG's permanently, put them on with double sided 3M automobile trim tape ( Not the cheap stuff ) that is what Possums and I did. That way you can get the VG's off if you do not like them. My results with putting VG's on were so good, I will never again fly my Kolb without them. Of the many people that have put VG's on their Kolbs, I have never heard of anyone not liking them and taking them off, that in itself should tell you something. Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! 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