---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 03/31/08: 29 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:34 AM - prop clearance (william sullivan) 2. 04:35 AM - Re: The weather's lousy again (George Myers) 3. 04:47 AM - clearance (william sullivan) 4. 05:46 AM - Re: prop clearance (ElleryWeld@aol.com) 5. 06:06 AM - prop (william sullivan) 6. 06:42 AM - Re: prop clearance (Jim Kmet) 7. 07:49 AM - Re:Clutch for clearance (knowvne@aol.com) 8. 08:48 AM - Re: Clutch for clearance (lucien) 9. 09:36 AM - Re: prop clearance (Dana Hague) 10. 12:22 PM - prop spacer (william sullivan) 11. 12:23 PM - Re: toe out on the main gear (jb92563) 12. 02:45 PM - Re: Re: toe out on the main gear (ElleryWeld@aol.com) 13. 03:15 PM - Re: prop spacer (Jim Kmet) 14. 03:20 PM - Re: Re: toe out on the main gear (John Hauck) 15. 03:37 PM - prop ext. (william sullivan) 16. 03:38 PM - Re: Re: toe out on the main gear (boyd) 17. 03:38 PM - Re: prop spacer (boyd) 18. 03:54 PM - New Videos (John Williamson) 19. 04:14 PM - Re: New Videos (John Hauck) 20. 04:21 PM - Re: Re: toe out on the main gear (Mike Welch) 21. 04:21 PM - Re: Re: toe out on the main gear (ElleryWeld@aol.com) 22. 04:34 PM - Re: Re: toe out on the main gear (John Hauck) 23. 04:44 PM - Re: Re: toe out on the main gear (John Hauck) 24. 04:55 PM - Re: Re: toe out on the main gear (Dana Hague) 25. 05:15 PM - Re: Re: toe out on the main gear (Jack B. Hart) 26. 05:18 PM - Re: Re: toe out on the main gear (Mike Welch) 27. 05:37 PM - Re: Re: toe out on the main gear (Mike Welch) 28. 08:11 PM - Re: New Videos (lucien) 29. 10:34 PM - Re: Re: toe out on the main gear (Tony Oldman) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:34:36 AM PST US From: william sullivan Subject: Kolb-List: prop clearance Ellery- I have a 2 blade Warp Drive prop bolted directly to the "B" box shaft. Engine off clearance to the torque tube is about 1 3/4". By pushing hard on the prop, I can get the blade to about 1/4" from the aileron. I will do a full power run-up later today. Remember- my wings are mounted 2 1/2" to the rear of where the original wings were. Where can I get a spacer, if necessary? I will check with a local airport to see if their mogas has alcohol. I suspect the former owner just ran pump high test, probably with alcohol. He was very casual about maintenance. He was very specific about using Pennzoil, and an MR funnel. do not archive Bill Sullivan FS/KX Windsor Locks, Ct. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:35:33 AM PST US From: "George Myers" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: The weather's lousy again Beautiful -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of possums Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2008 2:01 PM Subject: Kolb-List: The weather's lousy again But it was nice yesterday - went to the race track. You might want to turn the volume down. http://video.yahoo.com/watch/2287232/7182318 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:47:17 AM PST US From: william sullivan Subject: Kolb-List: clearance Ellery- I forgot. When I said I had about 1/4" clearance to the aileron, I meant the tapered edge of the aileron itself. I was pushing HARD! I have not run the engine past 4500 rpm yet. Jack Hart gave me a method of measuring- paper and tape. I'll see what happens. do not archive Bill Sullivan FS/KX Windsor Locks, Ct. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:46:44 AM PST US From: ElleryWeld@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: prop clearance Bill you can probably get a local machine shop to make you a spacer just give them something to go by for the bolt pattern and tell them how thick you need it , I could make you one if you was a bit closer a warp is a lot stiffer than an IVO Prop but I would move the prop back anyway to help reduce noise Ellery in Maine do not archive In a message dated 3/31/2008 6:35:17 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, williamtsullivan@att.net writes: Ellery- I have a 2 blade Warp Drive prop bolted directly to the "B" box shaft. Engine off clearance to the torque tube is about 1 3/4". By pushing hard on the prop, I can get the blade to about 1/4" from the aileron. I will do a full power run-up later today. Remember- my wings are mounted 2 1/2" to the rear of where the original wings were. Where can I get a spacer, if necessary? I will check with a local airport to see if their mogas has alcohol. I suspect the former owner just ran pump high test, probably with alcohol. He was very casual about maintenance. He was very specific about using Pennzoil, and an MR funnel. do not archive Bill Sullivan FS/KX Windsor Locks, Ct. (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15&ncid=aolhom00030000000001) ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:06:39 AM PST US From: william sullivan Subject: Kolb-List: prop Thanks, Ellery. I was just looking at Jack Hart's notes on prop cutting, if necessary. Testing will have to wait- rain today. do not archive Bill FS/KX W.L., Ct. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:42:21 AM PST US From: "Jim Kmet" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: prop clearance I just Bought a 2 & 1/2 inch prop Extension from Lockwood for my Warp Drive on a B-box, About $100 bucks, included bolts, & made things much quieter. Jim Kmet, TN, MK-3C ----- Original Message ----- From: ElleryWeld@aol.com To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 7:41 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: prop clearance Bill you can probably get a local machine shop to make you a spacer just give them something to go by for the bolt pattern and tell them how thick you need it , I could make you one if you was a bit closer a warp is a lot stiffer than an IVO Prop but I would move the prop back anyway to help reduce noise Ellery in Maine do not archive In a message dated 3/31/2008 6:35:17 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, williamtsullivan@att.net writes: Ellery- I have a 2 blade Warp Drive prop bolted directly to the "B" box shaft. Engine off clearance to the torque tube is about 1 3/4". By pushing hard on the prop, I can get the blade to about 1/4" from the aileron. I will do a full power run-up later today. Remember- my wings are mounted 2 1/2" to the rear of where the original wings were. Where can I get a spacer, if necessary? I will check with a local airport to see if their mogas has alcohol. I suspect the former owner just ran pump high test, probably with alcohol. He was very casual about maintenance. He was very specific about using Pennzoil, and an MR funnel. do not archive Bill Sullivan FS/KX Windsor Locks, Ct. ="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.co m/Navigator?Kolb-List .matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com ://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:49:39 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re:Clutch for clearance From: knowvne@aol.com Guys Wouldn a clutch do the same thing but with an added benefit? Just a thought.. Mark -----Original Message----- From: ElleryWeld@aol.com Sent: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 8:41 am Subject: Re: Kolb-List: prop clearance Bill you can probably get a local machine shop to make you a spacer just give them something=C2- to go by for the bolt pattern=C2-and tell them how thick you need it ,=C2-I could make you one if you was a bit closer=C2- a warp is a lot stiffer than an IVO Prop=C2- bu t I would move the prop back anyway to help reduce noise =C2- Ellery in Maine do not archive =C2- In a message dated 3/31/2008 6:35:17 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, williamtsullivan@att.net writes: Ellery- I have a 2 blade Warp=C2-Drive prop=C2-bolted directly to the "B" box shaft. Engine off clearance to the torque tube is about 1 3/4". By pushing hard on the prop, I can get the blade to about 1/4" from the ailer on. I will do a full power run-up later today. Remember- my wings are mounted 2 1/2" to the rear of where the original wings were. Where can I get a space r, if necessary? =C2- I will check with a local airport to see if their mogas has alcohol. I suspect the former owner just ran pump high test, probably with alcohol. He was very casual about maintenance. He was very specific about using Pennzoil, and an MR funnel. =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-do not archive =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- Bill Sullivan =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- FS/KX =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- Windsor Locks, Ct. ="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/N avigator?Kolb-List .matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com ://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:48:12 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Clutch for clearance From: "lucien" knowvne(at)aol.com wrote: > Guys Wouldn a clutch do the same thing but with an added benefit? > Just a thought.. > > > Mark > > > -- If you're thinking of the rk-400 that goes in the (2-stroke) C box, no, it doesn't change any dimensions - it replaces the rubber coupler between the drive pinion and crankshaft PTO inside the box. It does solve about 10 other problems at once while adding only 2 or 3 more, so it's a really good investment (I had on my, now Bob's, FSII).... LS -------- LS FS II Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173897#173897 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:36:48 AM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: prop clearance At 07:30 AM 3/31/2008, william sullivan wrote: >Ellery- I have a 2 blade Warp Drive prop bolted directly to the "B" box >shaft. Engine off clearance to the torque tube is about 1 3/4". By pushing >hard on the prop, I can get the blade to about 1/4" from the aileron. I >will do a full power run-up later today. If you can push it to within 1/4", I'd wait on the full power runup. Things can move around an awful lot under dynamic loading, and 1/4" is REAL close! > I will check with a local airport to see if their mogas has alcohol. I > suspect the former owner just ran pump high test, probably with alcohol. > He was very casual about maintenance. He was very specific about using > Pennzoil, and an MR funnel. If an airport sells mogas, it's probably alcohol free, since alcohol isn't allowed for the aircraft that have an STC for mogas. -Dana -- Hit any key. With what? ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:22:07 PM PST US From: william sullivan Subject: Kolb-List: prop spacer Jim- I just talked to Lockwood, and they were not sure what item it was. Warp doesn't make one. Do you have the item code, or the part numbers for the prop spacer? do not archive Bill Sullivan FS/KX 447 Windsor Locks, Ct. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:23:53 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: toe out on the main gear From: "jb92563" Here is another Opinion on toe-out (Like you need an extra hole in your head) but what the heck...information is power right?!!! I Thought that Toe-in (pidgeon toed) was used because it tends to push the wheel against the bearings, hub and helps hold the tire on if cotters or nuts come off. Also, it pushes the wheel legs closer together helping support the weight of the aircraft on the landing gear on bounces. Toe-out would cause the legs to be pulled out potentially increasing the leg bending loads. Too much of either one is bad. My common sense tells me that with the plane in the flight level attitude you want only very slight Toe-in which would probably be about neutral toe-in when the tail is on the ground. Let us know how it goes. -------- Ray Kolb UltraStar (Cuyuna UL-202) Moni MotorGlider Schreder HP-11 Glider Riverside County, CA Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173941#173941 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:45:38 PM PST US From: ElleryWeld@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: toe out on the main gear Try a toe in configuration, I have flown a champ that had it, it really likes to make things hard handling on the ground both wheels fighting with each other to see who can get the most traction tossing the plane back and forth, if your cotter pin and your bearing nuts are not in place you didn't do a good installation or inspection of your equipment the correct procedure is a toe out sorry but I have been there done that Ellery in Maine do not archive In a message dated 3/31/2008 2:24:35 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, jb92563@yahoo.com writes: --> Kolb-List message posted by: "jb92563" Here is another Opinion on toe-out (Like you need an extra hole in your head) but what the heck...information is power right?!!! I Thought that Toe-in (pidgeon toed) was used because it tends to push the wheel against the bearings, hub and helps hold the tire on if cotters or nuts come off. Also, it pushes the wheel legs closer together helping support the weight of the aircraft on the landing gear on bounces. Toe-out would cause the legs to be pulled out potentially increasing the leg bending loads. Too much of either one is bad. My common sense tells me that with the plane in the flight level attitude you want only very slight Toe-in which would probably be about neutral toe-in when the tail is on the ground. Let us know how it goes. -------- Ray Kolb UltraStar (Cuyuna UL-202) Moni MotorGlider Schreder HP-11 Glider Riverside County, CA Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173941#173941 **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15&ncid=aolhom00030000000001) ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 03:15:45 PM PST US From: "Jim Kmet" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: prop spacer Bill, the Item Code right off my invoice sez: EAIVOEXT Description: Ivo prop extension W/mounting hardeware, not for medium prop Price was $100. plus 14.00 S&H Fit perfect. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: william sullivan To: kolb list Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 2:18 PM Subject: Kolb-List: prop spacer Jim- I just talked to Lockwood, and they were not sure what item it was. Warp doesn't make one. Do you have the item code, or the part numbers for the prop spacer? do not archive Bill Sullivan FS/KX 447 Windsor Locks, Ct. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:20:20 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: toe out on the main gear Ellery/Steve B/Gang: I do not know about other airplanes, but Kolbs like a tad of toe in. How much is a tad? Not much. Toe out on a Kolb, minus the US, tends to spread the gear sequentially. The farther it rolls on pavement, the more the main gear will spread apart, increasing toe out and negative camber. It is the nature of aluminum rod landing gear legs. Unlike truss/ladder type gear legs that by nature hole the main wheels in what ever alignment they were in before the aircraft started rolling. When the brakes are applied on a Kolb, the main wheels tend to toe out because the gear legs twist. I use about 5 deg of positive camber and about 1/8" toe in. It works for me and has for many many hours in the FS and the mkIII. john h mkIII hauck's holler, alabama the correct procedure is a toe out sorry but I have been there done that Ellery in Maine ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:37:07 PM PST US From: william sullivan Subject: Kolb-List: prop ext. Thanks, Jim. I'll call them tomorrow. do not archive Bill Sullivan FS/KX Windsor Locks, Ct. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 03:38:48 PM PST US From: "boyd" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: toe out on the main gear I Thought that Toe-in (pidgeon toed) was used because it tends to push the wheel against the bearings, hub and helps hold the tire on if cotters or nuts come off. Also, it pushes the wheel legs closer together helping support the weight of the aircraft on the landing gear on bounces. Toe-out would cause the legs to be pulled out potentially increasing the leg bending loads. Too much of either one is bad. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The plans that came with my mkIIIc state: The wheels should be aligned as shown: Parallel with the centerline axis of the airplane. If you must err, err on the side of having the wheels toe out a bit. Do not have any "toe-in". Not being an engineer,,, I built as close as I could to plans. Boyd ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 03:38:49 PM PST US From: "boyd" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: prop spacer Jim- I just talked to Lockwood, and they were not sure what item it was. Warp doesn't make one. Do you have the item code, or the part numbers for the prop spacer? do not archive Bill Sullivan FS/KX 447 Windsor Locks, Ct. >>>>>>>>.. Check the aircraft spruce catalog or online store. Boyd ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 03:54:25 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: New Videos From: "John Williamson" Hi All, It's been too windy to fly so I have had to resort to looking at past flights. I posted 6 more videos to Youtube. They can be found here: http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kolbrapilot&p=r do not archive -------- John Williamson Arlington, TX Kolbra, 912ULS, 1580 hours http://home.tx.rr.com/kolbrapilot Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173987#173987 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 04:14:17 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: New Videos > http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kolbrapilot&p=r > > -------- > John Williamson John W: Well.................I'd have to say there is one set of videos that are far more breath taking than all the others: Kolb Kolbra Sunrise Flight Or...............could be a toss up with this one: Kolb Mark III Classic of John H. Wadda ya think gang? john h mkIII hauck's holler, alabama ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 04:21:07 PM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: toe out on the main gear John H., Ray, and the rest of you'ze guys, Since the Wright Bros. began the HomeBuilt craze, it has always been my understanding that (all) taildraggers require toe out, for the primary reason I already stated, namely, because the wheel that is touching the ground has a tendency to "drive out" from the centerline of the plane, thereby causing the other wheel to touch, also. Like Ellery said, "No, toe in or out doesn't have anything to do with your wheels coming off if you lose the cotter pin and wheel nuts." That is nonsense to think you angle the wheel a particular direction to help keep the wheel on!! Toe in or out has nothing to do with keeping your wheels on, it has to do with proper ground control manners. We are talking TINY amounts of angle, gentlemen! So little, that if you have a string stretched taut next to the wheel, inline with the centerline of the plane, that you couldn't tell there was any angle....either in or out. You need to place a long straightedge against the wheel, to actually see where the wheel is really pointing. On page 9, of my KOLB TWINSTAR MARK III " Plans Contents (yellow) book, it says; The wheels should be aligned as shown (straight, neither toe in or out, according to the drawing): Parallel with the centerline axis of the airplane. If you must err, err on the side of having the wheels toe out a bit. Do not have any "toe-in". I double checked my actual toe out today. It is more like 1.25" toe out in 8 feet. Here's another "mental picture" of what I have; I described my present settings to be "1.25" in 8 feet. In other words, if the right tire was rolled, it would travel 1.25" to the right, after a distance of eight feet. While this setting would be a little excessive on a car, an airplane spends most of it's time in the air. John H. If I understood your toe in description, you said you have 1/8" toe in. If you have the same MkIII OEM wheels and tires I have, then that would equate to 1/8" in 7" (the tire's radius). Converting this to my measurement equates to: 8 feet = 96 ", 96" / 7" radius = 13.7, 13.7 X 1/8" = approx. 1.75". In other words, your wheels are angled almost exactly the same as mine, except your's are angle slightly in, and mine are angled slightly out. Thanks for the discourse. You know, it may be that as long as your wheels are kept within reasonable limits, either in or out, it may not make too much difference. Could it be that Kolbs are easy ground handlers? Mike Welch ________________________________ From: jhauck@elmore.rr.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: toe out on the main gear Ellery/Steve B/Gang: I do not know about other airplanes, but Kolbs like a tad of toe in. How much is a tad? Not much. Toe out on a Kolb, minus the US, tends to spread the gear sequentially. The farther it rolls on pavement, the more the main gear will spread apart, increasing toe out and negative camber. It is the nature of aluminum rod landing gear legs. Unlike truss/ladder type gear legs that by nature hole the main wheels in what ever alignment they were in before the aircraft started rolling. When the brakes are applied on a Kolb, the main wheels tend to toe out because the gear legs twist. I use about 5 deg of positive camber and about 1/8" toe in. It works for me and has for many many hours in the FS and the mkIII. john h mkIII hauck's holler, alabama the correct procedure is a toe out sorry but I have been there done that Ellery in Maine _________________________________________________________________ In a rush? Get real-time answers with Windows Live Messenger. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_realtime_042008 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 04:21:20 PM PST US From: ElleryWeld@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: toe out on the main gear I still like my wheels as straight as possible , just for even tire wear Ellery in Maine do not archive In a message dated 3/31/2008 5:39:19 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, by0ung@brigham.net writes: I Thought that Toe-in (pidgeon toed) was used because it tends to push the wheel against the bearings, hub and helps hold the tire on if cotters or nu ts come off. Also, it pushes the wheel legs closer together helping support the weight o f the aircraft on the landing gear on bounces. Toe-out would cause the legs to be pulled out potentially increasing the le g bending loads. Too much of either one is bad. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The plans that came with my mkIIIc state: The wheels should be aligned as shown: Parallel with the centerline axis of the airplane. If you must err, err on the side of having the wheels toe out a bit. Do not have any =9Ctoe-in=9D. Not being an engineer,,, I built as close as I could to plans. Boyd (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15&ncid=aol hom00030000000001) ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 04:34:20 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: toe out on the main gear > John H. If I understood your toe in description, you said you have 1/8" toe in. If you have the same MkIII OEM > wheels and tires I have, then that would equate to 1/8" in 7" (the tire's > radius). Converting this to my measurement > equates to: 8 feet = 96 ", 96" / 7" radius = 13.7, 13.7 X 1/8" = > approx. 1.75". > > In other words, your wheels are angled almost exactly the same as mine, > except your's are angle slightly in, and mine are angled slightly out. > > Thanks for the discourse. You know, it may be that as long as your > wheels are kept within reasonable limits, either in or out, it may not > make too much difference. Could it be that Kolbs are easy ground > handlers? > > Mike Welch ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 04:44:54 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: toe out on the main gear > John H. If I understood your toe in description, you said you have 1/8" toe in. If you have the same MkIII OEM > wheels and tires I have, then that would equate to 1/8" in 7" (the tire's > radius). Converting this to my measurement > equates to: 8 feet = 96 ", 96" / 7" radius = 13.7, 13.7 X 1/8" = > approx. 1.75". > > In other words, your wheels are angled almost exactly the same as mine, > except your's are angle slightly in, and mine are angled slightly out. > > Thanks for the discourse. You know, it may be that as long as your > wheels are kept within reasonable limits, either in or out, it may not > make too much difference. Could it be that Kolbs are easy ground > handlers? > > Mike Welch Mike W: Maybe reread my previous msg on how and why I set up my main gear the way I do. Sometimes I think we need to forget all the knowledge we have of why other aircraft do what they do and focus on what we are building and flying. Kolbs don't always agree with all those other tail draggers out there. I'll repeat myself. A tad of toe in and 5 deg of positive camber work great for me and my mkIII. I have never worn/scrubbed the tread off a tire on my FS or mkIII. Negative camber is progressive and most likely will scrub your tires. Aluminum gear legs on Kolbs are quite flexible, not only in bending, but also in twist. Your main gear almost have a mind of their own. I have used heat treated 4130 for gear legs on my FS and mkIII since 1986. I use them because they work much better for me than aluminum rod. john h mkIII ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 04:55:01 PM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: toe out on the main gear Hmmm. From my experience with R/C taildraggers, I've found that any toe-out made the plane quite squirrelly on the ground and prone to ground looping. Picture this: Wheels toe out. Plane is slightly yawed to the right, by an amount (for sake of discussion) equal to the toe-out. This results in the left wheel tracking exactly straight, and the right wheel scrubbing. The scrubbing results in greater drag on that side, so the plane yaws even more to the right, etc. Toe-in, OTOH, would be self correcting. Additionally, any braking flexes the gear back, which would make any toe-out even worse, but would correct toe-in. I would shoot for perfectly straight, but err on the side of toe-in. -Dana -- Democracy is three wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for lunch. ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 05:15:55 PM PST US From: "Jack B. Hart" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: toe out on the main gear Think about what you want your aircraft react during gusty cross wind landing. Assume you are side slipping with the up wind wing down and some rudder to keep aligned with the center line during final approach and you are going to stick the upwind wheel. If you have toe out, the wheel touch will cause yaw up wind. If you have toe in, the wheel touch will cause yaw down wind. If you have zero toe in, the wheel touch will not influence yaw. With a CG that is behind the main gear, which situation are you the most comfortable? It is important to have a little positive camber. Also, check and set your camber and toe in at or close to gross weight for best results. Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 05:18:22 PM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: toe out on the main gear John, Regarding my present gear legs, they are steel. Remember all the questions I had about a month ago. Well, since then I built my new ones. They are 1 3/8" chromoly 4130. I built them to have 3.5 degrees positive camber. I did not like the looks of 5 degrees positve camber, so I chose to aim for a little less. I planned on 4 degrees, but after it was all said and done, I ended up with 3.5. I am happy with that. Clearly they tilt out a little at the tops, but not a whole lot, and this 1 3/8" x .0120 tubing is some tough stuff! While your experience may prefer slight toe in, I was going by the Kolb Construction book that says straight, or, if anything, slight toe out. I also agree that with the tiny amount of toe we have, either in or out, neither will will scrub your tires. It just not that much off from straight! Mike Welch MkIII steel gear _________________________________________________________________ How well do you know your celebrity gossip? http://originals.msn.com/thebigdebate?ocid=T002MSN03N0707A ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 05:37:01 PM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: toe out on the main gear > > Toe-in, OTOH, would be self correcting. Additionally, any braking flexes > the gear back, which would make any toe-out even worse, but would correct > toe-in. > > I would shoot for perfectly straight, but err on the side of toe-in. > > -Dana Dana, While doing a little research, about the time I posed this question to the group, it appears that on RC models you do indeed set for toe in. For the reasons you stated, you are correct. RC models should be set for slight toe in. What is becoming apparent to me is that slight toe in, to slight toe out, is not going to make a huge difference. I think I will just call it good, and leave them with 3.5 degrees positive camber, and 1 degrees toe out. Looks good, and should work just fine! One thing I am fairly curious about, though, is why there are so few Kolbs with wheel pants. I am in the middle of fabricating the mounts for my fiberglass wheel pants. I've just about completed installing one, and it should be 1/3 the time to do the second one. Most of the time spent on the first one was trying to see what would work. The second one is just a matter of making a mirror image of some parts. So, can you answer this one for me? Why don't more guys install wheel pants. Mine will be so solidly mounted, that I don't think landing on grass has anyhing to do with it. I'm curious......?? Mike W _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live Hotmail is giving away Zunes. http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/ZuneADay/?locale=en-US&ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Mobile_Zune_V3 ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 08:11:05 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: New Videos From: "lucien" John Hauck wrote: > > http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kolbrapilot&p=r > > > > -------- > > John Williamson > > > > > > > > John W: > > Well.................I'd have to say there is one set of videos that are far > more breath taking than all the others: > > Kolb Kolbra Sunrise Flight > > Or...............could be a toss up with this one: > > Kolb Mark III Classic of John H. > > Wadda ya think gang? > > john h > mkIII > hauck's holler, alabama Those are good, but I'd have to say my favorite is The Kolbra Goes To Breakfast.... Not just because the view is from the back seat of a titan ;), but also it's the best view of the kolbra from the outside as it flies through the air.... LS -------- LS FS II Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174058#174058 ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 10:34:20 PM PST US From: "Tony Oldman" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: toe out on the main gear My MK111 has wheel pants and looks great. They have never been a problem on grass strips. I have used it in some pretty long grass and apart from picking up a few stalks they just part the grass on thay through. Tony From Down under ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Welch" Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 1:33 PM Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: toe out on the main gear > > >> >> Toe-in, OTOH, would be self correcting. Additionally, any braking flexes >> the gear back, which would make any toe-out even worse, but would correct >> toe-in. >> >> I would shoot for perfectly straight, but err on the side of toe-in. >> >> -Dana > > > Dana, > > While doing a little research, about the time I posed this question to > the group, it appears that on RC models > you do indeed set for toe in. For the reasons you stated, you are > correct. RC models should be set for slight toe in. > > What is becoming apparent to me is that slight toe in, to slight toe > out, is not going to make a huge difference. > I think I will just call it good, and leave them with 3.5 degrees positive > camber, and 1 degrees toe out. Looks good, and should work just fine! > > One thing I am fairly curious about, though, is why there are so few > Kolbs with wheel pants. I am in the middle of > fabricating the mounts for my fiberglass wheel pants. I've just about > completed installing one, and it should be 1/3 the time to do the second > one. Most of the time spent on the first one was trying to see what would > work. The second one is just a matter of making a mirror image of some > parts. > > So, can you answer this one for me? Why don't more guys install wheel > pants. Mine will be so solidly mounted, that I don't think landing on > grass has anyhing to do with it. I'm curious......?? > > Mike W > _________________________________________________________________ > Windows Live Hotmail is giving away Zunes. > http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/ZuneADay/?locale=en-US&ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Mobile_Zune_V3 > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.