---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 03/04/08: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 09:01 AM - Re: Mono-floats (KOLB AIRCRAFT) 2. 09:28 AM - engine out (Larry Cottrell) 3. 10:12 AM - Re: engine out (Mike Welch) 4. 12:20 PM - X@#$@#%*XX (Larry Cottrell) 5. 12:29 PM - Re: Lost mold strut faring (jb92563) 6. 12:39 PM - Re: X@#$@#%*XX (John Hauck) 7. 12:42 PM - Re: X@#$@#%*XX (robert bean) 8. 12:52 PM - Re: Lost mold strut faring (Mike Welch) 9. 01:02 PM - Re: X@#$@#%*XX (HShack@aol.com) 10. 01:04 PM - New steel legs (Yankin Anbankin) 11. 06:54 PM - Re: X@#$@#%*XX (Bob Dalton) 12. 07:23 PM - Re: Lost mold strut faring (Ed Chmielewski) 13. 08:31 PM - Re: X@#$@#%*XX (Larry Cottrell) 14. 09:04 PM - Re: Lost mold strut faring (ross richardson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 09:01:46 AM PST US From: "KOLB AIRCRAFT" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Mono-floats DAVID, I HAVE NO MORE INFO. AT THIS TIME, BUT WE ARE WORKING ON THE PUDDLE JUMPER FLOATS FOR THE MARK 3 XTRA RIGHT NOW , IFTHESE WORK OUT GOOD , I DONT SEE MONO FLOATS IN THE FUTURE, THANKS FOR THE INTEREST IN OUR PRODUCTS DONNIE AT KOLB. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Herron" Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 6:50 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Mono-floats > > > Can anyone give me updated news on a possible "mono-float" being > available for Kolbs? > > Dave > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:28:28 AM PST US From: "Larry Cottrell" Subject: Kolb-List: engine out Hi Steve, I was wondering about your landing in the gravel pit. Apparently something collapsed, gear leg or what? It did not appear as though the touch down was that severe, however it was apparent that it was primarily on one leg. Could you be a bit more specific as to what failed, and how much damage it did. Larry C ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 10:12:08 AM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: RE: Kolb-List: engine out Larry, I didn't get the impression it was actually Steve that crashed. I believe he was just passing along a good video. In fact, If you pull the video up, it mentions the name Paul Bradicich. One thing I don't quite understand though, is why he had to crach at the last second. He seemed to have it all under control, and then Wamm! I don't want to "Monday morning quarterback this poor fellow, but why not hang in there for 5 more seconds and at least begin a landing, even if he would have to plow into something not too far away on the roll out? Have a pleasant day, Lar. There's a MkIII out in my shop, yelling for me to get something done today. Adios. Mike Welch ________________________________ From: lcottrell@fmtcblue.com Subject: Kolb-List: engine out Hi Steve, I was wondering about your landing in the gravel pit. Apparently something collapsed, gear leg or what? It did not appear as though the touch down was that severe, however it was apparent that it was primarily on one leg. Could you be a bit more specific as to what failed, and how much damage it did. Larry C _________________________________________________________________ Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail-get your "fix". http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:20:22 PM PST US From: "Larry Cottrell" Subject: Kolb-List: X@#$@#%*XX I have been putting off sending this due to shame and a plain reluctance to admit that I could do anything so patently stupid. However one cannot stick their heads in the sand forever. I managed to cause myself another major repair problem a couple of weeks ago. The short version is that I managed to get behind the power curve in a slow flight much too close to the ground. (Kolb Pilot Quit) Probably another five feet of altitude or if I had kept my eyes on the airspeed indicator this miserable letter would never have to have been written. As it is the axle "Y" fitting broke on contact with the ground, the gear leg dug into the soft ground resulting in a crushed nose cone and a few bent tubes. Every thing is repairable, I even straightened the gear leg, it only takes time and money. While I have nothing but praise for the Firestar and the ability of the cage to absorb shock, (I didn't even have a sore muscle from the incident, except for kicking my own butt. ) I cannot quite speak as highly of the axle socket or the gear legs for that matter. While I cannot deny that the poor things shouldn't be subjected to the stresses that I have so callously asked them to withstand, I wish they were tougher. I understand that by their being the weakest part of the system that it might save some of the other parts of the cage. However when the leg snaps off or the axle breaks the rest of the cage is going to suffer as well. If the wheel had been able to stay on and just bounced rather than allowing the leg to dig into the ground, I cannot help but believe that the damage would have been substantially less. I hopefully will be getting some of the 4130 gear legs this spring, and perhaps I can talk Terry into building me some tougher axle Y's as well. I would have expected the gear leg to collapse, but the gear leg was OK, the damn axle Y broke. If I planned to stick to airports and other civilized environs then none of this would be a consideration, but I haven't, and most likely won't. Larry C do not archive ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:29:45 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Lost mold strut faring From: "jb92563" Nicely done....its always great to see how there are so many ways to get something custom done. It occurred to me as I was squinting to see the first pic before I double clicked it, that the "Tape Fairing" looked like plastercine or clay. Then I thought....stealing a kids plastercine and using that as the fairing material would allow you to get a very smooth fairing mold off it from the start and would not likely require much if any further cleaning up. Plus you could teach your kid to do it and have him get the other side started for you.[Laughing] I guess people use whatever you have on hand. Good thing about this is that even if the other side fairing is not perfectly identical, you would never notice it since you can only see one side of the plane at a time [Wink] I can't think of a way to create a mirror image mold of that part for the other side though....probably just quicker to do the other side just like the first. Hey, maybe you should keep those molds and make a few spares in case anyone else wants some. -------- Ray Kolb UltraStar (Cuyuna UL-202) Moni MotorGlider Schreder HP-11 Glider Riverside County, CA Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=167699#167699 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:39:19 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: X@#$@#%*XX Hi Larry: Sorry to hear about your gear leg/axle socket failure. Been there and done that. The exception was it chose to fail 3,742 miles from home, Muncho Lake, British Columbia, Canada, 1 July 2000. I could have prevented this failure had I taken Brother Jim's advice when we were fabricating gear legs and axle sockets. He wanted to weld the axle socket to the end of the gear leg. I liked using the gear leg/axle socket because if was easier to align the main gear. Wish I had taken his advice. When we rebuilt the mkIII we welded .120 wall axle sockets to the end of the 4130 legs. Don't think we will be losing a wheel anytime soon. john h mkIII If I planned to stick to airports and other civilized environs then none of this would be a consideration, but I haven't, and most likely won't. Larry C ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:42:15 PM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: X@#$@#%*XX Sounds like some damage I'm recently familiar with (Thom?) To his credit he uttered but one singular cuss word after exiting his inverted FS. Admirable self control. BB BTW I would fabricate tougher Y axle fittings. do not archive On 4, Mar 2008, at 3:17 PM, Larry Cottrell wrote: > I have been putting off sending this due to shame and a plain > reluctance to admit that I could do anything so patently stupid. > However one cannot stick their heads in the sand forever. I managed > to cause myself another major repair problem a couple of weeks ago. > The short version is that I managed to get behind the power curve > in a slow flight much too close to the ground. (Kolb Pilot Quit) > Probably another five feet of altitude or if I had kept my eyes on > the airspeed indicator this miserable letter would never have to > have been written. As it is the axle "Y" fitting broke on contact > with the ground, the gear leg dug into the soft ground resulting in > a crushed nose cone and a few bent tubes. Every thing is > repairable, I even straightened the gear leg, it only takes time > and money. > > While I have nothing but praise for the Firestar and the ability of > the cage to absorb shock, (I didn't even have a sore muscle from > the incident, except for kicking my own butt. ) I cannot quite > speak as highly of the axle socket or the gear legs for that > matter. While I cannot deny that the poor things shouldn't be > subjected to the stresses that I have so callously asked them to > withstand, I wish they were tougher. I understand that by their > being the weakest part of the system that it might save some of the > other parts of the cage. However when the leg snaps off or the axle > breaks the rest of the cage is going to suffer as well. If the > wheel had been able to stay on and just bounced rather than > allowing the leg to dig into the ground, I cannot help but believe > that the damage would have been substantially less. I hopefully > will be getting some of the 4130 gear legs this spring, and perhaps > I can talk Terry into building me some tougher axle Y's as well. I > would have expected the gear leg to collapse, but the gear leg was > OK, the damn axle Y broke. > > If I planned to stick to airports and other civilized environs then > none of this would be a consideration, but I haven't, and most > likely won't. > > Larry C > > do not archive > www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List_- > ============================================================ _- > forums.matronics.com_- > ============================================================ _- > contribution_- > =========================================================== > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:52:14 PM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Lost mold strut faring Kolb guys, First, thank you Uncle Craig for the lost mold tips. It w as very thoughtful of you to go to the trouble toshow us your handywork. I hope I'm not stepping on Uncle Craig's ideas, but I thought I would menti on a trick I use when working withmolds for making my own fiberglass parts. I use joint compound, the stuff they use for taping and texturing walls. It is cheap, phenominally easy to sculpt,and absolutely falls apart when exposed to water (meaning it cleans up easy). Similar to Uncle Craig, I'l l do a basic build-up with tape, thin woods strips, or whatever...just to g et close. Then, I layer on some joint compound, fairly thick..maybe more t han 1/2" thick. Let that set for about 24 hours, until it is nice and drie d out. Then you are ready to start shaping your piece. Your best sculptin g is done with the drywall sandpaper. It is made of heavy gauze and has ho les in it, because the joint compound sands so fast you get lots of residue ...quick. They have handheld sanding blocks. They work best. For curves and the like, just use the sandpaper loosely in your fingers, or wrapped ar ound a little sponge. Joint compound smooths so fast, you have to be care ful. You can shape something like a small fairing in a couple of minutes. If, for some reason you screw up, and sand off too much, no biggie!!! La yer a bit on, wait a day, and sand it again. Once you get that perfect sh ape you're after, put a thin coat of epoxy resin only, just to seal it. Af ter that is cured, rub a couple of coats of hard car wax, or even better, m old release wax, on the sculpted piece. You can now put a couple of layers (maybe 4-6) over the waxed sculpted shape and then let that cure. Now ca refully pry the outer fiberglass shell off the inner shape. You can now us e the outer fiberglass shell for building a finished product of the part th at's a copy of what's still on your plane. You'll need a few coats of mold release wax in the outer shell (the inner surfaces), and you're ready to b uild your part. Mike Welch PS. Another safe layer to use, at the beginning of your build-up, that may be quite a bit more resilient than plastic wrap , is to use aluminum foil. NO resins will eat it away, or otherwise seep t hrough and get to your plane beneath. _________________________________________________________________ Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_0120 08 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:02:41 PM PST US From: HShack@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: X@#$@#%*XX I don't know how thick you want them, but about 3-4 years ago I ordered new Y's & they were much thicker than the originals. Howard Shackleford FS II SC In a message dated 3/4/2008 3:21:15 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, lcottrell@fmtcblue.com writes: and perhaps I can talk Terry into building me some tougher axle Y's as well. I would have expected the gear leg to collapse, but the gear leg was OK, the damn axle Y broke. **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:04:40 PM PST US From: Yankin Anbankin Subject: Kolb-List: New steel legs Kolb gentlemen, What, with all this talk about steel legs, who am I to not want to jump on this bandwagon? I found a metal heat treating facility (Industrial Heat Treating, 1-801-363-7318). They quoted me a price to heat gear 4130 steel legs for...$65 to Rockwell 48 hardness. I just thought I'd pass this along. BTW, Shapiro Supply seems to have the best prices I could find for chromoly tubing. They're in St. Louis. Mo. 1-800-833-1259 Hope this helps, Yankin MkIII, with soon to be taller steel legs --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:54:44 PM PST US From: "Bob Dalton" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: X@#$@#%*XX Larry, Glad your okay, now get her fixed up so we can read and see those great high desert trips you take and share with us. And gosh-darnnit be careful! Bob Dalton wiserguy@comcast.net _____ From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Cottrell Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 12:17 PM Subject: Kolb-List: X@#$@#%*XX I have been putting off sending this due to shame and a plain reluctance to admit that I could do anything so patently stupid. However one cannot stick their heads in the sand forever. I managed to cause myself another major repair problem a couple of weeks ago. The short version is that I managed to get behind the power curve in a slow flight much too close to the ground. (Kolb Pilot Quit) Probably another five feet of altitude or if I had kept my eyes on the airspeed indicator this miserable letter would never have to have been written. As it is the axle "Y" fitting broke on contact with the ground, the gear leg dug into the soft ground resulting in a crushed nose cone and a few bent tubes. Every thing is repairable, I even straightened the gear leg, it only takes time and money. While I have nothing but praise for the Firestar and the ability of the cage to absorb shock, (I didn't even have a sore muscle from the incident, except for kicking my own butt. ) I cannot quite speak as highly of the axle socket or the gear legs for that matter. While I cannot deny that the poor things shouldn't be subjected to the stresses that I have so callously asked them to withstand, I wish they were tougher. I understand that by their being the weakest part of the system that it might save some of the other parts of the cage. However when the leg snaps off or the axle breaks the rest of the cage is going to suffer as well. If the wheel had been able to stay on and just bounced rather than allowing the leg to dig into the ground, I cannot help but believe that the damage would have been substantially less. I hopefully will be getting some of the 4130 gear legs this spring, and perhaps I can talk Terry into building me some tougher axle Y's as well. I would have expected the gear leg to collapse, but the gear leg was OK, the damn axle Y broke. If I planned to stick to airports and other civilized environs then none of this would be a consideration, but I haven't, and most likely won't. Larry C do not archive ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:23:01 PM PST US From: "Ed Chmielewski" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Lost mold strut faring Hi Craig, In the future, would it be possible to post a link to the pics? Hung my dial-up connection pretty bad. Thanx, Ed in JXN MkII/503 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nelson, Craig" Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 11:11 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Lost mold strut faring <> St <> ar <> te <> d <> a <> st <> ru <> t <> fa <> ring for the bottom of the strut today step 1 I applied food wrap to the fusladge Step 2 I covered thr spar with paper Step 3 with masking tape I made the desired shape Step 4 with gauz and plaster I covered the masking tape Step 5 removed the plaster part from the plane Step 6 cleaned it up now it"s ready for the resin and glass Uncle craig ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:31:39 PM PST US From: "Larry Cottrell" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: X@#$@#%*XX ----- Original Message ----- From: John Hauck To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 1:36 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: X@#$@#%*XX Hi Larry: Sorry to hear about your gear leg/axle socket failure. Been there and done that. The exception was it chose to fail 3,742 miles from home, Muncho Lake, British Columbia, Canada, 1 July 2000. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ Yeah, I remember that one. Definitely a lot worse than mine, or at least a bigger pain. I am afraid that I didn't do as well as Bob's friend though. I threw the wheel as far away as I could, then I had to go get it and take off the fitting from the gear leg and walk to the hanger reweld it back together. Then I was able to taxi to the hanger. At least the ground was soft enough that I didn't point the wheels in the air. Still getting sick to my stomach though. Larry ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:04:17 PM PST US From: ross richardson Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Lost mold strut faring That is good information for those that are thinking about or have made the ir own parts. You might consider using hot mud (joint compound/drywall mud) if you make a mistake or sand to much. The hot mud comes in 15, 30, 90 min . drying times so be ready to apply it when mixed. This way you won't have to wait 24 hrs for it to cure. From: mdnanwelch7@hotmail.comTo: kolb-list@matronics.comSubject: RE: Kolb-L ist: Lost mold strut faringDate: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 12:49:51 -0800 Kolb guys, First, thank you Uncle Craig for the lost mold tips. It w as very thoughtful of you to go to the trouble toshow us your handywork. I hope I'm not stepping on Uncle Craig's ideas, but I thought I would menti on a trick I use when working withmolds for making my own fiberglass parts. I use joint compound, the stuff they use for taping and texturing walls. It is cheap, phenominally easy to sculpt,and absolutely falls apart when exposed to water (meaning it cleans up easy). Similar to Uncle Craig, I'l l do a basic build-up with tape, thin woods strips, or whatever...just to g et close. Then, I layer on some joint compound, fairly thick..maybe more t han 1/2" thick. Let that set for about 24 hours, until it is nice and drie d out. Then you are ready to start shaping your piece. Your best sculptin g is done with the drywall sandpaper. It is made of heavy gauze and has ho les in it, because the joint compound sands so fast you get lots of residue ...quick. They have handheld sanding blocks. They work best. For curves and the like, just use the sandpaper loosely in your fingers, or wrapped ar ound a little sponge. Joint compound smooths so fast, you have to be care ful. You can shape something like a small fairing in a couple of minutes. If, for some reason you screw up, and sand off too much, no biggie!!! La yer a bit on, wait a day, and sand it again. Once you get that perfect sh ape you're after, put a thin coat of epoxy resin only, just to seal it. Af ter that is cured, rub a couple of coats of hard car wax, or even better, m old release wax, on the sculpted piece. You can now put a couple of layers (maybe 4-6) over the waxed sculpted shape and then let that cure. Now ca refully pry the outer fiberglass shell off the inner shape. You can now us e the outer fiberglass shell for building a finished product of the part th at's a copy of what's still on your plane. You'll need a few coats of mold release wax in the outer shell (the inner surfaces), and you're ready to b uild your part. Mike Welch PS. Another safe layer to use, at the beginning of your build-up, that may be quite a bit more resilient than plastic wrap , is to use aluminum foil. NO resins will eat it away, or otherwise seep t hrough and get to your plane beneath. Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. 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