Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:47 AM - Re: spring break (pj.ladd)
2. 02:55 AM - Re: Firestar project (gary aman)
3. 03:34 AM - Re: Firestar project (Dana Hague)
4. 03:37 AM - Firestar project (william sullivan)
5. 04:08 AM - Re: Firestar project (Dana Hague)
6. 04:21 AM - Re: Firestar project (ElleryWeld@aol.com)
7. 04:32 AM - Re: Re: Ultrastar speeds (Jack B. Hart)
8. 04:45 AM - Firestar Project (william sullivan)
9. 04:53 AM - scale (william sullivan)
10. 05:14 AM - Re: spring break (Dan Walter)
11. 05:49 AM - Re: Firestar project (Jack B. Hart)
12. 06:07 AM - Firestar project (william sullivan)
13. 07:08 AM - Re: Firestar project (HShack@aol.com)
14. 09:44 AM - Re: Re: Ultrastar speeds (Dana Hague)
15. 12:08 PM - Re: Re: Ultrastar speeds (possums)
16. 12:48 PM - Re: Firestar project (gary aman)
17. 12:54 PM - Re: Firestar project (gary aman)
18. 01:55 PM - Firestar Project (william sullivan)
19. 01:56 PM - Re: Firestar project (Denny Rowe)
20. 02:54 PM - Firestar project (william sullivan)
21. 04:49 PM - Re: spring break (TK)
22. 05:29 PM - Re: Leading edge stresses? (Ralph B)
23. 05:39 PM - Re: Re: Leading edge stresses? (herb)
24. 06:10 PM - Re: Re: Leading edge stresses? (Dana Hague)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: spring break |
I took up my Druine Turbulent for the first time, flys great but i got
to work on the landings>>
Hi Dan,
I have always like the look of the Turbulent, pretty little plane but
out of my reach as I only have a microlight licence. The Tiger Club used
to do a demonstration at Farnborough in the old days.They used about 6
Turbies, all painted in different bright clours. They would throw rolls
of lavatory paper out of the cockpit and then try to cut the streamer
with their wings. They were pretty nifty and twisted and turned like
minnows as they chased the paper to the ground.
Ithink they were fitted with VW engines and always struck me as a bit
underpowered.
Cheers
Pat
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Firestar project |
Why is weight such a concern on your Firestar?
----- Original Message ----
From: william sullivan <williamtsullivan@att.net>
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 7:11:57 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Firestar project
Dana- I think I can do the gap seal OK, but the weight is creeping up again- no
weight allowance for brakes. I have been looking at the exhaust system and wondering
if there is a way to trim weight there. Does anyone know if it would affect
the back pressure or engine temperature if I could find or make a lighter
muffler? Also, the 447 tailpipe turns up as it leaves the muffler. Why? Noise?
It could be cut off, and save a chunk of weight. Before I transport, I will
warm it up and use a digital thermometer on various spots on the exhaust before
getting creative.
Bill Sullivan
FS/KX/447
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Firestar project |
At 05:45 AM 4/11/2008, gary aman wrote:
>Why is weight such a concern on your Firestar?
He's trying to keep it 103 compliant.
-Dana
--
Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Firestar project |
I am watching the weight on the FS because I am making sure it is a 103. My target
weight was 308. That would be 254 for the plane, dry; 24 for the BRS; and
30 for the gas. I have a good start on it, as it has the old 5 rib wings. I believe
the fuselage main tube was shortened to about Firefly length. It has minimal
instrumentation; the old skinny LG struts; sling seat; round aluminum wing
struts; pull start; Aerothane paint on the pod, tube, and tail. It has a 2
blade Warp Drive prop; no brakes, pants, or gap seal. It has a 10 gallon tank-
restricted to 5 gallons with a fill restrictor. This will be changed out pretty
quick, as the plastic is old. With the gas it weighed 306.6 on a digital scale.
I weighed it several times, and it came out the same. I also have a spare
set of wings- these are the originals, that were damaged in a storm rollover.
They are quite a bit shorter, and are 5 rib also. I think somebody made a Firefly
before they even existed. By the way, It also
has a full enclosure.
Here is a funny thing. When it is weighed at cold temperatures- in the 40's-
it is too heavy, weighing about 314. When it warms up to about 55 or 60 it is
legal. That works for me, as I have severe circulatory damage to ny hands- I
can't take exposure to cold tempts for long, even with gloves. The wings seem
to provide the necessary lift from the warm air inside. Works for me, as the
air inside is part of the plane, and it won't be flown when cold. I can't, as
it is incredibly painful. I still have some small places to trim weight- cutting
long bolts, etc., but it's close enough now.
Dana- I will try for some Saturday when I'm not too busy.
Bill Sullivan
FS/KX/447
Windsor Locks, Ct.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Firestar project |
At 06:33 AM 4/11/2008, william sullivan wrote:
> I am watching the weight on the FS because I am making sure it is a 103.
> My target weight was 308. That would be 254 for the plane, dry; 24 for
> the BRS; and 30 for the gas...
Don't even mention the gas weight as it's not included in the empty weight.
> Here is a funny thing. When it is weighed at cold temperatures- in the
> 40's- it is too heavy, weighing about 314. When it warms up to about 55
> or 60 it is legal...
Most likely temperature effects on your digital scale, which is doubtless
designed to operate at room temperature and not temperature compensated.
-Dana
--
A rolling stone .... kills worms
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Firestar project |
Bill you might even save more weight by using a wood prop verses the Warp
prop I have a 66" Tenn prop that was on my 447 powered firestar I will weigh it
and get back to you on that.
Ellery
do not archive
In a message dated 4/11/2008 6:37:40 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
williamtsullivan@att.net writes:
I am watching the weight on the FS because I am making sure it is a 103. My
target weight was 308. That would be 254 for the plane, dry; 24 for the BRS;
and 30 for the gas. I have a good start on it, as it has the old 5 rib
wings. I believe the fuselage main tube was shortened to about Firefly length.
It
has minimal instrumentation; the old skinny LG struts; sling seat; round
aluminum wing struts; pull start; Aerothane paint on the pod, tube, and tail.
It
has a 2 blade Warp Drive prop; no brakes, pants, or gap seal. It has a 10
gallon tank- restricted to 5 gallons with a fill restrictor. This will be
changed out pretty quick, as the plastic is old. With the gas it weighed 306.6
on
a digital scale. I weighed it several times, and it came out the same. I also
have a spare set of wings- these are the originals, that were damaged in a
storm rollover. They are quite a bit shorter, and are 5 rib also. I think
somebody made a Firefly before they even existed. By the way, It also has a full
enclosure.
Here is a funny thing. When it is weighed at cold temperatures- in the
40's- it is too heavy, weighing about 314. When it warms up to about 55 or 60
it
is legal. That works for me, as I have severe circulatory damage to ny
hands- I can't take exposure to cold tempts for long, even with gloves. The wings
seem to provide the necessary lift from the warm air inside. Works for me, as
the air inside is part of the plane, and it won't be flown when cold. I
can't, as it is incredibly painful. I still have some small places to trim
weight- cutting long bolts, etc., but it's close enough now.
Dana- I will try for some Saturday when I'm not too busy.
Bill Sullivan
FS/KX/447
Windsor Locks, Ct.
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
(http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016)
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Ultrastar speeds |
At 10:09 PM 4/10/08 -0400, you wrote:
>
>
>I _do_ get a cyclic humming that others have mentioned, a kind of
>mmmm...mmmmm...mmmmm, about a 1 second period, almost like a twin with a
>"beat" when the engines aren't quite synched. Could be an interplay
>between exhaust pulses and an odd prop ratio.
>
Dana
Could be it is your round wing lift struts strumming.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
Message 8
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| Subject: | Firestar Project |
Thanks, Ellery.
Dana- I am allowed 30 pounds for gas. I am going to empty the tank, and weigh
again. The gas is several months old, and the tank is full. The gas cap had
a crack, and I am concerned about any water that might have entered- or condensation.
I don't think the scale was affected, as it agreed with the spring scale.
I just didn't trust the spring scale because of it's age.
Can't do it today- rain coming.
Bill Sullivan
FS/KX/447
Message 9
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Dana- I don't think the digital scale was affected. I weighed myself on it, and
the weight was my usual dressed weight of 170.
Bill Sullivan
FS/KX/447
Windsor Locks, Ct.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: spring break |
Thanks for the response Pat. The original Turbs had a 1200 cc VW, mine
has been upgraded to a 1600 cc. It cruises at 80 mph at 2600 rpm and
seems to climb well. My hope is to eventually have a Mark III or
Firestar II with a VW engine. The Turbulent should give me the
experience with the engine to make better decisions. When I get more
flight time I will give you an update on performance and reliability.
Dan Walter
Palmyra, PA.
Ultrastar and Turbulent
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: pj.ladd
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 4:42 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: spring break
I took up my Druine Turbulent for the first time, flys great but i
got to work on the landings>>
I think they were fitted with VW engines and always struck me as a bit
underpowered.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Firestar project |
Bill,
I have been following your progress. Having met 103-7 the weight and fuel
capacity restrictions, how are you going to meet the drag and power
restrictions to ensure that it does not fly too fast?
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
Message 12
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| Subject: | Firestar project |
Jack- I am a mechanic, not an engineer, so I have no accurate way to calculate
it. There is no excess streamlining on it- no pants, and round struts. Two blade
prop, no gap seal. Best guess, a Firefly is faster. Remember- I have different
wings, and installed 2 1/2" to the rear. I'll probably have to fly and try.
Bill Sullivan
FS/KX/447
Windsor Locks, Ct.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Firestar project |
I bet you'd lose a pound or so by using a wood Tennessee prop..............
Howard Shackleford
FS II
SC
In a message dated 4/11/2008 6:37:40 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
williamtsullivan@att.net writes:
It has a 2 blade Warp Drive prop; no brakes, pants, or gap seal. It has a 10
gallon tank- restricted to 5 gallons with a fill
(http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016)
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Ultrastar speeds |
At 08:30 AM 4/11/2008, Jack B. Hart wrote:
>Could be it is your round wing lift struts strumming.
That's a thought... I'll reach back and grasp them in flight next time, see
if that's it.
I've considered fairing them at some point like you did. A buddy of mine
has a CNC hot wire cutter for R/C wings, which should make short work of
shaping the fairings. Did you actually see any speed or economy
improvements with the fairings?
-Dana
--
Duelling is legal in Paraguay as long as both parties are registered
blood donors.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Ultrastar speeds |
At 12:37 PM 4/11/2008, you wrote:
>
>At 08:30 AM 4/11/2008, Jack B. Hart wrote:
>
>
>>Could be it is your round wing lift struts strumming.
>
>That's a thought... I'll reach back and grasp them in flight next
>time, see if that's it.
You can see them - kinda a blur when they get going good & that humming noise.
>I've considered fairing them at some point like you did. A buddy of
>mine has a CNC hot wire cutter for R/C wings, which should make
>short work of shaping the fairings. Did you actually see any speed
>or economy improvements with the fairings?
You would pick up at least 4 MPH with fairings and probably more.
>-Dana
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Firestar project |
I didn't think it was possible to build a Firestar lighter than 285# minimum.I'd
be curious to know how light you are able to keep it.My pull start, 503 dcdi,w/gocart
brakes ,2nd sling seat and flooring w/Stits up through
silver and Aerothane,w/full enclosure, weighed 417# when it was licensed.
----- Original Message ----
From: Dana Hague <d-m-hague@comcast.net>
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 3:24:43 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Firestar project
At 05:45 AM 4/11/2008, gary aman wrote:
>Why is weight such a concern on your Firestar?
He's trying to keep it 103 compliant.
-Dana
--
Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Firestar project |
Bill,
Best of luck making your goal.A noble challenge.
----- Original Message ----
From: william sullivan <williamtsullivan@att.net>
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 3:33:39 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Firestar project
I am watching the weight on the FS because I am making sure it is a 103. My target
weight was 308. That would be 254 for the plane, dry; 24 for the BRS; and
30 for the gas. I have a good start on it, as it has the old 5 rib wings. I believe
the fuselage main tube was shortened to about Firefly length. It has minimal
instrumentation; the old skinny LG struts; sling seat; round aluminum wing
struts; pull start; Aerothane paint on the pod, tube, and tail. It has a 2
blade Warp Drive prop; no brakes, pants, or gap seal. It has a 10 gallon tank-
restricted to 5 gallons with a fill restrictor. This will be changed out pretty
quick, as the plastic is old. With the gas it weighed 306.6 on a digital scale.
I weighed it several times, and it came out the same. I also have a spare
set of wings- these are the originals, that were damaged in a storm rollover.
They are quite a bit shorter, and are 5 rib also. I think somebody made a Firefly
before they even existed.
By the way, It also has a full enclosure.
Here is a funny thing. When it is weighed at cold temperatures- in the 40's-
it is too heavy, weighing about 314. When it warms up to about 55 or 60 it is
legal. That works for me, as I have severe circulatory damage to ny hands- I
can't take exposure to cold tempts for long, even with gloves. The wings seem
to provide the necessary lift from the warm air inside. Works for me, as the
air inside is part of the plane, and it won't be flown when cold. I can't, as
it is incredibly painful. I still have some small places to trim weight- cutting
long bolts, etc., but it's close enough now.
Dana- I will try for some Saturday when I'm not too busy.
Bill Sullivan
FS/KX/447
Windsor Locks, Ct.
Message 18
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| Subject: | Firestar Project |
Gary- My Firestar appears to be the old "KX" version. It is a single seat, plastic
dash, and very, very sparsely built. For example, even the throttle control
lever is light- built from tubing in a "T" shape. I am certain that the fuselage
tube was built shorter than normal, as the replacement wings- not yet identified,
but light- extend past the tail when folded. The wing "sockets" for folding
go past the fuse tube end. The original wingspan was 25'4". With the replacements,
the wingspan is 27'6". There is no apparent serial number. I am giving
only the "wet" weight, as I still have a full tank of 5 gallons. I will weigh
again when I drain it.
I think the original KX was designed lighter than today's version, never mind
the wings being 5 rib. Possibly lighter or smaller or thinner wall tubing?
After I transport it, I will be able to compare side by side with Ed Harvey's
in Palmer, Mass.
Also keep in mind- I am very inexperienced, and this is the first Kolb I have
ever worked on. My observations are ONLY valid for this aircraft. I can say
with confidence that the Kolb's must be a very solidly designed plane. You should
see my collection of bent LG legs that came with it, and no other apparent
damage. Besides scuff marks on the nose cone, and we all know what that's from.
Bill Sullivan
FS/KX/447
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Firestar project |
> Bill,
>
> I have been following your progress. Having met 103-7 the weight and fuel
> capacity restrictions, how are you going to meet the drag and power
> restrictions to ensure that it does not fly too fast?
>
> Jack B. Hart FF004
> Winchester, IN
>
>
> Jack,
I would think with the longer wing, Bills Firestar will meet the math
requirments of 103. Also, a Firestar fuselage is probably a little wider
than a Fireflys?
With a 447 and also meeting the weight and fuel limits, who would bother
with the equations?
Denny Rowe
Message 20
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| Subject: | Firestar project |
Re: The Firestar with a 503. According to the Lockwood book, the 503 weighs about
12 1/2 pounds more than a 447. It's hard to be exact, but that is due to engine
weight, 2 carbs, and exhaust differences. I don't know about differences
in the gearbox.
Denny- I can't measure the fuselage width right now- looks like rain, but I
will post it first chance for anyone who cares to measure something. Also the
main tube length.
Bill Sullivan
FS/KX/447
Windsor Locks, Ct.
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: spring break |
Dan Walter wrote:
> I was glad to be home in PA as this was the first evening with good
> temps and light winds. I took up my Druine Turbulent for the first
> time, flys great but i got to work on the landings. This is kolb
> related because I sure do miss my Ultrastar, but should have time to
> get the engine overhauled soon.
>
> Dan Walter
> Palmyra, PA
> Turbulent and Ultrastar
>
> do not archive
Dan,
The gang was up at Keller's Bros. Airport last night, wish I knew you
were up also. Would have been great to fly with you again. Sounds like
the Turbulent is serving you well while you wait to get the Ultrastar
engine overhauled. Looking forward to seeing you again!
Terry - Firefly #95
Do Not Archive
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Leading edge stresses? |
The dent is only cosmetic, but there is a nice way to fix it. Order PolyFiber Super
Fill. Remove the leading edge finishing tape and apply the mixed Super Fill
over the dented area. Apply more than is needed (see pictures), then sand it
to contour with the tube. Be careful to sand in small steps using a light-grade
sandpaper. Sand a little and use a rule along the leading edge to check it.
It sands very nice. I didn't have to use any template or anything, just eyeballed
it. Reapply new finishing tape, dope, paint, and the dent is completely
gone like it was never there.
Ralph
--------
Ralph B
Original Firestar
N91493 E-AB
21 years flying it
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176288#176288
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/repaired_right_wing__588.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/after_sanding__128.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/after_application__122.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/after_application_1__412.jpg
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Leading edge stresses? |
Yep! Paint shops in General Aviation would not last a week without
bondo and higher tech fillers...:-) Herb
At 07:26 PM 4/11/2008, you wrote:
>
>The dent is only cosmetic, but there is a nice way to fix it. Order
>PolyFiber Super Fill. Remove the leading edge finishing tape and
>apply the mixed Super Fill over the dented area. Apply more than is
>needed (see pictures), then sand it to contour with the tube. Be
>careful to sand in small steps using a light-grade sandpaper. Sand a
>little and use a rule along the leading edge to check it. It sands
>very nice. I didn't have to use any template or anything, just
>eyeballed it. Reapply new finishing tape, dope, paint, and the dent
>is completely gone like it was never there.
>
>Ralph
>
>--------
>Ralph B
>Original Firestar
>N91493 E-AB
>21 years flying it
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176288#176288
>
>
>Attachments:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/repaired_right_wing__588.jpg
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/after_sanding__128.jpg
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/after_application__122.jpg
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/after_application_1__412.jpg
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Leading edge stresses? |
At 08:26 PM 4/11/2008, Ralph B wrote:
>The dent is only cosmetic, but there is a nice way to fix it. Order
>PolyFiber Super Fill. Remove the leading edge finishing tape and apply the
>mixed Super Fill over the dented area. Apply more than is needed (see
>pictures), then sand it to contour with the tube...
I'm not worried about cosmetics, only strength. Furthermore I wouldn't
patch _any_ questionable area; I want to be able to inspect it later and
make sure there's no further problems.
If it were a Quicksilver where the leading edge IS the spar, of course, the
wing would already be disassembled.
-Dana
--
It did what? Well, it's not supposed to do that.
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