Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:57 AM - droop tips (william sullivan)
2. 06:21 AM - EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? (cristalclear13)
3. 06:28 AM - Re: droop tips (John Hauck)
4. 07:34 AM - Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? (olendorf)
5. 07:47 AM - Check out Does Gas Go Bad? (WillUribe@aol.com)
6. 08:12 AM - Re: Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? (Mike Welch)
7. 08:23 AM - Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? (HShack@aol.com)
8. 08:24 AM - UltraStar Engine tuning (jb92563)
9. 08:32 AM - Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? (George Myers)
10. 08:39 AM - Re: prop clearance (Kirby, Dennis CTR USAF AFMC MDA/AL)
11. 08:39 AM - Re: UltraStar Engine tuning (herb)
12. 08:50 AM - Re: Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? (John Hauck)
13. 09:09 AM - Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? (cristalclear13)
14. 09:34 AM - Re: Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? (John Hauck)
15. 09:37 AM - Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? (chris davis)
16. 09:41 AM - droop tips (william sullivan)
17. 09:41 AM - gas (william sullivan)
18. 09:49 AM - Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? (gary aman)
19. 10:04 AM - Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? (cristalclear13)
20. 10:07 AM - Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? (Dana Hague)
21. 10:08 AM - Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? (olendorf)
22. 10:16 AM - Re: Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? (John Hauck)
23. 10:20 AM - Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? (cristalclear13)
24. 10:29 AM - Re: Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? (Mike Welch)
25. 10:38 AM - Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? (olendorf)
26. 10:40 AM - Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? (cristalclear13)
27. 11:04 AM - Re: Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? (John Hauck)
28. 11:14 AM - Re: UltraStar Engine tuning (jb92563)
29. 11:18 AM - Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? (JetPilot)
30. 11:26 AM - Re: droop tips (JetPilot)
31. 11:41 AM - Re: Re: droop tips (N27SB@aol.com)
32. 12:02 PM - Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? (cristalclear13)
33. 12:34 PM - Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
34. 12:42 PM - Re: Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? (Jack B. Hart)
35. 12:43 PM - Re: Re: droop tips (John Hauck)
36. 12:44 PM - Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? (cristalclear13)
37. 12:53 PM - Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? (John Hauck)
38. 01:14 PM - Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? (possums)
39. 01:46 PM - Re: Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? (Dana Hague)
40. 01:58 PM - Sun & Fun & $$ (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
41. 02:02 PM - Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? (lucien)
42. 02:18 PM - Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? (lucien)
43. 02:19 PM - Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? (lucien)
44. 02:25 PM - avgas vs mogas (Dana Hague)
45. 02:55 PM - Re: avgas vs mogas (possums)
46. 03:10 PM - Re: Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? (gary aman)
47. 03:37 PM - SUN & FUN (greg@skyelink.com)
48. 03:59 PM - clipped wings (william sullivan)
49. 04:52 PM - 2 vs 4 -strokes (knowvne@aol.com)
50. 05:25 PM - Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? (Tony Oldman)
51. 05:30 PM - Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? (robert bean)
52. 05:31 PM - Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? (possums)
53. 05:37 PM - Re: droop tips (JetPilot)
54. 05:45 PM - Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? (JetPilot)
55. 06:02 PM - Re: Re: droop tips (John Hauck)
56. 06:07 PM - Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? (possums)
57. 07:01 PM - Re: Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? (possums)
58. 07:06 PM - possums (william sullivan)
59. 07:25 PM - Re: toe out on the main gear (ronlee)
60. 07:57 PM - Re: Re: toe out on the main gear (possums)
61. 08:20 PM - Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landing (cristalclear13)
62. 08:32 PM - Wheel pants (Mike Welch)
63. 09:47 PM - Re: Check out Does Gas Go Bad? (Jim Baker)
64. 11:03 PM - Official Kolb-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
65. 11:04 PM - Official Kolb-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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John H.- I see that you are back at your own computer. What happened on the testing
of the droop tips? I saw some very spectacular stall and landing figures-
quite low, for the size of the aircraft, and without VG's. How about low speed
turns, crosswind handling, and T/O speeds? In your opinion, which did you like
better? How were they attached? How much did they extend the wingspan?
Bill Sullivan
FS/KX
Windsor Locks, Ct.
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| Subject: | EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? |
I finally found time to start reading my EAA Sport Pilot magazine and read Rick's
article. He states, "I kept remembering forced landings from my Weedhopper
days and decided I just couldn't do that two-stroke thing again."
As some of you might remember, I bought a Mark II with a Rotax 503 DCSI. I'm hoping
to be able to start flying it by the end of this month. Is Rick telling
me that I should expect a lot of forced landings (or even one)? I know we should
ALWAYS be prepared for forced landings, but I'm wondering does this really
happen A LOT?
Are there any Kolbers out there with two-stroke engines with lots of hours that
have NOT had to have a forced landing?
--------
Cristal
Mark II Twinstar
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174114#174114
Message 3
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Morning Bill:
What happened to droop tip test? I completed the test.
Again, during the 40 hour flight test of the MKIIIx, I saw no
requirement for VG's. The airplane was stalling at 30 mph IAS at 3,000
feet ASL without VG's or droop tips, and 26 mph IAS with them.
The X turns well at low speeds as do all models of Kolb aircraft. The
longer wing panel, 13 feet of full rib wing plus about a foot of droop
tip, produces a lot of lift. As a comparison, the FSII wing panel with
two feet ofbow tip is 13 feet total. The aircraft is a floater. The
droop tips seemed to enhance the performance of the ailerons. I wanted
to do some more experimenting with the location of the aileron Morse
cable attach points on the rear aileron bell crank, but ran out of time.
Without droop tips I had flown the X with the cables moved inboard a
full inch at 1/2 inch increments. At the inmost points the X felt like
it had hydraulic assist. I could roll the X briskly at 80 mph.
However, at 40 mph I was running out of lateral stick travel. Did not
have enough time to relocate the cables and fly it with the droop tips.
May or may not have had enough aileron authority. When we get a chance,
we'll do some more testing on cable location. Hopefully, I can get to
London during decent wind and weather conditions.
I flew the entire test period with cross winds, left and right, 5 to 15
mph most of the time. At times, much higher. When the winds got to
"much higher", I took a nap. Like all the Kolb models I have flown, it
does quite well in cross winds.
I do not know what the take off speeds are. I let the airplane fly when
it is ready, which is quite sudden. I don't recall what airspeed the
aircraft broke in ground effect because I was usually busy with the
turbulence.
We did not have time to take measurements on takeoff and landing
distances. If we did, the wind and turbulence would have prevented us
from getting any real figures. If you have flown an airplane at Labhart
Field you will understand how busy the pilot gets trying to land there
in turbulence. Just a guess, 40 mph IAS, remembering that the more
horse power one applies to a high mounted pusher configuration, the
longer it takes to get off the ground, in most cases.
I landed at London and Williamsburg, KY, the two paved airstrips in my
test area. The X was nice and solid. Handled well on pavement. I did
get Travis to order me some heavy compression tail wheel springs which
worked 100% better than the soft springs they have been sending out with
the kits. In the future, compression springs will be included in kits
for the MKIII.
I like flying the X with the droop tips better for obvious reasons. It
performs better. Ailerons seems to work a little better.
Droop tips are attached with screws.
Extended the wing span about two feet, a foot on each wing panel.
Hope that answered all your questions?
No...........I don't recommend droop tips on FS's, but it is your bird
and your call.
john h
mkIII
hauck's holler, alabama
What happened on the testing of the droop tips? I saw some very
spectacular stall and landing figures- quite low, for the size of the
aircraft, and without VG's. How about low speed turns, crosswind
handling, and T/O speeds? In your opinion, which did you like better?
How were they attached? How much did they extend the wingspan?
Bill Sullivan
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| Subject: | Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? |
I've had 3 in about 400 hours. All of them were due to electrical / ignition problems.
Yes, you should expect one each time you fly and be happy if it doesn't happen.
--------
Scott Olendorf
Original Firestar, Rotax 447, Powerfin prop
Schenectady, NY
http://KolbFirestar.googlepages.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174127#174127
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| Subject: | Check out Does Gas Go Bad? |
_Click here: Does Gas Go Bad? - AOL Autos_
(http://autos.aol.com/article/general/v2/_a/does-gas-go-bad/20070703144909990001)
do not archive
**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
Home.
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Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? |
> I've had 3 in about 400 hours. All of them were due to electrical / ignition
problems.
>
> Yes, you should expect one each time you fly and be happy if it doesn't happen.
>
> --------
> Scott Olendorf
Scott,
Would you mind elaborating why your engine quit 3 times in 400 hours of use?
What do you mean
"due to electrical/ignition problems", and how was it the motor's fault? While
I am NOT
very fond of 2 cycle motors, I think in most cases with engine failure it is not
the engine's fault (like broken or defective parts that gives out!). Usually
you can chase the problem down to something that is the pilot's fault...like
faulty wiring, dirty gas, improper maintenance, etc. I think it is rare where
you can put ALL of the blame on the motor, just because it is a 2 stroke (and
EVERYTHING else like gas/oil, wiring, etc. was perfect)
Even when you can fault an engine for failure, you usually find things like "the
bearing weren't the proper size,
the fuel ratio was wrong due to an incorrect carb setting, a wire shorted on an
exhaust pipe, on and on..."
As I stated, I don't really care much for 2 strokes, but that is because of low
TBO times, high fuel
consumption, and a couple of other issues related to that type of engine, not because
"they just quit"
for no apparent reason.
I don't mean to sound argumentative, but why should someone EXPECT an engine
failure, provided it is
kept in "tip top" shape? I realize everyone should always be prepared for an engine
failure, that's just good
common sense, but to think a motor is so "touchy" that I should be happy if it
doesn't quit just because I went
for a flight, well, I'd change motors if that was the case.
Mike Welch
Do Not Archive
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Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? |
Y ep; 660 hrs. on a 503. Proper maint. is the key.
Howard Shackleford
FS II
SC
In a message dated 4/1/2008 9:21:52 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
cristalclearwaters@juno.com writes:
Are there any Kolbers out there with two-stroke engines with lots of hours
that have NOT had to have a forced landing?
**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
Home.
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15&ncid=aolhom00030000000001)
Message 8
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| Subject: | UltraStar Engine tuning |
I have 2 different CHT probes that are giving me different results.
I swapped probes and now the old probe is reading 420 on the formerly under 400
cylinder(Front cyl) so I can conclude its the old CHT sensor is off for some
reason(Maybe my extension has to much resistance).
My new probe from Aircraft Spruce reads as expected.
After correction(swapping back and forth) I am really getting:
CHT Front Cyl: 390
CHT Rear Cyl: 360
EGT: 1350
RPM: 6190
Still a little hot on the EGT and one cyl....perhaps too lean still.
History Note: I honed the rear cylinder and installed new piston/rings after repairing
a mild seizure. Cuyuna ULII-02
Perhaps I should hone a cross hatch into the front cylinder as well to improve
oil adhesion and cooling.
I found my Cuyuna Manual and for the elevation
and Temperature it recommends the #280 Main Jet.
The Standard was #300 it seems.
I wonder if the 280 is richer than the 300?
I suppose I should try my needle setting first though to see what effect that has
on the CHT and EGT.
I might also have to much prop since I thought max static RPM was supposed to be
about 6300-6500 so it can unload up to 6800 in the air.
Any tips on how to go about getting my numbers in line.
I think a little richer and less prop if necessary seems the way to go.
(I have a wood 2 blade Ritz prop...easy to modify)
I though during the initial full throttle I got it up to 6500 for a second so perhaps
that also indicates a lean condition as the extra fuel from idling ran
out and then stabilized at 6190.
Also read that ~1400 rpm is the recommended idle so the engine does not load up
with to much fuel during an idle power decent.
--------
Ray
Kolb UltraStar (Cuyuna UL-202)
Moni MotorGlider
Schreder HP-11 Glider
Riverside County, CA
Do Not Archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174138#174138
Message 9
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| Subject: | EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? |
I have over a thousand hours in 6 different 503's 3 different 382's and 2
cayuna (Indian word for 'falls from sky') 430D's. Not a single one of them
was new when I got it and a few were vintage and I have had more than my
share of forced landings (I taught myself to fly and to work on the little
buggers). BUT not a single one of them was due to anything breaking on the
engine in flight (most were because it's very dark in my colon OR as a guy
smarter than me said, "stupid is as stupid does"). They do require a LOT
more attention from YOU both on and off the ground.
If you consider all the factors in selecting an engine .. weight, cost,
availability of parts, access to knowledge, and simplicity, there is not a
more reliable engine anywhere than the 503 or the 582.
That being said, what do you have more of.... money or time. It will take
one or the other to keep the fan blowing.
'Jus my 'pinion
George
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-
diff-server@matronics.com] On >Behalf Of cristalclear13
>Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 8:19 AM
>To: kolb-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Kolb-List: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced
landings?
<cristalclearwaters@juno.com>
>I finally found time to start reading my EAA Sport Pilot magazine and read
Rick's article. He >states, "I kept remembering forced landings from my
Weedhopper days and decided I just couldn't >do that two-stroke thing
again."
>As some of you might remember, I bought a Mark II with a Rotax 503 DCSI.
I'm hoping to be able >to start flying it by the end of this month. Is Rick
telling me that I should expect a lot of >forced landings (or even one)? I
know we should ALWAYS be prepared for forced landings, but I'm >wondering
does this really happen A LOT?
>Are there any Kolbers out there with two-stroke engines with lots of hours
that have NOT had to >have a forced landing?
>--------
>Cristal
>Mark II Twinstar
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174114#174114
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: prop clearance |
Bill Sullivan wrote: << ... Remember- my wings are mounted 2 1/2" to the
rear of where the original wings were. >>
Bill -
I saw previously where you mentioned this.
Why do you think your wings mounted in a different-than-stock position?
This could seriously affect your longitudinal stability (pitch). Seems
like a fairly major structural modification to the cage to have moved
the wings back two-1/2 inches.
Just wondering. You might want to investigate this further, if only to
satisfy yourself that your center of lift is where it's SUPPOSED to be!
Dennis Kirby
Mark-III, 912ul
Cedar Crest, NM
do not archive
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: UltraStar Engine tuning |
Seizures normally leave some aluminum on the cylinder walls...I
always ,twice now, swab the affected areas with muratic acid to etch
away the aluminum before honing.. Herb
At 10:22 AM 4/1/2008, you wrote:
>
>I have 2 different CHT probes that are giving me different results.
>
>I swapped probes and now the old probe is reading 420 on the
>formerly under 400 cylinder(Front cyl) so I can conclude its the old
>CHT sensor is off for some reason(Maybe my extension has to much resistance).
>
>My new probe from Aircraft Spruce reads as expected.
>
>After correction(swapping back and forth) I am really getting:
>CHT Front Cyl: 390
>CHT Rear Cyl: 360
>
>EGT: 1350
>
>RPM: 6190
>
>Still a little hot on the EGT and one cyl....perhaps too lean still.
>
>History Note: I honed the rear cylinder and installed new
>piston/rings after repairing a mild seizure. Cuyuna ULII-02
>
>Perhaps I should hone a cross hatch into the front cylinder as well
>to improve oil adhesion and cooling.
>
>I found my Cuyuna Manual and for the elevation
>and Temperature it recommends the #280 Main Jet.
>
>The Standard was #300 it seems.
>
>I wonder if the 280 is richer than the 300?
>
>I suppose I should try my needle setting first though to see what
>effect that has on the CHT and EGT.
>
>I might also have to much prop since I thought max static RPM was
>supposed to be about 6300-6500 so it can unload up to 6800 in the air.
>
>Any tips on how to go about getting my numbers in line.
>
>I think a little richer and less prop if necessary seems the way to go.
>(I have a wood 2 blade Ritz prop...easy to modify)
>
>I though during the initial full throttle I got it up to 6500 for a
>second so perhaps that also indicates a lean condition as the extra
>fuel from idling ran out and then stabilized at 6190.
>
>Also read that ~1400 rpm is the recommended idle so the engine does
>not load up with to much fuel during an idle power decent.
>
>--------
>Ray
>
>Kolb UltraStar (Cuyuna UL-202)
>Moni MotorGlider
>Schreder HP-11 Glider
>Riverside County, CA
>
>Do Not Archive
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174138#174138
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? |
What do you mean
> "due to electrical/ignition problems", and how was it the motor's fault?
> > consumption, and a couple of other issues related to that type of
> engine, not because "they just quit"
> for no apparent reason.
>
> I don't mean to sound argumentative, but why should someone EXPECT an
> engine failure, provided it is
> kept in "tip top" shape? I realize everyone should always be prepared for
> an engine failure, that's just good
> common sense, but to think a motor is so "touchy" that I should be happy
> if it doesn't quit just because I went
> for a flight, well, I'd change motors if that was the case.
>
> Mike Welch
Mike W:
Two strokes have a much higher incidence of stoppages than four strokes.
Notice I said stoppages and not failures. Catastrophic failures occur
occasionally, but most times it is Murphy that gets ya, two and four stroke.
Yes, fly like it is going to quit any second for both type engines.
Don't think Scott blamed the failures on the "motor", but on
electrical/ignition problems.
Two strokes are much more susceptible to minor glitches than four strokes,
therefore the greater number of stoppages. They are extremely sensitive to
stopping when operating parameters are outside a very narrow band. Kept in
this band, OK. Get out, probably seize, or stop for some other reason.
I have no idea how much experience you have flying with a two stroke, but
those of us that evolved from the dark ages of the early 1980's became quite
proficient at forced landings. Made a damn good pilot out of us.
Many of us have migrated from two to four stokes engines for the reason you
stated, "touchy". Four stroke flying has made aviating much more relaxed
and comfortable.
Four strokes quit also. I have had two 912 stoppages in the last 2,600+
hours of flying with this type engine, 1994 and 1998. Both occasions
because of contaminated fuel. Both cases, pilot error, mine! Hopefully, I
have learned a bit from those experiences because I have not had a 912 quit
running in over 10 years and many, many hours.
Take care,
john h
mkIII
hauck's holler, alabama
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? |
John,
Why would you say contaminated fuel was pilot error? What should you have done
differently?
Thanks,
Cristal
--------
Cristal
Mark II Twinstar
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174156#174156
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? |
> Why would you say contaminated fuel was pilot error? What should you
have done differently?
> Thanks,
> Cristal
Hi Cristal:
It is my job, as the pilot, to make sure the fuel is not contaminated by
taking a fuel sample after refueling and before each first flight of the
day.
I have a "homemade" gascolator and drain to seperate water and check for the
visual condition of the fuel by draining it into a clear container. On each
of those occasions, I did not take a fuel sample. ;-( Totally, my fault.
Laziness and getting in a rush will eventually lead to a failure and/or
problem.
john h
mkIII
hauck's holler, alabama
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? |
Cristal , I probably don't fit into your request, I did have one forced landing
but that was in my first 10 hours of flying my KXP with a 503 I was messing with
the mixture on the idle circuit but I didn't leave the pattern . after that
I flew it 480 hours with out a forced landing or a rebuild , I was using Pennzoil
for air cooled ,oil premix.
They fly great with the engine out but I had 125 hours in gliders before I ever
had an engine out . The only other forced landing was with a 912s so ,treat
it right and the 503 is a dependable great engine. Chris
----- Original Message ----
From: cristalclear13 <cristalclearwaters@juno.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 1, 2008 9:18:55 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings?
I finally found time to start reading my EAA Sport Pilot magazine and read Rick's
article. He states, "I kept remembering forced landings from my Weedhopper
days and decided I just couldn't do that two-stroke thing again."
As some of you might remember, I bought a Mark II with a Rotax 503 DCSI. I'm hoping
to be able to start flying it by the end of this month. Is Rick telling
me that I should expect a lot of forced landings (or even one)? I know we should
ALWAYS be prepared for forced landings, but I'm wondering does this really
happen A LOT?
Are there any Kolbers out there with two-stroke engines with lots of hours that
have NOT had to have a forced landing?
--------
Cristal
Mark II Twinstar
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174114#174114
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Thanks, John. I am merely gathering information and satisfying curiosity. It isn't
often that someone can make such a structural change so quickly on the same
plane, and then run a comparison. When the weather gets better it will be very
interesting to see the T/O and landing distances. The only changes I am considering
on the spare wings are to possibly shorten the ailerons. The wings are
already clipped, almost down to Firefly length. Let us know when on your next
test session.
Bill Sullivan
FS/KX
Windsor Locks, Ct.
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For anyone traveling in this area, the mogas sold at airports around here does
not contain alcohol.
Bill Sullivan
FS/KX
Windsor Locks, Ct
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| Subject: | Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? |
Kolbsters,
There is a great article in the new Sport Aviation mag about risk management
.There is NO reason for a 2 stroke to be less reliable than other powerplants.If
you want to argue TBO you have a point .I believe most 2 stroke failures are
self induced,by neglect,or ignorance of the importance of PM.Members of our
club have 2 strokes with over 550 hrs on them (503) 980hrs(582) with no failures.I
believe once you understand the way they work and what the gauges are telling
you,you can have great confidence in their reliability.
----- Original Message ----
From: "HShack@aol.com" <HShack@aol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 1, 2008 7:20:48 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings?
Y ep; 660 hrs. on a 503. Proper maint. is the key.
Howard Shackleford
FS II
SC
In a message dated 4/1/2008 9:21:52 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
cristalclearwaters@juno.com writes:
Are there any Kolbers out there with two-stroke engines with lots of hours that
have NOT had to have a forced landing?
Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.
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| Subject: | Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? |
I have a "homemade" gascolator and drain to separate water and check for the
visual condition of the fuel by draining it into a clear container.
John,
I always check the fuel on the Cessna that I'm learning in, but have noticed my
Mark II has no way to do that. I'll probably be looking into what it would take
to add a gascolater.
My fuel filter is from the automotive store and I was told to change it often (I
know there's lots of forum threads on fuel filters). I was told (by a fellow
pilot who works on Rotax engines) to change my spark plugs every 25 hours, perhaps
I should change the fuel filter at the same time? How often do you change
your fuel filter?
Thanks,
Cristal
--------
Cristal
Mark II Twinstar
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174171#174171
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| Subject: | Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? |
At 09:18 AM 4/1/2008, cristalclear13 wrote:
>..."I kept remembering forced landings from my Weedhopper days and decided
>I just couldn't do that two-stroke thing again." ...I know we should
>ALWAYS be prepared for forced landings, but I'm wondering does this really
>happen A LOT?
I have had forced landings in 2-strokes and I have had forced landings in
certified 4-strokes. In every case but one the 2-stroke failures had
nothing to do with the fact that it was a 2-stroke (electrical, redrive
failure, etc.)
The one inherently 2-stroke related was a fouled plug while I was running
an excessively rich mixture during break-in.
2-strokes DO require more attention than 4-strokes. You can often ignore a
4-stroke and get away with it. Ignore a 2-stroke and you WILL have forced
landings.
-Dana
--
There is always a law against doing anything interesting.
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| Subject: | Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? |
gaman(at)att.net wrote:
> Kolbsters,
> There is a great article in the new Sport Aviation mag about risk management
.There is NO reason for a 2 stroke to be less reliable than other powerplants.If
you want to argue TBO you have a point .I believe most 2 stroke failures
are self induced,by neglect,or ignorance of the importance of PM.Members of our
club have 2 strokes with over 550 hrs on them (503) 980hrs(582) with no failures.I
believe once you understand the way they work and what the gauges are telling
you,you can have great confidence in their reliability.
>
> ---
While I agree with this statement 100% I will say that my last engine out was on
my brand new 447. The ignition module failed at 4 hours.
I have great confidence in my 447.
I will continue to fly over areas I can land in if my engine fails.
--------
Scott Olendorf
Original Firestar, Rotax 447, Powerfin prop
Schenectady, NY
http://KolbFirestar.googlepages.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174173#174173
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| Subject: | Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? |
How often do you change your fuel filter?
> Thanks,
> Cristal
Cristal:
I change the fuel filter, or clean it (I have that capability with the
filter I use) at 100 hours, or less depending on how it looks when I check
it at each oil change. Normally, 25 to 50 hours for oil changes.
john h
john h
mkIII
hauck's holler, alabama
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| Subject: | Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? |
Just out of curiosity...do you remember how you felt when you had to make your
first forced landing (especially if you weren't near any airport)? Did you get
"back on the bike and ride again" immediately? I'd like to think I would (considering
I'd lived through it!)
And what did your SPOUSE say? My husband has been pretty supportive of my learning
to fly even though he hates heights and flying and would never go up in a
small plane. But my worry is if I had a forced landing that he'd make me sell
my plane! [Crying or Very sad]
--------
Cristal
Mark II Twinstar
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174175#174175
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| Subject: | Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? |
> Laziness and getting in a rush will eventually lead to a failure and/or
> problem.
>
> john h
> mkIII
> hauck's holler, alabama
John H.,
And that is precisely my point. While I don't especially care for them, I think
most 2 stroke engines are fairly reliable....as far as engines go.
My experience, although quite limited, has shown me that the PIC (pilot in command)
is usually the blame, not an inherent deficiency with the 2 stroke design.
I greatly agree they are tempermental, and one should takes its operation
and care very seriously, but when shouldn't we, when it comes to ANY engine.
I have only experienced one engine failure. A friend and I were taking off,
in his Piper Cherokee, heading to the Golden State Fly-In. He was PIC. In doing
our preflight he accidently "cocked" open the fuel drain valve. At fuel throttle
the engine suckks in air, instead of gas. At 200 feet AGL, engine quit.
Luckily we landed on the remaining runway.
Reason for engine out, as usual, PIC.
My next experience, although I won't go into it again (I explained it last year),
was crappy gas can crud being poured into the gas tank. The crud blocked
the petcock. Reason for engine out, again, dopey PIC, using household
dirty gas can.
What I'm trying to get at is, we should always fly prepared for an engine out,
true, but we should also take engine maintenance very seriously, okay, maybe
a little more so on 2 strokes.
Mike Welch
Do not archive
_________________________________________________________________
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| Subject: | Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? |
Hey Mike,
My first 2 engine outs were due to a wire coming loose on the old style ignition
coil. The wire was inside a blob of silicone so it wasn't obvious. It killed
the engine twice and it was dozens of hours in between. After the second failure
I found the culprit. The 3rd failure was a brand new engine and the brand
new ignition box failed internally at 4 hours. Impossible to prevent that type
of failure.
None of those are 2-stroke failures. All of them would have been prevented with
dual ignition however.
I don't really mean to EXPECT it will break but take precautions so if it breaks
you don't hurt anything. I was trying to come up with a better word than expect
but it is so easy to get complacent that I wouldn't want to water it down
too much. Maybe 'anticipate' would be better?
Everything can break and everyone can forget something. I'm pretty careful with
my engine and fuel and a few months back I was pouring gas from my gas can into
my airplane and somehow a bee was caught in the funnel's plastic screen.
How the hell did that get in there? If I didn't have the screen it would be in
the tank and easily block the pickup tube.
I don't have a problem with the reliability of 2 strokes. I also want longer TBO
and better fuel burn. I'm looking for an HKS engine for my next plane but if
the TBO and fuel burn was the same for a given horsepower I would stick with
the 2 stroke.
--------
Scott Olendorf
Original Firestar, Rotax 447, Powerfin prop
Schenectady, NY
http://KolbFirestar.googlepages.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174180#174180
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| Subject: | Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? |
I change the fuel filter, or clean it (I have that capability with the
filter I use) at 100 hours, or less depending on how it looks when I check
it at each oil change. Normally, 25 to 50 hours for oil changes.
John,
"depending on how it looks"...That's where I wish I had your eyes. I took the
class and got a 100 on the test to get the LS-I rating so I can do my own inspections.
And I can read the books and manuals, but having those eyes of experience
sure would make me feel better.
Oil changes - that's one thing I don't have to worry about with the two-stroke.
:D
Thanks,
Cristal
--------
Cristal
Mark II Twinstar
Read this topic online here:
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| Subject: | Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? |
> "depending on how it looks"...That's where I wish I had your eyes.
> Cristal
Cristal:
No special abilities to look at fuel in a glass or clear container to detect
water or trash, or discoloration of fuel. If suspect, dump it and get some
fresh fuel.
john h
mkIII
hauck's holler, alabama
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| Subject: | Re: UltraStar Engine tuning |
Thanks Herb,
Thats exactly what I did thanks to your suggestion here about 6 months ago to use
the Muriatic Acid.
I had some visible aluminum stuck to the cylinder wall but barely any scratches
so i was able to simply disolve the aluminum with the acid.
Replaced the melted piston and rings, honed it smooth to fix the slight scratching,
put a x-hatch patern in with the hone and its running great now....even cooler
than the front cylinder apparently.
Worked like a charm!
--------
Ray
Kolb UltraStar (Cuyuna UL-202)
Moni MotorGlider
Schreder HP-11 Glider
Riverside County, CA
Do Not Archive
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| Subject: | Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? |
gaman(at)att.net wrote:
> Kolbsters,
>
> There is NO reason for a 2 stroke to be less reliable than other powerplants.
> ---
You are very wrong about this. Two strokes fail MUCH more often than 4 stroke
engines. There is a good reason no certified airplanes use two stroke engines,
they are just not reliable enough. You can talk theory all day long, but
the REALITY is that two stroke engines are much more prone to sudden failure
than 4 stroke engines. Reality is always more important than theory....
For those that wonder about the theory, the two stroke engine must have a near
PERFECT fuel air mixture to keep from seizing, where as the 4 stroke is much more
tolerant to errors, overheating, etc. etc. Perfection is very difficult
to maintain, and the first time something is not perfect in a two stroke, it will
stop.
Everything is going towards the increased reliability of 4 stroke engines, boats,
jet skis, dirt bikes... There is a good reason for this. I fly both a 4 stroke
on my Kolb, and also a 2 stroke on anther plane, but I am smart enough to
know that the 2 stroke engine is far more likely to quit than my 4 stroke. Only
an idiot would dismiss the facts and try to tell others that two strokes are
just as reliable as 4 strokes.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
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Clipping the wings on a a Kolb is a very bad idea. The Kolbs have so much drag,
you are not going to get any more speed out of the firestar by clipping the
wings, but you will.
Decrease Climb rate
Increase Stall Speed
Increase your approach speeds.
Decrease your short field performance.
In other words, end up with an airplane that does not perform as well, and is more
dangerous than it was in its stock form. I think you have been told this
before, and if that is what you want, go for it, you deserve what you get.
I just hope you don't give this bad advice to anyone else...
As Johns tests on the MK III clearly indicate, having more wing area improves
a Kolb a lot.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
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In a message dated 4/1/2008 1:27:35 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
orcabonita@hotmail.com writes:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "JetPilot" <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
Clipping the wings on a a Kolb is a very bad idea. The Kolbs have so much
drag, you are not going to get any more speed out of the firestar by clipping
the wings, but you will.
In other words, end up with an airplane that does not perform as well, and
is more dangerous
Mike, you forgot one thing, In gusty air or windy landings I believe that I
would rather be in a chopped wing Firestar aka Firefly. By your description
a Firefly would be an unsafe poorly performing aircraft.
steve
**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
Home.
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| Subject: | Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? |
John,
Right now I don't have any way of putting my gas in a clear or glass container
to inspect it. There's no drain hole in the tank or the line. I didn't build
the plane, I bought it this way. I suppose that's a feature I'll want to add.
In general I'm talking about hearing/seeing/feeling things that only comes with
experience. This plane didn't come with check lists, operating manual, etc.
Thanks for sharing your experiences/knowledge on this forum.
Thanks,
Cristal
--------
Cristal
Mark II Twinstar
Read this topic online here:
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| Subject: | Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? |
Cristal
I'm seeing some real good responses. The point I would like to make is that
it
isn't so much the 2 stroke that makes them less reliable as it is also the
engine systems that are used (ignition, fuel, exhaust, etc. and
pilot/builder). For example most four stroke aircraft fuel systems have
finger strainers in the fuel pick up in the tank, a gascolater, fuel sumping
capabilities, fuel filters and back up fuel pumps. It maybe the lack of
information but builders of 2 stroke airplanes generally don't build them as
safe.
The same mentality may be in play with the engine builders. If our engines
aren't as reliable then maybe we shouldn't bother spending extra money on
better systems.
Also a Rotax 503 in a MKII or MKIII has a hard life. My personal feeling is
that the 503 in general has a good reputation because it is usually used in
a Firestar where it doesn't have to work so hard to stay in the air.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIC
----- Original Message -----
From: "cristalclear13" <cristalclearwaters@juno.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 9:18 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced
landings?
> <cristalclearwaters@juno.com>
>
> I finally found time to start reading my EAA Sport Pilot magazine and read
> Rick's article. He states, "I kept remembering forced landings from my
> Weedhopper days and decided I just couldn't do that two-stroke thing
> again."
>
> As some of you might remember, I bought a Mark II with a Rotax 503 DCSI.
> I'm hoping to be able to start flying it by the end of this month. Is
> Rick telling me that I should expect a lot of forced landings (or even
> one)? I know we should ALWAYS be prepared for forced landings, but I'm
> wondering does this really happen A LOT?
>
> Are there any Kolbers out there with two-stroke engines with lots of hours
> that have NOT had to have a forced landing?
>
> --------
> Cristal
> Mark II Twinstar
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174114#174114
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced |
landings?
At 11:59 AM 4/1/08 -0700, you wrote:
>
.................
>Right now I don't have any way of putting my gas in a clear or glass container
to inspect it. There's no drain hole in the tank or the line. I didn't build
the plane, I bought it this way. I suppose that's a feature I'll want to add.
>
................
Cristal,
If you let your fuel get low in the tank, you can use a flashlight to see if
there is any water in the bottom of the tank. If you don't want to let the
fuel get this low, you can siphon or pump to empty the tank. If you keep
your tank filled, and if you do not completely empty your fuel transfer
tanks into your main tank, you reduce the possibility of accumumlating water
in the main tank.
Every Spring, I remove the main tank and completely empty it, and at the
same time I clean or dry out all my fuel transfer tanks. I may get a dime's
volume of water out of the main tank, and a quarter's volume out of each of
the transfer tanks. I have never found water in the carburetor float bowl.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
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> Clipping the wings on a a Kolb is a very bad idea. The Kolbs have so
much drag, you are not going to get any more speed out of the firestar by
clipping the wings, but you will.
>
> Decrease Climb rate
> Increase Stall Speed
> Increase your approach speeds.
> Decrease your short field performance.
>
> In other words, end up with an airplane that does not perform as well, and
> is more dangerous than it was in its stock form. I think you have been
> told this before, and if that is what you want, go for it, you deserve
> what you get. I just hope you don't give this bad advice to anyone
> else...
>
> As Johns tests on the MK III clearly indicate, having more wing area
> improves a Kolb a lot.
>
> Mike
Mike B:
Where do I begin?
I fly several Kolb models with clipped wings, both 22 feet. Before I flew
the SS, my first clip wing flight, I was a little bit, no...............a
lot leery of those short little stubby wings with their short little lift
struts. After I flew it the first time, taking off up hill and through the
trees to the north at the Oshkosh UL strip, I was hooked, like most others
that get the opportunity to fly a SS. IIRC, the first SS from Old Kolb
stalled at 40 mph clean, handled like a dream, was a real hot rod to fly,
and I liked it.
Same, same for the FF.
I will share this with you all although not many folks at Oshkosh that year
ever knew it. New airplanes, especially new models, always have a lot of
little different things going on that takes a little while to learn. My
first impression with the SS was that it was difficult to taxi, e.g., did
not want to roll. I taxiied out, took off, went flying, came back in and
landed. Still seemed like it took a lot of power to get this thing to roll.
When I got back to my parking area I asked Dennis Sounder about this
difficult taxi problem with the SS. He was not aware of it, but suggested I
check to make sure the parking brake valve was open. They had mounted it
under the seat. My first Kolb to fly with a parking brake. Wonder I did
not put it on its nose, if not for the long gear legs, and nose high three
point stance of the old SS. ;-)
Personally, Mike, I think you need to do more home work and get some more
experience in all the Kolb models before you come on board with posts of
this nature. I am not going to call or insinuate you are dumb, stupid, an
idiot, or just plain wrong, but I will say you are coming across as grossly
misinformed.
Like I have said many times, these little Kolb airplanes ain't necessarily
like all the other airplanes out there. They have their own little
peculiarities, not necessarily bad. Some are beyond description when the
engineers get ahold of them. Can't understand why their numbers and the
Kolb don't always jive. ;-)
Take care,
john h
mkIII
hauck's holler, alabama
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| Subject: | Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? |
That makes sense Rick. Thanks!
--------
Cristal
Mark II Twinstar
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174200#174200
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| Subject: | Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? |
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced
landings?
> <NeilsenRM@comcast.net>
Hi Rick N:
Got my mail this morning and my copy of what used to be Experimenter.
Enjoyed your article. Thought you got your point across great. I certainly
did not get the opinion you were beating up on two strokers.
Folks can pump themselves up about two strokes all they want to. The Feds
are not migrating to four strokes in rec vehicles because of reliability,
but polution and conservation of fuel.
I haven't heard anyone speak of that microscopic wall of oil that seperates
a two stroke from a piston seizure. Break the oil film for a split second
and there is a failure. This is one mode we do not have a problem with very
often in a stroke.
I have had main bearing failure in a brand new Cuyuna, less than 10 hours.
That'll lock up the crank shaft in a hurry.
Had wrist pin bearings come out of a 447 on the way home from Lakeland, but
made it all the way home.
Seized a 582 on my mkIII twice in 15 seconds. That wasn't hard to do at
all.
Enough on comparing the two. Ain't getting anywhere and I have a lot of
work to do to get out of here tomorrow to meet Brother Jim at Goose Pasture
on the Wacissa River between New Port and Perry, FL, tomorrow. Going to
camp there until Sunday or Monday, then hop on over to Lakeland with the 5th
wheel. Be staying in the UL Camping Area. Miss P'fer gets to stay home and
relax in the barn for the next two weeks.
Take care,
john h
mkIII
hauck's holler, alabama
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| Subject: | Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? |
At 09:18 AM 4/1/2008, you wrote:
>As some of you might remember, I bought a Mark II with a Rotax 503
>DCSI. I'm hoping to be able to start flying it by the end of this
>month. Is Rick telling me that I should expect a lot of forced
>landings (or even one)? I know we should ALWAYS be prepared for
>forced landings, but I'm wondering does this really happen A LOT?
>
>Are there any Kolbers out there with two-stroke engines with lots of
>hours that have NOT had to have a forced landing?
>
>--------
>Cristal
The one I've got has a dual carb 503 - almost 740 hours, never had
the jugs off.
Unless you count running out of gas, no problems so far (yeah - I
know about rebuild times).
I do change the plugs every 25 to 30 hours, check the compression and
rings every
60 or so hours, repaint the muffler every 100 hours & change out the
intake & exhaust gaskets,
I have changed the rubber mounts & rebuilt the carbs twice etc.
Besides, forced landings can be fun, just depends on how you look at it.
http://www.mindspring.com/~possums/
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| Subject: | Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced |
landings?
At 01:17 PM 4/1/2008, cristalclear13 wrote:
>And what did your SPOUSE say? My husband has been pretty supportive of my
>learning to fly even though he hates heights and flying and would never go
>up in a small plane. But my worry is if I had a forced landing that he'd
>make me sell my plane! [Crying or Very sad]
My wife has been WITH me through forced landings! :)
-Dana
--
"Next year in Galt's Gulch!"
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I see John H is going to be at Sun & Fun without his wings. Are any
others going to make it?
I will be there all week camping in the UL/LSA camping area. My plane is
still freezing back in Michigan where I abandoned it all winter.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIC
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| Subject: | Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? |
cristalclear13 wrote:
> I finally found time to start reading my EAA Sport Pilot magazine and read Rick's
article. He states, "I kept remembering forced landings from my Weedhopper
days and decided I just couldn't do that two-stroke thing again."
>
> As some of you might remember, I bought a Mark II with a Rotax 503 DCSI. I'm
hoping to be able to start flying it by the end of this month. Is Rick telling
me that I should expect a lot of forced landings (or even one)? I know we
should ALWAYS be prepared for forced landings, but I'm wondering does this really
happen A LOT?
>
> Are there any Kolbers out there with two-stroke engines with lots of hours that
have NOT had to have a forced landing?
Not this again - the 2-stroke myths that just will not die.......
First off, the archives of this and many other lists contain a lot of back and
forth on the 2-stroke vs 4-stroke issue.
Second, among a bunch of other things, the experience of the Weedhopper-powered-by-who-knows-what-at-12000rpm
days is NOT an applicable description of what you're
in for with the proven 2-strokes made by Rotax these days. We don't even
live in that world anymore 2-stroke-wise. So you need current experience with
2-strokes to really see what you're in for.
Third, my personal experience: I've flown the 503 for almost a decade with no problems
at all, not so much as a hesitation. The only forced landing I've ever
had was in my trike powered by a 447 (wiring problem).
That includes about 100 hours in my old FS II which I just recently sold. No problems
with the 503 that was on it. One of many...
LS
--------
LS
FS II
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174213#174213
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| Subject: | Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? |
John Hauck wrote:
> Subject: Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes
>
> I haven't heard anyone speak of that microscopic wall of oil that seperates
> a two stroke from a piston seizure. Break the oil film for a split second
> and there is a failure. This is one mode we do not have a problem with very
> often in a stroke.
>
Er, no, you certainly DO have the same hazard lurking in a 4-stroke. The same principle
applies - a thin film of oil is used in the hone marks to prevent metal-to-metal
contact in both engine types.
Overly rich running or overheating will cause the same breakdown in the 4 with
similar results.
c'mon guys, ya'll can do better than this....
LS
--------
LS
FS II
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174215#174215
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| Subject: | Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? |
[quote="lucien"]
John Hauck wrote:
> Subject: Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - Oops, that's John H. quoting someone else,
not John himself... sorry
>
--------
LS
FS II
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174216#174216
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I don't mean to reignite the whole avgas vs. mogas thing again; I just have
a practical question.
The Cuyuna (ULII-02 on my US) manual says to use "leaded regular or premium
unleaded... minimum pump octane of 88." Interestingly, it goes on to say,
"The use of aviation gasoline, or other fuels and oils, may upset carburetion."
I don't know how avgas would "upset carburetion." The previous owner ran
avgas and so do I with no problems. I'm using it mainly because it keeps
better (and smells better); storage life is important during the winter
when I'm not flying often. With warmer weather here now, though, running
car gas makes more sense... but no doubt I'll use the occasional tank of
avgas when convenient. I can't see why, but based on the warning in the
manual, should I expect it to affect the jetting?
-Dana
--
When authorities warn you of the sinfulness of sex, there is an important
lesson to be learned. Do not have sex with the authorities.
Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: avgas vs mogas |
At 05:23 PM 4/1/2008, you wrote:
>
>I don't mean to reignite the whole avgas vs. mogas thing again; I
>just have a practical question.
>
>The Cuyuna (ULII-02 on my US) manual says to use "leaded regular or
>premium unleaded... minimum pump octane of 88." Interestingly, it
>goes on to say, "The use of aviation gasoline, or other fuels and
>oils, may upset carburetion."
How old is that manual?
Back in the early 80's, we used to have to drive around to find gas stations
that still sold "leaded" gas because that's what our old Cuyuna
manual said too.
CGS Hawks & Pterodactyls back then.
Aviation gas should be fine (your engine will run cooler) - just
change your plugs more often.
Premium unleaded is fine BTW.
Message 46
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| Subject: | Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? |
Micheal,
Thank you once again for your insight and thoughtful input.What could I have been
thinking?
----- Original Message ----
From: JetPilot <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 1, 2008 10:15:11 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings?
gaman(at)att.net wrote:
> Kolbsters,
>
> There is NO reason for a 2 stroke to be less reliable than other powerplants.
> ---
You are very wrong about this. Two strokes fail MUCH more often than 4 stroke
engines. There is a good reason no certified airplanes use two stroke engines,
they are just not reliable enough. You can talk theory all day long, but
the REALITY is that two stroke engines are much more prone to sudden failure
than 4 stroke engines. Reality is always more important than theory....
For those that wonder about the theory, the two stroke engine must have a near
PERFECT fuel air mixture to keep from seizing, where as the 4 stroke is much more
tolerant to errors, overheating, etc. etc. Perfection is very difficult
to maintain, and the first time something is not perfect in a two stroke, it will
stop.
Everything is going towards the increased reliability of 4 stroke engines, boats,
jet skis, dirt bikes... There is a good reason for this. I fly both a 4 stroke
on my Kolb, and also a 2 stroke on anther plane, but I am smart enough to
know that the 2 stroke engine is far more likely to quit than my 4 stroke. Only
an idiot would dismiss the facts and try to tell others that two strokes are
just as reliable as 4 strokes.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174188#174188
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Looking forward to attending sun & fun this year for the first time
camping on site with some frinds hope to see all of you there. lets all
gang up on travis and see if we all can get hats so we can meet each
other at the show."""""""" JUST KIDDING TRAVIS"""""""""". everyone have
fun hope to see you there....
Greg m111x
virginia
Message 48
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Mike- The original wing set for my Firestar has clipped wings. In fact, it was
advertised as a Firefly. I didn't know the difference, and it wasn't until the
replacement set was being acquired that we found out it was a Firestar. (The
original set was damaged in a storm.) Right now I am just considering options,
and any and all comments are appreciated.
Bill Sullivan
FS/KX
Windsor Locks, Ct.
do not archive
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I' waiting to hear about the first HKS failure..=C2-
That thing runs as fast as a two stroke
and has a reportedly 800 hour TBO... =C2-
Also whats a HKS rebuild going to run???
Whos go the most hours so far??
Also, why do we =C2-so few BMW conversions in this country?
I have a friend whos got a 66 model that's still running strong...
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: lucien <lstavenhagen@hotmail.com>
Sent: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 5:15 pm
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced lan
dings?
John Hauck wrote:
> Subject: Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes
>
> I haven't heard anyone speak of that microscopic wall of oil that seperate
s
> a two stroke from a piston seizure. Break the oil film for a split second
> and there is a failure. This is one mode we do not have a problem with ve
ry
> often in a stroke.
>
Er, no, you certainly DO have the same hazard lurking in a 4-stroke. The sam
e
principle applies - a thin film of oil is used in the hone marks to prevent
metal-to-metal contact in both engine types.
Overly rich running or overheating will cause the same breakdown in the 4 wi
th
similar results.
c'mon guys, ya'll can do better than this....
LS
--------
LS
FS II
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174215#174215
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| Subject: | Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? |
About 400hrs behind{or infront of } 503s and no forced landings.One instance
when the fiberglass fuel tank delaminated and blocked the fuel line from the
tank but I was able to keep it going by pumping the hand primer bulb as I
was only about 5 miles from the airport and a couple of other times carb
icing got my attention when reducing power to land. The 503 has alwas
retuned me to my take offpoint
Tony
Downunder
----- Original Message -----
From: "cristalclear13" <cristalclearwaters@juno.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 2:18 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced
landings?
> <cristalclearwaters@juno.com>
>
> I finally found time to start reading my EAA Sport Pilot magazine and read
> Rick's article. He states, "I kept remembering forced landings from my
> Weedhopper days and decided I just couldn't do that two-stroke thing
> again."
>
> As some of you might remember, I bought a Mark II with a Rotax 503 DCSI.
> I'm hoping to be able to start flying it by the end of this month. Is
> Rick telling me that I should expect a lot of forced landings (or even
> one)? I know we should ALWAYS be prepared for forced landings, but I'm
> wondering does this really happen A LOT?
>
> Are there any Kolbers out there with two-stroke engines with lots of hours
> that have NOT had to have a forced landing?
>
> --------
> Cristal
> Mark II Twinstar
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174114#174114
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? |
-adding my opinion: I run the same automotive filter all summer and
would still do so up too 100 hrs.
BUT, since it sits in the basement all winter I change it no matter
how few hours it has been used.
When gas sits still in a paper filter for a while it tends to form
little films of polymer and reduces the flow.
You can verify it by blowing through it.
What's the difference between a possum and an opossum? ( When your
wife calls "Oh Possum!)
No, not delirious nirvana but time to take out the trash.
BB
do not archive
On 1, Apr 2008, at 4:07 PM, possums wrote:
>
> At 09:18 AM 4/1/2008, you wrote:
>
>> As some of you might remember, I bought a Mark II with a Rotax 503
>> DCSI. I'm hoping to be able to start flying it by the end of this
>> month. Is Rick telling me that I should expect a lot of forced
>> landings (or even one)? I know we should ALWAYS be prepared for
>> forced landings, but I'm wondering does this really happen A LOT?
>>
>> Are there any Kolbers out there with two-stroke engines with lots
>> of hours that have NOT had to have a forced landing?
>>
>> --------
>> Cristal
>
> The one I've got has a dual carb 503 - almost 740 hours, never had
> the jugs off.
> Unless you count running out of gas, no problems so far (yeah - I
> know about rebuild times).
> I do change the plugs every 25 to 30 hours, check the compression
> and rings every
> 60 or so hours, repaint the muffler every 100 hours & change out
> the intake & exhaust gaskets,
> I have changed the rubber mounts & rebuilt the carbs twice etc.
> Besides, forced landings can be fun, just depends on how you look
> at it.
>
> http://www.mindspring.com/~possums/
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? |
At 03:30 PM 4/1/2008, you wrote:
>Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM@comcast.net>
>
>Cristal
>
>I'm seeing some real good responses. The point I would like to make is that
it
>isn't so much the 2 stroke that makes them less reliable as it is also the
>engine systems that are used
I had a 1983 CGS Hawk, the third one in Georgia.
If I had bought a second one, I
could have been a =93dealer=94.
Back then, it wasn't the =93engines=94 that you
worried about. Very few people had a
plane that lasted 200 hours. Most of us crashed long before that. The
=93crashes=94
weren't fatal, mostly we just tore up the planes
=AD bumps & bruises, an occasional broken bone.
They would bring new ones up to the airport every
month, put them together (I would help) and
then proceed to crash them on their maiden flight
=AD the good ole' days, bicycle wheels & lawnmower engines.
The good news was that you could buy a used
engine =93cheap=94 usually from some else
that had a mishap in their ultralight. I actually was able to get
200 hours on my old Hawk=92s =93 Cuyuna engine=94
before it started to leak oil out of every hole, seam & gasket.
But.... I was able to buy a used (30 hours) =AD
hardly broke-in engine, plus carbs, muffler
& prop etc. for $400 to replace it.
Unfortunately, I never got the next 200 hours on that plane.
Message 53
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What I posted about wingspan on airplanes several months ago, and again agrees
with what you reported in your flight tests of the new MK III Xtra with longer
wings. Lower stall speeds, better climb, slower approach speeds etc. etc...
Am I missing something here, are you saying the short wing MK III performs better
than the new style MK III ?
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174245#174245
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| Subject: | Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? |
Possums wrote:
>
>
> Unfortunately, I never got the next 200 hours on that plane.
>
>
Why did you not get over 200 hours on that plane ? I would have killed for a
big high performance plane like that in the early 80's. My first ultralight was
a Quicksilver, weight shift with a 12 HP single cylinder Chrysler engine on
it. Plane with engine weighed just 140 pounds.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174246#174246
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> Am I missing something here, are you saying the short wing MK III performs
> better than the new style MK III ?
>
> Mike
Mike B:
Yes, I think you are missing something.
No, I did not say that.
I didn't do a comparison test between the new and old X, or the original
MKIII.
For clarification, the MKIII was designed in 1990. Kits were produced
beginning of 1991.
The MKIIIx was a modified version of the MKIII. Since the MKIIIx was first
produced, there have been several iterations of it, with the latest the long
wing, droop tip MKIIIx.
The MKIII has not changed since 1991, with the exception of modifications
that most owners and builders are not aware of.
Take care,
john h
mkIII
hauck's holler, alabama
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| Subject: | Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landings? |
At 08:27 PM 4/1/2008, you wrote:
>
>What's the difference between a possum and an opossum? ( When your
>wife calls "Oh Possum!)
>No, not delirious nirvana but time to take out the trash.
>BB
Darn "slyck", us old guys don't get no respect at all.
do not archive
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| Subject: | Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced |
landings?
At 08:42 PM 4/1/2008, you wrote:
>Possums wrote:
> > Unfortunately, I never got the next 200 hours on that plane.
>
>Why did you not get over 200 hours on that plane ? I would have
>killed for a big high performance plane like that in the early
>80's. My first ultralight was a Quicksilver, weight shift with a 12
>HP single cylinder Chrysler engine on it. Plane with engine weighed
>just 140 pounds.
>
>Mike
It's a long story, but I swapped my Hawk for a half interest in a 447
"Firestar"
and bought the other half out for $3000. This was after several
months of me watching
that little plane smoke my arse on climb outs at the field. I could
do better landings
with the nose wheel & all, but he could outclimb, out run, out turn -
out everything me on anything else.
Gotta have one of those I said!
Anyway - my poor little Hawk was sold several more times.
Unfortunately I got to watch
it go down in Hayhira Georgia, on the way to Sun & Fun one year. I
told the guy not to
push that old cyuna engine. He wouldn't listen to me on the radio. He
was going to the left of the
group & then going to the right of the group for no apparent reason.
He had to have had it wide open,
he was out running all of our Rotex's. (but just for awhile - till
his engine quit) Then he had a forced landing
(his first) - flared too high, no wind, big field. Broke the boom
tube. Didn't hurt himself.
We had CB's back then & was able to talk to him and tell him where
the nearest 7-11 was with a phone.
He said his brother would come get him (sucks for him) so the rest of
us went to Florida - those were the rules.
Yes we eat our dead - but only on long trips.
Message 58
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I still love that photo! No respect at all.
do not archive
Bill Sullivan
FS/KX
Windsor Locks, Ct.
Message 59
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| Subject: | Re: toe out on the main gear |
Regarding wheel pants.
If you like to use your tire for a seat you will lose it by installing wheel pants.
--------
Ron Lee
Tucson, Arizona
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174265#174265
Message 60
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|
| Subject: | Re: toe out on the main gear |
At 10:20 PM 4/1/2008, you wrote:
>
>Regarding wheel pants.
>If you like to use your tire for a seat you will lose it by
>installing wheel pants.
>
>--------
>Ron Lee
I like the Harbor Freight "open front" ones. So you can run over
stones & small children at airshows. Have you ever seen what a
smallish child can do to a $360 nickel edged prop .........It's nasty - $$$$.
Of course, it helps if you are a member of a national known
organization. Or if you know some one that makes vinyl stick-on letters.
I've been in places where I should not have gone (nude beeches) -
but got waves instead!
Got pictures for the "magazine" that I can't even show here.
You would not belive what some people will do to be on TV (my little camera).
Like girls gone --------------
Message 61
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|
| Subject: | Re: EAA Sport Pilot article - two-strokes and forced landing |
Possum,
Your picture reminded me of a picture my friends took of me (when I was a teenager)
one Halloween. Silly teenagers!
--------
Cristal
Mark II Twinstar
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174279#174279
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/deadclown_318.jpg
Message 62
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( Note: Subject line changed to reflect the current topic)
> Regarding wheel pants.
> If you like to use your tire for a seat you will lose it by installing wheel
pants.
>
> Ron Lee
> Tucson, Arizona
Ron,
Not installing wheel pants so I might be able to retain mobile furniture doesn't
strike me as a
good enough reason. I believe I will finish installing the other one, thank you.
Possums,
Harbor Freight selling wheel pants!!! Come on!! We both know those wheel pants
on your plane
are actually helmets that Olympic Ice Skaters wear! And you didn't think we would
catch that.
Mike Welch
1/2 of my pants on.
Do Not Archive
_________________________________________________________________
More immediate than e-mail? Get instant access with Windows Live Messenger.
http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_instantaccess_042008
Message 63
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| Subject: | Re: Check out Does Gas Go Bad? |
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (4.41)
X-SpamReason %%SpamReason%%:
As well as....
http://www.repairfaq.org/filipg/AUTO/F_Gasoline.html
Jim Baker
580.788.2779
Elmore City, OK
Message 64
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| Subject: | Official Kolb-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Kolb-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The
complete Kolb-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Kolb-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
[ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as
Courier. Proportional fonts will cause display formatting errors. ]
This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm
************************************************************
******* LIST POLICIES AND FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS *******
************************************************************
PLEASE READ. This document contains Kolb-List policies and information
for new and old subscribers. Understanding the Kolb-List policies will
minimize problems for the Administrator, and will help keep the Kolb-List
running smoothly for all of us.
******************************************
*** Quick Start Guide to List Features ***
******************************************
There are many features available on the Matronics Email Lists and each
one is described in detailed below. However, using the List Navigator
you can quickly access the complete set of features available for this
List. The List Navigator can be found at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
****************************************
*** How to Subscribe and Unsubscribe ***
****************************************
Simply go to the Web Page shown below and enter your email address and
select the List(s) that you wish to subscribe or unsubscribed from. You
may also use the handy "Find" function to determine the exact syntax of
your email address as it is subscribed to the List. Please see the
complete instructions at the top of the Web Page for more information.
The Subscribe/Unsubscribe web page is:
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Note that you will receive TWO conformation emails regarding your subsciption
process. The first verifies that your subscription/unsubsciption request
was received, and the second confirms that the process has been completed.
You should receive the first email within a few minutes of your request.
The second conformation will arrive in less than 24 hours. You cannot post
until you receive the second conformation email message.
*****************************
*** How to Post a Message ***
*****************************
Send an email message to:
kolb-list@matronics.com
Your message will be redistributed to everyone currently subscribed
to the List.
*****************************************************
*** SPAM Fighter - You Must be Subscribed to Post ***
*****************************************************
When a new post is received by the system, the From: line of the message
is checked and compared against the current subscription list. If the
email address is found, the message is passed on to the List Processor.
If the email address isn't found in the current list of subscribers, it
is dumped. This serves to very effectively thwart 99% of the SPAM that
gets posted to the Lists.
Remember, however, that the syntax of your email address is very important
with regard to the configuration of your email application such as Outlook
or Eudora. For example, the following two email addresses may be
functionally equivalent, but only one would pass the Matronics Email SPAM
test depending on which was syntax was subscribed to the given List:
smith@machine.domain.com
smith@domain.com
Either email address syntax is alright, just be sure that you configure
your email application to match *exactly* the address you've subscibed to
the List.
**************************************
*** Enclosure Support on the Lists ***
**************************************
Limited posting of enclosures such as pictures, documents, and spreadsheets
is supported on the Lists. There are a number of restrictions, and these
are detailed below. Please abide by the rules put forth regarding the
content of enclosures.
These are some of the features and limits of enclosures on the Matronics
Lists:
1) Enclosures will only be posted to the Real Time version of the Lists.
2) Enclosures will NOT be included in the Daily Digest version of the Lists.
3) Enclosures WILL BE forwarded on to the BBS Forum Web site.
4) Enclosures will NOT be appended to the Archives.
5) Enclosures will NOT be available in the List Browse feature.
6) Only the following file types and extensions will be allowed:
bmp doc dwg dxf gif jpg pdf png txt xls
All other enclosures types will be rejected and email returned to
sender. The enclosure types listed above are relatively safe from
a virus standpoint and don't pose a particularly large security risk.
7) !! All incoming enclosures will be scanned for viruses prior to posting
to the List. This is done in real time and will not slow down
the process of posting the message !!
Here are some rules for posting enclosures. Failure to abide by these rules
could result in the removal of a subscriber's email address from the Lists.
1) Pay attention to what you are posting!! Make sure that the files
you are enclosing aren't HUGE (greater that 1MB). Remember that there
are still people checking they're email via dial up modem. If you post
30MB worth of pictures, you are placing an unnecessary burden on these
folks and the rest of us, for that matter.
2) SCALE YOUR PICTURES DOWN!!! I don't want to see huge 3000 x 2000
pictures getting posted that are 3 or 4MB each. This is just
unacceptable. Use a program such as Photoshop to scale the picture
down to something on the order of 800 x 600 and try to keep the
file size to less-than 200KB, preferably much less.
Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allows
you to Right-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically
scale it down and resave it. This is a great utility - get it, use it!
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx
Look for the link "Image Resizer"
3) !! This would seem to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. Do not
post anything that would be considered offensive by your grandmother.
And you know what I'm saying; I don't want to see anything even
questionable. !!
4) REMEMBER THIS: If you post a 1MB enclosure to a List with 1000 members
subscribed, your 1MB enclosure must be resent 1000 times amounting
to 1MB X 1000 = 1 Gigabyte of network traffic!! BE CAREFUL and
BE COURTEOUS!
Also see the section below on the Matronics Photo and File Share where
you can have your files and photos posted on the Matronics web server
for long time viewing and availability.
*******************
*** Digest Mode ***
*******************
Each day, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be started.
This digest will contain the same information that is currently appended
to the archive file. It has all of the headers except for the "From:"
and "Subject:" lines removed, and includes a message separator consisting
of a line of underscores.
Each day at 23:55 PST US, the day's messages as described above will be
combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest email list.
To subscribe to the digest list, use the same subscription web form
described above, and just select the Digest version of the List.
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Note that you *can* be subscribed to both the realtime and digest versions
of the List at the same time. This is perfectly acceptable.
Now some caveats:
* Messages sent to "kolb-list-digest" will be forwarded to the standard
email list. In other words, you cannot post messages only to the
digest List.
* If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List, you
will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of
the day.
* If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to the
normal list associated with the digest. Important Note: Please change
the subject line to reflect the topic of your response! Also, please
*do not include all or most of the digest in your reply*.
****************************
*** List Digest Browser ***
****************************
An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain text
or HTML format. These archives contain the exact Digest that was posted to
the Digest email list on the given day. The Digest Archives can be found
at the following location:
http://www.matronics.com/digest
*****************************************
*** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag ***
*****************************************
At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very
small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive
it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the
message:
do not archive
Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List
email distribution as normal.
**********************************************
***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes *****
**********************************************
Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced
email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly
removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving
messages from the Kolb-List, go to the following Web page, and look
for your email address and a possible reason for your removal.
The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that
automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that
caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox
full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the
Lists you will find record of it at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed
If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel
free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice.
*******************************
*** List Member Information ***
*******************************
If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and
paper mail address in the following format:
smith@somehost.com
Joe Smith
123 Airport Lane
Tower, CA 91234-1234
098-765-1234 w
123-456-7890 h
Please forward this information to the following email address:
requests@matronics.com
I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when
there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT
be used for any other commercial purpose.
****************************************
*** Realtime Web Email List Browsing ***
****************************************
Recent messages posted to the Kolb-List are also made available on
the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are
available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject,
Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are
updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message
or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon).
You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List
Browser Interface in view-mode.
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/kolb-list
*******************************************
*** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface ***
*******************************************
A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all Kolb-List content.
content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email
distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the
List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the
respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to
the web Forums.
You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login.
If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you
will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few
minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the
main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also
enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to
Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the
Email Distribution of the List, however.
The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL:
http://forums.matronics.com
*********************************
*** Matronics Email List Wiki ***
*********************************
In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed
information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at:
http://wiki.matronics.com
The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information
for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page
where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki
permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately.
While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be
comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any
images and email it to:
wiki-support@matronics.com
One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct
a Wiki page for you.
Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the
Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that
post and convert it into a Wiki page.
*********************
*** List Archives ***
*********************
A file containing of all of the previous postings to the Kolb-List is
available on line. The archive file information is available via the
Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below:
* Kolb-List.FAQ
- Latest version of the Kolb-List Frequently Asked Question
page (this document).
* Kolb-Archive.digest.complete
- Complete file with most of the email header info removed and
page breaks inserted between messages.
* Kolb-Archive.digest.vol-??
- Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that
can more easily handled.
* Kolb-Archive.digest.complete.zip
- Same as the Kolb-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
* Kolb-Archive.digest.complete.Z
- Same as the Kolb-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in
UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
Download Via FTP
----------------
The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com
in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in
a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.)
ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives
Download Via Web
----------------
The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found
toward the bottom of the following web page:
http://www.matronics.com/archives
******************************************
*** Complete List Web Archive Browsing ***
******************************************
All messages posted to the Kolb-List are also available using the
Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages
in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed.
http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Kolb
*****************************************
**** High-Speed Archive Search Engine ***
*****************************************
You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine
to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the
List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently
available List archives.
http://www.matronics.com/search
****************************
*** File and Photo Share ***
****************************
With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures
and other data with members of the List without having to forward a
copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email
them to:
pictures@matronics.com
!! ==> Please including the following information with each submission:
1) Email Lists that they are related to.
2) Your Full Name.
3) Your Email Address.
4) One line Subject description.
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file
Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned
for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and
photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to
process them every few days.
Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be
sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new
Share is available and what the direct URL to it is.
For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main
Index Page:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
**************************
*** List Archive CDROM ***
**************************
A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains
all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives
for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search
engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it
and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make
great gifts!
http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM
**********************************
*** List Support Contributions ***
**********************************
The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members.
You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of
annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages
associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November
I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month,
I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they
are comfortable.
I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the
Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated
by companies that are themselves List members.
Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists
including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server
system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many
many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the
variety of services found here.
Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary
and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains
value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude.
Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just
subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in.
The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are
a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and
sending a personal check.
If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to
support its continued operation?
http://www.matronics.com/contributions
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Kolb-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Kolb-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Kolb-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Kolb-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Kolb-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
Message 65
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Official Kolb-List Usage Guidelines |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Kolb-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
Kolb-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Kolb-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Kolb-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Kolb-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Kolb-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Kolb-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Kolb-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
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