---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 03/29/08: 22 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:08 AM - Re: Kolb Fly-In at Monument Valley (WillUribe@aol.com) 2. 04:12 AM - Lexan (william sullivan) 3. 05:33 AM - Re: Re: Prop clearence on Kolb Mark 111 extra (N27SB@aol.com) 4. 06:15 AM - Prop flex (Eugene Zimmerman) 5. 09:52 AM - Re: Lexan (Vic Peters) 6. 10:55 AM - Re: Prop clearence on Kolb Mark 111 extra (Frankd) 7. 11:04 AM - Please remove me from the the kolb list. (Rogerde5@aol.com) 8. 11:20 AM - Re: Kolb Fly-In at Monument Valley (boyd) 9. 11:20 AM - memories at Monument Valley (boyd) 10. 11:52 AM - Re: Please remove me from the the kolb list. (planecrazzzy) 11. 12:46 PM - Re: Re: Please remove me from the the kolb list. (Bob Noyer) 12. 12:57 PM - Plexus (william sullivan) 13. 02:13 PM - Test message to Matt Draille (Mike Welch) 14. 02:49 PM - Re: Test message to Matt Draille (Matt Dralle) 15. 04:55 PM - Two New Lists Added to the Matronics Lineup! (Matt Dralle) 16. 05:20 PM - Re: Re: Prop clearence on Kolb Mark 111 extra (ElleryWeld@aol.com) 17. 05:53 PM - Re: Re: Prop clearence on Kolb Mark 111 extra (Mike Welch) 18. 05:55 PM - Re: Re: Prop clearence on Kolb Mark 111 Xtra (Mike Welch) 19. 06:28 PM - Naked FireStar (WillUribe@aol.com) 20. 06:45 PM - Re: Kolb Fly-In at Monument Valley (WillUribe@aol.com) 21. 06:50 PM - Re: Naked FireStar (knowvne@aol.com) 22. 07:04 PM - Re: Prop clearence on Kolb Mark 111 extra (gary aman) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:08:31 AM PST US From: WillUribe@aol.com Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Kolb Fly-In at Monument Valley _Click here: The Matronics List Archive Web Search Engine_ (http://www.matronics.com/search/) Yes yes yes yes yes !!!!!!! We were the trail blazers on July 03, 2001 But don't take my word for it. Look it up in the list's archives. Select Archive Kolb Message Order Oldest First Search String Monument Valley Select Archive: Message Order: Newest First Oldest First Output Method*: 2 Frame, Index 3 Frame, Index All Msgs, No Index Search String: Regards, Will Uribe El Paso, TX FireStar II N4GU p.s. - in reference to Dave Rains' last post: He is correct in saying that our "Unorganized, Unofficial" Kolb Fly-In at Monument Valley was indeed originated by him and Will U. Thanks, guys! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No no no no no!!!!!!! We went over this a year or so ago,,,, in Sept,2002 Erich Weaver and myself, along with some others, started a trip through southern Ut. The trip was cut short when our path was blocked with thunderstorms. **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15&ncid=aolhom00030000000001) ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:12:14 AM PST US From: william sullivan Subject: Kolb-List: Lexan Mike- You mentioned using a plastic polish on Lexan. Is that the same stuff used to polish car headlight housings? Also, what is Plexus? Bill Sullivan FS/KX Windsor Locks, Ct. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:33:22 AM PST US From: N27SB@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Prop clearence on Kolb Mark 111 extra In a message dated 3/28/2008 10:51:25 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, orcabonita@hotmail.com writes: Prop tips in general should not flex much, the centrifugal force of rotation keeps most props straighter when running than when stopped. What kind of prop is that ??? Mike Mike, I am not sure where you got your info on prop flex. The tips of an Ivo Prop flex forward in excess of an inch. Other props flex less. On a Kolb with an upswept boom this tends to increase clearance, However, it can dramatically decrease clearance to the back of the wing. Steve B Firefly 007/Floats do not archive **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15&ncid=aolhom00030000000001) ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:15:55 AM PST US From: Eugene Zimmerman Subject: Kolb-List: Prop flex Here is a good in flight picture of my 72 inch IVO prop flex profile. On Mar 29, 2008, at 8:30 AM, N27SB@aol.com wrote: > > > In a message dated 3/28/2008 10:51:25 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, orcabonita@hotmail.com > writes: > > Prop tips in general should not flex much, the centrifugal force of > rotation keeps most props straighter when running than when > stopped. What kind of prop is that ??? > > Mike > Mike, I am not sure where you got your info on prop flex. The tips > of an Ivo Prop flex forward in excess of an inch. Other props flex > less. On a Kolb with an upswept boom this tends to increase > clearance, However, it can dramatically decrease clearance to the > back of the wing. > > > Steve B > Firefly 007/Floats > do not archive ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:52:39 AM PST US From: "Vic Peters" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Lexan Plexus- Thats what happens when you P on a Lexus Vic Do not archive ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:55:02 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Prop clearence on Kolb Mark 111 extra From: "Frankd" Thanks for the reply's everyone. The Prince Aircraft prop came with the engine when I got it. It is listed in the Aircraft Spruce Catalogue and has unique drooping tips built in that is designed to enhance performance.. Its a wood core with glass finish and that is why I did not know about flex forward under power. Just to be clear, the clearance I measured is from the prop tip forward to the fuselage cage. I have seen prop flex on Cessna's when in power run-up but it's minimal. Since I don't have my wings attached yet, I did not even think about clearance from the training edge.. It sounds like there is enough clearance even if the prop does flex some, from your guys experience. I will continue as is. On a related note, what is the ideal incidence of the engine thrust line in relation to the wing bottom? Should it be the same incidence? I got an engine mount from Titan aircraft to fit the Jabiru to the MkIII Extra and would like to verify incidence before I bolt it all down finally. Now at the stage of spraying silver on all the fabric so aiming to have it all ready for flight THIS year... thats as close as I will aim for.. Good feedback.. Thanks f Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173455#173455 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:04:06 AM PST US From: Rogerde5@aol.com Subject: Kolb-List: Please remove me from the the kolb list. I would like to request my email address be removed from the Kolb list as I no longer fly a Kolb aircraft..Thank you very much for the great information of builders and flyers that the Kolb list has provided me over the years.. Thank you. Roger **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15&ncid=aolhom00030000000001) ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:20:04 AM PST US From: "boyd" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Kolb Fly-In at Monument Valley Yes yes yes yes yes !!!!!!! We were the trail blazers on July 03, 2001 Right-click here to download pictures. To help protect your privacy, Outlook prevented automatic download of this picture from the Internet. But don't take my word for it. Look it up in the list's archives. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have looked in the archives... that is why I mentioned "Now I will admit that others had flown MV before that time..."... My thoughts were that as a "KOLB FLY IN" with an invitation to ALL, it started in 2003. C U in may, we will talk about it then. Boyd ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:20:05 AM PST US From: "boyd" Subject: Kolb-List: memories at Monument Valley My biggest regret is that I haven't had a camera in my pocket at all times... like our first sitting in the restraunt eating my first Navajo taco and watching a kolb ra pilot do some exercises,, trying to taxi across the tie down cable and standing his kolb on its nose! It has brought a grin to my face just thinking about it.....he could admit to it if he wants... john W do you remember who that was? LOL Or trying to fly formation,,,, very loose formation,, and ending up all over the sky,,,, a pilot with a broken mic cord, directing formation fling with morse code clicks on the mike. Listening to the war stories, and hanger flying,,, myself and a half dozen Navaho kids holding up the wing on a Cessna while the owner changes a tire.... does anyone have a tube patching kit? I have had wonderful times. I'll see everyone in may. I will not miss it without good reason, even if I have to drive. Yes john it has been that long. Boyd. Ps. It would be nice to hear your best memories. Do not archive. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is a great flyin, one that I have had the honor and priviledge of attending since its inception in 2003. Has it really been that long? This year will be number 6. john h mkIII Labhart Field, KY ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:52:04 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Please remove me from the the kolb list. From: "planecrazzzy" OK, I'll remove you.... But first , send me 20 bucks... Gotta Fly... Mike & "Jaz" in MN -------- .. .. .. .. .. Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173467#173467 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:46:46 PM PST US From: Bob Noyer Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Please remove me from the the kolb list. Go to instructions on Kolb-List and remove yourself. regards, Bob N. FireFly 070 Old Kolb http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/ronoy/ do not archive ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:57:21 PM PST US From: william sullivan Subject: Kolb-List: Plexus Oh. Just a word to describe the word "Budweiser" showing through the paint. Thanks, Vic. do not archive Bill Sullivan FS/KX ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:13:24 PM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: Kolb-List: Test message to Matt Draille Hi Matt, This is test message to you, to see if the problem still exists. I think what happened is I recently converted to "Hotmail Live", and for some reason it doesn't send emails out correctly to the Matronics system. By reverting back to the "Hotmail Classic", I think things should be okay. Mike Welch _________________________________________________________________ In a rush? Get real-time answers with Windows Live Messenger. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_realtime_042008 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:49:35 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Test message to Matt Draille At 02:10 PM 3/29/2008 Saturday, you wrote: > >Hi Matt, > > This is test message to you, to see if the problem still exists. > > I think what happened is I recently converted to "Hotmail Live", and for some reason it doesn't >send emails out correctly to the Matronics system. > > By reverting back to the "Hotmail Classic", I think things should be okay. > >Mike Welch Hey Mike, This message looks alright. Next try a small enclosure, to make sure that gets handled correctly. Thanks for you help, Matt Dralle Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 04:55:03 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Kolb-List: Two New Lists Added to the Matronics Lineup! Dear Listers, I've added two new Email Lists to the Matronics List and Forum lineup today. These include the Rans-List and RV12-List. Please surf over to the Matronics List Subscription page and sign up for these new Lists if they are of interest to you: http://www.matronics.com/subscribe Full support on the Forums, List Browse, Archives, etc. is available. Rans-List: http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rans-List RV12-List http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV12-List Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:20:27 PM PST US From: ElleryWeld@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Prop clearence on Kolb Mark 111 extra I understand that Prince P-Tip Propeller is a good match for your application However I think you are going to need more of an extension on your prop to give you more room between the back of your Fuselage Trailing edge of wings and your prop, some of the other guys on this list was explaining they had less clearance than what you have but they was talking about clearance between the prop tip and the Boom tube not the back of there Fuselage Just trying to verify this info correctly for you Ellery in Maine do not archive In a message dated 3/29/2008 12:55:33 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, fran kd@foundrynet.com writes: --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Frankd" Thanks for the reply's everyone. The Prince Aircraft prop came with the engine when I got it. It is listed in the Aircraft Spruce Catalogue and has unique drooping tips built in that is designed to enhance performance.. Its a wood core with glass finish and that is why I did not know about flex forward under power. Just to be clear, the clearance I measured is from the prop tip forward to the fuselage cage. I have seen prop flex on Cessna's when in power run-up but it's minimal. Since I don't have my wings attached yet, I did not even think about clearance from the training edge.. It sounds like there is enough clearance even if the prop does flex some, from your guys experience. I will continue as is. On a related note, what is the ideal incidence of the engine thrust line in relation to the wing bottom? Should it be the same incidence? I got an engine mount from Titan aircraft to fit the Jabiru to the MkIII Extra and would like to verify incidence before I bolt it all down finally. Now at the stage of spraying silver on all the fabric so aiming to have it all ready for flight THIS year... thats as close as I will aim for.. Good feedback.. Thanks f Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173455#173455 **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15&ncid=aolhom00030000000001) ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 05:53:09 PM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Prop clearence on Kolb Mark 111 extra > > Just to be clear, the clearance I measured is from the prop tip forward to the fuselage cage. I have seen prop>flex on Cessna's when in power run-up but it's minimal. Since I don't have my wings attached yet, I did not even>think about clearance from the training edge.. >Frank Frank, I don't think everyone understood your reference correctly, regarding the prop clearance. I, for one, thought you were referring to the distance from the blade tip, to the boom tube. That is the usual measurement when people talk about prop clearance. If you are talking about only 2 1/2" clearance from the blades to the back of the fuselage, then, NO, I do not think you have enough clearance. Although I am very not familiar with Prince "P tip" props, and how much they flex, I think for air cavitations reasons alone, you'd want to get a prop extension. I can imagine a scenario where you may pull up into a powered climb, and flex that prop just enough to contact the back of the fuselage. It seems entirely possible to me. It may not be likely, but I think it "possible". The catastrophic results would not seem to be worth the chance, I would think. Another thing to consider is; no matter what testing and observations you do on the ground, you never can fully tell how the flexing will act in the air, under a climbing load. I believe the absolute minimum distance you need between the back of the fuselage and the front of the prop blades is at least 4", and 6" would be even better to aim for. This is definitely a subject you want to investigate, and have a proper remedy to. I'd highly recommend calling the Prince Prop company and asking to speak to their man'in'charge, and see what he says. Doesn't a prop extension seem like a good idea, in this case, knowledgable Kolb guys? Mike Welch MkIII PS. The prop flex on my Cessna 172 is probably a 3/4"...if it's that much. That's because it is solid aluminum alloy. A composite prop will flex many times what a solid aluminum one will, and they are made to do just that, namely flex. _________________________________________________________________ How well do you know your celebrity gossip? http://originals.msn.com/thebigdebate?ocid=T002MSN03N0707A ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 05:55:25 PM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Prop clearence on Kolb Mark 111 Xtra Ellery, Precisely my point. I think most people misunderstood his clearance measurement, AND he should get a prop extension for his Jabiru motor. Mike Welch ________________________________ From: ElleryWeld@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Prop clearence on Kolb Mark 111 extra I understand that Prince P-Tip Propeller is a good match for your application However I think you are going to need more of an extension on your prop to give you more room between the back of your Fuselage Trailing edge of wings and your prop, some of the other guys on this list was explaining they had less clearance than what you have but they was talking about clearance between the prop tip and the Boom tube not the back of there Fuselage Just trying to verify this info correctly for you Ellery in Maine do not archive In a message dated 3/29/2008 12:55:33 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, frankd@foundrynet.com writes: Thanks for the reply's everyone. The Prince Aircraft prop came with the engine when I got it. It is listed in the Aircraft Spruce Catalogue and has unique drooping tips built in that is designed to enhance performance.. Its a wood core with glass finish and that is why I did not know about flex forward under power. Just to be clear, the clearance I measured is from the prop tip forward to the fuselage cage. I have seen prop flex on Cessna's when in power run-up but it's minimal. Since I don't have my wings attached yet, I did not even think about clearance from the training edge.. It sounds like there is enough clearance even if the prop does flex some, from your guys experience. I will continue as is. On a related note, what is the ideal incidence of the engine thrust line in relation to the wing bottom? Should it be the same incidence? I got an engine mount from Titan aircraft to fit the Jabiru to the MkIII Extra and would like to verify incidence before I bolt it all down finally. Now at the stage of spraying silver on all the fabric so aiming to have it all ready for flight THIS year... thats as close as I will aim for.. Good feedback.. Thanks f Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173455#173455 ________________________________ Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. _________________________________________________________________ In a rush? Get real-time answers with Windows Live Messenger. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_realtime_042008 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 06:28:00 PM PST US From: WillUribe@aol.com Subject: Kolb-List: Naked FireStar **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15&ncid=aolhom00030000000001) ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 06:45:08 PM PST US From: WillUribe@aol.com Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Kolb Fly-In at Monument Valley Sooooo what are you saying, is it by invitation only? Regards, Will Uribe El Paso, TX FireStar II N4GU do not archive ____________________________________ From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of boyd Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 12:17 PM Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Kolb Fly-In at Monument Valley Yes yes yes yes yes !!!!!!! We were the trail blazers on July 03, 2001 But don't take my word for it. Look it up in the list's archives. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have looked in the archives.. that is why I mentioned =9CNow I will admit that others had flown MV before that time...=9D . My thoughts were that as a =9CKOLB FLY IN=9D with an invitation to ALL, it started in 2003. C U in may, we will talk about it then. Boyd **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15&ncid=aol hom00030000000001) ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 06:50:30 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Naked FireStar From: knowvne@aol.com Damn=C2- THAT UV is strong... hahaha 8-) -----Original Message----- From: WillUribe@aol.com Sent: Sat, 29 Mar 2008 9:25 pm Subject: Kolb-List: Naked FireStar Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 07:04:30 PM PST US From: gary aman Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Prop clearence on Kolb Mark 111 extra Frank, my mk-3C W2200 jabiru has more clearance than that.You may want to contact Kolb as they had a mount for Jabiru at one time .I think wing/flap clearance will be more of a concern than rear of fuselage.As best I can recall I have almost a foot of fuselage clearance.High rpm props make a lot of noise on a pusher,and my MK-3 is no exception.The 2200 is a sweet running engine. G.Aman,MK-3C Jabiru 2200,298 hrs. ----- Original Message ---- From: Frankd Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 4:43:40 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Prop clearence on Kolb Mark 111 extra Hi Guys, This may not be a Kolb question per se, but you guys might know the answer. I am mounting a Jabiru 2200 on a Kolb Mark 111 extra with a Prince Aircraft 63" prop. (P/N 419.877,5557) The clearance at the tip of the prop away from the Fuselage body near the tail tube is 2.5 inches. At normal operating RPM's , what flex should I expect at the tips of the prop? Do I have enough clearance from the aircraft body? Also, is this a good engine/prop combo? Appreciate any input. Rgds FrankD Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173340#173340 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.