---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 03/18/08: 33 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:29 AM - Re: 6 gallon tanks in a FS II (Jimmy Young) 2. 04:09 AM - Re: Re: New "Kolbee" ... New to the Forum (Dana Hague) 3. 04:09 AM - wing gap fence (william sullivan) 4. 04:25 AM - Re: wing gap fence (Dana Hague) 5. 05:06 AM - Re: Re: 6 gallon tanks in a FS II (John Hauck) 6. 05:14 AM - Re: wing gap fence (John Hauck) 7. 05:59 AM - TNK photo (william sullivan) 8. 06:09 AM - Re: Re: Firestar Versus Firefly (Russ Kinne) 9. 06:24 AM - fences (robert bean) 10. 06:44 AM - Re: Trailering a FireFly (David Kulp) 11. 06:58 AM - Re: Re: Firestar Versus Firefly (John Hauck) 12. 07:37 AM - Re: fuel system plumbing, aux tank (jb92563) 13. 08:18 AM - Headsets & Intercoms (Kirby, Dennis CTR USAF AFMC MDA/AL) 14. 08:49 AM - Re: Landing Stalls (Richard & Martha Neilsen) 15. 10:17 AM - Re: TNK photo (Dana Hague) 16. 10:44 AM - Re: TNK photo (John Hauck) 17. 02:09 PM - Re: TNK photo (Dana Hague) 18. 02:10 PM - TNK photo (william sullivan) 19. 02:30 PM - TNK Website (John Williamson) 20. 02:33 PM - Re: TNK photo (John Hauck) 21. 02:46 PM - Re: fences (planecrazzzy) 22. 02:46 PM - Re: TNK Website (John Hauck) 23. 02:49 PM - Re: Re: Firestar Versus Firefly (Denny Rowe) 24. 04:52 PM - Re: Landing Stalls (lucien) 25. 05:07 PM - Re: TNK Website (robert bean) 26. 05:16 PM - Re: TNK Website (John Hauck) 27. 05:18 PM - center section (william sullivan) 28. 05:23 PM - Re: TNK Website (herb) 29. 05:47 PM - Re: Takeoff & landing & stall help (grantr) 30. 06:06 PM - Re: Re: Takeoff & landing & stall help (John Hauck) 31. 06:27 PM - Re: center section (Dana Hague) 32. 06:32 PM - Re: Re: Takeoff & landing & stall help (Dana Hague) 33. 09:36 PM - Re: Takeoff & landing & stall help (lucien) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:29:22 AM PST US From: "Jimmy Young" Subject: Kolb-List: Re: 6 gallon tanks in a FS II Sorry about that folks, no picture came through. I'll go the Matronics photoshare route and try again. Jimmy ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:09:33 AM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: New "Kolbee" ... New to the Forum At 10:17 PM 3/17/2008, robert bean wrote: >I put the fences on after flying it with no center section. I could >tell a lot of lift was being lost. >The fences prevent spillage off the wing roots. I figure I have the >best arrangement due to >better airflow and less drag. Any airfoil that has an engine popping >up through it can't provide much lift. Interesting. Hard to tell from the pictures, it looks like they're only about 2" high, is that right? Surprising that such a low fence would have that much effect. Another plus is that you could leave a cutout in the root so you could see into the wing for inspection, and the lexan would cover it. Do they get in the way of folding the wings? -Dana -- I started out with nothing. I still have most of it left. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:09:36 AM PST US From: william sullivan Subject: Kolb-List: wing gap fence For a good picture of the wing root gap "fence", got to the TNK website and click on the Firestar ll. The photo is from overhead. do not archive Bill Sullivan Firestar Windsor Locks, Ct. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:25:12 AM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: wing gap fence At 07:04 AM 3/18/2008, william sullivan wrote: > For a good picture of the wing root gap "fence", got to the TNK website > and click on the Firestar ll. The photo is from overhead. All the photo links on that page seem to be broken. -Dana do not archive -- I started out with nothing. I still have most of it left. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:06:50 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: 6 gallon tanks in a FS II Jimmy: I got your photo on the previous post. john h mkIII Sorry about that folks, no picture came through. I'll go the Matronics photoshare route and try again. Jimmy ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:14:51 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: wing gap fence Hi Bill S: Take another look. I believe that is a clear lexan center section being sucked up off the wing instead of a wing root fence. john h mkIII For a good picture of the wing root gap "fence", got to the TNK website and click on the Firestar ll. The photo is from overhead. do not archive Bill Sullivan Firestar Windsor Locks, Ct. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:59:09 AM PST US From: william sullivan Subject: Kolb-List: TNK photo Dana- I just went to the TNK website, and on the left clicked on "Firestar ll", and it brought up the photo. Not the ones in the gallery. Try it again. do not archive Bill Sullivan Firestar l ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:09:56 AM PST US From: Russ Kinne Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Firestar Versus Firefly Don G nice job, nice video, impressive performance of a FF in 25 kn 90* xwind But you fly final & land at idle power? That's what I'd do but I'v e heard Kolbs should be flown onto the runway. Any comments? Russ On Mar 17, 2008, at 11:55 PM, Don G wrote: > > I have always believe the FireFly was about the best little > airplane at handling crosswinds of anything in the 500 lb > class....or maybe even 600 ponders... > If you want to see from the pilots seat how the Fly works in a 25 > knot 90 degree wind...take a look at the video on my brothers page > here > > http://www.dgmodels.rchomepage.com/index.htm > > its about halfway down....past the models.. > > Look close at the very begining at the windsock...standing straight > as a board...And the FireFly was completely predictable and no > sweat to control at all. > > there were 2 Firestar owners there that day...hanger mates , and > they both told me after I was done they would dare fly in this wind... > And for what its worth, My Kitfox speedster is 700 lbs empty and is > way too much of a handful on the ground to fly comfortably in the > same conditions. It will do it...but its a thrill....and more risky. > > FireStar land slower, and lifts more though, so for cross > country...it might be a better pick. with a 503 it oughtta be > almost as fast as a FFly. Hard to say. > I alway thought if I build another FireFly, I would not cut the > wing spar tube and leave it as shipped, which would add almost 2 > feet of wing.( 20 inchs if I remember right ..not quite a > FireStar...but all you would need is to add a rib on each side and > you make better use of the materials sent, and The Fly would land a > tad slower and haul a bit more without getting mushy...sort of a > cross between them.......... Splitting hairs maybe.... > > -------- > Don G. > Central Illinois > Kitfox IV Speedster > Luscombe 8A > > http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170554#170554 > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:24:19 AM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Kolb-List: fences Dana, since they are clear lexan they are difficult to photograph :) They are 1/8" and the same scratch resistant sheet that I used for the windshield and the doors. Remarkably I only had to buy one sheet for the whole plane. They are glued with GOOP to the root ends and are very secure. You can use them to lift the wings. I remove the wings every year and they require a bit more care in storage. The nose end of the wing has to be elevated so the fence hangs free. I'm sure a long period of weight would cause a permanent set. They extend roughly 2"" all around but not quite to the very rear. So far this season has been a non-starter, nursing an old dog back to health, getting the flu myself. Maybe next week I'll get started on the next modification. BB DSCN1164.JPG
________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:44:10 AM PST US From: "David Kulp" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Trailering a FireFly The section on Trailering a Kolb on my web site has examples of all these methods. Hopefully, this will help and others will offer views as well. Bottom line is you have to be comfortable with the method you choose. My $.02 worth which got me 1250 miles from Northern NJ to SW FL. Good luck with your new toy. (Hmmm a Firefly in a 28' trailer.... you'll be looking to sub-let the front 6 or so feet. ) :D -------- George Alexander((((((((((((((((((((((((((I hope this will separate my message below from the copied piece above))))))))))))))))))))))Thanks so much for those who, both on and off list, gave me some very worthwhile guidance about trailering my FF. It's greatly appreciated. And, George, that extra space in the nose of the trailer, I've been torn between renting it outor a bed roll, two dog beds, chair, table and cooking and refrigeration appliances. Maybe even a picture hanging on thewall...Dave Kulp ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:58:49 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Firestar Versus Firefly > But you fly final & land at idle power? That's what I'd do but I'v e > heard Kolbs should be flown onto the runway. > Any comments? > Russ Russ: Depends on whether or not you can fly the Kolb. I believe Don G made his first landing in a Kolb sitting in my left seat. Could be wrong. Memory is wore out. I like to fly final with no power. My thoughts are, if I fly final with power and I get used to it, when it goes away, I may come up short. 25 kt cross wind is well beyond the capabilities of my mkIII. Probably 15 mph would be more in the ball park for successful landings, using a shot of power to help power the rudder and get her straight on touch down. 25 kts and I'll land cross ways on the runway. I have been in situations where it was impossible to align the aircraft with the runway at altitude flying 85 mph IAS. No way to land at that airport, so find another that has a cross wind strip. Cross wind landings on grass are a piece of cake compared to windy, gusty conditions on pavement. With my wide main gear I can slide more sideways than roll forward. john h mkIII ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:37:17 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: fuel system plumbing, aux tank From: "jb92563" Best way to drill in thin plastic is with a hot nail or soldering iron. No shavings to worry about but it does take a little fiddling to get an exact size hole. I think that your "sucking air" is a valid concern and may actually manifest itself with your Y fitting as well if one tank drains before the other. I would suggest that you daisy chain all the tanks, where only the last highest tank in the chain(behind the seat) is vented and the others are airtight as they will nicely siphon each other down that way regardless of differing fuel tanks sizes. No messing with valves or trying to control fuel tanks while in flight with the daisy chain, its all automatic and ensures that every last drop of fuel from your other tanks ends up in the tank with the line to the engine. The other option would be to get a filter bowl and feed all 3 tanks into this collector/filter. I think putting T's and Y's in a fuel line is just asking for trouble. To many potential air leaks plus the sucking air bubbles problem when one tank runs out first at a T or Y fitting. -------- Ray Kolb UltraStar (Cuyuna UL-202) Moni MotorGlider Schreder HP-11 Glider Riverside County, CA Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170624#170624 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:18:39 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Headsets & Intercoms From: "Kirby, Dennis CTR USAF AFMC MDA/AL" (NOTE - "Subject" line has been changed, to reflect current thread.) Dana wrote: << Funny, though, my Comtronics helmet works perfectly with my Icom A24 radio, which also supposedly works with GA headsets. >> Hi, Dana - You are right. And that's what I discovered also: My Comtronics helmet worked fine with either my Terra or Sporty's handheld radios, using the one-plug-into-two-jacks splitter. (Contronics headsets are designed with a single plug.) It's the Comtronics intercom box that won't work with regular GA headsets. And speaking of Intercoms - I'm in the market for a simple, good-quality, 2-place intercom. I'm considering the Flightcom portable intercom ($122 from Aircraft Spruce). It's advertised as "the world's most popular 2 place intercom." Any recommendations, pro or con? Thanks - Dennis Kirby Mark-3 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:49:12 AM PST US From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Landing Stalls David/All I need to proof read better. Actually I expected someone to react more to the suggestion of using flaps. When I told my check ride instructor about it he said NO!!!! you never ever retract flaps on final. OK some common sense. First, don't do this while nibbling at stall. Also, I like to stabilize my approach on short final, so short final.... not real short. There is a somewhat common myth that you will stall if you retract your flaps on final. Think about it, when you raise your flaps you are effectively reducing the angle of attack of the wing. It is angle of attack that causes a stall. In a Kolb when you raise the flaps on final you will get a bit of pitch up trim change and the plane will increase speed rather quickly. As the speed increases you will want to raise the nose a bit to keep your speed under control but don't over control. Practice this a bit at altitude. Set up a high altitude approach. Lower your flaps and lower the nose of your plane. Raise the flaps and raise the nose. Try to keep your approach speed constant. Notice the change in the potential landing point. It works well and no, the plane never comes close to stalling. A few years ago I had a engine out on the way back form Oshkosh. I had practiced the variable flap approach and had discussed a no flap engine out landing with the Kolb guys in the Ultralight campground so I had a plan fixed in my mind when it happened. I picked a landing spot and used the flaps to put me exactly where I wanted to land. I never locked the flaps in any notch but used it like someone would use a throttle to adjust my glide slope. When I had my landing spot made I fully retracted my flaps and made one of my best landings ever. Yes I could have landed slower with flaps but I'm not that great a pilot and landing with no power and no flaps is just like landing with one notch of flaps and some power. I normally land with some power and one notch of flaps. In an emergency why make it more difficult? When you have and engine out you don't have a throttle to adjust your glide slope. So why not practice what you might need someday. Also changing throttle settings especially increasing the throttle on final isn't a real good idea IF there is a better way. Yes it is the same sport. Again worth what you paid for it. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC ----- Original Message ----- From: David Key To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 3:26 PM Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Landing Stalls That makes a ton of sence, a lot more than I expected. I'd have to digest it for a altering my opinion. But I also have to disagree about changing the flap setting on short final, particulary retracting them if you are short. I adjusting power to adjust desired landing point. You'd think we were in different sports. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- From: NeilsenRM@comcast.net To: kolb-list@matronics.com Subject: Kolb-List: Landing Stalls Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 12:07:01 -0400 The best part of this list is the way we share ideas. Also could we all just call it a "stall" that is really what it is. My understanding is that new pilots have a problem with how quickly these planes slow from flying speed to a stall. There is also the comfort level of seeing a rather panoramic view of the ground coming up at them real fast. This is a fault of a Kolb (so to speak) because it has such great visibility. The result is that people have this inborn and in the case of GA pilots "training " that has them fairing too high. Some new flyer just E-mailed us about this very issue very accurately describing it. I think that new pilots should set up their approach that has the lowest decent rate/angle and gives the new pilot them most time to pull up and adjust to a good landing flair. This can best be accomplished with no flaps and some power. Flaps do two things, they increase the decent rate/angle and they increase the rate of speed that these planes slow down. You can set up gentle approach with flaps but you have to greatly increase the power accomplish it. The main problem is loosing power on approach would be a bad thing. The more power you have to depend on the worse it could be. Flaps also produce more drag than they reduce stall speed. Using flaps will slow the plane quicker than the reduced stall speed will help. Also someone suggested using slips and throttle to get to their desired landing point. Slips are less effective than flaps so why not use flaps. adjusting power, primarily increasing power greatly increases the odds of a power failure. I believe the rule is that if you change the throttle on approach it should only be to reduced power. Flaps can be moved in and out as necessary on approach to get to your desired landing point. You just have to adjust your pitch according to your flap usage. As always worth what you paid for it. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIC ----- Original Message ----- From: David Key To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 12:01 AM Subject: RE: Kolb-List: New "Kolbee" ... New to the Forum Because the dreaded Kolb drop, or stall is what it used to be called occurs a little later and a little slower which gives the pilot a little more time to make adjustments in the landing environment. Kolb steering is a bit easier to tackle the slower you are going. It's the way that I would teach it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: NeilsenRM@comcast.net To: kolb-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: New "Kolbee" ... New to the Forum Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 22:42:15 -0400 David Ok. So tell us why. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIC ----- Original Message ----- From: David Key To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 9:34 PM Subject: RE: Kolb-List: New "Kolbee" ... New to the Forum I respectfully disagree with the idea that you should not use flaps on landing. -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: NeilsenRM@comcast.net To: kolb-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: New "Kolbee" ... New to the Forum Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 14:10:28 -0400 Joe As Ed has suggested your biggest problem is landing. Your experience will serve you poorly. On your first landings keep the power maybe on 25% till you are within less than a foot of the ground. Then and only then cut the power. Also don't use flaps at all. As you get more experience SLOWLY reduce the power you set for approach or set one notch of flap. Don't do both at the same time. In fact you may be better off adding a bit more power the first time you use one notch of flaps. Some of us still carry some power with lots of experience. I like to carry some power because landing with one notch of flaps with some power will feel just like no power (engine out) with no flaps. I know this first hand. Some of us never use full flaps other than for brief periods on approach to hit the landing point you want. There is one of our members that uses full flaps and power off on all his landings but I would wait for that after your first thousand landings and even then approach it with added power. There will be those that will tell you I'm being too conservative but most GA pilots will have problems if they move too fast to flaps and no power. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIC ----- Original Message ----- From: DAquaNut@aol.com To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 1:44 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: New "Kolbee" ... New to the Forum Joe, Welcome to the list. congrats on your new Kolb . The biggest difference between your Kolb and what you are used to, is it has more drag and slows down quickly. You dont want to flare it until you are close to the ground. The closer the better. Actually you hardly flare at all. Just fly it to about a foot off the ground and back of the throttle. If you flare like a conventional craft you are asking for trouble. Good Luck, Ed Diebel ( Firefly 62 In Houston) 80* today ------------------------------------------------------------------ It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Kolb-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List p://forums.matronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Kolb-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List p://forums.matronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Kolb-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List p://forums.matronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:17:43 AM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: TNK photo At 08:56 AM 3/18/2008, william sullivan wrote: >Dana- I just went to the TNK website, and on the left clicked on "Firestar >ll", and it brought up the photo. Not the ones in the gallery. Try it again. We must be looking at different websites... :o -Dana -- I love my country, but I fear my government. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:44:27 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: TNK photo > We must be looking at different websites... :o > > -Dana http://www.kolbsport.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=26&Itemid=52 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 02:09:25 PM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: TNK photo At 01:38 PM 3/18/2008, John Hauck wrote: > > > > We must be looking at different websites... :o >> >>-Dana > > >http://www.kolbsport.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=26&Itemid=52 > Ah HA. I was looking at http://tnkolbaircraft.com/ ... which I guess is the "old" website... -Dana -- Daddy, why doesn't this magnet pick up this floppy disk? ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 02:10:23 PM PST US From: william sullivan Subject: Kolb-List: TNK photo John and Dana- Yes, that is the photo I was referring to. It appears to have something on the top edge of the wing at the wing root, as well as a cross tube between the wings. Maybe TNK can clarify, but it does resemble the Lexan guides referred to earlier. Bill Sullivan FS l ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 02:30:40 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: TNK Website From: "John Williamson" Hi All, The current TNK website is at: http://www.tnkolbaircraft.com/ The "www" needs to be there or you will get the old website. If you haven't visited the website in a while, check back in. Disregard the "Login Form" blocks, that is for their internal use as of now. If you haven't voted in their poll, please do so. I know that the Kolbra dosen't out number the rest of you. If you find a broken link or a link that takes you to what appears to be an incorrect location, email them with the specific problem so Donnie and Travis have some meat to work with when they tell their webmaster. We are getting a little rain here in Texas today but should be flyable tomorrow afternoon. do not archive -------- John Williamson Arlington, TX Kolbra, 912ULS, 1580 hours http://home.tx.rr.com/kolbrapilot Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170758#170758 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 02:33:29 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: TNK photo Bill S: That is the lexan center section/gap seal being sucked off the wings you are looking at in the photo. That is not an air dam. The center section is being lifted off the wings giving the initial perception that it might be an air dam. I know this airplane and have personally inspected this aircraft which was built and is flown by Kip Laurie. john h mkIII ----- Original Message ----- From: william sullivan To: kolb list Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 4:08 PM Subject: Kolb-List: TNK photo John and Dana- Yes, that is the photo I was referring to. It appears to have something on the top edge of the wing at the wing root, as well as a cross tube between the wings. Maybe TNK can clarify, but it does resemble the Lexan guides referred to earlier. Bill Sullivan FS l ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 02:46:25 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: fences From: "planecrazzzy" Hey Bob , Those Doors look mighty good ! .. .. Gotta Fly... Mike & "Jaz" in MN .. .. . -------- .. .. .. .. .. Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170767#170767 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 02:46:55 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: TNK Website > We are getting a little rain here in Texas today but should be flyable tomorrow afternoon. > > do not archive > > -------- > John Williamson John W: How come you all are sending all that rain to Alabama? Loaded up the 5th wheel and heading back to TNK in the morning. Will be there long enough to fly the initial 40 hours off the new MKIIIx. Would rather be flying back, but am more comfortable in the old 5th wheel for the long haul. Hope to get the time flown off in time for the Xtra to fly at S&F. The new X sports full flaps, oh horror, that will make it a damn good lander, especially in an emergency situation that has but a tiny LZ to land in. It also has morse cable for aileron controls instead of the traditional push/pull tubes. It looks a little narrower than the older model X's. Will also sport droop tips. I'll put some time on the X without the new tips, then finish up the test with them. Weather is going to be on again/off again, but I think I can get'er done. Internet access is limited and extremely slow, but I'll have lots of time at night to wait on it to come through. Take care, john h - Soon to have more time on the new X than Patrick has on his X. ;-) That is, if it will fly and I don't fly it mkIII into the hanger first. ;-) ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 02:49:15 PM PST US From: "Denny Rowe" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Firestar Versus Firefly Russ, I have never landed my Mk-3 with more than idle power on short final. Denny Rowe ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 04:52:43 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Landing Stalls From: "lucien" NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net wrote: > David/All > > I need to proof read better. > > Actually I expected someone to react more to the suggestion of using flaps. When I told my check ride instructor about it he said NO!!!! you never ever retract flaps on final. OK some common sense. First, don't do this while nibbling at stall. Also, I like to stabilize my approach on short final, so short final.... not real short. > I actually had never used the technique of retracting the flaps on the landing approach until it was showed to me on my BFR last year. It was in the 172 and the situation was simulated engine out and I'd put too much flaps in to make the landing spot. He told me to take 10 degs out and see what happened...... Now I do it all the time in the titan in case I'm coming up short with too much flaps out and I'm practicing energy management (i.e. don't want to add power). It works perfectly and makes sense as well - if you have too much drag, but you have enough potential energy (altitude) to make the landing with a lower drag config... why not reconfigure to the lower drag config? Another interesting exercise is to do a low fly by in the flare attitude and at a little above landing speeds with the flaps out. Then slowly start nursing the flaps up but continue to maintain altitude (a foot or two). A real eye opener which really tests your abilities with the power and elevator..... There, that ought to start some flame mail ;) LS -------- LS FS II Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170788#170788 ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 05:07:49 PM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: TNK Website John, I'm sure several of us will be interested in the droop tip comparison. I don't have a high regard for them mostly because the industry seems to have gone the other way with winglets. My guess is that you will notice very little difference except perhaps at stall OOGE. BB do not archive On 18, Mar 2008, at 5:44 PM, John Hauck wrote: > > > > We are getting a little rain here in Texas today but should be > flyable tomorrow afternoon. >> >> do not archive >> >> -------- >> John Williamson > > > John W: > > How come you all are sending all that rain to Alabama? > > Loaded up the 5th wheel and heading back to TNK in the morning. > Will be there long enough to fly the initial 40 hours off the new > MKIIIx. Would rather be flying back, but am more comfortable in > the old 5th wheel for the long haul. Hope to get the time flown > off in time for the Xtra to fly at S&F. > > The new X sports full flaps, oh horror, that will make it a damn > good lander, especially in an emergency situation that has but a > tiny LZ to land in. > > It also has morse cable for aileron controls instead of the > traditional push/pull tubes. > > It looks a little narrower than the older model X's. > > Will also sport droop tips. I'll put some time on the X without > the new tips, then finish up the test with them. > > > Weather is going to be on again/off again, but I think I can get'er > done. > > Internet access is limited and extremely slow, but I'll have lots > of time at night to wait on it to come through. > > Take care, > > john h - Soon to have more time on the new X than Patrick has on > his X. ;-) That is, if it will fly and I don't fly it mkIII > into the hanger first. ;-) > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 05:16:51 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: TNK Website > My guess is that you will notice very little difference except > perhaps at stall OOGE. > > BB Bob: I don't know. I have no experience flying anything with droop tips. I am a Kolb kinda guy. I think the wing panel is about the same length as standard by adding another rib to compensate for the old bow tip. I'm guessing now. I haven't seen the plans for the wing. john h mkIII ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 05:18:28 PM PST US From: william sullivan Subject: Kolb-List: center section Thanks, John. I could see a white line on one side that looked like an edge. I have to do something about a gap seal, and am looking for ideas. Bill Sullivan FS l ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 05:23:03 PM PST US From: herb Subject: Re: Kolb-List: TNK Website I think Homer knew Steve Whitman...:-) Herb At 07:05 PM 3/18/2008, you wrote: > >John, I'm sure several of us will be interested in the droop tip >comparison. I don't have a high >regard for them mostly because the industry seems to have gone the >other way with winglets. > >My guess is that you will notice very little difference except >perhaps at stall OOGE. > >BB >do not archive > >On 18, Mar 2008, at 5:44 PM, John Hauck wrote: > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 05:47:50 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Takeoff & landing & stall help From: "grantr" I have had a few good comments and tips. Does anyone else want to chime in? Come on guys i know you all have some sort of technique. :) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170803#170803 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 06:06:09 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Takeoff & landing & stall help > I have had a few good comments and tips. Does anyone else want to chime in? Come on guys i know you all have some sort of technique. :) Grant: I don't think there is any "special" techinique to fly a Kolb. I think the name of the game is to fly the aircraft and not let the aircraft fly you. Using 40 degrees of flaps, idle power, to shoot an approach is not technically demanding. Got to keep the aircraft above stall speed with enough speed at the bottom to do a little flare and touch down. No need to adjust flaps, throttle, or anything else except the control stick. If you need to go faster, push the stick forward, if you want to slow up, pull it back. The approach will be steep, much steeper than other airplanes, more like a rotary wing approach and landing. If you were shooting a landing into a postage stamp field, use a little throttle to help you hit your mark. I can do this and keep my left hand on the throttle and my right hand on the stick. I am not busy moving my hand from one control to another. Keep it simple. It is a very simple aircraft. Why make it complex? Kolbs fly like any other three axis aircraft. The pilot must make the proper decision to control the aircraft and not vice versa. If you want to do full stall landings, do them a few inches above the ground, not 10 feet. If you want to do a wheel landing, fly the darn thing onto the ground. I flew a Legend Cub the other day with a 100 hp tractor engine. Darn thing landed just like my Kolb MKIII. Granted, it did float a little more, but basically I controlled it basically the same way. I very seldom fly any other aircraft except Kolbs. john h mkIII ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 06:27:15 PM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: center section At 08:15 PM 3/18/2008, william sullivan wrote: > I have to do something about a gap seal, and am looking for ideas. Bill, your choice of a gap seal will be influenced by whether or not you'll be folding the wings often. I fold all the time, and the original gap seal was missing when I bought the plane, so I made a simple gap seal out of heavy gauge clear plastic (the kind they use for windows in convertible tops), and attach it to the wings with 2" wide velcro. Some pix at: http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v486/flyparafan/Kolb/ It goes on easy, seems to be holding up fine, and doesn't block my visibility. -Dana -- "You sure it's broken? Let me make sure..." ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 06:32:14 PM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Takeoff & landing & stall help At 09:03 PM 3/18/2008, John Hauck wrote: >I flew a Legend Cub the other day with a 100 hp tractor engine. Darn >thing landed just like my Kolb MKIII. Granted, it did float a little >more, but basically I controlled it basically the same way. Interesting, when I flew my US for the first time I thought it handled very much like the T-Craft I used to own (and, pleasantly, NOT like the Quick I had recently been flying). The biggest difference was that slips in the T-Craft actually _did_ something. I wonder, has anybody ever added flapperons to an UltraStar? -Dana -- "You sure it's broken? Let me make sure..." ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 09:36:59 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Takeoff & landing & stall help From: "lucien" grantr wrote: > I have had a few good comments and tips. Does anyone else want to chime in? Come on guys i know you all have some sort of technique. :) Well I can relate my FS II time, hopefully some of which will be pertinent to the mark III. It definitely is a tailwheel airplane, tho it's quite docile, so it certainly can get wild on you if ithe tail goes ape in one direction or the other. I had one or two of the back/forth takeoffs in the FS II when I was very early on with it, tho fortunately didn't get off the runway or anything. Differential braking saved the bacon on one of the takeoffs. Slowly applying throttle helps a great deal and was the technique used since then. As for the landing, the FS II in particular is a low-inertia design, so it lands a lot more like an ultralight than the big iron. You run out of energy pretty quick in the roundout and flare, but you don't necessarily have to drive it onto the runway either (unless you're wheel landing it in some wind). I'd try a slower roundout to get a good idea of what things should look like at first. Assist that with a little bit of power to simulate a higher-inertia plane to slow the roundout down. Do this for a while to get used to it. Then start practicing without power for the real deal... As for the stall, I don't recall there being anything strange about it, it's very conventional with no surprises. The FS II does give you all the warning signs, mushy controls, lightness in the butt, suddenly lots quieter, just like any other plane, but only for a very short time. Don't blink or you'll miss em! Again, typical of low-inertia planes. LS -------- LS FS II Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170838#170838 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.