Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:37 AM - Re: Re: The Kolb drop (pj.ladd)
2. 09:01 AM - Re: Re: Kolb videos (KOLB AIRCRAFT)
3. 09:19 AM - Re: Re: Firestar Videos and VG's (KOLB AIRCRAFT)
4. 09:49 AM - Re: Firestar Videos and VG's (R. Hankins)
5. 12:05 PM - videos (william sullivan)
6. 04:43 PM - Holy Crap ! The Tax People !!! (BMWBikeCrz@aol.com)
7. 04:55 PM - Re: Holy Crap ! The Tax People !!! (John Hauck)
8. 05:00 PM - Re: Holy Crap ! The Tax People !!! (KolbFlyerJim@aol.com)
9. 05:13 PM - Re: Holy Crap ! The Tax People !!! (knowvne@aol.com)
10. 05:19 PM - Re: Holy Crap ! The Tax People !!! (Ralph B)
11. 05:19 PM - Re: Holy Crap ! The Tax People !!! (ElleryWeld@aol.com)
12. 05:23 PM - Sales tax (Lanny Fetterman)
13. 05:30 PM - Re: Holy Crap ! The Tax People !!! (olendorf)
14. 07:33 PM - Re: Re: Holy Crap ! The Tax People !!! (gary aman)
15. 07:54 PM - Engine cowlings (Nelson, Craig)
16. 09:03 PM - Re: M3X, 912uls prop choices (icrashrc)
17. 09:23 PM - Re: Structural Failure (DAquaNut@aol.com)
18. 09:30 PM - M3X floor (icrashrc)
19. 09:47 PM - Re: Holy Crap ! The Tax People !!! (Wade Lawicki)
20. 09:47 PM - Re: Engine cowlings (robert bean)
21. 09:59 PM - Re: Holy Crap ! The Tax People !!! (Dan G.)
22. 10:12 PM - Re: Structural Failure (WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: The Kolb drop |
Hi Charlie
the plane won't slow down until it hits something.>>
That will do ut every time.
Pat
Message 2
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YES THE VIDEOS ARE ON ; YOU TUBE.
----- Original Message -----
From: "huronflyer" <drherron@sympatico.ca>
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 11:33 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb videos
>
> Videos
> Hi, I could not navigate to the video at the Kolb site.
> There did not seem to be a place to register; do you need to be a
registered Kolb owner from factory?
>
> In any regard are the videos on "You Tube" or could you suggest a similar
video with comparable low and slow scenario?
>
> Dave
>
> --------
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165750#165750
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Firestar Videos and VG's |
MICHAEL, THANKS FOR YOUR WISDOM ABOUT KOLB AIRCRAFT AND A GREAT
AIRPLANE IT IS . WHAT YOU POSTED WILL HELP A LOT OF KOLB PEOPLE
UNDERSTAND OUR PRODUCT. THANKS FOR THE KIND WORDS. DONNIE AT KOLB
KOLB AIRCRAFT. Original Message -----
From: Michael Adams
To: Kolb-List@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 4:22 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Firestar Videos and VG's
Hello everyone!
Normally I just read the messages posted to the board but today I
decided it was time to post a message in order to help (hopefully) with
the VG discussion.
First, if you have seen the videos on YouTube that are being
discussed, I am the pilot in the videos. (Michael Adams, age 36) My
father built a Firestar 1 back around 1990 which is where I received my
introduction to the Kolb aircraft. He has flown many airplanes in his
40 years of flying and to this day he will tell you hands down, the
Firestar is the best airplane he has ever flown. After receiving my
private pilot certificate, I got a chance to fly his airplane and it was
a joy. It wasn't long after that I got a Firestar 2 for myself. In
fact, the private airport where we fly has a small hangar (barn) with
about 12 to 14 airplanes (approx). There have been 8 Firestars in the
hangar. It wouldn't be a stretch to say that most of the Firestars are
there because those people saw the performance of my fathers plane and
just had to get a Firestar themselves.
Now, I have around 500 hours in my firestar. This does not make me an
expert but I feel I have enough experience with the airplane to know its
flying characteristics. The Kolb is a wonderful airplane but as with
all airplanes, it has characteristics that need to be learned. I would
also say it's very possible that one Kolb may not perform exactly like
another Kolb of the same model due to building methods, pilot weight,
etc. With all that said, I'll tell you how my airplane flies.
(Please read everything I'm about to say before jumping on my case)
I believe the term "Kolb Drop" is really a tendency of not flying the
airplane to it's true flight characteristics. When the airspeed get's
slow enough or the angle of attack reaches that critical spot, a wing
will stop flying. Now I'll admit, I've had the airplane drop on me when
I wasn't expecting it. Was that the airplanes fault? Nope. I just had
to learn the characteristics of the airplane. I did know that it wasn't
my wing that was stalling but rather my stabilizer/elevator. Slow
airspeed, cord line change, angle of attack during landing, ground
effect, all play some small role. The solution at the time was to land
the airplane like it wanted to be landed which meant two point landings.
To me it actually felt like I had the nose pointed up high in the air
but videos would show my tail was still up in the air. I really thought
I had been making three points. Two point landings were very
comfortable but three points could still be achieved if I really worked
it and kept about 3,000 rpm's on landing. If I just landed two
pointers, there would never be a problem. (Please remember, this was my
Firestar... others may have no problems with three points)
Now for the interesting stuff. I had been reading about VG's and
figured, it probably would do no harm to at least test them. Wouldn't
it be great if you could take a wonderful flying airplane and somehow
make it even better? So I bought some VG's and installed them on the
wing and stabilizer. Before hand I had done some cruise speed test and
also side by side slow flight comparisons against my fathers Firestar 1.
He was always able to fly just a little slower than me but only by
about 2 mph. I'll come back to that comparison in a bit. With the VG's
on the airplane, I took off and really didn't notice anything. I then
applied full power and pulled the stick back. I wouldn't think a
Firestar would climb any steeper than it had before. After all, how can
one climb quicker than a home sick angel? Well, when you put on VG's,
that angel now has a fire under its butt and the only place to find a
bucket of water is in heaven. I then ran some cruise tests with a GPS.
My cruise speeds were unaffected. The next test was slow flight against
my fathers Firestar 1. I was now able to fly a couple a mph slower than
him, but only a few. So far, the climb rate was the only big
difference. I also did some stalls. Power off felt about the same but
the recovery was quicker. The power on stall was impressive. The
airplane didn't want to stall. It just wanted to mush a little and then
keep flying. Boy, the nose was high. The overall stall speed dropped
by about 4 mph. I was hoping for more. Now for the biggest difference.
Landings!!! I kept shooting landings and with each one kept pulling
more and more back stick. Eventually the tail wheel was rolling on the
ground way before the mains touched. This could also be done at a
throttle setting very close to idle. Before, the elevator would stall
once you pulled the stick back past neutral (That was one of the things
I learned to avoid when landing before - it's also amazing how little
elevator deflection is needed to flare or even climb - take some video
and you'll be surprised when you can't see any movement on the elevator
- I digress)
The airplane now has some new flying characteristic that I had to
learn. The main thing is my landing speeds (once in ground effect) are
much slower than I could have landed before. The elevator is effective
all the way back. Why wouldn't anyone want to slow down their ground
speed during landing if they could? The Kolb is one of the best planes
out there without VG"s but WOW! With VG's... the difference cannot be
put into words.
I wanted my father to see what he thought of the VG's so he took my
airplane for a flight. He has over 800 hours in his Firestar and has
flown my airplane for many hours. When he landed, he just couldn't stop
talking about the positive effect the VG's had on the airplane. He was
very impressed. So impressed that he decided to put some on his
Firestar. He only placed them on the horizontal stabilizer and he
really didn't use that many. (Here's is a good tip - he purchased r/c
airplane wing skids that look just like VG's that can be made or bought.
They are very cheep but are a little thicker than VG's that can be
purchased) He was amazed at the difference it made to his landing
speeds and flare. It's really one of those things that has to be
experienced. We then did the side by side slow flight comparison and he
was now flying at my speed. I believe if he added them to the wings he
might be able to fly a tiny bit slower, but probably not enough to make
a huge difference. The big difference is the stabilizer. If you can
keep it flying (applying downward force) at a slower airspeed, you can
keep the nose the airplane up and slow down.
So, here is my brief summary.
The "Kolb Drop" is a result of the pilot not flying the airplane like
it should be in it's current configuration. I did it until I learned
better.
VG's added to the stabilizer made a tremendous difference.
The Kolb Firestar is a wonderful airplane just as it is. It's hard to
believe but it can be better with VG's. VG's would probably improve any
airplane when properly installed.
For those of you that don't have a Firestar (or other Kolb aircraft),
get one.
For those of you that already have one of the wonderful airplanes from
the Kolb company, place some VG's on your stabilizer. (and wing if you
really want)
About the videos. Most of the flying in the Firestar 1 and 2 video is
without VG's. All of the other videos show the airplane with VG's.
Long live KOLB!!!
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Firestar Videos and VG's |
> I would also say it's very possible that one Kolb may not perform exactly like
another Kolb of the same model due to building methods, pilot weight, etc....
>
> Eventually the tail wheel was rolling on the ground way before the mains touched....
>
> The power on stall was impressive. The airplane didn't want to stall. It just
wanted to mush a little and then keep flying.
Michael,
You did a great job of describing the characteristics of my KXP. I can drag the
tail wheel on landing, hold the stick all the way back and not lose elevator
control, and do full power, full back stick mushes with only a stall buffet.
I do all of these with no VGs.
I installed VGs a couple of years ago, but removed them because of the sharpness
of power-off stalls. I can drag the tail on landing without them. With the
VGs the tail would touch while the mains were still a good foot and a half in
the air. The mains would then plop down a little harder then I wanted. If I
ever get around to adding longer gear legs, I will try them again.
Thanks for the great videos and information.
--------
Roger in Oregon
1992 KXP 503 - N1782C
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=166135#166135
Message 5
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Michael Adams- Thank you from a couple of recent Kolb Firestar buyers. We have
not flown ours yet, and the videos are a great confidence builder.
Bill and Tiny Sullivan
Old Firestar
do not archive
Message 6
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| Subject: | Holy Crap ! The Tax People !!! |
Now that I have done the "right thing" and registered my Firestar the State
of Florida wants Sales Tax !!! Any Suggestions ???
Thanks
! Dave
**************
Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Holy Crap ! The Tax People !!! |
Suicide!
Price the airplane as low as you think you can get away with.
john h
Any Suggestions ???
Thanks ! Dave
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Holy Crap ! The Tax People !!! |
Hi Dave
In Illinois you dont have to pay sales tax if you bought it as an ultralight
and converted it to an E.S.L.A call the state about this subject..
Jim
N2613M
Kolb UltraStar 503
In a message dated 2/25/2008 6:44:41 P.M. Central Standard Time,
BMWBikeCrz@aol.com writes:
Now that I have done the "right thing" and registered my Firestar the State
of Florida wants Sales Tax !!! Any Suggestions ???
Thanks ! Dave
**************
Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duff
y/2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Holy Crap ! The Tax People !!! |
DAVE
Hows about finding out were =C2-Gov. Bush lives and make a very low flyby
around 5 AM on a SAT morning... That should bring home what=C2-TAXING
some one is really all about.. =C2-hahahahahaha 8-)=C2-
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: BMWBikeCrz@aol.com
Sent: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 7:40 pm
Subject: Kolb-List: Holy Crap ! The Tax People !!!
Now that I have done the "right thing" and registered my Firestar the State
of Florida wants Sales Tax !!!=C2- Any Suggestions ???
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- Thanks ! Dave
**************
Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-cam
pos-duffy/2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
________________________________________________________________________
aol.com
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Holy Crap ! The Tax People !!! |
BMWBikeCrz(at)aol.com
> Now that I have done the "right thing" and registered my Firestar the State of
Florida wants Sales Tax !!! Any Suggestions ???
>
> ? ? ? ? Thanks
! Dave]
In Minnesota they waived the sales tax if it was an ultralight-type aircraft purchased
before September 1, 2004 (the day the SP rule became effective).
If I were you, I would leave Florida and move to Minnesota [Laughing].
do not archive
--------
Ralph B
Original Firestar
N91493 E-AB
21 years flying it
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=166231#166231
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Holy Crap ! The Tax People !!! |
What I did about taxes here in Maine I sent the state a pic of a bare
firestar fusalage mine and I told them I bought this at a swap meet with a set
of
plans and I didn't have a receipt for it because the guy just figured it
wouldn't ever fly again and I only met the guy once the only time I have ever
gone to that aviation swap meet in another state then I told them I paid the
guy 300.00 for the frame and the plans and they bought it and my Taxes was
only 13.00
if you need a pic of a naked fusalage I am willing to send you a copy of
mine if you need it good luck theres no sence paying a big tax the government
is not capable to handle it wisely so keep it for your self
Ellery in MAINE
X- Firestar
Owner
Mk3 Xtra
builder now
In a message dated 2/25/2008 7:56:29 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
jhauck@elmore.rr.com writes:
Suicide!
Price the airplane as low as you think you can get away with.
john h
Any Suggestions ???
Thanks ! Dave
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
Message 12
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Dave and all, Pennsylvania works the same way. Since I bought my FSII kit
from old Kolb when they were based was in Pa. I paid the tax at the time of
purchase. All I had to do is send the state copies of my receipts showing
that I had paid the tax.
If you never paid sales tax on your ELSA, you better get ready to draw
leather! ( Pull out your wallet). Sad but true, I have several friends that
had to pay this sales tax after registering in Pa. and they all had to ante
up. Big brother wants his share. Hope someone else like a used car dealer
can give you some ideas. Lanny N589LF
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Holy Crap ! The Tax People !!! |
I'm in New York and I was told if you bought it a while ago, I think over 7 years
ago) and they didn't get the sales tax then it's too late. Statue of limitations.
Maybe Florida has the same rule. IF you bought it a while ago.
--------
Scott Olendorf
Original Firestar, Rotax 447, Powerfin prop
Schenectady, NY
http://KolbFirestar.googlepages.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=166236#166236
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Holy Crap ! The Tax People !!! |
Don't you state, during the registration process,that you are the manufacturer,and
have assembled this aircraft from parts you no longer can produce proof of
their origin or cost?You don,t state you stole them,so you must have paid for
them and the sales tax ,if any in this case.
----- Original Message ----
From: Ralph B <ul15rhb@juno.com>
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 5:16:49 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Holy Crap ! The Tax People !!!
-->
Kolb-List
message
posted
by:
"Ralph
B"
<ul15rhb@juno.com>
BMWBikeCrz(at)aol.com
>
Now
that
I
have
done
the
"right
thing"
and
registered
my
Firestar
the
State
of
Florida
wants
Sales
Tax
!!!
Any
Suggestions
???
>
>
?
?
?
?
Thanks
!
Dave]
In
Minnesota
they
waived
the
sales
tax
if
it
was
an
ultralight-type
aircraft
purchased
before
September
1,
2004
(the
day
the
SP
rule
became
effective).
If
I
were
you,
I
would
leave
Florida
and
move
to
Minnesota
[Laughing].
do
not
archive
--------
Ralph
B
Original
Firestar
N91493
E-AB
21
years
flying
it
Read
this
topic
online
here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=166231#166231
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Message 15
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<<DSC_0241.JPG>> <<DSC_0065.JPG>> <<DSC_0067.JPG>>
<<DSC_0070.JPG>> <<DSC_0143.JPG>> <<DSC_0145.JPG>>
<<DSC_0146.JPG>>
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dana Hague
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 7:23 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: engine cowlings
Watching the videos recently posted made me wonder about one thing.
The Kolbs are such clean looking designs... except for the uncowled
engine
sitting on top of the wing. Has anybody ever built a Kolb with a
completely cowled engine?
I have cowled my 912 I did it for my own taste I felt the kolb is such a
great design and when I visited the factory my impression was little
airplanes--- then when I saw John H's missP I had to have a kolb. To me
there are a few things that look unfinished and a little ultra light
looking-- but that's the roots of this bird-- and the excellent flying
character. the fun of owning, building and then flying the dream is what
Kolb ownership is all about--- as the credit card advertisement states
priceless!!! I love the stance of John's landing gear---the seats from a
piper tomahawk Boyd has adapted to his MK3 the custom fuse Possums has
on his Fstar---old poops with the custom gas tank---there are so many
ingenus things the guys on this lis have done to their planes---- it's
about making a great design yours.The great thing about a Kolb is to see
what every one is doing---even the chater about vg's--- I love the
passion you all have for your plane!!!!!!!!!!!! My cowling looks good to
me, I did it for the looks, not for any other reason--- the look to me--
and it is efficient to the point that I can sit on the ground and idle
at 1112f and not boil the water out of it and fly at 40f with some tape
across the radiator..... I just like the way it looks....
Uncle craig
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: M3X, 912uls prop choices |
Thanks to both of you for the quick responses. I went ahead and bought the prop
as is and will probably have nickle installed by Warp. They told me it was no
problem to do and the cost would be the same as if i ordered it that way. Thanks
again,
--------
Scott
www.ill-EagleAviation.com
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=166279#166279
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Structural Failure |
Fire Flyers,
When pulling my engine through to get fuel to the carb , I noticed a
metallic rattle I had not heard before. It was inside the wing. I isolated it
to the trailing edge and outboard edge of the left wing as viewed from the
seat. Further examination indicated the problem area was near the end of the
wing spar. I removed the wing and brought it home. Reluctantly I cut through
the fabric, To reveal the 5/16 " X. 035 alum tube running from the outboard
trailing edge to the inside of the outboard end of the main wing spar had
severed completely . This tube was possibly flattened too much by the factory
as
it broke where it was flattened. This was a quick build kit. This firefly
has never had the wings to hit the ground or anything else. It has never been
slightly wrecked. Apparently taxiing on those little four inch wheels, over
stressed that 5/16" tube. Anyone heard of this happening to a Firefly?
Ed FF # 62
**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
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Just a couple pics of the floor we laid up. I'll add a page with more details to
the website in a few days.
--------
Scott
www.ill-EagleAviation.com
do not archive
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Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Holy Crap ! The Tax People !!! |
Here in Tennessee, we have success telling them it was NOT a sale and a mandatory
change by the FAA. If you have owned it for a long time or built from "Spare"
parts is what they want to know. Tax division has no idea about what sport
pilot is until you explain it to them, they just get n numbers and assume it is
a change of ownership. Here in Nashville it is just 1 woman that handles it
and is very understanding.
Fly Safe,
Wade
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=166283#166283
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| Subject: | Re: Engine cowlings |
On 25, Feb 2008, at 10:51 PM, Nelson, Craig wrote:
> .. I just like the way it looks....
>
> Uncle craig
So do I.
BB
do not archive
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| Subject: | Re: Holy Crap ! The Tax People !!! |
Listen to Ellery when he talks about taxes. I lived in Maine for 5
years and they have a high tax for everything you can think of - so he
has earned the unfortunate honor of expert on this topic. In AZ there
is no tax if it was a private party sale (no dealer). So, like the
others said, do some checking before you pay the gov.
Dan G.
503 F2
Tucson
BMWBikeCrz@aol.com wrote:
> Now that I have done the "right thing" and registered my Firestar the
> State of Florida wants Sales Tax !!! Any Suggestions ???
>
>
> Thanks ! Dave
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| Subject: | Re: Structural Failure |
In a message dated 2/26/2008 12:24:06 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
DAquaNut@aol.com writes:
To reveal the 5/16 " X. 035 alum tube running from the outboard trailing
edge to the inside of the outboard end of the main wing spar had severed
completely .
Ed,
This has happened to many Kolbs, including mine (both wings). Basically
that tube just holds some tension on the trailing edge spar and wing tip bow to
help keep them in position, so as not to have it bend back during rough
handling or contact with the ground. It is not to serious and I continued flying
for awhile, but kept checking on it to be sure it wasn't bending back.
Finally, I elected to repair mine by using a larger, 3/8" diameter tube. The
worst part was making the decision to cut an access hole in my nicely painted
wing fabric :(
Bill Varnes
Original Kolb FireStar
Audubon NJ
Do Not Archive
**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
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