Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:09 AM - Re: Firestar Project (possums)
2. 04:23 AM - Firestar project (william sullivan)
3. 04:50 AM - Re: Firestar project (Dana Hague)
4. 04:50 AM - Re: Fly-in at Homer's (Dana Hague)
5. 05:20 AM - Florida Flying (Dan Walter)
6. 06:24 AM - Re: Fly-in at Homer's (Travis Brown (Kolb Aircraft))
7. 06:48 AM - Re: Re: MKIII X (Jack B. Hart)
8. 07:04 AM - Setting up your wing incidences (Mike Welch)
9. 07:16 AM - Re: Firestar project (possums)
10. 07:18 AM - Re: Fly-in at Homer's (Gary Thacker)
11. 07:21 AM - Re: Fly-in at Homer's (TK)
12. 07:23 AM - fuel tank (william sullivan)
13. 07:25 AM - Re: Re: MKIII X (Mike Welch)
14. 07:28 AM - address (william sullivan)
15. 08:04 AM - Re: fuel system plumbing, aux tank (jb92563)
16. 08:06 AM - Horizontal stabilizer mounting (Mike Welch)
17. 08:10 AM - Re: MKIII X (JetPilot)
18. 08:21 AM - Re: fuel system plumbing, aux tank (JetPilot)
19. 08:35 AM - Re: Re: fuel system plumbing, aux tank (Mike Welch)
20. 08:36 AM - Re: Re: MKIII X (Travis Brown (Kolb Aircraft))
21. 08:44 AM - Re: Horizontal stabilizer mounting (Travis Brown (Kolb Aircraft))
22. 09:02 AM - Re: Horizontal stabilizer mounting (JetPilot)
23. 09:09 AM - Re: Re: fuel system plumbing, aux tank (Travis Brown (Kolb Aircraft))
24. 09:16 AM - Re: Re: MKIII X (Mike Welch)
25. 09:35 AM - wing and hor stab incidences (Mike Welch)
26. 09:58 AM - Re: address (Dana Hague)
27. 09:58 AM - Re: MKIII X (Wade Lawicki)
28. 10:08 AM - Re: Fly-in at Homer's (Dana Hague)
29. 10:19 AM - Re: Re: MKIII X (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
30. 10:25 AM - Re: Re: MKIII X (pj.ladd)
31. 10:30 AM - Re: MKIII X (JetPilot)
32. 10:46 AM - Re: Re: MKIII X (Mike Welch)
33. 10:55 AM - Re: Re: MKIII X (Mike Welch)
34. 11:08 AM - Re: Re: MKIII X (Travis Brown (Kolb Aircraft))
35. 11:11 AM - Re: wing and hor stab incidences (ElleryWeld@aol.com)
36. 11:21 AM - Re: Re: MKIII X (Travis Brown (Kolb Aircraft))
37. 11:49 AM - Re: Re: MKIII X (possums)
38. 12:39 PM - Re: Firestar Project (jb92563)
39. 12:50 PM - Re: Re: MKIII X (beauford T)
40. 12:52 PM - Re: Ultrastar questions (jb92563)
41. 12:53 PM - Re: Re: MKIII X (Mike Welch)
42. 01:05 PM - Re: Fly-in at Homer's (TK)
43. 02:05 PM - Re: wing and hor stab incidences (Eugene Zimmerman)
44. 02:05 PM - 6 inch wheels (Mark Shimei)
45. 02:19 PM - Re: Re: Ultrastar questions (Eugene Zimmerman)
46. 02:56 PM - Re: Re: MKIII X (Dana Hague)
47. 02:58 PM - Re: Firestar project (Larry Bourne)
48. 03:00 PM - Re: Fly-in at Homer's (Dana Hague)
49. 03:04 PM - Re: Fly-in at Homer's (Dana Hague)
50. 03:05 PM - New Firefly (N27SB@aol.com)
51. 03:05 PM - Re: Re: Ultrastar questions (Dana Hague)
52. 03:14 PM - Re: New Firefly (N27SB@aol.com)
53. 03:17 PM - Re: Re: Ultrastar questions (Dana Hague)
54. 04:59 PM - Re: wing and hor stab incidences (ElleryWeld@aol.com)
55. 05:09 PM - Re: New Firefly (Jim ODay)
56. 05:29 PM - Re: New Firefly (Jim ODay)
57. 05:29 PM - Firestar project (william sullivan)
58. 05:37 PM - Re: Re: New Firefly (N27SB@aol.com)
59. 05:37 PM - Re: fuel tank (WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com)
60. 05:45 PM - Firestar Project-AOI (william sullivan)
61. 05:57 PM - Re: New Firefly (Jim ODay)
62. 06:08 PM - Re: fuel tank (WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com)
63. 06:11 PM - The Numbers Don't Lie (John Williamson)
64. 06:31 PM - Mark III Landing gear wheel alignment (grantr)
65. 06:53 PM - Re: The Numbers Don't Lie (ElleryWeld@aol.com)
66. 07:14 PM - Re: Mark III Landing gear wheel alignment (ElleryWeld@aol.com)
67. 07:17 PM - Re: Mark III Landing gear wheel alignment (Jack B. Hart)
68. 07:21 PM - Re: Re: New Firefly (Dana Hague)
69. 07:21 PM - Re: Re: New Firefly (Dana Hague)
70. 08:10 PM - Re: Firestar Project (R. Hankins)
71. 08:10 PM - Re: The Numbers Don't Lie (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
72. 08:30 PM - Re: The Numbers Don't Lie (John Williamson)
73. 08:40 PM - Re: Mark III Landing gear wheel alignment (Wade Lawicki)
74. 10:17 PM - KX plans (william sullivan)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Firestar Project |
At 11:22 PM 3/23/2008, you wrote:
>Possums- That is a lot more FS than I have. I see wheel pants,
>brakes(?), double struts- front streamlined- and a radio antenna.
>Mine has single, round aluminum struts. My windshield just flexes,
>no hinge. The KXP wings on mine are full length-27' plus. It's hard
>to see your LG legs
> Take off all the extras and I bet you would weigh about the same-
> if you have the 5 rib wings. My spare wing set- the originals- are
> 5 rib "clipped" wings. Probably close to Firefly wingspan. If I
> repair and switch out I can add extras.
>My windshield just flexes like your's, no hinges too. Brakes - yes,
>double struts - (don't need them) - uless you're are going to do
loops for everybody to watch on "YouTube".
The KXP wings on mine are (not) full length-they are 27' 6" with 8 ribs.
No.... I could not weigh about the same.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Firestar project |
Possums- You said you have 8 rib wings. Are you counting the ends? Travis told
me not to count the ends, only the full ribs in between. Mine are 27'6", 5 ribs,
3 false ribs in between, and 1 false rib outboard of the last rib. I don't
know for sure that they are from a KXP, but assume so because of the mounts being
2 1/2" shorter than a newer Firestar. The rear mount is a big, heavy lug that
had to be ground to fit the u-joint. I also had to slide it in about an inch,
rotate, and re-drill the hole in the inspection panel in order to get the
wings straight. This allowed me to saw off about an inch of the very heavy tube
on the lugs with no loss of strength.
When I first put the wings on, the tips were forward a couple of inches in a
"V" shape. I could have extended the front mount- adding weight- or do what I
did, cutting weight. I still have to do a CG, but with the Firestar's large gross
weight of 725 I think I have a lot of lee way.
One thing I don't like that is not a problem for local flying. I need a box
or step ladder to put gas in it. The tank is mounted high, and is hard to access
with the wings in the flying position. The tank is still 10 gallon, and I
will put a limiting tube in the filler, as suggested by someone on the list. At
least until I get a 5 gallon. I don't see an easy way to change the tank. Looks
like the cage was built around it- a very tight fit. Looks like more Stits
work.
Re: Ceiling. I live at 60 feet MSL, and smoke, and am a former welder. I have
never (other than an airliner) been above 2000', other than 1/2 hour on Mt.
Washington. I guess I'll keep it slow and low- like me, now pushing 60.
Bill Sullivan
FS/KXP
Windsor Locks, Ct.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Firestar project |
At 07:21 AM 3/24/2008, william sullivan wrote:
> One thing I don't like that is not a problem for local flying. I need a
> box or step ladder to put gas in it. The tank is mounted high, and is
> hard to access with the wings in the flying position. The tank is still
> 10 gallon, and I will put a limiting tube in the filler, as suggested by
> someone on the list. At least until I get a 5 gallon. I don't see an easy
> way to change the tank. Looks like the cage was built around it- a very
> tight fit. Looks like more Stits work.
As long as you're _absolutely_ certain that you can get the 5 gallon tank
in, you could cut the old one up to get it out...
-Dana
--
"Hiking is just walking where it's ok to pee.....
Sometimes old people hike on accident....."
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Fly-in at Homer's |
At 12:15 PM 3/22/2008, TK wrote:
>Kolb List members,
>
>I've been in contact with Clara and Homer Kolb and they have agreed to
>again host a fly-in at their farm...
Is anybody flying down from south NY or north NJ? I'd love to meet up at
Smoketown and/or go to Shreveport afterwards but that's too far in the
wrong direction for me (I'm in CT). As it is I'll most likely trailer my
plane all the way to Homer's. I assume there's no camping at Homer's?
-Dana
--
"Hiking is just walking where it's ok to pee.....
Sometimes old people hike on accident....."
Message 5
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Hey Guys, I am taking a week trip to Ft. Lauderdale, Anybody Flying in
that area? I can probably get enough time to say hello or fly if it's
not too far away. any suggestions? I would like to take an hour with an
instructor or rent if possible or just site see. Thanks.
Dan Walter
Ultrastar
Druine Turbulent
Palmyra, PA.
Do Not Archive
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Fly-in at Homer's |
Dana: Doesn't pay to assume anything around here.
You may camp at Homer's. Several of us flying up from the South and
West will be camping there.
john h
mkIII
Labhart Field, KY - Weather is still "sucking" this morning. Snowed
last night and looks like snow this morning. Present temp is 33F and
severely overcast.....................
I assume there's no camping at Homer's?
-Dana
Message 7
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At 01:39 PM 3/23/08 -0700, you wrote:
>.....................
>On my MK III Xtra, I had a pitch down trim condition and had to change the
incidence on my Horizontal Stabilizer to 7.5 degrees down, almost double of
what Kolb specifies. I also had to put trim tabs on with a bit of up trim
to spread the load over horizontal stab and elevators evenly. It will now
fly great with stock springs. Attached are pictures...
>.............................
Mike,
What is the angle difference between the bottom of the wing and the
horizontal stabilizer? This difference relationship is what is important.
In the FireFly the distance from the boom tube front mounting ring to the
cage cross hole is very short. This being so, a small cross hole offset or
warp in the cage can make a large difference at the tail position.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
Message 8
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| Subject: | Setting up your wing incidences |
I changed the subject line to reflect the proper subject matter. Mike W
Mike B.
A few weeks back I requested information regarding wing incidences and ho
rizontal
stabilizer incidences on MkIII Xtras. A good chap in England (John Codd) w
as kind enough to
furnish the readings on 2 of the local Xtras. I also talked to Brian, at T
NK Tech Support, and
received the reading for the new Xtra (likely the one John H. is flying bet
ween rain drops), plus
yours.
If I recall correctly, your readings were "off the most" from the average
s. I absolutely concur
with Mike & "Jaz", and Steve B., I think your incidences are possibly off a
little, which MAY be
fighting each other.
I have all the results of the readings of John Codd and Brian if you want
them. Just let me know.
If I were you, I would investigate this situation with a vengeance, and tho
roughly establish that
your wings are rigged 100% properly.
My impression is a MkIII Xtra with a 100 hp motor should be able to fly f
aster than just 85 mph.
Just my opinion, but "sumptin's up!!". Oh, and change that h.s. fitting!!
Like Steve said, if that failed,
you're toast!!
Mike Welch
From: N27SB@aol.comDate: Sun, 23 Mar 2008 21:57:01 -0400Subject: Re: Kolb-L
ist: Re: MKIII XTo: kolb-list@matronics.com
In a message dated 3/23/2008 8:31:31 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, planecrazz
zy@yahoo.com writes:
king at the bracket picture....You've got Steel brackets....Stainless Steel
angle brackets... Then you make an aluminum connection ??You've even got
the aluminum "Scored" in it's weakest point....?Gotta Fly...Mike & "Jaz" in
MN ...--------.Mike, I have to agree with M&J here. Your modified Hor Sta
b bracket is of concern. You also appear to be using extensive trim tabs to
offset the very low setting. You seem to have made two changes that are fi
ghting each other.
If you are convinced that your changes work then at least let Dennis at TN
K weld up something that is secure. A failure of that bracket would be fata
l....Do Not Archive
Steve BFirefly 007/Floatsdo not archive
Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.
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Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Firestar project |
At 07:21 AM 3/24/2008, you wrote:
>Possums- You said you have 8 rib wings. Are you counting the ends?
Mine's all weirded out. Use to have a 5 rib Firestar, but all I got
let of it is the old nose cone, some hardware and the stick.
http://www.mindspring.com/~possums/
Message 10
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| Subject: | Fly-in at Homer's |
Can someone give me the dates for the flyin at Homer's?
Thanks
GarySouderton,Pa.
From: travis@tnkolbaircraft.comTo: kolb-list@matronics.comSubject: Re: Kolb
-List: Fly-in at Homer'sDate: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 09:37:17 -0400
Dana: Doesn't pay to assume anything around here.
You may camp at Homer's. Several of us flying up from the South and West w
ill be camping there.
john h
mkIII
Labhart Field, KY - Weather is still "sucking" this morning. Snowed last n
ight and looks like snow this morning. Present temp is 33F and severely ov
ercast.....................
I assume there's no camping at Homer's?-Dana
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Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Fly-in at Homer's |
Dana Hague wrote:
> At 12:15 PM 3/22/2008, TK wrote:
>> Kolb List members,
>>
>> I've been in contact with Clara and Homer Kolb and they have agreed
>> to again host a fly-in at their farm...
>
> Is anybody flying down from south NY or north NJ? I'd love to meet up
> at Smoketown and/or go to Shreveport afterwards but that's too far in
> the wrong direction for me (I'm in CT). As it is I'll most likely
> trailer my plane all the way to Homer's. I assume there's no camping
> at Homer's?
>
> -Dana
Dana,
Scott Olendorf, a member of this list has flown down several times from
upper NY state. I think he will be done with his recovering by then,
might want to talk to him. He has also flown to Shreveport North
several times.
Terry - FireFly #95
Message 12
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Dana- I think I will get the tank before I decide what to do. the 10 gallon tank
is mounted high, over the BRS. The BRS is fully enclosed, and fires out the
side through the fabric. maybe I can access through the seat back, but I think
there is a strut in the way.
Bill
FS/KXP
Windsor Locks, Ct.
Message 13
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Jack,
I think I just figured out Mike B wing angle setting problem. After talk
ing to Brian @ TNK Tech Support, awhile back,
he explained to me that with the redesign of the Xtra's wedge nose, this pr
oduced a huge "nose
down" phenomenon, when compared to higher setting for a Classic, hence the
relocation angle of the main wings, compared to a Classic. I am under the
impression Mike B's wings are too high, pitching down the fuselage wedge, a
nd requiring a significant deviation of the hor. stab.'s angle from normal.
The incidence measurements I got from Brian SHOULD be what Mike B's plane
should be set at.
Mike Welch
> Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 09:44:37 -0500> To: kolb-list@matronics.com> From:
jbhart@onlyinternet.net> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: MKIII X> > --> Kolb-L
ist message posted by: "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart@onlyinternet.net>> > At 01:39
<orcabonita@hotmail.com>> >.....................> >On my MK III Xtra, I ha
d a pitch down trim condition and had to change the > incidence on my Horiz
ontal Stabilizer to 7.5 degrees down, almost double of > what Kolb specifie
s. I also had to put trim tabs on with a bit of up trim > to spread the loa
d over horizontal stab and elevators evenly. It will now > fly great with s
tock springs. Attached are pictures...> >.............................> > M
ike,> > What is the angle difference between the bottom of the wing and the
> horizontal stabilizer? This difference relationship is what is important
. > In the FireFly the distance from the boom tube front mounting ring to t
he > cage cross hole is very short. This being so, a small cross hole offse
t or > warp in the cage can make a large difference at the tail position.>
===============> > >
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Message 14
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Dana- Where are you in Ct.?
do not archive
Bill Sullivan
FS/KXP
Windsor Locks, Ct.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: fuel system plumbing, aux tank |
In everything aircraft I take the RISK approach.
The fewer points of failure you introduce into a system the less likely it is to
fail.
Points of potential failure in a fuel system are:
Valves, T's(Fittings of any kind ie couplers, quick disconnects etc), filters,
pumps, electrical, and of course the operator.
Failures in the above result from:
Vibration, cracks, corrosion, air leaks, blockage, electrical failure(Loose wire
or poor continuity), material failures due to age, heat, cold, brittleness,
flexibility or lack of it(Kinked lines or cracking ones), distracted operator
etc.
You get the picture....!
What ever you do just keep the points of failure to the absolute minimum that you
can live with.
And remember that inconvenience on the GROUND is infinitely LESS RISKY than a problem
in the AIR.
--------
Ray
Kolb UltraStar (Cuyuna UL-202)
Moni MotorGlider
Schreder HP-11 Glider
Riverside County, CA
Do Not Archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172207#172207
Message 16
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| Subject: | Horizontal stabilizer mounting |
Mike B.
I just went back and examined your modification to the hor. stab. mount.
OH MY GOD!!! You used aluminum (!!!) to relocate that position!! And you
had to
notch it, to boot. I would red tag your plane immediately, if I was an FAA
inspector!!
If one of those aluminum straps let go, it would place an enormous amount
of twisting
force on on the one remaining, with a likely failure of the second one almo
st instantaneous.
You have been lucky so far, don't push your luck any further.
The very LEAST you should have done is make the extension out of 1/8" 413
0 chromoly!!
However, it is my opinion you wings are NOT set correctly, and this require
d an "odd"
hor. stab. setting is the result.
You need to set your wings correctly, to within a gnat's ass of perfect,
THEN reset the
hor. stab. to recommended position.
I did a lot of research recently regarding setting up the wings the MkIII
(both Classic and Xtra)
With my nose redesign on my MkIII I knew this would adversely affect the pr
esent position of
my current and older incidence setting. I would highly recommend you do yo
ur own research
to resolve your situation.
And, for God's sake, don't fly that sucker until you get it right!! (and
get those aluminum straps
off!!
Mike Welch
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Message 17
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Mike,
Can you post the wing incidence angles you got from Brian ? According to the
numbers I have, my wings are dead on at + 3 degrees, and the boom is also right
on. I am supposed to have the Xtra numbers, but it wont hurt to confirm them.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172208#172208
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: fuel system plumbing, aux tank |
John,
If I turn on the Pump before the Mains are empty, they will overfill and the excess
goes out the vent tube on the bottom on the plane. Other than wasting fuel
at almost 4 bucks a gallon, no harm is done. If I forget the valve, the
fuel simply wont be drawn by the pump. Not quite as easy as the single large
tank in your plane, but for 150 bucks and minimal work, it is a very good solution
for those that would like more fuel for a stock MK III setup.
Kolbs new tank is the best answer, I put my tank in before that was available.
I will leave my tank in even when I get the new 18 gallon tank, as that will
give me 24 gallons if I ever need it.
The noise proofing I did in my plane is quite effective, and the pump is right
behind me. I can hear it in flight, and it gets louder if its left and it stops
drawing fuel.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172214#172214
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: fuel system plumbing, aux tank |
Mike B.
How about posting photos of this 6 gallon tank arangement?
Mike Welch
PS I'm putting together the incidences I have, emailed in a bit.
Do Not Archive
> Subject: Kolb-List: Re: fuel system plumbing, aux tank> From: orcabonita@
hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 08:19:23 -0700> To: kolb-list@matronics
>> > John,> > If I turn on the Pump before the Mains are empty, they will o
verfill and the excess goes out the vent tube on the bottom on the plane. O
ther than wasting fuel at almost 4 bucks a gallon, no harm is done. If I fo
rget the valve, the fuel simply wont be drawn by the pump. Not quite as eas
y as the single large tank in your plane, but for 150 bucks and minimal wor
k, it is a very good solution for those that would like more fuel for a sto
ck MK III setup. > > Kolbs new tank is the best answer, I put my tank in be
fore that was available. I will leave my tank in even when I get the new 18
gallon tank, as that will give me 24 gallons if I ever need it.> > The noi
se proofing I did in my plane is quite effective, and the pump is right beh
ind me. I can hear it in flight, and it gets louder if its left and it stop
s drawing fuel.> > Mike> > --------> "NO FEAR" - If you have no f
ear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!> > Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewt
=============> > >
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Message 20
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Mike W:
I think you will find as you get some time in Kolbs, which is a pusher,
the problem with nose down pitch is the high thrust line coupled with
the pusher configuration. The more power applied to that high "lever",
the more nose up pitch trim the aircraft will require to take pressure
off the stick.
My mkIII with no power flies level with no pitch trim. As soon as the
power starts coming up, the nose will want to go down and nose up pitch
will be required to take pressure off the stick.
Now......add a passenger in the other seat and it takes a great deal
more nose up pitch trim to take pressure off the stick.
Wing incidence doesn't affect pitch trim, as far as I know.
Kolbs are different animals than many other aircraft. Takes a little
time and a lot of flying to get to know them well. I am still learning.
Learned something new the other day with the new X.
john h - Snow coming down and 38F.
mkIII
Labhart Field, KY
Classic. I am under the impression Mike B's wings are too high,
pitching down the fuselage wedge, and requiring a significant deviation
of the hor. stab.'s angle from normal.
Mike Welch
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| Subject: | Re: Horizontal stabilizer mounting |
Mike W:
Maybe you need to do some more research.
I'm willing to bet the wing incidence is set correctly on Mike B's X.
Bryan Melborne built his airplane.
BTW: I fly with factory wing incidence, but have dropped the leading
edge of my horizontal stabilizer. Been flying this way since day one,
with some experimentation up and down, until I found the "sweet spot".
Once I found that, no further experimentation needed.
john h
mkIII
Labhart Field, KY
You need to set your wings correctly, to within a gnat's ass of
perfect, THEN reset the
hor. stab. to recommended position.
I did a lot of research recently regarding setting up the wings the
MkIII (both Classic and Xtra)
With my nose redesign on my MkIII I knew this would adversely affect
the present position of
my current and older incidence setting. I would highly recommend you
do your own research
to resolve your situation.
Mike Welch
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| Subject: | Re: Horizontal stabilizer mounting |
Mike,
Thanks for your concern and warning, but those are thicker and stronger than they
look in the picture. The extensions are not straps, are 3/8 inch thick aluminum
blocks and made out of 6061-T6 aluminum. They are are much stronger than
the tab that sticks out of the horizontal stab and attaches to them ( Which
is loaded a bending force ). If one of the aluminum blocks broke, the one remaining
would not only hold, it would still be stronger than the small 4130 tab
that comes out of the horizontal stab.
I considered using the same 1/8 inch 4130 steel that the original tabs are made
out of, but the aluminum is corrosion proof,and at 3/8 inch thick is much stiffer
and stronger.
4130 ChomMoly Tensile Strength = 90,000 PSI
6061-T6 Aluminum Tensile Strength = 45,000 PSI
Considering that the aluminum block is 3 times as thick as the 4130 steel they
are attached to, I calculate it at 50 % stronger. Overkill, but I like strong
:)
I do thank you for the warning though, I would rather have to recalculate and rethink
a structural component than have something break on me on the very slim
chance that I made a mistake [Wink]
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172237#172237
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: fuel system plumbing, aux tank |
If I forget the valve, the fuel simply wont be drawn by the pump.
>
> Mike
Mike:
Looks like Murphy is sitting right by your fuel pump switch and fuel valve.
If you forget to turn it on before you run dry on the main tanks, it might
get suddenly quiet.
I initially had a Ken Brock 9 gal seat tank in my FS. Used the 5 gal
original tank as an aux. Normal procedure was fly 2.0 hrs off the clock and
turn on the drain valve. On two seperate occassions I forgot to turn on the
valve at 2.0 hrs. First one put me on the ground between Perry and Live
Oak, FL. Second one was low level over cultivated fields on the south side
of Lake Okeechobie, FL. I lucked out and got a hand restart before I hit
the ground, which would have torn up my airplane in those conditions.
john h
mkIII
Labhart Field, KY
Message 24
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John H.
I am aware of the nose down tendency of the raised rear engine mount. Al
though my experience with
this tendency is very faded. It has been a few years since I was training
to fly a Quicksilver MXII, w/582.
But, is this "nose down" force real significant? I just can't recall, my
self.
What I was getting at was my conversation with Brain, where he stated tha
t when TNK was doing the
initial flight testing of the Xtra, they evidently hadn't remounted the lea
ding edge position of the h.stab. &
main wings, yet. It appears as thought the wedge design was "plowing" int
o the air, creating a tremendous
nose down force (with the hor. stab. and the main wings not relocated yet f
rom the higher Classic position.)
One thing I am NOT is an authority on much. You want to know about concr
ete and building, I'm your man!!!
But, when it comes to building and flying Kolbs, I'm a novice at best. Pre
tty much all of the performance,
characteristics, tendencies, etc. of a Kolb is/will be new to me. One thin
g I have is an open mind, to listen
to the advice of others, especially those that do know what the hell they'r
e talking about.
Something still seems to be a little off regarding Mike B's plane. 85 mp
h top speed, with the 912S, strikes me
he has something out of whack. Wing settings, prop pitch, something.
These are all the bugs I want ironed out of my plane prior to the first f
light!!! I assume nothing!!
Mike Welch
do not archive
From: travis@tnkolbaircraft.comTo: kolb-list@matronics.comSubject: Re: Kolb
-List: Re: MKIII XDate: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 11:48:29 -0400
Mike W:
I think you will find as you get some time in Kolbs, which is a pusher, the
problem with nose down pitch is the high thrust line coupled with the push
er configuration. The more power applied to that high "lever", the more no
se up pitch trim the aircraft will require to take pressure off the stick.
My mkIII with no power flies level with no pitch trim. As soon as the powe
r starts coming up, the nose will want to go down and nose up pitch will be
required to take pressure off the stick.
Now......add a passenger in the other seat and it takes a great deal more n
ose up pitch trim to take pressure off the stick.
Wing incidence doesn't affect pitch trim, as far as I know.
Kolbs are different animals than many other aircraft. Takes a little time
and a lot of flying to get to know them well. I am still learning. Learne
d something new the other day with the new X.
john h - Snow coming down and 38F.
mkIII
Labhart Field, KY
Classic. I am under the impression Mike B's wings are too high, pitching
down the fuselage wedge, and requiring a significant deviation of the hor.
stab.'s angle from normal. Mike Welch
_________________________________________________________________
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Message 25
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| Subject: | wing and hor stab incidences |
Mike B & others,
These are the measurements, in degrees, of the planes I have been given.
These readings are predicated on setting your main wings to 9 degrees, fir
st!! By setting the main wings to 9 degrees, your landing gear has nothing
to do with any further measurements.
For anyone else that wants to check and verify these figures, feel free t
o chime in. But, remember, prop up your wings to 9 degrees, or all these f
igures are useless. You have to have a basic reference point to begin, I j
ust happened to choose 9 degrees......
In analyzing these figures, be be honest, what these SHOULD be applied to
is a drawing!!! I see where Brian's angle under the fuselage is off by a
huge margin. Why? He likely took a reading from a different location, tha
n the others.
Mike Welch
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Message 26
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I'm in Clinton. Gonna keep my US at Goodspeed starting in a week or two,
as soon as I get the aux fuel tank done... or until space opens up at Chester.
-Dana
At 10:25 AM 3/24/2008, william sullivan wrote:
>Dana- Where are you in Ct.?
>
>do not archive
> Bill Sullivan
> FS/KXP
> Windsor Locks, Ct.
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Possum,
Are you going to mention what aircraft those tips are on ; )
Fly Safe,
Wade
--------
Fly Safe! Wade
Nashville Tn.
FS 2
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172253#172253
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| Subject: | Re: Fly-in at Homer's |
At 09:37 AM 3/24/2008, Travis Brown (Kolb Aircraft) wrote:
>Dana: Doesn't pay to assume anything around here.
>
>You may camp at Homer's. Several of us flying up from the South and West
>will be camping there.
Cool, that makes things easier. I thought I remembered from last year
(never got the plane ready in time) that nobody was camping there. I'll be
driving down in the morning from my NY cabin but the long return trip in
the evening after a long day outdoors and flying is always a
drag. Fortunately with the US there's plenty of room to sack out below the
tail boom when the plane's in the trailer.
-Dana
do not archive
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Mike
I had a conversation with Barnaby Wilifan at Oshkosh the year New Kolb
introduced the MKIIIX (Barnaby did the design for the Xtra). He
indicated that he wanted Kolb to raise the nose a bit because he felt it
was flying a bit nose low creating more drag than he wanted to see. I
don't know if Kolb reduced the angle of attack of the wing but a few
other things would need to be changed like longer gear legs and
reposition the horizontal stabilizer. Not sure if it is related but when
you buy the longer gear legs for the Xtra the factory wants you to lower
the angle of attack on the wing.
Most 80 HP Rotax MKIIICs and my VW powered MKIIIC cruise at 75MPH. The
factory claims 10 MPH improvement with the Xtra so 85MPH seems about
right. I know when I have flown cross country with the 100HP MKIIIC guys
they are always giving me a rough time about how slow my plane is. I
think a 100 HP MKIIIC cruises about 80.
Again worth what you paid for it
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIC
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Welch
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 12:13 PM
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: MKIII X
John H.
I am aware of the nose down tendency of the raised rear engine
mount. Although my experience with
this tendency is very faded. It has been a few years since I was
training to fly a Quicksilver MXII, w/582.
But, is this "nose down" force real significant? I just can't
recall, myself.
What I was getting at was my conversation with Brain, where he
stated that when TNK was doing the
initial flight testing of the Xtra, they evidently hadn't remounted
the leading edge position of the h.stab. &
main wings, yet. It appears as thought the wedge design was
"plowing" into the air, creating a tremendous
nose down force (with the hor. stab. and the main wings not relocated
yet from the higher Classic position.)
One thing I am NOT is an authority on much. You want to know about
concrete and building, I'm your man!!!
But, when it comes to building and flying Kolbs, I'm a novice at best.
Pretty much all of the performance,
characteristics, tendencies, etc. of a Kolb is/will be new to me. One
thing I have is an open mind, to listen
to the advice of others, especially those that do know what the hell
they're talking about.
Something still seems to be a little off regarding Mike B's plane.
85 mph top speed, with the 912S, strikes me
he has something out of whack. Wing settings, prop pitch, something.
These are all the bugs I want ironed out of my plane prior to the
first flight!!! I assume nothing!!
Mike Welch
do not archive
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: travis@tnkolbaircraft.com
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: MKIII X
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 11:48:29 -0400
Mike W:
I think you will find as you get some time in Kolbs, which is a
pusher, the problem with nose down pitch is the high thrust line coupled
with the pusher configuration. The more power applied to that high
"lever", the more nose up pitch trim the aircraft will require to take
pressure off the stick.
My mkIII with no power flies level with no pitch trim. As soon as
the power starts coming up, the nose will want to go down and nose up
pitch will be required to take pressure off the stick.
Now......add a passenger in the other seat and it takes a great deal
more nose up pitch trim to take pressure off the stick.
Wing incidence doesn't affect pitch trim, as far as I know.
Kolbs are different animals than many other aircraft. Takes a
little time and a lot of flying to get to know them well. I am still
learning. Learned something new the other day with the new X.
john h - Snow coming down and 38F.
mkIII
Labhart Field, KY
Classic. I am under the impression Mike B's wings are too high,
pitching down the fuselage wedge, and requiring a significant deviation
of the hor. stab.'s angle from normal.
Mike Welch
get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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I fell in love with those new wings and droop tips ever since I saw
>that MK III Xtra at Sun and Fun last year.>>
That is an Xtra?. With a nosewheel? Huh?
Pat
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mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co wrote:
>
> Something still seems to be a little off regarding Mike B's plane. 85 mph
top speed, with the 912S, strikes me
> he has something out of whack. Wing settings, prop pitch, something.
>
> Mike Welch
>
>
Mike,
I did not mean to imply that my top speed was 85 MPH, I was trying to say that
to go that fast, it took a lot of throttle, much more than I like to run at cruise
which is about half.
I have never gone as fast as the plane would go in level flight, I always back
off the throttle when it gets in the 80's... I have just never wanted to go
any faster in my Kolb. I did see 90 once by accident, on a steep approach, looking
back for the 172 that was behind me on final :) When I looked foward,
speed had crept up to 90 MPH [Shocked]
Given what John H reported in his first post, I may have my prop pitched to much.
I am climbing out at 5200 RPM, I set it based on what he was reporting for
his MK III Classic. I might get better performance setting the pitch to climb
out at 5400 - 5500 RPM as John has set for the MK III Xtra he is testing now.
Mike Bigelow
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172262#172262
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Rick N.,
Those are the specific issues I was referring to, namely the nose down te
ndency of the Xtra wedge.
Yes, ALL the wings and stabilizers setting are different on the Xtra, compa
red to a Classic due to this
newer design.
Additionally, if one goes to the newer steel gear legs, which are taller,
this also requires a
change in wing position...which requires a stab. reposition.
John H. says that Mike B's plane was built by Bryan Melbourne. Although
I don't know much about this
gentleman, from what I understand he is one of the leading Kolb authorities
. In other words, he knows
what the heck he's doing. Then why the radical remount of the leading edge
of the hor. stab.???
Is it possible, just possible, his wings are mounted in the lower, alumin
um gear leg position?
A quick answer to this question is: Mike B, at what location is your win
g tabs drilled and mounted?
I was told by Brian that IF you have the steel legs, the tab is drilled at
the TOP, on the wing root tab.
Have you checked??
BTW, when Mike B. stated his plane had a serious "nose down" tendency, I
understood him to say he
meant during cruise, not just when adding power, the usual action of a high
mounted rear engine. I
could be wrong, but that is what I thought he was getting at.
Mike Welch
From: NeilsenRM@comcast.netTo: kolb-list@matronics.comSubject: Re: Kolb-Lis
t: Re: MKIII XDate: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 13:16:02 -0400
Mike
I had a conversation with Barnaby Wilifan at Oshkosh the year New Kolb intr
oduced the MKIIIX (Barnaby did the design for the Xtra). He indicated that
he wanted Kolb to raise the nose a bit because he felt it was flying a bit
nose low creating more drag than he wanted to see. I don't know if Kolb red
uced the angle of attack of the wing but a few other things would need to b
e changed like longer gear legs and reposition the horizontal stabilizer. N
ot sure if it is related but when you buy the longer gear legs for the Xtra
the factory wants you to lower the angle of attack on the wing.
Most 80 HP Rotax MKIIICs and my VW powered MKIIIC cruise at 75MPH. The fact
ory claims 10 MPH improvement with the Xtra so 85MPH seems about right. I k
now when I have flown cross country with the 100HP MKIIIC guys they are alw
ays giving me a rough time about how slow my plane is. I think a 100 HP MKI
IIC cruises about 80.
Again worth what you paid for it
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIC
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Welch
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 12:13 PM
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: MKIII X
John H. I am aware of the nose down tendency of the raised rear engine mo
unt. Although my experience with this tendency is very faded. It has been
a few years since I was training to fly a Quicksilver MXII, w/582. But,
is this "nose down" force real significant? I just can't recall, myself.
What I was getting at was my conversation with Brain, where he stated that
when TNK was doing the initial flight testing of the Xtra, they evidently
hadn't remounted the leading edge position of the h.stab. &main wings, yet.
It appears as thought the wedge design was "plowing" into the air, creat
ing a tremendous nose down force (with the hor. stab. and the main wings no
t relocated yet from the higher Classic position.) One thing I am NOT is
an authority on much. You want to know about concrete and building, I'm yo
ur man!!!But, when it comes to building and flying Kolbs, I'm a novice at b
est. Pretty much all of the performance, characteristics, tendencies, etc.
of a Kolb is/will be new to me. One thing I have is an open mind, to list
en to the advice of others, especially those that do know what the hell the
y're talking about. Something still seems to be a little off regarding Mi
ke B's plane. 85 mph top speed, with the 912S, strikes me he has something
out of whack. Wing settings, prop pitch, something. These are all the
bugs I want ironed out of my plane prior to the first flight!!! I assume
nothing!! Mike Welch do not archive
From: travis@tnkolbaircraft.comTo: kolb-list@matronics.comSubject: Re: Kolb
-List: Re: MKIII XDate: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 11:48:29 -0400
Mike W:
I think you will find as you get some time in Kolbs, which is a pusher, the
problem with nose down pitch is the high thrust line coupled with the push
er configuration. The more power applied to that high "lever", the more no
se up pitch trim the aircraft will require to take pressure off the stick.
My mkIII with no power flies level with no pitch trim. As soon as the powe
r starts coming up, the nose will want to go down and nose up pitch will be
required to take pressure off the stick.
Now......add a passenger in the other seat and it takes a great deal more n
ose up pitch trim to take pressure off the stick.
Wing incidence doesn't affect pitch trim, as far as I know.
Kolbs are different animals than many other aircraft. Takes a little time
and a lot of flying to get to know them well. I am still learning. Learne
d something new the other day with the new X.
john h - Snow coming down and 38F.
mkIII
Labhart Field, KY
Classic. I am under the impression Mike B's wings are too high, pitching
down the fuselage wedge, and requiring a significant deviation of the hor.
stab.'s angle from normal. Mike Welch
get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Test your Star IQ Play now!
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?Kolb-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
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Message 33
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Mike B.
Oh. Okay.
I thought you meant full-out throttle was 85. Ok.
But, I'm still a little curious about the non-OEM suggested hor. stab. mo
unting
position, though.
Another question I have is: If you DID go 90 mph in your plane, does you
're windshield
flex down? Seems like a lot of down force. I was just wondering.
Mike W
> Subject: Kolb-List: Re: MKIII X> From: orcabonita@hotmail.com> Date: Mon,
24 Mar 2008 10:27:47 -0700> To: kolb-list@matronics.com> > --> Kolb-List m
essage posted by: "JetPilot" <orcabonita@hotmail.com>> > > mdnanwelch7(at)h
otmail.co wrote:> > > > Something still seems to be a little off regarding
Mike B's plane.=EF=BD 85 mph top speed, with the 912S, strikes me > > he
has something out of whack. Wing settings, prop pitch, something.=EF=BD
> > > > Mike Welch> > > > > > > Mike,> > I did not mean to imply that my t
op speed was 85 MPH, I was trying to say that to go that fast, it took a lo
t of throttle, much more than I like to run at cruise which is about half.>
> I have never gone as fast as the plane would go in level flight, I alway
s back off the throttle when it gets in the 80's... I have just never wante
d to go any faster in my Kolb. I did see 90 once by accident, on a steep ap
proach, looking back for the 172 that was behind me on final :) When I look
ed foward, speed had crept up to 90 MPH [Shocked] > > Given what John H rep
orted in his first post, I may have my prop pitched to much. I am climbing
out at 5200 RPM, I set it based on what he was reporting for his MK III Cla
ssic. I might get better performance setting the pitch to climb out at 5400
- 5500 RPM as John has set for the MK III Xtra he is testing now.> > Mike
Bigelow> > --------> "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not
go as fast as you could have !!!> > Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S> > > > > Read t
his topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172
=======> > >
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Rick N:
I know of four, no five MKIII's that cruise 85 mph at 5,000 with 80 and
100 hp engines.
My MKIII was initially powered with a 65 hp Rotax, then an 80 and now a
100. Cruise was 80 mph, 85 mph, and 88 mph at normal cruise rpm which
was 5,800 for the two stroke and 5,000 for the 912's.
Take care,
john h
mkIII
Labhart Field, KY - Getting ready to get some more time in the X. Sun
has broken through and the wind has died down a bit.
know when I have flown cross country with the 100HP MKIIIC guys they
are always giving me a rough time about how slow my plane is. I think a
100 HP MKIIIC cruises about 80.
Rick Neilsen
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: wing and hor stab incidences |
Now if we could get the cruise & stall speed for each airplane @ a
particular RPM that would give everyone else something better to choose from
wouldn't it?
Ellery in Maine
do not archive
In a message dated 3/24/2008 11:35:41 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
mdnanwelch7@hotmail.com writes:
Mike B & others,
These are the measurements, in degrees, of the planes I have been given.
These readings are predicated on setting your main wings to 9 degrees, first!!
By setting the main wings to 9 degrees, your landing gear has nothing to do
with any further measurements.
For anyone else that wants to check and verify these figures, feel free to
chime in. But, remember, prop up your wings to 9 degrees, or all these
figures are useless. You have to have a basic reference point to begin, I just
happened to choose 9 degrees......
In analyzing these figures, be be honest, what these SHOULD be applied to is
a drawing!!! I see where Brian's angle under the fuselage is off by a huge
margin. Why? He likely took a reading from a different location, than the
others.
Mike Welch
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Message 36
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Mike W:
I am a Kolb man. No experience in any other ULs and very little in a
152, just enough to get a private ticket after I retired from the Army.
Unlike the Kolb, the MX engine is mounted inverted beneath the wing.
The thrust line is below the wing, not well above the wing like our
Kolbs. I am sure there is a big difference in handling and flight
characteristics, opposite thrust lines.
Every Kolb I have flown has had to be tuned up and tweaked to get it to
fly like the builder/flyer wants it to. I don't know of anyone with the
capability of most of us, working in basements, garages, and living
rooms, could build something as sophisticated at an airplane and get it
to fly 100% right out of the box.
If you can iron out all the bugs before the first flight, you are a
better man than me. ;-)
Most Kolbs hit an invisible wall, after which no amount of power is
going to make enough difference to make them into a Glasair. I have
accepted my mkIII is an 85 mph airplane. Have been able to cover great
distances with it and still get back home. If I had been flying all
those hours and miles with a 300 mph airplane, there are times I would
have been bored in it the same as I get, at times, in my mkIII flying
over long, boring, uncomfortable wind condition places. However, when
the terrain and the flying get exciting again, I rarely thing of how
fast I am flying across the ground.
Take care,
john h
mkIII
Labhart Field, KY
I am aware of the nose down tendency of the raised rear engine
mount. Although my experience with
this tendency is very faded. It has been a few years since I was
training to fly a Quicksilver MXII, w/582.
Something still seems to be a little off regarding Mike B's plane.
85 mph top speed, with the 912S, strikes me
he has something out of whack. Wing settings, prop pitch, something.
These are all the bugs I want ironed out of my plane prior to the
first flight!!! I assume nothing!!
Mike Welch
Message 37
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At 12:55 PM 3/24/2008, you wrote:
>
>Possum,
> Are you going to mention what aircraft those tips are on ; )
>
> Fly Safe,
> Wade
They're on mine - not to mention some others around the farm.
You didn't want me to mention that did you?
Now what is all this talk about "Seafoam" and how does
that stuff work??
Do not archive
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| Subject: | Re: Firestar Project |
Hi Bill,
I would just install a filler "down pipe" that limits you to ~5 gals and forget
about replacing the tank, if it is still in decent condition.
As long as you can not modify that fill limiter easily while fueling then it should
be perfectly legal for part 103.
Since you have your weight made your in good shape.
I'm the guy with the 15 Gal fiberglass behind seat tank in my UltraStar, and will
be doing likewise with a filler "down Pipe" limiter this week to comply with
part 103.
Your project sounds very interesting....I'm sure the excitement level is mounting.
A good long strip with open fields all around is probably in order for your first
test hops.
Especially since your not sure about the Angle of Incidence and are entering experimental
territory.
I would also suggest you get another Kolber to take a good look over your aircraft
in detail to make sure everything "looks right".
Looking forward to hearing about your progress.
--------
Ray
Kolb UltraStar (Cuyuna UL-202)
Moni MotorGlider
Schreder HP-11 Glider
Riverside County, CA
Do Not Archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172297#172297
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----- Original Message -----
From: "possums" <possums@bellsouth.net>
Now what is all this talk about "Seafoam" and how does
that stuff work??
-------------- break-break----------
....running low on Seafoam here.... local distributor assassinated...
can hold out only a few more days... send help....airdrop S.F. if
possible...
drop coordinates will follow...
must sign off... Rotax gestapo closing in...
desperate beauford
ff- 076
Brandon Fl
do not archive...
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| Subject: | Re: Ultrastar questions |
Hi Dana,
Do you have a complete list of UltraStar concerns/bookmarks available?
I'd sure be interested to see what else you found.
I will note those and check them out.
The diagonal bracing is a couple tubes that attach to the leading edge at one end
and are attached to the Main tube spare at the other forming a triangle between
the main spar tube, a rib and the diagonal brace.
They prevent the leading edge from moving towards the tip or root directions from
vibration, uneven skin covering tension spanwise, flight loads and rough ground
handling.
Your sleeve connecting the two leading edges might help that some if clamped tight.
--------
Ray
Kolb UltraStar (Cuyuna UL-202)
Moni MotorGlider
Schreder HP-11 Glider
Riverside County, CA
Do Not Archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172301#172301
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John H.
A minor point of clarification....the MXII I was training in was a top mount
582. You are correct, in that most Quicks were inverted, but I wasn't clear
to mention I meant a "top mounted" version. (see photo) And my experience level
is was/still is beginner to novice. I think I had about 12-15 hours, total,
prior to deciding to get my regular private pilot license.
I know the top mounted style aircraft exerts a downward push on the nose, I
just don't recall how much. (I flew the Quicks as a trainee back in 1993-1994,
and never soloed)
I doubt very seriously if I get my MkIII correct, right out of the box(es).
I most certainly want to al least get it close. I made a terrible assumption,
once before, about flying ultralights. Very bad results. I'd like to think
I no longer assume anything. Verification and assurance of facts, IMO, is a
good route.
My flying experience is also quite limited. Trained in a C-150, got about
15 hours of
misc. training in the MXII's, bought my first C-172, sold it to build this MkIII,
bought my present C-172, and it's for sale (Trade a Plane). Maybe a total
of about 600 hours. I have enough experience to know I need to be instucted
in a Kolb prior to flying one!!
The reason for the sale of my Cessna is that I believe my finished MkIII will
be all the airplane I will need. My intention isn't to really make it "scream
along", just fly within it's
expected, and properly tuned parameters.
BFN, Mike W
"Travis Brown (Kolb Aircraft)" <travis@tnkolbaircraft.com> wrote:
.hmmessage P { PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px;
MARGIN: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px } BODY.hmmessage { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:
Tahoma } Mike W:
I am a Kolb man. No experience in any other ULs and very little in a 152, just
enough to get a private ticket after I retired from the Army.
Unlike the Kolb, the MX engine is mounted inverted beneath the wing. The thrust
line is below the wing, not well above the wing like our Kolbs. I am sure
there is a big difference in handling and flight characteristics, opposite thrust
lines.
Every Kolb I have flown has had to be tuned up and tweaked to get it to fly like
the builder/flyer wants it to. I don't know of anyone with the capability
of most of us, working in basements, garages, and living rooms, could build something
as sophisticated at an airplane and get it to fly 100% right out of the
box.
If you can iron out all the bugs before the first flight, you are a better man
than me. ;-)
Most Kolbs hit an invisible wall, after which no amount of power is going to
make enough difference to make them into a Glasair. I have accepted my mkIII
is an 85 mph airplane. Have been able to cover great distances with it and still
get back home. If I had been flying all those hours and miles with a 300
mph airplane, there are times I would have been bored in it the same as I get,
at times, in my mkIII flying over long, boring, uncomfortable wind condition
places. However, when the terrain and the flying get exciting again, I rarely
thing of how fast I am flying across the ground.
Take care,
john h
mkIII
Labhart Field, KY
I am aware of the nose down tendency of the raised rear engine mount. Although
my experience with
this tendency is very faded. It has been a few years since I was training to fly
a Quicksilver MXII, w/582.
Something still seems to be a little off regarding Mike B's plane. 85 mph top
speed, with the 912S, strikes me
he has something out of whack. Wing settings, prop pitch, something.
These are all the bugs I want ironed out of my plane prior to the first flight!!!
I assume nothing!!
Mike Welch
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
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| Subject: | Re: Fly-in at Homer's |
Dana Hague wrote:
> At 09:37 AM 3/24/2008, Travis Brown (Kolb Aircraft) wrote:
>> Dana: Doesn't pay to assume anything around here.
>>
>> You may camp at Homer's. Several of us flying up from the South and
>> West will be camping there.
>
> Cool, that makes things easier. I thought I remembered from last year
> (never got the plane ready in time) that nobody was camping there.
> I'll be driving down in the morning from my NY cabin but the long
> return trip in the evening after a long day outdoors and flying is
> always a drag. Fortunately with the US there's plenty of room to sack
> out below the tail boom when the plane's in the trailer.
>
> -Dana
Dana,
Hold your horses!! John was speaking off the cuff. Neither he nor I
have talked to Homer about a group camping there. When we set this up
it was to be as least intrusive as possible. They already go out of
their way hosting this and providing us with a picnic lunch. Please
wait until either John or I have a chance to approach Homer with this idea.
That is why last year I didn't promote the idea and provided
alternatives for camping. John has a lot of history with Homer and his
relationship goes way back and I'm sure he is welcome there any time. I
don't think it is proper for the rest of us to presume! I will keep the
list informed.
Terry - FireFly #95
Message 43
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| Subject: | Re: wing and hor stab incidences |
On Mar 24, 2008, at 2:08 PM, ElleryWeld@aol.com wrote:
> Now if we could get the cruise & stall speed for each airplane @ a
> particular RPM that would give everyone else something better to
> choose from wouldn't it?
If I tell you my Firestar's top speed straight and level is 100mph and
stalls at 18mph with VGs would you be impressed?
What if I posted actual pictures of my air-speed indicator reading
those figures?
I believe it prudent to view all posted air speeds with a healthy
degree of skepticism because of the significant variations in air-
speed indicators from one plane to another.
For me it is merely interesting information with little real value.
My personal opinion,,,,,,,, proud as I am of my numbers. ;-)
Gene
Message 44
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I am looking for a set of 6 inch Azuzalite wheels.They don't have to have
brakes,5/8 I.D. bearings. Anyone upgrade lately and have some sitting
around? Thanks,Mark....mshimei@bellsouth.net
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| Subject: | Re: Ultrastar questions |
On Mar 24, 2008, at 3:49 PM, jb92563 wrote:
> Your sleeve connecting the two leading edges might help that some if
> clamped tight.
On the other hand, if you ever develop even a slight bit of play in
your wing attach points you will
put "extreme stress" on those critical little diagonal braces inside
your wing.
Are you sure that is what you really want to do?
Message 46
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At 02:33 PM 3/24/2008, John Hauck wrote:
>Unlike the Kolb, the MX engine is mounted inverted beneath the wing. The
>thrust line is below the wing, not well above the wing like our Kolbs. I
>am sure there is a big difference in handling and flight characteristics,
>opposite thrust lines.
Every Quicksilver I've flown had the engine above the wing. Some have had
a bottom mounted engine, but in either case, the thrust line is very close
to the wing. Not as high as a Kolb (except, of course, an Ultrastar), but
a Quick is also kinda strung out vertically, so there's a lot of drag down
low. There is significant pitch trim change with power.
-Dana
--
Work is underway on drafting a new constitution for Iraq. Why don't we
send them ours? It worked for 200 years, and we don't use it any more.
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| Subject: | Re: Firestar project |
Yah, swimming does strange things to the wings...........thinks it's a
penguin, 'stead of a possum anymore. :-)
Lar. Do not Archive.
possums wrote:
>
> At 07:21 AM 3/24/2008, you wrote:
>> Possums- You said you have 8 rib wings. Are you counting the ends?
>
>
> Mine's all weirded out. Use to have a 5 rib Firestar, but all I got
> let of it is the old nose cone, some hardware and the stick.
>
> http://www.mindspring.com/~possums/
>
>
--
Larry Bourne
Santa Fe, NM
www.gogittum.com
www.gogittum.com/blog
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| Subject: | Re: Fly-in at Homer's |
At 03:57 PM 3/24/2008, TK wrote:
>Hold your horses!! John was speaking off the cuff. Neither he nor I have
>talked to Homer about a group camping there. When we set this up it was
>to be as least intrusive as possible...
OK, I will hold any plans... or rather, plan on returning home that night
unless I hear otherwise.
-Dana
--
Work is underway on drafting a new constitution for Iraq. Why don't we
send them ours? It worked for 200 years, and we don't use it any more.
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| Subject: | Re: Fly-in at Homer's |
At 03:57 PM 3/24/2008, TK wrote:
>Hold your horses!! John was speaking off the cuff. Neither he nor I have
>talked to Homer about a group camping there. When we set this up it was
>to be as least intrusive as possible...
OK, I will hold any plans... or rather, plan on returning home that night
unless I hear otherwise.
-Dana
--
Work is underway on drafting a new constitution for Iraq. Why don't we
send them ours? It worked for 200 years, and we don't use it any more.
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Been working non stop on a Firefly for Sun n Fun. After about 20 hrs work I
just finished the gap seal. Hopr to see everyone there.
Steve B
Firefly 007/Floats
do not archive
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| Subject: | Re: Ultrastar questions |
At 03:49 PM 3/24/2008, jb92563 wrote:
>Do you have a complete list of UltraStar concerns/bookmarks available?
>
>I'd sure be interested to see what else you found.
>
>I will note those and check them out.
Well, the messages I was referring to were the only ones I bookmarked
addressing specific concerns.
>The diagonal bracing is a couple tubes that attach to the leading edge at
>one end and are attached to the Main tube spare at the other forming a
>triangle between the main spar tube, a rib and the diagonal brace.
>
>They prevent the leading edge from moving towards the tip or root
>directions from vibration, uneven skin covering tension spanwise, flight
>loads and rough ground handling.
Yes, I understand that. I wasn't sure if that's what John was referring to
as "lateral bracing".
>Your sleeve connecting the two leading edges might help that some if
>clamped tight.
No, that provides no spanwise support. I imagine it was originally
installed to support the center gap seal, but it would also tend to prevent
relative vertical motion of the leading edges (i.e. wing twist).
-Dana
--
Work is underway on drafting a new constitution for Iraq. Why don't we
send them ours? It worked for 200 years, and we don't use it any more.
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Photo 2
____________________________________
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01) .
**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
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| Subject: | Re: Ultrastar questions |
At 05:16 PM 3/24/2008, Eugene Zimmerman wrote:
>On the other hand, if you ever develop even a slight bit of play in your
>wing attach points you will
>put "extreme stress" on those critical little diagonal braces inside your
>wing.
>
>Are you sure that is what you really want to do?
The sleeve isn't clamped tight; it's just a short piece of the next size
larger tubing slipped over the leading edge tubes. It stays on one side,
then when the wings are unfolded it slips to the center and spans across
both. There's no spanwise support other than friction, though I expect it
might help to prevent any relative vertical motion (wing twist).
Still, I have to think on this. There's always a "slight bit of play" in
any connection, and although I presume it was added to help support the
wing gap seal, I don't know that it's actually that important... and it IS
kind of a PITA to slip into place. OTOH, it WOULD add some additional
support in the event of a failure at some other point.
-Dana
--
Work is underway on drafting a new constitution for Iraq. Why don't we
send them ours? It worked for 200 years, and we don't use it any more.
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| Subject: | Re: wing and hor stab incidences |
Gene
No Im not interested in your firestar I had one and I know what it would
do, I am looking for info on the MK3Xtra and what the magic angles in the
rigging makes it fly along good and easy and keeping the rpm down for best fuel
consumption not the fastest speed or the slowest stall speed I could give
whats under a rats tail about the stall speed anyway
Ellery in Maine
do not archive
In a message dated 3/24/2008 4:06:45 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
ez@embarqmail.com writes:
On Mar 24, 2008, at 2:08 PM, _ElleryWeld@aol.com_ (mailto:ElleryWeld@aol.com)
wrote:
Now if we could get the cruise & stall speed for each airplane @ a
particular RPM that would give everyone else something better to choose from
wouldn't it?
If I tell you my Firestar's top speed straight and level is 100mph and
stalls at 18mph with VGs would you be impressed?
What if I posted actual pictures of my air-speed indicator reading those
figures?
I believe it prudent to view all posted air speeds with a healthy degree of
skepticism because of the significant variations in air-speed indicators from
one plane to another.
For me it is merely interesting information with little real value.
My personal opinion,,,,,,,, proud as I am of my numbers. ;-)
Gene
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
Home.
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Steve:
Looks like you have a very nice project going.
I used the same concept. The soft pack is not mounted (when the pic was shot)
but it fits under the lexan and exists out the hinged door (although I have not
tested it). The only thing I do not like is the the Velcro is tenacious in
its grip and hard to remove the seal. But I know it is not going to be flapping
in the wind.
Wish I could go to Sun & Fun .... :?
Fly safe,
Jim
--------
Jim O'Day
Fargo, ND
Firestar II
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172372#172372
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Steve:
Nice job on the gap seal. Looks like you have a nice project going too. I wish
I could go to Sun & Fun .... :(
Fly safe,
Jim
do not archive
--------
Jim O'Day
Fargo, ND
Firestar II
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172378#172378
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| Subject: | Firestar project |
Ray- For now, I am doing what you are- a filler down pipe. Easiest way until next
fall. The Palmer, Mass. field looks the best for being local and out of the
air traffic. While I need a brush-up on flying, the last air maps I read were
written on parchment using berries for ink. I am a little out of date. I could
bring it to a friend's farm and get some time in, but unless I get led around
I have an excellent chance of becoming an aluminum bug on the windshield of
a 757. I have to be patient- It's too cold at ground level, never mind up there
with no wood stove. Only a few more weeks...
do not archive
Bill Sullivan
FS/KXP
Windsor Locks, Ct.
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In a message dated 3/24/2008 8:10:03 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
jimoday@hotmail.com writes:
The only thing I do not like is the Velcro is tenacious in its grip and hard
to remove the seal.
Jim,
I do not use both halves of the Velcro. Only the soft side is used. the gap
seal is held front and back with fasteners.
Steve B
Firefly 007/Floats
do not archive
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Bill,
I have removed the fuel tank from my Original FireStar by first
disconnecting the vertical control rod that operates the ailerons. With that
out of the
way, the tank can be maneuvered, with a little finagling, through that
triangular space, into the cockpit area.
Bill Varnes
Original Kolb FireStar
Audubon NJ
Do Not Archive
In a message dated 3/24/2008 10:24:07 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
williamtsullivan@att.net writes:
Dana- I think I will get the tank before I decide what to do. the 10 gallon
tank is mounted high, over the BRS. The BRS is fully enclosed, and fires out
the side through the fabric. maybe I can access through the seat back, but I
think there is a strut in the way.
Bill
FS/KXP
Windsor Locks, Ct.
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
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| Subject: | Firestar Project-AOI |
Ray- I forgot. The reason I questioned the angle of incidence was that the KXP
wings had 3 holes on the forward mount. The center one worked out for the correct
angle. I was wondering if anyone had had occassion to experiment- looks
like others are discussing this now, and I'm learning. I am not going to try anything
funny at this point. Once I know the habits of this thing I may pull the
adapter channels off and drill two more holes in each.
Bill Sullivan
FS/KXP
Windsor Locks, Ct.
Message 61
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Steve:
I see how you did that now. Much better than mine!
I think I may have another project to add to my to-do list. Mine is similar to
yours but .... not as nicely done.
Thanks for pointing that detail out. I can add some more fasteners to mine, I
used fasteners around my engine. The Velcro is a b%#@ to separate and I need
to slide in a strip of plastic to get the darn thing on/off.
Thanks,
Jim
--------
Jim O'Day
Fargo, ND
Firestar II
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172393#172393
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Bill Sullivan,
Ooops! I forgot that you have a 10 gallon tank. That might not fit through
the space I talked about below.
BV
In a message dated 3/24/2008 8:38:23 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com writes:
Bill,
I have removed the fuel tank from my Original FireStar by first
disconnecting the vertical control rod that operates the ailerons. With that
out of the
way, the tank can be maneuvered, with a little finagling, through that
triangular space, into the cockpit area.
Bill Varnes
Original Kolb FireStar
Audubon NJ
Do Not Archive
In a message dated 3/24/2008 10:24:07 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
williamtsullivan@att.net writes:
Dana- I think I will get the tank before I decide what to do. the 10 gallon
tank is mounted high, over the BRS. The BRS is fully enclosed, and fires out
the side through the fabric. maybe I can access through the seat back, but I
think there is a strut in the way.
Bill
FS/KXP
Windsor Locks, Ct.
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| Subject: | The Numbers Don't Lie |
All this speculation on what and how the Xtra does or will perform made me go flying
today and get some numbers.
Pressure Altitude: 2500 feet, 52 degrees F.
5480 rpm: 90 kts
5000 rpm: 80 kts
4500 rpm: 70 kts
4000 rpm: 57 kts
The airplane is rigged to the factory specs.
do not archive
--------
John Williamson
Arlington, TX
Kolbra, 912ULS, 1580 hours
http://home.tx.rr.com/kolbrapilot
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172396#172396
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| Subject: | Mark III Landing gear wheel alignment |
The Wheels on my plane are not set right as of now they are set like this:
Left gear: toe out 2.5*
Right gear: toe in 5.5*
This gives my plane a left sideways track.
What is the easiest way to correct this? We were thinking to ream out the hole
in the (axle holder) the steel piece on the end of the landing gear leg so that
the axle holder can be rotated on the gear leg to the right position. Once
the right position is set the enlarged hole will be welded partially shut and
re drilled to round the hole in the correct position.
What are your thoughts on this?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172400#172400
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| Subject: | Re: The Numbers Don't Lie |
Thanks John W that is the kind of info I was looking for that will help me
make my mind up if I can get more from someone else to compare it with
some day it might warm up here so I can enjoy a day of flying my self
Ellery from Maine
do not archive
if you dont think America is falling apart take a drive across Maine it
will change your mind real quick ,The roads are terrible here
In a message dated 3/24/2008 8:11:35 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
kolbrapilot1@tx.rr.com writes:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Williamson" <kolbrapilot1@tx.rr.com>
All this speculation on what and how the Xtra does or will perform made me
go flying today and get some numbers.
Pressure Altitude: 2500 feet, 52 degrees F.
5480 rpm: 90 kts
5000 rpm: 80 kts
4500 rpm: 70 kts
4000 rpm: 57 kts
The airplane is rigged to the factory specs.
do not archive
--------
John Williamson
Arlington, TX
Kolbra, 912ULS, 1580 hours
http://home.tx.rr.com/kolbrapilot
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172396#172396
**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
Home.
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001)
Message 66
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| Subject: | Re: Mark III Landing gear wheel alignment |
without looking at your particular problem there are a couple ways to look
at it you could drill the holes out bigger on the 4130 axle piece that slips
over the aluminum gear leg install big enough washers ,align the gear and
weld the washers in place to hold it in place I would tack weld it make sure
the gear is where you want it then remove to finish welding it or You could
look at re drilling on the upper end of the gear leg to get your gear lined
up mabe slide the leg in or out a bit to give you a good solid hole placement
worth what you paid for it have fun
Ellery in Maine
do not archive
In a message dated 3/24/2008 8:31:48 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
grant_richardson25@yahoo.com writes:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "grantr" <grant_richardson25@yahoo.com>
The Wheels on my plane are not set right as of now they are set like this:
Left gear: toe out 2.5*
Right gear: toe in 5.5*
This gives my plane a left sideways track.
What is the easiest way to correct this? We were thinking to ream out the
hole in the (axle holder) the steel piece on the end of the landing gear leg
so that the axle holder can be rotated on the gear leg to the right position.
Once the right position is set the enlarged hole will be welded partially
shut and re drilled to round the hole in the correct position.
What are your thoughts on this?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172400#172400
**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
Home.
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001)
Message 67
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| Subject: | Re: Mark III Landing gear wheel alignment |
At 06:28 PM 3/24/08 -0700, you wrote:
>
>The Wheels on my plane are not set right as of now they are set like this:
>
> Left gear: toe out 2.5*
>
> Right gear: toe in 5.5*
>
>
>What are your thoughts on this?
>
Grant,
Do you have aluminum legs?
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
Message 68
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At 08:27 PM 3/24/2008, N27SB@aol.com wrote:
>
>
>In a message dated 3/24/2008 8:10:03 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>jimoday@hotmail.com writes:
>The only thing I do not like is the Velcro is tenacious in its grip and
>hard to remove the seal.
>
> Jim,
>I do not use both halves of the Velcro. Only the soft side is used. the
>gap seal is held front and back with fasteners.
What is the Velcro for, then?
My gap seal is held on with Velcro... but it's a soft (clear vinyl) seal so
it peels off relatively easy as I roll it up.
-Dana
--
In the 60's people took acid to make the world weird. Now the world is
weird, people take prozac to make it normal.
Message 69
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At 08:27 PM 3/24/2008, N27SB@aol.com wrote:
>
>
>In a message dated 3/24/2008 8:10:03 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>jimoday@hotmail.com writes:
>The only thing I do not like is the Velcro is tenacious in its grip and
>hard to remove the seal.
>
> Jim,
>I do not use both halves of the Velcro. Only the soft side is used. the
>gap seal is held front and back with fasteners.
What is the Velcro for, then?
My gap seal is held on with Velcro... but it's a soft (clear vinyl) seal so
it peels off relatively easy as I roll it up.
-Dana
--
In the 60's people took acid to make the world weird. Now the world is
weird, people take prozac to make it normal.
Message 70
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| Subject: | Re: Firestar Project |
Bill,
I pulled out my old Firestar plans and took a look. It looks like you have KX
wings. My plans have two wing versions, a five rib "KX only" and seven rib "KXP
only".
The plans show no difference at the rear drag strut fitting between models. I'm
not sure why the fitting was sticking out so far on your wing set. The plans
show the center of the trailing edge end of the hole in the drag strut fitting
as protruding 3/4" from the rib. This would put the end toward the leading
edge at just less than an inch.
I have attached a quick (not to scale) sketch of the area to clarify the above.
If you have trouble with the .pdf let me know and I can post it as a jpeg.
You are going to love your plane. Light Firestars are a delight to fly.
--------
Roger in Oregon
1992 KXP 503 - N1782C
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172434#172434
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/drag_strut_attach_sketch_703.pdf
Message 71
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| Subject: | Re: The Numbers Don't Lie |
Hey John W
Not everyone knows that you fly a 100HP Rotax powered Kolbra. I assume the
figures were in that bird. It would drive these guys crazy trying to match
those numbers in a Xtra.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIC
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Williamson" <kolbrapilot1@tx.rr.com>
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 9:08 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: The Numbers Don't Lie
> <kolbrapilot1@tx.rr.com>
>
> All this speculation on what and how the Xtra does or will perform made me
> go flying today and get some numbers.
>
> Pressure Altitude: 2500 feet, 52 degrees F.
> 5480 rpm: 90 kts
> 5000 rpm: 80 kts
> 4500 rpm: 70 kts
> 4000 rpm: 57 kts
>
> The airplane is rigged to the factory specs.
>
>
> do not archive
>
> --------
> John Williamson
> Arlington, TX
>
> Kolbra, 912ULS, 1580 hours
> http://home.tx.rr.com/kolbrapilot
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172396#172396
>
>
>
Message 72
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| Subject: | Re: The Numbers Don't Lie |
Hi Rick and All,
Of course those numbers are for my Kolbra!
I tell everyone what I fly in my signature block on every post.
do not archive [Laughing]
--------
John Williamson
Arlington, TX
Kolbra, 912ULS, 1580 hours
http://home.tx.rr.com/kolbrapilot
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172441#172441
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| Subject: | Re: Mark III Landing gear wheel alignment |
Grant,
I did my FS a couple months ago. Took the wheels off, axles out, used
a fiberglass rod or electric conduit through both axles to align. I pulled my
aluminum gear legs out a half inch and re drilled the top holes. I did lower
the axles to the ground and load the gear before drilling.
Fly Safe,
Wade
--------
Fly Safe! Wade
Nashville Tn.
FS 2
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172445#172445
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Roger- The drawing you posted looks exactly like the original wings on my plane.
The replacement wing set has a rear mount that was mounted 90 degrees off from
the drawing (the attaching bolt for the u-joint goes the other way from the
drawing.) The mount on the new wing set is a massive lug compared to the original
(pictured). Dimensions from front to rear were different by a couple of inches.
Maybe my plane is a Firestar/KX. What year are those plans?
Bill Sullivan
FS/KX
Windsor Locks, Ct.
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